Can we get some clarification on what is going with the Feoh Wizard 95 unleash hell skill?
The skill is suppose to be an very high powered nuke which it is on mobs, but when used in pvp it only does like 900 damage and debuff doesn't land at all.
Is this a bug or is the skill suppose to work this way? And what about 99 skill mass unleash hell, will that have the same problem?
leveling wizard to 95+ is pointless now if their higher lvl skills doesn't work properly in pvp
Just because it is high powered on a mob, it doesn't mean it will necessarily be on a player because there are too many factors to be counted when you're attacking someone. Unless it's a non-element skill, you'll probably run into people with elemental resists, which means your nuke will do less damage. Not to count buffs and all other skills that buff protection and all that.
Just because it is high powered on a mob, it doesn't mean it will necessarily be on a player because there are too many factors to be counted when you're attacking someone. Unless it's a non-element skill, you'll probably run into people with elemental resists, which means your nuke will do less damage. Not to count buffs and all other skills that buff protection and all that.
That actually goes for any class, really.
For sure it is not b/c of element resist... I'm sure anyone who's 95+ should know the game well enough to account for all the possible in game mechanics.
Just because it is high powered on a mob, it doesn't mean it will necessarily be on a player because there are too many factors to be counted when you're attacking someone. Unless it's a non-element skill, you'll probably run into people with elemental resists, which means your nuke will do less damage. Not to count buffs and all other skills that buff protection and all that.
That actually goes for any class, really.
Are you seriously trying to educate a lvl 95 mage about the element system? Do you even have a 95 mage with Unleash Hell skill? Have you any idea what you are talking about? Yea I didn't think so, maybe you shouldn't try to sound so smart and know-it-all when you clearly don't even have the slightest clue.
Are you seriously trying to educate a lvl 95 mage about the element system? Do you even have a 95 mage with Unleash Hell skill? Have you any idea what you are talking about? Yea I didn't think so, maybe you shouldn't try to sound so smart and know-it-all when you clearly don't even have the slightest clue.
Actually I do believe I was polite. Unlike you, obviously. I'm not TRYING to educate anyone. Simply offering a possibility to a problem.
If you had paid attention to other forum posts, you'd have seen plenty of lvl 9x+ people that had no clue about game mechanics at all. The other day, someone was asking what elements to put on a dagger and being 90+. You'd think someone at 90+ would know that by then? Yeah... so instead of trying to flame me for trying to help, since YOU are such a know it all and a smart person, obviously, I'll leave it up to you to find a solution then.
Actually I do believe I was polite. Unlike you, obviously. I'm not TRYING to educate anyone. Simply offering a possibility to a problem.
If you had paid attention to other forum posts, you'd have seen plenty of lvl 9x+ people that had no clue about game mechanics at all. The other day, someone was asking what elements to put on a dagger and being 90+. You'd think someone at 90+ would know that by then? Yeah... so instead of trying to flame me for trying to help, since YOU are such a know it all and a smart person, obviously, I'll leave it up to you to find a solution then.
Good luck.
I think people are more agressive since you tried to advise someone who's understandibly upset about a level 95 skill with a reply that showed a complete lack of understanding of nukes, elements and general game mechanics.
Firstly element defense will not currently provide protection against anything but the extra damage provided by element attack. a wind nuke with a 300 weapon will do the same damage vs 320 wind resist as it would vs 32000000 wind resist.
Secondly nuke damage is worked out by a complex formula including something like skill power '*' m.atk, not skill power '+' p.atk like phys dmg. For examples sake say elemental crash, with 168 power at 94 does 3k damage in pvp then elemental destruction with 407 power at 95 will do 7.2k damage in pvp as it's 2.4x more power (not exactly right but just an example). Unleash hell is something 1212 power, to do 900 dmg in pvp it'd mean normal nukes were doing about 125 damage a nuke.
Sounds to me like they tried to nerf the dmg in pvp like they do with summoner's summons and the level 80/82 nukes but they messed it up big time.
950 dmg in pvp and debuff not landing is seriously broke, sounds like it needs a fix. I'm suprised this hasn't been mentioned before in Korea or RU though.
First of all,EVERY 94+ toons should be checked for boting,noway he made the lvls legitely.
Secondly,an explanation about a possible bugged skill by Sace would be nice too.If skill is working as intended,then koreana gms again messed the strong nuker spell on pvp like they have done in the past with necro's vampiric mist.
First of all,EVERY 94+ toons should be checked for boting,noway he made the lvls legitely.
+1
Secondly,an explanation about a possible bugged skill by Sace would be nice too.If skill is working as intended,then koreana gms again messed the strong nuker spell on pvp like they have done in the past with necro's vampiric mist.
I think mages are strong enough with the other skills also( ofc dont know about 95+) ( cause i am 89 and legit)...
okay to all who say nuker QQing... what you do if one of your main spell not work has intended... you QQ to...
That's not about nuker being OP it's about spell not working like many atm...
the best would be a gm to test it so to the lvl 95 nuker make a support ticket...
For ppl who say you need to bot to be 94++ atm not really i have RL friend who is 95 atm and he not bot... he just don't have life playing 18-20/days... and buying redbull...
okay to all who say nuker QQing... what you do if one of your main spell not work has intended... you QQ to...
That's not about nuker being OP it's about spell not working like many atm...
the best would be a gm to test it so to the lvl 95 nuker make a support ticket...
For ppl who say you need to bot to be 94++ atm not really i have RL friend who is 95 atm and he not bot... he just don't have life playing 18-20/days... and buying redbull...
Are you seriously trying to educate a lvl 95 mage about the element system? Do you even have a 95 mage with Unleash Hell skill? Have you any idea what you are talking about? Yea I didn't think so, maybe you shouldn't try to sound so smart and know-it-all when you clearly don't even have the slightest clue.
you dont have any clue about 24h players botting their way to 99
you know to use a bot you dont need to know any mechanics, or for that matter nothing at all
perhaps you should stop trying to be a bully and encourage people who try to help others
Quite simply the skill has reduced damage in pvp, much like wynn servitors and a few other skills/abilities other clsases have. Not something you should be crying about you over powered easymode class, or are you one of those ******s that think they should be able to one shot people in pvp?
Can we get some clarification on what is going with the Feoh Wizard 95 unleash hell skill?
The skill is suppose to be an very high powered nuke which it is on mobs, but when used in pvp it only does like 900 damage and debuff doesn't land at all.
Is this a bug or is the skill suppose to work this way? And what about 99 skill mass unleash hell, will that have the same problem?
leveling wizard to 95+ is pointless now if their higher lvl skills doesn't work properly in pvp
There is no confirmed bug suggesting that this skill is working other than designed. Monsters and players indeed have different defense stats. If you're certain it's a bug, please report it through a support ticket.
Quite simply the skill has reduced damage in pvp, much like wynn servitors and a few other skills/abilities other clsases have. Not something you should be crying about you over powered easymode class, or are you one of those ******s that think they should be able to one shot people in pvp?
A 95 skill should be doing more damage than 900ish.
A 95 skill should be doing more damage than 900ish.
And a servitor with 6k p.atk should be doing more than 200 but that's how it goes. Forgive me for not giving a ****, some classes have had these kinds of nerfs for YEARS.
And a servitor with 6k p.atk should be doing more than 200 but that's how it goes. Forgive me for not giving a ****, some classes have had these kinds of nerfs for YEARS.
Ive never been hit for 200 damage by a summoner, actually if you wanna call anything overpowered take a look at summoners :). Getting to 95 is hard as **** and the skill at that lvl should be doing more damage than anything else, whats the point of it hitting hard in PVE? No idea why youre so incredibly butthurt.
Can we get some clarification on what is going with the Feoh Wizard 95 unleash hell skill?
The skill is suppose to be an very high powered nuke which it is on mobs, but when used in pvp it only does like 900 damage and debuff doesn't land at all.
Is this a bug or is the skill suppose to work this way? And what about 99 skill mass unleash hell, will that have the same problem?
leveling wizard to 95+ is pointless now if their higher lvl skills doesn't work properly in pvp
how the hell you get to 95 so fast? wait nuker is already OP why whining?
Ive never been hit for 200 damage by a summoner, actually if you wanna call anything overpowered take a look at summoners :). Getting to 95 is hard as **** and the skill at that lvl should be doing more damage than anything else, whats the point of it hitting hard in PVE? No idea why youre so incredibly butthurt.
Agree, that person needs to get his brain checked...
Servitors have their damage limited in PvP for obvious and fairly trivial reasons.
Cause a class running around with a bow and 4 Cougars hitting continuously for 3-6k dmage non-crit in PvP vs. geared/buffed players would be totally balanced, right (and I've seen screenshots of buffed Cougars with over 20k P.Atk - that is why I use a rather high range of numbers).
In any case, the P.Atk of a cougar is a worthless comparison vs. a wizard skill's power, because MOB and servitor stats do not perform identically to Player Character stats. That person simply doesn't understand how the game works.
how the hell you get to 95 so fast? wait nuker is already OP why whining?
I see more Summoners at that level range than Nukers. Does that make them OP?
And you can do it with a decent constant (or almost constant) group (or no job and boxed buffers for some classes, or in some cases).
how the hell you get to 95 so fast? wait nuker is already OP why whining?
I didn't realize I was whining, It was just asking for clarification on if the skill was working as intended.
As for leveling fast, it is definitely possible, considering 3 bday pot from previous yr bday, 15 bday pots from event before GOD, 20+ PC vitality maintenance pots... Bday cake rotations in party setting. and x-mas tree vitality buff.... not to mention any 30 min vitality maintenance pots from before GOD.
Harnak party aoe with bday cake rotation, do your swamp dailies, multiple nursery seed a day with vitality maintenance, etc.... put everything together and u can be xping with vitality virtually the whole time.
There is no confirmed bug suggesting that this skill is working other than designed. Monsters and players indeed have different defense stats. If you're certain it's a bug, please report it through a support ticket.
Alright thank you I will submit a support ticket.
In my opinion i do feel this skill is/should be a bug, for several reasons:
1) its a end game skill, the effects of it on pvp should at least significant enough to justify the work it takes to reach it.
2) level 99 skill is virtually the same except its aoe, if the 95 skill does nothing in pvp 99 will probably be the same.
3) the skill its self is a 10 min cool down, that makes it almost useless for pve, and if it almost does nothing in pvp whats the point of even having this skill.
3) the skill its self is a 10 min cool down, that makes it almost useless for pve, and if it almost does nothing in pvp whats the point of even having this skill.
It wouldn't surprize me at all, it sounds exactly the same as some of the end-game nuker's skills in the past chronicles.
Remember when the grind at 79+ was ridiculously slow and it took ages to accumulate 80 mil SP required for the next skill (also don't forget about rare spellbooks from Hellbound), and then you learn the skill (such as Throne of Wind or Starfall) and find out it either fails or barely does any damage, consumes a ton of mp and has 45 minutes long cooldown. (Then a couple of updates later NCsoft somewhat changed the effects and stats of Starfall skill, but you see the point.)
Mages complaining about not doing enough damage, epic.
Next, lets get Yul archers here, complaining about Phoenix Arrow not doing appropriate damage considering it's 120k power. Doubt many mages would like a fix for that.
Mages complaining about not doing enough damage, epic.
Next, lets get Yul archers here, complaining about Phoenix Arrow not doing appropriate damage considering it's 120k power. Doubt many mages would like a fix for that.
It's not awesome, it's ignorant. Gear and character stats scale, that is why skill levels go up as you level, and that is why high level skills have higher power. Remember when Mage Nukes had 109 Power but Vortexes had something like 140 or so? Same difference here.
When you're PvPing level 95+ characters with R95 gear they are not running around with Vesper-level P.Def and M.Def and no Attribute resist. With the way NCSoft have tweaked Attribute since Gracia introduced them, Mages have to rely more on M.Atk and Skill Power than they did back when the Attribute P.Atk was overpowered (running around 2 shotting people with Vortex-Crusher/etc.).
Therefore, at higher grades skills tend to have really high Power Ratings because defenses at those levels are higher.
Just becuase something has 12k power doesn't mean it's supposed to be assumed to be a 1 shot skill. There is math involved. Maybe you should revisit the 8th grade so you can digest it.
You people are starting to sound like the buffoons that cried for years about Archers being overpowered because they ran out of town with Zerk and Greater Might, no Resist Shock and got stunned and two shotted by some level 78 SR.
Mages complaining about not doing enough damage, epic.
Next, lets get Yul archers here, complaining about Phoenix Arrow not doing appropriate damage considering it's 120k power. Doubt many mages would like a fix for that.
Doesn't matter if a nuke has 1200 power or a physical skill has 120k power, I just like the skills to reflect the description. If the damage is lower in pvp, the description should say so, regardless of what class it is.
as for mage damage, try updating ur jewels, since M attk plays bigger role, Mdef also became more important, time to ditch some of those low mdef boss jewels.
It's not awesome, it's ignorant. Gear and character stats scale, that is why skill levels go up as you level, and that is why high level skills have higher power. Remember when Mage Nukes had 109 Power but Vortexes had something like 140 or so? Same difference here.
When you're PvPing level 95+ characters with R95 gear they are not running around with Vesper-level P.Def and M.Def and no Attribute resist. With the way NCSoft have tweaked Attribute since Gracia introduced them, Mages have to rely more on M.Atk and Skill Power than they did back when the Attribute P.Atk was overpowered (running around 2 shotting people with Vortex-Crusher/etc.).
Therefore, at higher grades skills tend to have really high Power Ratings because defenses at those levels are higher.
Just becuase something has 12k power doesn't mean it's supposed to be assumed to be a 1 shot skill. There is math involved. Maybe you should revisit the 8th grade so you can digest it.
You people are starting to sound like the buffoons that cried for years about Archers being overpowered because they ran out of town with Zerk and Greater Might, no Resist Shock and got stunned and two shotted by some level 78 SR.
Sorry what?
I'm kinda lost trying to connect OP or my post with what you just wrote or the reason you did that for.
Though I think I got better understanding of attribute system in GoD than you, considering your blabbering about common sense stuff. I would welcome your take on math behind NCsofts Phoenix Arrow, how 120k Power Skill scales against lets say Pinpoint Shot with 28k Power.
Just to throw an idea, maybe it's not a physical power? But then I would love to see your 8th grade math explaining the process behind that.
Doesn't matter if a nuke has 1200 power or a physical skill has 120k power, I just like the skills to reflect the description. If the damage is lower in pvp, the description should say so, regardless of what class it is.
as for mage damage, try updating ur jewels, since M attk plays bigger role, Mdef also became more important, time to ditch some of those low mdef boss jewels.
I agree with everything.
What I'm interested in, is how do they scale 28k against 120k.
My initial post was just a take on NCsoft's ability to keep mysteries and whenever those mysteries should be uncovered :)
ps. I was surprised back when they started showing actual figures of buffs :D
Its not exactly a bug, it seems more like a feature (yet unreported in the patch notes, so some may argue that it is a bug).
Basically, the skill does considerably less damage (10-30 times less, just a rough estimate) when its associated debuff does not land.
There are a few skills that behave the same way, the best example is Devil's Curse and Mass Devil's Curse, which do ridiculous damage when their debuff fail to land.
And because most mobs have a considerably lower debuff resistance, the skill inflicts its "normal" damage.
But because the debuff rarely land on a player, in pvp the skill inflicts its "nerfed" damage.
The skill IS BUGGED., cofirmed with my own 95 nuker. and other 95+ nukers.
example skill elemental destruction damage on target XX does 20k
When using UNLEASH HELL, does on average 2-3 times More damage roughly 50-80k, to same target
In PVP the skill is NOT working correctly , on same target the UNLEASH HELL skills damage is almost non exsistent does extremely little between 300-900 while a weak spelll will do 3000-5000.
IF damage is rougly 3 X greater than the next strongest spell on monsters, but when done on to same PVP target and damage is almost non exsistent something is not working properly.
I'm kinda lost trying to connect OP or my post with what you just wrote or the reason you did that for.
Though I think I got better understanding of attribute system in GoD than you, considering your blabbering about common sense stuff. I would welcome your take on math behind NCsofts Phoenix Arrow, how 120k Power Skill scales against lets say Pinpoint Shot with 28k Power.
Just to throw an idea, maybe it's not a physical power? But then I would love to see your 8th grade math explaining the process behind that.
Magic skills have magic power. Archer skills are physical skills and have high physical power. The way the damage is calculated for each is not the same, that is why some physical skills have ridiculously high power values compared to mage skills that do equivalent or similar damage. That's what I'm trying to tell you. The Power Value doesn't matter, the formula does. We can make observations about this mage skill because Wizards know what skills of lower power do IRT damage. You can't take an Archer Skill and comparatively state that the Wizard skill should do x because Physical Skill with 120k Power does y. The formulas are different.
If that was your attempt at sarcasm, it failed hard and I apologize.
Comparing an Archer Skill to a Mage skill is as dumb as comparing a Cougar P.Atk and guessing what damage you THINK it should do based on what a player with 6k P.Atk would do. Cursed Men had 6k P.Atk years ago, and buffed, bowed Summoners have Cougars with much more than that anyways... Again, the formulas for what damage PCs do is different for Pets and Servitors.
The skill is broken if it's doing that little damage because:
1. Attribute Defense cannot reduce a nuke's damage below what it would do if it were non-attributed
2. The power is too high to be doing 900 damage, even against players with exceptional M.Def
I don't know why you people are turning this into yet another "cry more" thread when it's a real issue that can potentially affect more than just Wizards. You may find out your skill is similarly broken when you get to 95, and then I guess we can expect a "cry thread" from you as well, right?
The Attribute System is almost trivial to digest. A Chimp could do it, so don't feel to good about yourself.
I was stating why this is a factor, mostly due to the fact that Attribute P.Atk isn't worth nearly as much as it used to be. NCSoft has balanced mages to rely more on M.Atk and Skill Power than Attribute like before. That is why they give them a ton of INT in passives and even increased the Crit Rate whilst decreasing the base Crit damage as well.
We can no longer do crap base damage and rely on Attribute to boost it by 60-100% on geared players like back when people could only have 60 resist on each piece of armor.
Broken (and lackluster) end-game skills have serious end-game class balance consequences. Remember Anti Summoning Field and crap like that, yea...
My post wasn't in reply to the OP. It was in reply to the derail within this thread. Thanks, though.
Yes I've been pulling mickey out of mages for the obvious reasons mentoned in this thread.
On constructive side thoug, it's all pretty obvious. The only point that I would underline then, is that Pinpoint Shot and Phoenix Arrow split into as you said(if thats what actually happen) into physical skill and high physical skill.
Which would make high physical skill formula the key to understanding, why these "bugged" skills behaive as they do.
It reminds me of Hero Grandeur skill, thats one unstable debuff :D
you have your pinpoint shot with 30k power and phoenix arrow with 120k power and you're shooting someone with 3k pdef
you're doing about 2.3k with pinpoint shot and about 7k with phoenix arrow.
Now you have a mage with 30k mattk
you have elemental destruction with 407 power and unleash hell with 1260 power and you're shooting someone with 3k mdef
you're doing about 4.2k with elemental destruction and about 13k with unleash hell.
Now there's one thing that sucks about unleash hell. It has a debuff tied to it, and the more a debuff is resisted the less chance it has to land, the less the duration is if it does land, and the less damage it does.
I think all of you archers know what happens to your damage if you shoot a target without stock resist with stun shot and then again with shock resist. Your damage plumments.
Now I don't believe you should be doing less than 1/10th the damage on resists but hey, it's L2.
Mages complaining about not doing enough damage, epic.
Next, lets get Yul archers here, complaining about Phoenix Arrow not doing appropriate damage considering it's 120k power. Doubt many mages would like a fix for that.
Doesn't matter if a nuke has 1200 power or a physical skill has 120k power, I just like the skills to reflect the description. If the damage is lower in pvp, the description should say so, regardless of what class it is.
Its not exactly a bug, it seems more like a feature (yet unreported in the patch notes, so some may argue that it is a bug).
Basically, the skill does considerably less damage (10-30 times less, just a rough estimate) when its associated debuff does not land.
There are a few skills that behave the same way, the best example is Devil's Curse and Mass Devil's Curse, which do ridiculous damage when their debuff fail to land.
And because most mobs have a considerably lower debuff resistance, the skill inflicts its "normal" damage.
But because the debuff rarely land on a player, in pvp the skill inflicts its "nerfed" damage.
I also see in l2archive description 126 power..that would be weaker than the normal nuke feoh has :confused: spcially since the skill doesn't seem aligned with any element to begin with.
l2gc is updated for Harmony, there are some Tyrr warrior skills there that I'm not gonna get till Harmony patch I think, is the only explanation I can find. http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=218331
L2gc has this info before god was launched on NCwest, and some descriptions are broken. L2archive is more acurate and says 126 power. On rochand forums we thot it was 1260 power for sometime already.
Then again why would they have another OP nuke when their damage is beyond ridiculous?
L2gc has this info before god was launched on NCwest, and some descriptions are broken. L2archive is more acurate and says 126 power. On rochand forums we thot it was 1260 power for sometime already.
Then again why would they have another OP nuke when their damage is beyond ridiculous?
Its a trade with 2nd class nuke, me being a sorcerer in the past its a trade for inferno and the 99 skill is a trade for elemental assault, both having 150 and respectively 200 power as 2nd class skills. Its logic to guess that 4th class skills would have better power than 2nd class skills, even better than regular nukes that reach 400 power and their reuse is short, not 5 minutes like unleash hell.
THE power is NOT 126, there is a ZERO missing from the discription.
As i have mentioned in a previous post it does "3 TIMES MORE DAMAGE" than elemental destruction with 400+ power, when used on monsters.
The problem is it's power is next to nothing when used in PVP even if debuff lands or not. it does next to nothing. Even at 126 power the damage is not right.
Elemental symphony with 150 power can still hit for 2-3k, Unleash hell does next to nothing in pvp.
Maybe im trying to NOT pvp and they harass me, genius?
ppl 95 + atm don'T harass ppl that not in war with... they don't have time for that...So if you are at war then it's your choice to be in that clan and if not then you probably do something wrong if they harass you that much...
Back to topic ppl that say nuker don't need a new OP nuker i will just say not atm but when ppl will be full of r99 jewel we will need them...
Its a trade with 2nd class nuke, me being a sorcerer in the past its a trade for inferno and the 99 skill is a trade for elemental assault, both having 150 and respectively 200 power as 2nd class skills. Its logic to guess that 4th class skills would have better power than 2nd class skills, even better than regular nukes that reach 400 power and their reuse is short, not 5 minutes like unleash hell.
Lol you'd be suprised of how some skills are weaker than their awakened "version". *hint hint smart cubic*.
Lol you'd be suprised of how some skills are weaker than their awakened "version". *hint hint smart cubic*.
I think its not weaker, I heard from many that smart cubic doesnt work at all, might be another bug.
Anyway, I'm far from getting that 95 skill and even then it doesnt interest me another nuke with 5min reuse but they should write the descriptions right, the power, if its resisted in pvp and so on. This is not the only wrong description, there is dagger for iss and many others.
And? You have already enough skills to blast through a tanks UD like warm knife through butter. It is absurd. If 1 class needs to be improved it is not the feoh. Help the tyrr instead.
And? You have already enough skills to blast through a tanks UD like warm knife through butter. It is absurd. If 1 class needs to be improved it is not the feoh. Help the tyrr instead.