We’d like to share some updates with you about our efforts in reducing the population of bots (third-party program users) and RMT (Real Money Trade) users on our servers. In the past months since the launch of the Truly Free business model, hundreds of thousands of accounts have been created, and our playerbase has grown extensively. As some of you know, many of those newly created accounts turned out to be bots or RMT-related. The past two months have been a real challenge, but we are starting to see some major improvements.
In the past weeks our efforts in this campaign against bots have begun to yield positive results. We have gained more staff dedicated to bot hunting, we have been finding new methods of bot detection, and great improvements have been made to account security and the account creation process. Thanks to these changes, we are now able to catch and ban RMT accounts early on, and their activity has reduced significantly.
On that note, we realize that the amount of RMT activity we’re seeing means that there are players in Lineage II who are funding it. We’d like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that buying or selling Adena, items or accounts for real money is not only a bannable offense, but also negatively impacts everyone on the server. Using third-party programs to automate game play or bypass game systems is also a bannable offense. We hope to convince all players to help maintain a good game experience for all by playing the game as it was designed, and not by cheating. Lineage II is a game where you build your reputation around your character and your actions. For your own sake, don't ruin it by cheating: you will get caught.
At this time we’d also like to inform you of updates to the ban policy. Over a year ago, we had implemented a three-strike policy. Now, in light of changes to the business plan and the immense increase in player population, the policy has been changed. Players caught associating with RMT or using third-party programs are immediately and permanently banned. Consequences for other offenses are decided on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of the GMs.
As always, if you suspect someone of using a 3rd-party program the best thing to do is use the dedicated Bot Report button from the Action window in-game, or to submit an online ticket (https://lineage2.custhelp.com/app/ask/) on our support site, providing the offender’s server name, character name, and location. We are taking this issue very seriously and it is a top priority every day.
While our progress continues, we are also finding and banning third-party software users as well, with increasing success. In the past two weeks, we have banned over 15,000 RMT-related accounts, and over 2,000 accounts for third-party software usage. In such a large player population it may be difficult to see the results, but as we continue to ramp up our coverage, the word is out that cheaters’ days are numbered.
As our efforts continue, we are happy to see the server populations thrive with genuinely devoted players who enjoy Lineage II as the game was designed to be played. The player community is growing closer, enriching the game for all.
The effects are definitely noticeable. I don't see the massive and obvious bot trains in the swamp and the so called 'bot/top' clans who can't shut the f up on forums and in game have all but disappeared.
Wow, sounds good. Both the efforts, and that you're finally communicating with us and extensively reporting on them. How much ISK ... I mean, adena, did those cheaters lose? :D
We’d like to share some updates with you about our efforts in reducing the population of bots (third-party program users) and RMT (Real Money Trade) users on our servers. In the past months since the launch of the Truly Free business model, hundreds of thousands of accounts have been created, and our playerbase has grown extensively. As some of you know, many of those newly created accounts turned out to be bots or RMT-related. The past two months have been a real challenge, but we are starting to see some major improvements.
In the past weeks our efforts in this campaign against bots have begun to yield positive results. We have gained more staff dedicated to bot hunting, we have been finding new methods of bot detection, and great improvements have been made to account security and the account creation process. Thanks to these changes, we are now able to catch and ban RMT accounts early on, and their activity has reduced significantly.
On that note, we realize that the amount of RMT activity we’re seeing means that there are players in Lineage II who are funding it. We’d like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that buying or selling Adena, items or accounts for real money is not only a bannable offense, but also negatively impacts everyone on the server. Using third-party programs to automate game play or bypass game systems is also a bannable offense. We hope to convince all players to help maintain a good game experience for all by playing the game as it was designed, and not by cheating. Lineage II is a game where you build your reputation around your character and your actions. For your own sake, don't ruin it by cheating: you will get caught.
At this time we’d also like to inform you of updates to the ban policy. Over a year ago, we had implemented a three-strike policy. Now, in light of changes to the business plan and the immense increase in player population, the policy has been changed. Players caught associating with RMT or using third-party programs are immediately and permanently banned. Consequences for other offenses are decided on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of the GMs.
As always, if you suspect someone of using a 3rd-party program the best thing to do is use the dedicated Bot Report button from the Action window in-game, or to submit an online ticket (https://lineage2.custhelp.com/app/ask/) on our support site, providing the offender’s server name, character name, and location. We are taking this issue very seriously and it is a top priority every day.
While our progress continues, we are also finding and banning third-party software users as well, with increasing success. In the past two weeks, we have banned over 15,000 RMT-related accounts, and over 2,000 accounts for third-party software usage. In such a large player population it may be difficult to see the results, but as we continue to ramp up our coverage, the word is out that cheaters’ days are numbered.
As our efforts continue, we are happy to see the server populations thrive with genuinely devoted players who enjoy Lineage II as the game was designed to be played. The player community is growing closer, enriching the game for all.
Your new dedicated staff shoud take a close look at this weekend's TW and Sieges for pvp-cheat type programs.
I Don't believe you. You failed before while it was P2P, You failed and were unprepared during F2P, You gave a 7day ban to exploiters who made millions of XP, millions of adena within a single day, who flooded the market with Apo Bows and TW drops and not a perm one, and proof u do not ban bots are those statues of shame I still see them in Oel Manhum spots.
I aggree with all those sace wrote BUT let me remind you ncsoft that your selling items through real life money you make ppl pay 2-3k usd to make weapons beyond imagination and have a clear advantage to those who don't wanna pay of can't afford. You ncsoft made the game free but it's only for rich ppl who will pay you to become powerfull above all. Nice post but when all those ppl made +15 weapons and +6 armor set by paying you real life money what will you say about this ????
Tho what is rly needed is a check since GoD went live.
There are still a lot of ppl 93++ that botted and just recently stopped after some high lvls got hammered.
If NC isn't doing that they already have their advantage from botting 5+ lvl ahead of the legits.
Means they can freely farm the higher lvl xp zones, lock the good spots and sell the drops overpriced to the low lvls once they have all their R95 sets finished.
Sounds good to me. Some side notes, I liked the 3 strikes policy. Why? Because I believe a law should have more than only the death penalty. Sometimes I wonder how strong the proof is that you (GMs) use and it has been suggested you can be banned simply because you got mass reported. For a true legit who plays for years and years to get to a certain level this is a nightmare scenario. Perhaps the GM can give a perma ban, but based on how sure he is?
Some side notes, I liked the 3 strikes policy. Why? Because I believe a law should have more than only the death penalty.
A "death penalty" is less of an issue if the one "dying" gets to "reincarnate" immediately (make a new character) if he or she so chooses.
A perma ban here just bans this account, not the player (this is different in Korea BTW, where each player is using their version of a social security number to identify themselves). You can continue playing the game if you like.
A "death penalty" is less of an issue if the one "dying" gets to "reincarnate" immediately (make a new character) if he or she so chooses.
A perma ban here just bans this account, not the player (this is different in Korea BTW, where each player is using their version of a social security number to identify themselves). You can continue playing the game if you like.
You didnt quite understand. Of course a bot will just bot again upto level 95 np. But if they just see o mister Akjosch has 100 bot reports (from an enemy who hates him) BAN. Would you play again if you reach level 95+ by playing by hand day in day out, for years (= legit). A perma ban for a true legit is the death penalty, 99% will never play again.
Besides, now that they have enough players, they remove this policy and show that the only reason was to beef up the number of players. Not because it was the best, most fair policy. There are so many possible punishments, like lowering levels or taking stuff away. I am just saying not to have only perma ban as a punishment unless you are 100% sure about your detection quality (which I doubt). You can get banned for not having GG on, but we all know how unstable that piece of software is. What if it crashes?
My question to you is: do you trust NC 100% that they will not falsely accuse you of botting?
You didnt quite understand. Of course a bot will just bot again upto level 95 np. But if they just see o mister Akjosch has 100 bot reports (from an enemy who hates him) BAN. Would you play again if you reach level 95+ by playing by hand day in day out, for years (= legit). A perma ban for a true legit is the death penalty, 99% will never play again.
I don't play because of levels, gear, adena or even the grinding (I hate the PvE part of this game ... well, of any MMO, really). I play because of the people. What does it matter if somehow NCSoft gets the idea to ban me? I can chat with a level 1 char as much as I can with a level 99, which is 80% of what I do in this game.
Besides, there is always the support system. Bot reports alone never banned anyone permanently, and I doubt that'll change.
Besides, now that they have enough players, they remove this policy and show that the only reason was to beef up the number of players. Not because it was the best, most fair policy. There are so many possible punishments, like lowering levels or taking stuff away. Just saying not to have only perma ban as a punishment unless you are 100% sure about your detection quality (which I doubt)
I'd like to see it as NCSoft realising the "3 strikes" policy change was a crappy idea in the first place. :)
My question to you is: do you trust NC 100% that they will not falsely accuse you of botting?
No. And I don't care. Some sacrifices have to be made for the greater good.
You didnt quite understand. Of course a bot will just bot again upto level 95 np. But if they just see o mister Akjosch has 100 bot reports (from an enemy who hates him) BAN. Would you play again if you reach level 95+ by playing by hand day in day out, for years (= legit). A perma ban for a true legit is the death penalty, 99% will never play again.
People don't get banned just because they get reported a lot, although it sounds TEMPTING to implement such a system. If the goldsellers would be auto-banned if 100 people /blocked them because of their shouts, the GM would have a lot less work. But they are not, because of the abuse danger.
By the way it was early yesterday (before this announcement was made), that I mentioned in clanchat "There seems to be a lot less goldseller spam lately. There is none here in Schuttgart right now for example". It definitely was noticeable if you paid attention.
I saw many botters again today but I hope that in time, they get what they deserve. Actually it is much more satisfying if they are banned a bit later, and not already at level 60 :) That way they will have lost more time.
I aggree with all those sace wrote BUT let me remind you ncsoft that your selling items through real life money you make ppl pay 2-3k usd to make weapons beyond imagination and have a clear advantage to those who don't wanna pay of can't afford. You ncsoft made the game free but it's only for rich ppl who will pay you to become powerfull above all. Nice post but when all those ppl made +15 weapons and +6 armor set by paying you real life money what will you say about this ????
agree with this..
You blame RMT for their activity and because "they ruin" the game, but I see no difference between them and NCSoft who give safe enchants for lots of money (destruction scrolls).
The only difference is who takes the money, that's all.
agree with this..
You blame RMT for their activity and because "they ruin" the game, but I see no difference between them and NCSoft who give safe enchants for lots of money (destruction scrolls).
The only difference is who takes the money, that's all.
RMT is a problem because bots are created to get the adena, this gives lag, spot wars, login problems and all problems that come from bots. F2p is more can't beat them join them approach, but without the bots being needed.
I don't play because of levels, gear, adena or even the grinding (I hate the PvE part of this game ...
Most people care about this, you want to be competive and you do effort to build your character. If they falsely nullify this effort, well most people will not come back like they used to. Your CP will be all high levels and you will need years again to be the same. You will also loose your group. Chatting is nice, but if I want only that, I would only do MSN.
RMT is a problem because bots are created to get the adena, this gives lag, spot wars, login problems and all problems that come from bots. F2p is more can't beat them join them approach, but without the bots being needed.
You think ppl don't run bot trains to sell adena and buy time cards for NCCoin?
You think ppl don't run bot trains to sell adena and buy time cards for NCCoin?
explain this. Why do you need time cards in a free to play game :confused: Run bot trains yes ok, get time cards(:confused:) and then how you get NC Coins? In any case, you say sell adena = RMT and this needs a bot, correct? So the problem still is RMT and that it creates bots. If there is some loop hole, which honestly don't understand yet, it should be closed (like they made the shots untradeable)
I aggree with all those sace wrote BUT let me remind you ncsoft that your selling items through real life money you make ppl pay 2-3k usd to make weapons beyond imagination and have a clear advantage to those who don't wanna pay of can't afford. You ncsoft made the game free but it's only for rich ppl who will pay you to become powerfull above all. Nice post but when all those ppl made +15 weapons and +6 armor set by paying you real life money what will you say about this ????
You got a limit on spending/buying per month from nc store, about enchants as far I remember you couldn't buy more then 3-4 packs.
See the thing is, many of the people posting in this thread are either casuals that like to chat 80% of the time or role players, etc. Basically, people that will never see end game and are content to log in to a free account.
They'll change this policy again as soon as they realize that people aren't going to reinvest by rolling another toon and paying several hundred more dollars for runes, etc. The purpose of the 3 strikes was to keep from pushing away long term players who gave in to the temptation, which happen to also be the ones that invest heavily in the items they sell. People that take weeks to go from 86-87 aren't the ones buying 15 dollar runes.
I hate to burst people's bubbles, but competitively playing this game here means money. Runes to xp faster, top gear, skill enchants that costs millions per click, etc. To achieve that some ppl RMT, some spend wads on time cards for NCCoin, some bot, and some do a combination of all of them. Don't bother trying to tell me that you or your friend that is in a top clan and 9x don't engage in this because I know better than to believe you. NCSoft pretends to be shocked or abhorred that people resort to this, but their game design lends itself greatly to this behavior.
Most people care about this, you want to be competive and you do effort to build your character. If they falsely nullify this effort, well most people will not come back like they used to. Your CP will be all high levels and you will need years again to be the same. You will also loose your group. Chatting is nice, but if I want only that, I would only do MSN.
I can - and did - take castles by "chatting" with the right people, about the right things. Just because I don't care about levels, gear or adena doesn't mean I'm not competitive. :)
I can - and did - take castles by "chatting" with the right people, about the right things. Just because I don't care about levels, gear or adena doesn't mean I'm not competitive. :)
Politics is important, that been said, the game is neither only politics nor only military might (= having the best equip and level). However, you got this castle because someone cared about his level and equipment or because they can level fast and equip fast in some magical way if you know what I mean ;)
How can you even speak about RMT? when u pushed DEWR to L2Store and I personally know ppl who bought 100+ destiny packs to OE r95 weapons...
and guess what they gonna do with those.. now when DEWR are not available..
HMMMMMMmmm..... use for PVE! YES FOR SURE!
They are doing what everyone has been asking for and you still bash? They have and will always be about making money don't be so rude now go xp who gives a flying gr********* what some people spend does not and will never affect you keep on playing the game grouch
We’d like to share some updates with you about our efforts in reducing the population of bots (third-party program users) and RMT (Real Money Trade) users on our servers. In the past months since the launch of the Truly Free business model, hundreds of thousands of accounts have been created, and our playerbase has grown extensively. As some of you know, many of those newly created accounts turned out to be bots or RMT-related. The past two months have been a real challenge, but we are starting to see some major improvements.
In the past weeks our efforts in this campaign against bots have begun to yield positive results. We have gained more staff dedicated to bot hunting, we have been finding new methods of bot detection, and great improvements have been made to account security and the account creation process. Thanks to these changes, we are now able to catch and ban RMT accounts early on, and their activity has reduced significantly.
On that note, we realize that the amount of RMT activity we’re seeing means that there are players in Lineage II who are funding it. We’d like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that buying or selling Adena, items or accounts for real money is not only a bannable offense, but also negatively impacts everyone on the server. Using third-party programs to automate game play or bypass game systems is also a bannable offense. We hope to convince all players to help maintain a good game experience for all by playing the game as it was designed, and not by cheating. Lineage II is a game where you build your reputation around your character and your actions. For your own sake, don't ruin it by cheating: you will get caught.
At this time we’d also like to inform you of updates to the ban policy. Over a year ago, we had implemented a three-strike policy. Now, in light of changes to the business plan and the immense increase in player population, the policy has been changed. Players caught associating with RMT or using third-party programs are immediately and permanently banned. Consequences for other offenses are decided on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of the GMs.
As always, if you suspect someone of using a 3rd-party program the best thing to do is use the dedicated Bot Report button from the Action window in-game, or to submit an online ticket (https://lineage2.custhelp.com/app/ask/) on our support site, providing the offender’s server name, character name, and location. We are taking this issue very seriously and it is a top priority every day.
While our progress continues, we are also finding and banning third-party software users as well, with increasing success. In the past two weeks, we have banned over 15,000 RMT-related accounts, and over 2,000 accounts for third-party software usage. In such a large player population it may be difficult to see the results, but as we continue to ramp up our coverage, the word is out that cheaters’ days are numbered.
As our efforts continue, we are happy to see the server populations thrive with genuinely devoted players who enjoy Lineage II as the game was designed to be played. The player community is growing closer, enriching the game for all.
You say "immediately and permanetly baned"...does this refer to the account...or... the IP address...cuz if the former...it wont stop someone from making a new acct and doing it all over again....heck with how easy it is to lvl up these days ( lvl 1-85 anyway)...do you think someone is really gonna care if their "Account" got banned?...i dont think so...they will just start all over again and laugh at NC while doing it...Now...if ya "Ban" the IP...they must go find a new game to play and im all for that cuz i dont want the cheaters around anymore than you do Sace....and not only do we not want them around...neither me or you ( NCSoft) "Needs" them around. I also must agree with the one guy who said you ( NCSoft) are part of the problem too...what makes NC any different than the RMT farmers....you sell fake items for real world money and the things we get fail most of the time ( 100% of the time for me) encouraging ppl to buy more and more Destiny packs, just to get more worthless crap. Recently i bought 2 "Destiny Packs"...i got the scrolls and lucky rune stones...did i get a +4 +5 armor?...Heck no i didnt and i was ******, i spent $50.00 for wothless Pieces of ****...and due to it ...ya wont get anymore of my money, thats for **** sure...and im sure there are others out there that have had this happen to em as well... so before ya go on telling us what a wonderful job you guys are doing at banning the RMT farmers...take a good look at your own backyard...cuz IMO ...NC isnt an better than the RMT Bots
Now...if ya "Ban" the IP...they must go find a new game to play
Maybe where YOU live everyone and their dog has their own permanent IP. In europe and probably also in other regions pretty much everyone is on dynamic IPs. For example most german ISP will disconnect everyone after 24 hours and have them reconnect, usually resulting in a different IP. I have had internet access since around 1995 and up to today I never had a static IP with any ISP I subscribed to.
yes gz u banned pve bots gz. its something nice i cant get around that fact but seriously
ARE PVE BOTS THE PROBLEM IN LINEAGE2?
no
IS RMT PROBLEM IN LINEAGE2?
i dont really give a **** if some1 buys adena in order to get him self something
problem in lineage 2 is PVP bots lineage 2 will always have pve bots and rmt
simply because this game takes a **** load of your time to lvl up and its pretty boring to hit same mob over and over again for 0,00% (yes really guys sometimes u bar doesnt move at all u need to kill multiple mobs to get 0,01%)
rmt is problem in any mmo and u cant get rid of them so dont spend much time on these guys
pvp bots is what ruin lineage 2 sieges arent sieges anymore
people target u if ur hitting their healer or people use warrior healing potions with a Bot program so its nearly impossible to drop them cus bot program reacts in matter of milliseconds same with healers
o u got a debuff? no problem dude my bot will dispel you in 0,001 millisecond its beyond lame pretty much whole pvp is automated go back to good old days with pvp it will make people alot more happy maybe the new players will curse at me cus they have to lvl between pve bots
but at the end when u reach 99 and start to pvp and figure out ur fighting mostly pvp bots that do everything on exact right moment
like u wanna res > ur enemy will interupt
or u accept res all enemys will target u soon as u get up in order to make u lose all buffs before u get noble
these are things that kill lineage 2 in my eyes
tho i have to admit i never really hated pve bots in any game as many other people do i always look at the bright side of it :P
they farm mats they make market cheaper so i can get my stuff cheaper i know others hate this but every1 is different :)
You say "immediately and permanetly baned"...does this refer to the account...or... the IP address...cuz if the former...it wont stop someone from making a new acct and doing it all over again....heck with how easy it is to lvl up these days ( lvl 1-85 anyway)...do you think someone is really gonna care if their "Account" got banned?...i dont think so...they will just start all over again and laugh at NC while doing it...Now...if ya "Ban" the IP...they must go find a new game to play and im all for that cuz i dont want the cheaters around anymore than you do Sace....and not only do we not want them around...neither me or you ( NCSoft) "Needs" them around. I also must agree with the one guy who said you ( NCSoft) are part of the problem too...what makes NC any different than the RMT farmers....you sell fake items for real world money and the things we get fail most of the time ( 100% of the time for me) encouraging ppl to buy more and more Destiny packs, just to get more worthless crap. Recently i bought 2 "Destiny Packs"...i got the scrolls and lucky rune stones...did i get a +4 +5 armor?...Heck no i didnt and i was ******, i spent $50.00 for wothless Pieces of ****...and due to it ...ya wont get anymore of my money, thats for **** sure...and im sure there are others out there that have had this happen to em as well... so before ya go on telling us what a wonderful job you guys are doing at banning the RMT farmers...take a good look at your own backyard...cuz IMO ...NC isnt an better than the RMT Bots
Its your money, the packs have a description, You have the choice to buy it or not. Just don't cry about it and dont compare it to the unfair advantage bots have vs real person :).
the only thing I complain its about NCsoft don't limit the packs / account nothing more.
In the past two weeks, we have banned over 15,000 RMT-related accounts
As much as I would like to rejoice at such news, I still see my chat screen full of adena sellers messages. These should be the easiest freakin' things to weed out and yet, there they are... day after day...
As much as I would like to rejoice at such news, I still see my chat screen full of adena sellers messages. These should be the easiest freakin' things to weed out and yet, there they are... day after day...
they are not botting, and advertising its not forbidden. I dont think NCSoft can really do anything about it.
5 years too late Sace; just look at what is now the L2 "community". The long time pay for play players are left with servers full of people that could not afford 15 bucks a month. NA players now looking for a NA Timezone.
Post a list of the names of players that were banned and I will believe something is changing; I am not going to celebrate the banning of a bunch of people that just joined the so called 'official' game. Who cares?
5 years too late Sace; just look at what is now the L2 "community". The long time pay for play players are left with servers full of people that could not afford 15 bucks a month. NA players now looking for a NA Timezone.
Post a list of the names of players that were banned and I will believe something is changing; I am not going to celebrate the banning of a bunch of people that just joined the so called 'official' game. Who cares?
Lald
+1. I play on euro timezone ( naia ) but i think NA players need their own server ... And Ncsoft continue your good job.
Well this will not end wile ncsoft continues to make this game for no-lifers and a farming game.
Dont see any improvements on this game, you got fast to 85 but now 85 its the new A grade gf....
This game is way to far to be balanced in everything.
Until you keep this game like this ppl will not be crying for being banned , they will just bot up another account.
Till 85 its all cool from 85 to 86 you lose the same time that you needed to make lvl 1 to 85 or more , to 87 i don't want to think about it. This should be a game to everyone play not only no-lifers . Try to have a family and a job see if you can play this game and do something on it ... This should be a game to Have Fun not to lose our lifes on it.
+1 for banning bots but this will not resolve the problem..
explain this. Why do you need time cards in a free to play game :confused: Run bot trains yes ok, get time cards(:confused:) and then how you get NC Coins? In any case, you say sell adena = RMT and this needs a bot, correct? So the problem still is RMT and that it creates bots. If there is some loop hole, which honestly don't understand yet, it should be closed (like they made the shots untradeable)
People use time cards to purchase NCCoin (60 day time card=2400 NCCoin), which they in turn use to buy destiny packs for the featured items such as DEWR and also to a lesser degree for the runes. So instead of paying NCSoft from their CC or paypal, they bot for the adena and then sell the adena to those gold sites in return for time cards.
Thanks... many appreciate your efforts and others remember the days when the ban hammer was swung with great regularity. May our community thrive amongst this new campaign!
Thanks... many appreciate your efforts and others remember the days when the ban hammer was swung with great regularity. May our community thrive amongst this new campaign!
Really? When was that? Cause the first time I tried retail was in '06/'07 on Devianne and there were so many dwarf bots around the elf village guards that it resembled a bee hive of some sort.
Thanks... many appreciate your efforts and others remember the days when the ban hammer was swung with great regularity. May our community thrive amongst this new campaign!
Really? When was that? Cause the first time I tried retail was in '07 on Devianne and there were so many dwarf bots around the elf village guards that it resembled a bee hive of some sort.
While our progress continues, we are also finding and banning third-party software users as well, with increasing success. In the past two weeks, we have banned over 15,000 RMT-related accounts, and over 2,000 accounts for third-party software usage. In such a large player population it may be difficult to see the results, but as we continue to ramp up our coverage, the word is out that cheaters’ days are numbered.
Nice dodge on the pvp-cheaters issue.
You say just enough to make it seem like you're also talking about pvp cheaters without actually having explicitly addressed them.
It's been almost a year (http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3070628&postcount=40) since Moxie acknowledged that NCSoft knows the difference between PvP cheaters and your run-of-the-mill farmer bots and claimed that you were starting to pursue pvp cheaters more aggressively.
So, how about it? How many of those 2,000 banned accounts were banned for pvp cheating? Or are you still spinning together the numbers of pvp cheaters and farmer bots you've caught so you won't have to show how few pvp cheaters you've actually banned?
In almost a year, I would imagine that NCSoft, as a result of their "more-aggressive stance" on pvp cheaters, would have managed to ban more than whatever miniscule fraction of 2,000 accounts.
agree with this..
You blame RMT for their activity and because "they ruin" the game, but I see no difference between them and NCSoft who give safe enchants for lots of money (destruction scrolls).
The only difference is who takes the money, that's all.
Really? When was that? Cause the first time I tried retail was in '06/'07 on Devianne and there were so many dwarf bots around the elf village guards that it resembled a bee hive of some sort.
All the time...
...as long as you're viewing NCSoft "support" through Dracha's rose-tinted glasses (customized with "NCSoft's #1 Fanboy" on the rim).
I aggree with all those sace wrote BUT let me remind you ncsoft that your selling items through real life money you make ppl pay 2-3k usd to make weapons beyond imagination and have a clear advantage to those who don't wanna pay of can't afford. You ncsoft made the game free but it's only for rich ppl who will pay you to become powerfull above all. Nice post but when all those ppl made +15 weapons and +6 armor set by paying you real life money what will you say about this ????
Hmm +1
economic situation in the world for average people is getting worst and worst and coins store items are really expensive for the average person to use in monthly basis.
fixing the game itself in terms of adena-items with normal grind/quest/events isnt better than any botwar?
If L2 was working as a fair game where a person who plays several hours daily can get his toon to endgame content/lvl/gear along with any other player who spent same time/years/effort as he, without the need of boting/rmt or use a gold visa card for coins store.
- if having better or worst internet connection-lags-computer ect,was the only difference to boost you or not on pvp then things would be different.
-i know lots of players that play this game just to spent some free time without any goals at all and finding areas free from bots is enough for them,it is not for players like me.
Wow, sounds good. Both the efforts, and that you're finally communicating with us and extensively reporting on them. How much ISK ... I mean, adena, did those cheaters lose? :D
This cannot be stressed enough. NCsoft needs to let the players know more often that they are actually doing something. Otherwise this starts to look like a bad private server where the Admins are dodging.
What i see is NCSoft giving numbers and big words to the legit players as a result of the hundreds of threads complaining, but actually not much changed and this is what makes me think so: "As always, if you suspect someone of using a 3rd-party program the best thing to do is use the dedicated Bot Report button from the Action window in-game, or to submit an online ticket (https://lineage2.custhelp.com/app/ask/) on our support site, providing the offender’s server name, character name, and location. We are taking this issue very seriously and it is a top priority every day". Every 10 minutes in hero chat u can see ppl blaming each other about scripts ( most of the cases with a reason ) and if there is GM who "cares" can check this (if NCSoft can check this) and take any action. I agree that the main problem are the pvp programs, so until i see any action against this (which will be noticed even without official announcement ) I don't think any significant improvement is made. Now are punished just the accounts who make the players money go into farmers pocket instead of NCSoft's one.
You say just enough to make it seem like you're also talking about pvp cheaters without actually having explicitly addressed them.
It's been almost a year (http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3070628&postcount=40) since Moxie acknowledged that NCSoft knows the difference between PvP cheaters and your run-of-the-mill farmer bots and claimed that you were starting to pursue pvp cheaters more aggressively.
So, how about it? How many of those 2,000 banned accounts were banned for pvp cheating? Or are you still spinning together the numbers of pvp cheaters and farmer bots you've caught so you won't have to show how few pvp cheaters you've actually banned?
In almost a year, I would imagine that NCSoft, as a result of their "more-aggressive stance" on pvp cheaters, would have managed to ban more than whatever miniscule fraction of 2,000 accounts.
So I take it Ncsoft is proud of banning 15000 level 1 characters created for tersi's lights, and 2000 accounts used to spam chat? Good job. The thing is, every single 85+ botter Ive reported since launch is still playing. Every. Single. One of them. Now, it is certainly possible they weren't all bots, but I've played long enough to know the signs. If ncsoft really cared about stopping rmting, they would simply make all cash shop items tradable. Players wouldn't need to buy adena from chinese gold farmers if they could simply sell exp runes, silly hats, and vitality potions to one another. That's pretty much what every other f2p game does, and it works pretty well. Certainly, there will always be bots and gold sellers, because it costs them nothing to set up a bot and let it run, but you can heavily discourage them simply giving players the ability to set the market price of adena through the official cash shop. It's so simple, a cave man could do it. So why hasn't ncsoft?
So I take it Ncsoft is proud of banning 15000 level 1 characters created for tersi's lights, and 2000 accounts used to spam chat? Good job. The thing is, every single 85+ botter Ive reported since launch is still playing. Every. Single. One of them.(...)
I can tell you - is not so bad.
I know ONE SINGLE BOT 85+ who got banned :)
Even more than one ;)
Few so called pro-players from almost top of list at monument from Naia.
So it is not so bad....
Fingers crossed maybe NC do 1-2 such actions in couple of weeks.
yes gz u banned pve bots gz. its something nice i cant get around that fact but seriously
ARE PVE BOTS THE PROBLEM IN LINEAGE2?
no
IS RMT PROBLEM IN LINEAGE2?
i dont really give a **** if some1 buys adena in order to get him self something
problem in lineage 2 is PVP bots lineage 2 will always have pve bots and rmt
simply because this game takes a **** load of your time to lvl up and its pretty boring to hit same mob over and over again for 0,00% (yes really guys sometimes u bar doesnt move at all u need to kill multiple mobs to get 0,01%)
rmt is problem in any mmo and u cant get rid of them so dont spend much time on these guys
pvp bots is what ruin lineage 2 sieges arent sieges anymore
people target u if ur hitting their healer or people use warrior healing potions with a Bot program so its nearly impossible to drop them cus bot program reacts in matter of milliseconds same with healers
o u got a debuff? no problem dude my bot will dispel you in 0,001 millisecond its beyond lame pretty much whole pvp is automated go back to good old days with pvp it will make people alot more happy maybe the new players will curse at me cus they have to lvl between pve bots
but at the end when u reach 99 and start to pvp and figure out ur fighting mostly pvp bots that do everything on exact right moment
like u wanna res > ur enemy will interupt
or u accept res all enemys will target u soon as u get up in order to make u lose all buffs before u get noble
these are things that kill lineage 2 in my eyes
tho i have to admit i never really hated pve bots in any game as many other people do i always look at the bright side of it :P
they farm mats they make market cheaper so i can get my stuff cheaper i know others hate this but every1 is different :)
"At this time we’d also like to inform you of updates to the ban policy. Over a year ago, we had implemented a three-strike policy. Now, in light of changes to the business plan and the immense increase in player population, the policy has been changed. Players caught associating with RMT or using third-party programs are immediately and permanently banned. Consequences for other offenses are decided on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of the GMs."
I can't tell you how happy reading this made me. The change in policy will make it really rough on the player bots.
I am really quite shocked though at the behavior of the community concerning this information that was given to us.
1. If you get banned, go away. Do not make another character, no one wants you here tainting the game.
2. Those trying to say the ban policy is too harsh please feel free to join those in number 1.
That said keep up the good work Sace and please keep updating those numbers. Maybe a monthly update which details the number of pvp bots, player bots, and RMT related bots?
At this time we’d also like to inform you of updates to the ban policy. Over a year ago, we had implemented a three-strike policy. Now, in light of changes to the business plan and the immense increase in player population, the policy has been changed. Players caught associating with RMT or using third-party programs are immediately and permanently banned. Consequences for other offenses are decided on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of the GMs.
No offence, but it's about ****ings time you started to use the thing between your ears (no not your nose).
I haven't played on NCSoft servers since F2P went live because of the huge amount of botting idiots that botted until they got 2 warnings without any fear of getting banned.
Gratz on banning 15k bots, but you know they can just make new accounts, right Sace?
It's free to make an account, its free to play it, and all it does is generate adena.
Telling the community that you are banning 15k bots is not gonna deter the RMT crowd.
Charge 10 dollars for making a new account, and give them NCcoin for those 10 dollars.
Atleast that way if you ban 15k more bots, you will have gotten 150k dollars while doing it.
If you dont add some sort of cost to making accounts, your just gonna have to ban 15k bots each time, and they will just come back again, and again, and again, and....well you should have gotten the point by now.
You don't ban enough of the high level so-called PvP orientated botters. All server knows who they are yet you don't watch them closely enough. You need to have a small team (or at least 1 person per server) who is able to monitor them.
At the moment you are clearing the RMT bot trains keeping the low level areas cleaner so that new players don't come to the game and think ... no .. realise that the game is infested with bots. That new player then buys some runes and levels up by hand only to be met with bot infested XP zones when he awakens and be bullied/trashtalked by all the so-called pro players who did nothing but bot up well into the late 90s.
I'd like to see breakdown in the levels of the bots you banned. Like another said earlier in this thread - the well known players from the 'factor' clans on the server bot their ***** off on the same spots day after day and we all watch them do it because you are not targetting these players. They need to be made an example of and I'm an advocate for naming and shaming.
p.s to the guys saying PvE bots are not a problem, I am glad that you are having such trouble with the PvP bots because the vast majority of 3rd party PvP software users have botted up their levels. Both go hand in hand - you can't say you condone one yet reject the other, it is just hypocritical - both are ways of cheating. If you're botting up for PvP and are just running into everyone running automated CP/HP/Targetting/Dispelling etc then you are getting your just deserts - you have no right to come on the forums and complain about it.
Gratz on banning 15k bots, but you know they can just make new accounts, right Sace?
It's free to make an account, its free to play it, and all it does is generate adena.
Telling the community that you are banning 15k bots is not gonna deter the RMT crowd.
Charge 10 dollars for making a new account, and give them NCcoin for those 10 dollars.
Atleast that way if you ban 15k more bots, you will have gotten 150k dollars while doing it.
If you dont add some sort of cost to making accounts, your just gonna have to ban 15k bots each time, and they will just come back again, and again, and again, and....well you should have gotten the point by now.
Absolutely right, it's not like you ask for social security number in order to create an account as they do in Korea. And when account is banned, so is the number.
With current model of account creation, you asking for it to be abussed.
And how many out of these 15k accounts already done what they were intended for? I bet RTMers dont even care if you banned or deleted thousands of accounts they were never gonna use again.
I yet to see a single reason (except talking) why I or thousands of other actuall players shouldn't use zR. So far only benefits.
Thanks... many appreciate your efforts and others remember the days when the ban hammer was swung with great regularity. May our community thrive amongst this new campaign!
Ban Hammer swung with regularity.....Priceless!
I've read the same bull since C3...nothing ever happened...those that did manage to get banned by a rookie GM got reinstated and given rewards...because of the playtime they lost due to the ban.
Wake up sheeple...this type of propaganda is the one thing NC is good at...
Oh and giving infractions to their favs on the forums is the only other....kiss kiss.
I've read the same bull since C3...nothing ever happened...those that did manage to get banned by a rookie GM got reinstated and given rewards...because of the playtime they lost due to the ban.
Wake up sheeple...this type of propaganda is the one thing NC is good at...
Oh and giving infractions to their favs on the forums is the only other....kiss kiss.
Yes I bet there are still bots from 5 years back that are still in game and botting with no action taken against them.
Gratz on banning 15k bots, but you know they can just make new accounts, right Sace?
It's free to make an account, its free to play it, and all it does is generate adena.
Telling the community that you are banning 15k bots is not gonna deter the RMT crowd.
Charge 10 dollars for making a new account, and give them NCcoin for those 10 dollars.
Atleast that way if you ban 15k more bots, you will have gotten 150k dollars while doing it.
If you dont add some sort of cost to making accounts, your just gonna have to ban 15k bots each time, and they will just come back again, and again, and again, and....well you should have gotten the point by now.
Gratz on banning 15k bots, but you know they can just make new accounts, right Sace?
It's free to make an account, its free to play it, and all it does is generate adena.
Telling the community that you are banning 15k bots is not gonna deter the RMT crowd.
Charge 10 dollars for making a new account, and give them NCcoin for those 10 dollars.
Atleast that way if you ban 15k more bots, you will have gotten 150k dollars while doing it.
If you dont add some sort of cost to making accounts, your just gonna have to ban 15k bots each time, and they will just come back again, and again, and again, and....well you should have gotten the point by now.
Gratz on banning 15k bots, but you know they can just make new accounts, right Sace?
It's free to make an account, its free to play it, and all it does is generate adena.
Telling the community that you are banning 15k bots is not gonna deter the RMT crowd.
Charge 10 dollars for making a new account, and give them NCcoin for those 10 dollars.
Atleast that way if you ban 15k more bots, you will have gotten 150k dollars while doing it.
If you dont add some sort of cost to making accounts, your just gonna have to ban 15k bots each time, and they will just come back again, and again, and again, and....well you should have gotten the point by now.
RTMs get what? Around 2-3mil adena from countless level 27 bots.
They sell adena at around $30/100mil, this mean that script bot will have to earn aprox $15 to make it worth leveling. With $10 it's even more.
EDIT:
The problem with this model might be people who would otherwise be keen on trying out L2 for free, are more likely not to do so if they have to deposit something. And this is what NCwest will be very concerned about.
There will always be those that have more than others, drink the fine wines, ride the best mounts, hunt with the best weapons and wear the finest threads. Some will be allowed to dance in the taverns while others lay in the mud. It is with this we show are true colors, may your family crest not tarnish from your shameful acts.
I personally don't agree with the lack of a 3 strike rule, as all it is doing is hurting the players rather than the actual bots for rmt.
For one second, lets look at the reality of what the servers are:
over half of the server populations are from people who played on private servers
a LARGE majority of the player base does not have English as their primary language
accounts are free
players are spending more money on the truly free model than and with the nc item shop than the pay model before
typically, the common player from a private server has no clue about the rules on 3rd party softwares. this is blatantly obvious in the party chat of some pick up groups ive been in and in just talking with the new players on vent. I have also heard of some random bannings which looks as if a player was put in a queue to be banned on a specific date rather than instantly banning when actually finding them in violation of the rules. Implementing a 1 strike you're out policy is just going to eventually drive players away, especially players who buy things in the item mall only to get banned due to lacking knowledge of the new policy. if someone drops $500 on destiny packs etc only to get banned due to whatever method ncsoft decides to use, i highly doubt that player (who already spent $500) will come back and make a second character.
However, banning 15,000 bot accounts, who spent NOTHING in the nc store and is providing NOTHING to help ncsoft keep their employees employed and the servers up, are basically un-harmed as making a new 86+ bot train takes $0 and a week or 2. they will also go back to selling adena and items for RL cash. This hardcore method will weed out real players (program users or not) and do nothing against true bots. Even if the majority of players are legit (which I doubt), people play an mmo to hang with their friends and meet people. If their friends (unlegit or legit) begin disappearing due to being angry about a ban or angry their friends quit due to a ban, the population of live players will diminish to what it was on the pay model.
NCsoft is always ready to slap their players in the face with harsh penalties for cheating, but rather ignoring bots in general for years. Is everyone aware that NCsoft specifically didn't ban a handful of known RMT traders just so they could monitor who was purchasing from them and trading with them so that they could ban the player rather than the actual RMT service provider? This happened last chronicle before the GoD update. Makes you really appreciate the motives of a company right? However, look at the pay model of last chronicle. Where did their income come from?
This post isn't meant to insult NCsoft in any way. It is meant to provide a realistic look at the reality of what this game is.
In my opinion, the rules should be the following:
caught cheating/rmt/botting/etc u get 1 warning and a 15 day ban (no more 3 strike bs) (15 days is to ensure they will miss at least 1 castle siege/tw, possibly 2)
implement a paid service to un-ban an account ($100 for first time, $150 for second, $200 for third, etc)
NCsoft makes money, we retain actual player populations.
Before everyone jumps all over me for supporting bots, I don't. I've actively played the game since 2004, been in numerous top clans on teon/naia/chronos and now shillen, and have never once been banned. The main important thing for a 10 year old game is to retain it's population of players. I don't care if half the servers are unlegit users, at least they play live more than the bots who will take their place when they get banned and refuse to make another character. Also, ever since prelude, NCsoft has done NOTHING to combat item duping, rmt, botting to max level, etc. Does anyone have a solid reason as to how it will help change anything now? The players who did it are already lvl capped and where the other new players want to be. The people who abused the system for the last 8-9 years are basically untouched while the new players are insta banned at the first sign of fault.
In the end, yes botting sucks, yes rmt sucks, but its been here forever. Changing things now wont revert the situation back to normal, as it is beyond repair. NCsoft is here to make money, and them making money allows us to enjoy this game. A 1 time and your out is beyond asinine especially when a 3 strike rule was implemented right before. I would also like to add as well, the notification to the players about the policy change hasn't happened. You can't post a random thread and change your EULA (which no one reads) and expect people to be aware of this change. I had no clue about this until pm'ing Sace and asking about it since I couldn't find the thread on the 3 strike rule anymore.
NCsoft, you have an amazing product. You now have a healthy player base again. Why don't you try to keep it this time and treat this game as what it is, a 10 year old game which has had its own EULA ignored for the last 9 years. Stop pretending its anything else.
/flameshield up, as im not new to these forums and i know it will come.
I personally don't agree with the lack of a 3 strike rule, as all it is doing is hurting the players rather than the actual bots for rmt.
For one second, lets look at the reality of what the servers are:
over half of the server populations are from people who played on private servers
a LARGE majority of the player base does not have English as their primary language
accounts are free
players are spending more money on the truly free model than and with the nc item shop than the pay model before
typically, the common player from a private server has no clue about the rules on 3rd party softwares. this is blatantly obvious in the party chat of some pick up groups ive been in and in just talking with the new players on vent. I have also heard of some random bannings which looks as if a player was put in a queue to be banned on a specific date rather than instantly banning when actually finding them in violation of the rules. Implementing a 1 strike you're out policy is just going to eventually drive players away, especially players who buy things in the item mall only to get banned due to lacking knowledge of the new policy. if someone drops $500 on destiny packs etc only to get banned due to whatever method ncsoft decides to use, i highly doubt that player (who already spent $500) will come back and make a second character.
However, banning 15,000 bot accounts, who spent NOTHING in the nc store and is providing NOTHING to help ncsoft keep their employees employed and the servers up, are basically un-harmed as making a new 86+ bot train takes $0 and a week or 2. they will also go back to selling adena and items for RL cash. This hardcore method will weed out real players (program users or not) and do nothing against true bots. Even if the majority of players are legit (which I doubt), people play an mmo to hang with their friends and meet people. If their friends (unlegit or legit) begin dissapearing due to being angry about a ban or angry their friends quit due to a ban, the population of live players will deminish to what it was on the pay model.
NCsoft is always ready to slap their players in the face with harsh penalties for cheating, but rather ignoring bots in general for years. Is everyone aware that NCsoft specifically didn't ban a handful of known RMT traders just so they could monitor who was purchasing from them and trading with them so that they could ban the player rather than the actualy RMT service provider? This happened last chronicle before the GoD update. Makes you really appreciate the motives of a company right? However, look at the pay model of last chronicle. Where did their income come from?
This post isn't meant to insult NCsoft in any way. It is meant to provide a realistic look at the reality of what this game is.
In my opinion, the rules should be the following:
caught cheating/rmt/botting/etc u get 1 warning and a 15 day ban (no more 3 strike bs) (15 days is to ensure they will miss at least 1 castle siege/tw, possibly 2)
implement a paid service to unban an account ($100 for first time, $150 for second, $200 for third, etc)
NCsoft makes money, we retain actual player populations.
Before everyone jumps all over me for supporting bots, i dont. I've actively played the game since 2004, been in numerous top clans on teon/naia/chronos and now shillen, and have never once been banned. The main important thing for a 10 year old game is to retain it's population of players. I don't care if half the servers are unlegit users, at least they play live more than the bots who will take their place when they get banned and refuse to make another character. Also, ever since prelude, NCsoft has done NOTHING to combat item duping, rmt, botting to max level, etc. Does anyone have a solid reason as to how it will help change anything now? The players who did it are already lvl capped and where the other new players want to be. The people who abused the system for the last 8-9 years are basically untouched while the new players are insta banned at the first sign of fault.
In the end, yes botting sucks, yes rmt sucks, but its been here forever. Changing things now wont revert the situation back to normal, as it is beyond repair. NCsoft is here to make money, and them making money allows us to enjoy this game. A 1 time and your out is beyond assinine especially when a 3 strike rule was implemented right before. I would also like to add as well, the notification to the players about the policy change hasn't happened. You can't post a random thread and change your EULA (which no one reads) and expect people to be aware of this change. I had no clue about this until pm'ing Sace and asking about it since I couldnt find the thread on the 3 strike rule anymore.
NCsoft, you have an amazing product. You now have a healthy playerbase again. Why don't you try to keep it this time and treat this game as what it is, a 10 year old game which has had its own UELA ignored for the last 9 years. Stop pretending its anythign else.
/flameshield up, as im not new to these forums and i know it will come.
inb4 lolbot
inb4 unlegit
+1 to hyper :D i hope ncsoft read this. and take out that stupid new policy
+1 to hyper also and especially on "caught cheating/rmt/botting/etc u get 1 warning and a 15 day ban (no more 3 strike bs) (15 days is to ensure they will miss at least 1 castle siege/tw, possibly 2)"
I caught up botting and didn't know NCSoft change the BAN policy.
So i think i deserve a 2nd chance on that!
First of all I think your post in its entirety is great and paints a great look at things that possibly NC didn't think about.
My main problem with this is that NC Soft has changed their policy without notifying their player base first. This is a huge problem. One because of what it was changed to, and two how it was changed.
First it was changed from a 3 - Strike to a 1 - Strike. This paints a huge problem. I know NC Soft is looking for results, but they have gone way wrong here. I know people in games that have been wrongfully banned, and were eventually unbanned, or that were justly banned, but given a second chance. The thing is, is that this game requires a huge amount of time, and banning people in one shot without any possible appeal process is going to hurt more than help.
(For those that are going to tell me that NC has an appeal process, no they don't. Their service is a pathetic example of what a company should be. I myself have submitted a few tickets in the past few weeks only to have two different GM's reply with a generic response completely unrelated to my ticket.)
Second, NC Soft changing their policy without telling their player base, then banning tons of people, and then telling them is wrong. It is 100% wrong for a company to change policy without telling their player base prior to the change being instituted.
Also, no I wasn't banned in this way. No, I don't know people that were. This is a mere observation on my part, and why in my opinion it's wrong what NC has done. I admire their efforts to quell the bot, and in my opinion the worse RMT problem, but their efforts in doing so and their lack of transparency in their policy changes are unacceptable and unjust.
Changing a policy without telling your player base and then expecting them to live with the new consequences of it is extremely unethical, especially for a company dealing with the public.
1. If you want to play a game learn all the rules so you can continue to play the game, ignorance of a rule is no defense.
2. If you spend $500 on virtual game items don’t follow that up with cheating or RMT.
3. If you have to go to another company to make playing a game easier you are most likely cheating.
4. Just because someone else cheats doesn’t mean you should.
5. If you decide to cheat accept your punishment without all the forum/email drama. If you can’t do the time don’t do the crime.
6. Don’t cry about the situation not being fair, fact of the matter… nothing is fair. Automation of any tedious task will always be better than its human-centric equivalent.
7. As with all crime supply and demand drives our bot problem, look around and you will see many of us are the reason we have bots all over L2 and many other games.
8. The only true way to stop the bot problem is to allow assisted game play and give everyone access to all the in-game items.
This being said… move along… nothing to see here…. all is well… same as it
ever was… let the war on cheaters continue.
1. If you want to play a game learn all the rules so you can continue to play the game, ignorance of a rule is no defense.
2. If you spend $500 on virtual game items don’t follow that up with cheating or RMT.
3. If you have to go to another company to make playing a game easier you are most likely cheating.
4. Just because someone else cheats doesn’t mean you should.
5. If you decide to cheat accept your punishment without all the forum/email drama. If you can’t do the time don’t do the crime.
6. Don’t cry about the situation not being fair, fact of the matter… nothing is fair. Automation of any tedious task will always be better than its human-centric equivalent.
7. As with all crime supply and demand drives our bot problem, look around and you will see many of us are the reason we have bots all over L2 and many other games.
8. The only true way to stop the bot problem is to allow assisted game play and give everyone access to all the in-game items.
This being said… move along… nothing to see here…. all is well… same as it
ever was… let the war on cheaters continue.
IMHO OFC
This mindset is what killed Lineage 2 in it's P2P format. They need to work on solution that maintains the current population and continues to steal people away from private servers while effectively limiting the number of people botting. Simply banning everyone will eventually lead to people returning to 100x private servers, especially once they steal the GoD source coding.
How can you even speak about RMT? when u pushed DEWR to L2Store and I personally know ppl who bought 100+ destiny packs to OE r95 weapons...
and guess what they gonna do with those.. now when DEWR are not available..
HMMMMMMmmm..... use for PVE! YES FOR SURE!
The point is the real money must be earned by NCSoft, selling whatever they want. And if someone use the store to make money, that person can be caught. You know how much money could be spend to OE a weapon from +3 to +16 ? Someone said in forum about 1600 dollars... how much is that OE weapon to cost to make it worth ? 3000 dollars ? Yeah a piece of cake, must be a lot of people around ready to buy it !!
Not my bussiness, but when i see these kind of complaints, i only think about bot and someone who never buy NCcoins. Better complain about the high price of the NCcoins, so we all buy in a regular basis usefull things, supporting the game we all love.
2. If you spend $500 on virtual game items don’t follow that up with cheating or RMT.
It blows my mind how idiots like you can call real money trading cheating in the same breath where you then discuss ncsoft's cash shop. IT'S THE SAME ******* THING. Ncsoft IS REAL MONEY TRADING. Ncsoft getting the cash rather than someone else doesn't make it right, or fair. IF they really wanted to stop 90% of all real money trading through a third party, ALL THEYD HAVE TO DO IS MAKE ITEM SHOP ITEMS TRADABLE. THAT'S IT.
you guys talk about people botting to level 86+, they dont. They bot to 43 and reroll. The money they get strictly from the quests, and the gear from the path of awakening guarantee them a steady, uninterpretable income. That's where the amazing 15,000 banned accounts come from. That and level 20 spammers. Then they augment this income by trading game time cards for adena to higher level players. Ncsoft looks the otherway because they are getting their pound of flesh in this transaction SO WHY NOT LEGALIZE IT. WHY THIS CHARADE? LET US TRADE CASH SHOP ITEMS.
Put a small introductory fee on account creation, allow all cash shop boxes to be tradable. Problem ******* solved.
I personaly don't care how much accounts were banned or what new system you're using to fight bots. Such news are old, I heard them back in 2006. My problem is that you're doing it too slow or even wrong.
Bots are dealing damage to the game and community every week, day, hour, minute of their existance. How often do you ban them? Once per month by a large pack, like 15k accounts? They'll create 30k more next second.
New or returning from break players see them in starting locations and thinking things like "a lot of bots, nothing to do here" or "nothing changed since I played last time". Existing players think "I can't race with them in exp and money terms, should I join "dark side" to be a match for high lvl characters who cheated?".
There are new RMT spam bot everyday, so I assume you atleast ban those once a day, but we need it to banned right after it shouted.
Impossible?
NCSoft profits rised 4 times since GoD, hire new people, ****it! We need life GM 24\7 and not just one, we need several for the each server to constantly checking reports, exp locations, RMT shouts and do bans on the fly. We don't need your empty promises or work reports, we don't see progress ingame.
supposedly a ton of players got banned today for botting (not rmt bots or item sellers, but actual players who many of which purchased formt he l2store). glad to see ncsoft reads this thread.
It blows my mind how idiots like you can call real money trading cheating in the same breath where you then discuss ncsoft's cash shop. IT'S THE SAME ******* THING. Ncsoft IS REAL MONEY TRADING. Ncsoft getting the cash rather than someone else doesn't make it right, or fair.
Ah, Summers Eve here we are again. let me break this down for you since this concept seems too much for you to understand. NCSoft makes the rules here and of course they want the money to go to their bank accounts. Let's use alcohol for example… it is openly sold and taxed and widely accept in most of the States. However, in Utah it is not openly sold or widely accepted, it is almost treated like a controlled illegal drug. In Utah bars and restaurants, the time at which alcohol may be consumed is limited, and alcohol may not be sold any later than 1 AM under any circumstance.
So let’s not go back in forth, you seem smart, NCSoft calls the shots and they tell us how to play within their rules, there is nothing to debate. I am willing to bet you would run your company the way you want regardless of anyone crying on your forums.
First of all without a steady income of people any game would suck, and being free actually solves that problem.
Second, trading shop items will totally shift the ingame economy to the hands of the people with more money to spend than the skill to earn them.
Third, my mause driver IS a 3rd party software should I get banned?
Last but not least NCSoft is a company in the real world with real world workers that need to get payed for their time. And we are people who are enjoying the great game they have devised. Being unable to have fun with something that can not harm you in YOUR REAL LIFE, and more over fretting about it actually means LOU NEED TO GET OUT MORE. There is a whole world out there full of actual people that you are part of...
It's getting shameful how every thread has players complaining about bots and the lack of effort NCwest is putting into developing/maintaining a good game. We don't want numbers and words, we want results.
I have never seen so much open hate from a community towards a game company. Has anyone else seen an MMO forum with this much flames? 'cause I haven't, not even on private servers.
I don't know how they can be boasting about profit when the game is in the worse shape it's ever been. It's disgusting and it's discouraging to players of all types and more players are leaving each passing day. Eventually all that's going to be left are the botting 'top' clans, competing on who can script better and complaining that the servers are dead, just like before F2P launch.
If anyone from a clan gets banned, send the clan leader a mail with the names. If the clan leader gets banned, set up a clan notice telling the members that, so they know there's no point hanging around.
I try my best to keep my clan "clean", but even though I clearly tell our policy to recruits, some still seem to think I'm joking and cheat regardless.
I totally agree @Kagan. Lineage 2 is a great game, that's sure fun to play, but if the bots won't be dealt with sucessfully - there's gonna be bunch of disguisted we-are-having-fun players and top-super-farmed-plazma players that are botting. While people having fun is like 80% of community.
I love the compair to booze here.
You forgot in there the era of prohibition. In that time the Kennedy's and like made their fortunes. Same here. the vaule of real money to these bots far outweights the money NcSoft can make from this game and pay real GMs. The money is in the bots favor by a great deal or they wouldn't be here doing it.
As far as NcSoft banning, gogo. It took us 8 plus years to get here and some of us still play and try. As for the others, it is a part of the game.
Just wish stuff dropped on death again. Then the community would maybe take the hit for pk'ing them again. As it is now, it isn't worth dropping a bot train :(
It's getting shameful how every thread has players complaining about bots and the lack of effort NCwest is putting into developing/maintaining a good game. We don't want numbers and words, we want results.
I have never seen so much open hate from a community towards a game company. Has anyone else seen an MMO forum with this much flames? 'cause I haven't, not even on private servers.
I don't know how they can be boasting about profit when the game is in the worse shape it's ever been. It's disgusting and it's discouraging to players of all types and more players are leaving each passing day. Eventually all that's going to be left are the botting 'top' clans, competing on who can script better and complaining that the servers are dead, just like before F2P launch.
The population is down to 50% of what it was less than 3 months ago. And yet again, NC is blindly refusing to take some responsibility and fix their side of the house. It's easier to wave the ban flag in front of players' eyes, but hardly anyone has any remaining faith in L2 anymore.
I make a simple checklist:
1. Close Chronos and Naia for new accounts
2. Ban until the servers are normal, maybe even light
3. Open the servers for new accounts
4. Repeat once a month at least
you will not be able to stop the botters ,you can slow them down but you cant stop them u find a way to ban them they will find a way to get past it,
i mean you have vast amounts of people with nothing to do but spend countless hours to make new script's and edit software for your so called "means of detection" give up already nc u have been fighting a loosing battle in every ncsoft game not just lineage 2 and you think a ban will stop them .... no it wont they will make another account 2mins after they get banned i mean LOL the dark force is strong and dedicated
I don't know how they can be boasting about profit when the game is in the worse shape it's ever been. It's disgusting and it's discouraging to players of all types and more players are leaving each passing day. Eventually all that's going to be left are the botting 'top' clans, competing on who can script better and complaining that the servers are dead, just like before F2P launch.
Because there are no consequences for lying on the internet for the sake of PR. If you look at their quarterly reports, they are barely up 1% point. Maybe lineage 2 f2p was a great success, but it wasn't big enough to cover their shortcomings in other games. The next quarterly report will be even worse, as it is clear that real-paying players are not hanging around. We've had login issues for almost 2 months now. They know from 7 years of experience that most players wont put up with this.
Something i noticed on the Aion 3.0 press release:
In addition to the new business model and Aion 3.0 content, NCsoft will implement new RMT countermeasures to ensure a safe and secure gaming experience for all of its players. These highly effective, proprietary methods will specifically target fraudulent transactions, bots and spammers and the confiscation of goods that have been acquired through RMT activities so that players can experience a no hassle/no harassment MMO experience.
Wonder if the new and improved countermeasures will be added here as well!
Because there are no consequences for lying on the internet for the sake of PR. If you look at their quarterly reports, they are barely up 1% point. Maybe lineage 2 f2p was a great success, but it wasn't big enough to cover their shortcomings in other games. The next quarterly report will be even worse, as it is clear that real-paying players are not hanging around. We've had login issues for almost 2 months now. They know from 7 years of experience that most players wont put up with this.
Good point. I never thought I'd be one of the people saying this but Lineage 2 is dying.
Maybe NC is just trying to get as much out of it because they know what's coming.
supposedly a ton of players got banned today for botting (not rmt bots or item sellers, but actual players who many of which purchased formt he l2store). glad to see ncsoft reads this thread.
Ya they will come to regret that once they realize that the hardcore players keep this place going. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be enforcement of rules, but a one strike and you're done rule seems over-the-top.
Good point. I never thought I'd be one of the people saying this but Lineage 2 is dying.
Maybe NC is just trying to get as much out of it because they know what's coming.
People have been saying that L2 is dying for years now. For a time it really was near death, but this is not currently the case.
I don't know what some of you pessimests are going on about, but on my server I personally see a lot of people I know both friends and enemies getting banned left and right each day. There a less parties going around, no more epic zerg pvp. It's kindof boring actually. This game itself is boring after awakening. The same spots at each 5 level range used to be broken by huge fights over these crowded areas, now clan wars have turned into ban wars and exping is becoming more and more safe and more and more boring.
At this rate I wonder what castle siege turnouts are going to be? Just a bunch of bad L2 players with no english skills I guess with a few decent players left in between here and there.
I'm not saying I'm for botting, but jeez... top pvp clans shrink more and more and they spend more time on alts spamming the bot report button than actually pvping. But this is what was cried for years so carry on.
People have been saying that L2 is dying for years now. For a time it really was near death, but this is not currently the case.
I know. I've told this exact same thing to dozens of players. But this time I actually feel like it might be with so many factors in play like the obvious botting, NCsoft making business decisions to put OP items in the Store and several new MMOs (and other games) about to be released. Anyway, I'll try not to get too dreary and wait to see how things go.
I don't know what some of you pessimests are going on about, but on my server I personally see a lot of people I know both friends and enemies getting banned left and right each day. There a less parties going around, no more epic zerg pvp. It's kindof boring actually. This game itself is boring after awakening. The same spots at each 5 level range used to be broken by huge fights over these crowded areas, now clan wars have turned into ban wars and exping is becoming more and more safe and more and more boring.
At this rate I wonder what castle siege turnouts are going to be? Just a bunch of bad L2 players with no english skills I guess with a few decent players left in between here and there.
I'm not saying I'm for botting, but jeez... top pvp clans shrink more and more and they spend more time on alts spamming the bot report button than actually pvping. But this is what was cried for years so carry on.
This is actually hilarious. For so many reasons. Top clans should be completely wiped if they're ruining the game for others. And if these "bad players with no English skills" take over, at least there will be some kind of competition and not just automation of the game. The only thing I could agree with you on is that the PvE is boring after Awakening.
This is actually hilarious. For so many reasons. Top clans should be completely wiped if they're ruining the game for others. And if these "bad players with no English skills" take over, at least there will be some kind of competition and not just automation of the game. The only thing I could agree with you on is that the PvE is boring after Awakening.
Yea, but what you don't take into account is the fact that NCSoft has failed for years to block these programs, and that eventually drives people to use them in order to compete with others who use them. I think the game would be 1000 times better if these programs were blocked, but banning some here and there doesn't fix the root issue. Instead we still have the programs buy lose the ppl that get banned plus probably the close friends of theirs that lose interest soon after. At least with a 3 strike it would give ppl pause to rethink what they were doing before losing possibly years of work.
Yea, but what you don't take into account is the fact that NCSoft has failed for years to block these programs, and that eventually drives people to use them in order to compete with others who use them. I think the game would be 1000 times better if these programs were blocked, but banning some here and there doesn't fix the root issue. Instead we still have the programs buy lose the ppl that get banned plus probably the close friends of theirs that lose interest soon after. At least with a 3 strike it would give ppl pause to rethink what they were doing before losing possibly years of work.
But atm they can just create a new account if they get banned. 1-86 is effortless with mentor/Iss Buffs and they are the hardcore players of the server, so they'll certainly have no issues getting to 86, especially with programs. After that it's just party botting as usual.
The 3-strike system worked well when the game was difficult to play and players grinded for years to reach those levels like you stated (their characters were more valuable, etc). But atm I don't believe this is the case. Especially not on the newers servers where a lot more of the players halt their leveling after 86. And in terms of Adena, there's always the alts (bots) at Sel Mahum (and other places), the purchasing of Adena, etc
It seems as if they are getting bored of this process (being banned and re-botting another char). And now blaming NCsoft for forcing them to bot all this time.
We’d like to share some updates with you about our efforts in reducing the population of bots (third-party program users) and RMT (Real Money Trade) users on our servers. In the past months since the launch of the Truly Free business model, hundreds of thousands of accounts have been created, and our playerbase has grown extensively. As some of you know, many of those newly created accounts turned out to be bots or RMT-related. The past two months have been a real challenge, but we are starting to see some major improvements.
In the past weeks our efforts in this campaign against bots have begun to yield positive results. We have gained more staff dedicated to bot hunting, we have been finding new methods of bot detection, and great improvements have been made to account security and the account creation process. Thanks to these changes, we are now able to catch and ban RMT accounts early on, and their activity has reduced significantly.
On that note, we realize that the amount of RMT activity we’re seeing means that there are players in Lineage II who are funding it. We’d like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that buying or selling Adena, items or accounts for real money is not only a bannable offense, but also negatively impacts everyone on the server. Using third-party programs to automate game play or bypass game systems is also a bannable offense. We hope to convince all players to help maintain a good game experience for all by playing the game as it was designed, and not by cheating. Lineage II is a game where you build your reputation around your character and your actions. For your own sake, don't ruin it by cheating: you will get caught.
At this time we’d also like to inform you of updates to the ban policy. Over a year ago, we had implemented a three-strike policy. Now, in light of changes to the business plan and the immense increase in player population, the policy has been changed. Players caught associating with RMT or using third-party programs are immediately and permanently banned. Consequences for other offenses are decided on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of the GMs.
As always, if you suspect someone of using a 3rd-party program the best thing to do is use the dedicated Bot Report button from the Action window in-game, or to submit an online ticket (https://lineage2.custhelp.com/app/ask/) on our support site, providing the offender’s server name, character name, and location. We are taking this issue very seriously and it is a top priority every day.
While our progress continues, we are also finding and banning third-party software users as well, with increasing success. In the past two weeks, we have banned over 15,000 RMT-related accounts, and over 2,000 accounts for third-party software usage. In such a large player population it may be difficult to see the results, but as we continue to ramp up our coverage, the word is out that cheaters’ days are numbered.
As our efforts continue, we are happy to see the server populations thrive with genuinely devoted players who enjoy Lineage II as the game was designed to be played. The player community is growing closer, enriching the game for all.
no offense to ur "methods". but they dont mean diddly squat when u ban all the botter but the top clans on the server. or the toons to glitch our spezian instance. you give them 7 day bans. we wanna see real results, ban the lvl 95 toons who bot in faires. ban the toons to gltiched spezian. all ur efforts do is prove that the top botting clans on the servers, IE magmeld. Dark vengeance clan, is that they can get away with any they want, and all u do SACE is give them a 7 day, i can care less about any other clans on the magmeld server that bot, why cuz there only botting to catch up to the primo clans on the server such and dark vengeance, stop tryin to toot ur horn when ur really not doing ur job fully, dont tell us what we want to hear. cuz for all i know ur apart of the problem not the solution.
the fact that theres been 6 pages of complaints about ur topic sace, and that u haven even replied to one comment, just shows u really dont care about the players in this game, you say what u wanna say u ban who u wanna ban, nothin more. GF but ur stupid thread really isnt fooling anyone
dude did you finally woke up from your l2 = bot attitude?!? This is awesome! Welcome back :D
and to NCSoft please take into consideration Hyperlite post, there is so much truth in all he is saying
also read this carrefully
I don't know what some of you pessimests are going on about, but on my server I personally see a lot of people I know both friends and enemies getting banned left and right each day. There a less parties going around, no more epic zerg pvp. It's kindof boring actually. This game itself is boring after awakening. The same spots at each 5 level range used to be broken by huge fights over these crowded areas, now clan wars have turned into ban wars and exping is becoming more and more safe and more and more boring.
At this rate I wonder what castle siege turnouts are going to be? Just a bunch of bad L2 players with no english skills I guess with a few decent players left in between here and there.
There you have 2 players who have been playing for years "telling their side of the story" (sorry english :<) and those guys are right!
I don't want to have to play against the people I see crying all over the forums for bot hunt, man this will be soooooooooooo boring :/ I want to play against the ppl that used to bot because they know the game or didn't bot, I just want good competition, not farming noobs who have no clue what they are talking about
But atm they can just create a new account if they get banned. 1-86 is effortless with mentor/Iss Buffs and they are the hardcore players of the server, so they'll certainly have no issues getting to 86, especially with programs. After that it's just party botting as usual.
The 3-strike system worked well when the game was difficult to play and players grinded for years to reach those levels like you stated (their characters were more valuable, etc). But atm I don't believe this is the case. Especially not on the newers servers where a lot more of the players halt their leveling after 86. And in terms of Adena, there's always the alts (bots) at Sel Mahum (and other places), the purchasing of Adena, etc
It seems as if they are getting bored of this process (being banned and re-botting another char). And now blaming NCsoft for forcing them to bot all this time.
What level are you? How much is your gear worth? From 90 onward the grind is definitely there, and losing several billion in gear/skill OE/etc is very difficult to replace. No, it's not hard to be some random 86 toon with event R grade, but being a toon that can compete with the top players is very expensive and time consuming.
The facts are these:
TW armor 120x3 will cost ~1.5 bil to make
Apo Wep w/ 1 SA & 300 will cost ~ 700 mil to make
Skill enchants are several million per click, so ~ several hundred million to get multiple skill to +6 or better considering failures (you don't even want to know what the click cost of a mastery is).
Old Boss Jewels not absolutely necessary now but prob ~ 1.5 bil for 4/5 and 3 bil if you want 5/5
+5 -1 tats are roughly 30 mil ea. Need 30 of them so 900 mil adena
Attribute hat is anywhere from 200-400 mil.
So let's say it's roughly 5 bil to gear up like that, but in case I over estimated anything I will chip a bil off of it and then another bil figuring ppl farm some stuff. So at current player market rate adena RMTs @ no lower than 300 USD per bil. So if someone has to acquire 3 bil adena then it is 900 USD.
Then you have the money that was spent by many to +10/+15 their weps. 60 day card ~21.00 USD and = 2400 NCCoin. Say ppl purchased on avg 10 packs at 3600 NCCoin each = 36,000 NCCoin. Which is Fifteen 60 Day time cards, which comes to 315 USD.
So we're at a bare minimum of 1200 USD to reequip a competitive toon, plus the harder grind past 90, plus 3 subs/noble, plus the cost of runes (which I did not calculate for this).
The point of this is to show you that people are not going to want to keep coming back and shelling out tons of money for this game and the other alternative is many months of farming and playing the market before you can compete in a top clan again (or running bot trains until they can afford all the above). Yes, botting/rmt etc is against the rules, but NCSoft has done nothing to stop the programs from connecting in the first place and then selectively smacks players that were just trying to keep up. The 3 strikes was a fair way to go about things, but now we're back to random perma-bans in order to appease the loud minority that posts on here, and that will eventually lead to the endless posts about how dead the game has become. If they really want to fix this they hire someone that can actually block these programs or recode the game so it doesn't communicate unnecessary information in the packets that go back and forth.
On a final note, there are also the people that nostromo for hours on end while they read a book or watch a movie. This doesn't end in a ban for them, but it's the same thing in reality. Also, Hyperlites suggestion of 1 warning and then being forced to pay to get unbanned could work too. Though the real solution won't be found until you can block the vast majority of programs from even connecting and communicating with the client/servers.
...
On a final note, there are also the people that nostromo for hours on end while they read a book or watch a movie. This doesn't end in a ban for them, but it's the same thing in reality.
All what you stated about the cost of a new toon is true, yet the top players who did get banned did start up other toons and do all that over again (some more than once) and this has happened since before GoD. Cmon, you know this. And several of these top players are willing to spend that much to stay on top and there's been so many cases of this (there are some going on right now).
Now if it's a question of fair vs unfair, I'm not siding with NCsoft. But Lineage 2 has never been fair due to several factors, not just botting. And players who've cheated the system for such a long time have been given several warnings, years of warnings. They've done it knowing the risks and continued after the policy change. I think both NC and "the minority" as you call them are sick of it and that's why the bans are being given so mercilessly, or as you call them "unfairly".
I quoted that last paragraph to show that the botters did have an alternative. But they chose to take a risk.
And you're entitled to your opinion of course, with respect. But I don't think it matters to NC at all. Unfortunately, they only want to keep players so that they make profit. And imo, these bans are part of that profit because of the people remaking their toons.
And you're entitled to your opinion of course, with respect. But I don't think it matters to NC at all. Unfortunately, they only want to keep players so that they make profit. And imo, these bans are part of that profit because of the people remaking their toons.
I think this does have something to do with it, but I also think it will backfire eventually. The game is more expensive to play now then when it was subscription based, and I just don't see people coming back to remake toons. Once maybe, but I really don't see it happening beyond that for the vast majority of people banned.
This is the thread where every bot comes to cry :).
I love to make noob cry in game, I love to hear them call me "bot" because they are just bad and I can roll over them like they are nothing
WTB PRO PVP SERVER / COMMUNITY
Edit: well... sorry about my post... I think I'm done with trying anything here and also I don't have any more ideas/suggestions but maybe other people can think of something good, just keep posting them
No. Noone is forcing you to do that. Ppl decide to use those programs on their own.
They themselves are responsible for using them, and for their own ban.
Please dont come to this forum and cry about being banned, ppl. This is not where ppl care about top clan's botters getting banned. There is another forum for that.
And the game will more than likely stay alive even if all the top cheater clans ban eachother. Sure, there might not be as much pvp anymore, but the servers will still be running.
yeah pity me for wanting worthy competition... on the other hand your post kinda cheer me up a bit
let's hope you are right and the game will not die when all the ppl that have been botting for 5+ years quit for good (reading this phrase should make you think a bit no? ok nevermind me xd)
Im reading through this and most of the private server scrubs (no offence) don't know what will happen to this game when they start banning people with a one chance policy.Have fun with another dead game. Lineage 2 once again had potential only to be struck down by NCsoft. Hyperlite hit the nail on the head with what shuold be happening to this game.
I have a bit of a different viewpoint on this (I think).
Firstly instant ban isn't it's self terrible, but the implementation was. It should've been at least a warning when the rules changed then ban if caught a second time, not just instant ban.
3 strikes policy only came in a couple of years ago and when it did all the botters cheered because it's just a green flag to bot away then stop when you get caught.
Botting makes the game boring, I don't know if anyone remembers L2's good days back in C3-C4 just before 80% of the population began to bot? The more that botted the harder it was to find groups or pvp since people would just auto log and bot with their own party instead of grouping.
High Five became miles easier to XP and bans came in strong. People made groups and stopped botting their ***** off because they didn't need to (initially).
Now it's back to the mindless grind and needing to bot to keep up. Bots win at pvp and bots win in pve. If you don't impose harsh instant bans on bots again it'll get back to C5 when everyone bots and the game is dull and boring.
I'm not saying I'm for botting, but jeez... top pvp clans shrink more and more and they spend more time on alts spamming the bot report button than actually pvping. But this is what was cried for years so carry on.
Blah blah. Same **** different chronicle. People have been saying this for years. A "top" player gets banned and everyone cries that the game will now be more boring with him. If L2 needs pro cheaters to be interesting then it is definitely time to move on.
I personally see a lot of people I know both friends and enemies getting banned left and right each day.
top pvp clans shrink more and more.
Just two words: GOOD RIDDANCE.
The so-called "top clans", on any server, are so full of themselves that they think they're really worth something and the game will never be the same without them.
Let me break this to you: no one will miss them, ever.
However, someone else soon will bot their way up to the top, and start to call others "scrubs" and "non-factors", then they will leave out of boredom or get mass-banned... and history will keep repeating itself, over and over...
I don't know what some of you pessimests are going on about, but on my server I personally see a lot of people I know both friends and enemies getting banned left and right each day. There a less parties going around, no more epic zerg pvp. It's kindof boring actually. This game itself is boring after awakening. The same spots at each 5 level range used to be broken by huge fights over these crowded areas, now clan wars have turned into ban wars and exping is becoming more and more safe and more and more boring.
At this rate I wonder what castle siege turnouts are going to be? Just a bunch of bad L2 players with no english skills I guess with a few decent players left in between here and there.
I'm not saying I'm for botting, but jeez... top pvp clans shrink more and more and they spend more time on alts spamming the bot report button than actually pvping. But this is what was cried for years so carry on.
You know when the Ban hammer has hit because you're able to wade through Aden to the GK, instead of clicking on invisible afk toons every square centimeter.
Most 'Top Player's' have RMT or Botted or have used something not legal to get where they were. Unless Lineage 2 is your job and you play in excess of 10 hours a day, most people have actual jobs and families to take care of and can only put in that much time into a hobby.
The more it caters to casuals the more money they'd make. The Harmony and Tauti updates are already promising faster Xping with more XP in older zones and new instances.
If you'd look at both these updates, the game will be centering on it's core values that makes L2 so unique amongst other MMOs. PvP, Politics, Sieges and Overenchanting (almost a hint of gambling there, Pachinko like).
I've stopped playing official after (unsuccessfully) trying to log-in 301 times in
a row.
I had even started a contest-thread for the highest "due to high server
traffic" score.
The last time I've managed to log on Naia I found lots of botted dwarves
around, no <85 party match rooms, almost no buying shops and lots of people
complaining.
From time to time I come back on forums to check the situation, smelling how
bad the air is.
Not that after GoD I'll ever come back to L2 official servers, not after they
totally destroyed 80% of what L2 used to be.
Seeing Sace giving numbers like they've found the Holy Grail for fighting bots
is mostly hilarious, but also a bit sad. Who's going to take them seriously
anymore?
There's a GoD thing that does everything to make you rush to top lvls so that
you can realize you're a bogey, if you dont buy NC Coins.
Anyway....who can give me updated news about the bot situation? I'm
curious, because this thread itself sounds like a milestone on the way to win
against bots. And yet I could never believe a NCSoft employee's words, I'm
sure you understand me.
Seeing how many bots are around and how many 1-20 / 1-40 bots pop up every hours it would be interesting to see the numbers of bots that are untouched and the amount of Adena they farmed + RMT'ed.
Do you realize that the price of 1b Adena on SEVERAL rmt sites went down ~ 40% since f2p ?
What does that tell you about the botting activity?....
And on top of that all that Sace can tell us (IF we get any respond to our massive posts + screenshots + video's + comlplaints about auto respond / lol unqualified help) is the typical ******** about "we investigate" "submit a ticket" blablabla lies.
No one of NCWest has the guts to post here about how broken it is in reality nor to admit that they need help of NCKorea to stop this madness
The only policy enforcement I see is silence those who speak truth on forums. I'd also like to put across that I never accused anyone of botting in another thread. So posting an image makes me guilty of a crime? Terrible treatment of the player community by the staff. I swear the only reason why the rules are so draconian on the boards is because they company cannot control much in game. Confidential, my ...
I've played enough games and worked enough jobs to see the level of commitment a company has for its relationship with it's community. Take for example ArenaNet devs and staff do a lot to make strong relationships with the player community. The devs never shut down their customers when it comes to issues such as bugs, RMT, and bots. In fact they encourage open discussion of such topics in order to stopped and prevent the spread of things against EULA. This makes for a better game environment, the people will listen and respect the rules if the company does its best to make the game the best experience for the players.
Tbh L2 is broken already. I don't expect L2 to become a Guild Wars or TERA. What I do want to let the GM's know that I want to voice my opinions rather than just rack up post count by spam and flame.
Bot enforcement/elimination is working. The cause is in question. When Aion went Free to play, and some new games came out at the same time, server populations and bots dropped.
Back a few years when Aion first went live, almost all the bots left. I know. I got Zariche at that time.. and spent several days trying to find 1 bot to kill with it. Failed. They were all gone. They came back though. NC finally banned most of my favourite reliable bots after the last disastrous merger.
To Melkhyn: December and January were terrible months on Chronos. Logging in was hopeless, but I had fun. Played several other interesting and wonderful MMOs I never had time to try while L2 was playable.
The situation though has changed. It's rare now to see populations above Normal, even on Chronos. Lots of people I know, came back to look at Goddess and left again. Others have just left. NC might have kept some people if they had not made the mistake of merging 5 servers in Chronos, or it might not matter, but the game is now playable.
A good Data Base team could maybe have split Chronos into 2 or more playable servers. No point now, and NC had neither that team, nor that plan. Letting toons move to another server for free was not a real fix, not for most of us players.
How can you tell that bot banning is working? Watch just outside the Museum lobby for new toons. I used to see male/female dwarfs pour out of there, 10 per minute one time I counted. Certainly more than 5. Dark Elves are popular too. All using one script, except for the sex option, are identical twins. All had names a Cat wrote walking on the keyboard, all ran the same script. They moved the same places and did it with the same timing. And those are the obvious ones who failed my bot test, not the ones who used other scripts or were inconclusive on the test. Last couple of times I checked, they were not coming out.
Same in the Ruins of Ye Sagira where the bots run scripts to level to 20. If you spend time there, watching, you used to be able to spot bots easily. Either the bots have realized they were being obvious, and improved their scripts (some of these guys are very smart programmers. Too bad they are not making games, instead of spoiling them for others.) or they are gone.
The change of the top D grade weapon to unidentified and the reduction of the income for quests 1 to 41 to 1% of what it was, has hurt the RMT botters. It's also hard on real new players. The 3 to 4 million adenas from doing that though is trivial for long time players with lvl 80+ toons. The income on an Awakened toon is much higher. Of course, it's hard to bot the Awakened toons.
That doesn't mean all the bots are gone. They are there. Most seem to be lvl 76 to 85 and farming Mentee Coins. NC has/had a policy that if a bot was found in a party, all the toons in the party were inspected to be sure it was not a bot group. They need to do that with Mentors and their mentees when 1 is found to be a bot. And those mentors need to be watched. Can't prove they are part of a bot/RMT operation, but checking them for new bot mentees every couple of days would be good. Any that are caught with 4 or more bots should be checked to see what use they make of their coins. The stuff from the coins can't be sold or traded, but those items can be used on tradeable gear which can be. The +15 R grade weapons, and +6 R grade armor made with farmed EWR or EAR scrolls from Mentor Guide will if tradeable be a future source of RMT adena.
If there is anything to be sceptical about Sace's initial announcement it would be that the numbers are too low. Spam bots are still in most communities on Chronos (I only play there, but assume the other servers are the same), as are those which promote RMT web sites with the mail, the party system, bogus stores, etc.
Some people watch the online price of adena and try to guess what it's rises and falls mean. They'd have more luck betting on horse or dog races. It's supply and demand, and does indicate which is winning.. but an increase in supply can mean more, easier botting to get adena, more people quitting and selling out to RMT sites.. It also can mean no customers buying. The numbers are meaningless.
What is more interesting is that RMT spammers have added '100% safe' to their promotions. Keep in mind what exactly this means. It's 100% safe for them. They probably live and work in places where this sort of activity is legal, possibly encouraged. There bots, spammers and delivery toons are already being regularly banned. It's a cost of doing business. They get your money. You get your adena. NC if they have reason to suspect bans your toon, and all of those who are connected to that adena. It's a time consuming matter to track down all the toons the adena passes through (called money laundering) but they have the information. Also, some RMTs are not immediately shut down, but are used to trap players buying adena. 100% safe probably doesn't apply to the players buying adena, even if the RMT operators need to tell that lie now to get customers.
So don't claim that NC is not making an effort, or being successful, in getting rid of bots and RMT. They are, despite their poor track record in the past. Bot groups I report for 6 months to a year before the last merger, started taking dinner breaks, sleeps?, bios? .. it didn't last though, they got caught again and a 3rd time and disappeared. I won't claim that NC has caught all the bots, cheats and people buying / selling adena. But they get enough to keep the damage under control and make the game playable again, for those here to play, not those who bot, cheat and make real money here.
I have said nothing here that NC and the botters/RMT people don't already know. My secrets for spotting Bots remain my secrets. If the botters don't know them, good. If NC wants to know them, their GMs have talked to me before about bots and RMTs I have reported. They know where to find me.
Play safe, have fun. Don't believe all the lies you can read on the Forums, or in game.
What ever NcSoft is doing to prevent bots is not working.I said that and explained why is not working and i think i got banned for that.
The problem is not the bots that have a 20 lvl character or a lvl 70 character.The bots that ruin the server are the ones that have lvl 97+.
The situation on Magmeld server is unbelievable.
Its not about 1 actual botter its about on entire clan.
One party of a certain clan protects the high lvl area from enemy's or player's that like to mess around whit bots.And another 3-4 parties bot their "excuse me" off.
And to be honest that is not even 40% of our problem.They bot they reach lvl 99 so what its ok,we will get there eventually.
THE REAL PROBLEM IS AND I HOPE A FREAKING GM WILL SEE AND ACKNOWLEDGES THIS AT LAST.
They use the specific program to wright script for PvP.
Like if you target their healer in PvP automatically all of the(high lvl 97+ bots)DD'S in that group simultaneously attack you.
And to be honest that doesn't bother me that much either.
Not even when they use the SAME PROGRAM to spot your healer in mass pvp where there are like 90+ ppl.Imagine this 40 players that use a program to cheat fighting 120 players and the only character's that drop first are guess who?YES THE HEALER'S.They have such great eyes that all healer's from every group goes down first and the rest of the ppl witch are not healers are still alive or some of the lower equipped dead from the aoe.
QUESTION SACE.Are you guys aware of this program and that its used in this manner?
Ofcourse you are,do you have a way to stop this madness?Ofcourse you don't.
What we like is for the staff member's not to lie to their customer's,speak the truth and don't freaking ban people for speaking their mind.
I know the truth hurts but you guys trying to hide it makes it worse.
We appreciate the effort.
Yes we appreciate the effort BUT this is for all: NEVER accept a mail with money from a clannie who accept to borrow you some money! If he is catch at RMT or bot you will be banned or turned nacked by NCSoft. You will be considered as a RMT too because you got a benefit from that money. This happened to my friend. No ban just because no prededents. Be carefull all with trades buy at shop only! This is what I think. Never trade an item ask the seller, even he is a friend or a clannie to open a shop at market!
....THE REAL PROBLEM IS AND I HOPE A FREAKING GM WILL SEE AND ACKNOWLEDGES THIS AT LAST.
They use the specific program to wright script for PvP.
Like if you target their healer in PvP automatically all of the(high lvl 97+ bots)DD'S in that group simultaneously attack you.
And to be honest that doesn't bother me that much either.
Not even when they use the SAME PROGRAM to spot your healer in mass pvp where there are like 90+ ppl.Imagine this 40 players that use a program to cheat fighting 120 players and the only character's that drop first are guess who?YES THE HEALER'S.They have such great eyes that all healer's from every group goes down first and the rest of the ppl witch are not healers are still alive or some of the lower equipped dead from the aoe.....
I have seen people say this for as long as I am reading this forum. You are correct, PVP progs are game spoilers. Especially because the handplayer will lag sooooooo much that he can't even try to defend himself. I fight with a clan I know is not using radar and that fight is fun. I get 1 of the 'top' clans with the same amount of people, and I can't move until I am death on the ground. ANYWAY, this has been said also many times.
I wish a GM will tell you something specific about what they are doing. But I think you ll have better chances get in answer on: "When will you sell the party hat in the NC Store"
Soon we will have GW2 and then the servers will become a desert anyway. Lots of space and 3 people can take a castle :D
no offense to ur "methods". but they dont mean diddly squat when u ban all the botter but the top clans on the server. or the toons to glitch our spezian instance. you give them 7 day bans. we wanna see real results, ban the lvl 95 toons who bot in faires. ban the toons to gltiched spezian. all ur efforts do is prove that the top botting clans on the servers, IE magmeld. Dark vengeance clan, is that they can get away with any they want, and all u do SACE is give them a 7 day, i can care less about any other clans on the magmeld server that bot, why cuz there only botting to catch up to the primo clans on the server such and dark vengeance, stop tryin to toot ur horn when ur really not doing ur job fully, dont tell us what we want to hear. cuz for all i know ur apart of the problem not the solution.
Humm... d'ont worry lots of times they punish innocent players and leave bots in game :D D'ONT TRADE AND DON'T RECEIVE MAILS WITH ITEMS BE CAREFULL :eek:
Once again, those of us that are (or were, some of us are not playing for now) legit, we now have to fear a ban for simply joining a party with a random that may or may not be a player that uses 3rd party programs. With this one-strike rule, imagine the scenario:
Legit Player: LFP (insert what kind here)
Botter in disguise: NP lets go!
Legit player plays for a while and then without knowing, the other party member uses 3rd party programs and simply watches his toon do its thing. Yes there are many many people that bot and watch!
Imagine the ban hammer then. YOU, the legit gamer, would also get banned for simply joining a party. Noone knows who is legit or a cheater anymore, and with a one-strike rule, the ban hammer can easily swing in the wrong direction.
there was a huge ban wave today. a few of my friends got banned(yes they did deserve it). however the chances are that if you get banned its not because you hanged with the botters. its because you were botting yourself.
NCsoft is a lot of things. but its not ban happy.... its just doenst fly with their bussines...
@omg, I thank you for your candor. I can only hope the entire L2 community can improve themselves to the point where threads like the one we are posting on, are no longer relevent.
Imagine the ban hammer then. YOU, the legit gamer, would also get banned for simply joining a party. Noone knows who is legit or a cheater anymore, and with a one-strike rule, the ban hammer can easily swing in the wrong direction.
Wanna know the irony of this? The GMs will say that it is obvious that someone in your party is botting and you should know that. And yet if you were to present that same evidence that is obvious to you, it would not be enough to get that person banned.
Well said. The onus seems to be upon the individual gamer to not get banned, yet the legit players are being set up to fail due to cheaters posing as legitimate players, and we all know the term "guilt by association". Time will fix this. Lets hope some responsible individuals will fess up, and leave the game for good.
Harnak Underground Ruins, Upper Monastery of Silence, Lair of Antharas. GMs need to be checking these twice a week. There's full parties of bots in those areas every night. Bot reporting is not gonna do it. The bots hide in areas that active players do not frequent. Be proactive GMs.
Wanna know the irony of this? The GMs will say that it is obvious that someone in your party is botting and you should know that. And yet if you were to present that same evidence that is obvious to you, it would not be enough to get that person banned.
Dunno, think many of these 'legits' banned by association are probably getting power leveled by a bot. Then they get banned and they QQ everywhere to get back their account.
I think not just report a bot because without proof via software that comprove character as bot can not banish the alleged bot.
The rules of the game, called EULA protects the bots.
Although they are easily seen by performing repetitive actions and play for a long time without stopping for one second to perform activities necessary human, it seems that there is a barrier between the powers of the GM and the "ban button".
For some time now that there are promises of improvements against bots, they are related to different development (I believe), it seems that the developer team responsible for selling items and equipment in or l2store l2galleria is much more efficient than the antibots developer team.
Every month we received new itens in store and every year a new rule against bots is created.
The problem of free play for is the creation of new bots for free.
Create a symbolic fee for each new account created and remove the current "trully free," would be bad. But on the other hand, much of bots will not be created, it's very good, on my point of view.
I'm just a player, I'm not the money administer of NCEast, I don't know not having bots is good or not, the truth is that if you are good with bots (financially) why risk if it would be good without them?
This is not about "bots" per say, But I sure am sick and tired of seeing nothing but adena sell chat spam in almost every town,, it makes it just about near impossible to even read things other than the spam,, I have put in a petition a few times and all I get back is that "we will look into it and see if there is evidence to support this ",,, well my friends I said in the last petition I did is that all a GM has to do is actually "Log In Game" and see for themselves that this spamming is going on ,, it is real easy to spot. I am not sure about anyone else but this is getting old very fast. :/