They did make Necromancer/Soultaker which was actually a balanced mage class.
They just suck at making everything else.
Consolidating the classes was a bad choice, IMO, since it forced you to go from a decent to really good class to a mediocre one.
And by mediocre I'm talking beyond pwning peeps with high damage nukes. There should be a level of enjoyment out of playing your character and with Feoh there is little to none, IMO. The class is too monotanous, repetitive, and tunnel-vision for my tastes.
So now that the game has had GoD update for some time now, I think the old players can give a good opinion about the radical changes that were made.
I agree that consolidation of classes was a bad idea. For 1 thing it makes the game terribly boring just by not having some real variety to people. For thing 2 several of the new classes really are much more limited and boring than the pre-awakened classes they spring from, especially tank warrior and nuker. We have a nuker and we agree that it's boring as heck all around. I've played a friends' tank and it also seems very boring to me; several of the skills look to be useless and the job can be done most times just by spamming aoe hate; boring support class = ppl won't play it, which is why we lack them probably; they can be strong but in general imo they are meh. Ppl are also saying 2/3 of warrior skills are useless... I haven't played warrior nor did I awaken to one as was the destined path, because I didn't want to be just another random dd (of which there are way too many, as usual), and I am glad I didn't.
Changes that were good: consolidating BD and SWS, and 7 ppl parties.
Changes that are bad: consolidating all other classes, lack of anything really special about most new classes, and damage nerf lower lvl to higher lvl.
BD = SWS is a great change because before, trying to get both into every single real party was a huge nightmare. I made sws alt to lvl 82 just for use at clan events. Also imo the ISS greatly improves on bd, sws, and prophet because it has a lot of diverse and interesting skills, it can do a lot more than any of the pre-awakened classes it comes from. Only real lack I see is no gate chant.
7 ppl parties is good because it makes getting a party together easier, which I am grateful for.
I miss my Doombringer a lot, it had tons of cool, unique, and useful skills and was an outstanding dd. Warriors start out weak and stay meh till high level, only real advantage is they can use a pole for efficient aoe xp. Being unique is a personal thing I guess, but being just another dime-a-dozen warrior is boring as heck imo and I want no part of it. I've taken on a completely different function as a healer, but at least I am wanted.
Healer is fine, it has more skills than I can really fit on the 4 bars, and it is strong. Archer is strong. Summoner is OP and needs nerf. (FOUR summons, really? ugh)
Only real risk of having unique classes again is that ppl will figure out which specific one is the best for it's function and shun all the other types. Which was no fun. But at least it wasn't as flat out boring as it is now. But game is atm only about grind and getting higher level. Being and fighting a large array of classes was interesting and fun. It's somewhat less fun now with so few classes. Also it wasn't bad to have 40+ heroes, at least more ppl got to be hero. But the game could also do without heroes, because 95% of the time they just annoy everyone and remind the average player they got there by cheating, and being plowed by them is no fun. If there is no chance to kill someone, it's not fun at all, which is why oly is such a drag to do for most ppl.
Which brings me to the last complaint, that the damage nerf from lower levels to higher levels / damage take by lower levels from higher levels is way too extreme atm. It would be better for the player base in general if an awakened 85 still had some use vs. lvl 99. You might say that those who get 99 deserve the power, but it is the botters/cheaters get to 99 first and then control the important xp spots, AND they will race to the top ANYWAY even if there wasn't any damage nerf from lower levels, just for the little advantage it might give, so having damage nerfs only hurts most of the server and helps very few. Sure lvl 85 can do nothing to me, but I still am killed in seconds by lvl 99; it is no fun either way. No fun = ppl quit game. Now, it would be great fun if lvl 99 still had something to fear from lvl 85 ! That would make a much more balanced pvp game in general.
Most ppl I party with in clan are 93-95. If we see hero / lvl 99 party coming we have no choice but to PR because staying to fight them is stupid since we have no chance to kill them. BORING... for both parties. And also eventually most average/casual/legit players are going to reach a point they realize the same thing, that they can do nothing vs. top levels and they will quit because there is no point to try to kill them at all, and the grind is still too long to put up with atm for many. IF you could have some chance to kill top level no matter what level you are 85+, game would be much more fun and grind less important or at least not such a drag, because game is pretty boring atm unless you can always find equal levels to fight, which is NOT realistic.
They did make Necromancer/Soultaker which was actually a balanced mage class.
What? Necro was a horribly unbalanced class. Lots of useful debuffs? Transfer pain? Full power nuke?
Long post
Tank, Healer, and Enchanter are exactly what the classes are supposed to be. If you don't like your class dictating how you play, don't play one of those.
Nuker, Archer, and Dagger are pretty much the same as they have been, no outrageous differences from the classes merged into them. Archer got a nice aoe boost though.
Summoner, so few people know how to properly play one I won't even comment.
I do agree that Warriors got shafted because the classes that got merged into that archetype really quite diverse.
they got there by cheating
I never had to cheat to get hero. Point disproven.
Which brings me to the last complaint, that the damage nerf from lower levels to higher levels / damage take by lower levels from higher levels is way too extreme atm. It would be better for the player base in general if an awakened 85 still had some use vs. lvl 99. You might say that those who get 99 deserve the power, but it is the botters/cheaters get to 99 first and then control the important xp spots, AND they will race to the top ANYWAY even if there wasn't any damage nerf from lower levels, just for the little advantage it might give, so having damage nerfs only hurts most of the server and helps very few. Sure lvl 85 can do nothing to me, but I still am killed in seconds by lvl 99; it is no fun either way. No fun = ppl quit game. Now, it would be great fun if lvl 99 still had something to fear from lvl 85 ! That would make a much more balanced pvp game in general.
Most ppl I party with in clan are 93-95. If we see hero / lvl 99 party coming we have no choice but to PR because staying to fight them is stupid since we have no chance to kill them. BORING... for both parties. And also eventually most average/casual/legit players are going to reach a point they realize the same thing, that they can do nothing vs. top levels and they will quit because there is no point to try to kill them at all, and the grind is still too long to put up with atm for many. IF you could have some chance to kill top level no matter what level you are 85+, game would be much more fun and grind less important or at least not such a drag, because game is pretty boring atm unless you can always find equal levels to fight, which is NOT realistic.
The amount of time I took to get 99 I **** (really that's censored?) well better hit people lower level than me a lot harder than they hit me. I look at it as the people who botted to get to 99 so they can start to pvp for once are gonna get bored actually sitting at their PC cuz there's hardly anyone close to their level to pvp. Then they fight a group that's equal level, but they have no idea how to pvp cuz they've been afk for 14 levels and their pvp scripts are trumped by people who know what they're doing with their toons and they lose and rage and log out.
I have to agree with the OP on a couple different points.
1. Consolidating classes gave people less chance of getting heroes, less diversity, more monotonous. It seems like after an update we would get "more" choices if any... Not just different ones, and less... At least they kept the diversity by allowing races to have different passives.
2. I was also disappointed in the major gap between a lvl 84 and lvl 85. Instead of the difference between a grade and b grade, it seems like it's more of a difference between no grade and s80. This doesn't bother me as much, but as the OP says, this really creates such a large gap between the awakened and non-awakened toons it limits interaction severely (which isn't being fixed by the mentor/mentee system.)
Not that there should-not be a gap... i just don't think it needs to be so vast a gap.
3. Healers are fun as hell now, yea... that's about it.
What? Necro was a horribly unbalanced class. Lots of useful debuffs? Transfer pain? Full power nuke?
Yes it was a balanced class. Read the statement right after that first statement, which you failed to quote. Also note that that sentence you quoted was modified and specific. It was actually a balanced mage class. The rest weren't really balanced. Game and mechanics changes put them out of balance and the only way to really compete well on them was to overpower yourself with gear and levels.
Necros were different in that their toolset allowed them to compete "decently" even if the odds were somewhat stacked against them. Yes, that had a lot to do with the old debuff/landrate mechanics.
But they weren't really OP. Lots of people simply didn't know how to play against them since they were used to spamming imba skills up front instead of waiting for the Necro to cast one of the longest cast-time debuffs in the game and interrupting it.
Necros weren't 1 shotting people like Archers were. They weren't plowing people like Echo/Enlightenment/Slugging StSc, and they certainly weren't mowing you down like full-buffed +5 WIT DC Robe Cancel-spamming Mystic Muses. There was a lot that was OP back then. Anchor wasn't one. It could be easily cured and like any other immobilizing debuff it was only really super threatening in 1v1, which really doesn't matter outside of Olympiad.
I have to agree with the OP on a couple different points.
1. Consolidating classes gave people less chance of getting heroes, less diversity, more monotonous. It seems like after an update we would get "more" choices if any... Not just different ones, and less... At least they kept the diversity by allowing races to have different passives.
That's not diversity. All it does it encourage cookie cutter builds, like people rerolling their Human/Light Elf/Kamael Feohs to Dark Elves for the Passives and Stats.
with regards of the ISS class the simple fact you can use several weapon types but ONLY have dual sword/blunt mastery blows.. also merging melee style classes with mystic was a bit lol..
tank class has improved a lot but lacks a bit on diversity..
can't really comment on the rest as I haven't played those myself
Tho i have to say that i don't find it unfair how a 99er can wipe a few or maybe a whole party of 85/86ers.
Pre-God a lvl 85 Char with OE skills could wipe a party of pre lvl 80's or even a party full with lvl 80's if he had good gear. I don't see here any difference.
What i don't like is Tanks with their like 0 reuse but 100% landrate Hate-Aura in pvp and having 95+ Healers in Hvy Armor.
It is close to impossible to kill suchs healers now. In open field and ofc in Oly (tho we had that too pre-GoD at Oly, so i don't see it that horrible there).
I also must say that i don't enjoy my Tyrr as much as i did pre-God while being Duelist. It was a other playstyle. I also don't like the "new" playstyle of Gladi/Duelist with the change of the Momentum use. Before God way more brain was needed to time the charges + skill spams.
Nowadays a Tyrr is close to useless if you don't have a good Pole + 2h sword focus for pve + Duals with HP for pvp + Bow for some raids.
As for pvp as Tyrr, well so far i see myself in many cases like the old DN in mass pvp, Stun, Stun, Stun...
I miss it to get into in the front line, useing Sonic Buster, Blaster, Storm etc. But i play this Class over 5 years, with the ups and downs and i will go on, since i am a Duelist inside... The time of Tyrr being OP (and later nerfed again) will come and go and i will deal with it.
That's not diversity. All it does it encourage cookie cutter builds, like people rerolling their Human/Light Elf/Kamael Feohs to Dark Elves for the Passives and Stats.
Just saying at least they kept that different, it could have been worse... Imagine same passives for everyone, no matter what race.... That would be even more limited... But I see what you are saying of course.
Yul has more skills now than before, it got many new unique things from Trickster such as warp and traps. SR imo was hella boring back in the day as were all plain archers; it is improved at awakening but in general, gameplay is just spam surrender to arrow debuff and 3-4 skills over and over. Which is I guess is the life of any DD.
Anyway I think ppl who get bored with their DD classes should consider healer, by far it has the most variety of gameplay either pve or pvp of any class. You can just stand there and do nothing when things go well, or have to start spam a ton of different things when crap hits the fan, and always need to watch carefully and have fast reflexes or ppl die and party wipe.
Yes it was a balanced class. Read the statement right after that first statement, which you failed to quote. Also note that that sentence you quoted was modified and specific. It was actually a balanced mage class. The rest weren't really balanced. Game and mechanics changes put them out of balance and the only way to really compete well on them was to overpower yourself with gear and levels.
Necros were different in that their toolset allowed them to compete "decently" even if the odds were somewhat stacked against them. Yes, that had a lot to do with the old debuff/landrate mechanics.
But they weren't really OP. Lots of people simply didn't know how to play against them since they were used to spamming imba skills up front instead of waiting for the Necro to cast one of the longest cast-time debuffs in the game and interrupting it.
Necros weren't 1 shotting people like Archers were. They weren't plowing people like Echo/Enlightenment/Slugging StSc, and they certainly weren't mowing you down like full-buffed +5 WIT DC Robe Cancel-spamming Mystic Muses. There was a lot that was OP back then. Anchor wasn't one. It could be easily cured and like any other immobilizing debuff it was only really super threatening in 1v1, which really doesn't matter outside of Olympiad.
SAY WHAT ???
I once saw a Necro (Kwanzabot ?) take out 12 enemies SOLO and laughing about it in allychat and on Vent.. balance my a..
i agree, at 90+ even 3 lvls totally kill the fun in pvp, 91 vs 94? no chance!
this game switched from gear based to lvl based, lvl 96 in immortal +0 120 element will never lose to lvl 92 in twilight +6 120 element...
and i hate cookie butter builds too,
wanna do the healer? elf!
feoh/yul/othell? dark elf!
tyrr/sigel/iss? orc!
pre god there was balance between races because of skills (ghost hunter hit like a truck but wind rider had more land rates, etc...).
now that all skills are the same, a new player just have to look the str/int... and the racial stats one time and being "forced" to chose a race.
and the tyrr... omg they removed all the variety of warriors by doing a "dreadnought that spam skills like a duelist (fail normal attack dmg) with tyrant's totems" bb to doombringer and titan
and please, fix asap those tanks wannabe, can't stand healer and wynns with heavy, atm only 2 classes uses light and only 1 uses robe (except some iss and wynn that didn't have money for heavy and took light)
Sleep. Nuke, Sleep. Nuke, Sleep. Yeah mage's were totally balanced...
But really. The OP didn't even claim what chronicle she was talking about, and you guys are going to argue whether necro was or was not OP? lolololol
Most classes at some point in time were OP through the last 7years, but in H5 the game was realitivly balanced, necros and all
Pretty sure I said those other mage classes WEREN'T balanced.
Are you really that bad at reading and comprehending what others stated?
Necro wasn't OP. Purify was a B Grade skill even your Boxed SE had it. Stack Dark Resist buffs and the necro was hitting for 4-600 damage. It wasn't that hard to win unless you were bad, badly buffed, or thought the game was balanced around 1v1 PvP which it never way. Why do you think Olympiad is such a mess?
I once saw a Necro (Kwanzabot ?) take out 12 enemies SOLO and laughing about it in allychat and on Vent.. balance my a..
Cause they were bad? If all those 12 people attacked the Necro once (let's say 11, assuming he Anchored one but why would a Necro run up to 400 range to Anchor 1/12 people unless they were bluebies...) with a skill/nuke/attack then transfer pain was off cause it would demolish his Pet HP (and the necro would have no CP and be at 3/4th HP by then if not less). A Necro without TP even if it Anchored one person (assuming skill mastery didn't proc, cause the reuse was quite long) should not have been able to kill 11-12 people of even similar level range even if their gear was noticeably worse, unless they were mostly AFK or got Bubbled (Gahenna/Day of Doom).
Any nuker can run up to some players and Bubble them from beside a pillar and win. There's nothing new about that.
Say What?
And of course if Kwanzabot says he killed 12 people Kwanzabot must be telling the truth. Maybe the power of CP/QHP was strong within him, but 11 people will have no issues killing a Necro since that class has almost no defense outside of drains if his pet dies or goes too low HP. Any attack > pet hp level skips transfer pain. It was not hard to kill a Necro if you had a clue. Hit the pet some, then hard switch to the Necro. Transfer pain lasts like 10 seconds or less against a skilled opponent.
Which brings me to the last complaint, that the damage nerf from lower levels to higher levels / damage take by lower levels from higher levels is way too extreme atm. It would be better for the player base in general if an awakened 85 still had some use vs. lvl 99. You might say that those who get 99 deserve the power, but it is the botters/cheaters get to 99 first and then control the important xp spots, AND they will race to the top ANYWAY even if there wasn't any damage nerf from lower levels, just for the little advantage it might give, so having damage nerfs only hurts most of the server and helps very few. Sure lvl 85 can do nothing to me, but I still am killed in seconds by lvl 99; it is no fun either way. No fun = ppl quit game. Now, it would be great fun if lvl 99 still had something to fear from lvl 85 ! That would make a much more balanced pvp game in general.
I'm not against anyone having skills or more power at higher levels, but the truth is, there should be a lot less people running around at high levels than there are now. There should be even less of them in the same clan, and to be honest, this is where the failure of Lineage 2 has been from update to update. I was hopeful that with the consolidation of the classes that the company was going the route of a reboot of the game and that they may take the time to address this unbalancing issue, but unfortunately that hasn't happened. You would see an increase in playability if GM's would keep the high level players honest:
1. More scrutiny of top clans at sieges
2. More investigations of unrealistic item acquisitions
3. More of a presence at higher XP hunting grounds
You fix this and the fun factor of the game will increase as you'll be playing against humans again instead of cyborgs. As in life, there will always be some people that rise to the top, but it won't be the groups of players you have to walk through now and the damaged difference won't be as glaringly overpowered.
Pretty sure I said those other mage classes WEREN'T balanced.
Are you really that bad at reading and comprehending what others stated?
Necro wasn't OP. Purify was a B Grade skill even your Boxed SE had it. Stack Dark Resist buffs and the necro was hitting for 4-600 damage. It wasn't that hard to win unless you were bad, badly buffed, or thought the game was balanced around 1v1 PvP which it never way. Why do you think Olympiad is such a mess?
You missed the point, but I can help you. I was being sarcastic, talking about ~c2 when nukers spammed sleep and then nuked you, slept and nuked you repeatedly. Maybe you missed that. You are probably new to this game, I understand that comment probably went over your head.
So I ask you the same question, are you bad at reading and comprehending what others stated?
I never said necro WAS or WASNT OP. I laughed that you guys are going to argue about it, when AS I stated, it hasent even been declared what chronicle your talking about. You want to argue that necros are strong or are not strong? Pick a chronicle, but you cant just say nercros are or are not OP .At some point, they were...Things change. We'll, most of them, one thing remains, you're an idiot :D
PS: Necro Wasnt OP last update, your right, however nor was any nuker. They all spammed fear and killed u while u ran into a wall. Whats there to argue about? State a chronicle, and i'll educate you some more.
1 - Awakened classes, I have nothing against them, but they made a broken game until level 85: PPs are useless because they do 0 dmg, even Bladedancers-SpS are being ignored until 85 because everyone has a boxed Iss and can solo pretty well in TOI, cleaning rooms alone. If they wanted to balance the game, it'd be better to delete all previous classes and we could start playing as an awaken class since level 1, because it's better to balance the game since the beginning instead of only for 85+ characters, but letting the game broken at 1-85 levels.
2 - Dual box, it could be solved if dev team made a group-based game, instead of a buff-based, they should have made a group-based game, where all these new classes could be played since level 1, and also turning Iss Enchanter in a debuffer/DD/nuker hybrid(something like the soulhound), deleting its buffs(the lack of these buffs would be supplied reformulating the stats of all weapons/armors). So, an Iss would be welcome in a party due to its debuffs-crowd control instead of its buffs every 30/5 minutes. So there wouldn't be reason to box an Iss, because only an active Iss can perform its debuffs-crowd control, it would solve the dual box problem because you wouldn't need a boxed one for solo-small groups, but you must have one active ISS for full pvp-pve parties. And of course, an Iss would't need a boxed DD because it is a mix of DD-nuker-debuffer.
3 - I'd add some kind of talent-skill tree, it would be nice to have variations among players of a same class, along with these new classes, an talent-skill tree would bring a lot of variations because its sad to see that L2 is the only MMO I play nowadays where all classes have the same skills-stats, while other games bring creative talent-skill-trees as well as some of them you also gain stat-points to distibute where you want(STR, DEX, CON,..) each level. GW2 has one of the most exciting skill planner I've seen so far, it reminds me Diablo 3 a bit, but it is much more complex than D3 skill planner.
3. Sounds like World of Warcraft. This is not WoW. Lets keep it L2.
It comes from games like Lineage 1 and Ultima Online. Interesting to se how L1 is richer than L2 in these terms. In L1 you gain stat-points to distribute where you want and you have liberty to configure your set of skills. In L2 everything is the same. Everybody complains about these 8 classes because L2 got poorer, but if you talk about a skill tree that could bring richness to the game, complain because it sounds like WoW?
What's matter with WoW? The new talent tree that will come with the next update is very interesting, the best talents-specializations I've seen in WoW so far, each class has 3 specializations(knowing that druid will have 4) so 11 classes = 34 different specs, and each class has 6 tiers of talents, each tier has 3 talents, the number of different combinations, if you consider these 18 talents + 3/4 specs per class is monstrous. Too far from these poor 8 L2 classes where everybody has the same skills.
Richness is what makes L1 crush L2 in terms of player base in east, without being a buff-dependent MMO like L2.
Less ppl asking "what is the best tank class/warrior class/blah blah blah class?" now than before.
L2 class balance was a mess with 32 classes. Now they actually have a chance to balance stuff.
You want l2 to have skills for picking flowers next too?
Herbalism is a profession skill, regardless your class, you can learn this profession if you want to be an alchemist, and use these herbs to craft very useful potions in order to make money selling them.
I'm saying that (about starting an awakening class since level 1 instead of 85, and fix the dual box by changing the Iss playstyle...), it'd be cool if each class(beyond the basic skills that they need to learn as we are used to do) had some special skills that you need to choose. In Aion, for example, we have the stigmas, each class, besides their regular skills, has 8 slots where you can choose among a set of special skills, eight of them will fill out these 8 slots, it brings several builds per class depending on what set of stigmas you choose. In GW2 we have 5 slots for special skills that you need to choose too. So it could bring more richness to L2 without screwing the balance, because you will continue learning your normal skills as you are used to do currently, but you will also have to choose among special skills every gap of levels(every 10 levels, for example, one special slot would be unlocked, and you just need to choose a special skill).
Herbalism is a profession skill, regardless your class, you can learn this profession if you want to be an alchemist, and use these herbs to craft very useful potions in order to make money selling them.
I'm saying that (about starting an awakening class since level 1 instead of 85, and fix the dual box by changing the Iss playstyle...), it'd be cool if each class(beyond the basic skills that they need to learn as we are used to do) had some special skills that you need to choose. In Aion, for example, we have the stigmas, each class, besides their regular skills, has 8 slots where you can choose among a set of special skills, eight of them will fill out these 8 slots, it brings several builds per class depending on what set of stigmas you choose. In GW2 we have 5 slots for special skills that you need to choose too. So it could bring more richness to L2 without screwing the balance, because you will continue learning your normal skills as you are used to do currently, but you will also have to choose among special skills every gap of levels(every 10 levels, for example, one special slot would be unlocked, and you just need to choose a special skill).
There have been similar suggestions to yours and NcSoft has no desire to change the game in this way.
As far as buffs and dual boxing goes, I do not see a problem with this at all. A boxed ISS cannot be played as well as a live player and are now more than just buffers. (I can box an Iss better than some live players so there are exceptions since some people suck.)
I would like to see ISS get more debuffs and a bigger role in party play than just spam 2 skills and occassionally mass root and the 2 seals and buffing every 6/29 minutes and assist heals.
Herbalism is a profession skill, regardless your class, you can learn this profession if you want to be an alchemist, and use these herbs to craft very useful potions in order to make money selling them.
I'm saying that (about starting an awakening class since level 1 instead of 85, and fix the dual box by changing the Iss playstyle...), it'd be cool if each class(beyond the basic skills that they need to learn as we are used to do) had some special skills that you need to choose. In Aion, for example, we have the stigmas, each class, besides their regular skills, has 8 slots where you can choose among a set of special skills, eight of them will fill out these 8 slots, it brings several builds per class depending on what set of stigmas you choose. In GW2 we have 5 slots for special skills that you need to choose too. So it could bring more richness to L2 without screwing the balance, because you will continue learning your normal skills as you are used to do currently, but you will also have to choose among special skills every gap of levels(every 10 levels, for example, one special slot would be unlocked, and you just need to choose a special skill).
You seem intent on chaning L2 to be more like other games you like playing.
I would like to see ISS get more debuffs and a bigger role in party play than just spam 2 skills and occassionally mass root and the 2 seals and buffing every 6/29 minutes and assist heals.
I can't agree with this. They don't use 2 skills, they use 5 skills, 3 single target dmg and 2 AOE dmg. That's more than a tyrr warrior uses each 10 seconds(individual skills). And they gotta keep healing up aswell and res on siege battlefield.
BUT they should have less re-use on their AOE debuffs.
You seem intent on chaning L2 to be more like other games you like playing.
Maybe you could just play those instead?
L2 is already a poorer version of Aion, because these awakening classes remind Aion classes, the only differences between Aion classes and L2 awakening classes are:
1 - In Aion there are several builds per class via Stigmas, in L2 everything is the same.
2 - In Aion you don't need a boxed Enchanter for solo or small groups, and of course, you don't need to pay for buffs if you don't have one, in l2 if you don't have a boxed Iss, you will pay for buffs every 30 minutes, but if the sonatas are not enchanted for time, you hill have problem because without sonatas you won't be efficient even for solo.
L2 is already a poorer version of Aion, because these awakening classes remind Aion classes, the only differences between Aion classes and L2 awakening classes are:
1 - In Aion there are several builds per class via Stigmas, in L2 everything is the same.
2 - In Aion you don't need a boxed Enchanter for solo or small groups, and of course, you don't need to pay for buffs if you don't have one, in l2 if you don't have a boxed Iss, you will pay for buffs every 30 minutes, but if the sonatas are not enchanted for time, you hill have problem because without sonatas you won't be efficient even for solo.
1 - I play Aion, WoW as well as I intend to play GW2, and many other games.
2 - Interesting, "go play <insert the name of an MMO>" is the usual answer of a L2 player when someone talks about how L2 could be improved in terms of classes-skills-gameplay. And because of this, the players are actually going to other games. Aion is the second most played MMO in Korea(and east in general) behind Blade&Soul in 1st, the evasion of players from L2 there(in 2009-2010, I remember, when NC showed financial results, some images of a lecture with graphics, Aion was in first, L1 in second and in terms of profits, L1 was almost twice as L2). After that, it seems L2 devs realized that those 35 classes didn't work anymore and they decided to copy Aion classes, the current situation of L2 is better than in 2009, but L2 is still behind L1(the 50 L1 servers against 30 L2 servers in korea still show that L1 still is almost twice as L2 in terms of profits).
It's sad that a game made in 1998 is richer than L2(I'd say, the freedom you have to build your character in L1 is very amusing, as an old L1 player, I liked that in L1).
This game is badly designed for CPS Korean players.
Deal with it.
It's the way it is, and it's the way it's always going to be.
Talent Trees are not exclusive to WoW. EQ had the AA system, and EQ2 has an AA System that functions much like WoW Talent Trees. It allows the same class to function in wholly different ways, and makes it more interesting. If you get bored, respec and have fun, etc.
Not sure why you're wasting your time replying to him. He has over 10k posts for you to skim and see how far that will get you. Or you can just ignore him and move on smartly.
I'm not against anyone having skills or more power at higher levels, but the truth is, there should be a lot less people running around at high levels than there are now. There should be even less of them in the same clan, and to be honest, this is where the failure of Lineage 2 has been from update to update. I was hopeful that with the consolidation of the classes that the company was going the route of a reboot of the game and that they may take the time to address this unbalancing issue, but unfortunately that hasn't happened. You would see an increase in playability if GM's would keep the high level players honest:
1. More scrutiny of top clans at sieges
2. More investigations of unrealistic item acquisitions
3. More of a presence at higher XP hunting grounds
You fix this and the fun factor of the game will increase as you'll be playing against humans again instead of cyborgs. As in life, there will always be some people that rise to the top, but it won't be the groups of players you have to walk through now and the damaged difference won't be as glaringly overpowered.
WWW
Sigh another crypost.
Ok so there are those that cheat and it is very obvious from battle duration who they are but they are currently the minority as EG has only been a viable bot spot since tauti launched. Prior to that there were no uncontended high level xp spots.
Let me explain how I and my party got 99.
1) 150 USD per month in NCoin items per char
2) 4 hours a day of hunting every day for 8 months
3) LOL xp events that gave us stuff like perma vit or weeks of follow the dragon.
I am on not on any battle duration list, I have no super high rss usage and I am typically in the top 8 for all the major raid rankings.
I and my party are the poster children for success at L2. Semi casual play, good NCoin usage, winning heroes / deomlishing everyone at pvp.
I and people like me who by the way do tend to congregate into clans will always be better then most of you due to our commitment and tenacity.
Pro tip: the way to 99 is not marathon runs it is short consistent grind using as much of the available ncoin resources available. Everyone in my group is in their late 20's early 30's and we just don't have the time to play 10+h a day. We all have jobs and frankly I spend more on coffee in a month then I do maxing vit items out of the ncstore.
Finally, just cause you are 99 does not mean you are instantly OP. My char has gear/augs and oe's that let me crush my enemies, none of which was handed to me when I dinged. I have 27 skills +10, go ask anyone who has taken a skill to 10 how much that costs. Being the top of your class when it comes to farming raids and always having vit/maphrs runes for bonus drop has a fairly profound effect on your wallet long term.
In short, we win. the mediocres need not try to compare, just do yourself a favor and try and emulate as our track record is now proven.
It's not near as much fun as bishop used to be. I do see how se's and ee's would have more fun on the new healer though.
Healer is fine, you just got used to godmode in heavy.
There is a definite reason to level a healer past 97, the oe's you get on party cleanse/normal cleanse for +10% hp heal are pretty epic. Sure lakis disk is a joke but look at deathgate or infinity strike.
Let's be real here seller, in a real pvp group in H5 the cardi used two skills: cleanse and balance. The two rechargers were the ones doing spot heals and keeping the bp alive while he ran around.
Ok so there are those that cheat and it is very obvious from battle duration who they are but they are currently the minority as EG has only been a viable bot spot since tauti launched. Prior to that there were no uncontended high level xp spots.
Let me explain how I and my party got 99.
1) 150 USD per month in NCoin items per char
2) 4 hours a day of hunting every day for 8 months
3) LOL xp events that gave us stuff like perma vit or weeks of follow the dragon.
I am on not on any battle duration list, I have no super high rss usage and I am typically in the top 8 for all the major raid rankings.
I and my party are the poster children for success at L2. Semi casual play, good NCoin usage, winning heroes / deomlishing everyone at pvp.
I and people like me who by the way do tend to congregate into clans will always be better then most of you due to our commitment and tenacity.
Pro tip: the way to 99 is not marathon runs it is short consistent grind using as much of the available ncoin resources available. Everyone in my group is in their late 20's early 30's and we just don't have the time to play 10+h a day. We all have jobs and frankly I spend more on coffee in a month then I do maxing vit items out of the ncstore.
Finally, just cause you are 99 does not mean you are instantly OP. My char has gear/augs and oe's that let me crush my enemies, none of which was handed to me when I dinged. I have 27 skills +10, go ask anyone who has taken a skill to 10 how much that costs. Being the top of your class when it comes to farming raids and always having vit/maphrs runes for bonus drop has a fairly profound effect on your wallet long term.
In short, we win. the mediocres need not try to compare, just do yourself a favor and try and emulate as our track record is now proven.
$150 a month - wow. I have the means to do that, but not the will. But I gave up on being competitive a long time ago.
Everyone knows you DIEGO VARGAS, everyone knows who you are, everyone knows your crew, everyone know what you are about...
But you didn't seem to get what this IS about.
If you weren't so vocal about your innocence, maybe you would be A lot more believable.
My suggestions are designed to catch a CHEATER!!! The only people it would affect would be cheaters.
So if you and yours are so squeaky...what's the big deal?
WWW
Vocal? Like making a single post in an authoritative and articulate manner? Listen here, my comments are essentially from the top of the hill looking down. I figured this thread needed at least one opinion from those that have succeeded at L2.
Do what we did, buy the nccoin and given a consistent party/schedule you can be 99 as well in 8 months.
Level damage nurf was always there, just not as obvious. When the servers were in D grade and someone in C showed up, they were epic. When you were in A grade (lets say level 72) and had some archer (lets say, 77) in drac with 60 ele per piece and a 150 bow come after you there was not a whole lot you could do either. Same thing came when you were level 76 in Drac and had someone in dynasty roll over you. the PVP wins was almost always reserved for the higher tier levels. And as usual there were always people crying about how unfair it is to lower levels. Well, what did you have in mind when you read "open world pvp" before installing?
The class merge was a bad move however.... playing half of the classes was reduced to rolling your face on the keyboard. the other half of the classes are just stacking reflect and run like headless chickens. before, (if the levels and gear matched) the pvp would heavily depend on knowing the classes and skills, and how to counter/avoid/interrupt them. Enchant routes on skills mattered, element choices made more of a difference.
Also the "daily marathon" is plain annoying, people simply hide in instances that are accessible from towns. Of course nobody is forced to do the repetitive dailies, and I am sure that if not for the instances finding a good Xp spot would be difficult, but this was never the style of L2. If you wanted the prime Xp you had to fight for it and defend it. Somtimes even a mediocre Xp spot was hard to get. Before you had to actually go out and risk loosing Xp to gain Xp. Or risk getting ganged while looking for wartags Xping.
Now the game is reduced to rolling your head on a keyboard during the marathon of dailies from town, it lost that feeling that L2 used to give before.
Level damage nurf was always there, just not as obvious. When the servers were in D grade and someone in C showed up, they were epic. When you were in A grade (lets say level 72) and had some archer (lets say, 77) in drac with 60 ele per piece and a 150 bow come after you there was not a whole lot you could do either. Same thing came when you were level 76 in Drac and had someone in dynasty roll over you. the PVP wins was almost always reserved for the higher tier levels. And as usual there were always people crying about how unfair it is to lower levels. Well, what did you have in mind when you read "open world pvp" before installing?
No, Lol. The Attribute System didn't come until the Gracia Expansion, anyways, and up until then a 72 could seige against level 78 characters and not feel like trash. In fact, up until the Attribute system was introduced a lot of S Graders wore A Grade gear because it was simply superior to the S Grade sets. Lots of them even used A Grade weapons cause the S shots were $$$$. That lets you know how much the gear mattered at those higher levels - not nearly as much as it does not. Epics did matter, however, especially since the resists on them were otherworldly.
The attribute system was put in as a way to force players to upgrade their gear. It also destroyed mass PvP or PvP in general for a lot of more casual clans who otherwise could live for more than 30 seconds against those seige forced (or most of the not top of the top seige forces, at least). Dynasty wasn't all that much better than S Grade, not nearly as much as you're implying.
In C5 with Proper Buffs and Resist buffs a 72 in A Grade had no issues seiging against S Graders and damage was not nearly as off as it is now.
The level based damage penalty was initially implemented to stop players from flooding to higher XP, higher level areas that higher level players needed (cause high level XP spots are more at a premium than lower spots, which have lots of redundancy) and later extended to PvP.
It was a bad move because in R Grade the difference in XP between a 90 and 95 (Different Armor and Weapon Grades + Skill Upgrades and possibly some OE'd skills in some places) is not even in the same stratosphere as between a 72 and a 76 (even in C5 a DD with a boxed buffer [or vice versa] could conquer those levels in < 2 weeks, the average person will not be doing 90-95 in that span of time given similar resources). It leaves the 90 doing sometimes less than half the damage the 95 is doing, which leads to another issue: People will not WANT to PvP when they're basically destined to lose just due to game mechanics. When your damage is off so much, skill begans to cease to matter because any way you outplay the opponent can easily be mitigated with pots and the like.
The level based damage nerf you're talking about is completely different. That always exists, in any game, as a side product of being higher level and having better gear (or even being the same level and having the better gear - it's basically the same thing, better gear = better toon). This level-based damage nerf is a game mechanic that is strictly binary. If you're X levels under Y you do Z less damage - period, nothing you can do about it. You can try to imba up your gear all you want but you will always do significantly less damage output just based on your character level. It causes people to ignore PvP because there's no point in trying to destroy a mountain with a fork. No one likes being basically forced to need a pocket healer just to kill one solo DD (and still have it take forever and a day to accommplish). It's boring and to many it's frustrating.
The class merge was a bad move however.... playing half of the classes was reduced to rolling your face on the keyboard. the other half of the classes are just stacking reflect and run like headless chickens. before, (if the levels and gear matched) the pvp would heavily depend on knowing the classes and skills, and how to counter/avoid/interrupt them. Enchant routes on skills mattered, element choices made more of a difference.
The issue I have with the class merge has more to do with mechanics than anything. They merged the classes and basically redesigned half the playerbase's toons, but they really didn't do anything to make hte game any funner to play. The new classes could only be fresh and fun for so long because players started to get burnt out again.
Reflect will be fixed. Those things are easily fixed. It's harder to fix boring classes and boring PvE and the developers will see no incentive to fix them as they have just gone through the trouble of thoroughly "revamping" all of them, if you can call it that. People are getting bored of their toons, because most classes really don't have anything fun about them other than "I do a lot of damage," "I live forever," or "I'm OP mowing MOBs down." The skills most get at higher levels are lulzworthy and barely seem worth the investment in levels, even given the advantages they gain over lower level toons as a side effect of leveling up.
Also the "daily marathon" is plain annoying, people simply hide in instances that are accessible from towns. Of course nobody is forced to do the repetitive dailies, and I am sure that if not for the instances finding a good Xp spot would be difficult, but this was never the style of L2. If you wanted the prime Xp you had to fight for it and defend it. Somtimes even a mediocre Xp spot was hard to get. Before you had to actually go out and risk loosing Xp to gain Xp. Or risk getting ganged while looking for wartags Xping.
Agree, except you're basically forced to do the dailies because they give too much XP and if you don't you will end up several levels behind those who do.
As far as going risk XP to get XP, people won't do that solo because the XP out there is terrible. They increased the XP in Altar/Swamp/Fairies but the MOBs take twice as long to kill for most people, resulting in basically the same XP gain. Nice try, though NCSoft
A MOB my Feoh could kill in 2-3 shots with WORSE gear 2-3 levels ago now takes 5-7 shots for not even double the XP as before? If you aren't a Summoner it's not even worth soloing in those fields except for the daily quests. In many cases even wartags will turn a blind eye to each other just to get those quests done.
Now the game is reduced to rolling your head on a keyboard during the marathon of dailies from town, it lost that feeling that L2 used to give before.
No, it's reduced to grouping to PL the Holy Trinity of L2 (Tank/Healer/Iss) cause without them you aren't going to get much of anything done (unless you have an all-summoner group with a live Iss).
As soon as I saw the patch notes for class consolidation (as well as other changes) I knew this game was pretty much over for me. They killed all the variety that came with the class system along with all the end-game options map-wise. People who said the previous classes were identical were plain ******ed.
I don't see what was wrong with a complex class system where we had 36 classes. Class balance was pretty much okay in High Five with slight exceptions, however I always liked how certain classes were useful inside their niche. It gave everyone specific roles that made the game unique in that aspect. They sucessfully destroyed this part of the game and added the joke of normalized stats (that barely make a difference between races now) and lol racial passives or skills with 1 hour reuse effects.
I do miss having different mages: spellsingers with their insane cast speed and cancel, endless slows and AOE's, spellhowlers with their ******ed high Matk and silence/heal nerf effects, sorcerers always being called useless for being inbetween these two, and necros for their op curses, pets with transfer pain and endless drains. Soulhounds were also incredibely fun with their melee prowness (great crit, hard hitting skills on robes) and magic skills, as well as the buff stealing and aoe para that made people QQ for years.
Fighters were also very diverse. Berserkers were the most mobile class with spammable rush, and the most annoying to fight against (anyone remember +30 time disarm?), and perma soul barrier/full HP heal that made all mages shed in tears. Gladiators always had the big spike damage and AOEs dropping several people at once with their charge skills while Tyrants had a mix of both hard hitting skills and solid DPS (countless totems that shaped their stats depending on situation). And let's not forget destroyers with their 9999999999 PATK and stuns that could solo/oneshot raid bosses in some earlier chronicles. However, they were as slow as a snail. Warlords were the most fun pve class of the game, with the best polearm specialization. They could hit over 30 mobs at once with enchanted masteries and had countless stuns and crowd control skills. Too bad they always sucked for pvp since they never had any real burst damage or mobility.
Tanks were also noticeably different between each other, and their skills were a lot more interesting than what we have now. Dark avengers with their kitty, endless array of cancels, stuns, root and reflects were always stupid strong in oly. Paladins were also awesome as group support with their phoenix, heals and imba buffs. SKs were extremly fun because their cubics and curses would fill your debuff bar under 3 seconds and their fast speed/drains would eventually wear you off. Spirit of Shillen was also one of the best pve buffs that pretty much negated the need for a healer due to massive lifesteal. And then we had the most annoying tank ever, the TK with like 5 self heals, slow/root cubic and endless shield block.
Archers have always been pretty similar, however HEs used to be frequent due to their good mobility with Dash, highest range and carry capacity and higher accuracy. SRs excelled at closer range combat due to their -50% range skill but kinda lacked offensive power other than superior attack speed buff + triggers for party. PR's were pretty much the biggest crits you'd see on archers due to dead eye but boy were they squishy. Arbalesters were rather unique with their warp and traps, but their damage was kinda meh outside a few skills. Pranah was godly (anakims mad?) and so was Real target, which made it the best support archer. Many tears would shed on people when you lethaled someone with deadly roulette too.
Daggers also used to be more fun due to their spike damage and cp bypass/lethals. Treasure Hunters have always been the most popular one due to good mobility, highest hp, lots of detargets and the neverending annoying mirage. However, they never really had the offensive potential of either Abysswalkers (focus death + highest str skill crits) or Plainswalkers with the endless evasion, blinding blow, mortal would, run speed and Dodge (and also lol heal).
There also used to be 3 diverse healers. Bishops were the main healer class with the best party heals (greater group heal, balance life), and cleanse. Their sublime/aoe mana burn field also made people QQ very hard especially in sieges. SEs were the best pve heal support in the game, being able to customize their skills with 4 pomaders. They would fit into any party they wanted, be it mages, fighters or poling. Stigma/LoV/Btb were pretty awesome if you added other 4 pure healing skills from other classes, but if you wanted pvp they would never take an EE's place since they had the best casting, mana efficiency via clarity/pow and the stupid op bless of eva. Oh, and SE/EE were the only recharge on demand classes in the game, too. Every nuker had one of them boxed eventually.
Buffers were also very varied. You had the useless Prophets which nobody would party with because they couldn't wait 1 minute for buffing individually, Warcryers that everyone drooled over because of instant melee party buffs and melee prowness (drains, stuns, war cry) and overlords with their ALLY-WIDE buffs and debuffs which made them the best siege class in the game as well as a boss puller in aoe parties (fog, dino, it, varkas anyone?). Bladedancers were kinda boring but there was no other class that would find parties faster since they added incredible killing boost, while poor swordsingers had to solo in mediocre speed because people only wanted them for pvp or serious raids due to their defensive nature. And of course, for those with 2 kamael subs you could create an inspector with borderline 20 second broken buffs for raids and imba party invocation.
Dwarves were always the monkey makers, bhs with the lolspoil and festival, being able to farm mats faster than anything else while wsmiths had their sucky golems and ability to craft. At least they were made decent in h5 with dagger skills
Summoners were a bit similar, all of them being very efficient soloers and generally not very useful in anything other than olympiad. Everyone loved warlocks with their queen's blessing buff, as well as their annoyance in oly with both banes and arcane disruption and binding cubic. Ponys were also OPed due to their ******ed hard hitting aoe nukes and the seraphim buffs for mages. Phantom summoners have always been left aside since they offered no party utility, but their transformation was **** good and his pets had some pretty amazing damage and nightshade had some great skills (drains, heal, agression) which were actually decent in PVP. All summoners were made pretty **** strong in h5 with their nukes and pet scaling.
Yeah... I miss the original classes, and I liked their niche and roles and various party compositions (9 slots before). It was definetly more fun than what we have now, which is present in almost every other mmo thesedays (generalized classes suck, period). In all, they managed to mess up the best values of the game with GoD, the class system being only 1 of them. Shame...
You pretty much summed up my thoughts.. Diversity has gone to the way side.. Maybe the 2 new classes that will be coming in a couple updates will add at least some diversity...
What? Necro was a horribly unbalanced class. Lots of useful debuffs? Transfer pain? Full power nuke?
Necro was the ultimate nuker in l2.He had his time of overpower (as any dd had in this game),he had days everything was against him,but anyone who played necro in officiel,or lvling/pvping with necros knows he was the most balanced nuker in terms,he was the master of crowd control+powerfull fast nukes+use servitors,having nuke power and surbability ,linking him with all the tales and storys about ancient and modern wizards.
Ofc,he was not the type of class you would make for bot/farm adena, thats why most of players(who wanted to bot ) didnt choose him to play but only in his op days.
As for how i see game evolution,i see L2 having so many plastic surgerys,it is hardly been recogneized.The reasons i felt in love with this game dont exist anymore.The version of game we got from ncwest,didnt make things better after awaken system.The f2p with x1 rates required spending more $ from what we had to pay for suscription,just to lvl with a medium rate,if we talk about gear,then we talk about thousands of $ for coins.The little joy players felt in the begining of coins shop dissapeared once they realised that all '' fashion'' /agathions ect, were 7days summon or they just couldnt buy them since they had to spend their coins every month on vitality items.
For the lvl penalty in pvp,it has been an issue since it first introduced.Since the top clans botted to 99,this penalty was proven one of the biggest fails from Ncsoft,making the non-botters ''toys'' for the end lvls to gang them and make them pr.What's the joy to play a game you see the endlvl(bot)player will come everyday to make you pr from your spot(without any other spot to go since game has only 2 spots for your lvls) and you understand this is what it will be for the next 9+ months,untill you will become 98+ too.
The easy solution-stay out of pvp clan and bot/or grind to 99- was again a way to kill any interest was left,people got bored and started quit/sell toons.
Combine all above with the lag on sieges and its a miracle l2 has still players in our servers.
who remembers the players that made L2 legendery with their playing?Who remembers how game was before new dev team ''transform it'' into what we have now?
btw,he was my ''hero'' in l2,years later i met him in the server he transfered and played together,his old sorc is the most famous case of scaming in L2 history,his new sorc had just a frintezza,a +3 weapon and a dynasty set,not even end lvl,yet,he was pvping against anyone in the times sts thought they are 1 hit2kill gods.
an ex- all time Lionna hero- non endlvl sorc with a never-farmed oly to take hero-non endlvl necro,you brought me back memorys.
Vocal? Like making a single post in an authoritative and articulate manner? Listen here, my comments are essentially from the top of the hill looking down. I figured this thread needed at least one opinion from those that have succeeded at L2.
Do what we did, buy the nccoin and given a consistent party/schedule you can be 99 as well in 8 months.
Succeeded in having no life? Yes.
If all you do is sit at a computer, spending money to go level yourself up in an MMO, that's just sad.
It's a game meant to enjoy, relax, and have fun, not make it your constant day job.
In theory, Diego's method doesn't sound illegitimate at all. If you have a good CP who are knowledgeable about the game, and have spare change to spend on the game in order to get a head faster, you're most likely to succeed.
The plan falls apart if you either have no money, or a good cp.
+ With no money and a good cp, also the amount of time you spend in the game, you'll either get there soon or much later. Time being the main factor here.
+ With no cp and money, you should be able to manage lvling just as decently, although having a clan proves helpful too, but even without one... so long as you know where to go, how to play your toon, and how to be efficient with your time, you'll do fine.
+ Without either, you're going to be lvling extremely slow, which is about the average player in this game anyway, so don't fret.
So, whether he's lying or not, what he's saying is reasonable anyway.
What make's this guy a ****** is his arrogance, which makes it harder to accept what he has to say even though it's legit. But no matter, arrogance is always humbled in the end anyway.
who remembers the players that made L2 legendery with their playing?Who remembers how game was before new dev team ''transform it'' into what we have now?
btw,he was my ''hero'' in l2,years later i met him in the server he transfered and played together,his old sorc is the most famous case of scaming in L2 history,his new sorc had just a frintezza,a +3 weapon and a dynasty set,not even end lvl,yet,he was pvping against anyone in the times sts thought they are 1 hit2kill gods.
an ex- all time Lionna hero- non endlvl sorc with a never-farmed oly to take hero-non endlvl necro,you brought me back memorys.
So you are saying the class was OPed?
Cause all i see you saying is that someone was good with their class. There was always someone exceeding with their class, didn't made it OPed. I remember GODLIKE prophets, but the class was nowhere near OPed, it was actually underplayed and useless to many with the rise of WCs.
Cause rly i dunno why are you telling me this...what's your point?
Cause all i see you saying is that someone was good with their class. There was always someone exceeding with their class, didn't made it OPed. I remember GODLIKE prophets, but the class was nowhere near OPed, it was actually underplayed and useless to many with the rise of WCs.
Cause rly i dunno why are you telling me this...what's your point?
I dont think any people ever cried because they got ganged by GODLIKE prophets!
When glowing neosze was 1 hiting all Lionna with +10 epics,+11 weapon and best augm being the perma-sorc hero,i doubt if people didnt think sorc is op!
When the second toon neosze was made by the same OP player on hellbound update when sts was OP 1hiting people,he didnt have any problem at all to kill any sts just with this basic gear.
It's the excellent player combining with strong gear(and good teamwork/friends) that made some classes OP and LEGENTS in L2,not an OP skill.
3-4 hours == day job ? oh right its summer and you are probably out of school.
Sorry kiddo, just because you are a slacker doesnt mean we all are. 3-4 hours a day is perfect for me.
Work 8 Hours.
Let's be nice and say 2 hours a day transit time to and from, maybe stop to get something to eat a few days a week (with the traffic here) cause you won't have much time to make any sort of decent meals with those play commitments.
That's 10 hours. Then 3.5 hours average is 13.5 hours.
Okay, so assume you wake up 1 hour before work to get ready (ambitious for some people, nevermind some work upwards of 10-12 hours a day anyways), that's 14.5 hours. If you want to sleep 8 hours that night, that leaves you 1.5 hours to actually have a life, every day. 1 hour if you do 4 hours that day. If you work 10 hour days or have to pull overtime you're probably cutting into your sleep just to hold up a CP commitment - idiotic at best, negligent at worst.
So yea, 3-4 hours *a day* is a bit unreasonable of a schedule. That's 21-28 hours a week of commited gaming, Lol. I'm a competitive athlete and I don't even train 25 (averaged) hours a week. I don't need you to call me a slacker considering I've been playing MMORPGs rather hardcore for over a decade and used to have a 5 hour/6 day a week raid schedule for over half of it. I know what's workable in a normal adult [with responsibilities] life and what isn't, and to many people a 3-4 hour a day *commitment* simply isn't possible unless they want a divorce or unfavorable custody arrangements. Especially for THIS game, of all things. The fact that those people you're replying to care that much is unhealthy enough, IMO :-P
Just cause it works for you doesn't make you any better than anyone else. I can totally make it work for me. 3-4 hours a day is childs play and relatively softcore for me, TBQH. It's nothing, and that's how casual guilds used to play in those other games I played/play, you're a casual who just focused on grinding with his online time, instead of other things as far as I'm concerned. But when you want to have a full real life outside of the game justifying that amount of time to a game simply becomes too difficult.
I like to take road trips on the weekends without worrying about 6 other players complaining about my absence, thank you, and sometimes I simply don't feel like logging in. All that factors in.
Iss: They work has intented, buffer/debuffer class, medium dmg (assist) and a must in all party. The problem in almost anything is that the ramdoms iss are secondary chars, so, nobody knows how to play them (or at least 2/3 didnt).
Aeore: As iss, they are a must in a party, and they work fine. Maybe a little OP in 1vs1, but that happens in rare situations (olys, duels, or casual pvp).
Sigel: Me and a friends of mine spent around 30 min in order to earn a tank for doing kartia/soa/harnak. I think that the best way to keep ppl using tank is to keep his 2nd/3rd class skills, that will make them more usefull, and with that more fun to play as. sacrifice, they summons, cubics, and even the debuffs of the ST.
Wynn: I didnt think they are OP, just overrated. Six month ago, was almost imposible to find one, now, they are like a plague, but afther doing some kartia/sos whit one, I see that the overall DPS is almost the same like a Feoh or othell. The only thing that make them so usefull is mana sharing and his endless mp (mark of void).
Yull: I think that the ppl who complain about him, is because they are of the oll F1 scholl, I didnt know anybody who complaint about him.
Othell: They need to do alot of dmg, that are his function, I think that they need a little more skill dmg.
Tyrr: The problem with the tyrr is that, a lot of diferent classes was merged into 1, so a lot of ppl miss they unique chars, like sigel, I think that they need to keep his 2nd and 3rd class skills, and remove the merged skills (selfbuff, debuff, toggles, not the dmg skill ones). Will be awesome to see a Orc tyrr with his totems, or rage, Or a Duelist using his debuffs, Or even a Kamael with disarm/fourious soul.
Feoh: The are good for me, good DPS, low pdef, working like allways was in all MMO (class cannon).
I think that the problem isnt the merge of the classes, the problem is that the ppl get boring by doing allways the same, at least untill 88-90, wich is kartia/soa/harnak all the time. I think that nc need to reduce the exp curve untill 90, or give uss more variety to that lvl. Allmost all clases get the "good" skills in the 90´.
Some ppl have a lot of time to play, other not and they cant manage a CP. And like the game is right now, whitout a CP you cant do almost anything after awake (or at least nothing who help like in party play).
I think that, the end gameplay need to be for farm/craft/buy the top gear, and not like now, who is almost imposible to reach 99. Cuz 2/3 ppl come from private servers, and in that servers, lvl is not the point, Make top gear and get fun with pvp/pk/event is the point. Look how many player at 85-88 are and how many 95-99.
Tyrr: The problem with the tyrr is that, a lot of diferent classes was merged into 1, so a lot of ppl miss they unique chars, like sigel, I think that they need to keep his 2nd and 3rd class skills, and remove the merged skills (selfbuff, debuff, toggles, not the dmg skill ones). Will be awesome to see a Orc tyrr with his totems, or rage, Or a Duelist using his debuffs, Or even a Kamael with disarm/fourious soul.
Feoh: The are good for me, good DPS, low pdef, working like allways was in all MMO (class cannon).
Duelist debuff was disarm. Is that what you're refering to? Doombringer disarm could go up to +15 seconds duration, no thx. We don't need that on tyrr, it's quite powerful as it is, Totems are Crys, they're the exact same thing but weaker, why would anyone want them?
Aeore Healers at end game lvls in hvy armor are almost immortal and I know Feoh's that can destroy 95+ groups with just an ISS for bufs & heals
still true review on how balanced it all is can only be done once more/most ppl are lvl99 with +10 skills as right now any 99 with skill oe will beat anything else except maybe stacked tanks cause those can soak up damage like no other..
still I found things way more balanced in H5 then what we have now (except the fear/anakim nonsense ofc).
Since for at least the next 18 months the level cap is not increasing (Glory Days, Echo 1 -5 and next major update do not raise the level cap) and the average level on servers is approaching 91 - 92 this problem will correct itself by I would say end of the winter.
The best time in l2 was when the level cap was 85 and everyone even the casual players were starting to hit it, even the power clans of Nova, FS, Enmity, Bregan etc admitted that, because it was a challenge to fight people your own level, if you were not organize or depending on programs it showed and you would lose.
Of course the power gamers will still have an edge with there gear or mega OE skills but the balance is better.
Issue i see until glory days is the hunting grounds post 95 are very crowded making it hard for people to get to 99 in any kind of time.
85 - 90 is a breeze now and 90 - 95 with several different grouping places is not so difficult either.
Game will balance itself within the year then probably about 4 - 6 months of people getting to max level maxing out there toons and level cap raised again.
L2 is not a sprint its a marathon and the people that realize are happier in this game and play longer. I been playing without a real break for over 8 1/2 years and clan leader for 7 1/2 of them.
Sly I think you underestimate how brutal the grind gets after 96.. the power gamers/bots are already 98+ with several even 98+ on dual sub already..
once you're 97+ the only way to advance further is to join a clan that actually has daily groups xping at either orbis lvl2/3 or guillotine or Industrial which will be quite hard with party matching system cause those tend to not stay up and running for 3+ hours without any interruption.
it's save to say 90% of the player base will not hit 99 within the next year.
People were unable to get to 85 before the goddess update with massive amounts of dbl xp events and people now think the game is easier to get to 99 without them. Interesting!
Sly I think you underestimate how brutal the grind gets after 96.. the power gamers/bots are already 98+ with several even 98+ on dual sub already..
once you're 97+ the only way to advance further is to join a clan that actually has daily groups xping at either orbis lvl2/3 or guillotine or Industrial which will be quite hard with party matching system cause those tend to not stay up and running for 3+ hours without any interruption.
it's save to say 90% of the player base will not hit 99 within the next year.
Oh I am quite aware.
I was 63 in C1 before automated SS or Skills past level 58. Now you want to talk slow thats slow when you needed a full party to kill even solo mobs.
I was 85 for a year before GoD btw to the other poster. I had it long before the double and triple xp events started hence why i have a stockpile of vit items that it will take 2 - 3 years to use at 21 a week lol.
I have friends who are not in power clans that are 97 98 99 so it can be done, average level in my clan is 91 - 92. As I said it gets hard because of lack of xp areas plus 95 but given a year time it very doable that is average of 1 level every 8 weeks. 800% divided by 365 = 2.1% a day which is nothing until 96 ish so you can easily do it.
I was 63 in C1 before automated SS or Skills past level 58. Now you want to talk slow thats slow when you needed a full party to kill even solo mobs.
I was 85 for a year before GoD btw to the other poster. I had it long before the double and triple xp events started hence why i have a stockpile of vit items that it will take 2 - 3 years to use at 21 a week lol.
I have friends who are not in power clans that are 97 98 99 so it can be done, average level in my clan is 91 - 92. As I said it gets hard because of lack of xp areas plus 95 but given a year time it very doable that is average of 1 level every 8 weeks. 800% divided by 365 = 2.1% a day which is nothing until 96 ish so you can easily do it.
Just because they are not in a powerclan does not mean they don't have a constant party or don't buy vit pots or whatever or got lucky enough as you were to have stockpiles of them. Class will also factor in those people you were talking about if they are good at their class and are a tank healer, and can play 8+ hours a day I don't see how it wouldn't be possible, but it's all circumstance.
Ok so there are those that cheat and it is very obvious from battle duration who they are but they are currently the minority as EG has only been a viable bot spot since tauti launched. Prior to that there were no uncontended high level xp spots.
Let me explain how I and my party got 99.
1) 150 USD per month in NCoin items per char
2) 4 hours a day of hunting every day for 8 months
3) LOL xp events that gave us stuff like perma vit or weeks of follow the dragon.
I am on not on any battle duration list, I have no super high rss usage and I am typically in the top 8 for all the major raid rankings.
I and my party are the poster children for success at L2. Semi casual play, good NCoin usage, winning heroes / deomlishing everyone at pvp.
I and people like me who by the way do tend to congregate into clans will always be better then most of you due to our commitment and tenacity.
Pro tip: the way to 99 is not marathon runs it is short consistent grind using as much of the available ncoin resources available. Everyone in my group is in their late 20's early 30's and we just don't have the time to play 10+h a day. We all have jobs and frankly I spend more on coffee in a month then I do maxing vit items out of the ncstore.
Finally, just cause you are 99 does not mean you are instantly OP. My char has gear/augs and oe's that let me crush my enemies, none of which was handed to me when I dinged. I have 27 skills +10, go ask anyone who has taken a skill to 10 how much that costs. Being the top of your class when it comes to farming raids and always having vit/maphrs runes for bonus drop has a fairly profound effect on your wallet long term.
In short, we win. the mediocres need not try to compare, just do yourself a favor and try and emulate as our track record is now proven.
You win as you say bacause you have the friend base that allows you to. You have made friends that stuck with you and that may be luck or whatever gratz for most people this won't happen and with this game being 8 years old good luck even more. The fact is without the key, (your friends) you'd be saying the opposite of everything you said, could you or would you have done all you have done, NOPE!
Now, is it fair or not, really doesn't matter, but most of the top clans are top clans not because of skill, but because they had the same people online consistancy pays off. Also, these players are organized when they did go online and don't do random parties for there is no need, all they need to do is get to the mob, or raid they want and exp and farm. Give anyone 6 opposite classes or a full party with people online during same play times and watch them dominate like everyone else that ever was a powerclan or a good player. This is not a FPS and not c3 anymore were you could solo and be someone na, now you have to party! It should be on the requirments page to play this game.
People were unable to get to 85 before the goddess update with massive amounts of dbl xp events and people now think the game is easier to get to 99 without them. Interesting!
I came back to game one month before GoD went live and managed to do 78-85-100% a couple days before GoD came out.
So you had to be extremely casual or lazy to not hit 85 before GoD came out.
You win as you say bacause you have the friend base that allows you to. You have made friends that stuck with you and that may be luck or whatever gratz for most people this won't happen and with this game being 8 years old good luck even more. The fact is without the key, (your friends) you'd be saying the opposite of everything you said, could you or would you have done all you have done, NOPE!
Now, is it fair or not, really doesn't matter, but most of the top clans are top clans not because of skill, but because they had the same people online consistancy pays off. Also, these players are organized when they did go online and don't do random parties for there is no need, all they need to do is get to the mob, or raid they want and exp and farm. Give anyone 6 opposite classes or a full party with people online during same play times and watch them dominate like everyone else that ever was a powerclan or a good player. This is not a FPS and not c3 anymore were you could solo and be someone na, now you have to party! It should be on the requirments page to play this game.
I think you overestimate the randoms. They lack even the concentration to pay attention to what their party is doing most of the time. Put 7 randoms in a party and they will just take turns going afk or training their own party.
Most ppl dont want to organize it as much as the top clans do, nor do they wanna spend consistent time online.
I came back to game one month before GoD went live and managed to do 78-85-100% a couple days before GoD came out.
So you had to be extremely casual or lazy to not hit 85 before GoD came out.
Yet unless you are being lazy now and your sig is not up to update, you're 91 on an iss enchanter and 86 on a tyrr. So are you lazy now or what? How can you say people are lazy when you were 85 before goddess came out and only acomplished that! Of course you'll probably say "I never updated my sig," but your join date was in April, so lets compare what level you are now till then. And please use a screen shot. I''d like to see how you are doing now, just for kicks.
HitsHard 86 Tyrr (New main)
KingBuff 91 ISS/85 Healer (Box)
I think you overestimate the randoms. They lack even the concentration to pay attention to what their party is doing most of the time. Put 7 randoms in a party and they will just take turns going afk or training their own party.
Most ppl dont want to organize it as much as the top clans do, nor do they wanna spend consistent time online.
Thats why we call them casuals.
So you your response is people will go afk, then those people get kicked form the party, pretty sure it rarely happens anyways. Isn't that the point in which I said. He wouldn't achieve all he has achieved without his key, friendbase. If the average player or randoms have the same party they will do the same and be a great player. There is no I in team, but there are stand out players.
Have a newbie join this game, allow them to go to a clan where people work together and he will learn to play the game, it's common knowledge, you won't be good playing by yourself in this game. There has to be some interaction for pvp to happen and this is how we base good players or atleast it use to be that way, you are not known for killing mobs.
Back to the group, Of course there will be breaks and people will leave because unlike the "hardcore" they can't play hours and hours a day or be on the forums all the time, but those people will acomplish more because they don't have to look for the party, they already have it. So my point still stands you give the same people a group everday and they will achieve what he achieved there is nothing secret or special about it, the key is finding the people to do it with And that sir is what you call Lineage 2
I wish I could backflip like you, I could work in a circus :D
Ppl that want to achieve something in this game, find others that are like them. Eventually, over time, clans like this dominate servers, because of the way they like playing the game.
Once domination is secured, you usually get scum applying to join such clans, aka the botters and cheaters, and sadly some of these clans allow them to join. These ppl will most likely leave when the going gets though though.
And there are more than likely, on any given server, atleast 6 ppl online at the exact same hour you usually play, but you dont make a constant party with them, do you? And most dont, coz they dont want to spend the extra time to do so. And thats why they wont lvl as fast, or get as much done.
No need to try and raise ppls expectations of randoms, they will just get disappointed when they see the truth.
As I said it gets hard because of lack of xp areas plus 95 but given a year time it very doable that is average of 1 level every 8 weeks. 800% divided by 365 = 2.1% a day which is nothing until 96 ish so you can easily do it.
You should be able to out do 2.1% a day all the way tell 97. Even with 3/4hours of playtime.
. If the average player or randoms have the same party they will do the same and be a great player. There is no I in team, but there are stand out players.
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink...
You could put 7 randoms into the exact same party setup and give them similar playtime's but there's no way those people will be anything but randoms. A constant party takes dedication. Theres a reason they are randoms, and that is due to lack of dedication and overall gameplay abilities imo. Yes, this is a video game, but if you want to be something more then a "random" you better have at least alittle bit of dedication. The random that goes afk from his constant party because he decided he needs to run to the store now (Tho its open all night) instead of waiting tell there xp party is over is not going to go anywhere. Believe me, i've been party of 2 good constants, and both had similar issues. That was with people i played with for YEARs.
Joe bob decided to go to the store for 10minutes, no big deal. Well while Joe Bob was away Julie decided to go paint her nails. Joe bob returns, and Julie is away. 25mins pass and julie returns, and frank is watching his favorite tv show in the living room. Its a mess even with a decent constant party. Patients and dedication gets you to where Diego and his group went, and yes of course, a good group of players but the first 2 are huge. When you emo out because joe bob went afk for 1hour and kick him from your constant, you waist another 3 weeks trying to replace him, and so on ;D
So yes, your right. A good group of friends IS huge. However, you cant pick 7 randoms even with 7 similar playtimes, and tell them to start a constant party and expect it to be great, as your saying. Or, even average...
Thats just the people and personality factor....That doesn't even factor into the fact that alot of these "randoms" will have no idea what to do in terms of endgame pve or pvp inless some1 holds there hand. So those randoms will have to be taught the endgame or "powerplayer" level of play. Instead of aoeing orbis 2 they are aoeing SoS mobs for 5hours trying to finish a daily quest. Instead of doing istina when it was great xp with a group they were busy doing somthing else stupid like raiding frintezza because there tank needs a frint for reuse..... Why? Because thats how randoms are.
So pretty much what Yourbad and Smitty think in life is there is no progression, people are not capable of learning how to do things on their own and wouldn't figure out how to aoe or kill a mob in this game, or where to grind to better themselves as they play more with the same people. That is very interesting because the people that first did the Aoeing in certain areas had to learn from somewhere, they did not just gain knowledge they had trial and error.
Reading Smitty post he pretty much thinks randoms suck, just like private server players are cockroaches, and that is irony at best because we were all noobs and randoms and many of the people playing are from private servers, when the game went f2p who do you think the influx of players were? LOL
Being in many random parties and a few cp I see both with trials of learning how and what to do but eventually as humans we learn and get better. As I pointed out without the party in the first place, no matter who is new, random you will not acomplish more at this game, you learn more as a group than solo and get more chance to do it.
By stating all randoms parties suck because people go afk, or cheat is a different subject it's up to the party members to make a great party, do you friend players that do this or do you friend players who want to learn and progress.
The subject is partying with players getting to know them and learning thier play style. If you are playing with people that are constanly ignoring the party, doing thier own thing they are not people whom you want anyways.
I wish I could backflip like you, I could work in a circus :D
Ppl that want to achieve something in this game, find others that are like them. Eventually, over time, clans like this dominate servers, because of the way they like playing the game.
Once domination is secured, you usually get scum applying to join such clans, aka the botters and cheaters, and sadly some of these clans allow them to join. These ppl will most likely leave when the going gets though though.
Nonsense...
Most of the top players have their hands dirty in one way or the other when it comes to gameplay. I've been playing this game since beta and I've been on the forums since they started. BOTH forums, the official one and the real one. I've seen what guys say on one forum and then lie about on the other. I've gotten to know plenty of players, moved in and out of clans, and seen what people really do in this game.
I've seen legit clans that had XP parties for hours a day, with exceptional raid organization skills and a sincere desire to get ahead on the server and somehow they were never able to bridge the gap between themselves and the so-called "top" clans. Then I watched a couple of those clans assume a more "pro" mindset where they started botting for money, using programs for pvp, and afk leveling. All of a sudden, they turned into factor clans.
Only a certain kind of determination gets you anywhere in this game, and it's not the legal kind. This is the very definition of L2 domination.
Once domination is secured, you usually get scum applying to join such clans, aka the botters and cheaters, and sadly some of these clans allow them to join. These ppl will most likely leave when the going gets though though.
Maybe that happens on Chronos but not on Naia. Ask one of the few 99 feohs on naia (which happens to be on a wide known top clan) about his shady party on orbis, harnak 1 and gog lower.