You didnt mention there other unfair things,like Necro who doesnt exist anymore and there is only 1 human nuker with the abilitys of let's say old sorceror.
Also r90 robes suck on human female mystic and wiz horse looks really terrible while all other classes got so nice horses!
Very pretty pictures and VERY ireelevant and useless to your argument.
Please don't spam posts with junk that people don't need to look at. Please don't spam just posts that people don't need to look at.
Rather than QQ that LE has faster cast speed, why not QQ because cast speed doesn't make THAT much difference on any fully buffed class anyway. It's VERY easy to get over 1500 cast and 1500-1999 isn't really that much difference considering cost speed is irrelevant to skill re-use timer anyway.
What is the problem in this ?? and what new ? L.elf was capped at 1999 since... 3rd class... why you only QQing now?
BTW im a L.elf and i'm winning most of time vs D.elf in pvp and it's event more easier since god because of DC/WS while most DE keep AP/Echo.
This working has intended
dark elves can reach cast speed cap if you throw in some boss jewels and sub skills. At the end of the day, same endgame gear and skills, dark elf has more m.atk than light elf for simply because a dark elf, and light elf has nothing. Even the innate elemental boosts favor the dark elf. Lots of stuff is weak to wind, practically nothing is weak to water in goddess.
dark elves can reach cast speed cap if you throw in some boss jewels and sub skills. At the end of the day, same endgame gear and skills, dark elf has more m.atk than light elf for simply because a dark elf, and light elf has nothing. Even the innate elemental boosts favor the dark elf. Lots of stuff is weak to wind, practically nothing is weak to water in goddess.
Reroll then, I see nowhere in the "rules" the each race class combo has to be 100% the same, there's nothing wrong with some race/class combos being better than others.
Reroll then, I see nowhere in the "rules" the each race class combo has to be 100% the same, there's nothing wrong with some race/class combos being better than others.
Yes there is, there should be a thing called "balance", which NCSoft kinda failed at this time.
Rather than QQ that LE has faster cast speed, why not QQ because cast speed doesn't make THAT much difference on any fully buffed class anyway. It's VERY easy to get over 1500 cast and 1500-1999 isn't really that much difference considering cost speed is irrelevant to skill re-use timer anyway.
This. It doesn't matter how fast your cast speed is you will still be doing the same amount of nukes in the same amount of time.
This especially when you consider that +40% M atk doesn't equal +40% damage.
always dark elf mage > other mages ..
The same with dark elf archer and dark elf dagger>others archers/daggers ;)
GoD = DE chronicle,so unbalanced.
Nice post op ;)
But really, there was an obvious need to nerf the Casting speed (or rather, cap it). Light Elves were able to get above 1900 with just Buffs and Gear (almost cap it with Epics) when other classes were struggling to get to 1700 and with things like Hero Zerk and Reuse Buffs the Nukers shot off almost instantly with basically instant reuse.
It was so fast that sometimes your BSPS didn't get get on some of the nukes fast enough. They could kill anything from across the field.
This has become an issue again now that buffs were improved a bit past awakening (higher %s) and Tats allow you to increase two stats in the same slot.
Since nukes have a higher base reuse now there's no way you'll ever be able to see that kind of power (not to mention Wizard has been rebalanced such that they don't just Vortex - Spam Hydro - Crusher like they used to).
Oh, and without a Casting Speed cap a Light Elf Mage (or really, any Wizard pariod) with Buffs and Enlightenment/Wizard Spirit would be severely OP. We'd probably all have to eat a nerf just so the OP and people like him could be happy - the same way it's rumored they are going to do something about keeping Blue Tag Skills becuase of Dark Elves stacking Emp Echo and Arcane Power past awakening. You can probably think some emo light elves for that as well. They're mostly the only ones complaining about that, too...
The Dark Elves will always have that advantage over you - always, because of their higher Base INT and night-time passive. And even in something like the Olympiad they will still plow you a lot of the time due to Desparation so even with higher casting speed they will simply be untargettable for 4-5 seconds and still get the first stun off on you. There's no way around this. You won't win it.
And NCSoft will not uncap casting speed because Mages are already powerful enough. More exists than just one class and two races in this game. If it matters, that much, then reroll and switch your gear over to your new Dark Elf Feoh.
Very pretty pictures and VERY ireelevant and useless to your argument.
Please don't spam posts with junk that people don't need to look at. Please don't spam just posts that people don't need to look at.
Rather than QQ that LE has faster cast speed, why not QQ because cast speed doesn't make THAT much difference on any fully buffed class anyway. It's VERY easy to get over 1500 cast and 1500-1999 isn't really that much difference considering cost speed is irrelevant to skill re-use timer anyway.
^^^ THIS!
History Lesson:
Back a few years ago, Nuke Reuse was based on CASTING Speed, and Casting Speed was uncapped. A light elf could get to 1906 with Acumen Weapon +4 WIT and a DC Set (of which there are S80+ equivalents now). With +5 WIT and an Epic they could almost cap it. With Reuse buffs added on top of that, they could shoot two nukes a second with literally no reuse.
How, put Hero Zerk, Valakas and other epics on it and think about it a bit.
The casting speed was nerfed for a couple reasons:
1. Casting Speed no longer reduced spell reuse
2. Enlightenment was upcoming, which would have given Light Elves ridiculous casting speed (inter-archetype balance, since DPS wins CB Olympiad, not DPM) and nukers in general (general PvP balance issue, people did not like getting double slowed from 900 range and dying by the time they got to 600 - nevermind Cancel Reuse back then was ******ed fast due to the C.Spd mechanics).
3. Gameplay bugs. Like BSPS not being applied all all nukes at those extreme casting speeds, and nuking into dead MOBs before the client recognized it as dead, since at 2k you were doing roughly 2 nukes a second with literally no reuse on them when you had an SWS in party back then.
It wasn't only for balance reasons. It was also for gameplay reasons...
A Feoh DEF vs. Feoh LE it still wouldn't matter that much with DEF M.Atk Advantage (which is factorable even without stacking Blue Tag skills) and Desparation, anyways.
With c.spd not affecting spell reuse, it really wouldn't matter that much at those casting speed levels, especially when you consider the passives and current blue tag skill/buff stacking.
Why dont speak about Crit rate cap at 500 and atk. speed... (easily reached from Elf dagger)
Crit Rate and Attack Speed always had more buffs for it than Casting Speed and M.Crit Rate. The cast of the latter, some of those buffs didn't even come until they added in high S Grade skills (Dance of Siren, e.g.).
But Attack Speed and Crit Rate had been a balance consideration far earlier due to things like Destroyer Skills and Tyrant Totems - nevermind the fact that melee weapons have varying Attack Speeds while Mage Weapons are all pretty Uniform (with nukes all having the same base Casting Speed). The only thing that really differentiated Casting Speed and M.Atk among mages back then were Racial Stats, since they all basically wore the same gear setups and got pretty carbon copy skill sets (Necro notwithstanding).
Casting Speed and M.Crit Stat caps weren't really under consideration until later on when Mages could get to 1900+ with just Buffs/Dances/Prophecy Buff and it became a bigger issue when you added in other disturbances like Epic Jewelry (Baium, Valakas, Antharas) which could increase Casting Speed/Reduce Reuse.
The Augmentation system is when they really cracked down on Crit Rate, since Passive WM Augmentations overpowered Valakas nukers.
But C.Spd was capped before they capped and reduced Mage Crits back then.
That's why.
It's dumb to even mention the Atk Spd and Crit Caps because now C.Spd and Mage Crits are equivalently capped and in the case of Mage Crits even severely nerfed in damage compared to what they were before.
You obviously don't understand balance or you would not make a comment like that
No.
When a certain class is favored by a certain race/class combo it means it's not balanced.
In order to be balanced LE's would have to have something good to oppose DE's INT/racials. More WIT doesn't seem to cut it.
Savvy?
I know DE players/lovers are gonna troll and defend their race, but yeah, LE's are unfavored.
There are ppl runnig with 330+ mag critical rate.. is it capped? to what value? any infos? :)
Not sure what the current cap is, but back then they capped it to 20% and increased the buffs. Before then, people with the right gear and Augmentations could get above 90% (on a StSc, for example) M.Crit rate and Mage Crits did 4x damage back then.
In addition to nerfing the rate, and improving the base rate (for non-uber geared people), they also decrease the amount of damage mage crits did. I think to 3x at first and then to 2x when they added in the revamped prophecies that could increase M.Crit damage (PoWind, Visions of Pa'agrio).
That was a long time ago now. My memory isn't completely 100% on it.
Not sure what the current cap is, though... However, it doesn't matter as much now because the mechanics have been revamped so heavily since then.
You didnt mention there other unfair things,like Necro who doesnt exist anymore and there is only 1 human nuker with the abilitys of let's say old sorceror.
Also r90 robes suck on human female mystic and wiz horse looks really terrible while all other classes got so nice horses!
Yeah, don't forget thought that elf has the highest WIT on game.
Practically that means ELF mystic has the highter mag critical rate on l2 and the best Reuse on game. Wit is not just cast, and personally i wouldnt change my elf feoh for anything in the world.
INT is good for m att and m crit damage but wit + mental from elf rock :).
SO:
MEN = High mp regeneration +m def + resist mental + Concenration
WIT = m evasion + m crit + cast + m resist rate + reuse
INT = M.attack + m critical damage
Personally i prefer elves on feoh rather than d.elves.
And the limit 1999 gives the elves the opportunity to focus on rising int cause they have high wit + men WHILE d.elves have to focus on rising
int more + wit + men (Usually they don't do anything about men and have emp echo so they run out of mana easily) :S.
+1 for elves
cast speed is capped not only because of balance issues but because of software/hardware problems. there was a time when shots started to fail and also lag was created when max cast speed was achieved.
There are ppl runnig with 330+ mag critical rate.. is it capped? to what value? any infos? :)
500 is max crit for mages too
Yeah, don't forget thought that elf has the highest WIT on game.
Practically that means ELF mystic has the highter mag critical rate on l2 and the best Reuse on game. Wit is not just cast, and personally i wouldnt change my elf feoh for anything in the world.
INT is good for m att and m crit damage but wit + mental from elf rock :).
SO:
MEN = High mp regeneration +m def + resist mental + Concenration
WIT = m evasion + m crit + cast + m resist rate + reuse
INT = M.attack + m critical damage
Personally i prefer elves on feoh rather than d.elves.
And the limit 1999 gives the elves the opportunity to focus on rising int cause they have high wit + men WHILE d.elves have to focus on rising
int more + wit + men (Usually they don't do anything about men and have emp echo so they run out of mana easily) :S.
+1 for elves
no, its the same for every mages, all skills have fixed time, only some skills and boss jewels reduce reuse on skills, thats why LE got screwed
thats why De is able to shoot the same number of spells as LE in the same counted time, feoh skills reuse are significantly higher than the 2nd-3rd class skills
cast speed is capped not only because of balance issues but because of software/hardware problems. there was a time when shots started to fail and also lag was created when max cast speed was achieved.
btw, before creating any more mages, think about this
Dark Elf, INT+WIT 162 points
Kamael, INT+WIT 160 points
Elf, INT+WIT 158 points
Human, INT+WIT 157 points
Dwarf, INT+WIT 154 points
Orc, INT+WIT 151 points
Now imagine you add around 29 WIT points to a light elf :
84 + 29 = 113 Wit !
If you ever did that you would know that in PvP nobody (no mage) is going to hit you no matter how high m.attack they have. And the critical rate would be very high.
Same for Dagger/Archer Evasion > strong auto attacks with no accuracy.
Dark Elf mages have always been better than their light elf counterparts in PvE only makes sense they would eventually supplant them in PvP as well given that cast speed is capped and the ability to reach that cap no matter what natural Wit you have gets easier with each major update.
From the beginning Dark Elves always did more damage per spell, they were the only mage with real mp regen ablities, the only mage with a drain spell, the only mage with a good special spell (hello death spike), the only mage with a good level 79 buff (empowering echo anyone?). ( I would argue that no mage has a drain spell anymore making this a mute point).
Light elves always got the short end of the stick because seperate but always resulted in light elves receiving inferior treatment when it came to new "seperate but equal spells". The only area where light elves exceeded dark elves was AoE but for many of us light elven mages AoE parties all but died out after C3 when NC made the unfair change which reduced the number of mobs which could be affected by a AoE spell from infinity to 20 even though they did not reduce the number of mobs a pole weapon could hit (if you don't think that is unfair then you don't know what unfair means).
For a party or raid boss light elven mages were always the class of last result because they did the least damage and had no actual mana regen so 10 minutes into a grinding session or raid boss the Spellsingers mana would reach zero and their already low damage output dropped to 0 damage per second while dark elves could still body to mind and toss out a spell here and there though even they were better subbed with any class that did physical damage as those classes could DPS nonstop 24/7 due to not having their damage output artificially constrained by a stupid mp system.
And I think the Feoh horse is fugly and wish we got a pretty horse like every other class. A good choice would be to swap the Feoh's and Tyr's horses, or give Feoh's a horse made out of magic (glowing blue transparent horse).
Yeah, don't forget thought that elf has the highest WIT on game.
Practically that means ELF mystic has the highter mag critical rate on l2 and the best Reuse on game. Wit is not just cast, and personally i wouldnt change my elf feoh for anything in the world.
INT is good for m att and m crit damage but wit + mental from elf rock :).
SO:
MEN = High mp regeneration +m def + resist mental + Concenration
WIT = m evasion + m crit + cast + m resist rate + reuse
INT = M.attack + m critical damage
Personally i prefer elves on feoh rather than d.elves.
And the limit 1999 gives the elves the opportunity to focus on rising int cause they have high wit + men WHILE d.elves have to focus on rising
int more + wit + men (Usually they don't do anything about men and have emp echo so they run out of mana easily) :S.
+1 for elves
The regen from Men is so small you may as well consider it to not increase regeneration rate at all.
If a Feoh is aoeing then they will blow threw their mana like no tomorrow because the AoE spells cost a lot of mp when they shouldn't cost any more than another nuke.
Are you sure? ... Go to check the iss enchanter horse and tell me which is the most horrible mount! :)
I love the Iss horse! It looks exactly like a chestnut pony should look.
A feoh's horse is a drab color with some armor on it that I don't like the look of. A feoh's horse should look like a magical construction, so it should look like one of the translucent unicorns that Elemental Summoners use only larger and with a saddle.
But really, there was an obvious need to nerf the Casting speed (or rather, cap it). Light Elves were able to get above 1900 with just Buffs and Gear (almost cap it with Epics) when other classes were struggling to get to 1700 and with things like Hero Zerk and Reuse Buffs the Nukers shot off almost instantly with basically instant reuse.
It was so fast that sometimes your BSPS didn't get get on some of the nukes fast enough. They could kill anything from across the field.
This has become an issue again now that buffs were improved a bit past awakening (higher %s) and Tats allow you to increase two stats in the same slot.
Since nukes have a higher base reuse now there's no way you'll ever be able to see that kind of power (not to mention Wizard has been rebalanced such that they don't just Vortex - Spam Hydro - Crusher like they used to).
Oh, and without a Casting Speed cap a Light Elf Mage (or really, any Wizard pariod) with Buffs and Enlightenment/Wizard Spirit would be severely OP. We'd probably all have to eat a nerf just so the OP and people like him could be happy - the same way it's rumored they are going to do something about keeping Blue Tag Skills becuase of Dark Elves stacking Emp Echo and Arcane Power past awakening. You can probably think some emo light elves for that as well. They're mostly the only ones complaining about that, too...
The Dark Elves will always have that advantage over you - always, because of their higher Base INT and night-time passive. And even in something like the Olympiad they will still plow you a lot of the time due to Desparation so even with higher casting speed they will simply be untargettable for 4-5 seconds and still get the first stun off on you. There's no way around this. You won't win it.
And NCSoft will not uncap casting speed because Mages are already powerful enough. More exists than just one class and two races in this game. If it matters, that much, then reroll and switch your gear over to your new Dark Elf Feoh.
So basically you are acknowledging that there is a huge balance issue between light elves and dark elves but then saying that light elves just have to accept being inferior to dark elves for no justifiable reason other than your own bias against them?
I'm not really sure how you can say that mages would be overpowered without a casting speed cap when all that would is allow light elves to maybe pick up an extra 200 to 300 casting speed which wouldn't be a problem because their higher casting speed is balanced by their lower magic attack such that a light elf and a dark elf with the same level of gear optimized for their specific race would have the same damager per second. However with a casting speed cap this there is no damage per second balance because dark elves who always have the magic attack advantage will now be able to obtain the same casting speed as the fastest casting light elf even though light elves were supposed to have the higher casting speed to make up for their lower magic attack.
It is obvious to anyone using a little bit of logic that dark elves pareto dominate light elves when they are allowed to have the same casting speed and a higher magic attack than a light elf can hope to obtain with the same or different gear and this is clearly unfair for light elves and needs to be balanced by either giving light elves more magic attack when they go over the casting speed cap or removing the casting speed cap so that light elves will finally be able to have the same damage per second output as their dark elf counterparts which is how the game was supposed to be designed from the beginning.
Right now dark elves have a higher damage per second than light elves and there is no way to say that this is fair when their isn't a sufficient system in place to offset this damage difference in some other manner. There will only be balance when two conditions are met as closely as possible:
1) Dark elves and light elves have similar DPS
2) When a dark elf and light elf of equal gear, level and skill face off there is a 50% chance that the dark elf wins and a 50% chance that the light elf wins
Hello, just returned to the game after a long time! I'm a 53 orc overlord but I have the option to class change with my stone of destiny after I do a bit of leveling. Would a Orc be a bad race choice for a wizard? When it comes to statistics? I do like the look of robes on orcs though :)
All this from a PvP stand point. Never got to try pvp back in the day because I was always low level, was excited to give OL/Dom a try in pvp.
Anyways, whats most fun or better for solo AND group pvp?
Hello, just returned to the game after a long time! I'm a 53 orc overlord but I have the option to class change with my stone of destiny after I do a bit of leveling. Would a Orc be a bad race choice for a wizard? When it comes to statistics? I do like the look of robes on orcs though :)
All this from a PvP stand point. Never got to try pvp back in the day because I was always low level, was excited to give OL/Dom a try in pvp.
Anyways, whats most fun or better for solo AND group pvp?
Enchanter or Wizard, thanks.
You can't solo without Iss buffs and it is easier to get into a group as a Feoh than an Iss because there are soooo many lower level Isses.
Stat wise orc wizards are pretty terrible as they are towards the bottom in terms of Int and Wit. I also don't believe that Orcs have an racial skills which would normally be usefull to Feohs.
So basically you are acknowledging that there is a huge balance issue between light elves and dark elves but then saying that light elves just have to accept being inferior to dark elves for no justifiable reason other than your own bias against them?
I'm not really sure how you can say that mages would be overpowered without a casting speed cap when all that would is allow light elves to maybe pick up an extra 200 to 300 casting speed which wouldn't be a problem because their higher casting speed is balanced by their lower magic attack such that a light elf and a dark elf with the same level of gear optimized for their specific race would have the same damager per second. However with a casting speed cap this there is no damage per second balance because dark elves who always have the magic attack advantage will now be able to obtain the same casting speed as the fastest casting light elf even though light elves were supposed to have the higher casting speed to make up for their lower magic attack.
It is obvious to anyone using a little bit of logic that dark elves pareto dominate light elves when they are allowed to have the same casting speed and a higher magic attack than a light elf can hope to obtain with the same or different gear and this is clearly unfair for light elves and needs to be balanced by either giving light elves more magic attack when they go over the casting speed cap or removing the casting speed cap so that light elves will finally be able to have the same damage per second output as their dark elf counterparts which is how the game was supposed to be designed from the beginning.
Right now dark elves have a higher damage per second than light elves and there is no way to say that this is fair when their isn't a sufficient system in place to offset this damage difference in some other manner. There will only be balance when two conditions are met as closely as possible:
1) Dark elves and light elves have similar DPS
2) When a dark elf and light elf of equal gear, level and skill face off there is a 50% chance that the dark elf wins and a 50% chance that the light elf wins
Dark Elves only dominate due to the mechanic chances.
Mechanics were changed because Elves were absolutely OP with decent gear and great buffs due to their ability to machine gun off nukes coupled with Cancel and Stackable 900 Range Slows (which had really high BLRs).
Once NCSoft moved away from being able to compensate a lower DPM by eliminating reuse and skyrocketing your casting speed to kingdom come, the Dark Elves instantly got better. That happened precicely when they decouped spell reuse from casting speed. The free reuse from the extra casting speed is what was most powerful, not the sheer casting speed. The Mystic Muse never felt the same (in general play, PvE and PvP) once they decoupled that and set a base reuse to spells that resulted in stifled chain-casting (My Sub on my Soultaker was Mystic Muse, so I'm not playing guesswork here).
Even with capped casting speed, SPS still had an edge because the higher casting speed still reduced their spell reuse, it was the reuse nerf that really hurt Elves, not the casting speed cap since even back then an SH Human and Dark Elf Nukers could get to 1700 casting speed without much issues. Once they decoupled the reuse and set a higher base spell reuse, the casting difference between StSc < AM/ST < MM became laughable outside of the Olympiad where people had terrible buffs and you could Vortex/Crusher most opponents to near death.
You needed a stacked Toon with Epics and maybe +5 WIT to reliably get over 1999 casting speed (or be Hero), assuming a DC/Dynasty/Vesper Robe Set.
We've had this discussion before, huge threads, years ago.
Capping the casting speed is not the big nerf. Decoupling the reuse from the Casting Speed is what really hurt as it allowed SPS to use higher DPM and CC (Cancel, Slows, Vortex/Crusher, etc.) skills more often than the other nukers nevermind more nukes equate to more crit chances in equivalent span of time. I think that is why Feoh Mystic Muse if being given some spell reuse in the proposed "Class Diversification."
The only difference is that it is not going to be nearly as powerful in the current mechanics governing Feoh Wizard gameplay, because it is no longer balanced around spamming the same nuke for most of its damage output - as the old, simpler, Wizard classes were ( [Debuff-]Vortex-Crusher-Spam Hydro/Prom/Hurricane ),
You can't solo without Iss buffs and it is easier to get into a group as a Feoh than an Iss because there are soooo many lower level Isses.
Stat wise orc wizards are pretty terrible as they are towards the bottom in terms of Int and Wit. I also don't believe that Orcs have an racial skills which would normally be usefull to Feohs.
Undying, and they also have +10 Fire Attribute, which is way more useful than Earth (Dwarf) or Dark (Kamael). Their trigger skill is useless, though, yes.
With the way M.Atk scales, I really don't think it's something I'd really lose sleep over, either, unless you plan to be a competitive Olympiad player.