I'm an AeroHealer, moving close to 95 and been thinking of the next gear upgrade - Seraph. During the last siege, noticed a fewhealers 95+ using the Serpah heavy set. The casting is not an issue at that level with the toggle skill - Franatic healing - increase by 30% casting speed & 30% MP Consumption.
Now wondering if heavy set is enough for farming mode on that level as well to avoid having to do 2x sets Seraph.
The casting speed has never been an issue at any level, people are just too stupid to ingnore numbers and test stuff ingame.
I've been using Heavy since 86 on my low wit orc healer, I always survive more than other robe healers and have more mp than other robe healers. It's especially noticeable in 2 healer parties like in 1 pty istina raids, fortuna or even back in terredor.
I'll be using heavy for r95 and I won't be using the cast speed toggle much outside of pvp.
What ppl do is use heavy for pve/pvp and robe for oly VS mage/healer/etc.
Since robe is good against specific classes in OLY, they change to robe to fight them. Imagine 2 healers going 1 vs 1, one with robe and the other with heavy.
What ppl do is use heavy for pve/pvp and robe for oly VS mage/healer/etc.
Since robe is good against specific classes in OLY, they change to robe to fight them. Imagine 2 healers going 1 vs 1, one with robe and the other with heavy.
Yup, sadly it makes robes a very rare-use item since it's only in oly and only 2 out of 8 classes. I use s80 robes anyway for full resist and the 5% decreased pvp damage, which works on nukes too.
So if you use heavy what do you do in the rare cases where you run out of MP in Karita and rebirth isn't up? Having a robe set your cast speed is such that you don't need to use the heal saving you MP as well as having a much larger MP maximum.
Well the answer is simple, keep 2x sets in inventory and switch according to the situation. Mostly for farming personally I prefer robe set for the passive skills the class has. Also might be an option at this stage to get both sets seraph, robe set is quite cheap compared to the Heavy, at least on Naia server.
OK, I'm a bit tired of pointing out answers people should be checking for themselves so I'll give you the questions and let you answer them for me, even though I know the answer.
A) How much actual difference is there in MP between robes and heavy when fully buffed with clan skills like holy squad?
B) What actual passive benefits do healers gain from wearing robes outside of the robe set bonus.
C) what's the MP regen amount added per tick on +6 twi or seraph heavy set (I don't know this one, I wanna know though).
90 Elf with Lv2 ISS Buffs and no sonata
(Cast Max MP)
Heavy (1,154 11,226)
Light (1,306 11,373) (BW light had +3 Men)
Robe (1,361 12,455)
Overall difference in casting speed and MP is much less than I expected. Might look into it if it isn't changed when I hit R95. I don't have the cash to make a third elemented set of R armor.
Human Aeore in Robes has over 14k MP, though. How do you only have 12? Worse clan skills?
MP Regen Added per tick is almost ignorable since you have Rebirth on a 10 minute timer, though. In PvP MP Regen is generally ignorable and in PvP it's ignorable if you use stacked healers (which almost all decent PvP groups do). A sigil only adds 2 MP/tick on a Human. Some PvE content calls for double healers as well, as Ferine mentioned. Really it's not something you should really be considering that much. I guess it can be useful for Epic raids, but you should be stacking healers there as well (at least on the challenging ones like Freya Extreme Mode, etc.).
No one will wear BW Light armor in R Grade, and it has -1 WIT. The bonuses for Light Armor in R grade are nice, though - from the passive I mean (namely the 300 M.Def, etc.).
Personally I go Light for Groups and Robes for soloing except in Kartia where I wear light as well, with a Retributer.
Gear-heavy class, IMO, unless you go for the least common denominator and just wear heavy all the time. A lot of damage is not physical, though.
Human Aeore in Robes has over 14k MP, though. How do you only have 12? Worse clan skills?
MP Regen Added per tick is almost ignorable since you have Rebirth on a 10 minute timer, though. In PvP MP Regen is generally ignorable and in PvP it's ignorable if you use stacked healers (which almost all decent PvP groups do). A sigil only adds 2 MP/tick on a Human. Some PvE content calls for double healers as well, as Ferine mentioned. Really it's not something you should really be considering that much. I guess it can be useful for Epic raids, but you should be stacking healers there as well (at least on the challenging ones like Freya Extreme Mode, etc.).
No one will wear BW Light armor in R Grade, and it has -1 WIT. The bonuses for Light Armor in R grade are nice, though - from the passive I mean (namely the 300 M.Def, etc.).
Personally I go Light for Groups and Robes for soloing except in Kartia where I wear light as well, with a Retributer.
Gear-heavy class, IMO, unless you go for the least common denominator and just wear heavy all the time. A lot of damage is not physical, though.
Tren see my question B on the last post. I'll give you the answer.... the ONLY passive bonus from light or robes is p.def, you get the M.def, mp regen, int etc in any armor.
You've got to either be exploiting the light mastery bug, only own a light set or be a complete moron to be using light armor on a healer out of preference. MOST pve damage is physical so p.def makes a massive difference. Mp regen is also very important, even little bits like sigil help in PvE as you have to last out the 10 minutes between rebirths. When mp goes low people hold back and slower kills with less heals makes people die. Granted 2 mp a tick doesn't seem much but it's ~15% more mp over time.
@Caliaa you are correct, the MP boost from robes is a static ~1200 mp regardless of buffs, basically what's in the set bonus. So about 6-7 panic heals.
I reach 14k MP in full TW Heavy set, with full buff + Holy Squad. 18k with mana up in weapon.
I wrote the question so people who post here saying "robes give tons more mp, you'll run out in heavy" actually pulled their finger out and tested stuff themselves. You get about 1200 more mp from robes no matter what buff you have, which in all honesty isn't a massive amount when as you say you have 14k mp in heavy anyway.
Too many people on officials make statements but haven't tried anything in game and are clueless.
You seem to have low MP btw, I have 17k full buffed with holy squad in my immo hvy set.
Tren see my question B on the last post. I'll give you the answer.... the ONLY passive bonus from light or robes is p.def, you get the M.def, mp regen, int etc in any armor.
You've got to either be exploiting the light mastery bug, only own a light set or be a complete moron to be using light armor on a healer out of preference. MOST pve damage is physical so p.def makes a massive difference. Mp regen is also very important, even little bits like sigil help in PvE as you have to last out the 10 minutes between rebirths. When mp goes low people hold back and slower kills with less heals makes people die. Granted 2 mp a tick doesn't seem much but it's ~15% more mp over time.
@Caliaa you are correct, the MP boost from robes is a static ~1200 mp regardless of buffs, basically what's in the set bonus. So about 6-7 panic heals.
15% more MP over time is terrible because it's still 15% of a terrible number. That's the issue with MP Regen bonuses in this game. Base MP Regen is absolutely terrible which makes even seemingly high bonus numbers terrible as a result.
Plus, there is a ton of stacked Clarity now.
If you can't make it to rebirth with 17 MP/Tick regen, you won't make it with 19 MP/Tick regen. Maybe it matters more to you because you use heavy armor which gives you a worse base MP/Regen rate and lower mana pool from the get go, but on Robed Healers with a Holy Squad, Clarity/Reuse Sub Skill, and a Mana Up (or even just Acumen) weapon if you even have to consider MP Regen in the equation something is wrong. (1200 mana is more than 6-7 panic heals when you consider all the stacked clarity a healer can [or rather, should] have).
I said a lot of damage isn't Physical, which is correct. The passive text is written wrong, but I did log in game and test it. I was just too lazy to edit my post. Personally haven't felt the need to wear heavy armor on Aeore, and nor have many other healers I've grouped with or know in clan who have no issues staying alive.
I wrote the question so people who post here saying "robes give tons more mp, you'll run out in heavy" actually pulled their finger out and tested stuff themselves. You get about 1200 more mp from robes no matter what buff you have, which in all honesty isn't a massive amount when as you say you have 14k mp in heavy anyway.
Too many people on officials make statements but haven't tried anything in game and are clueless.
You seem to have low MP btw, I have 17k full buffed with holy squad in my immo hvy set.
Orcs are higher Men than some other races so their base mana pool is higher which affects how much mana they get from buffs. Not sure if it's a 3k difference, but an Orc should have a higher buffed mana pool than an equivalently geared healer of most other races.
As for the Light Armor, I use it instead of Heavy because it's higher P.Def/HP than Robes and has Clarity in the set bonus. Clarity is > MP Regen and the P.Def is a nice balance and of course I made a +4 Chest for that bonus. And yes the clarity works on spells, I already tested that one a long time ago :P
15% more MP over time is terrible because it's still 15% of a terrible number. That's the issue with MP Regen bonuses in this game. Base MP Regen is absolutely terrible which makes even seemingly high bonus numbers terrible as a result.
Plus, there is a ton of stacked Clarity now.
If you can't make it to rebirth with 17 MP/Tick regen, you won't make it with 19 MP/Tick regen. Maybe it matters more to you because you use heavy armor which gives you a worse base MP/Regen rate and lower mana pool from the get go, but on Robed Healers with a Holy Squad, Clarity/Reuse Sub Skill, and a Mana Up (or even just Acumen) weapon if you even have to consider MP Regen in the equation something is wrong. (1200 mana is more than 6-7 panic heals when you consider all the stacked clarity a healer can [or rather, should] have).
I said a lot of damage isn't Physical, which is correct. The passive text is written wrong, but I did log in game and test it. I was just too lazy to edit my post. Personally haven't felt the need to wear heavy armor on Aeore, and nor have many other healers I've grouped with or know in clan who have no issues staying alive.
Odd, I often see other healers 1 shot in places like reptilikon, fortuna or istina and so on. Even happens a lot in Kartia, Cokra or other places. I guess you take knights instead of wizards like a 'pro' huh?
The fact is +2 mp a tick is decent when the loss is nothing, you don't really need a shield.
Little info for you too, robes don't have ANY more mp regen than heavy, significantly less in some circumstances and the extra mp is 1.3k static, not affected by buffs or weapons or so on. I've never been in a party where I have less mp or die more than the other healer and I handle all raids as solo healer fine, even 1 party Istina without needing rebirth etc. Guess my mp regen heavy setup sucks.
Anyway, keep doing what you do, it keeps you happy, ignorance is bliss. I don't need to keep coming on here showing people my findings because they're too stupid to learn themselves.
Odd, I often see other healers 1 shot in places like reptilikon, fortuna or istina and so on. Even happens a lot in Kartia, Cokra or other places. I guess you take knights instead of wizards like a 'pro' huh?
I don't die in Kartia or Reptilicon (nevermind Cokracon) in Light Armor (+4 BP). No, I don't take Knight Harmony, but I don't see what's wrong with a Robed Healer taking knights when even you said the Casting Speed difference isn't a big deal and in places like SoA healers don't even need the Clarity in Magician's Harmony due to herbs dropping, or if you have a summoner in party in other places.
The fact is +2 mp a tick is decent when the loss is nothing, you don't really need a shield.
The fact is also that +2 MP Regen is forgettable and should not be a consideration when you gear up a healer, so I'm not really sure why you're quizing people on how much MP Regen a +6 TW set adds when it really doesn't matter cause that MP regen will practically never matter. You may have convinced yourself it does - it doesn't.
I never said I grouped with a Retributer. I use it so do instances like Nursery, Kartia Solo and solo in fields when necessary (Daily Quests, etc.). Higher M.Atk = better nukes, obviously.
Little info for you too, robes don't have ANY more mp regen than heavy, significantly less in some circumstances and the extra mp is 1.3k static, not affected by buffs or weapons or so on. I've never been in a party where I have less mp or die more than the other healer and I handle all raids as solo healer fine, even 1 party Istina without needing rebirth etc. Guess my mp regen heavy setup sucks.
Magic Type Set Bonus has MP Regen, so that's wrong. +30 Crit is > some Heal Power in the Recovery Set. +1 WIT doesn't measure up. Light Armor has Clarity in the set bonus and is a nice compromize between Heavy P.Def and Robe MP levels for a bit more stamina.
Now, let me state a fact to you. MP Regen in Robes is higher than in Heavy. Mana Pools/Crit Rate are higher in Robes. Clarity is higher in Light. But you're sitting here talking about how your "MP Regen Heavy Setup" rocks. You have nothing but a +6 Regen Set Bonus over other healers, which is as ignorable as the Sigil bonus, and that simply isn't enough to make your Mana Endurance that much better than theirs - or better in any discernable way at all. You're probably only regenning about 500 more mana over a 10 minute period than they are, and that's being rather generous.
The MP Regen isn't why they're running lower on mana than you are, their buffs and what they're casting is what's causing the disparity there. You don't have to wear heavy to survive, though you're free to if you want to. A healer in light shouldn't have any issues surviving and will have better mana endurance than a healer in Heavy will. There are more benefits to Heavy in PvP than in PvE, IMO, though there are benefits to robes/light there as well.
Anyway, keep doing what you do, it keeps you happy, ignorance is bliss. I don't need to keep coming on here showing people my findings because they're too stupid to learn themselves.
Same to you.
You act like you discovered some rare fossil by telling us that you can wear Heavy Armor for more P.Def than Robes or Light and that there aren't any factorable deficits in doing so. Your findings, Lol. Seriously?
By my findings I mean giving stats of stuff I've tested in game because clearly most people don't have a clue. Like you as you say 'assume and probably' a lot rather than "My tests showed".
I'm aware of the 10% skill clarity on light (if it works on magic) but the -con and rest of the bonuses SUCK. The 3% mcrit on robe is like 2 mcrit and the mp regen 'bonus' is less than 1mp a tick. If you're saying athe 2mp a tick off a sigil for no loss sucks then how can u say robes rock for mp regen when you lose so much in the way of p.def? LOL.
And I'm sorry but your 'fact' is laughably wrong, there's nothing but set bonus between mp regen in robes and heavy, if you count 0.6 mp a tick as a bonus, lol. The +6 bonus on heavy really sucks but it's nice to show off.
By my findings I mean giving stats of stuff I've tested in game because clearly most people don't have a clue. Like you as you say 'assume and probably' a lot rather than "My tests showed".
I've already given my findings on things. Like, how terrible those MP Regen bonuses suck. Now you're trying to justify your idiotic rationale surrounding that stat with personal attacks. I've rarely gotten the chance to converse with such blatant hypocrites.
I'm aware of the 10% skill clarity on light (if it works on magic) but the -con and rest of the bonuses SUCK.
Summoner in Immortal Light (4% Clarity in Bonus):
MP cost of mana sharing in Immortal Robes: 1315 MP with no buffs
MP cost of mana sharing in Immortal Light: 1263 MP with no buffs
1315 - 1263 = 52
1315 * 0.04 = 52.6
Conclusion: Works on spells
-1 CON isn't a big deal. Really, it isn't, but you should know that cause of course you know +1 WIT isn't a big deal either since we agreed in another thread that it's about equal to half a CON pre-GoD. This is especially true considering the Clarity bonus jumps from 4% to 10% going from Immortal to Twilight...
+30 M.Crit Rate to the Stat Screen, as in 3% Critical Rate (every 10 is 1%, but I'm assuming you know at least that).
and the mp regen 'bonus' is less than 1mp a tick. If you're saying athe 2mp a tick off a sigil for no loss sucks then how can u say robes rock for mp regen when you lose so much in the way of p.def? LOL.
I never said the robe MP bonus rocked, it sucks as well. Please quote me. Nevermind, I'll do that for you:
Magic Type Set Bonus has MP Regen, so that's wrong. +30 Crit is > some Heal Power in the Recovery Set.
^^^ Yep, I clearly said the MP Regen rocked. /sarcasm
I said the Robes have higher Regen than Heavy, which you claimed they didn't. All I did was tell you you were wrong.
I clearly stated that the best compromise for MP Endurance and and P.Def was light armor. -1 CON from Light Armor is almost ignorable.
And I'm sorry but your 'fact' is laughably wrong, there's nothing but set bonus between mp regen in robes and heavy, if you count 0.6 mp a tick as a bonus, lol. The +6 bonus on heavy really sucks but it's nice to show off.
Fact is correct (why it's called a fact). You were wrong and obviously didn't "test" some things. 0.6 is a bonus. It's bonus MP Regen in the set bonus, and can easily make the game roll up to another +1 MP/Tick Regen which is half the Sigil bonus - which you say is rather decent.
Additionally, if the +6 Bonus on heavy sucks then what about your "MP Regen Heavy Setup" that actually isn't? Wasn't the whole rationale behind this "MP Regen Heavy Setup" the MP Regen bonus in the +6 Bonus, which you now say sucks, since otherwise there is no MP Regen Rate difference between Heavy and Robe/Light Armor (wrong on the robes, but for simplicity's sake)?
Backpeddling, now?
You never fail to make me smile.
Always happy to bring more joy into one's life!
The only benefit of Heavy is higher P.Def and HP/CP (since the set bonus has a CON advantage over Light Armor). With equivalent buffs a Heavy Healer will never have more mana endurance than a robed or light healer (assuming they both cast the same spells, of course, in a vacuum :P ). The Light armor +4 bonus has Physical Resistance which actually scales while the P.Def in the heavy armor bonus doesn't scale at all.
Why did you completely destroy your other posts with this one, though?
I've already given my findings on things. Like, how terrible those MP Regen bonuses suck. Now you're trying to justify your idiotic rationale surrounding that stat with personal attacks. I've rarely gotten the chance to converse with such blatant hypocrites.
Summoner in Immortal Light (4% Clarity in Bonus):
MP cost of mana sharing in Immortal Robes: 1315 MP with no buffs
MP cost of mana sharing in Immortal Light: 1263 MP with no buffs
1315 - 1263 = 52
1315 * 0.04 = 52.6
Conclusion: Works on spells
-1 CON isn't a big deal. Really, it isn't, but you should know that cause of course you know +1 WIT isn't a big deal either since we agreed in another thread that it's about equal to half a CON pre-GoD.
+30 M.Crit Rate to the Stat Screen, as in 3% Critical Rate (every 10 is 1%, but I'm assuming you know at least that).
I never said the robe MP bonus rocked, it sucks as well. Please quote me. Nevermind, I'll do that for you:
^^^ Yep, I clearly said the MP Regen rocked. /sarcasm
I said the Robes have higher Regen than Heavy, which you claimed they didn't. All I did was tell you you were wrong.
.....
Fact is correct (why it's called a fact). You were wrong and obviously didn't "test" some things. 0.6 is a bonus. It's bonus MP Regen in the set bonus, and can easily make the game roll up to another +1 MP/Tick Regen which is half the Sigil bonus - which you say is rather decent.
......
With equivalent buffs a Heavy Healer will never have more mana endurance than a robed or light healer (assuming they both cast the same spells, of course, in a vacuum :P ). The Light armor +4 bonus has Physical Resistance which actually scales better than the P.Def in the Heavy +4 the same way Stigma scales better than P.Def debuffs.
Yet again an idiot looking at ingame descriptions ignoring actual effects..... log in, take off your boots, put them back on, immo robe magic set gives +1 mcrit in my DE feoh LOL. Your 'findings' are terribly wrong as usual.
Why point out that robes give more mp regen and base an argument on it when the fact is the 0.6 mp regen boost for robes sucks. You lose nothing for using a sigil so the 2 mp isn't bad in pve, ofc use a shield for pvp etc.
To your last comment, no robes is not always the best mana endurance and the 'physical resist' is not p.def it is resist physical debuffs LOL (which is also given by +con).
Already answered your now rhetorical questions. But you're derailing the discussion. Your MP Regen Setup doesn't exist, period.
I didn't base an argument on anything. You said Robes had the same MP Regen. I said they don't and told you why. You were wrong. I wasn't arguing, it isn't even an argument. Why are you calling it that?
You based your argument on some MP Regen in a +6 set bonus, and now you're backpeddling.
Robes and Light give higher mana endurance than heavy. This is like you saying 2+2=1
What you gain from heavy is obvious, and useful if you have a lot of trouble staying alive, but mana endurance is not that.
Already answered your now rhetorical questions. But you're derailing the discussion. Your MP Regen Setup doesn't exist, period.
I didn't base an argument on anything. You said Robes had the same MP Regen. I said they don't and told you why. You were wrong. I wasn't arguing, it isn't even an argument. Why are you calling it that?
You based your argument on some MP Regen in a +6 set bonus, and now you're backpeddling.
Robes and Light give higher mana endurance than heavy. This is like you saying 2+2=1
I'm not basing any arguments on +6 bonus at all, I'd rather forget the bonus exists all together if I'm honest. Fact is that a +3 heavy set is only +0.6 mp a tick and 1300 mp less than a robe set and a little clarity less than a light set, it's not the massive mana endurance you make it out to be.
I play how I play and it works well, I'm not going to give away all my tips and stats just to prove a point. My setup does exits, my gear sucks and I always die/run out of mp. You are correct and everything you 'assume' is always correct.
I commend your skills of reading mostly broken or badly translated in game descriptions and never needing to test how things actually affect your character in game. You da man. :)
I'm thinking of getting a heavy set for my Aeore main. Not that I'm a one-shot for Cokracons anymore (just a 2-shot :D), and the look of heavy armors on female DEs is just meh, but improving my survival chances is better than petty fashion tastes.
On another note, I initially believed that Elites AoEs were magical, instead they're physical... No wonder my life bar goes down quickly if hit by one of those O.o
(Yeah, I'll admit my gear sucks terribly - except for attributes. I'm just the average traditional robe user, but the proofs Ferine brought in favor of heavy set usage has convinced me it's time to finally improve it :rolleyes:)
What's the point of this post? Oh well... Dunno, I just wanted to underline Ferine's persuasion power! :D
I wrote the question so people who post here saying "robes give tons more mp, you'll run out in heavy" actually pulled their finger out and tested stuff themselves. You get about 1200 more mp from robes no matter what buff you have, which in all honesty isn't a massive amount when as you say you have 14k mp in heavy anyway.
Too many people on officials make statements but haven't tried anything in game and are clueless.
You seem to have low MP btw, I have 17k full buffed with holy squad in my immo hvy set.
Don't have the Holy Squad skill at the moment. Used to have around 16k when I was in a clan that had level 2 of that skill. I'm trying to get this clan to learn it once we get the Rep because it's awesome.
anyway I didn't read this 2nd page of arguing but, Ferine had already convinced me to get heavy, so I finally spent all my money that I had been sitting on and now I have heavy and will use it for all pvp and some pve. significantly cuts down on damage taken from mobs and players.
btw I also have more mdef in heavy than in robes or light, because both imm and twi defensive sets give +mdef. with wiz harmony it is 12% more mdef than in robes with knights.
I keep my robes just to look pretty in pve, and maybe for oly if I ever do it.
btw here is my justification for heavy on healer: I can use wizard harmony with heavy and have only 8% less pdef with heavy (+19 imm hvy defense) than if I used knights harmony with robes (+16 blessed imm magic robes). With twi hvy +15 it's only 2.5% less pdef than those robes. and the ONLY thing Knights does for healer is +pdef, ALL its other bonuses are useless, or if you use shield maybe it help with that. Now with wiz harmony, healer needs ALL of those bonuses (including mp regen 20%, if you wanna argue about that), but most importantly healer needs -20% reuse, which is vital in pvp for spamming heals as fast as possible, esp group heal. And in heavy I gain 12% mdef and lose only 5.8% cast speed.
and anyway I don't care at all about mp regen or total mp, although I always use my sigil because it improves my pdef. if you are running out of mp before rebirth in any situation you are doing something very wrong.
I liked being one of the few pre-95 healers using heavy regularly. Keep all your robes please everyone, it's the best gear! TYs. :(
I admit also that heavy armors look better than robes on orc mages. Nice try http://grsmile.altervista.org/patpat/patpatbong.gif
Yeah <3 heavy looks. Although I did go healer partially because I don't like how orc mages look as ISS.... now I use heavy and duals sometimes, GF. >.>
Small question, I noted that magic type Twilight robe has full set option with only 4 pieces so what is your comments about wearing 4 Twilight robe pieces and 1 heavy Twilight BP ?
Small question, I noted that magic type Twilight robe has full set option with only 4 pieces so what is your comments about wearing 4 Twilight robe pieces and 1 heavy Twilight BP ?
Im not sure about what you said, did you tested it or you saw it on a item description/internet?
But anyway, whats the advantage of using only 1 heavy piece? :confused:
Small question, I noted that magic type Twilight robe has full set option with only 4 pieces so what is your comments about wearing 4 Twilight robe pieces and 1 heavy Twilight BP ?
tested this and description is incorrect. you need all pieces for the final cast and matk bonus.