Well, yesterday I had a huuuuge conversation about this with a friend, and we couldn't come to an end.
- For the calculations and assumptions below, assume that the "Dark Elf" is fully buffed... Melodies, Sonatas, and Wizard's Harmony. -
Let's suppose I have a +15 Blessed Amaranthine Retributer, no augmentations... Remember that starting at +4 the Retributer will give Magic Attack, Casting Speed and Magic Critical Damage.
If I, a Dark Elf, go for a possible +10INT +7WIT +1MEN(Considering I get two Level 5 Legendary INT and 1 Level 5 Legendary WIT dyes) and a +10% M.Atk acessory, I'd probably get to like 70-80k on that setup(not sure, don't blame me if it's wrong, I don't know the M.Atk formula to be able to calculate). Ok... Nice... But then:
If I actually put it as a +15 Blessed Amaranthine Buster, and not Retributer... Remember that starting at +4, the Buster will give Magic Accuracy and Magic Critical Rate.
With the same dye setup, same item setup and so on, just changing the weapon... Would it actually be more effective than the Retributer?
Take into consideration: After GoD, Magic Critical has been reduced to 2x the damage, not 2.5x anymore, so for the Buster to be effective it would need to give me at least a bit more than HALF of the M.Atk given by the Retributer (However, I can wear a Sigil with Buster, which gives me 5% more M.Atk).
Also, one thing I thought is... If I actually go for the Buster and not the Retributer, I'd actually go for +5INT +11WIT +2MEN, to have a bit more casting speed that would be lost by not going Retributer way.
To make it short:
If the Retributer gives me 80k M.Atk with all that setup, the Buster must give me at least 41k to be worth it for me to pick, however it would be permacrit.
What are the thoughts on this?
I will be into that question till I actually SEE a screenshot of a Dark Elf with Buster and/or Retributer, just for calculation purposes... Even if that Dark Elf doesn't have ALL the setup listed above... If he can just +15 a Blessed Buster/Retributer and post a screenshot of his status screen here, would be nice.
Point of the topic: I don't know which one to choose, one has better M.Atk, but the other one can give me permacrits with the right setup, which just needs basically half of the M.Atk, but I'm not sure a Buster will catch up to Retributer's Magic Attack.
Thanks for reading through it.
The highly OE'ed weapon examples are just for assumptions, but they're the ones I need to check status on.
I love how op is asking for screenshots of +15 weapons, like they are so common just anyone can post one...
I know they are not common, that's why I asked in a public place that might have people with acess to Korea's server maybe, and be able to post a screenshot they might have seen, it's all a matter of luck to find people who can post a screenshot. xD I do understand it's hard though, mainly on blessed weapons.
Im not sure why you would have higer Wit with buster since you can put acumen on it
retributer cant have acumen
so shouldnt it be the other way? retri with wit dye and buister w/o ?
edit: unless ofc the retri +4 equals it out
WIT affects Magic Critical RATE, so if I go Buster for the crit rate, I could put one more WIT symbol and one less INT, to maximize the crit rate... And Retributer gives casting speed starting from +4, Buster does NOT, one more reason to go for +WIT... To make up for the casting speed lost for switching.
buster only has +crit after +4 and the amount it gives is almost as insignificant as most augments.(most not all obviously) Retributer is the winner for feohs, but for wynns and aeores busters might be better as aeore sigil bonus is nice, and wynn can use shield.
I dont think that the M. Crit rate will increase enough to make Buster better then Retributer.
Go for retributer and WIT if you want more Mcrit rate.
But since we are talking about dark elfs, and i'm dark elf, I would go to +INT.
Enchance the strong points. For DD's it usualy works better then trying to balance it.
Why do people post such stupid questions and demand screenshots of people with extremely rare or non-existent gear as if everyone rolls around with that stuff? If they did I'm sure they wouldn't be off posting it to show noobs on forums.
You wanna know the mcrit/mcritdmg/cast speed bonus diff between +4 and +15 weapons? It's 0 cos it's a static amount and doesn't go up with more enchants.
You wanna know the m.atk difference of weapons? reg is +5 m.atk per enchant, blessed +10, +3 and onwards blessed adds 15 per enchant and regular +10, +15 blessed would be 210 m.atk more than +0.
You wanna know the buffed m.atk difference on your toon with each weapon? See your buffed m.atk with your current weapon and multiply it by the m.atk difference of your desired weapon to your current weapon. EG a +0 specter buster has 330 m.atk, +15 blessed 540 m.atk, your buffed matk with be roughly 63% more with a +15 blessed than it will with a +0.
You wanna know the damage difference? Take the difference in m.atk and find the square root. You do 10k dmg with a 330 m.atk weapon, with a 510 m.atk weapon you do sqrt(1.63) more damage, the sqrt of the 63% m.atk, which is 28%.
You wanna know the m.atk difference of weapons? reg is +5 m.atk per enchant, blessed +10, +3 and onwards blessed adds 15 per enchant and regular +10, +15 blessed would be 210 m.atk more than +0.
Why do people post such stupid questions and demand screenshots of people with extremely rare or non-existent gear as if everyone rolls around with that stuff? If they did I'm sure they wouldn't be off posting it to show noobs on forums.
You wanna know the mcrit/mcritdmg/cast speed bonus diff between +4 and +15 weapons? It's 0 cos it's a static amount and doesn't go up with more enchants.
You wanna know the m.atk difference of weapons? reg is +5 m.atk per enchant, blessed +10, +3 and onwards blessed adds 15 per enchant and regular +10, +15 blessed would be 210 m.atk more than +0.
You wanna know the buffed m.atk difference on your toon with each weapon? See your buffed m.atk with your current weapon and multiply it by the m.atk difference of your desired weapon to your current weapon. EG a +0 specter buster has 330 m.atk, +15 blessed 540 m.atk, your buffed matk with be roughly 63% more with a +15 blessed than it will with a +0.
You wanna know the damage difference? Take the difference in m.atk and find the square root. You do 10k dmg with a 330 m.atk weapon, with a 510 m.atk weapon you do sqrt(1.63) more damage, the sqrt of the 63% m.atk, which is 28%.
It is not a stupid question, and I asked for screenshots on a public place, I'm sure somebody around here HAS it or knows somebody who does, and if not, I'm sure somebody here plays Korean server too and is able to get a screenshot somehow.
Actually, I want to know the Magic Attack difference ONCE equipped... Not on the weapons... Because a Magic Critical is 2x the damage, so I must know if the Buster will give at least 51% M.Atk of a same state Retributer, because if it does, it's worth it.
So what I actually asked is... The magic attack of a player with Retributer and then Buster at same state... +15 and blessed, because I'd be able to do a more accurate calculation on that.
Your answer was pretty helpful though, despite the fact you said my question is stupid... Not everyone knows everything about what you said.
Thanks for the help. This thread is actually pretty helpful. Thanks for the support, if anybody actually has more accurate information, even, feel free to post it. :)
It is not a stupid question, and I asked for screenshots on a public place, I'm sure somebody around here HAS it or knows somebody who does, and if not, I'm sure somebody here plays Korean server too and is able to get a screenshot somehow.
Actually, I want to know the Magic Attack difference ONCE equipped... Not on the weapons... Because a Magic Critical is 2x the damage, so I must know if the Buster will give at least 51% M.Atk of a same state Retributer, because if it does, it's worth it.
So what I actually asked is... The magic attack of a player with Retributer and then Buster at same state... +15 and blessed, because I'd be able to do a more accurate calculation on that.
Your answer was pretty helpful though, despite the fact you said my question is stupid... Not everyone knows everything about what you said.
Thanks for the help. This thread is actually pretty helpful. Thanks for the support, if anybody actually has more accurate information, even, feel free to post it. :)
A few people, me included have already explained that there is virtually NO MCRIT BOOST FROM A BUSTER. +4 or +15 all only add 1 point to mcrit, which is a 1/1000 chance to crit, which is completely worthless. You DO NOT get more mcrit for higher ++.
Also I told you the magic damage difference when equipped..... it's the square root of the m.atk difference of the weapon since 20% more m.atk on weapon is roughly 20% more m.atk when equipped. The square root of the m.atk difference gives you the % actual damage difference.
A few people, me included have already explained that there is virtually NO MCRIT BOOST FROM A BUSTER. +4 or +15 all only add 1 point to mcrit, which is a 1/1000 chance to crit, which is completely worthless. You DO NOT get more mcrit for higher ++.
Also I told you the magic damage difference when equipped..... it's the square root of the m.atk difference of the weapon since 20% more m.atk on weapon is roughly 20% more m.atk when equipped. The square root of the m.atk difference gives you the % actual damage difference.
Joke replies again (go figure from the big-bad-retail-pros) end-game you'll probably play mostly olympiad/ceremony of Chaos and in there you're going to want more MP as a Feoh. Which leads to my answer:
Buster, all day, every day.
Acumen+Mana Up is going to for you in oly/ceremony/pvp period. It'll make the lives of your healers a lot easier; it'll make olympiad fights even easier; and your survivability goes up a good chunk? Why would anyone stick with a Retributer at 99? I'll tell you why: because that person is a joke. Even your example of "+15" weapon is a joke, M.atk breakpoints are a joke and are what... 20k, 50k, and then 80k? M.def breakpoints are 3k, 4.8k, and 6k. Retributers will grant you an extra 200 damage per nuke compared to a buster, ooooh ahhhhh big deal. No... not really. 200 extra dmg per nuke/400 per m.crit (600 w/ cov/other prophecies) is nothing.
And please, if you go for the Buster to take my advice on Survivability, please don't be one of those nubs that thinks Sigil>Shield. It's not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be.
There is a much easier way to calculate the difference.
Since all else being equals means everything but the changing variable can be treated as a scalar, then the % difference between weapon a and weapon b is simply:
(sqrt(a+X)-sqrt(b+X))/sqrt(b+X).
where a is the base magic attack of a, b is the base magic attack of b and X is the increased magic attack from the +15 enchantment.
Just to throw some numbers out there suppose a+X=1400 and b+X=1500 then
(sqrt(1500)-sqrt(1400))/sqrt(1400)=3.51%
Clearly this difference becomes very small when a and b are large.
This might mean that for some value of X, the 5% extra magic attack from using a sigel will be greater than the higher base m attack of the two hander but I don't feel like figuring out where that is even if the math is straightforward.