Ever since GD went live, there have been many threads started to complain about multi-boxing. In fact, there is such widespread anti-boxing sentiment that I thought I'd create a friendly poll to sample the playerbase and get a better idea of why specifically those who voice opposition to boxing do so. Thank you for your participation!
You forgot the option "I barely have enough brain function to operate a toaster and breathe at the same time so it is unfair that others can play multiple toons".
you forgot the option "i barely have enough brain function to operate a toaster and breathe at the same time so it is unfair that others can play multiple toons".
lawl ^^
I don't see why private server people would complain about boxing since it was/is done on just about any private server out there.
The only legit argument, as far as I'm concerned is the lacking hardware one. And you can hardly expect anyone to take that into consideration, because where does it end ...?
I think he's a double account of Vampire. They write in similar manners and share similar views.
BTW, most of the complaints seem to come from private servers people...
lol ofcoarse it comes from PSpeople...lol
cause official never banned dual boxing or trio boxing or train boxin )))
PSpeople should shovel it up and go back to PS, they have same store items and more "real" ppl behind the screen so they can help their little friends (yeah sure) i still dont understand why trade you Best Private Server free off bots and free of dual boxing for official game where we do what we payed for(well long ago)
PSpeople listen to us, to US veterans on P2P L2 game, go back to your servers unless u stop complaining about how we play L2...
if you dont like dual boxing go back to private server
swoosh!
and i VOted my main is a buffer, and i still have boxes! its easier to lvl them when i have High Lvl main BUFFER!
and i HAVE nothing aGainst DUAL/QuatraDOOOPLE boxing
You forgot the option "I barely have enough brain function to operate a toaster and breathe at the same time so it is unfair that others can play multiple toons".
He is. Check out the Off Topic forums (if the thread is still there).
That thread was the exact reason I started thinking he created a fake, and a bad one too ashuashushuah.
That thread was the exact reason I started thinking he created a fake, and a bad one too ashuashushuah.
And using a different account to post after being banned is against the rules.
i come from private server, why i no hit mob; level to 99?
iz br custom know gaemplay, EveningPrimeRose. but anyways sentiment point argued has proven. we;re legit players no get get ISS buffs box x2 = unfair.
goodbye
I originally boxed a dark elf female cause they are hot and wanted to watch her buff me all day and night. Little did I know she would actually be helpful and a must have on most excursions (wow, just like my wife).
I come from a private server and have no idea what I'm talking about anyways.
lol ofcoarse it comes from PSpeople...lol
cause official never banned dual boxing or trio boxing or train boxin )))
PSpeople should shovel it up and go back to PS, they have same store items and more "real" ppl behind the screen so they can help their little friends (yeah sure) i still dont understand why trade you Best Private Server free off bots and free of dual boxing for official game where we do what we payed for(well long ago)
PSpeople listen to us, to US veterans on P2P L2 game, go back to your servers unless u stop complaining about how we play L2...
if you dont like dual boxing go back to private server
swoosh!
and i VOted my main is a buffer, and i still have boxes! its easier to lvl them when i have High Lvl main BUFFER!
and i HAVE nothing aGainst DUAL/QuatraDOOOPLE boxing
He is. Check out the Off Topic forums (if the thread is still there).
He's not even a good alt.
Hey Vorpal, quit dual-boxing the forums!!
i come from private server, why i no hit mob; level to 99?
iz br custom know gaemplay, EveningPrimeRose. but anyways sentiment point argued has proven. we;re legit players no get get ISS buffs box x2 = unfair.
goodbye
RECRUITAKAJA BR 15+ good clan.
p.s. adena pl0x?
On topic: My main is a buffer
Off topic:
1. Do you remember 6 months ago when the wind was blowing strong on this forum and on the 2 servers, because it were hardly 500 real players here?
Now you make fun of the people who came from PS? You can afford now, you think you are some little geniuses . (Role models, like someone said in other topic)
2. Top PS were way more appreciated than the NA retail because they had skilled players and valuable staff members, even though they ran an older chronicle.
3. Do you think I care that you payed in the past for countless accounts?
Guess again.
4. PS != BR
Best private servers were european or russian.
5. PS players are not spoiled dumb kids. I play this game for 7 years and I always been in mature clans. (Lots of members over 30y old)
I don't complain about boxes but I always regret of what this game could be in pure form of "world simulation" (though I also know people are too stupid, to appreciate such utopia, so this could never happen :P )
Off topic:
1. Do you remember 6 months ago when the wind was blowing strong on this forum and on the 2 servers, because it were hardly 500 real players here?
Now you make fun of the people who came from PS? You can afford now, you think you are some little geniuses . (Role models, like someone said in other topic)
2. Top PS were way more appreciated than the NA retail because they had skilled players and valuable staff members, even though they ran an older chronicle.
3. Do you think I care that you payed in the past for countless accounts?
Guess again.
4. PS != BR
Best private servers were european or russian.
5. PS players are not spoiled dumb kids. I play this game for 7 years and I always been in mature clans. (Lots of members over 30y old)
I also come from private server, and I'm better than any of the people that you quoted :)
5. PS players are not spoiled dumb kids. I play this game for 7 years and I always been in mature clans. (Lots of members over 30y old)
I've seen a lot of private server players who couldn't get right from left, or use their classes properly, or be at least polite. Maybe it's their real age, but it's a fact that many private server players were
1-kids without the legal age to own a CC
2-people who couldn't afford an account on official
and I bet the first group is the most populated one.
Off topic:
1. Do you remember 6 months ago when the wind was blowing strong on this forum and on the 2 servers, because it were hardly 500 real players here?
Now you make fun of the people who came from PS? You can afford now, you think you are some little geniuses . (Role models, like someone said in other topic)
2. Top PS were way more appreciated than the NA retail because they had skilled players and valuable staff members, even though they ran an older chronicle.
3. Do you think I care that you payed in the past for countless accounts?
Guess again.
4. PS != BR
Best private servers were european or russian.
5. PS players are not spoiled dumb kids. I play this game for 7 years and I always been in mature clans. (Lots of members over 30y old)
I don't know why you quoted me in your tirade. I didn't say anything about PS people.
whats the worst NC can do? ban him again? let the free accounts flow!!
I don't give a wet slap whether he gets banned or not. I was just point out a fact. Truthfully, he's somewhat entertaining taken in small doses.
Off topic:
1. Do you remember 6 months ago when the wind was blowing strong on this forum and on the 2 servers, because it were hardly 500 real players here?
Now you make fun of the people who came from PS? You can afford now, you think you are some little geniuses . (Role models, like someone said in other topic)
2. Top PS were way more appreciated than the NA retail because they had skilled players and valuable staff members, even though they ran an older chronicle.
3. Do you think I care that you payed in the past for countless accounts?
Guess again.
4. PS != BR
Best private servers were european or russian.
5. PS players are not spoiled dumb kids. I play this game for 7 years and I always been in mature clans. (Lots of members over 30y old)
Well said, and i totally agree with that,
Before L2 become f2p there were almost 500 ppl active on each server,and now some nerds who had daddy's credit card,acting cool cuz they were paying to play this game, but guess did you have fun times when your servers were almost dead? i guess not, i bet that when they made this game f2p you just got back your ''smile''.
l2 taught us 2 things, NO competition, no FUN!
lol ofcoarse it comes from PSpeople...lol
cause official never banned dual boxing or trio boxing or train boxin )))
PSpeople should shovel it up and go back to PS, they have same store items and more "real" ppl behind the screen so they can help their little friends (yeah sure) i still dont understand why trade you Best Private Server free off bots and free of dual boxing for official game where we do what we payed for(well long ago)
PSpeople listen to us, to US veterans on P2P L2 game, go back to your servers unless u stop complaining about how we play L2...
if you dont like dual boxing go back to private server
swoosh!
and i VOted my main is a buffer, and i still have boxes! its easier to lvl them when i have High Lvl main BUFFER!
and i HAVE nothing aGainst DUAL/QuatraDOOOPLE boxing
If PS people go back to PS as you said, you will have bad issues with online :)
Enjoy this game, because PS people made it again ALIVE!
Acting is bad for health,trust me cuz i have done it many times :)
So that is three 2004 players one after another saying they want shut of you. Is that not enough?
A wise man once made a great post comparing private server players to hot dog thieves. You're stealing my hot dogs man! Not only have you stolen my hot dogs, you're now back here gloating about it.
So that is three 2004 players one after another saying they want shut of you. Is that not enough?
I am a 2004 player, no need to argue with who is the OLDEST player in l2.
I think boxing is not an issue and has never been an issue, back when I started this game, having two accounts was better for my play style. Most players even to this date want the damage character as their main and to get that you have both a buffer and a DD. Hell 3 months ago it my DC was one of the most wanted characters in game.
Off topic
I hear a lot of players saying us private server people make the servers alive now. Player count, server size and blah blah blah, the truth is this. People were 85 before goddess came out, hell a lot of players had sub max level also. The game was at a stand still, in every update the population goes up and goes back down again. The game is 7 almost 8 years old in April, but there still was a healthy base of players back before f2p
About 4-5 months ago Lineage 2 had a dynasty weapon event happened and many double exp and drop happened. Any account activated got a free dynasty weapon, to me that was the biggest recruit of actual players and really helped the server. People came back because of double exp events and events like this. With this f2p yeah we may have more players but it doesn't mean jack, just wait until people get level 99 then what is going to happen? If Ncsoft really thinks that people will buy items when they get to end game think again. Also, how many are actually buying items, or is it just a certain group that are die hard, even those people will eventually get to where they need to be, and then what? Level 110, and then level 95 gear and level becomes easier? I guess we just have to wait and see.
I don't give a wet slap whether he gets banned or not. I was just point out a fact. Truthfully, he's somewhat entertaining taken in small doses.
Can I have a wet slap please?
And as for the in game store as someone mentioned I don't buy much of anything even though I'm stuck with a wad of ncoins thanks to the refund methods for paid in advance accounts. I just don't think there's much value in the stuff because those packs you are stuck with everything in it and most of it is junk to me.
And yes I was having fun with empty servers. I had everything I needed and no problem getting anything I wanted.
Before L2 become f2p there were almost 500 ppl active on each server,and now some nerds who had daddy's credit card,acting cool cuz they were paying to play this game, but guess did you have fun times when your servers were almost dead?
We had more fun than we have now. Because people that we were seeing back then were actually worth interacting with.
While almost all people that started playing since then only cause failed groups, server lags and login problems.
It's better to have just 500 active people than 500 active people plus 5500 active idiots :rolleyes:
We had more fun than we have now. Because people that we were seeing back then were actually worth interacting with.
While almost all people that started playing since then only cause failed groups, server lags and login problems.
It's better to have just 500 active people than 500 active people plus 5500 active idiots :rolleyes:
Totally agree, 5500 active, 3-4.5k botting because now it's free and nothing to loose, so in theory it really didn't bring the population up, it just brought the money traders, unlegits, and afker's way better game, SARCASM!
Time spent on private servers does not count for squat.
why? because instead of having 600 pdef (retail like) I had 601?
because instead of failing 3 death spike (magic resist), I failed only 2?
because we enjoyed playing a game for 3 hours a day, while you were grinding the nights to have the same result?
because the staff of PS fixed or better said, modified server settings to players needs and you had to wait years for a chronicle to bring balance to your char?
Don't tell me the game was balanced here or you had only fun , no bugs at all, because I can give you hundreds of quotes(complaints) about the game mechanics posted here on forum over the years.
Yes, I read this forum, l2blah, stratics and all the info I could find about the game , since the day I've started, even though I played on private servers.
I made trial chars with every occasion, to get a glimpse at the great retail, to see what's different, to see what great wonders the retail hides.
I must tell you, trail accounts were way more limited the bots are now.
You paid here, thousands of players donated on private servers. The difference, here NCSoft took the money, there the staff of PS did.
I didn't paid for this game, because my clan members had jobs/family/kids to take care of. They couldn't come here, but even so we spent many nights camping epics, having fun at sieges/TW or back in the past, spoiling for D grade gloves.
- gloves of knowledge at tyrant in wasteland if I recall correctly
- rec karmian gloves at flower in cruma.
I see no difference between this sieges and the ones from PS. Oh wait, there are:
- here everyone is on the grass leeching fame
I see no difference between this market and the one from PS. Oh wait, there is:
- here we have lots of bots selling nothing and putting the weblink to some adena site as description
Is it so hard to find a GM to wander from town to town and ban those adena sellers?Is it so hard to forbid putting a link in party matching or private store description?
Even with my little programming skills, I'm sure I can do that.
Do you think you know the game better than me because you played on retail?
When you do the same thing hundreds of times, you will remember them even in your sleep.
- quests, especially class quest - done hundreds of times
- every mob in which area and what it drops/ spoils (P.S. don't tell you didn't search the web to find out where to spoil sop or steel)
If it wasn't for Truly free campaign, the NCSoft west would have fallen for good.
Players want to buy something they can see, play with..not a tax. And NCSoft understood that.
In the last 10 years, the internet filled with people who don't conceive to pay to have access. They want to pay to be better than the neighbour.
To have the sword shine brighter than the one's enemy have, to be the first on A list. Doesn't matter which list.
You all fight against censorship and the free circulation of information on the internet, but don't know what is all about.
Do you think you know the game better than me because you played on retail?
When you do the same thing hundreds of times, you will remember them even in your sleep.
- quests, especially class quest - done hundreds of times
- every mob in which area and what it drops/ spoils (P.S. don't tell you didn't search the web to find out where to spoil sop or steel)
If it wasn't for Truly free campaign, the NCSoft west would have fallen for good.
Players want to buy something they can see, play with..not a tax. And NCSoft understood that.
LOL
When the double exp events happened and dynasty weapons were giving before god and f2p I am sure ncsoft made no money! LOL
DarkWings, i must say i really admire your words, cuz thats exactly how i feel about this game,
PS: tss tss, don't mind about those 20k post users,or those ''real playa'' ''veterans for the jokes'' i can shut their pig mouths easily,i wont waste my words i get paid to shut nerds like these, compared to PS forums, this is so easy lol.
Did it take you that long?
no,that was just a proof that it did count ^^
More than likely ya.
As for servers dying without the ps cockroaches, nope, they were still alive before the invasion.
Now they are just crowded with morons.
Hey nerd with the duelist avatar,ask your ''tax collector'' if the server was dying or not. then come to talk, after that shuush. enjoy game cuz PS players made it alive again.
I don't think you're in any position to call him/her a nerd seeing you play the very same game,post on the same forums AND get this argue with the same people as him/her! Like anyone in your sad reality could care! It's like watching monkeys doing it with a football around here!
I don't think you're in any position to call him/her a nerd seeing you play the very same game,post on the same forums AND get this argue with the same people as him/her! Like anyone in your sad reality could care! It's like watching monkeys doing it with a football around here!
reason i called him nerd, is that he/and loads of others got too much air in brain.
And i don't see why not call him, when i sit and enjoy this very same game without complaining, while i see his posts about PS servers, if he don't like them then just shut it why call names? there is no difference with people here or in PS, oh wait here they all have daddy's credit card, BIG b@llz to talk about.
There is a difference between people here and some PS players. Not every PS player comes from decent private low rates that tryed of be as close to retail as posible. Some come from mid rates 15x-100x. And those servers are very crappy. Usualy they ban people for boxing and those PS players associate boxing whis boting and in their tiny minds that`s(boxing) a serious reson to get banned.
reason i called him nerd, is that he/and loads of others got too much air in brain.
And i don't see why not call him, when i sit and enjoy this very same game without complaining, while i see his posts about PS servers, if he don't like them then just shut it why call names? there is no difference with people here or in PS, oh wait here they all have daddy's credit card, BIG b@llz to talk about.
You were complaining about multi boxing were you not? You're calling names and even in that post I quoted you did it so you're nothing but a hypocrite. I get the feeling you don't pay for your accounts since that seems to be your epic insult of the day.
Let me get this straight, i wasn't complaining about dual box,i was giving examples how to reduce botting, yes i complain about botting cuz i never saw bot in PS servers except some random cr@ppy hell knows what private servers, was it clear? oh and trust me i pay to buy games that i really like,but we all know that we live in a world of crisis.Learn about economy values cuz duuurr huuuur derp derp my 4yr sis can pay as well for l2 acc is there a difference between you people and my sis? i think not.
Let me get this straight, i wasn't complaining about dual box,i was giving examples how to reduce botting, yes i complain about botting cuz i never saw bot in PS servers except some random cr@ppy hell knows what private servers, was it clear? oh and trust me i pay to buy games that i really like,but we all know that we live in a world of crisis.Learn about economy values cuz duuurr huuuur derp derp my 4yr sis can pay as well for l2 acc is there a difference between you people and my sis? i think not.
Does your four year old sister have a job? Does she pay a mortgage? Can she buy a car? Can she read? Can she even get a line of credit? That was the dumbest attempt at an insult ever
The "i play retail im pro, you play ps you sux" is the most ignorant type of comment.
Both of these sux at something anyway, the retail player has generaly more knowledge about a specific type of class and about economy/market. PS player has more basic knowledge about all game skills and gear and stats but generally won't get better of players who spent their life-> no-lifing on the same class.
Ofc this was valid mostly pre-god cause all classes were known the same for years. Now u all sux:D
@1Peri1: how old were you since you started l2?huh? did you wait to get 18 and then just got your credit card/job/car at same time l2 ? that was the dumbest tryhard way to shut me.and of course my mother can use her credit card for my sis, there isn't something difficult in that lol. Fail sometimes hurts man,don't continue this cuz you might fall into a sticky hole and won't get out.
Also to add: that previous comment of mine was ''sarcasm'' to how all you people ''paid2play''
Well said, and i totally agree with that,
Before L2 become f2p there were almost 500 ppl active on each server,and now some nerds who had daddy's credit card,acting cool cuz they were paying to play this game, but guess did you have fun times when your servers were almost dead? i guess not, i bet that when they made this game f2p you just got back your ''smile''.
l2 taught us 2 things, NO competition, no FUN!
Before L2 was F2P you and the person you quoted couldn't be bothered to pay to be here to pester us so...
You people have absolutely no right to talk about people who just "came here cause it's F2P and they have daddy's CC" when they could have just used the same CC to pay a subscription before, while you "mature people" were paying to win on PServers.
Hey nerd with the duelist avatar,ask your ''tax collector'' if the server was dying or not. then come to talk, after that shuush. enjoy game cuz PS players made it alive again.
Server was more than alive before they got here. And the game was more than enjoyable too.
It's actually less enjoyable now with all the ps cockroaches clogging up the server.
PS players play PS coz they dont have to pay anything. Now they play retail. They add nothing to keep the servers alive.
If the servers were all free 2 play cockroaches, the servers would shut down, coz of no income.
Oh why do I even bother explaining this, you probably wont understand this anyway....
I miss CN adena farmers. I would take them over the PS dropout crowd any day. I understand that L2 has been slowly bleeding to death, but I think it has less to do with the $15/mo and more to do with the Korean developers. One, a lack of vision for the game's future; two, a lack of responsiveness to player requests. Look at EVE online, it has been charging $15/mo and is just as old as L2, yet its population goes up little by little, month by month, and always has, because of those two things. L2 had a big spike with GD, but unless the devs have completely changed their philosophy towards the game, L2 will go back to bleeding out just like it always has.
As for P2P versus F2P, okay whatever. But I think the one-time $20 should have remained.
There main difference as I see it between private server players and official server players is this. Private server players are all thieves. NCSoft sold a product for years. They enjoyed this product and didn't put a penny into their pocket. That makes them thieves.
PS: tss tss, don't mind about those 20k post users,or those ''real playa'' ''veterans for the jokes'' i can shut their pig mouths easily,i wont waste my words i get paid to shut nerds like these, compared to PS forums, this is so easy lol.
Bring it.
Server was more than alive before they got here. And the game was more than enjoyable too.
It's actually less enjoyable now with all the ps cockroaches clogging up the server.
PS players play PS coz they dont have to pay anything. Now they play retail. They add nothing to keep the servers alive.
If the servers were all free 2 play cockroaches, the servers would shut down, coz of no income.
1: fun time with bots cool story,gimme more.(also if you mention the really old days of retail, then you did't get my point i am talking about 2 years ago what was going on with your servers.bleeding to death as some guy above mentioned)
Ncsoft would have kept it P2P if it was alive, why let money run away & let it free?
There main difference as I see it between private server players and official server players is this. Private server players are all thieves. NCSoft sold a product for years. They enjoyed this product and didn't put a penny into their pocket. That makes them thieves.
2.Wait what?thieves?hmm..if all the PS players were thieves then my friend we wouldn't donate on PS,also there are 2 ways of donation, 1: donate to buy smth in other words ''win win''. & 2: donate for server to stay alive,and quit the ''all thieves'' cuz retail have plenty of scammers in it.
Bring it.
3. balls? want them?
PS: seriously i am done with this,i don't really like breaking hearts,but you should think that talking about PS players like they are some garbage is too racist.
so enjoy this Epic game and most important have fun.
2.Wait what?thieves?hmm..if all the PS players were thieves then my friend we wouldn't donate on PS,also there are 2 ways of donation, 1: donate to buy smth in other words ''win win''. & 2: donate for server to stay alive,and quit the ''all thieves'' cuz retail have plenty of scammers in it.
So when you donated to your private server that money went to upkeep and development of the game by NCSoft did it? No? Then you're a thief, in the exact same way that somebody who steals a movie or any other piece of software is. Now we have all downloaded movies in the past, I am sure, but lets call an apple an apple. It is software piracy, and software piracy holds up to a $250,000 fine and a jail term of up to five years in the US ((source (http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/wp/copyright-2002/softwarepiracyfaqs.html#16). Note I am not from the US, it's just the first source I found). Now the chances are you wont get fined or jailed, but the principle is there.
lol ofcoarse it comes from PSpeople...lol
cause official never banned dual boxing or trio boxing or train boxin )))
PSpeople should shovel it up and go back to PS, they have same store items and more "real" ppl behind the screen so they can help their little friends (yeah sure) i still dont understand why trade you Best Private Server free off bots and free of dual boxing for official game where we do what we payed for(well long ago)
PSpeople listen to us, to US veterans on P2P L2 game, go back to your servers unless u stop complaining about how we play L2...
if you dont like dual boxing go back to private server
swoosh!
and i VOted my main is a buffer, and i still have boxes! its easier to lvl them when i have High Lvl main BUFFER!
and i HAVE nothing aGainst DUAL/QuatraDOOOPLE boxing
U are whining a lot about PSpeople.u act like P2P old ppls kick *****.WOW.clap clap.well same guys like YOU complain about boting ALSO.let me ask u something.IN sieges where u see trains with full programs auto assisting etc etc who are making those?PS guys??NOOOO.it was YOU the P2P OLD guys and not the PS guys.in GOG,in LOA,in MOS and tonz of other places full boted also it is from YOU the OLD P2P GUYS not the PS guys!YOU should be happy that PS guys came here to make the game more LIVE.
About boxing it is ok imo.many american time guys cant find pts in that hours they play (i talk about chronos where i play) so they are forced kinda to boxing for soloing asap or whatever they want to do since they cant find live ppls
PS:i am Europe time player so i never needed boxing,i alwayes formed my pts asap without problems and never needed boxing
YOU should be happy that PS guys came here to make the game more LIVE.
Let's compare, before F2P aka PS flood - no lags/minor lags during sieges, rare server issues/stable servers, bots barely noticeable, less scrubs, less zr, less to no whining in boards. Since F2P, well, everyone noticed the changes.... so.... thank you PS guys;)
Top players on most Private Servers paid to win, what's the difference?
The diference is how old retail players talk about how easy P servers are and PS servers know nothing cause they advance too fast, and yet retail players bot coz the game is too hard and boring and can't pvp without pvp programs.
Also thieves are the server's owners, not the players. If you don't agree with this logic we are all thieves for downloading music and movies, cause you didn't pay jack for it.
You all are terrible, PS players or retail players, end of story.
PS: this game is suposed to be dual boxing on this side of the world, you won't find boxing on games that aren't buff dependant, as long as the buff system doesn't change, dual boxing will exist.
Also thieves are the server's owners, not the players. If you don't agree with this logic we are all thieves for downloading music and movies, cause you didn't pay jack for it.
Everybody who downloads a movie is stealing it, that is exactly the comment I made (or words to that effect) in my earlier post on this subject. Everybody who played L2 and never put money into NCSofts pocket when it was free to play is a thief. It's slightly more complex now it is a free to play model, but not much.
Top players on most Private Servers paid to win, what's the difference?
Exactly!! That's what I'm trying to say. Stop with this superiority act, because PS or retail players are no different.
You are not smarter, more beautiful, more wise or have bigger ballz.
I know lots of cases where players from retail come to play on PS because they were bored.
PS players and owners were thieves? Why then L2j is a legit branch?
Because some people spent years to give others a surprisenly accurate version of L2 for free. It was a challenge at coding level to decrypt, understand and recreate something free.(the L2 client->l2 PS)
The thievery has come from retail players, who used tools to gather infos about drops/skills/etc..
YOU stole for us and we thank you for that, but our hands are clean.
Everybody who downloads a movie is stealing it, that is exactly the comment I made (or words to that effect) in my earlier post on this subject. Everybody who played L2 and never put money into NCSofts pocket when it was free to play is a thief.
U smokin?
PS: acording to this dude we are all stealers, arrest everyone, ban the internet. Sad to see people taking this so personally cause...you didn't gain any kind of money to begin with, so not sure what the big issue is about actually. Also if we are all thieves, go ahead, claim your rights, sue us. Then again, you are probably just trolling.
NO, I used a FREE client downloadable from retail website.
Aaaaand what does that free client connect too? Either stolen (actually stolen) server software, or reverse engineered L2J software, both of which are... dun dun duuuuun... Software piracy.
@1Peri1: how old were you since you started l2?huh? did you wait to get 18 and then just got your credit card/job/car at same time l2 ? that was the dumbest tryhard way to shut me.and of course my mother can use her credit card for my sis, there isn't something difficult in that lol. Fail sometimes hurts man,don't continue this cuz you might fall into a sticky hole and won't get out.
Also to add: that previous comment of mine was ''sarcasm'' to how all you people ''paid2play''
Firstly I'm not a man and secondly I'm 29 nearly 30 years old so do the math.
Now I'll do you a favor and inform you since its painfully obvious your mom's basement doesn't teach you life skills.
L2 didn't come out until I was 21 troll. I bought a car when I was 18 because that's the legal age to get a loan genius. You can't legally get a credit card or a line of credit until you are 18. Most places won't give you any kind of loan until you've been at your job at least six months. No one helped me or bought it for me. If I wanted it I worked for it just like I'm still doing. I moved out of my parents house at 19 so don't even tell me I still live there in the basement as some fail insult method. Yes I'm married and yes I have a life and a job and still game a little.
I don't think anyone can tell your sarcasm from stupidity honestly
Peri just ignore him. Sooner or later his parents will catch him beating off to Sailor Moon and force him to eat his ADHD pills. And then he'll go away.
Peri just ignore him. Sooner or later his parents will catch him beating off to Sailor Moon and force him to eat his ADHD pills. And then he'll go away.
Aaaaand what does that free client connect too? Either stolen (actually stolen) server software, or reverse engineered L2J software, both of which are... dun dun duuuuun... Software piracy.
It's illegal to alterate the client files, that's why the L2J used the IP from host method.
Seriously, search on google before argueing with me.
you know who else kept talking about cokroaches like you do? the people involved in the Rwanda genocide, so much for those 12k post of yours and the " 2004 gang " BS about private server
like I said already, you people know nothing about private and just assume every random idiot you come by is from private, let me enlighten you, there are noobs/idiots everywhere, like that demonic kid who think he's smart, you just didn't see much of them untill F2P because they quit long ago
give it some time many people are leaving the game for whatever reason they have and quit the private BS, you're making yourselves look very bad
on topic, as a party leader I hate to have boxed ppl in my party because they aren't as efficient as my friends are, but I do have boxed Iss for subclass / daily solo
PS: sorry bad english, if I could speak my language to you you wouldn't understand anyting even with translator, oops
boxing is ok, that helps people with a single pc, to leveling faster without using bots, mentor or buy buff, in fact these buffers in follow should be level up because their buffs are insufficient.
for example with my paladin, arrive at lv 52 and was half slow lvl, then i make a warcyer until lvl 43, and follow with the pala until 56, then make the wc lvl 52, and now I have both chars at lvl 64
like I said already, you people know nothing about private and just assume every random idiot you come by is from private
WRONG! I've played a handful of servers and even GM'd on one for a friend running it. Every single petition was "give me this and GM give me that." Our rule was if you're going to farm (as in collect items needed to buy items) you do it legit. The limit was 2 box and anymore than that you were kicked and IP banned. People cried over pvp, how and where certain items were collected in order to buy gear etc.
The difference between retail and PS is that MOST retail players are willing to grind for hours we're used to it, PS players with the exception of a few. Whine,beg and demand and can't manage to xp for one full buff round and leave complaining it's not fast enough. Retail vets have every right to be entitled. We have stuck with L2 since the beginning through it all and now everyone pops in here thinking we should treat you as our equals. You've invested very little,we as veterans have invested 8 years into our accounts.
Given there are idiots in every game,but that population just quadrupled times a billion to the tenth power cubed in Lineage 2. And thinking about that made me throw up in my mouth a little.
you know who else kept talking about cokroaches like you do? the people involved in the Rwanda genocide, so much for those 12k post of yours and the " 2004 gang " BS about private server
like I said already, you people know nothing about private and just assume every random idiot you come by is from private, let me enlighten you, there are noobs/idiots everywhere, like that demonic kid who think he's smart, you just didn't see much of them untill F2P because they quit long ago
give it some time many people are leaving the game for whatever reason they have and quit the private BS, you're making yourselves look very bad
on topic, as a party leader I hate to have boxed ppl in my party because they aren't as efficient as my friends are, but I do have boxed Iss for subclass / daily solo
PS: sorry bad english, if I could speak my language to you you wouldn't understand anyting even with translator, oops
1. People complain about boxing because they expect everything handed to them free. They want lvel 99 now with red glowy, and OE'd set of R99 armor, with full tatts, strider, Max clan and skills, etc. (then complain there's nothing to do in game)
2. Private Servers are all Thieves. Torrents, Modified Software, etc are all examples of Stealing. It's just that the laws are struggling to catch up on the technology and enforcement is a Bi*ch, because everybody and their grandmother is torrenting like it's 1999.
It gets better, DVDs and CDs are going the way of the Dodo mainly because of torrenting. Steve Jobs was the only person who probably saved the music and movie industry, temporarily, by providing the industry an alternative distribution method. Before you idiots start coming in with your snide remarks. Think...If everybody torrented the latest music and movie, there will be no industry making said music and movie. You'll just be that annoying little brat complaining about why aren't there movies and music.
3. Lineage 2 could have been much better as a game if it wasn't for the leaked files. The funny thing is that with each subsequent expansion the files kept getting leaked. (that's one big gaping hole in your heart NCSoft kr) These stolen files (yes stolen files) were used for the enjoyment of thousands of players who did not pay one cent to NCsoft. That's millions of lost revenue for the math challenged.
4. Stealing one torrent is just a small lost, surely a multi-millionaire, company, etc can afford that? truly? After all we're sticking it to the 'man'. Add one hundred thousand players and you're suddenly facing a multi-million dollar lost, per month.
Regardless whether you're living in your mother's basement or you're having a job with a nice house and car. You're still a god**** thief when you torrent or play on a private server. The funny thing is that everybody is doing it, which makes it ok to steal in the 21st century.
you know who else kept talking about cokroaches like you do? the people involved in the Rwanda genocide,
whoa, is this a good time to bust out ******-comparisons?
and I get a warning for complaining about a dev choice... :rolleyes:
Derailed thread...
1. People complain about boxing because they expect everything handed to them free. They want lvel 99 now with red glowy, and OE'd set of R99 armor, with full tatts, strider, Max clan and skills, etc. (then complain there's nothing to do in game)
2. Private Servers are all Thieves. Torrents, Modified Software, etc are all examples of Stealing. It's just that the laws are struggling to catch up on the technology and enforcement is a Bi*ch, because everybody and their grandmother is torrenting like it's 1999...
look at Mr Software Patenting Lobbyist over here, prolly thinks every torrent is an illegal one... "lost potential revenue" and "stealing" are completely unrelated. If somebody jumps in front of my train and I miss a client meeting, that suicidee didn't "steal" money from me. Please stop letting mainstream media spoon feed you your beliefs. A crapload of game producers (including NCsoft) use peer2peer torrent systems to get updates out.
NCsoft actually had a great opportunity here to have all their **** fixed by free employees, unfortunately they don't allow for any way for it to flow back, because they employ your "OMGSUE!!!11one" paradigm
I know a few ppl who started off on a (low rate) private server, got curious, bought a retail account and quit after seeing how **** retail was. Wouldn't that be gained revenue?
your logic is as flawed as the logic of the whole media industry: Just because someone illegally downloaded something, doesn't mean they would have paid for it if they had no means of acquiring it for free.
And this is even more true for the private servers, since there's actually a distinct difference in experience and service.
like, say you really really liked C1 and everything after that was ****, what are you to do now? play tera online and reminisce those good old C1 days?
I'm sorry to inform you, but this day and age, people generally don't sit around feeling happy about getting shafted by "the man"... they tend to take matters in their own hands, even if this means breaking certain laws in certain countries
do I think software piracy is okay? of course not, I'm a developer myself, but I know software piracy exists, and instead of QQing about it in court and the media, I change my business model to accommodate for that. I develop free and open source software. Most of the things I wrote are freely available under a GPL/MIT license and most don't even have my name under it. Yet I manage to lead a comfortable life, most days I'm free to do whatever and on some I review patches my "clients" wrote
you know the music and tv industries tried to sue the **** out of the tape recorder? and again with the VCR... Do you really think they're in for the best intentions towards humanity and innovation?
Given there are idiots in every game,but that population just quadrupled times a billion to the tenth power cubed in Lineage 2. And thinking about that made me throw up in my mouth a little.
"lost potential revenue" and "stealing" are completely unrelated. If somebody jumps in front of my train and I miss a client meeting, that suicidee didn't "steal" money from me.
If you partake in the furtherence of a crime, which in the previous example, was using (aka logging into) an L2J server that was in itself illegal to be operated. then you are commiting a crime. Whether that is aiding and abetting, or some other is to be debated; at the minimum, you are breaking the EULA which comes with the client you downloaded to log into the illegal server.
Your analogy of the person jumping in front of the train does not equate to you accessing an illegal server. In many countries however, suicide is illegal, but that is a whole other can of worms.
I don't think the "private servers = stealing" argument is very good.
Intellectual property, both as a concept and as implemented by law, is a scam. Ideas are not property because property must be scarce, and ideas are not scarce.
If you have a milkshake and someone else drinks it, that milkshake is gone forever and you can never drink it. Your property (the milkshake) has been consumed by someone else. If you hadn't given/traded it to this other person voluntarily, then it was stolen. A milkshake is property.
If you write a poem and email it to someone else, and that person reads (consumes) your poem, you can still read it, too. You both can read it over and over again, forever, and doing so will never affect each other's ability to read the poem. A poem is not property.
If NCsoft is careless with their server source code, it gets leaked, and someone uses it to start up a private server...that is NCsoft's internal HR/management problem. Not a legal one.
The problem with private servers is they aren't "official" or "canonical". Private servers provide a "second-hand" Lineage 2 experience. Also, you are likely but not guaranteed to have better service from NCsoft than some random private server.
However, the thousands of man hours and millions of pounds that NCSoft pumped into the development of the Lineage series ARE scarce.
If you write a poem and email it to someone else, and that person reads (consumes) your poem, you can still read it, too. You both can read it over and over again, forever, and doing so will never affect each other's ability to read the poem. A poem is not property.
If you planned on selling the poem for £15, yet the guy you mailed it to publishes it as his own work and makes £1,000,000, that is a potential £1,000,015 he has stolen from you.
I cant see the point of lv something like a buffer :S I got to lv 76 with mentor buff and we can always buy (cheap) at Aden Church. I dont like to share exp with a box... A lv 85+ party allways will prefer an active ISS cuz can debuff mobs and add some damage.
I cant see the point of lv something like a buffer :S I got to lv 76 with mentor buff and we can always buy (cheap) at Aden Church. I dont like to share exp with a box... A lv 85+ party allways will prefer an active ISS cuz can debuff mobs and add some damage.
I am an Iss, leveling an Iss on a second account. Allow me to explain the logic... The second Iss gets me loads of Mentor coins. He allows me to have perma-buffs on my alts and Subs. He also gives me a whole bunch of adena from the drops as he levels (which is a minor consideration, admittedly).
The old l2launcher itself leaked server-files. It did happen. And wasn't just 1 time. You cannot say the user stole the files, as they went to their PC from just using Update/check file function from launcher.
If you partake in the furtherence of a crime, which in the previous example, was using (aka logging into) an L2J server that was in itself illegal to be operated. then you are commiting a crime. Whether that is aiding and abetting, or some other is to be debated; at the minimum, you are breaking the EULA which comes with the client you downloaded to log into the illegal server.
Your analogy of the person jumping in front of the train does not equate to you accessing an illegal server. In many countries however, suicide is illegal, but that is a whole other can of worms.
Jumping in front of a train is illegal in most countries afaik. If you survive, expect to get sued to ****.
A lot of L2J servers are run in countries where it is not illegal to run such software. But isn't L2J emulated? as in, their only offenses are the use of names and stealing graphics, right? L2OFF servers is a different thing, they run altered source. But your only offense as a user would be modifying the client.
However, the thousands of man hours and millions of pounds that NCSoft pumped into the development of the Lineage series ARE scarce.
If you planned on selling the poem for £15, yet the guy you mailed it to publishes it as his own work and makes £1,000,000, that is a potential £1,000,015 he has stolen from you.
you think C devs are scarce? you think korean C dev man hours are scarce???
if you "planned" to sell it for £15, you shouldn't have given it away for free without any license or copyright. You're lucky he doesn't copyright it himself and then sues you when you use it! He hasn't stolen anything, you gave it to him. Same way that say a game producer buys rights to use a certain game engine, like say... Unreal's?
Say Epic Games agrees on letting this game producer use the engine for 500k, they go on and produce a smashing hit title and make over 50mil.
Did they steal over 49.5mil? no, because these were the terms on which they got the engine.
but seriously, this "lost revenue" thing... any number you make up is gonna be nothing more than a made up number...
They played priv coz they didnt wanna pay, and they aint gonna pay now either, in fact not helping keep the servers running at all.
Half correct.
Why did population decrease in the past days? Because people dont like what comes after 86 and quit, but the game is still free to play after that.
Reason many didn't play is cause the game wasn't rewarding enough, took too much time to acomplish something and if you gathered all, the game would pratically tell you "now spin this wheel of death!". You could loose most you had in an instant because of the game random chances. But to keep up with competition you have to risk, always (you'd figure why bot exists in L2 since forever, right?. So where those people went to not have to grind for the rest of their life and PVP with the competition right away? Yes, PS.
There are other reasons such as people prefering old chronicles to this one. How many enjoyed interlude or c4 the most and hated hellbound and so on?
Why did population decrease in the past days? Because people dont like what comes after 86 and quit, but the game is still free to play after that.
Reason many didn't play is cause the game wasn't rewarding enough, took too much time to acomplish something and if you gathered all, the game would pratically tell you "now spin this wheel of death!". You could loose most you had in an instant because of the game random chances. But to keep up with competition you have to risk, always (you'd figure why bot exists in L2 since forever, right?. So where those people went to not have to grind for the rest of their life and PVP with the competition right away? Yes, PS.
There are other reasons such as people prefering old chronicles to this one. How many enjoyed interlude or c4 the most and hated hellbound and so on?
If you hate it so much why wont you piss off back to your Private Server and stop telling us how much our game sucks and the crappy private servers are awesome.
Smittie if you don't mind, i shall use your quote to answer Lolthian ok?
*Please do not consider statements above to be an attack on you, although I might sound abrasive at times, I only aim to help. If you can't take criticism, you probaly shouldn't post on a forum I frequent*
*Please try not to feel patronized by above statements either :D *
(c) Smittie
Ah yes, and learn english aswell dear Lolthian, as i didn't enforce any of rules on myself. If you read it well, i applied to general population, but since you are such a cave man forum troller, you wouldn't understand the simpliest of logics, would you?
Why did population decrease in the past days? Because people dont like what comes after 86 and quit, but the game is still free to play after that.
Reason many didn't play is cause the game wasn't rewarding enough, took too much time to acomplish something and if you gathered all, the game would pratically tell you "now spin this wheel of death!". You could loose most you had in an instant because of the game random chances. But to keep up with competition you have to risk, always (you'd figure why bot exists in L2 since forever, right?. So where those people went to not have to grind for the rest of their life and PVP with the competition right away? Yes, PS.
There are other reasons such as people prefering old chronicles to this one. How many enjoyed interlude or c4 the most and hated hellbound and so on?
I dont like or dislike new patches, I adapt and keep playing, and still enjoy the game, as much as I did when it was new. Maybe because I didnt see illegal servers as an option to fall back on.
The game might also have lost actives online due to mass banning of bots, but most priv server players are too cynical to realize that, I guess.
I dont like or dislike new patches, I adapt and keep playing, and still enjoy the game, as much as I did when it was new. Maybe because I didnt see illegal servers as an option to fall back on.
The game might also have lost actives online due to mass banning of bots, but most priv server players are too cynical to realize that, I guess.
Yes there is also the bots, but i am talking from my experience as pretty much everyone i got here left coz in their right mind wasn't as worth it as it looked and the effort put in the game isn't as worth as go out with friends, play some football. Playing with odds can bring much frustration than enjoyment when they are turned agaisnt you, but for myself, i do still play and am 88 now. With the time i put in this game i find it actually great (thot it would take MUCH longer to achieve it) but my or your vision of enjoyment is not shared equally to everyone.
Couple things to consider here and I being one partaking in it. Tera is having closed beta testing this weekend and will be launching in about a month and a week as well as Diablo III. How many people do you think will be jumping from the L2 ship come May? As much as I love this game after 86 it doesn't change much with few spots to xp and really only one to solo.
It's entirely aggravating to try and form a random party only to have to stop every 15 mins to replace someone who either dropped without warning,left because the party wasn't ready to go the instant they joined,the xp wasn't fast enough or no one would leave the spot to go do random pvp that they've nagged everyone for the last 10 mins about. That is all PS behavior. I've played a few private servers to tinker with pvp and stats and I have seen much of this behavior there. This is why I like to solo with a boxed toon. There's no drama,no wasted time,pots or xp multipliers. I can buff myself,xp 2 of my toons and keep all the loot for myself.
It's true PS players coming to retail boosted the population,but they never supported the game over the years,they come onto retail servers guns blazing like the locals are going to except them as part of the community. You people didn't pay per month all these years and invest the time in a character. Cheaters,bots,account thefts,spammers and whiners is about the only thing I've ever seen come from this. I'm supposed to be all happy with unicorns and glitter coming outta my ***?
It's true PS players coming to retail boosted the population,but they never supported the game over the years,they come onto retail servers guns blazing like the locals are going to except them as part of the community. You people didn't pay per month all these years and invest the time in a character. Cheaters,bots,account thefts,spammers and whiners is about the only thing I've ever seen come from this. I'm supposed to be all happy with unicorns and glitter coming outta my ***?
This hostility towards PR folks is mind boggling really.
First of all, mmos dont get f2p because the company has been doing incredibly well and is swimming in money. Second, the revenue has more than trippled as far as i remember, you guys dont tell me that you think that the "legit" players are just buying three times as much stuff now?
I wont be as presumtious as to say you owe us anything, and i have my fair share of dimwits screwing around begging/ksing, but last i checked this game still has open pvp written all over it, its not like you are totally powerless.
What you can complain about, is that the official servers still run on a skeleton crew, and that the revenue isnt put to use to actually improve the servers. You can complain about the short sightness of NC to implement a very easy to manipulate server time vote that stripped you of NA times, p2w items and the like, sure that stuff is unfair.
As for comparing player skills, new classes got implemented at GoD, replacing all the old ones and unless you say that ALL pr serverver guys are generally dumber than "legits" there would be no real advantage at "knowing your class".
I just dont get the hostility, its uncalled for and a bit ignorant.
enough with this private server scum thing, just because someone played on a private server doesn't mean squat.
I played L2 on officials since release (my parents always let me use their credit cards seeing as i was only 14 back in 2004 and couldn't have one of my own) my friends...not so lucky. THUS i made the switch to play with 20 + of my school friends on private 3-5x servers (that stayed true to the retail experience i.e had to find ur books for high level skills, had to craft your gear, leveling was insanely hard, dwarfs controlled the econ same open world pvp policies, same prices on GK warps) does that make me any less of an L2 enthusiast? NO it doesn't. just means given my circumstances and age, private servers were a more viable option.
let me tell you L2 in its current state resembles PRIVATE SERVERS more then the original game that was out for years prior to the change. i mean c'mon they give u free gear (private servers didn't even do that) they give u newbie helpers W buffs (Private servers didn't do that)they give u pvp protection until lvl 40 (what the hell is that) they GIVE U GIFTS FREE SS, FREE EVERYTHING!!!! i remember on retail only the rich of the rich leveled using SS. and i got to 85 in a little under 3 weeks.... thats just insane and resembles a high rate private server more then anything else i've mentioned.
i.e "increase the peace ya'lllllllll and take your butthurt attitudes and throw em out that door"
I notice when people try to defend Private Servers saying that the official has become similar to those... They always fail to mention anything about 86+...
For those who say it's PS players who spend real money on the store... Well why wont it let me by more coins, or half my clan? lol
I never said that, i said the revenue clearly increased and that i doubt that only the old true official players are the cause.
I have no real proof to back it up, i just know that the revenue increased, compared to how it was before. Since many players spent 80+ bucks a month on their multiple accounts already, and due to the limitation of coins, its somewhat safe to say that a good part of it came from elsewhere.
Anyhow, i somewhat dont see any justification in saying that every single person that ever touched a private server is a scumbag, freeloader or "cockroach". But then again, i dont care much either.
If lineage 2 goes down for good, its due the inability of NCWest, first and foremost, they are doing a supreme job of getting rid of their customers, tho i can see the private server jerks and the official elitists are catching up quick. Make the game unplayable for each other if you please, lets see how you like the game if each decent player got scared away by the atrocious community.
I notice when people try to defend Private Servers saying that the official has become similar to those... They always fail to mention anything about 86+...
i like how ur just a butthurt forum troll with over 6k posts.
so u were 30 when l2 went live and are 40 now. big deal go outside, grab some fresh air. i have an awaken class yes 86+ is like old school lineage but don't deny all the changes they've made to this game in order to re-populate their servers.
because from what i remember... L2 officials were down to only two under pop'd servers.
hmmm i wonder why they made changes? seeing as u super old school die hards had everything under-control.
6000 posts in over 7 years... Yeah, that's loads. :rolleyes:
I'm not sure what the comment about ages is all about. o.O
Do you really think Private Server players were even a consideration when they made the GOD changes? It's more likely the WoW style players who were the main aim. It just looks like you lot are a large percentage of the population because you feel like you're a a self entitled, under-appreciated, vocal minority hated by the rest of the server and are therefore on the forums a lot gobbing off all the time.
I would expect a Swede of all people to know US law isn't global.
The F stands for "Federal", meaning their jurisdiction ends at the country's borders, so if things take place beyond that, they can only hope the authorities in the country harboring the server/staff will cooperate, and they can force ISPs (within their jurisdiction) to block access to said servers.
Also, and completely unrelated to this: I didn't say the FBI shuts down legit businesses, but yes, I do believe the FBI has shut down many a legit business over the course of it's history.
Are you saying FBI has jurisdiction over the moon?
Lets say that I live in one of certain Gulf States where it is perfectly legal to kill a man if he commits certain acts. If that man is American then I have still committed a crime under US law, and the US can apply for me to be extradited.
Lets say that I live in one of certain Gulf States where it is perfectly legal to kill a man if he commits certain acts. If that man is American then I have still committed a crime under US law, and the US can apply for me to be extradited.
That US man is NCWest.
exactly, that's pretty much all they can do, legally
But I'd say NCWest is more of an apparent suicide ;)
Just love how scrubs who played illegal servers are trying to come up with excuses.
They were illegal, or they wouldnt have been shutdown.
Now fess up to being dirty freeloaders, that only move to where u can play the game for free on a stable server. It just happened to be retail servers this time, but since you cant hit lvl cap in 5 mins, most of you are quitting now.
So toodles, dont let the login page hit you in the back on the way out.
Just love how scrubs who played illegal servers are trying to come up with excuses.
They were illegal, or they wouldnt have been shutdown.
Now fess up to being dirty freeloaders, that only move to where u can play the game for free on a stable server. It just happened to be retail servers this time, but since you cant hit lvl cap in 5 mins, most of you are quitting now.
So toodles, dont let the login page hit you in the back on the way out.
the only thing illegal is your IQ level.
You don't know what illegal means, you don't know anything about commercial rights and you don't know anything about private servers. So ****, and go back to your cave, forum troll.
I never played a server which has been closed by the law.
I came here because of 2 things:
- it's free
- there is no private GOD server out there and even so, no player who played on rates below 5x would chose an INCOMPLETE private server than full free retail.
If you think Private Servers are legal, read this.
Private servers != illegal servers, get it in your heads.
The only illegal servers which were shut down, were the ones made by greedy americans, who paid thousands of dollars for ACTUAL stolen files and wanted to make a little fortune from it.
No l2j, l2dc or any other fork of those has been ever closed because it were legal, because they were running their own code, in a different programming language than retail, WITHOUT touching any copyright protected file.
I can make Mozilla and Internet Explorer look the same, but those 2 are 98% different starting from code core.
Within the scope of this thread, the problem I have with the PS folks is that they aggressively flood the forums with bad ideas*, typically to address botting or go after 2boxers, that invariably call for administrative coercion. They assume that they alone understand how they game should be played and that, obviously, everyone else should be forced--yes, forced--to play the game "their way". This hostile, authoritarian attitude, which PS players seem to assume so casually, is creepy and offensive to legit players who have a thorough understanding (and memory) of L2's 8-year history. PS players need to understand that L2's design, as a gameworld, is and always has been an imperfect work in progress. And that a loaded gun isn't the answer to everything.
However, the thousands of man hours and millions of pounds that NCSoft pumped into the development of the Lineage series ARE scarce.
If you planned on selling the poem for £15, yet the guy you mailed it to publishes it as his own work and makes £1,000,000, that is a potential £1,000,015 he has stolen from you.
Labor is not property. The labor and money pumped into the development of the Lineage series was done to provide the game as a service, not a tangible product.
If someone else sells your 15 pound poem for a million pounds, then he is a much better salesperson than you are, but he hasn't stolen anything. You can't say someone stole a million pounds from you on the basis that it might exist someday.
Just because you say you were the first person to have a particular idea doesn't mean that you "own" that idea. If you explain your idea to me, than I too have that idea in my mind. How do you intend to claim ownership of something that is in my mind? To a pattern of neuronal activity between my ears?
Intellectual Property is a scam cooked up to give governments the privilege of granting monopolies. Big corporations cozy up to corrupt politicians and shut down competition because they fear and hate free market capitalism just as much as the socialists do. It's cheaper and safer to bribe the government to prevent potential competitors from ever getting started than to actually compete on the free market. That is the essence of IP.
Intellectual Property is a "scam" designed to give those who come up with an idea the benefits of said idea. :rolleyes:
Yeah but... as long as the laws about it exist, we can't do much anyway, isn't it right?
I played private because on retail there are bots/rmts everywhere, players not using bots/rmts are far behind in levels/gears and can't compete in anything, only reach max level with half decent gear when new expansion comes out... lol. Now I play retail because there are no GoD private server
how did you old school people got your gears? bought them from dwarfs in Giran? you had it easy... when I see people making strong arguments about retail being hard and private players just QQ to get max lvl/gear it makes me laught
we're not playing at the same level, but please do continue to swing your sword dancing around fairies while trolling forum if that makes you happy
ON TOPIC: ppl complaining about dual box are noobs, like most of the forum trolls here :D
If lineage 2 goes down for good, its due the inability of NCWest, first and foremost, they are doing a supreme job of getting rid of their customers, tho i can see the private server jerks and the official elitists are catching up quick. Make the game unplayable for each other if you please, lets see how you like the game if each decent player got scared away by the atrocious community.
this guy deserve a medal, I won't be a jerk anymore, promise
how did you old school people got your gears? bought them from dwarfs in Giran? you had it easy...
It was NOT easy and expensive. We collected the mats and crafted it,did quests if there were any for the parts. It was not a cake walk like it is now. Proves that you never played retail all these years. Talk about a troll
It was NOT easy and expensive. We collected the mats and crafted it,did quests if there were any for the parts. It was not a cake walk like it is now. Proves that you never played retail all these years. Talk about a troll
I farmed 8 BoP recipes in LoA back in C1 (retail) with hand leveled 58 BH alt, troll harder...
did quest for part if any? lolnoob, sorry
In fact, the newbs have never had it easier than now.
Free gear, even R grade, free shots, less exp needed per lvl.
Yet somehow the freeloaders still quit coz its "too hard".
you seem mad :< did any PvP player KSed you today? yesterday? they will again tommorrow don't worry!
In fact, the newbs have never had it easier than now.
Free gear, even R grade, free shots, less exp needed per lvl.
Yet somehow the freeloaders still quit coz its "too hard".
Oh my, look at the tough guys, lets compare our ***** a little harder, shal we.
Not directed only at your post, im somewhat content that you stopped calling people cockroaches. But please, get real. Everyone is playing the same game, and everyone has it just as hard as you do now, whatever that bloody means. If it was too hard, you would have quit, obviously, since this is a game, and you "play" it. As did players on privates, that probably started over and over again, due to servers shutting down etc. etc.
sure, they "stole" from NC, but lets repeat again, servers become f2p because the company is NOT doing well, there was a announcement that said revenue quadruppled (or trippled, i have no idea) with the f2p model. And, there is a coin limit per (month? week?) account. Oldtimers mostly had several accounts, so probably always spent near that amount (at least this is what i gathered thus far) already, as well as many outright quitting, because "people have it so easy now". Logic dictates that either some drunk bear on a unicycle crashed into the ncwest building with a bag full of money, or people spend money on the store. NEW PEOPLE.
Now, if people get their heads out of their ***, and quit outright insulting everyone around you, like total *****, this game just MIGHT get a shot at staying alive. But what people see when they look at the forums is not something that looks welcoming, or even somewhat acceptable. Be a little tolerant, for Christ sakes. Both sides are behaving unacceptable and your arguments are so childish, it boarders on embarrassing.
How you can not see that being a super elite l2 player is worth nothing, nothing at all, compared to playing this game as a source of enjoyment, maybe not together, hugging each other, noone expects that from you, but let people be. They do their part to keep the game alive, its EVIDENT.
Don't bother with Smitie, he has tons of infraction points, i have seen his name previously on some other forums, he was complaining about it too much.
In the last 24 hours only 155 members cared enough to come onto the forums to see what gibberish is being posted, that is not even 1%.
Im not sure if guests are counted, but even if noone came at all, this thread gives a good idea about the community as a whole, and if they behave here as they do ingame they still get to do enough harm. Also, word of mouth is strong.
I dont even want to think what would happen if people behave like this in real life, thank god most people only get balls of brass once they are shielded from others due to several miles between them.
Does anyone disagree that the community is THE WORST? Maybe the game provokes that, maybe i regard people too highly. But i would at least hope that people are guided by reason, rather than pure blind rage. Or at least try not to look like stupid derelicts of society.
You people complain that only the crap came from PR, just look through the forum and you will know why no decent human beeing has much interest of beeing part of this community.
You people complain that only the crap came from PR, just look through the forum and you will know why no decent human beeing has much interest of beeing part of this community.
I dont even want to think what would happen if people behave like this in real life, thank god most people only get balls of brass once they are shielded from others due to several miles between them.
I'll tell you like it is any day of the week to your face, I got no issue with that what so ever. I could care less if you cry about it later.
As in "the people that complain" about PR trash. Or people that in general say that only trash came with f2p. Im sorry if it came along as if i would trashtalk the entirety of the old l2 community, i didnt mean to do that. I didnt expect to be welcomed with open arms, but all this crap on the forums gets to me more than i'd like to admit.
I'll tell you like it is any day of the week to your face, I got no issue with that what so ever. I could care less if you cry about it later.
And what exactly do i do with that information, except think that you pretend to be a tough mother***** on the boards? Exactly. Virtual arm wrestling and blowing whistles serves no purpose other than humiliating yourself. You do an incredible job at that, to be fair.
If you wanna, you can also post a real photo of yourself, showing of what a tough nail you are, but you can already feel content that im shivering in my virtual boots right now.
As in "the people that complain" about PR trash. Or people that in general say that only trash came with f2p. Im sorry if it came along as if i would trashtalk the entirety of the old l2 community, i didnt mean to do that. I didnt expect to be welcomed with open arms, but all this crap on the forums gets to me more than i'd like to admit.
And what exactly do i do with that information, except think that you pretend to be a tough mother***** on the boards? Exactly. Virtual arm wrestling and blowing whistles serves no purpose other than humiliating yourself. You do an incredible job at that, to be fair.
If you wanna, you can also post a real photo of yourself, showing of what a tough nail you are, but you can already feel content that im shivering in my virtual boots right now.
I'm not ashamed of anything nor have I anything to hide. You said people only have the brass balls when there are several miles between them. My response to that remark was that I'd tell you to your face any day of the week. I got no problem with it. Here's your requested photo, go nuts.
I'm not ashamed of anything nor have I anything to hide. You said people only have the brass balls when there are several miles between them. My response to that remark was that I'd tell you to your face any day of the week. I got no problem with it. Here's your requested photo, go nuts.
If you judge private server people as generally beeing trash virtually, or in real life, doesnt really matter. What i said was that if people behave like they do on the forums in real life that i'd be worried, if you tell me now you do.. well i dont get it. Other than to proof that you are someone full of prejudice, intolerant and disregard the worth of people based on the server they came from.
Also, as i said, blowing whistles still serves no purpose on the net. That picture neither reduces distance between us, nor does it even have to be real. I am shaking in my boots now, regardless.
I'm not ashamed of anything nor have I anything to hide. You said people only have the brass balls when there are several miles between them. My response to that remark was that I'd tell you to your face any day of the week. I got no problem with it. Here's your requested photo, go nuts.
Should i post mine photos as well? and make girls nuts? :D
Also edit: the only reason i am afraid about, is that the guy who try to piss me from a pc, he might be miles away from me...
this is why i don't give a sh1.t, also posting a photo doesn't make you man with ''guts'' because you might be miles away,although you have no balls due to gender :D so don't try to piss men.
If you judge private server people as generally beeing trash virtually, or in real life, doesnt really matter. What i said was that if people behave like they do on the forums in real life that i'd be worried, if you tell me now you do.. well i dont get it. Other than to proof that you are someone full of prejudice, intolerant and disregard the worth of people based on the server they came from.
Also, as i said, blowing whistles still serves no purpose on the net. That picture neither reduces distance between us, nor does it even have to be real. I am shaking in my boots now, regardless.
you did say post a photo of myself,so I did. You don't even know what the hell you're ranting about.
@ Tool I didn't remove anything and wtf is a exif?
If you wanna, you can also post a real photo of yourself, showing of what a tough nail you are, but you can already feel content that im shivering in my virtual boots right now.
I thought it was pretty evident that i was being sarcastic. I didnt really want a photo of you, nor is it of any use.
you did say post a photo of myself,so I did. You don't even know what the hell you're ranting about.
@ Tool I didn't remove anything and wtf is a exif?EXIF data is information stored in an image by your camera or phone when creating said image. General information is stored about the camera lighting location including GPS coordinates where possible and other random things. It's the GPS location part you have to be careful about but also the phone information could be abused.
I'm sure you were already aware of that though. Tool's rules of war number 3 states "always make your opponent underestimate you". Applies to fights on the internet and in real life too :P
EXIF data is information stored in an image by your camera or phone when creating said image. General information is stored about the camera lighting location including GPS coordinates where possible and other random things. It's the GPS location part you have to be careful about but also the phone information could be abused.
I'm sure you were already aware of that though. Tool's rules of war number 3 states "always make your opponent underestimate you". Applies to fights on the internet and in real life too :P
EXIF data is information stored in an image by your camera or phone when creating said image. General information is stored about the camera lighting location including GPS coordinates where possible and other random things. It's the GPS location part you have to be careful about but also the phone information could be abused.
I'm sure you were already aware of that though. Tool's rules of war number 3 states "always make your opponent underestimate you". Applies to fights on the internet and in real life too :P
Ah okay I have heard of it,just not the term. Thanks for explaining it. I don't really consider this internet fighting, more like boredom to the max. I been in forum fights FAR more nasty. This is just people who are bored including me :) I don't have anything personal against anyone TBH.
Intellectual Property is a "scam" designed to give those who come up with an idea the benefits of said idea. :rolleyes:
And then there's the hobbyist programmer, working on some project, comes up with a brilliant new way of encoding/decoding video. He stays up all night implementing his idea into this project and shares it with the world at no cost, under a license that allows anyone to use, modify and distribute said software.
Meanwhile, patent troll company X has been lurking and keeping an eye on the publicly available repository for said project. One of their employees flags the commit of our hobbyist as interesting, and after a team of trolls pick it apart, they request a patent for the idea behind that particular implementation. They actually manage to get a patent for it, and 3 months after the commit, our hobbyist is sued for patent infringement for something he came up with.
The unfortunate part of this story is that it actually happened.
The Intellectual Property system as it is, is completely broken, so broken even economists in the US are starting to notice the people with the ideas and the innovation, are not the people filling their pockets. If anything, the current system stifles and demotivates innovation. Allowing venture capital to prey upon true innovators and keep prices high.
But playing private servers isn't about money. How many people do you know play a private server because they can't afford retail? I don't know a single person, and I've played quite a few different ones. The reason I'd switch servers is the experience, the way the server is modded, how well maintained it is, the general service you get from the staff, and (probably foremost) the community active on said server.
These are the reasons I quit retail before, and these are the reason I'm probably going to quit again soon and go back to playing BF3 or something. So my 3 friends and I can at least shoot the ****** who doesn't speak any English, instead of being forced to party up with him and get him to cooperate.
And then there's the hobbyist programmer, working on some project, comes up with a brilliant new way of encoding/decoding video. He stays up all night implementing his idea into this project and shares it with the world at no cost, under a license that allows anyone to use, modify and distribute said software.
Meanwhile, patent troll company X has been lurking and keeping an eye on the publicly available repository for said project. One of their employees flags the commit of our hobbyist as interesting, and after a team of trolls pick it apart, they request a patent for the idea behind that particular implementation. They actually manage to get a patent for it, and 3 months after the commit, our hobbyist is sued for patent infringement for something he came up with.
The unfortunate part of this story is that it actually happened.
The Intellectual Property system as it is, is completely broken, so broken even economists in the US are starting to notice the people with the ideas and the innovation, are not the people filling their pockets. If anything, the current system stifles and demotivates innovation. Allowing venture capital to prey upon true innovators and keep prices high.
But playing private servers isn't about money. How many people do you know play a private server because they can't afford retail? I don't know a single person, and I've played quite a few different ones. The reason I'd switch servers is the experience, the way the server is modded, how well maintained it is, the general service you get from the staff, and (probably foremost) the community active on said server.
These are the reasons I quit retail before, and these are the reason I'm probably going to quit again soon and go back to playing BF3 or something. So my 3 friends and I can at least shoot the ****** who doesn't speak any English, instead of being forced to party up with him and get him to cooperate.
I agree I never played PS because I couldn't afford my 3 accounts. I played either because I wanted to tinker with pvp on a toon like mine on retail. I didn't risk anything on a PS where as on retail I would or it'd cost me a lot of adena that could result in a major fail investment. I never played for years on end,just a little here and there and like I said did a little GMing for a friend and truly learned just what retail mods put up with
And then there's the hobbyist programmer, working on some project, comes up with a brilliant new way of encoding/decoding video. He stays up all night implementing his idea into this project and shares it with the world at no cost, under a license that allows anyone to use, modify and distribute said software.
Meanwhile, patent troll company X has been lurking and keeping an eye on the publicly available repository for said project. One of their employees flags the commit of our hobbyist as interesting, and after a team of trolls pick it apart, they request a patent for the idea behind that particular implementation. They actually manage to get a patent for it, and 3 months after the commit, our hobbyist is sued for patent infringement for something he came up with.
The unfortunate part of this story is that it actually happened.
The Intellectual Property system as it is, is completely broken, so broken even economists in the US are starting to notice the people with the ideas and the innovation, are not the people filling their pockets. If anything, the current system stifles and demotivates innovation. Allowing venture capital to prey upon true innovators and keep prices high.
+1
It has been actually happening for a very long time. For a crash course on how Intellectual Property is antithetical to free trade, Google "James Watt, Monopolist".
What Hobbyist programmer (singular, especially... A/V Codecs are a touch task, that's why that market is lush with patents) did that?
Proprietary Codecs like WMA Professional and H264 all outperform Open Source competitors, and no Hobbyist Programmer is developing any codec that can compete with them.
F/OSS Codecs like Vorbis were developed by whole companies and then basically donated to the Open Source Community.
The same can be said in almost all markets. Office Software, Operating Systems, A/V and Photo Editing/Manipulation, CAD/Modeling. The main reason why Linux hasn't been successful on the desktop is precicely because there are huge software packages that basically dominate certain industries that aren't available for it (AutoCAD, PhotoShop, Microsoft Office, Top-End Commercial DAWs and A/V Editors like Premier/Vegas, etc.).
And I don't really want to argue about how good someone things Linux is (that's almost bound to spark, since I mentioned it). I used it for 10 years both for tinkering and for work. What a trainwreck for consumers that OS is.
What Hobbyist programmer (singular, especially... A/V Codecs are a touch task, that's why that market is lush with patents) did that?
Proprietary Codecs like WMA Professional and H264 all outperform Open Source competitors, and no Hobbyist Programmer is developing any codec that can compete with them.
F/OSS Codecs like Vorbis were developed by whole companies and then basically donated to the Open Source Community.
The same can be said in almost all markets. Office Software, Operating Systems, A/V and Photo Editing/Manipulation, CAD/Modeling. The main reason why Linux hasn't been successful on the desktop is precicely because there are huge software packages that basically dominate certain industries that aren't available for it (AutoCAD, PhotoShop, Microsoft Office, Top-End Commercial DAWs and A/V Editors like Premier/Vegas, etc.).
And I don't really want to argue about how good someone things Linux is (that's almost bound to spark, since I mentioned it). I used it for 10 years both for tinkering and for work. What a trainwreck for consumers that OS is.WEbM and even x264 are more then capable of competing with H264 in quality and compression capabilities. It's true that H264 is more popular by far due to it's corporate connections to blue ray and such.
FLAC is the best lossless codec out there and it was originally developed by one dude and it's free to use. Chris Montgomery developed vorbis and the ogg container format on his own. Chris went on to found the xiph.org foundation which continues to develop vorbis among other open source codecs.
Libre office has all the functionality of microsoft office and is open source. GIMP is a direct competitor to photoshop and is opensource (I use it regularly).
The interesting thing about computers is that a surprisingly large amount of the software that is big today started off as a hobby project for some programmer 10 years ago. For such an avid Linux user you sure seem to know very little about the history of the open-source community.
EDIT : THere are whole communities in this country that are running all their business off of open source software. Whole countries such as south Korea are operating their computer systems off open source software. You might be entitled to your irrational hatred but you're certainly not entitled to make up your own facts.
Don't bother with Smitie, he has tons of infraction points, i have seen his name previously on some other forums, he was complaining about it too much.
Actually my infraction points are at an all time low currently.
Oh my, look at the tough guys, lets compare our ***** a little harder, shal we.
Not directed only at your post, im somewhat content that you stopped calling people cockroaches. But please, get real. Everyone is playing the same game, and everyone has it just as hard as you do now, whatever that bloody means. If it was too hard, you would have quit, obviously, since this is a game, and you "play" it. As did players on privates, that probably started over and over again, due to servers shutting down etc. etc.
sure, they "stole" from NC, but lets repeat again, servers become f2p because the company is NOT doing well, there was a announcement that said revenue quadruppled (or trippled, i have no idea) with the f2p model. And, there is a coin limit per (month? week?) account. Oldtimers mostly had several accounts, so probably always spent near that amount (at least this is what i gathered thus far) already, as well as many outright quitting, because "people have it so easy now". Logic dictates that either some drunk bear on a unicycle crashed into the ncwest building with a bag full of money, or people spend money on the store. NEW PEOPLE.
Now, if people get their heads out of their ***, and quit outright insulting everyone around you, like total *****, this game just MIGHT get a shot at staying alive. But what people see when they look at the forums is not something that looks welcoming, or even somewhat acceptable. Be a little tolerant, for Christ sakes. Both sides are behaving unacceptable and your arguments are so childish, it boarders on embarrassing.
How you can not see that being a super elite l2 player is worth nothing, nothing at all, compared to playing this game as a source of enjoyment, maybe not together, hugging each other, noone expects that from you, but let people be. They do their part to keep the game alive, its EVIDENT.
What Hobbyist programmer (singular, especially... A/V Codecs are a touch task, that's why that market is lush with patents) did that?
Proprietary Codecs like WMA Professional and H264 all outperform Open Source competitors, and no Hobbyist Programmer is developing any codec that can compete with them.
F/OSS Codecs like Vorbis were developed by whole companies and then basically donated to the Open Source Community.
The same can be said in almost all markets. Office Software, Operating Systems, A/V and Photo Editing/Manipulation, CAD/Modeling. The main reason why Linux hasn't been successful on the desktop is precicely because there are huge software packages that basically dominate certain industries that aren't available for it (AutoCAD, PhotoShop, Microsoft Office, Top-End Commercial DAWs and A/V Editors like Premier/Vegas, etc.).
And I don't really want to argue about how good someone things Linux is (that's almost bound to spark, since I mentioned it). I used it for 10 years both for tinkering and for work. What a trainwreck for consumers that OS is.
I don't really remember those details, so consider it a fictional example based on real events.
My point was that an entity holding a patent is usually not the entity that came up with it (read "almost never"). And there's tons of entities out there that sit on a bunch of patents, simply to sue people. They don't actually do anything else with them.
So say you come up with a brilliant idea. You first and foremost have to check if that idea is already patented, and in doing so, you have to spread said idea. If it isn't patented, you have to go about patenting it, to avoid being sued over your own idea.
Now imagine how much time and money is being wasted, filling out forms, attending legal proceedings, ... every single day!
Photoshop runs fine on wine. In fact, half the **** released today, automatically has at least a silver rating. But you can just open your PSDs in Pixlr or something, eliminating the OS factor altogether. Same for MSOffice documents, I haven't owned a copy of Office since Google Docs came around... why would I?
If you think Linux is only used on servers, stick your head in any dev shop that doesn't just do .NET ****. There is a vast community out there, actively writing GUI apps, which I doubt are of any use on a terminal interface. And since OSX is really nothing more than a bolted down FreeBSD... :o
I like how half the companies you mentioned, are scared ******** right now because the market has shifted. I mean... whitehouse.gov runs on free and open source software for crying out loud!
Walls of text and no discussion of the box not = botting. Just arguements about copyright and PS being crap.
On topic, boxing is not botting. Raising a box takes quite a bit of time away from leveling my main. However, the major boon I get would be self mentoring, 24/7 Iss buffs, and 7 additional character slots I can use to fill any niche character role for my clan. So it takes effort to raise one, and a lot of new players lack patience to raise any other character than their main.
Walls of text and no discussion of the box not = botting. Just arguements about copyright and PS being crap.
On topic, boxing is not botting. Raising a box takes quite a bit of time away from leveling my main. However, the major boon I get would be self mentoring, 24/7 Iss buffs, and 7 additional character slots I can use to fill any niche character role for my clan. So it takes effort to raise one, and a lot of new players lack patience to raise any other character than their main.
And that has been said numerous times and argued. The argument moved on to something else entirely for entertainment purposes.
stick your head in any dev shop that doesn't just do .NET ****.
I resemble that remark >> There is hope for MS. Even if the market is dragging them kicking and screaming towards open source, at least they're moving. Parts of the .NET FW have been open source for years, and MS just recently started rolling out ASP.NET. You could say Google Docs forced MS to Office Live, but at least they did it. I know its a far cry from open sourcing any OS or other licensed-product code, but it's progress. And for MS it's a big deal, 10 years ago any employee who even hinted at these things would have been fired on the spot. Patent law is tyranny, and open source is the future. I think MS understands.
Personally, I code for a .NET shop and my coworkers are very receptive to my anti-IP arguments/rants.