Hello there!
I have tyrr warrior 87 (pre-class titan) and i want to share my oppinion.
First of all I always see in the forum how underpowered tyrr warriors are. Yes this is true since feoh and yul make so imba dmg. In addition to this I would like to share about the Human tyrr warriors: they have dual spirit skill which can be enchanted for +15% pvp dmg... which with these huge p atk added to skills is really big advantage.
Second comes the kamael... NCSoft take in mind that kamaels have Final Form after awaken, but not the ordinary one and BOOSTED Final Form! I spoke with many kamael tyrr warriors and they says that on final form their p atk is tripple than normal! Plus that final form already has the possiblity to use bow with normal atk spd? Oo ?? Plus that they have rush impact which is without delay and stuns for 9 seconds?
And at last place comes the poor orc (big body, weak skills like a complete useless racial skill which boosts 17% atk speed and lows -15% p def? Are you kidding me? Its not useless, its even debuff skill in pvp (versus 6 of 8 classes...). For PvE its useless too since the mobs after 85 cant be solo...
Yeah I aggre that orcs has 5 seconds barrier... but compared to other race tyrr warriors its not enough.
Suggestions: bring back the zealot (the proud and trade mark of the orc race), or make savage boost +15% p def and rush impact like kamael's cooldown... so all tyrrs will have same rush impact, savage/zealot then would compare to final form and duelist spirit...
OMG stop with the i just awakened whine on tyrr warriors.
U are lvl 87 u hardly scratched the surface of your toon, its like saying at lvl 76 wow mages are strong, my GK or Titan is worthless, then u hit 85 in H5 and u 2 hit them.
As for race difference. yes humans kan keep dual spirits and enchant it again when they awaken use a fortune on that, only to remove it later when they realize they kinda need zerkers rage. Ill take Berzerkers rage and undying will any day over dual spirits.
Now the rush skills, lol u worrie about a lvl 77 skill when u some day gonna reach 90+ if u are lucky. If kamaels want jump attack they gonna have to give up the rush aswell.
As for the dmg compared to other classes, all i have to say is learn to play. I have yet to see the mage or archer that can solo 2 parties in soa, or just 1 for starters. Im 87 Tyrr(GK) and i outdmg most players i party with. My avarage dmg in soa is 5k pr hit and crit for 15-130k, seen archers do that kind of dmg aswell, but mages dont even come close. Only reason they are good is they are easy to land aoe with, they dont have to think about position.
So how about u stop crying, and come back when u hit 95 where game begins again.
You should see the maestros, they have it much rougher than you. They can't keep any useful skill afaik and invincible barrier is much better than dorfs actives imo. (Altho i like the fact dorfs tyrs have 2 knockdowns). And nobody goes earth on weapon coz half the mobs 85+ have earth res 300 and this is dorf element.
You should see the maestros, they have it much rougher than you. They can't keep any useful skill afaik and invincible barrier is much better than dorfs actives imo. (Altho i like the fact dorfs tyrs have 2 knockdowns). And nobody goes earth on weapon coz half the mobs 85+ have earth res 300 and this is dorf element.
The 50% reflect is quite useful now this update too. Not to mention dwarves are so dang cute with dual blunts.
lvl 89 with 300 ele +3 apoc pole and my 9 out of 10 crits do 20k average. very very rarely does my tyrr do 50k crit.
but its all good i got this awesome toggle skill which does less then 200dmg per second while mobs in gog have around 500k hp.
ill take my 90 archer over my 89 tyrr anyday lol simple cuz tyrrs have no survivability. my DE archer has racial skill which makes me untargetable for 5 secs, then it has UE which makes me lol at any tyrr warrior/rogue during a fight. not to mention halfkills are just so OP :D
High HP, High p.def, or -40% crit dmg. 3 heals. 10-25 seconds of cs depending on oe/race. way more survivability than an archer. Though toggle does suck though.
lvl 89 with 300 ele +3 apoc pole and my 9 out of 10 crits do 20k average. very very rarely does my tyrr do 50k crit.
but its all good i got this awesome toggle skill which does less then 200dmg per second while mobs in gog have around 500k hp.
ill take my 90 archer over my 89 tyrr anyday lol simple cuz tyrrs have no survivability. my DE archer has racial skill which makes me untargetable for 5 secs, then it has UE which makes me lol at any tyrr warrior/rogue during a fight. not to mention halfkills are just so OP :D
Just lol
Disparition wont save you from aoe...you have OP lethals at 87+ lvl +str
but survivability...tyr has wayyyyy more. Also a tyr does crowd control all the time...
Aoe Stun spammable
Aoe Disarm
Aoe Knock Down
Dwarf Racial another Aoe Knock Down
Never ever a tank died in pt in which I was playing tyr.
Nothing personal but maybe you can just pew pew lethals and that's it. Tyr requires more skills
As for the dmg compared to other classes, all i have to say is learn to play. I have yet to see the mage or archer that can solo 2 parties in soa, or just 1 for starters. Im 87 Tyrr(GK) and i outdmg most players i party with. My avarage dmg in soa is 5k pr hit and crit for 15-130k, seen archers do that kind of dmg aswell, but mages dont even come close. Only reason they are good is they are easy to land aoe with, they dont have to think about position.
Would you be so kind to let us know your lvl and gear set up?
How do you do so much dmg and on which mobs?
My gear is streight forward.
+6imm hvy attack.
+4Apo stormer dmg 300fire..
Baium(used oly untill a few days ago same crit effect), Ant Queen.
My level is 87, i think i already stated that.
The highest dmg is in SoA, but harnark is close to.
If no debuffs is landed on mobs i crit for 15-80kk. with Iss debuff 40-130kk. True the 100kk is not every pull u get those. But 50-80 is pretty common.
I dont know if this is a effect of OE bonus for R pole, but the more mobs i hit pr swing, the higher dmg i tend to do on crits. The text for +4 oe bonus on pole is kinda unspecific on what it does.
Just lol
Disparition wont save you from aoe...you have OP lethals at 87+ lvl +str
but survivability...tyr has wayyyyy more. /when a tyrr gets targeted and theres no healer, he dies. theres no avoiding it. try doing a siege without a healer in ur pt. every class in ur pt will stand longer then a tyrr.
Also a tyr does crowd control all the time... /only crowd control a tyrr does ALL THE TIME is eruption. the rest u listed here has like 10 minutes cd.
Aoe Stun spammable /indeed very usefull except for the fact the stun removed once u hit the mob.
Aoe Disarm /only usable once during a fight due to cd and even then it lands like freaking never. if landed its auto win though but its definitely not constant CC
Aoe Knock Down /as above but even worse landing rate then the skill above lol
Dwarf Racial another Aoe Knock Down
Never ever a tank died in pt in which I was playing tyrr. /i wonder what lowbie mobs u exp at? maybe swamp? cuz in soa 3 grp pulls or harnaks 3rd u DONT contribute to saving ur tank at ALL lmao the most a tyrr can do is knock a mob off the healer.
Nothing personal but maybe you can just pew pew lethals and that's it. Tyr requires more skills
gratz u won the "joke of the day" award. tyrrs are as straight forward as a class can come. no skill takes timing or planning or anything except maybe eruption but its on such a low cd u might as well spam it lol. and yeah thats coming from a 89 tyrr with 1.5 win loss ratio in oly. then theres my archer which requieres constant kiting, thinking of when to port forward and backward, combining that with 2 knockback skills and stun and slow shot and traps to always be untouchable, then choosing what stance for what skill and changing it in time, then making sure target is always debuffed etc etc.
so yeah archer takes more skill then tyrr, and again i have a 89 tyrr so im not hating on it or saying its underpowered or whatever.
why do i like my archer better is cuz it does have more survivability and can be played by thinking but why i dislike my tyrr a little bit is cuz it has no BENEFICIAL stuff. rogue has shadow, 999k crits pve and pvp, 3 halfkill skills. archer has porting skills, halfkill, traps. all a tyrr has is damage skills and a 2 sec stun which btw usually get removed right after it lands due to damage removing stuns.. thats boring and just faceroll on keyboard playstyle hence i switched to archer cause its possible to play by thinking and not just by force.
i also got a bunchload of screenshots when lookin for party and getting comments like "sorry dont take tyrr for harnaks 3" even though i do more dmg then any class except feohs :P and "lol tyrr for gog? nah halfkill only"
edit: another reason i prefer my archer is cause for some weird reason skills power is way higher then tyrr skills AND my DE archer skills reset like 1 out of 3 times. sometimes i get to do the same skill 4x in a row without cd :D
and just to be clear i think that after healer, tyrr is the strongest 1 v 1 class in oly and after Feoh its the best AOE class in pve. so again im not QQing about tyrrs strength lol
lol,re roll man.i got my tyrr warrior to 86 and did subclass.it's a fun class but dude...lol.i still prefer doombringers over tyrr warrior all day.imo tyrr warrior not that great in pvp.you can talk about the gear,you just suck all you want.i can assure you,given the gear you have against a mage with same quality of gear you have,will nuke crit the fawk out of you before you even get close to her.don't tell me you guys duel in the race track arena.duel outside the town with open field and let me know what you think.
lol,re roll man.i got my tyrr warrior to 86 and did subclass.it's a fun class but dude...lol.i still prefer doombringers over tyrr warrior all day.imo tyrr warrior not that great in pvp.you can talk about the gear,you just suck all you want.i can assure you,given the gear you have against a mage with same quality of gear you have,will nuke crit the fawk out of you before you even get close to her.don't tell me you guys duel in the race track arena.duel outside the town with open field and let me know what you think.
Doombringer was such a good class. Sad to see what's happened to it, and all 3rd classes really.
But anyway, Tyrs get a boost in the next update so don't be so quick in rerolling to Nuker.
how you so sure they gonna boost them in the next update?i heard they were gonna get boosted like 2 updates ago.honestly,they can't boost them,why?if they boost them,other othell rogue players are going to cry about their class,and the tank is going to cry,so does that mean they will boost all the class?don't think so.ncsoft will keep it the way it is...if they boost one class,one will always complain.....but im not saying tyrr warrior is bad.tyrr warrior is strong against certain classes....just like an archer is weak against a sigel knight.
DaisyDuck, you can't read or what? The main theme is not how weak the tyrr warriors are, its HOW DISBALANCED different tyrr warriors' races are! Plus that YES tyrr warriors do like 80% of the archers' damage in AOE BUT they are MELEE class (which means that THEY NEED HEAL A LOT) plus they DONT HAVE HALF KILL like archers (no warrior ever had) so whats the point to chose tyrr in your party ? To make less damage than archer or mage? To spend more of the healer's mana? Nooo dude... i wouldnt prefer it! As melee fighter, as close range char, since no have half-kill, it MUST do more aoe damage than range (not so much heal requiring) chars!
About the rush impact? Have you ever play tyrr warrior? You know that in pvp rush impact lands 70% against AWAKEN chars? Plus in pvp vs mage I have exactly 2 rushes to use vs 2 blinks/push-backs BUT idk because of cooldown or what, but I always have delay versus mages "escapes". In other time I SURELY would walk at least 3-4 TIMES to the mage! Its near 400 range? For 3x400 range I take more than 10k dmg... and what happens when im slowed? What happens when they lift me in air (no resist for this)? All at all I take like 30k damage with NO RESISTANCE at all? Yeah I overcome some mages some times, but its due to they are noobs, or some kind of good luck.
And no, im not noob, I play for 6 years and i have many achievments.
Plus I didnt complain of tyrr warrior in pvp (less or much work over the character would make it good one i hope) its little underpowered in pve (thats other theme you can discuss in different topics all over the forum) plus yes I havent reach max level and learned all the skills. BUT I give my oppinion so far!
So please lets keep to the main theme. ARE different tyrr warriors' races DISBALANCED?
Honestly I have not much touch to the dwarf tyrr warriors, but I've read somewhere they keep their craftsman's superiority.
So once again the question but in synonim words to the topic "Are different tyrr warriors' races disbalanced? Point is the orc race vs others"
THANKS!
Unforeseen, ok lets dance. For starters, my first post was about your topic, and i stick with what i said. Yes i strayed abit of topic in last block, but u didnt even wait for second line in your own to stray of topic your self in your last poste.
Now for your first subject in last post, AOE dmg. I do more dmg then any other in aoe party, that i played with. No we dont need halfkills skills, couse they are the only thing that makes rouges remotely usable in parties, but they only work for GoG or other single target places. They are worthless in AOE. Archers dont do near my dmg, they relie on skill dmg to hit aoe, and they hardly ever crit, + crit modifiers dont affect skills rate or dmg. Mages come close in dmg couse they dont need to position them self, they always hit most targets.
Now back the the real topic. ORCS VS REST.
Kamael:
Final form, wow really nice, transforms are just pointless, they are limited in use, worthless in pve beside major raids. Transforms are for summoners and archers that want to meele.
Ruch Impact, now this is where i have to LOL over u. again its a 77 skill that u cant enchant anymore. I fought many kamaels in oly and pvp, and i dont land. get some propper jewelry and stop crying. The higher level u gonna gain, the less its gonna land. And sooner or later they gonna have to remove that skill for jump atk couse in the end its better when u get the last level and can enchant it.
Dark elfs. well they kinda sux as tyrr have to say when it comes to racial skills. 1% life leach, and 5 seconds where u cant target. well good players will still be able to hurt em using aoe skills.
De's also have the lowest con of all, makes em alot more vulnerable to stuns and disables.
Humans:
Dualist spirit vs zerkers rage, thats what they have to deside. and spirit cant be enchanted like any pre awakened skill. Ill take rage over spirit any day, its alot more versitile and if are in zerkers and as orc triggers undying will, u have 5 or 10 seconds with 500 crit rate and nasty dmg.
Now the race in question. ORCS..
Undying will. this skill is just nasty for oly and pvp in general. All other racial buff skills does not make u immune.
Savage, true this is abit odd skill but unlike any other races, u get a extra weapon vs mages and healers. yes its only vs 2 of 7 classes u can use it, but other races dont have it.
Orcs also have by far the best stats. Highest Con by far, and only DE's have more str. They also have the most MEN.
Dorfs.
Havnt looked much into this class. They do keep a self buff, thats kinda nice, but thats it. They get no benefit from their passive, Earth like stated earlier is just lol.
Now if u look at oly. On NAIA orcs are dominating the rankings. Only a single dorf have popped his head into top 5.
As for my self the only Tyrr i lose to, is higher level orcs. Im 87 my self and this month i lost only 2 fights vs tyrr. both orcs both 95+.
And the kamael tyrrs, well they are just a cute fly that u pull the wings off now. That rush never lands on me, and i have alot of fights with former Kamael heros that i used to get ***** by before GoD, now they are walkover.
Keep in mind that all old skills will at some point get remove, couse new skills are just better when u reach the last levels.
To me it sounds like u want us to deside for u, if u should reroll or not. The fact that u state u played for 6 years and so and so on, just tells me u know little of the game and is unsecure about what to do. In that case i would recommend u to go play WoW insted. L2 have always been unbalanced between races and classes, and it will remain so. Only now we talk races and not classes, even tough that has always been the subject, when u compare mage class to other mages before and so on.
Ok DaisyDuck I respect your oppinion... if you prove all you wrote. Because I have to tell you that I have spoken with many archers/mages and I would tell you that tyrr's damage is faaaar from theirs. For example me and archer in soa (same equipment,same lvl, same attribute value) make different damage. I make most of the times 80% of the damage he makes... BUT here comes the interesting fact... 1 out 10 of its skills are half-kills, he lands criticals more than me... so I even stopped to hit and guess what? Even at the mobs' hp lines it was obvious that archer made more damage than me. Where we try? SOA cokrackorns (where tyrrs have beast-bonus 45% damage). Can I prove this? Sure I can two of my constant-party players are archers. About PvP now... Tyrr warrior is good in pvp, no doubt. BUT why there is knock-down resist and there isn't lift-air resist? Have you tried rush impact land rate in pvp, i guess you didnt. If u tried it in harnak or soa's mobs... well gg in pvp it lands most of the time. Should I change it for jump attack? Do I need slow, since all range chars have blink back-forward? They doesnt even "use" the mouse dude. All they do is spam those blinks. Are those blinks affected by slow? Retoric question... "What about the jump attack's damage?" you would ask... well Tyrr has 4 attack skills with more power than this... so again jump attack is useless. "Yeah yeah, you always complain, but look at its statistic, more con, more str..." Did you try stats boost in this version? Did you try that +4 con would benefit u with 600hp? Naaah you didnt... so +/- some hundred hp (not even thousand) is something imba... same is for the resist that benefits con... Now about the DEs? DE warrior? Seriously? Since when ? :D ... now about the dwarfs - hell yeah dwarf always been the game's crafter... well it continues to be (craft mastery 11lvl). Kamael's FF - isnt it enough 5 min every hour (for example one mid-boss time, 1 pvp time, 1 siege push time)? Now about duelist spirit. Did you try your totems? Nooo you dont, because you would know that +35% p atk DOESNT benefit you anymore... Why ? Look at your skills p atk? 20k? Wow miracle! So when u stack it to your 5k p atk (with ogre/bear) what happence? 25k p atk? Wow, much? Now try the damage when you are with rabbit for example? Wow 24k p atk? Hell yeah you would make 1% more/less damage. Now... try the same with duelist who has 15% bonus in PVP from duelist spirit... so they have 25k patk +15%+atk speed for duals= 28-29k p atk and atk spd ... if u make 2k damage, you are going to make 2,6k ... big difference huh? Duelist spirit vs Berserker rage? Seriously? Berserker rage benefits... hp+30% on every killed target? lets say at 40% of the killed targets. max crit chance? Without it I have pretty good critical chance. Critical damage? I landed 2 times crit on skill for all my 100+ pvps... atk speed? Not even the same as duelist spirit... p atk benefits? Do you think 10% p atk (that affects 5k p atk) is better than 15% pvp damage (that affects 50-60k p atk (including skills like enchanted bomber, infinity strike etc.)) is better?
Answer to your last suggestion, no I will never re-roll my class, not even the race. I like tyrr warrior and I am not a leaver, what I made that would be. Just think about my suggestions above I don't want quarrel I just want proves by you, i play on Shillen's server and if you are there too, I will always come with my archers friends to prove you about the damage difference, I can always come to prove you my suggestion of rush impact, totems or anything else that is possible to prove. :)
Edited P.S: Sorry about bad grammar, bad paragraph separation, but all the time I make paragraphs - they dont show up. Sorry.
Look at my Othell with Blood Stab (from behind) and Heart Break (from front) as 2 main damage skills with 5 sec reuse, the last one is Chain Blow (you can't use in PVP), and ofcourse it's 40-50% land rate with damage same as Tyrr. Bluff sux, shadow step sux, paralyze sux, and tons of debuffs never land.
Othell is a joke in this game weak pdef, weak evasion, weak mdef, weak debuff resistance, average damage, low HP, useless in pt farm but i don't cry. I play because i like it, i don't want to be the OP class in game.
Look at my Othell with Blood Stab (from behind) and Heart Break (from front) as 2 main damage skills with 5 sec reuse, the last one is Chain Blow (you can't use in PVP), and ofcourse it's 40-50% land rate with damage same as Tyrr. Bluff sux, shadow step sux, paralyze sux, and tons of debuffs never land.
Othell is a joke in this game weak pdef, weak evasion, weak mdef, weak debuff resistance, average damage, low HP, useless in pt farm but i don't cry. I play because i like it, i don't want to be the OP class in game.
There was othell in my gog party, killed all the party members 1 by 1 (duels), even the tank... think about what would happened in pvp, where othells are most powerfull because of the surprise.
I battled like 10 othells so far... 7 couldnt take out even my 1/2 hp...1 almost killed me (I was like 1k hp left), 1 equal, 1 killed me... so think about it (Luck and landing rate was the same to all, but last 3 used all their skills not only the offensive ones (f1,f2,f3)) 7 noobs, 3 pros. Othells are really balanced now, good-to-play chars... If u expected previous 1blow-1kill glory of daggers, you are wrong.
Anyway in prove of my suggestions NCSoft took care for the tyrr warrior class in their next update called "harmony" (according to some russian sites) which is available only in Korea for now.
Unforeseen. u have some valid points, but also some HUGE errors.
Rush assault, no it doesnt land all the time in pvp. Get your subs up, get some resistence and u will see it never lands. It cannot be enchanted anymore like all other non awakened skills. I guess this is a effect that your server is new, and your gear is well scares. Cant imagine many epics around yet.
Now the dualist spirit. From what i have seen my self, and can read on forums, u CANT enchant old skills after u awaken, so dualist spirit is 10% more dmg not 25. and plz, if u gonna keep comparing 25% spirit with zerkers rage, plz get ALL the face and compare lvl 4 berzerksers rage +10 with +30 dualist spirit, before u do anything else. Like u said your self, u are only 87. How about u wait to complain oversomething, untill u know what to compare it against. Also zerkers gives great resist against debuffs.
Now for the archer friend of yours. In single target true, u dont even get close, ofc half kills are imba. But for AoE he dont come close. He only has skill dmg, and as u know your self they never crit. While u can just pound away mass dmg with regular hits that crits over and over again. With desent gear u gonna out dmg pretty much anyone aoe. and no, he cant do half kill on his aoe skill, he only has 1 skill that can do that while in shiper mode.
Guys, since you play l2 for so long, it's about time you should know that all this math and theories effect like 10% of the character. The most what effects, is skills of the player. One hit's 130k crits, other hits 20k crits. Impossible? Well i hit 60k crits and i have screens. In l2 everything is possible, even getting 500k damage from an ordinary mob (a.k.a. harnak 3). Also, your party effects your damage. Did you even ask if people have a 89 iss with rhapsody buff? What about forces? Trigger buffs? The math won't help here. I noticed myself, that i hit in soa normal crits 15-20k, but with right debuffs and trigger skills i can make 60k. L2 is not about numbers. It's about skill and drama.
can't agree with you more ishie.i still prefer the awakening classes never came.i prefer the old 3rd class.so many options,path to go,and ways to build the characters.more unique and more fun.whats the point of being a kamael doombringer which was bad *** when it ends up the same class as a freaking duelist.What about the duelist,no more duelist ever when you become a tyrr warrior.OOO and the hell knight.....miss the old times.
Don't forget they also took away our passive skill which is "Unbind" to humans and gave us that stupid full heal skill. If I had the option of the two I would have chosen the Unbind skill.
What I hate about the 5 second barrier is that it gets in the way when your about to self heal fully and if incorrectly timed (if your lucky to trigger it in pvp) it's a waste and then you get 1 or 2 shot by your opponent that instant and it's bye bye. Kinda have turned us into the soap picker in a prison cell or the punished B*tch from the gimp in Pulp Fiction.
I worked so hard on my orc with all subs completed over the years, I don't have time to roll a new toon and re-do subs so i'm forced to level an ugly new version of my Orc.
Rly the tyrr warriors are still good classes if you just know how to play them...
if you dont have skill just delet l2 from your pc, and stop crying about tyrr warrior is so bad in pvp.. with my tyrr warrior lvl 92(kamael) i own even lvl 95+ ppl its not about gear or skill enchants its about using the skills in the right time.
Orc tyrrr warriors are rly nice in pvp its allways hard to face them cause of his racial skill (undying will) a tyrr warrior can heal himself again to full hp you have skills that gives you p atk p def or other skills for speed atk speed and critical dmg so i dont know why ppl allways crying that "Orc Tyrr Warrior" are so bad ... all tyrr warrior is unique, and i dont have any problem to face a yul archer lvl 95.
The awakened skills kept by orcs (the ones that don't get replaced):
Battle Roarl: Orc can't use Battle Roar with any buff (Regenerates 35% hp and increases max hp 35% at last level) because the hp increase won't stack with any buff's hp increase. KAMAEL CAN USE THEIR ROAR, they regenerate 15% hp + 15% cp and increase the max on both by 15% as well, and that stacks with Melodies. I saw it. What is it NCsoft? You prefer Kamael's Roar skill over Battle Roar??? If not, then why the eff let me keep a skill after Awakening that I can't even use??? Why not just let me keep some other skill?
Dark Form: 20 Fire p.atk and 10 Fire Resistance for an Awakened class in an activated skill? For Real?
Savage is useful in 1v1 pvp against mages, but in mass it's stupid. And even in 1v1, Tyrr does much of his dmg from skills.
Berserker is the only one I can't complain.
Tyrrs in general: Why the eff do I have Armor Destruction and Hurrican Blaster with P.Def debuff if they won't stack and Hurricane Blaster does laughable 500 or so p.atk while Armor Destruction does 10k+? Of course, one could say "n00b, joo use Hurricane from far, armor destruction can only be used close to the target". Wow...so? I can just jump/rush to the **** target, knock him down and use armor destruction. Why do I NEED Hurricane Blaster?