A summoner with all reflect stuff is close to invincible, because i will reflect more dmg to you than you will dmg me.(I ignore 70% of your dmg while im reflecting 50% back to you and if you use AOE, that's 20% from all summons and me(50%) back to you, which means that it's possible on certain situations to 2 shot the oponent if he AOEs, without touching him).
All i need is to keep healing summon and my oponent will die by their own dmg.
Not a lot of ppl have valakas
Active reflect is not forever. You can just wait or w/e
Most pvp have healers, so if your party focus on 1 char, it'll die before your party dies.
Feoh has mana barrier that damage goes to mana, tyrr have skill that gives full hp, about yul and othell I'm not sure how to avoid it 'cause I've never played with them in GOD against reflect.
Imo you tried to kill a tank, he buffed reflect and you gave 5 hits and died. Reflect from tanks are quite nasty..
Funny, before GoD for mass pvp players bring 1-2 PP 83+ for CC (ContrCritical buff) and now players bring SpS (why not sorcer ?) for +30 reflect
First they make buffing reflect on Orbis mobs illegal
It's not working. Same as trying to ban adena sellers spam in towns.
How much time you need to make 56 lvl SpS ? I think couple of hours. And how much time NCSoft need to get petition to ban this SpS (especially if SpS was offline when GM check him due to petition, so they will need to check logs)? I think couple of days.
Btw in one of next updates (dont remember name - next after Taunti) tank's reflect self-buff will become stackable with daring sonata (also 10% reflect btw), so looks like NCKorea think that reflect is ok.
Not a lot of ppl have valakas
Active reflect is not forever. You can just wait or w/e
Most pvp have healers, so if your party focus on 1 char, it'll die before your party dies.
Feoh has mana barrier that damage goes to mana, tyrr have skill that gives full hp, about yul and othell I'm not sure how to avoid it 'cause I've never played with them in GOD against reflect.
Imo you tried to kill a tank, he buffed reflect and you gave 5 hits and died. Reflect from tanks are quite nasty..
PS: you guys forgot reflect from freezing skin :D
Any necklase have reflect (FR, Freya, Istina, Valakas, dunno about Octavis)
Active reflect - 5min with ~2-3 sec reuse
Most pvp have also DD and they dont wait until enemy die from reflect xd
Feoh in pvp who use mage barrier will lost mana in few sec, it works just in 1vs1 (f.e. oly), but try it in mass pvp and your party will have -1 DD.
Tank reflect - 10 sec with 60 sec reuse - just need to look on target's buffs. But if he have passive + active reflect (+ maybe some old DA skills) you will die even if he afk coz he have too much HP/CP xd
Can people stop crying about reflect? Instead of crying why don't you get some life stones and get reflect too? You make it seem like these classes are high and mighty because they have reflect....well guess what YOU CAN GET IT TOO! Jesus christ this community is filled with carebears
Remember people: When the damage go up, the reflect go up too as a side effect in what NCSoft somehow call "Balance".
Otherwise, Mages and Archers will simple farm people in a party only with their class and an Iss in TW and Sieges, without even worrying to bring a single HP/CP elixir pot with then.
The reflect cannot be lowered/removed right now, not without lowering the damage.
Not a lot of ppl have valakas
Active reflect is not forever. You can just wait or w/e
Most pvp have healers, so if your party focus on 1 char, it'll die before your party dies.
Feoh has mana barrier that damage goes to mana, tyrr have skill that gives full hp, about yul and othell I'm not sure how to avoid it 'cause I've never played with them in GOD against reflect.
Imo you tried to kill a tank, he buffed reflect and you gave 5 hits and died. Reflect from tanks are quite nasty..
PS: you guys forgot reflect from freezing skin :D
Actually active reflect is 5 min with a 3 second reuse. Just letting you know.
Can people stop crying about reflect? Instead of crying why don't you get some life stones and get reflect too? You make it seem like these classes are high and mighty because they have reflect....well guess what YOU CAN GET IT TOO! Jesus christ this community is filled with carebears
+1
Every player has a fair chance at getting both augments. Some are lucky, some aren't. Obviously the lucky people, who have likely spent billions getting both active and passive reflect, should be banned for their investment.
There's a tank on my server with triple reflect. I have active reflect. I beat him no problem. There's a tiny thing called strategy that very few people in this game understand. Just because you can't beat it, doesn't mean it's impossible.
Every player has a fair chance at getting both augments. Some are lucky, some aren't. Obviously the lucky people, who have likely spent billions getting both active and passive reflect, should be banned for their investment.
There's a tank on my server with triple reflect. I have active reflect. I beat him no problem. There's a tiny thing called strategy that very few people in this game understand. Just because you can't beat it, doesn't mean it's impossible.
Beat summoner 95+ with triple reflect without being youself summoner.
The dmg one gives to tank is WAYY too low and they have crap CP and average HP.
Reflects is a pain vs squishy classes, specially when they can heal themselves.
TBH im gonna start laughing when every summoner (im summoner), including myself has all these reflects and every other class can't beat them .
already said it before reflect is killin whole game i dont give a **** about pve
but pvp with people stackin up reflects nice one really fun pvp nowadays..
gettin like 80% reflect in your face
for tards tellin me to get reflect also guess what i do have reflect augment also doesnt change the fact that reflect is broken and should be capped at 20% or whatever no matter how much reflects u stack up maybe some self buff skills that last 1 min or less and have reuse can have more but augments that can be perma up active reflect augment + freezing skin + passive reflect augment good luck killin this person infact freezing skin is over kill here any dude whos not afk will drop you.
as for the ********* saying dont use aoe at sieges you have to realize i dont even need to use a AoE at sieges in order to kill my self going around on rhapsody and minds eye will crit any robe user hard enough to drop ur cp in few seconds if rest of your pt is under attack also no healer can keep up with damage u get reflected back.
but hey i dont see ncsoft changin this cus it doesnt interupt their almighty dumb pve role playing players on their server so ye already starting to lose my faith in this game :(
was best pvp game prolly still is but killing my self in pvp isnt my thing n im not addicted to this game so i can quit whenever i feel like it
+1
Every player has a fair chance at getting both augments. Some are lucky, some aren't. Obviously the lucky people, who have likely spent billions getting both active and passive reflect, should be banned for their investment.
There's a tank on my server with triple reflect. I have active reflect. I beat him no problem. There's a tiny thing called strategy that very few people in this game understand. Just because you can't beat it, doesn't mean it's impossible.
im sorry you guys didnt play during p2p
but every single person who has reflect now would dump that **** skill pre GoD
any person who was 85 100% before GoD came had such massive stack of life stones in his warehouse not gettin reflect would just be impossible
now ncsoft went smart mode and let people augment with no cost as event this was the day i knew every factor would get reflect and was also the day i started to lose faith in pvp in this game
it didnt cost anything to get reflect for 98% of player base so what your saying is just ********
people used to what skill refresh or clarity or such a augments no1 wanted reflect Pre GoD
oye not to mention for people who want reflect so badly also to join the badass club, since im gonna quit anyway if this doesnt change
in tauti update EVERY high/top stone will give 100% a skill augment so u can start stackin them up in ur warehouse also so you will get your reflect also >.<
but hey i dont see ncsoft changin this cus it doesnt interupt their almighty dumb pve role playing players on their server so ye already starting to lose my faith in this game :(
was best pvp game prolly still is but killing my self in pvp isnt my thing n im not addicted to this game so i can quit whenever i feel like it
They are gonna change it, we just don't know in what way.
Every player has a fair chance at getting both augments. Some are lucky, some aren't. Obviously the lucky people, who have likely spent billions getting both active and passive reflect, should be banned for their investment.
There's a tank on my server with triple reflect. I have active reflect. I beat him no problem. There's a tiny thing called strategy that very few people in this game understand. Just because you can't beat it, doesn't mean it's impossible.
That's the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. Strategy is not a tank being literally unkillable because he can literally stand there and let you DPS him and due to HP/CP difference he will win anyways due to the damage reflects.
If you play a class that has big heals (Aeore, Iss) or something like a Wynn Summoner the reflect is much less of an issue. But on DPS classes like Feoh or Yul the triple reflect makes a tank like that nearly unkillable unless you get super lucky on VR procs if you take that buff.
Hell, he may be able to take off some gear and let you one shot yourself now and then.
That's not strategy. That's broken mechanics.
There's a reason why all the new reflect and VR buffs are Chance instead of 100%. Cause even before GoD you had things like Titans VRing people like MOBs during PvP. They simply need to fix this. It's broken and whatever strategy you think you have you're off base, especially when you have an active reflect that reflects damage back to him that doesn't bounce back to you balancing the situation out a bit.
This is no different from any other situation: People with these augments (or trying hard to get them) will always say it's okay and others should start whining, cause they'll take any advantage they could get. Even if the tank with triple reflect beat you 100% of the time, there's a ton of other people with nothing that you can probably steamroll due to your Active Reflect augment.
If it were capped @ a lower % then it wouldn't be such a big deal. Tbh, there are a lot of tweeks they need to make. Healers/Summoners in heavy, triple+ reflect, and dagger fake death/hide in oly are some of the ones that come to mind.
If it were capped @ a lower % then it wouldn't be such a big deal. Tbh, there are a lot of tweeks they need to make. Healers/Summoners in heavy, triple+ reflect, and dagger fake death/hide in oly are some of the ones that come to mind.
AFAIK classes will get a boost of 5k HP when worn with certain type of armor(tank with heavy, healer with robe/light,etc)..but it might not be enough.
Feoh in pvp who use mage barrier will lost mana in few sec, it works just in 1vs1 (f.e. oly), but try it in mass pvp and your party will have -1 DD.
Not correct,if nukers were full mana when mass pvp started,they are ok even if they use echo.Problem would be only if healer had reuse on rebirth and more wars come.
Not correct,if nukers were full mana when mass pvp started,they are ok even if they use echo.Problem would be only if healer had reuse on rebirth and more wars come.
If you get attacked with that mana barrier on your mana is going ot get demolished, plain and simple. Especially outside of Olympiad where you are likely to get targetted by more than one person on a Wizard. You can go from full mana to none in like 5 seconds with that skill and no healer wants to RB that early just cause the dumb wizard used Mana Barrier.
Beat summoner 95+ with triple reflect without being youself summoner.
The dmg one gives to tank is WAYY too low and they have crap CP and average HP.
Reflects is a pain vs squishy classes, specially when they can heal themselves.
TBH im gonna start laughing when every summoner (im summoner), including myself has all these reflects and every other class can't beat them .
Summoner can't have triple reflect. I regularly beat a double reflect summoner, what's your point? If you take away their balance, they're finished.
im sorry you guys didnt play during p2p
but every single person who has reflect now would dump that **** skill pre GoD
any person who was 85 100% before GoD came had such massive stack of life stones in his warehouse not gettin reflect would just be impossible
now ncsoft went smart mode and let people augment with no cost as event this was the day i knew every factor would get reflect and was also the day i started to lose faith in pvp in this game
it didnt cost anything to get reflect for 98% of player base so what your saying is just ********
people used to what skill refresh or clarity or such a augments no1 wanted reflect Pre GoD
oye not to mention for people who want reflect so badly also to join the badass club, since im gonna quit anyway if this doesnt change
in tauti update EVERY high/top stone will give 100% a skill augment so u can start stackin them up in ur warehouse also so you will get your reflect also >.<
I've been playing since closed beta. I spent billions augmenting and I have every active skill I could ever want. Two flaws with your argument:
1) You're assuming everyone just stopped after getting active reflect, but hardcore augmenters all went for passive reflect on a main weapon during that event. 1a augment removal did not make that free in the least bit, it simply halved the cost of augmenting because you still had to pay for the gemstones, and possibly life stones if you didn't have a stockpile, which still adds up VERY quickly on an R grade weapon. I spent 4b during that event alone trying to get passive reflect and was unsuccessful.
2) Active reflect was a great augment to have against tanks and especially soulhound pre-GoD, and very good to have for something like sws spec, and it was rare enough anyone who got it on a crap weapon would keep it anyway.
That's the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. Strategy is not a tank being literally unkillable because he can literally stand there and let you DPS him and due to HP/CP difference he will win anyways due to the damage reflects.
If you play a class that has big heals (Aeore, Iss) or something like a Wynn Summoner the reflect is much less of an issue. But on DPS classes like Feoh or Yul the triple reflect makes a tank like that nearly unkillable unless you get super lucky on VR procs if you take that buff.
Hell, he may be able to take off some gear and let you one shot yourself now and then.
That's not strategy. That's broken mechanics.
There's a reason why all the new reflect and VR buffs are Chance instead of 100%. Cause even before GoD you had things like Titans VRing people like MOBs during PvP. They simply need to fix this. It's broken and whatever strategy you think you have you're off base, especially when you have an active reflect that reflects damage back to him that doesn't bounce back to you balancing the situation out a bit.
This is no different from any other situation: People with these augments (or trying hard to get them) will always say it's okay and others should start whining, cause they'll take any advantage they could get. Even if the tank with triple reflect beat you 100% of the time, there's a ton of other people with nothing that you can probably steamroll due to your Active Reflect augment.
I can play that game too. You regularly have the dumbest posts in threads I read, and your belligerent response reflects you didn't even read what I said in the first place. I, with only active reflect, 100% beat a tank with triple reflect, meaning it's possible to beat "broken mechanics" if you know what you're doing, and also assuming that you even have a chance in the first place. I don't even use reflect in 95% of my matches because it's unnecessary, but I have it if I want it. High DPS classes like Feoh and Yul, even Othell, have no chance to beat a competent tank anyway, reflect or not, so that point is moot.
I don't know about you, but I don't complain about people having better gear than me, and a reflect augment is just that. Someone who puts more time and adena into their toon should have a clear advantage, and rather than admitting that people just choose to cry about it and call it unfair.
Summoner can't have triple reflect. I regularly beat a double reflect summoner, what's your point? If you take away their balance, they're finished.
Any jewel with reflect
reflect passive
reflect active
triple reflect.
Summoner with Heavy with all reflects with TP 70% is close to unbeatable. Balance life = GOD skill. And the most funny, DOTs go through reflect, and summons are hardly afected by it cause their HP is 20k +++ so tecnically ,we, summoners, are quite unafected if you have reflects :) while you are quite afected if we have reflects.
I tested this when i go beat tank 95 with r95 gear with reflect and i am....89 with just reflect jewels with immortal gear (i don't even have balance life yet).
Not correct,if nukers were full mana when mass pvp started,they are ok even if they use echo.Problem would be only if healer had reuse on rebirth and more wars come.
Even pvp 7 vs 7 last more than 10-15 sec and no one will use RB with 6 ppl have full mp and 1 mage have 0. Recharge? Not in this case.
Saw recently a fraps where Advol from SH (naia) got like 90% or more reflect...
It should be capped to like 20% max. And I hope even delusional Koreans will finally manage to get on this idea :/
NC already investigate reflect issue and make fix - daring sonata remove 2-nd class reflect buff (Freezing Skin f.e.) and now they think that all works fine atm.
Any jewel with reflect
reflect passive
reflect active
triple reflect.
Summoner with Heavy with all reflects with TP 70% is close to unbeatable. Balance life = GOD skill. And the most funny, DOTs go through reflect, and summons are hardly afected by it cause their HP is 20k +++ so tecnically ,we, summoners, are quite unafected if you have reflects :) while you are quite afected if we have reflects.
I tested this when i go beat tank 95 with r95 gear with reflect and i am....89 with just reflect jewels with immortal gear (i don't even have balance life yet).
that's correct and the main reason from what I understood as to why Tauson (the strongest & most pro Tank player on Naia) is rerolling to Wyn Summoner no joke..
They are gonna change it, we just don't know in what way.
from what i understood they will ban people for buffin mobs
and the change is easy to guess
you can now NO LONGER buff mobs/npcs
or the buff is made self cast only
how is that going to change anything seeing how many people have passive reflect + active reflect + the sonata again it still reflect a way to much
also dont understand people saying dont use AoE in siege some people need to realize i can easily hit up to 30k damage with no aoe in siege on my archer
30k damage 80% of this is 24k reflect to me if i did math correct did it quick but w/e
if i do 2 quick hits then gg im dead
reflect should just be capped at 20% or w/e i dont understand the point of reflect damage anyway
if a skill would give some1 50% or more reflect for 1 min or less then ok i can deal with that but perma 80% or more reflect meh really nice in pvp i approve :P just get warrior healing pots attack the healers and the dd's will kill em self when u put enough preasure on the healers so they cant change targets to heal dd's
Any jewel with reflect
reflect passive
reflect active
triple reflect.
A jewel does not count as a reflect buff, everyone has at the very least a Frint. With that logic, a former hell knight wearing any necklace and nightmare heavy has septuple reflect from active reflect, passive reflect, reflect damage, necklace, armor bonus, heavy mastery, and a Rune.
from what i understood they will ban people for buffin mobs
and the change is easy to guess
you can now NO LONGER buff mobs/npcs
or the buff is made self cast only
how is that going to change anything seeing how many people have passive reflect + active reflect + the sonata again it still reflect a way to much
also dont understand people saying dont use AoE in siege some people need to realize i can easily hit up to 30k damage with no aoe in siege on my archer
30k damage 80% of this is 24k reflect to me if i did math correct did it quick but w/e
if i do 2 quick hits then gg im dead
reflect should just be capped at 20% or w/e i dont understand the point of reflect damage anyway
if a skill would give some1 50% or more reflect for 1 min or less then ok i can deal with that but perma 80% or more reflect meh really nice in pvp i approve :P just get warrior healing pots attack the healers and the dd's will kill em self when u put enough preasure on the healers so they cant change targets to heal dd's
You didnt understand my reply...i mean the reflect system will change, from korean patch notes. But nobody knows in what manner. It might be capped in the future, or it might be only working with certain attacks, but it will change in some way.
@Draecke: I'm rly afraid that summoner becomes the new OP class becoz of this crap...every wannabe will roll one...
@Shunsui: In my POV, every new reflect counts as something good, it's always an advantage every little bit, but right now, having +++50% reflecting everything all the time is clearly an overlooked mistake It's senseless to have so much reflect, tanks should dominate that area to make up for their lack of Direct damage. This will become a messy reflect fest, funny at first, but gets annoying when parties will auto-kill each other.
I can play that game too. You regularly have the dumbest posts in threads I read, and your belligerent response reflects you didn't even read what I said in the first place. I, with only active reflect, 100% beat a tank with triple reflect, meaning it's possible to beat "broken mechanics" if you know what you're doing, and also assuming that you even have a chance in the first place. I don't even use reflect in 95% of my matches because it's unnecessary, but I have it if I want it. High DPS classes like Feoh and Yul, even Othell, have no chance to beat a competent tank anyway, reflect or not, so that point is moot.
I don't know about you, but I don't complain about people having better gear than me, and a reflect augment is just that. Someone who puts more time and adena into their toon should have a clear advantage, and rather than admitting that people just choose to cry about it and call it unfair.
You aren't beating broken mechanics, you're just playing an imba class in the olympiad, since those other high DPS classes don't have a chance to begin with, right?
Rerolling should not be the key to beating a broken mechanic.
That's the second dumbest thing I've read in this thread.
Also, there's nothing balanced about augmentations completely usurping class balance and making so many fights win/lose by default regardless of how well you play.
Reflect damage affects classes that can heal themselves less than others (includes summoners, via their pets). I asked you what class you played. You still didn't respond to that question. Obviously it matters since you know the DPS classes don't have a chance, anyways.
The only way to beat reflect damage, is heals, be a summoner, or counter a factorable amount of it with your own reflect damage which balances things out a bit.
That's not strategy. That's ludicrous.
This isn't the first game to have this problem.
It's not just about tanks, so you don't have to cling to tightly to that example. In CB nuker fights if one has stacked reflect augments/buffs and you don't you lose by default even if his gear is worse than yours, unless you one shot him.
The only way to beat reflect damage, is heals, be a summoner, or counter a factorable amount of it with your own reflect damage which balances things out a bit.
That's not strategy. That's ludicrous.
This isn't the first game to have this problem.
This reminds me of batles between soulhounds. The first to Steal buff is the looser. God i hated that stupid skill...
And here we have, another "i got this skill, i win" situation.
You aren't beating broken mechanics, you're just playing an imba class in the olympiad, since those other high DPS classes don't have a chance to begin with, right?
Rerolling should not be the key to beating a broken mechanic.
That's the second dumbest thing I've read in this thread.
Also, there's nothing balanced about augmentations completely usurping class balance and making so many fights win/lose by default regardless of how well you play.
Reflect damage affects classes that can heal themselves less than others (includes summoners, via their pets). I asked you what class you played. You still didn't respond to that question. Obviously it matters since you know the DPS classes don't have a chance, anyways.
The only way to beat reflect damage, is heals, be a summoner, or counter a factorable amount of it with your own reflect damage which balances things out a bit.
That's not strategy. That's ludicrous.
This isn't the first game to have this problem.
It's not just about tanks, so you don't have to cling to tightly to that example. In CB nuker fights if one has stacked reflect augments/buffs and you don't you lose by default even if his gear is worse than yours, unless you one shot him.
How is me winning 100% of the time against my own class that has triple reflect versus my single reflect not beating, in your words, broken game mechanics?
You complain about augments making 1v1 fights unbalanced. Pre-GoD, the best Oly healers had 4+ nuke augments. Is it unfair that they almost never lost matches after spending billions making those weapons? No, their investment is justified in the victory percentage, and they better have an advantage over their competition for putting so much into it. Is it unfair for one nuker in a spec match to have a Valakas when the other doesn't? No. Is it unfair if one dagger has a reuse augment and the other doesn't? No. Is it unfair if one uses a DP talisman and the other doesn't? No. Some players will always have an advantage over others, who will cry over and over again about how they can't win because it's not handed to them on a silver platter. L2's game mechanics are all about being competitive and gearing yourself to be better than everyone else, so if that means you have something other players don't, congratulations. If you're someone who doesn't have that something, you need to accept that, or do something to change it.
You honestly think high dps classes are supposed to have a chance against a class that is designed to absorb damage? Feoh, Yul, Othell should never beat a tank or a summoner. Period. What class balance do you speak of? Tanks, healers, and summoners have ALWAYS dominated Oly, so complaining if they have reflect and you aren't one of those classes is meaningless. In mass pvp they were hardly factors. Tanks were a 1 minute buff or a cancel, healers are healers and they're either good at keeping their party alive or not, and feline queen was only useful thing a summoner ever provided, and only to archer parties at that. Maybe the one or two PS on each server that actually pvped was useful once an hour for the stunlock transform. That's their balance. Now tanks can aoe hate in pvp! Healers are still healers, summoners are still worthless because no one knows how to play one and debuff properly; they'd rather stand there and shoot you with a bow or be even more useless in transform. Whether those classes have reflect or not is completely irrelevant to their ability to beat other classes. It helps Oly farmer classes fight each other, it's good to have for spec weeks, and that's really about it. And no it's not unfair if one nuker has reflect and another doesn't because even during 1a augment removal getting passive reflect wasn't cheap, so I'd be willing to bet the nuker with the reflect aug(s) has better gear and skill OEs as well.
These posts you make show you have no grasp on how end game pvp/Oly really works and you just argue on these forums for the sake of arguing.
You complain about augments making 1v1 fights unbalanced. Pre-GoD, the best Oly healers had 4+ nuke augments. Is it unfair that they almost never lost matches after spending billions making those weapons? No, their investment is justified in the victory percentage, and they better have an advantage over their competition for putting so much into it. Is it unfair for one nuker in a spec match to have a Valakas when the other doesn't? No. Is it unfair if one dagger has a reuse augment and the other doesn't? No. Is it unfair if one uses a DP talisman and the other doesn't? No. Some players will always have an advantage over others, who will cry over and over again about how they can't win because it's not handed to them on a silver platter. L2's game mechanics are all about being competitive and gearing yourself to be better than everyone else, so if that means you have something other players don't, congratulations. If you're someone who doesn't have that something, you need to accept that, or do something to change it.
QFT, this clearly illustrates why reflect is fine, as equipment disparity between players is INTENTIONAL.
This game is not about equal footing, if you want that go play an fps. In L2 you have the ability to amass gear and levels to make yourself stronger than your peers.
Too many tears in this thread, people have forgotten what this game was about and what has made it survive for the past 8+ years.
reflect is ok but healers with nukes aug was not ... if u get heal augment u can spam it effecitve same as Healers spam nukes (especially that holy solar flare or something) ??
In L2 you have the ability to amass gear and levels to make yourself stronger than your peers. ok ok but some ppl do it 24/7 and this is NOT INTENTIONAL - they get lvls easy, they get gear easy (ofc it changed little in GoD) / (and quess who got adena for getting reflect aug ? :> ) and later they scream to some legit lowbie UUUUU ARE SCRUBBBB ...
QFT, this clearly illustrates why reflect is fine, as equipment disparity between players is INTENTIONAL.
This game is not about equal footing, if you want that go play an fps. In L2 you have the ability to amass gear and levels to make yourself stronger than your peers.
Too many tears in this thread, people have forgotten what this game was about and what has made it survive for the past 8+ years.
Repeating the point that was already made. Reading comprehension too much for you?
That reflect is real pain in the azz especially for the range DD. This isn't normal in oly i crit 12k on some robe and he reflects me 10.5k and also the skill effect (stun or even one reflected me RECOIL WTF !?!??!?!). yeah now ppl will say" but u got VR on range skills" well take it back to the old state when range attacks weren't able to reflect and didn't use VR function. It's full on comic for and archer to suicide in a robe user when he couldn't even cast once (cos of the despiration and the flash.)
P.S I laughed my azz off when a 95+ Tyrr warrior suicided in me with 4 reflected skills on my 90 archer :D
QFT, this clearly illustrates why reflect is fine, as equipment disparity between players is INTENTIONAL.
This game is not about equal footing, if you want that go play an fps. In L2 you have the ability to amass gear and levels to make yourself stronger than your peers.
Too many tears in this thread, people have forgotten what this game was about and what has made it survive for the past 8+ years.
Not suprised by this reply coming from ppl who "report bugs" just to show off their gear.
Your logic is the same as this:
" bring augments to 1 hit kill players, the biggest farmers are rewarded for their hardwork so they deserve to have a broken game-mechanic by their side".
you have nothing good to contribute and are just parroting others because you can't come up with anything yourself. (c) 1Peri1
This game is not about equal footing, if you want that go play an fps. In L2 you have the ability to amass gear and levels to make yourself stronger than your peers.
This is true. I don't have problem with i.e. a single person obtaining 100% magical crit chance, as long as it is one person on whole server, or amount of such people is proportional to difficulty of obtaining certain overpowered item.
That said, banning everyone, who obtained their 50% reflect with illegal means would probably fix the reflect issue itself.
And this is what I hope NC US will be doing untill NC Korea relase balancing patch that will tone reflect down - which (I mean the ballancing patch, not the bans) for sure will happen, as well as happened with 100% magical crits.
Make it possible to stack equivalent amounts of VR to counter the current amounts of reflect. Buff per buff, passive per passive... open up the equivalent option for drain. Or cap reflect to the same level as drain. That's how it works in most games with these features and is in my opinion the governing issue here. Sorry for those of you who invested billions for your pointy sticks but from the design perspective this is the only sound decision they could make if indeed anything is to be changed by this.
Reflect damage augment passive on weapon
reflect damage active on another weapon
valakas
wat else?
It's enough to have 50% or more of your damage reflected, no matter anything.
This is totally stupid. It remind me times when ppl killed Valakas buffing reflect on 1 lvl char...
It's a BUG, which makes this game ******ed.
On mass pvp I die only when I start hitting ppl... my own damage kills me.. nice game.
/discuss
It's called personal setup. Not everyone can have a valakas and sorry if you are butt hurt but one will not stop using his valakas or augument passive reflect or buffs because of you.
The resources are out there for all. Go ahead and pimp up your char. L2 has been like this for ages, this is not something new.
PS; This is also a lesson to those who just hit targets without caring for the outcome. It's like complaining about tanks because they can pwn mages via their own dmg. Sorry if you can't read it when someone uses a skill but the game won't change for you.
PS2; This "NCJoke" joke is getting old and time to move on and come up with something else. Every butt hurt in this game comes on forum makes a thread about "NCJokeLOL" and thinks something will change.
Guys did you tried to kill summoner with full buff and no equipment ? !!!:mad:
I already tried , NO WAY . I died after 3 of my skills...:eek::eek::eek:
Guys did you tried to kill summoner with full buff and no equipment ? !!!:mad:
I already tried , NO WAY . I died after 3 of my skills...:eek::eek::eek:
Ya, im pretty sure that there's a break point, that will get the enemy killed if you take out gear BUT have enough p def to survive the atack. You will reflect 30k but only take 25k dmg for example.
If you get attacked with that mana barrier on your mana is going ot get demolished, plain and simple. Especially outside of Olympiad where you are likely to get targetted by more than one person on a Wizard. You can go from full mana to none in like 5 seconds with that skill and no healer wants to RB that early just cause the dumb wizard used Mana Barrier.
And if i get targetted by more than 1 enemy's they will steal my mana????
Ohhhhh!!!
Please dont scare little wizards,they wont go to mass pvps!
(mana barrier as like any other skill is been designed to be used on specific moments,it is up to player's intelligence to find out which are these moments)
The problem is that those specific moments where that skill is useful are so few and far in between that the skill itself is almost worthless. I'm not a Human or Elf but if Mana Barrier replaces Damage Reflects I would never take it and lose those buffs. It's too bad, especiall in the Olympiad the reflects are superior when stacked with Epic Neck and an Augment.
PS; This is also a lesson to those who just hit targets without caring for the outcome. It's like complaining about tanks because they can pwn mages via their own dmg. Sorry if you can't read it when someone uses a skill but the game won't change for you.
Get out of here.
Dude pls stop to use this L2 Ranger crap , Get out of here....
This is true. I don't have problem with i.e. a single person obtaining 100% magical crit chance, as long as it is one person on whole server, or amount of such people is proportional to difficulty of obtaining certain overpowered item.
That said, banning everyone, who obtained their 50% reflect with illegal means would probably fix the reflect issue itself.
By illegal means? You get a bunch of stones and like 10 low C weps and start augmenting. Expensive? Possibly. Illegal? No.
Lets say Yul Archer with apo +15 bless hits a 86lvl summoner with reflect ....... oouupss Yul dead. Summoner wins.
Why wasting time leveling 99. Just grab a nightmare reflect and Alleluia.
Reflect is advantage that u gain because of vampiric. Not to get overpowered. Reflect is to balance the vampiric because if u hit for 3k with 50k overall points to loose u will be even more annoyed by the endless pvp and ur stupid summons which my personal appinion is the most annoying thing in God why da fak u made a char perfect for botting.
Tanks. "Hate aura" all nukers die. Lets seee ... 5 tanks 2 healers. Hmm interesting.... Healers heal and reflect tanks imposible to kill with healer`s balance, great amount of HP in the party making balance life works optimal .... i wonder ....
How long it will take until u get bored, everybody to punch u in the face and suicide and u run arround like a brainless idiot? Example Tyrr "oO Nightmare tank". Hit.Suicide.
Lineage 2 lesson:
Never hit a tank in Nightmare.
And as i remember from past exp reflect isnt so hard to get ...
oO almost forgot Tyrr Doombringer .... every 2 minutes he gives u 180%... or something ...? And the typical Mage vs archer pvp with reflects the mage hits the archer crit result = Both dead.
You would say farm bla bla make defence but 99 get owned by 89 or something ... Come on.
Just delete Archers, Mages and daggers pliz with will be alot less pain in the ***.
Once ago i thought this game is about making the player develop a strategy how to kill various opponents party(solo).
I cannot disagree with you peps, now you need to make strategy avoiding physical//magical contact .... hmmm something is wrong. The developers faked me up and gave me skills which make Tons of dmg .... why??? I need augument Greater battle heal and a HP boost.
But i`m missing something ... somebody has to kill those mobs ... its all about PvE.
Oly .... where to start ... from 35 classes or something you get reduced to 8. Lets forget the fact you need to develop alot less tactics, alot less fun and say okay i get reduced but i get alot more variety of skills and different tactics against each class ... and face the fact that 3 classes dominate the oly(we can put tyrr maybe because of rappose stance + body reconstruct or eye to eye). As i see the result is clear on my server heroes say join Oly .... oO. Thats retail or some private server?
Whats the point of playing a game that if you hit first and hit hard you die? Because the opponent has a disadvantage only 20% of the dmg? I think NC developed a game in which speed and dynamics is constant.
This thread is entertaining in that the only people who are really defending this broken mechanic are the people who have at least 1 reflect damage augment.
Cause you know it costs a lot to try to get active reflect on a low C grade weapon to just buff yourself :P Yea, all that time and money :P
By illegal means? You get a bunch of stones and like 10 low C weps and start augmenting. Expensive? Possibly. Illegal? No.
Depends. If you're buying Lifestones they cost adena, and of course it costs to put them on. Using low C weapons is the cheapest option, but only for active buffs - not passive. Some people act like people are chain augmenting R grade weapons which is laughable.
Some people have botted up a ton of lifestones and adena to farm their augments and the adena to put them on, though, or ebayed a ton of adena so that can be what he means by "illegal means" which I guess is a valid concern in all this, even if not all that factorable.
Well, 50% is a total joke, capping it at 25% or less would work just perfectly.
And some people mention VR effect on ranged attack? Well, they only cover hp and not nearly as much as regular 10% reflect.
As a mage, i drop most of my cp just by nuking target, even if its stand still and do nothing with only standart 10% reflect from iss buff. Give them reflect buff for 5 min and all they have to do is to stand still and watch me kill myself. Especially healers in oly. It doesn't take ANY skill to stand still, watch TV and throw couple heals on yourself, while checking monitor from time to time on how fast your opponent die.
Where is a competition, challenge? Get yourself a reflect stick and don't even bother leveling.
Get yourself a reflect stick and don't even bother leveling.
this is really not that simple as u guys make it sound like, in all the years I've augmented weapons I have never gotten a reflect damage augment and we're talking about 4+k LS here..
go look up the definition of NC Soft Korean Random it has a huge adena zink picture next to it.
the free augment week is the main reason we have this many around as trust me not many chars have the adena to cover the removal fee of the amount of LS it takes to get this augment on any gear above A grade..
it has gone even this far that there has been an augment option added to the illegal 3rd party soft to augment for you as do the math it takes days to manually add/remove ~3k LS and after augmenting last weekend burning through ~400 LS wasting 1,5 day at the blacksmith with bleedings eyes I can tell you that it is very tempting to instal those progs just for that function.
ps, Sace if the last part is offensive then plz add it as a very needed suggestion for the Korean Dev's and then feel free to modify my text..
Personally I don't think skills should be reflected, should be melee-only autoattacks.
Any jewel with reflect
reflect passive
reflect active
triple reflect.
Last I checked, when 25 is doubled, it equals 50. When 25 is tripled, it equals 75. The 3 reflects you're comparing, when compared to this lovely scenario, only really hit...55? That's not triple reflect.
I wish you people were here before GoD, when a certain clan used my beloved dwarf to roflstomp a party of titans at a fort siege by just having me stand there with my reflects and toggles on and getting about 115% reflect with 3 healers spamming heals on me. Never seen such an influx of reflect complaints until F2P...shocker.
I didnt read all the replies to this so I may be restating it.
Sure everyone can get these retartedly out of ballance augment's, BUT....
Now I havent done Oly yet but, What does a nuker with reflect do against a healer with these reflect augments? Think about it....
You see, simple people, It's not that some people are too poor to get the augments, gimme a break that's their own fault.. It's that some classes with this setup become almost unbeatable and there is no counter for several classes.. This creates a huge gap in ballance which makes people want to quit and lowers the population. I played dead L2 long enough, lets get this fixed!
It seems pretty simple, if a new augmentation change to the game makes it so that one class is nearly unbeatable, it needs to be changed.
Also it's really too much, Reflect should only reflect a small ammount of damage. Maybe cap it like NcSoft did to mage crits at 20%. I droped a bubble at the seige yesterday and BLAMO, im dead because someone had reflect on and I crit.... gg... This happens often with AoE now.
Broken PvP FTL
*The people who spent billions are getting nervous*
Oh yea and making it against the rules to put reflect on mobs? are you kidding me? What were some bot groups getting messed with or something? When you buff mobs, you flag, correct? So whoever youre ******* off can kill you, correct? Why the F does this need to be against the rules? Someone should make lowbie toons from a random IP and buff mobs on all the servers just because of how stupid you are.... Can we stop making carebear rules that encourage people to go to that other game that just came out.
You have to understand people like the ones defending this, who have the augments, like diego for example....
This guy hasn't played the game without every single advantage ever made by NcSoft and lots that he made himself.... ;) This guy has played for years. Now he makes the game his occupation.. Do you know how often I have ever seen this guy alone, outside town, flagging for pvp? Never, you know why? It's never happened... These types don't want to play unless they have every advantage and even then they are too scared. It's fear that drives them and it is fear that is making them cry in this post. Fear of waisting billions on reflect and having it get Nerfed by NcSoft.:p
I didnt read all the replies to this so I may be restating it.
Sure everyone can get these retartedly out of ballance augment's, BUT....
Now I havent done Oly yet but, What does a nuker with reflect do against a healer with these reflect augments? Think about it....
You see, simple people, It's not that some people are too poor to get the augments, gimme a break that's their own fault.. It's that some classes with this setup become almost unbeatable and there is no counter for several classes.. This creates a huge gap in ballance which makes people want to quit and lowers the population. I played dead L2 long enough, lets get this fixed!
It seems pretty simple, if a new augmentation change to the game makes it so that one class is nearly unbeatable, it needs to be changed.
Also it's really too much, Reflect should only reflect a small ammount of damage. Maybe cap it like NcSoft did to mage crits at 20%. I droped a bubble at the seige yesterday and BLAMO, im dead because someone had reflect on and I crit.... gg... This happens often with AoE now.
Broken PvP FTL
*The people who spent billions are getting nervous*
These arguments make less and less sense as this thread continues. A nuker shouldn't be killing a healer anyway unless they get a string of crits, so reflect is irrelevant in the outcome of that fight; it merely ends the fight quicker for the healer. The same class balance as with prior updates is still present: healer > nuker in Oly. I love hearing all the archers and nukers crying about reflect, as if that would make the classes suck any less in Oly. "I smash mobs I should be able to kill players just as fast, but I kill myself on reflect cuz my damage is too amazing!" Guess what, reflect or not you will still lose to healer/summoner/tank because those three classes are innately dominate in the 1v1 environment of Oly.
Freya update: healers with 4+ nuke augs = virtually unbeatable; stacked soulhound with reuse aug and ++soul of pain = virtually unbeatable; stacked OL, even with no amazing augments = virtually unbeatable. Certain classes excel at 1v1, others do not. That is the bottom line. Was it unfair that hell knights had shield of revenge which prevented daggers from stabbing them, lest they kill themselves?
Here's a humbling fact to think about. Even if everyone was equally geared in Oly--same gear, same enchant, no augments--the people crying in this thread right now would still be getting crushed by the true Oly farmers because they are simply better than you at this game. What will be the argument then? It's unfair that they have a better grasp on the class than you do?
I spent billions years ago acquiring all of the active augments that exist to be prepared for any fight in Oly, and it just so happens I couldn't care less if reflect gets changed. In fact, it amuses me how so many people think changing it will make the slightest bit of difference in a 1v1 fight. Whatever helps you feel better I suppose.
Next it will be unfair to nukers that former stormscreamers can keep emp echo. Or it will be unfair to warriors that former duelists can keep duelist spirit. Or that former elemental masters keep seraphim. Or that former adventurers can keep dash. Or that some archers kept rapid shot. The list is neverending.
This guy hasn't played the game without every single advantage ever made by NcSoft and lots that he made himself.... This guy has played for years. Now he makes the game his occupation.. Do you know how often I have ever seen this guy alone, outside town, flagging for pvp? Never, you know why? It's never happened... These types don't want to play unless they have every advantage and even then they are too scared. It's fear that drives them and it is fear that is making them cry in this post. Fear of waisting billions on reflect and having it get Nerfed by NcSoft
Diego's is the most active pvp party in Nova. You rarely see any of them pvping solo because there is no solo xp at 96+, ergo no one to gank. And it's no fun ganking lowbies.
I'm not sure what your obsession with fear is, but you clearly have no concept of end game. I spent billions OEing all of my skills, NCSoft deleted all of those. Did I cry about it? No, I kept playing the game with the new changes.
You have to understand people like the ones defending this, who have the augments, like diego for example....
This guy hasn't played the game without every single advantage ever made by NcSoft and lots that he made himself.... ;) This guy has played for years. Now he makes the game his occupation.. Do you know how often I have ever seen this guy alone, outside town, flagging for pvp? Never, you know why? It's never happened... These types don't want to play unless they have every advantage and even then they are too scared. It's fear that drives them and it is fear that is making them cry in this post. Fear of waisting billions on reflect and having it get Nerfed by NcSoft.:p
There are a lot of game mechanic issues that could use some rebalancing. I have active reflect, would love passive reflect too (tried for it but hasn't happened yet), but I would understand if they nerfed it too. However, you shouldn't really slam people for trying to take advantage of whatever the current game mechanics allow for.
Some examples of mechanics that need rebalancing:
95+ healers in heavy
Summoners with bows
Summoners in heavy
Delf mages with old skills
Delf healers with pow
Light Elf summoners with pony buff
Light Elf enchanters with songs
They will probably fix some of those eventually and then new ones will pop up. That's just the reality of competitive play.
I don't find this unbalanced on a pvp perspective. summoners 90+ rely on magic to do anything. Also there's signs that the mains devs want summoners using bows, because on raids like balok, summons are suposed to be tanks and suck in dmg + drain while tank stays far from their point of view. The bow feature is pretty much made on purpose. Also comes in as costumization.
They already have a huge penalty on casting speed and as a summoner i can tell you, using a bow on pvp against tough oponents is the worst thing you wanna do.
I don't find this unbalanced on a pvp perspective. summoners 90+ rely on magic to do anything. Also there's signs that the mains devs want summoners using bows, because on raids like balok, summons are suposed to be tanks and suck in dmg + drain while tank stays far from their point of view. The bow feature is pretty much made on purpose. Also comes in as costumization.
They already have a huge penalty on casting speed and as a summoner i can tell you, using a bow on pvp against tough oponents is the worst thing you wanna do.
I'm talking game mechanics in general, and it's possible it's by design, but it's more likely that it's something they overlooked. I have summoners in my constant so I'm more than happy to have it keep going, but I smell eventual nerf coming to that.
There are a lot of game mechanic issues that could use some rebalancing. I have active reflect, would love passive reflect too (tried for it but hasn't happened yet), but I would understand if they nerfed it too. However, you shouldn't really slam people for trying to take advantage of whatever the current game mechanics allow for.
Some examples of mechanics that need rebalancing:
95+ healers in heavy
Summoners with bows
Summoners in heavy
Delf mages with old skills
Delf healers with pow
Light Elf summoners with pony buff
Light Elf enchanters with songs
They will probably fix some of those eventually and then new ones will pop up. That's just the reality of competitive play.
all of the above gets fixed in Glory days update more or less and as I'm aware of it now I have time to get used to the though about it as erm yes Retri they will take away all Pre Awakening skills then among others as well re balancing on what armors & passives will do etc.
there will be even changes to the whole reflect damage issue so enjoy things for now & the Tauti update as after that it will all change again.
I'm talking game mechanics in general, and it's possible it's by design, but it's more likely that it's something they overlooked. I have summoners in my constant so I'm more than happy to have it keep going, but I smell eventual nerf coming to that.
The fact summoners can solo certain party spots can be kind of scary yea, but we also have o look at a high end game perspective. If they are nerfed it will be more of a reason to exclude summoners, since people will enchant skills, get better gear while summoners gear doesn't give a boost as big as it does to all other classes.
Since it's been god-harmony-tauti and now glory days i'm hoping it stays the way it is. The class has already it's annoying issues..summon bug when we can't summon anything, pets get easily stuck, skills cannot be pressed twice while far away or it screws up the summon positioning and on top of that, the skills have delays specially when summon is not in range. I hope that to compensate for those annoying lil things we don't get nerfed ><
LOL people think its EASY to get reflect, sorry friends its not vey easy to do this, but i mean if u think getting passive reflect, then active, then a +30 buff then rune and valkakas, ya sure u will have a lot, bet u can name a whole like what , 5 peopel IF THAT who have it ? lol i dont even have it, but hey i dont cry. Will they fix it, ya probably, what u gonna do till then ? post about it till they take it away? nice job, yet another subject we waste GMs time with instead of important issues, like , why pets get stuck on walls ! fix the general game play before u start to fix the other things :)
LOL people think its EASY to get reflect, sorry friends its not vey easy to do this, but i mean if u think getting passive reflect, then active, then a +30 buff then rune and valkakas, ya sure u will have a lot, bet u can name a whole like what , 5 peopel IF THAT who have it ? lol i dont even have it, but hey i dont cry. Will they fix it, ya probably, what u gonna do till then ? post about it till they take it away? nice job, yet another subject we waste GMs time with instead of important issues, like , why pets get stuck on walls ! fix the general game play before u start to fix the other things :)
FYI reflect will be fixed, yes FIXED cause it's not working as intended.
Sweet a fix in Glory Days. So what, a year+ from now? Unless they make it chance like VR is. People will still complain about it regardless if its 20% 50% 100% cap'd etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong. And this just MIGHT be simple logic talking here. . . But aren't there classes that can actively debuff other classes? I don't know much about passive reflect (I assumed it was an applied spell), but it sounds to me like reflect is only a royal pain when stacked with the casted buffs. So why not just roll with a debuffer and reduce that 50% to like 10 or 20 (whatever is attainable through 'passives')?
This may not be a problem with the game's mechanics, but rather a problem with the players refusing who would like one class to rule them all. The game seems to offer a HUGE variety of skills and skills to counter those skills. I can't help but feel that all avenues against this 'broken' buff have not been exploited.
QFT, this clearly illustrates why reflect is fine, as equipment disparity between players is INTENTIONAL.
This game is not about equal footing, if you want that go play an fps. In L2 you have the ability to amass gear and levels to make yourself stronger than your peers.
Too many tears in this thread, people have forgotten what this game was about and what has made it survive for the past 8+ years.
i felt like highlighting the last thing
that being said from a good person i know, who used to be the legendary "First" Gladiator to >> the i am afk xping duelist and then >> diego are you finally at your pc no response player. Game went to .... once most ppl turned onto the dark side of a***ish.
At the End this game is nothing and gets you tired and bored unless your with the people you do enjoy the game with, without these people not even some boss jewels keep you motivated !
_________
about the reflect dmg, its fine stop qqing like some teenagers
adapt to the Situation and overcome it
I have got both Passive & Active reflect in my special good weapons in this event :D I spent about 50kk for augmentation (without Augu Stone's price); I felt so lucky!
Passive's appeared with Mid-stone & Active's appeared by High-stone
I see a chance of reflect between high rank attack & melee attack:
- With high rank attack: about 30% damage can be reflected
- With melee attack: about 50% damage can be reflected
It's one of my experiences :D
btw speaking of overpowered reflect augs, ya'll have one week to get yer reflect augment with 1 adena take-off fee, so get goin on that, don't know when they will give that option again
1400 stones used during the event and many more out of event( for sure more than 4000 in total) and still hoping to get it one day! But is there any info about which stone has the better probability? Here I must say that I use lvl 80+ and any grade: high , top, mid or normal! Is there any other interesting augment out if reflect or crit ?
Summoner can't have triple reflect. I regularly beat a double reflect summoner, what's your point? If you take away their balance, they're finished.
I've been playing since closed beta. I spent billions augmenting and I have every active skill I could ever want. Two flaws with your argument:
1) You're assuming everyone just stopped after getting active reflect, but hardcore augmenters all went for passive reflect on a main weapon during that event. 1a augment removal did not make that free in the least bit, it simply halved the cost of augmenting because you still had to pay for the gemstones, and possibly life stones if you didn't have a stockpile, which still adds up VERY quickly on an R grade weapon. I spent 4b during that event alone trying to get passive reflect and was unsuccessful.
2) Active reflect was a great augment to have against tanks and especially soulhound pre-GoD, and very good to have for something like sws spec, and it was rare enough anyone who got it on a crap weapon would keep it anyway.
I can play that game too. You regularly have the dumbest posts in threads I read, and your belligerent response reflects you didn't even read what I said in the first place. I, with only active reflect, 100% beat a tank with triple reflect, meaning it's possible to beat "broken mechanics" if you know what you're doing, and also assuming that you even have a chance in the first place. I don't even use reflect in 95% of my matches because it's unnecessary, but I have it if I want it. High DPS classes like Feoh and Yul, even Othell, have no chance to beat a competent tank anyway, reflect or not, so that point is moot.
I don't know about you, but I don't complain about people having better gear than me, and a reflect augment is just that. Someone who puts more time and adena into their toon should have a clear advantage, and rather than admitting that people just choose to cry about it and call it unfair.
Apparently you can't play that game too.
You say you spent 4 billion on augments alone (which is a significant amount of adena) and then go on to provide as counterargument that it is ok for people to win simply because they have better gear/luck because you dont' bedgrudge other people for having better gear than you. But you already demonstrated that you are those other people you don't bedgrudge. Your entire post boils down to trying to preserve a situation that it is in your own self interest to preserve.
PvP used to be about this thing called skill which I guess you are fine with dropping and replacing with wealth/luck. That's fine for but I am willing to make such a change nor do I see a reason why such a change is needed or should be acceptible and you certaintly didn't do much to convince me.
And saying "I beat a tank with reflect by having reflect" was just the icing on the cake here. The point you clearly missed is that reflect as a mechanic was pretty dumb to begin with and then allowing people to stack reflect from multiple sources took a bad idea and made it worse.
This reminds me of batles between soulhounds. The first to Steal buff is the looser. God i hated that stupid skill...
And here we have, another "i got this skill, i win" situation.
As a Mystic Muse that one always stung particularly hard.
Here it is that my buff removing spell was nerfed from removing all buffs 100% of the time to only removing 1-3 random buffs with a chance of not even removing one buff. And then years after that nerf to Cancel they came around and gave Soulhounds the ability to not only remove all buffs but to apply all those buffs to themself afterwards. It was like, uh what about us? Why is our cancel still nerfed?