1. because of our bad rep we dont get into parties, most of the time if we do we get kicked (iv asked multiple other rogues)
2. the lack of stabs is abit much(only 3)
3. the cooldowns on most of our skills are kind of stupidly high meaning if we get tag teamed or in a 2v1 situation were screwed
4. seems to me like we have way too many nemesis classes (anything that can CC us, outrange us, or has too high an armor =GG or having to run away)
5. the land rate of the bleed and poison effects is real bad because everyone is running around overbuffed and many are equipped with the appropriate boss jewels
Feel free to add anything I missed, this is more a rant because I really love the class but HATE what ncsoft has done with it, its like they took away our daggers and gave us a kids wiffle bat instead
You didn't even list the most obvious reason why rogue is such a flawed class in 7v7. Tanks are our hardcounter, moreso than any other class. We are a single target damage dealing class with the second weakest single target damage and no strong aoe options. Nukers and archers have the option of fighting at a range where mass aggro isn't an issue for them so they have higher uptime on their target and as a result do a lot more damage, combine that with strong aoe options on archer and they're doing way more damage on the whole. Warrior has less than us but can contribute with eruption to provide a potent aoe stun and target loss which doesn't require target, so even if they do lose target on the healer and get pulled to the tank they can still assist with dropping key targets.
Our damage is ok considering what we lack at the moment and will have in the future, it's just that vs any party with a tank, by them pressing 1 button every 10 seconds my killing potential is literally cut in half because I have to wait out mass aggro. Damage to the tank is not viable because you're stabbing them for around 800 and melee is like 100~ crits on knights I think. That's just with 1 tank too. Try going to siege and fighting in an area with 2 tanks, or fight vs someone who singles you out and uses regular aggression on you too after he notices you swap aggro to not bug it out. Physical skill evasion should really dodge the target change + lock debuff. The target change is perfectly balanced for everyone else because they still have options and nukers do fine damage to tanks anyway, it's just really broken for rogue when we have to work way harder than any other dd to get our kills to begin with.
The damage is so inconsistent too, anyone rolling on wizard's harmony I can usually 1 shot on cc with a skill crit. But healers in heavy w/knight's harmony I'm lucky to do over 3k. They're way too sensitive to pdef.
A think to remember with rogues; we are probably the most gear and level dependent class in the game.
Why? Because as pointed out we have stabs that rely on bleed, and a debuff that is a poison. You look at any of the boss jewels and most of them have one, if not both of these stats on them. That's why they're so important.
Second, levels are huge. You can see this in the land rate of half kills as you get to 87+. It increases a TON with just a few levels. That however is easily mitigated when it comes to high P.def characters as noted.
From what I heard is we get buffed in the next patch, how I don't know, but I heard we do. Is it necessary? No. In group PvP I still get tons of kills, do great damage, and serve my own purpose. I just think a lot of people go into groups and want to jump right into the front line fray, and rogues just aren't that class.
You need to be tactful, and look at who is a high priority target. You need to be careful, and back off when focused, and get in there when you're needed.
I can say in group PvP I usually pick up half the kills of the group. My gear is subpar at best, but you have to pick your spots. We'll see what the new patches bring in terms of buffs, hopefully they just don't overdo it to the point we get a nerf in the next patch.
They arent really that gear dependent. But ppl need to realize that Warrior Harmony is not for Othells. Just take the Knight harmony.
Some parties will not want othells coz they die easy, especially in random groups doing SoA daily. And being lvl 85 Othell in SoA, more than likely in unelemented Dynasty light, I really wouldnt want you in the party either.
Why burden the healer with someone that is gonna take tons of dmg coz of bad gear and an annoying habit of spouting "warrior harmony for me plx plox"?
Feel free to enlighten me if you think I'm wrong, but I feel Othel's role is changed comparing to pre-GoD.
Before awaken dagger is a very strong DD in a pvp pt, dealing massive dmg and such. Hell, even a good geared dagger can kill whole pt. After awaken, it seems Othell is leaning towards a support fighter rather than a main DD. It can't just run up to a mage and 1-shot him, it has to pick his target carefully, pick his position carefully, etc... to be "pwnage".
I personally am rly worried when a rouge does half-kill on me, cuz as a wynn, I have 15k CP and ~12-13k HP full buffed. Those half-kills can be pivotal in mass pvps, since they just reduced the total damage I can take by 50%. (Well obviously tanks or tyrr might not have problem with this, hence they are hard counters to Othell).
GoD is new game, with new classes, new skills, and a new playstyle. Those complaining are just simply treating the new game like the old one.
Half kills are such a non factor in 7v7 and mass pvp. Half kill = cp becomes 0. That's all. Your cp is going to be at 0 for the majority of the fight anyway because balance doesn't touch it and your healers are going to be relying on balance and chain heal. Half kill does nothing for hp and is honestly only good as an opener on blood stab to make sure heart breaker isn't soaked up by cp, that is it.
Assuming heart breaker lands anyway. Rogues are complaining for legitimate reasons. I'm not saying this as a rant but if you like I can go through every single point that makes rogue the worst dd in this chronicle so you understand that everyone rerolling to feoh and giving up their rogue is doing it because it's an underwhelming, unsuccessul and unenjoyable class for anything other than olympiad right now.
Calling it a non-factor is a bit harsh, actually.
A healer would prolly have same CP/HP as me, if rouge can do a half-kill at start, then you only need (just an example) 13k dmg to kill him, instead of 28k. It gives you a huge advantage at start of the fight.
I can go through every single point that makes rogue the worst dd in this chronicle
This is why I said Othell seems to be leaning towards the support fighter rather than the main DD of pvp pt. You basically run around the enemy pt, making their tank focus on you, leaving space for your feoh/yul/wynn to deal dmg, because if you don't get focused, well, you know what would happen :P. So in other words: creating confusion among your enemies :D
1) 90% of the times the othell half-kill you making your cp dissapear like David Coperffield.
2) they are the new generation spoilers+damage dealers. And noone wants you in party? Even in harnak that the spoil is sh*t an othell can make your job easier cuz fast kill Seknus+Eles.
3) Dagger is not anymore like it used to, with 1 kill backstab :'(. But they still pwn healers easy.
I feel that the big issue in othell rogue dmg in pvp is the iss enchanters buff, that buffs make you never land any bleed, any hold and a few stuns, only we have 4 blows and one of that have 5 min cd and heart breaker never land neither and chain blow is you never land bleed that sh*t doesnt work either
if for some reason i can use my blows they hits 2k-3k in heavy armors users :confused:
sorry for the bad english, google traductor doesnt help :o
Start fighting healers in heavy armor on knight's harmony, scrub. I want to see your face when you do 5k on counter crit, maxcrit3 and poison on a skill crit.
Start fighting healers in heavy armor on knight's harmony, scrub. I want to see your face when you do 5k on counter crit, maxcrit3 and poison on a skill crit.
It don't mean that dagger is weak ,it mean that healer need to be nerf.
Every class have hard time with healer,If you think that i never fighter healer in heavy you wrong.
He was speak about dmg in general,i speak dmg in general not dmg just against healer.
Yeah, right, mobs is one thing, comes complete different story with players. 1 x 1 vs summoner, hard live unless use everything you have got and still hard to kill. Mages - 2 blinks. Seriously? How u gonna ever catch them with 1 chase witch reuses 12 s? that and some speed up skill? they catch u even if u on horse... Kill them? got to get to them and pray all skills lands...
Tank? forget about it. Unless lethal lands. Till I levelled to 88 landed 3 times. Once on tank, 1 on elite milipede and 1 in cokrakon. Felt like christmas. And reuse 5 mins. Whoever said something about 4 half kill skills - where is the fourth? oh, used it a minute ago, lets wait for another 4. Aore? not too bad, quite easy. Iss - debuffed with 200% skill reuse decrease - gf, to village, if no debuff, fine, thank you. Yul - 1 x 1 50-50 I would say. tyr - hard work, must be extremely lucky with skills.
Got very poor skill land rate, tried hitting iss (with iss buffs both obviously) with light armor, bleed landed 3 times out of 15, chain blow did not landed all tree timess. Tried on aore. Bleed lands same rate as on iss - 1500 to 4.5k dmg,used chain blow= critical hit! hit for 1600 dmg. What? hold on, what? that is blessed apo +4 (+844 p crit dmg bonus). I wonder sometimes...
That is why rogue not a popular char. Many ppl gave up rogues and started some other chars. 1 x 1 its hard life in a field with all buffs equal, mass, not to bad, if no one sets target on you, witch is not possible, as u have got to go after healers, so u r main target. Tanks grips, agro, summoners boxes and the rest. Lucky to land few of skills in robe. And if they dont land, well, hide, get aoed, get killed. Landing rate and maybe some more resistence to debuffs would not go amiss, dunno what else to change.
Throw poison needle? Whats that? ever landed to someone? Strange, probably never to me. Its quite fun to play rogue, but it is lite version of the adventurer it was used to be, its not as sharp, swift and fearsome, i still wait to see what is coming up next and do hope that it will get improved some time, as spoiling is not such a bright future...
What do you expect?
2 dagers kill enemy healers and iss and then fighters vs fighters?
If you can't handle it re-roll...
Everybody thinks he is John Rambo and he should kill everyone else...
2 dagger wont kill iss + healer, unless they got crooked hands and rogues lucky with skill land rate. test it yourself, when u hit 1.7k to light armor to iss, its far away from killing
Stop with the 1v1 bull****.
"I can't beat this class in 1v1 I'm too weak I need fix" - That 'argument' is just ******ed. L2 isn't about 1v1, it is about mass pvp. So if you can't handle your "rouge" in mass pvp, better reroll. Also if you can't get that argument above out of your mind, /uninstall
say whatever u like, if u cant kill it in 1 v 1, how are u meant to do it in mass? make some screens or video about urself (if u got rogue) hitting and killing robes as it should, and then chat, cos now u chatting nonsense
You're just wrong.
1v1 and mass pvp are 2 completely different things. It's very easy to not showing your back for the dagger in 1v1, but it's hard to do so in mass, and that's when rouge shines, you're supposed to kill ppl who left their back open, not going like Rambo and facestabbing everyone, then cry "I need fix I cant kill anyone".
Go watch on youtube clips of good daggers, even before GoD, you'll see how they pick their targets: by getting BEHIND the ROBE users.
What's the point of you winning a guy in 1v1 while his clan beats you in mass pvp? :)
in my opinion they need to be a little bit changed.. first of all worthless skill poison needle - delete that, posion zone - whatever, kick - is not bad disturb, but u got to run towards your opponent and mischief.. still cant figure out what that skill does, because 100% resisted.. those skills can be deleted and changed to power bluff which really works at least for 1 sec and turns back. Tried so many times in duel just for testing... land is... dont know, got bored to keep trying. Second chain blow could do not require bleed. Thats it.. atm i can kill almost any class except sigel knights and wynn summoner.. well feoh hard to catch, but they dont stand long when u get to them.. by this line what i want to say that sometimes ppl really cry(sorry for offence) to much and what i post is just obvious things which need to be changed. Sometimes i dont even bother myself using power bluff :)
biggest thing for me is that were not wanted in parties except for the occasional spoiler which isnt that often, you dont wanna know how many times iv joined a pt only to be kicked 5 seconds later because of my class its real depressing
I play Othell Rogue and it is not that hard to get party, just annoying to be spoiler all the time, i am damage dealer :D feel kind of being used :s :D
One more thing i forgot to mention in my previous post is that dagger style is changed. Those skills as dagger explosion and razon rain is just a joke. Daggers always were instant killers not some supporters in parties with mass skills which damages are very low. In this case they going wrong way.. :)
i think one of the major issues about L2 has always been the lack of support or feedback from ncsoft, theres just no communication at all. I would sincerely hope the devs have noticed that a majority of othell players are upset with the class and have some sort of changes planned for the future to fix some of the issues
Anyone notice Assassin's Reflex rarely activates? Description says it's a 10% chance on evade, but it feels more like 1% to me. Also why the hell would they make Heartbreaker/ChainStab be possible to miss from the BACK. =_=
all these ppl QQing "SO HARD TO KILL WIZARD!" "ONLY HAVE A CHANCE IF I USE ALL I GOT!" "I CANT KILL TANK!"
the game is NOT supposed to be faceroll easy for 1 class walking over all others. u have a hard time with tanks? how do u think tank feels when he fights a healer?
THIS GAME ISNT SUPPOSED TO BE EASY JUST FOR YOU. SOME THINGS ARE HARD TO DO. DEAL WITH IT AND STOP DEMANDING CHANGES FOR THINGS THAT ARE PERFECTLY LOGICAL BUT YOU JUST SUCK DONKEY BALLS.