I love my domi, but i would like to awake as an wynn summoner.
What do you say in terms of pro/cons?
Thank you
It's a cmopletely different class, to be honest there aren't any other classes like Domi was, but a few have bits of them. Closest to Domi is Enchanter.
Main questions you need to ask first:
What is your playstyle? Do you like buffing, tanking, nuking, debuffing, healing or damaging or what?
What did you enjoy most about Dominator?
How do you level and who do you level with? Often party? Solo? AOE?
I know summoner is totally different, i had the ol + ps sub once, and i enoyed the ps very much.
I am aware that in terms of play style, iss enchanter is the most similar, i do believe that the best iss enchanters are the ex domi ones.
As my own playstyle (i have wolf), it actually depends on how much time do i have to spend in l2, so i vary from
- party as ma with mages in dv;
- leecher/buffer/healer in archer party in swamp;
- semi dd with onslaught +wolf in giants cave;
- solo spam steel essence in dv center;
- aoe in fog, stakato, crypts in a duo party with bd.
Unfortunately i do not have a pvp setup, so i'm stuck with the "farmer" title QQ
it would be a glitch, and an exploit to keep them.
however.
i believe that if you enchant them when you keep them initially that you can keep them permanently.
because there is a lot of foggy math and crazyness when you initially awaken. or trade subs.
a lot of skills it will look like you are keeping.
those skills will go away when you relog.
i traded sws for EE sub.
i somehow managed to keep song of meditation.
does it work? i don't know.
i +1'd it and it's still there.
however.
i have yet to level that sub.
too much going on for main.
If u will awake to wynn (need SoD) u will get Arcana Lord skills and will lose all Domi skills...
My friend awakened from domi to iss for him left soul guard as i know..:)
When you switch to a different class instead of ISS you get human base skills for that class. I went Healer and got Cardi skills, if I went Wynn I would've had Arcana Lord skills.
IMO Domi/WC Make the worst ISS.
BD/SWS is best by miles as they can keep Rythm of Start and Magic and stack those with Harmonies to make AWESOME buffs and much needed m.def.
Prophet can keep old resists and OE them to give more magic resist.
Only thing OL/WC has going for them is the invincibility racial and a zerk. Keeping Soulguard is horrible for the majority of situations and pretty limited in use to oly and parties where theres another ISS. You'd miss out on Knights Harmony, which is an awesome buff that many people want.
As for summoner it's a great class for damage in PvE, I suppose it's like a spectral master but without self heals or party cubics. Basically think of it as a melee DD with some weak nukes and a mid strength AOE from summons. You can't help the party much apart from a weak mana regen once every couple of minutes and there's no self heal. Damage in PvP doesn't seem great so far, although I haven't done much on my summoner.
The orc racial skills work well on the summons too and give 17% atk speed for 60 seconds to all summons. I'd seriously think about what you want from the toon though, you said you've already got a summoner sub? You could dual class that, though it won't be a main then.
i had ol main and ps sub on a private server. i know you will say it's not the same thing, but the difference on the private servers and official is not that big, if you're on the main stream.
I was saying that the ol (not wc) will be the best iss from the playstyle point of view, not math point of view because of the playstyle, as an ol you are used to buff, debuff, heal, melee as opposed to a bd.
If you know how to play domi you will be great at playing as iss.
i had ol main and ps sub on a private server. i know you will say it's not the same thing, but the difference on the private servers and official is not that big, if you're on the main stream.
I was saying that the ol (not wc) will be the best iss from the playstyle point of view, not math point of view because of the playstyle, as an ol you are used to buff, debuff, heal, melee as opposed to a bd.
If you know how to play domi you will be great at playing as iss.
Actually I wouldn't say that at all, ISS is far more like BD playstyle than Domi.
ISS debuffs are long re-use short effect time, with the exception of the hex/power break like skills which last 5s and 10s re-use. It's nothing like the debuffing an OL used to but all too much like BD assisting with hex and meleeing.
ISS is about buff then assist the main DD to get in and spam 1-2 skills sometimes use heal or minor crowd control. Domi was a case of rarely buff, ignore DD assist, get the right position and use the right debuff at the right time with a good arsenal of skills and options then DD as needed.
P.S. I've been domi on retail for 6 years and have a BD which is now an ISS. My sub is Wynn Summoner, main is healer.
"P.S. I've been domi on retail for 6 years and have a BD which is now an ISS. My sub is Wynn Summoner, main is healer."
thanks for mentioning that, but i was allready aware of your solid and sound knowledge.
One more thing...i have seen that the wynn uses summoner points for a summon.
Since my wolf is 80 allready it would be a waste to sell it, since it's really cheap. So my question is, would the wolf consume summoner points or it is treated separately?
If i buff my summons will it get buff too?
thank you for taking your time to reply... really apreciate it
"P.S. I've been domi on retail for 6 years and have a BD which is now an ISS. My sub is Wynn Summoner, main is healer."
thanks for mentioning that, but i was allready aware
My apologies, sometimes people don't look at signatures, lol.
I'm really not sure with the wolf thing, I think you can buff your pets but I'm probably wrong as I've never tired. I'll give it a go when I get home tonight, I've got a kook and wolf knocking about somewhere.
i don't believe pets take summon points.
a level 80 wolf probably won't hold a candle to the new summons though.
i personally keep mine for riding.
because you can ride your wolf.
while you have summons out, and still be able to use all your skills.
although not as fast as the new horses, riding a wolf is great because speed boost, without loss of skill use.
Sorry, forgot about it for a while, just tested now and it's mixed.
You can summon 3 pets and a wolf.
All buffs and servitor UD work on the wolf.
Mass servitor cleanse works on the wolf.
Servitor Share (gives your summon 60% of your p.atk/p.def etc, important skill) doesn't work on wolf.
Servitor Major Heal doesn't work on the wolf.
Buffs cast on you do not buff onto the wolf, but buff on summons.
Basically you can summon it and use mass servitor buffs/skills but single target stuff doesn't work. You've got to use a different attack command too.
"Servitor Share (gives your summon 60% of your p.atk/p.def etc, important skill) doesn't work on wolf.
Servitor Major Heal doesn't work on the wolf.
Buffs cast on you do not buff onto the wolf, but buff on summons."
I was expecting that...kinda... the wolf is a summon, not a servitor.
It would have been a glitch to have the wolf behave the same as a servitor (and i would of loved it :) )
well, i finnally got to 85 and awoke as wynn summoner. so, these are my first impressions:
- regarding the wolf...not being able to heal it makes it kinda useless. i'm not using it anymore;
and, after solo pve'ing the group of 3 gem dragons in dv center and the mobs in deep loa:
- i don't have a skill (at 85 at least) to heal my self, i have to use tp,summon barrier, or exile if i am to escape alive. it is annoying because you have to take a break for a while.
- alot of buttons to push, in pve for example it can be quite tricky if you have to target a mob, use marks, tell the summons to use skills, target a summon to heal it, retarget mob for marks again, specially if it moves around; but maybe it's just me and my stupid mouse;
- regrading gear, i noticed that there is quite a big cool down for skills so i was thinking some +wit robe set or tattoos will help. I would choose also a mage weapon +acumen so that the suport buffs for summmons be faster/more powerfull. I would also need a bow for Cats, but for set, i would definitely chose robe+wit. For both weapons, definetly fire attributes since we allready have a +10 fire from racial skill.
- no pvp yet and too few parties to have an opinion on that;
- lots of fun if you are into control freak with lots of buttons to push, otherwise, choose healer (no offence).
It would be nice for other summoners to post here theire setup and the situations they are using it so please let me know what you think :)
well, i finnally got to 85 and awoke as wynn summoner. so, these are my first impressions:
- regarding the wolf...not being able to heal it makes it kinda useless. i'm not using it anymore;
and, after solo pve'ing the group of 3 gem dragons in dv center and the mobs in deep loa:
- i don't have a skill (at 85 at least) to heal my self, i have to use tp,summon barrier, or exile if i am to escape alive. it is annoying because you have to take a break for a while.
- alot of buttons to push, in pve for example it can be quite tricky if you have to target a mob, use marks, tell the summons to use skills, target a summon to heal it, retarget mob for marks again, specially if it moves around; but maybe it's just me and my stupid mouse;
- regrading gear, i noticed that there is quite a big cool down for skills so i was thinking some +wit robe set or tattoos will help. I would choose also a mage weapon +acumen so that the suport buffs for summmons be faster/more powerfull. I would also need a bow for Cats, but for set, i would definitely chose robe+wit. For both weapons, definetly fire attributes since we allready have a +10 fire from racial skill.
- no pvp yet and too few parties to have an opinion on that;
- lots of fun if you are into control freak with lots of buttons to push, otherwise, choose healer (no offence).
It would be nice for other summoners to post here theire setup and the situations they are using it so please let me know what you think :)
Yeap, you don't have a skill to heal yourself ecxept mark of void, which is a long reuse ~1k heal, but well, in the meanwhile u just let the summons tank.
Survivability has completely changed, as u stated with exile and barrier, and for me was hard to adapt, but now i kinda like it.
Cooldowns are fixed since previews updates, so maxing wit and/or casting speed is no help for that. U can have a 3% skill cooldown reduction by subclass new certifications iirc.
" in the meanwhile u just let the summons tank."
what summons :) i was talking about when all are dead and you run around waiting for the bar to dissapear.
'you don't have a skill to heal yourself ecxept mark of void, which is a long reuse ~1k heal"
"Cooldowns are fixed since previews updates, so maxing wit and/or casting speed is no help for that. U can have a 3% skill cooldown reduction by subclass new certifications iirc."
lots of fun if you are into control freak with lots of buttons to push, otherwise, choose healer (no offence).
LOL, having Healer main and Summoner Dual I find it much more demanding and complicated to play healer than summoner any day.
Summoner is easy, pets on defend and all you need to do is attack mobs and use DOTs. Healing pets is just clicking on their name and click heal, 90% of the time they self heal with VR. Can you macro pet target with %pet1?
Healer needs 100% focus to heal, remove debuffs, rez+noble, get out of the way of AOE or damage, push back or nuke to remove aggro, Celestial, recharge, good spot to use tree or will it get you aggro?
My healer bar is full of skills I need, Summoner has loads of room.
I'm not saying there isn't stuff to do on summoner but it's not exaclty a majorly complex class especially compared to healer. Summoner you tell your pets what to do, Healer your pets do what they want and you can't just summon another once they die.
"Healer needs 100% focus to heal, remove debuffs, rez+noble, get out of the way of AOE or damage, push back or nuke to remove aggro, Celestial, recharge, good spot to use tree or will it get you aggro?"
yes Ferine, you are right, but you do not have to do that AT THE SAME TIME. I wasn't saying that a healer is a buff box.
Healer is in a party, he is responsible for the health of the party (clean debuffs, heal and all the things you've mentioned), not his own health and survivebilty. He has a tank around him that can take aggro and 4 more dd's, all controlled by different players.
A summoner has to control EVERYTHING you have mentioned on HIS OWN. Sure, if you take one mob at a time it's easy, but my statement was based on the experience with the group of the 3 gem dragons in center DV.
Go there with your summon and tell me what you think :) (gear, vesper robe + am + acu + 150 fire + bound tateossian)
"Healer needs 100% focus to heal, remove debuffs, rez+noble, get out of the way of AOE or damage, push back or nuke to remove aggro, Celestial, recharge, good spot to use tree or will it get you aggro?"
yes Ferine, you are right, but you do not have to do that AT THE SAME TIME. I wasn't saying that a healer is a buff box.
Healer is in a party, he is responsible for the health of the party (clean debuffs, heal and all the things you've mentioned), not his own health and survivebilty. He has a tank around him that can take aggro and 4 more dd's, all controlled by different players.
A summoner has to control EVERYTHING you have mentioned on HIS OWN. Sure, if you take one mob at a time it's easy, but my statement was based on the experience with the group of the 3 gem dragons in center DV.
Go there with your summon and tell me what you think :) (gear, vesper robe + am + acu + 150 fire + bound tateossian)
You're talking about one class partying compared to another soloing a spot that isn't meant to be solo? Healer would be miles more difficult, near impossible to do that area solo even with ISS buffs.
Personally when I awakened my summoner I 'soloed' (3box Summoner,SE,ISS) at the top of MoS, DV at dragons and leeches, Front of DVC, Front of Hanark, Helbound Summoners/Chimeras and Fairy Settlement. Apart from DVC with the mass poison all of it was easier than any group I've been in as healer.
Summoner is a very OP Solo PVE class low level and easier than any other class to solo. You're trying to do things other classes simply couldn't do and claiming the class is hard to play.
"You're talking about one class partying compared to another soloing a spot that isn't meant to be solo? "
I said to go there with your summon, not your healer. Read again :)
"Personally when I awakened my summoner I 'soloed' (3box Summoner,SE,ISS)"
I soloed with mentor buffs, that's all.
Once again, i did not say that healer is buff box, or a fire and forget char. I said if you want your piece of mind and play cooly all the time without getting bored, choose a healer; in the parties i was, i have never seen the healer spamming skills like crazy, as a summoner does if he decides to push his limits in solo pve.
You can be summoner and play cool too, just go in a party and fire and forget.
I chose summoner so i can solo pve if i need something (noble enchancement stones for example since i have vesper) and don't find people to help me, or just for having fun pushing beyond its limits. So if you're into that, choose summoner. If not, chose something else (i don't want to mention a class anymore :) )
"You're talking about one class partying compared to another soloing a spot that isn't meant to be solo? "
I said to go there with your summon, not your healer. Read again :)
Once again, i did not say that healer is buff box, or a fire and forget char. I said if you want your piece of mind and play cooly all the time without getting bored choose a healer, in the parties i was, i have never seen the healer spamming skills like crazy, as a summoner does if he decides to push his limits in solo pve.
You can be summoner and play cool too, just go in a party and fire and forget.
I chose summoner so i cand solo pve if i need something (noble enchancement stones for example since i have vesper) and don't find people to help me, or just for having fun pushing beyond its limits. So if you're into that, choose summoner. If not, chose something else (i don't want to mention a class anymore :) )
Uhm, re-read my post please, I just said I soloed all those places on my summoner (4pc vesper, immo hvy bp, +3 ica hall 155 fire). No other class could do any of those places let alone healer. :)
I agree when you say summoner is a good class for pushing the boundary of solo PvE. I like to push the limits and find places I can grind that others can't too, hence why I've been to all those places on my summoner to test. Sadly there aren't particularly any 85+ spots better than swamps for XP/Adena and summoner isn't the best class for swamps, although they are very good.
Btw I wouldn't bother with noble for your vesper, vesper noble is gimp now since it's the only s80 set that doesn't give a 2/3/4 piece set bonus. 4 PC vesper robe and a +4 immo heavy bp is a lot more p.def than a +3 Immo set, possibly more than +3 twilight.