When it comes to finally awakening, I just have a few questions. Are summoners actually viable end game? I know leveling hasn't really shown need for my pet yet. Im almost at 40 and still debating on which to go. Just wanted some personal opinions on why you chose nuke or summoner.
Summoners can solo lvl without resting much, while wizard has to rest abit in between grind unless u have a mana recharger with u. But at 85+ u will mostly be partying half the time grinding the dungeons.
Summoners are more support/debuffer for ur pet which are the main dps.
Well i have to say this...i have a lvl 86 Feoh Wizard ( always loved Nukers) but without ISS buffs...she is weak.....BUT...a Wynn Summoner now, can Tank in Harnaks Underground Ruins and do it with ease. After seeng what a summoner is capable of...i wish now i would have went Wynn Summoner...this is just "MY" opinion though
Wynn summoners are capable of taking a lot of damage and doing a lot of damage.
Feoh Wizards do retarted sums of damage. I've been magic crit before for 29k by a Feoh Wizard.
But then again, this archer in my party hit someone for 1.2million on harnak 3 before during a 7v7. I called BS until the museum updated and showed it.
AngeliqueJuliet
Summoners are more support/debuffer for ur pet which are the main dps.
QUOTE]
On summoner you depend on your summon, and on your marks.
If you lose all your summon, there is a great chance that you will end up dead.
Is you land all marks and remove them, you'll cause a huge ammount of damage.
You also have a mark to restore your MP, so your better off in saving MP for healing your summons and extra marks.
As for Feoh, you can easely find out witch is the best "element" to kill something, just by changing your elemental stance.
Lots of nukes, high powered AoE nukes.
Problem? 1, you run out of MP quite fast, not even your Ultimate Body to Mind can save you from that.
Regardless of that, Feoh is more a direct damage kind of class, while summoner needs the summons to cause the damage.
Bot badass imo
But i would rather choice Summoner then Feoh, i hate mages :p
Summoners can solo lvl without resting much, while wizard has to rest abit in between grind unless u have a mana recharger with u. But at 85+ u will mostly be partying half the time grinding the dungeons.
Summoners are more support/debuffer for ur pet which are the main dps.
Feoh is a pure dmg dealer.
They're both DPS classes, they just have different delivery methods.
Wynn Summoner utility is not so great that people should be labeling them as a support class.
Both have debuffs, but yes Wyn Summoner is more similar to old Necromancer/Soultaker than the Wizard is.
A Mage should level faster than a Summoner except an ES at 79+ but those levels don't matter since you can just quest grind PI, anyways. It's not hard to get a Kook and Herbs drop everywhere. If you wanna play a Mage and still have a good pet, there is Necro/Soultaker.
Well i have to say this...i have a lvl 86 Feoh Wizard ( always loved Nukers) but without ISS buffs...she is weak.....BUT...a Wynn Summoner now, can Tank in Harnaks Underground Ruins and do it with ease. After seeng what a summoner is capable of...i wish now i would have went Wynn Summoner...this is just "MY" opinion though
A Feoh Wizard can solo non-stop with just Aeore Healer buffs and Arcane Power Toggle on 100% of the time.
Many people will choose Wynn Summoner because they like the ez-mode PvE/Soloing they can do.
A Wynn Summoner needs the same buffs a mage does to maximize their capablities. All classes are buff-dependent. You can give people the wrong impression with the way you worded your post.
Summoners have an advantage in that they at least get a basic set of buffs for their pets. Wizards don't have any mentionable long-term self-buffs, but it's not hard to buy a basic set from the mentor vendor...
Wynn summoners are capable of taking a lot of damage and doing a lot of damage.
Feoh Wizards do retarted sums of damage. I've been magic crit before for 29k by a Feoh Wizard.
But then again, this archer in my party hit someone for 1.2million on harnak 3 before during a 7v7. I called BS until the museum updated and showed it.
AngeliqueJuliet
Summoners are more support/debuffer for ur pet which are the main dps.
QUOTE]
Only before awakening.
Summoners are DPS even before Awakening, especially at 79-84. Awakening just gave them more flexibility and rolled some Soultaker functionaity into that Archetype (Marks, etc.).
Summoner for Solo, small pvp and some groups (good, but not as asked for as nuker).
Basically post 85 Nuker is a DD witrh good AOE's and consistent strong damage in pve and pvp and a few good debuffs. They have weak defense however and while they're great solo for VR AOE (faster killing than summoner) they are quite squishy.
A Summoner is a very strong melee DD in PvE but in PvP they are basically DOT classes and can only do good damage every once in a while (DOT re-use/retriever) on single targets, pet damage is pretty weak in PvP. Not been impressed with the damage on Summoner's nuke so far, but I'm not in m.atk gear. Summoner can take a lot more damage than nuker since they effectively have double HP with half their damage taken going to their summon.
I wouldn't say summoner is a debuffer really, their dots are quite strong damage wise but they don't reduce other player's abilities like most other classes can.
Wynn summoners are capable of taking a lot of damage and doing a lot of damage.
Feoh Wizards do retarted sums of damage. I've been magic crit before for 29k by a Feoh Wizard.
But then again, this archer in my party hit someone for 1.2million on harnak 3 before during a 7v7. I called BS until the museum updated and showed it.
Summoners are DPS even before Awakening, especially at 79-84. Awakening just gave them more flexibility and rolled some Soultaker functionaity into that Archetype (Marks, etc.).
Before 70 I was the main healer in my party using the reuse buff as I could keep the party's HP up in both PvE and PvP without running into mana problems like the other healers were. Also I made the nukers in my party OP.
Between 70 and 78 I was just a leech as my Merrow's damage was deplorable in PvP and PvE and my heals became much less effective compared to an actual healer.
From 79 to 83, I could wipe an entire party with just an OL and SWS, 2-3 shotting people with Tidal Wave. From 83 to 85 I could 1-2 shot people with Tidal Wave.
I call that a huge difference in DPS from where you're not needed for anything but healing and support to running around and wiping entire parties with ease. Honestly I felt more like I awakened at 79 than 85.
After awakening you can't support your party heals. You only have Mana sharing so you're straight DPS, but you can out dps most people with the right setup.
Just cause you played terribly in terrible groups without a healer doesn't mean you were a healer or anything other than minor support.
Seriously, No Grade Battle Heals and a Seraphim? You cannot be serious?
From 76+ your Merrow should be doing good damage almost everywhere just from its melee, unless you're going to the worst places to level. I mean, maybe I should level up a Nuker and go level in HB or Giants Cave and then say that it's a support cause I battle Healed and debuffed MOBs? Get buffed, IMO.
Yes, DPS goes up - a lot - as you level up becuase you get newer skills (like 79 summons) and you have access to itemization (like Attribute, Higher Grade Weapons) that significantly boost damage. That is the same for any class, even true support classes.
A Necro can do the same thing you stated you did on your ES for the most part, and more at those lower levels. They are still a DPS class.
And Most XPing in a decent party at R grade is AoE so there are a lot of classes that can and will outDPS a Wynn Summoner routinely. Players crit often and for ridiculous amounts of damage now. Setting up a Summoner for DPS is trivial and takes only common sense and elementary-level reading skills.
Just cause you played terribly in terrible groups without a healer doesn't mean you were a healer or anything other than minor support.
Not a healer class, got got the job done in those levels and never lost a pvp.
Seriously, No Grade Battle Heals and a Seraphim? You cannot be serious?
Completely serious.
From 76+ your Merrow should be doing good damage almost everywhere just from its melee, unless you're going to the worst places to level. I mean, maybe I should level up a Nuker and go level in HB or Giants Cave and then say that it's a support cause I battle Healed and debuffed MOBs? Get buffed, IMO.
This is your main problem. Assumption. You're making claims based on nothing as you don't play the class. And on top of that making irrelevant comparisons to a completely different class in completely different situations.
Yes, DPS goes up - a lot - as you level up becuase you get newer skills (like 79 summons) and you have access to itemization (like Attribute, Higher Grade Weapons) that significantly boost damage. That is the same for any class, even true support classes.
Yes dps goes up a lot, its 3rd class. As such support and defensive abilities have gone up for classes as well. I really don't see your point. But even so, 79+ EMs become strong DD classes since all summons have recieved a boost in p.attk and a huge boost in M.attk which makes that high powered water AOE devasting. A nuker won't be going around wiping an entire party in 2-3 hits. Even a level 85 awakened nuker couldn't do that to a fully buffed level 70+ party.
A Necro can do the same thing you stated you did on your ES for the most part, and more at those lower levels. They are still a DPS class.
Ok. Again you're comparing a debuff oriented wizard to a summoner using a summon with terrible crit rate and poor AOE capabilities. ES is simply not a powerhouse until level 79 any DPS class can easily out DPS and out burst a low level summoner, but cannot fulfill support functions as well as an ES. And you attack that as if it were new. ES's have always been used for support. No one parties an ES for damage. People only party level 79+ EMs for damage and in GoD EM's with Magnuses are extremely overpowered due to the absurd M.attk boost.
And Most XPing in a decent party at R grade is AoE so there are a lot of classes that can and will out DPS a Wynn Summoner routinely. Players crit often and for ridiculous amounts of damage now. Setting up a Summoner for DPS is trivial and takes only common sense and elementary-level reading skills.
You went from an ES to a Wynn... If you're going to spout nonsense at least be consistent. Also yes setting up any DD class for DPS is, I hope, trivial at best. lol
Man oh man. Seriously bro you should just stick to information on Wizards and stop trying to give out information on classes you have little experience with. From your posts I figure you're not in any factor clan as you would know better by now.
Anyway to the OP I hope this information has helped you out on your decision.
I think summoners have always been some sort of in between "support" and "dmg dealer". Before 85 battle heal is good in some cases, and buffs from seraphim makes nukers op, and warrior/mage bane helps in pvp, but the dmg (even from tidal wave) isn't that great comparing to pure dps classes.
After 85 it's still the same. Dmg from cougar isn't that great in pvp, and nukes are weak + long reuse, but it gets 2 disable (exile and mass exile), 4 dots (marks), 1 strong nuke (mark retriever) and mana share. So it's still somewhere in between, not pure support, not pure dps.
And Most XPing in a decent party at R grade is AoE so there are a lot of classes that can and will outDPS a Wynn Summoner routinely. Players crit often and for ridiculous amounts of damage now.
That is true, unfortunately :mad::mad:
Magnus was never OP for PvP, unless you were ganking low levels or people with absolutely terrible buffs. I been PvPing against Magnus since the first one was dropped on Bartz, probably before you even seen one in game since you were like C grade back then.
And any group with an ES as main healer even at lower levels is going to get steamrolled by any decent group in PvP. Nor can you XP in any decent places like that, so you have to be talking about B Grade levels or something, which is literally ignorable in this discussion. A group of Low S grade players probably couldn't even sustain XPing in a Pagans Anteroom with that kind of setup back then. It was bad enough with an SE healing back then... Nevermind an ES battle healing.
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My comment about Wynn Summoners is pertinent to the discussion becuase new players don't get stone of Destiny and someone mentioned how Summoners in R Grade stacked up against other classes in the DPS department. Your reading comprehension failed you there, buddy.
Before R Grade a Nuker has no issues outDPSing a Summoner, but summoners are superior in places where Nukers weren't favored and melee was - like in Hellbound when it was released. Summoners went there routinely and used their 79 Servitors to DPS, and with an S casting Stigma they did amazing damage especially crit damage. After R Grade Summoners close the gap a bit but in AoE a Nuker will still blow them away. Like I said, almost all the good R Grade XP groups are AoEing. Summoners I know do not get partied as fast as nukers (disregarding the fact that there are probably significantly more nukes, but that is changing as most randoms are choosing Wynn so they can ubersolo), but they make up for it with their soloing prowess. Hell, even soloing a Wizard can do pretty well so that's a bit less of an advantage these days especially if you have a boxed buffer (since a nuker doesn't have to box 3+ buffers at extreme high end to solo decently like before, when a Summoner could get by with just an SE or WC and maybe a SWS or BD if it was ES AoEing).
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Have leveled a Warlock and have an 82 EM Dual Class. Magnus nukes a 78 SE with SE buffs and no prophecy for about 2k damage. It does less than 1.5k damage to a full buffed character at that level and even less if they are the same level of the EM with Attribute on their gear. Tested with a 150 Water Weapon.
Magnus was only OP for PvE and Olympiad. In Open PvP it was always easy to kill due to how underpowered Servitor Heal is against high DPS classes. That, or you could just CP pot all the nuke damage because it has laughable reuse on that nuke...
Which brings me to another point... Were you 2-3 shotting AFK or botting players? Cause only an AFK person can stand there and let that pet get off 3 whole nukes while they [literally, by your words] ALL die.
Also Pets have MOB stats so the M.Atk on the Magnus while impressive doesn't actually perform the same as that same level of M.Atk on a player. The reason why Tidal Wave did impressive damage back then was cause the skill has a very high power compared to i.e. the Merrow AoE, not simply because it has high M.Atk. A player with similar M.Atk levels and Skill Power (like the old Fusion skills) could still do more damage in one nuke below 85 even if the skill was unattributed.
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Don't reply in side the quotes, it makes it impossible to reply to your post, BTW.
Magnus was never OP for PvP, unless you were ganking low levels or people with absolutely terrible buffs. I been PvPing against Magnus since the first one was dropped on Bartz, probably before you even seen one in game since you were like C grade back then.
And any group with an ES as main healer even at lower levels is going to get steamrolled by any decent group in PvP. Nor can you XP in any decent places like that, so you have to be talking about B Grade levels or something, which is literally ignorable in this discussion. A group of Low S grade players probably couldn't even sustain XPing in a Pagans Anteroom with that kind of setup back then. It was bad enough with an SE healing back then... Nevermind an ES battle healing.
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My comment about Wynn Summoners is pertinent to the discussion becuase new players don't get stone of Destiny and someone mentioned how Summoners in R Grade stacked up against other classes in the DPS department. Your reading comprehension failed you there, buddy.
Before R Grade a Nuker has no issues outDPSing a Summoner, but summoners are superior in places where Nukers weren't favored and melee was - like in Hellbound when it was released. Summoners went there routinely and used their 79 Servitors to DPS, and with an S casting Stigma they did amazing damage especially crit damage. After R Grade Summoners close the gap a bit but in AoE a Nuker will still blow them away. Like I said, almost all the good R Grade XP groups are AoEing. Summoners I know do not get partied as fast as nukers (disregarding the fact that there are probably significantly more nukes, but that is changing as most randoms are choosing Wynn so they can ubersolo), but they make up for it with their soloing prowess. Hell, even soloing a Wizard can do pretty well so that's a bit less of an advantage these days especially if you have a boxed buffer (since a nuker doesn't have to box 3+ buffers at extreme high end to solo decently like before, when a Summoner could get by with just an SE or WC and maybe a SWS or BD if it was ES AoEing).
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Have leveled a Warlock and have an 82 EM Dual Class. Magnus nukes a 78 SE with SE buffs and no prophecy for about 2k damage. It does less than 1.5k damage to a full buffed character at that level and even less if they are the same level of the EM with Attribute on their gear. Tested with a 150 Water Weapon.
Magnus was only OP for PvE and Olympiad. In Open PvP it was always easy to kill due to how underpowered Servitor Heal is against high DPS classes. That, or you could just CP pot all the nuke damage because it has laughable reuse on that nuke...
Which brings me to another point... Were you 2-3 shotting AFK or botting players? Cause only an AFK person can stand there and let that pet get off 3 whole nukes while they [literally, by your words] ALL die.
Also Pets have MOB stats so the M.Atk on the Magnus while impressive doesn't actually perform the same as that same level of M.Atk on a player. The reason why Tidal Wave did impressive damage back then was cause the skill has a very high power compared to i.e. the Merrow AoE, not simply because it has high M.Atk. A player with similar M.Atk levels and Skill Power (like the old Fusion skills) could still do more damage in one nuke below 85 even if the skill was unattributed.
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Don't reply in side the quotes, it makes it impossible to reply to your post, BTW.
Magnus was never OP years ago. It is OP now. If you haven't noticed - well back to my point of you giving info on a class you have little experience with - All servitors have had stat increases in GoD. And their M.attk were by far the highest increased. I'm level 90 and my Magnus still has more M.attk than Feoh Wizards of my level. Now imagine that kind of power on level 80 characters.
Any group with an ES healing is going to get rolled.. again you are commenting on something you have little experience with. You have absolutely no idea, but you insist on giving info about what you "think" is right. Matter of fact, my same "group that can't xp efficiently anywhere" was the same group that destroyed parties 14 levels higher than us. Which of course to you is impossible because you haven't done it. And sure enough they're fully buffed. Heck back in those times every top party always rolled around with melodies and drum melody scrolls carrying around a SWS or BD for combo song/dances. Also from my experience, it seems like bots pvp better than most legit players.
My comment about Wynn Summoners is pertinent to the discussion becuase new players don't get stone of Destiny and someone mentioned how Summoners in R Grade stacked up against other classes in the DPS department. Your reading comprehension failed you there, buddy.
Proofread your sentences.
Also summoners you know don't get partied fast but if you again, actually played the class, you would know that summoners AOE better than every class except wizards without excessive loyalty, with it only wizards with empowering echo can outdamage them. And considering that summoners don't need a recharger and wizards considering an extra 45% MP consumption per cast on an already high consumption class. Most, I'll emphasize, "high end" parties take no more than 1 wizard into parties.
Also Pets have MOB stats so the M.Atk on the Magnus while impressive doesn't actually perform the same as that same level of M.Atk on a player. The reason why Tidal Wave did impressive damage back then was cause the skill has a very high power compared to i.e. the Merrow AoE, not simply because it has high M.Atk. A player with similar M.Atk levels and Skill Power (like the old Fusion skills) could still do more damage in one nuke below 85 even if the skill was unattributed.
And that sir is where I am done responding to your nonsense. I'll done with you from here on out, your responses are so lol that i can't even hold back from laughing half the time I'm reading them.
Cougars were supposed to be DD melee, so I can't understand why they have less p. attack base than reapers, and why cougars skills are magical instead of physical, because their M. attack are garbage.
Cougars were supposed to be DD melee, so I can't understand why they have less p. attack base than reapers, and why cougars skills are magical instead of physical, because their M. attack are garbage.
As flippy said base p.atk is nothing cougars have 2x the critrate and slightly faster atk speed, which makes them MUCH better DDs.
And that sir is where I am done responding to your nonsense. I'll done with you from here on out, your responses are so lol that i can't even hold back from laughing half the time I'm reading them.
Pet damage output/input is not calculated the same as player damage. Go and test damage incoming from a MOB on a pet and player with 2k P.Def and see what happens, even at same attribute resist levels. That's why pets have always been easy to kill, even with full buffs, unless UD'd.
My level 75 OL with 1k P.Def takes almost the same amount of damage from a MOB in FoG with 0 Attribute Resist than Magnus the Unicorn with full buffs and almost the same P.Def level (if not higher) and over 200 Fire Resist.
The same goes for attack values. They can have amazing P.Atk but a player with similar P.Atk levels will likely do factorably more damage. That is why a Magnus with 5k P.Atk hits a MOB in IT for like 1.2k damage but a Titan with same Attribute level hits the MOB for 2-3x that at same P.Atk levels.
I can outnuke any Magnus the Unicorn using skills of similar power even with lower M.Atk.
Pets are considered something like MOBs by the game.
The rest of your post isn't making much sense so I skipped most of it. I just wanted to address this.
It's always been like this, BTW.
I've tested the damage in all sorts of places. In Stakato Nest my Magnus is hitting MOBs for about 1k damage but the ES is doing like 400 with a +3 Vesper Mage weapon and only 1/5th the P.Atk of the pet (<1k P.atk on the summoner vs. ~4500 on the pet). IF the damage was calculated the same, then the pet should be doing about 2.5k dmg a hit non-crit on those MOBs, right? Yea...
At 40-60 they are the most powertful dps classes in the game as they have nukes AND summons AND newbie buffs or Mentor buffs for both... at 6x that dps lessens as their nukes become less potent and their pets more important.
I am not going to comment from 6x to 80 as quite frankly the climb is so fast and is pointless to argue about. Summoners are DPS, so are nukers.
At 81+ the Summoner actually overtakes the nukers in PvE as their damage output only requires keeping the pet alive (as opposed to the nukers' mana supply) and their pets can realistically solo where the nuker has absolutely no chance. A smart summoner NEVER runs out of mana or waits for regen and doesn't need a recharger or kooka.(Not that this really matters at 77+ as both of them will be doing DI likely where the nuker holds an advantage over all but elemental summoners)
Once awakened, the summoner becomes the most reliable damage output in the game, but gives up burst. The kitties have no real tricks, don't half-kill, and don't AoE well. The reapers single-target is less than kitties, their AoE (and the summoners' AoE) is magic based (so requires a different equipment kit) and thus the summoner must make choices the other DDs do not. Wizards archers and rogues have more burst and needn't make choices to better their AoE or single target. Summoners are better AoE than a Rogue, but fall behind Mages, Archers, and Warriors even Matk-equipped.
Summoners are best matched with other DDs with some tricks or better burst. Summoners match well with either mage, archer or melee parties as they can dish all three kinds of damage. Mages rely on summoners to even out their bursty and mana-limited damage output and add mana to the party while not needing any of the mana pots. Rogues and Archers rely on summoner damage output to finish killing their half-kills.
A summoner lacks BURST... all of the dps classes can burst higher than a summoner can ever hope to faster because the only burst ability they really have is retriever and its windup is slow and cooldown is long.
A summoner makes up for lack of burst with almost manaless damage and indeed ADDS mana to a party. (a little at a time)
A well-played summoner does bring utility... but you bring the summoner for relable damage.
As for the difference?
A party full of summoners kills quite quickly... while adding a nuker or archer, or rogue or warrior is a good plan, you aren't going to be hurting with only summoners.
To be put simply, turning down a level-approporate summoner for a party as a DD to add another DD you already have because you think summoners "don't dd as well" is a special kind of stupid.
In PvP, where burst is king, Nukers and Archers are superior... however, a well-played summoner has a chance to kill any class.
I typically take 30% or so from even nukers and archers even when they know exactly what to do.
Summoners are one of the few classes that really have half a shot vs those two when everything is well-played.
Many assumptions from many random guys... But the Truth is Simply and in few words...
Wynn summoner :
Best PvE Char...
Best 1v1 char...
Average 7v7 char ( before 99)
After 99 when u enchant skills for Re-use u basicly spam marks and can use exile every 10-15 sec...
But in PvE w/ proper set up there is nooooo other class that can deliver such dmg output as the Summoner class Period...
Heavy Set+
Str dyes+
Bow+
Str Cap+
Transformations+ (Str base transformations)
Exsessive Loyalty+
I have never seen any ES/EM doing so great in pvp, in fact I've seen them getting steamrolled hard by gladiators and such classes.
You cant look at servitor window and say omg 10k patk 20k matk and say its OP, those stats do a lot less damage than any player with those stats.
I know for a fact that decent warriors with decent apo pole with elem can do 150k+ damage on a single white mob and they do that with pole, hitting more than 1 mob in groups, with berserker and cc. Some mages can get 100k-150k matk, that is far beyond any of your servitors will probably ever have and on top of that, mages crit now every 2nd or 3rd hit on single targets and a lot more in aoe groups. Yes, summoners are op now because the majority of players have crap equipment, no element on weapon/armor and so on and actually summoners dont need more than what they have right now for pve (including raids). When players gonna start enchanting their skills at 99, element their skills and such, summoners gonna feel terrible again, like in the past.
Hi...
Many assumptions from many random guys... But the Truth is Simply and in few words...
Wynn summoner :
Best PvE Char...
Best 1v1 char...
Average 7v7 char ( before 99)
After 99 when u enchant skills for Re-use u basicly spam marks and can use exile every 10-15 sec...
But in PvE w/ proper set up there is nooooo other class that can deliver such dmg output as the Summoner class Period...
Heavy Set+
Str dyes+
Bow+
Str Cap+
Transformations+ (Str base transformations)
Exsessive Loyalty+
= Win... (wynn) End of story...:)
isnt light armor set with 7% patk or something like that? plus you have mastery
To be put simply, turning down a level-approporate summoner for a party as a DD to add another DD you already have because you think summoners "don't dd as well" is a special kind of stupid.
The only thing stupid is making broad sweeping generalizations on a hypothetical that can be influenced by a number of factors. Level-Appropriate says nothing. The nuker can be 2-3 levels higher than and the Summoner can still be "Level Appropriate." Level affects damage output now.
Secondly. Many times a Summoner's utility is simply unnecessary. Lots of Harnak's/SoA groups simply do not need the mana regen from a Summoner, and do it with one healer, even.
Adding another Warrior/Wizard/Archer over a Summoner will thus result in a faster XP rate. It's all about the math.
Lastly, the other player may simply have better gear than the summoner, which allows them to outperform the summoner easily.
Wizards do not depend on Summoners.
If the group leader wants to bring a group full of Dark Elves running Arcane Power + Empowering Echo then that's stupidity on his behalf, but a Summoner won't make any noticeable dent in the mana pressures in that group. They simply don't regen enough fast enough for that to be the case. I'm not 90+ yet so things may change there, but if you're leveling in Harnak's or SoA and your nukers feel like they need a Summoner, then something is wrong (and it's not the lack of a Summoner).
Mages depend on upgrading their gear to increase their DPM, and decent healers.
There are instances where bringing a summoner is the best choice (higher level harder zones, gear/levels on his side, etc.) but just less instances than where bringing another non-Summoner DD is optimal.
Part of the issue, IMO, is the proliferation of AoE leveling in the game these days. If there was a place where you pulled 2-3 really hard ST mobs at a time, then this class would really shine there. It's really designed for high-efficiency soloing and upper tier single target DPS. It's the casual friendly class in this game right now...
This thread is still going on with the same people flaunting their ignorance?
You guys should spend less time spewing BS on the boards and more time learning how to play lol. The fact that you still exp in harnaks is just comical.
This thread is still going on with the same people flaunting their ignorance?
You guys should spend less time spewing BS on the boards and more time learning how to play lol. The fact that you still exp in harnaks is just comical.
Sorry I've only spent about 30 minutes total in Harnaks half of it probably spent checking out wartag tip-offs.
You were wrong. Deal with it and move on.
Not suprising since you did the same B.S. in the mage forums for years back when...
And years back you were just as fail as you are now. Also you fight wars in harnaks? Cute! :D do you do swamps as well?
You fight whereever wartags are. Are you really that stupid?
I'm not 90+ yet so things may change there, but if you're leveling in Harnak's or SoA and your nukers feel like they need a Summoner, then something is wrong (and it's not the lack of a Summoner).
you get party recharge as healer at 91 plus good healers never complained about recharging or running oom if they use their skills properly to heal. alternating wizard spirit and dual casting every pull of mobs and using body to mind after each cooldown is the way to not cause problems to healers in parties with more wizards and spots where no mp pots drop. i never feel the need for summoners but they are welcome to stay as dd class, at least those who knows how to play that class.
I'm staying ahead and killing wars in higher areas on my level while your killing level 85s and acting like you're pro.
I do more than just PvE when I play this game.
I killed some awakened wartags trioing Longhorn in ToI yesterday too, you madz?
I didn't say I was pro. I don't XP in Harnak's Catacomb and never have. You're just grasping at straws, so...
The only thing stupid is making broad sweeping generalizations on a hypothetical that can be influenced by a number of factors. Level-Appropriate says nothing. The nuker can be 2-3 levels higher than and the Summoner can still be "Level Appropriate." Level affects damage output now.
Read the post Tren... I know its not your strong point, but you aren't helping your point when you clearly don't read the post.
The point is... just find level-appropriate DDs who aren't idiots.
I've been denied for a party in SoA and then made my own and finished while the dingbat was STILL looking for 90+ DDs with Twilight and Apoc weapons. (I then blacklisted him for a GoG party telling the story and branding him an idiot.)
:-)
I grind SOLO where some people are apparently afraid to tread with a full party... wars and all... /shrug
Read the post Tren... I know its not your strong point, but you aren't helping your point when you clearly don't read the post.
The point is... just find level-appropriate DDs who aren't idiots.
I've been denied for a party in SoA and then made my own and finished while the dingbat was STILL looking for 90+ DDs with Twilight and Apoc weapons. (I then blacklisted him for a GoG party telling the story and branding him an idiot.)
:-)
I grind SOLO where some people are apparently afraid to tread with a full party... wars and all... /shrug
And those level appropriate DDs may not be Summoners.
You basically said anyone who denies a summoner over someone else is an idiot, now you're changing it up?
Don't care what you leveled and don't care where you leveled. Any Decent SoA group should blow a soloer away - Summoner or otherwise. Nevermind GoG or better places. There aren't really enough indoor areas that don't start giving XP penalty that you can truly Solo past 87/88 to matter in the game at this point anyways.
I read the post, but why the sudden change of heart/perspective?