ONe of my biggest complaints since closed beta is that Ncsoft does not know when to leave things alone. Too many times they have created a skill or a class and then gone back and changed it later. This is not a good thing.
Some people Research the characters and skills before ever creating an account then they work hard and play long hours to achieve the goal they want only to have NCSoft Nerf or change the skill which is not fair to your playerbase.
Sure i understand that people complain and that NCsoft is trying to keep players happy, but the only people who complain are people who can not pvp, can not pve or are too stupid to do research on what they want. OOO I cant beat this class therefore its OP My class should be the strongest and people will ALWAYS complain about this .
If you make a class and a skill for that class then Leave it be.. If something is to be changed... Then beef up a class or allow for a better defense. Dont take away things people have worked hard for.
Here is an example : The Feoh Wizards ability to Death Fear un flagged toons, which is a GREAT BOT Killer with death breath. You guys in the Tauti Update nerfed the skill to where it can not be cast on unflagged toons. Which fine I can see why you might do this.. but thats stupid to change something people make the class and work to get the skill..
SO Feoh's can no longer death fear an un chaotic toon, why does a tank have the ability to agitate or agress non flagged toons.. If ur going to get rid of skills that can not be used on toons that are not Chaotic then NO class should have a skill that can be used.. OF course Feoh's did not complain about the death fear it was all the people that fell vitcim of the ability of the feoh to grief.. So then why can a tank walk into the middle of a xp party where the tank is spamming aggression aoe and cast aggression, and make the tank flag and then wipe the party cuase the tank is 10+ higher levels.
If you want to make the game fair and remove one type of skill from a class, then you need to do the same for ALL classes.. and not wait until people cry ***** or moan, In fact your best bet would be to leave the character as you create it and just raise defenses on other characters to compensate instead of nerffing a skill, who cares about who crys OOO thats too powerful a skill thats not fair cause i can not beat it. One class should not prevail over any class, the ability in pvp should be the use of the skills and the right times and being good at pvp, not having a skill that makes it easier for your class to kill another one so to speak.
Building a game that is balanced does not take a rocket scientist to realize how to balance it.
The Pk system is another fine example, Since closed beta you guys as a company has encouraged PK'er as part of the game, and now your system is plain ******ed, if you want to control the pk then take it out of the game completely for real.
This is just my rant, im sure 1,000 people will read this and think that thier reasoning is better.. But If Ncsoft wants a more balanced Game then here are some things to look at.
Daring Sonata : we have tested it and it does not have to be a summoners pet An actual toon can get his hp real low and hit a character and make them go red. and since it is not a a pet you get a full pk count and pk karma, cause it reflect prior to the toon going chaotic.
Tank Agression: A tank should not be able to agro hate an non flagged toon who is in mid swing and cause them to flag
War Tag Kills : if your in war with a clan and you kill someone of the opposing clan who does not flag or trys to run like a scared rabbit, then why on earth would you count that pvp as a pk count in the museum stats. Fix it so its not counted as a pk.
Cryers/Haters : realize that you will never make everyone happy and that people cry when you change thier class or they think thier toon is less powerful than another.. But yet thats the way it is designed. I dont know how many times i have mad a class to play and then u guys change it and it becomes a paper wieght not even worthy of being in the game. Stop that and if people are too stupid to research and learn to pvp correctly then let the blame fall where it goes.. dont mess up the mechanics of the game for that idiocy..
Griefing: If you dont want people greifing then fix it so they cant, Dont say we welcome it and then set the penalty's so high for doing it that no one does it.
The # 1 thing that keeps people here or makes players return is that your pvp system is the best in the market, being open to kill whom ever when ever you want is what makes this game so unique and why it has outlasted many other models. if people dont want an open pvp game then they can go play wow, or aion, DO NOT MAKE THIS GAME AS LAME AS THOSE GAMES. it will be the games death.
I actually agree with a lot of this, however (you had to know there'd be a "however"):
I don't agree with your statement that if they don't fix everything they shouldn't fix anything. Yes, it's unfair when the thing they are fixing changes your toon and leaves others alone. But, sometimes it just takes a little time for them to change them all.
I don't know which MMO you've played, but nerfing or powering up skills has always been a process common to most games.
Until skills and builds are tested by tons of live players and stretched out to their full extent and limits, the devs won't be able to realize if something is useless or too powerful.
A "protected" environment like a QA server can't possibly give all possible results.
Let's take Guild Wars as an example: the developers in ArenaNet are constantly nerfing and adjusting skills to produce a balance between players. Here in Lineage 2, they're trying to balance things (failing to do so, most of the time: do you remember how OP was Steal Divinity, just to take a skill out of tons? :rolleyes: ).
Nc tweaks skills constantly to try and balance classes that's why they do it. Sometimes it's not always in your favor. Like when the SE's debuff's would land 100% then they nerfed it in GoD and I'd be casting 2 or 3 times to get it to land on a mob.
The DEVs seem to care about the new shiny stuff or make something a big deal instead of focusing on the actual content.
It's like with Istina nerf, it took them like 8 months to figure out the raid was "too easy"..how does it take so long to realize something is not working as initialy predicted when thousands are aware of it?
Same for classes. I don't actually know if they are aware of the problem and just wait or if they completly take a blind eye and remember later.
And the same can be said for craft and drop system, it was changed too much in short notice, they said they intend to make bound items have more produtive role on the market (cause right now they're counter productive), and that the adena would be balanced and craft aswell..but when? We dunno...
All these big impact details that are MOCKED is what makes me totaly agree with the OP...the DEVs reaction is either slow or poor or plain bad judgement.
well what a ton of people fail to realize is that they already have a test server so to speak, i mean we don't get updates until MONTHS after the Korean Servers get updates and tweaks, if our DEV's were smart, they would be watching what they do to their servers more closely, and implement changes faster here.. I mean to be honest OUR servers should have a Better track record than Korean cause they make the mistakes and we could fix them. and this game has been in existence for 8 years.. not to mention the 1-3 years it took them to develop to begin with so we shall say 10 years. as a fair assumption, u mean to tell me that after 10 years of working with the same engine, same components, same concept, you would really have as many issues as our Dev's have.. Ummm no. They rely too much on guess work han actual fact work ( thats my opinion) if they really tested they could fix issues before implementing them in game.
Here is another example of how to make people more happy..
There are approximately 8,500+ clans on chronos alone, and 11 actual towns.. Of which some have tons of buildings that are not in use, why dont thay make more permanent clan halls.. Really what ubberness does a clan hall really give a clan... Umm nothing, so why make it so prestigious that so few can have one. Sure they upped the clan halls with the so called provisional clan halls but why did they do something that required much more effort by coding a time for auctions, making it an instance clan hall, when they could have just use buildings already in existance. i code lots of things so where they code a building, it would have been easier to code in a few doors and make it like the actual clan halls. but know they had to do something different.. And it cant be becuase of server space. cause its a virtual world built off of coding that only the client produces graphics the server does not it only generates random code to tell the clients what to manifest to the graphics card. But even if it were space.. the space is already used by being there why not make use of it.. esp since they took out tons of dungeon rooms when they killed the catas and necrops They dont think most of the time on certain aspects and thats the problem in itself. Koreans added over 500 clan halls on each server.. NOT INSTANCED but 100% dedicated clan halls.. ANd there is still tons of land thats not being used that they could make the citis bigger and provide more of a habitat for a clan...
New implementation and here is an idea for developers.. Let Clans build thier own citi's and castles as well, and let people fight for control of those. Just an idea! :) but def add more clan halls.. :)
well what a ton of people fail to realize is that they already have a test server so to speak, i mean we don't get updates until MONTHS after the Korean Servers get updates and tweaks, if our DEV's were smart, they would be watching what they do to their servers more closely, and implement changes faster here.. I mean to be honest OUR servers should have a Better track record than Korean cause they make the mistakes and we could fix them. and this game has been in existence for 8 years.. not to mention the 1-3 years it took them to develop to begin with so we shall say 10 years. as a fair assumption, u mean to tell me that after 10 years of working with the same engine, same components, same concept, you would really have as many issues as our Dev's have.. Ummm no. They rely too much on guess work han actual fact work ( thats my opinion) if they really tested they could fix issues before implementing them in game.
Here is another example of how to make people more happy..
There are approximately 8,500+ clans on chronos alone, and 11 actual towns.. Of which some have tons of buildings that are not in use, why dont thay make more permanent clan halls.. Really what ubberness does a clan hall really give a clan... Umm nothing, so why make it so prestigious that so few can have one. Sure they upped the clan halls with the so called provisional clan halls but why did they do something that required much more effort by coding a time for auctions, making it an instance clan hall, when they could have just use buildings already in existance. i code lots of things so where they code a building, it would have been easier to code in a few doors and make it like the actual clan halls. but know they had to do something different.. And it cant be becuase of server space. cause its a virtual world built off of coding that only the client produces graphics the server does not it only generates random code to tell the clients what to manifest to the graphics card. But even if it were space.. the space is already used by being there why not make use of it.. esp since they took out tons of dungeon rooms when they killed the catas and necrops They dont think most of the time on certain aspects and thats the problem in itself. Koreans added over 500 clan halls on each server.. NOT INSTANCED but 100% dedicated clan halls.. ANd there is still tons of land thats not being used that they could make the citis bigger and provide more of a habitat for a clan...
New implementation and here is an idea for developers.. Let Clans build thier own citi's and castles as well, and let people fight for control of those. Just an idea! :) but def add more clan halls.. :)
I don't think you really understand how much power ncwest has over our version of the game. They pretty much cannot change anything unless it is urgent. You aren't the first person to complain about lack of clan halls, I'd suggest either A) tell your clan to be less poor, or B) join a clan that isn't below the L2 poverty line.
Here is another example of how to make people more happy..
There are approximately 8,500+ clans on chronos alone, and 11 actual towns.. Of which some have tons of buildings that are not in use, why dont thay make more permanent clan halls.. Really what ubberness does a clan hall really give a clan... Umm nothing, so why make it so prestigious that so few can have one. Sure they upped the clan halls with the so called provisional clan halls but why did they do something that required much more effort by coding a time for auctions, making it an instance clan hall, when they could have just use buildings already in existance. i code lots of things so where they code a building, it would have been easier to code in a few doors and make it like the actual clan halls. but know they had to do something different.. And it cant be becuase of server space. cause its a virtual world built off of coding that only the client produces graphics the server does not it only generates random code to tell the clients what to manifest to the graphics card. But even if it were space.. the space is already used by being there why not make use of it.. esp since they took out tons of dungeon rooms when they killed the catas and necrops They dont think most of the time on certain aspects and thats the problem in itself. Koreans added over 500 clan halls on each server.. NOT INSTANCED but 100% dedicated clan halls.. ANd there is still tons of land thats not being used that they could make the citis bigger and provide more of a habitat for a clan...
New implementation and here is an idea for developers.. Let Clans build thier own citi's and castles as well, and let people fight for control of those. Just an idea! :) but def add more clan halls.. :)
Are you attempting to send mixed messages, or was this by accident?
As for your OP. Stop crying about how they changed a skill to work properly. I could care less if you killed a million bots with it. Handling bots should not be a player job, but that of a GM.
Are you attempting to send mixed messages, or was this by accident?There is nothing mixed about those statements, I suggest you go back to school and learn to read. :)
And why because I have to voice my opinion and state a complaint I have mean I'm Crying.. people can make statements and have a rational conversation with out it being called crying.. just sayin.
Dear ShellShock
I don't think you really understand how much power ncwest has over our version of the game. They pretty much cannot change anything unless it is urgent.I actually do know what control they have and don't have. I know NC West only bought the rights to maintain, and distribute the game in NA. However they have more power than they use. They can see problems and see the Koreans fix the problems and instead of being scared little lap dogs, make a voice on what they want change to be on the server they house and operate. Its their choice whether or not items get added that Koreans add or everything would be 100% which it obviously isn't.
B) join a clan that isn't below the L2 poverty line. Who has what money does not matter at this point, because all the halls are taken and NONE come available to bid on, so even if my clan had 10 billion adena in the WH, I cant Bid on something that is simply not there. So think before you speak
Dear Elrohir
I don't agree with your statement that if they don't fix everything they shouldn't fix anything. Yes, it's unfair when the thing they are fixing changes your toon and leaves others alone. But, sometimes it just takes a little time for them to change them all. Honestly if one class does not have a skill that can be used on a toon that is not chaotic ( aka Flagged ) then No toon should have a skill that they can cast on a person who is not chaotic ( aka flagged ) That's what I mean by fix them all, its not that hard to do really..
Dear Yunalesca
Pretty sure it has to do with lazyness + time restraints, the same way kartia was implemented as the biggest lazy(lazy devs) method of solo xp. Laziness I agree is some part of the problem, but there is more to it than that. The Dev's are not in touch with their client base, I am sure Sace makes all kinds of suggestions based of what he reads from the players and I would say Sace is the only Staff member who is in touch with the client base, all his suggestions get rejected with out sometimes a second consideration which is a bigger problem ( yes this is a speculation with no fact aka an opinion)
As far as the solo xp goes, they are not really wanting to promote solo exp at the high levels and my guess is to control dual boxing more because it actually takes playing your class to make a difference now in a party. They want to see people interact more with other people and make party's more beneficial to make pvp at sieges and other situations more enjoyable. Pretty Much the time for the Lone Ranger play style is gone. No more people who play a support class get shoved to the side so a dual box is played vrs a live person. Which is a good thing in most aspects.
Dear Tiferet1
I don't know which MMO you've played, but nerfing or powering up skills has always been a process common to most games. I have actually played a multitude of mmos. Lineage 2, Guild Wars, Hammer, Aion, Terra, WoW, UO, DDO, and more i don't care to list.
And yes nerfing / beefing up, and balancing IS a part of them all, however, on all the other games if there is a change implemented, the DEV's are on top of it and if it needs changed it gets changed in hours, days maybe a week to 2 at most.. Not MONTHS down the road, Lineage 2 for the most part I thinks writes a list of changes they want to make and then implement it only during expansion updates which comes once every 6-10 months, that's laziness!! Why should the player base have to suffer months for a fix.. ??
Soul shots were a direct example, whoops the event screwed up the server coding cause there was a mistake in its design or coding, and instead of taking the event out and returning things to normal they allowed the event to continue to run and effect the player base with no real concern, sure they said sorry, and we are working hard on it, but if it was working before the event, quick fix, remove the event, fix the event and re - apply a week later or how ever long is needed. and frankly their compensation for the event was an insult, when you decide to do an upgrade on your vehicle, the only one you have that gets you to work and makes you money, and your enhancement does not work and it screws up your transportation, you don't drive it as is and screw it up worse, you take off the enhancement until you get all the parts you need and then put it back on right.. see my point?
Dear Yunalesca
It's like with Istina nerf, it took them like 8 months to figure out the raid was "too easy"..how does it take so long to realize something is not working as initialy predicted when thousands are aware of it?
Same for classes. I don't actually know if they are aware of the problem and just wait or if they completely take a blind eye and remember later.This is the laziness I refer here with this the paragraphs above, they have the means to fix it but choose to not do so until they do several changes at once. its like they are afraid to do their jobs. Why should they they get a paycheck now so why would they actually have to work now and earn it.. lol..
The Dev's should Police and GM the server as well, and interact with the playerbase more frequently, not announced so they get bombarded in Fantasy Isle but on a more regular basis Make toons to level and play along side the players to see how the clans are functioning, see what legit complaints are and what crys are, and be active for people to contact. back in the beginning, GMS were present, bots not so much people were too scared cause the GM's where here we saw them, interacted with them, they created fun games in different towns that people would do to break the every day grind and make game play more excitable, and they helped players learn something about the game, Now if some one learns a trick to the game that was intended, they scream exploit, exploit, cause I'm too stupid to understand how it works.. REMOVE IT! just saying it don't have to be like that... It all boils down to being more in touch and ACTIVE with your player base. which since c3 that is the biggest thing this game has lacked!
I have actually played a multitude of mmos. Lineage 2, Guild Wars, Hammer, Aion, Terra, WoW, UO, DDO, and more i don't care to list.
And yes nerfing / beefing up, and balancing IS a part of them all, however, on all the other games if there is a change implemented, the DEV's are on top of it and if it needs changed it gets changed in hours, days maybe a week to 2 at most.. Not MONTHS down the road, Lineage 2 for the most part I thinks writes a list of changes they want to make and then implement it only during expansion updates which comes once every 6-10 months, that's laziness!! Why should the player base have to suffer months for a fix.. ??
You seem to ignore the fact that NCWest doesn't have developers, exclusive to NCKorea only. And in Korea they get regular patches, that are sent in "unified blocks" to NCWest, hence the big patches once in a lifetime. The only exception are the urgent patches required for urgent fixes, like the geodata bug on the servers or the frequent crashes.
There is nothing mixed about those statements, I suggest you go back to school and learn to read. :)
And why because I have to voice my opinion and state a complaint I have mean I'm Crying.. people can make statements and have a rational conversation with out it being called crying.. just sayin.
So adding more clan halls, while they, as you say "add, ummm, nothing" is just a good suggestion?
Are clan halls needed? If they add "ummm nothing"?
Why would you want more clan halls if they dont add nothing?
How can you not see how you are sending mixed messages?