Some days ago i joined a random Istina party at Naia (level 90+ boss with good drops, mostly done by 93+ ppl). I knew i would regret doing it since party entry level was 90 or 91 and many ppl were still in immortal gear etc. Anyway, after 1 hour we managed to kill the rb and started the proccess of distributing the loot. Then, the one who picked the drops... took the money and ran!
This is not the 1st time this happens (especially at this rb) but why is it so common nowadays and how can it be stopped (given that as game progresses, it's going to be more popular raid, like Zaken)?
I tried to open an ingame petition, i saw a category bad players-> fraud, but then the game said it was not working! I didn't bother to open a ticket or anything, i think it would be a waste of time (or wouldn't it?)
So as far as the players are concerned, what do we do about fraud? Personaly, i'm against opening party rooms with titles for example "Sace Istina scammer" etc. I prefer keeping the party matching clean. In addition, everyone could acuse anyone for fraud, just because he didn't get a drop.
The biggest issue or me is that some scammers are not "jumping" out of nowhere, but are "known" players and belong to active clans. So how would u ppl handle a situation like that?
PS. For those who just read the first lines and ant to answer "QQ cause u didn't get the drops", please read the rest of the post before u make a fool of yourselves!
Well "nothing you can do" is generally not an option for me. My concern is what the community is willing to do. The GMs are not interested in stopping RMT, spamming, botting etc. But fraud is a totally othr issue. Many clans for example at clan recruitment adds put "no botting" rules. But how come scammers run around with popular clan crests?
I read somewhere long ago that said something along the lines of "buyer beware", and never trade anything to anyone that you aren't ready to lose forever. Kinda the same deal with raid drops. There's no "split loot evenly" option, so it goes to whoever it goes to. That's where someone's honesty comes into place. You can agree all day what you'll do with the drops, but a scumbag is a scumbag...they'll tell you what you need to hear to trust them, then split when they get what they want. Ain't nuttin' you can do about it. :confused:
never do find keepers pt, and for last, if u have a felling or a clue that someone in other party at command channel have/use one auto device, try to make them kick him, or find another group.
auto devices ignore cinematic. so this kind off ppl pick up the loot before u can see something, this happend with me twice already.
Best thing you can do is keep a list of names of players not to party with. block them whatever. Eventually these players won't be able to get a party because they've been dishonest so many times.
I find it amazing that someone could get to 93+ in the game and not know that GMs don't care about this kind of situation. And by "amazing" I mean "stupid".
I find it amazing that someone could get to 93+ in the game and not know that GMs don't care about this kind of situation. And by "amazing" I mean "stupid".
Rule #1 from the Rules of Conduct: (http://us.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-agreements/lineage-2-rules-of-conduct.html)
While playing Lineage II, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.
Though I do agree with Tiferet1 that crying over lost pixels is kinda pointless. I have only heard of 1 person being banned temporarily for "scamming" other players over the past 8 years, which means that the priority isn't really high for GM's to make interventions between players.
If someone screws you over there's not much you can do other than warn other players from getting screwed by the same person.
Betrayal is part of the Lineage2 gameplay, - has been like that, is like that and will always be like that, like in any part of everyday life.
Rule #1 from the Rules of Conduct: (http://us.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-agreements/lineage-2-rules-of-conduct.html)
While playing Lineage II, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.
I'm not sure how picking up drops falls under the category of "defrauding".
I'm not sure how picking up drops falls under the category of "defrauding".
By spending time on doing something, the "something" gets value from the time spent on it .. time is value you know, and therefor the value of an instance should be paid off with the loot from the raidboss.
By making people believe that they are joining the instance, ie. Istina .. and hence will get something out of it (items, adena, etc.) .. but in the end it was all a setup from 1 person that just wanted it all to himself but needed the help from other players to kill the instance mobs/rb's.
By making people believe that they are joining the instance, ie. Istina .. and hence will get something out of it (items, adena, etc.)
Was there a promise to receive something if the raid was successful? I've done lots of raids where I received exactly nothing. That doesn't mean fraud was involved.
.. but in the end it was all a setup from 1 person that just wanted it all to himself but needed the help from other players to kill the instance mobs/rb's.
Are you the person that the OP is talking about?
Was there a promise to receive something if the raid was successful? I've done lots of raids where I received exactly nothing. That doesn't mean fraud was involved.
If party loot is set at Random there isn't much you can do if you don't get anything. If set on Finders Keepers it's their own fault to join the party and go for the raidboss. All I'm saying is that "crying for lost pixels" isn't exactly the right term to use, since all people from the same party did their effort to get part of the loot that's been dropped from the boss.
That 1 person takes it all and disappears, that's just bad luck and a sign of lacking commitment towards the party that helped him getting the items.
Are you the person that the OP is talking about?
my chars are all under 90, so how would that even be possible? Turning the discussion towards me as a person isn't exactly a bright idea!
Maybe,but it sure makes sense doesn't it? Why would you defend dishonest behavior otherwise? Given the GM don't care,but still.
Either my english skills sucks as usual, or otherwise it could be yours?
I'm not sure, - but WHERE did I defend dishonest behavior in my posts?
I linked the Rules of Agreement, stating the #1 rule that defrauding is not permitted in this game as a chance for him to send that in a ticket to the GM team to investigate the issue further.
I said that time is value, and for people who do not think that the effort people lay in this game is worth something - they must be mentally sick (hence the "crying over lost pixels" is a wrong term to use).
So what is the deal here? Accusing me for being the one who took his loot is just wayyyyy far out.
Of cause Mr. Troll .. my chars are all under 90, so how would that even be possible?
Wow, oversensitive much?
First, how would I have a clue as to what toons you have? Second, I only asked because you seem to know the intentions of the person who got the loot. So, either you know this person or are this person. Or you're just talking out of your *** about his intentions.
Turning the discussion towards me as a person isn't exactly a bright idea!
You're right. I should have just gone right to name-calling like you did.
First, how would I have a clue as to what toons you have? Second, I only asked because you seem to know the intentions of the person who got the loot. So, either you know this person or are this person. Or you're just talking out of your *** about his intentions.
You insinuated that I was the person that cheated him for loot, hence the wake up call for you. Is it really that hard to see what the fraudsters intentions was? Or do you need a police force to break the code for you?
You're right. I should have just gone right to name-calling like you did.
You insinuated that I was the person that cheated him for loot, hence the wake up call for you. Is it really that hard to see what the fraudsters intentions was? Or do you need a police force to break the code for you?
I don't make those kinds of assumptions unless I was there. I didn't insinuate anything. I asked a question since you seemed to know exactly what happened and what was in the mind of the person. You took it as an accusation. I can't help you with that.
I'm on the side of OP and have been all the way thru this topic. But it seems that some people are just here to discourage other people from making posts here, since all they get from it is accusations, insinuations and lectures about grammar, how stupid they are and why not to contact NCsoft about their problems, "because they don't care" etc.
I'm on the side of OP and have been all the way thru this topic. But it seems that some people are just here to discourage other people from making posts here, since all they get from it is accusations, insinuations and lectures about grammar, how stupid they are and why not to contact NCsoft about their problems, "because they don't care" etc.
You should contact NC, the forum community can't do anything about your problem. If you can't type so others can comprehend what nonsense you're barfing up then yup some of us will discourage it. It's not that we don't care, it's that we've seen it over and over and over and over. Well you get the point.
Now... do people finally understand that this is not fraud (since there was no promise of loot) and that GMs can't be involved because "it's a matter that must be solved in-game"?
The correct word should be scam. But either way, doing Istina with untrustworthy people isn't the most brilliant idea one can have.
This is no different than the player who paid for buffs or power leveling and got nothing he paid for. It's your own risk and fault. NC will not do a thing about it.
Now... do people finally understand that this is not fraud (since there was no promise of loot) and that GMs can't be involved because "it's a matter that must be solved in-game"?
The correct word should be scam. But either way, doing Istina with untrustworthy people isn't the most brilliant idea one can have.
What did I lose, 's is ownership or would be who is. So no loss there. Look up the word whos if you don't believe me, and see how it was used.
Scam and fraud are pretty much the same. And yes we know the gm's won't do anything, the only person who looks like might have thought that is the op, and that is not known 100 percent for sure.
I think the whole topic is a misunderstanding of rules, because also at one time there was a rule that you could not keep killing someone over and over, but gm's would also say get a clan or friends, it's apart of the game.
And as far as I can see, is that OP didn't even look for help from NCsoft's side as he knew this wouldn't go far.
I tried to open an ingame petition, i saw a category bad players-> fraud, but then the game said it was not working!
Only because the petition system isn't functional. Otherwise he would have. I still find it "interesting" that someone who is the OP's level wouldn't know these things.
You can see the frauds inside l2 as a way of teaching you how to adopt with the frauds in real life too.
In the older days of paytoplay game,you could make shouts about scammers in aden/giran,warn all people you knew in other clans,so the person who would decide to scam would know that he would have low chances of playing in server with that toon again(people could find him on xp and pk him,no clan accept him ect).When the transfer between servers started,there were cases of BIG scams from people that were boting a support class,joined a big clan that would do epic raids and waited to find the right moment some time in deep night when all were tired and sleepy and had lags and boxes geting dc,to go pikup the valakas,bsoe,sell valakas for real money and make 2k euro.
Nowdays with currect up to 90 system in some weeks and no pay,nothing troubles the guy who cares only to take loot to pikup and bsoe to keep creatin accounts and toons for that. Only joining a good clan and constant will elliminate the fraud on a raid.
About fraud in l2,even npcs do frauds :p
Most of them say they will give you a reward ''maybe'',you grind to get the items needed then speak to npc and get 1000 adena or a box that is empty(...) and npc asks u to bring more items and this time he will give you the reward(yea sure).I had lost 1 bilion once on the luxury shop of giran trying to get a cute agathion,the npc said he was selling this agathion and i had to pay with adena and some items,i could choose which agathion i wanted,tried dozen of times and never got it LOL.
There's a mob in den of evil that if you hit he says to you,''let me go,dont kill me and i will give you 10m adena'',once i let it go to see what happens and when mob went far away from me he turned and told me '' haha,you believed i would give 10m?what a noob''
This is another thread where people are getting confused about the difference between NCWest not being being able to do something and NCWest not wanting to do something. There are similar games where the administration does act on these sorts of things from time to time, you do it when you want your players to be happy. After all, they're just pixels. The word can't in regards to what NCWest does is being thrown around too much by people on these forums. Stop giving NCWest so much credit.
first of all, thank you for bringing this topic to 3 pages already! Maybe more ppl will read my thoughts!
i'm concerned however by the amount of pl who just read the first lines, i thought at least the PS would be a factor to read all my post! Anyway, for those who got my point, which is how the community reacts to fraud, what atarth (http://boards.lineage2.com/member.php?u=139239) wrote (about ppl pking, not able to get a clan etc) is what a new and "healthy" community does. What is happening now, an we can all clearly see from the posts, is a neglected, corrupted and "old" player base, that stopped giving attention to such stuff, just because "noone cares". I'm ok with that.
Regarding Istina, as many of u know, takes 2 parties to make the raid, so "do it with your CP" doesn't help a lot. In fact, there are cp scammers not just playes (5 players from cp, looking for other 9 players to scam), same thing that was popular with freya and frintezza. To have a clan with 14 90+ ppl of all classes, all online at the same time is ideal, but that is just a small percentage of clans right now (and i play on Naia, not a small server).
There's a mob in den of evil that if you hit he says to you,''let me go,dont kill me and i will give you 10m adena'',once i let it go to see what happens and when mob went far away from me he turned and told me '' haha,you believed i would give 10m?what a noob''Risking of making a fool of myshel, i must ask, is there such a mob for real? :P
What is happening now, an we can all clearly see from the posts, is a neglected, corrupted and "old" player base, that stopped giving attention to such stuff, just because "noone cares". I'm ok with that.
Free endless account creation doesn't let you spot the new and old scammers easily. Do you have an error-free method for this?
Regarding Istina, as many of u know, takes 2 parties to make the raid, so "o it with your CP" doesn't help a lot. In fact, there are cp scammers not just playes (5 players from cp, looking for other 9 players to scam), same thing that was popular with freya and frintezza. To have a clan with 14 90+ ppl of all classes, all online at the same time is ideal, but that is just a small percentage of clans right now (and i play on Naia, not a small server).
CPs also pay randoms to enter Istina and disconnect so they can raid her without interferences [secondhand information]. Is it fraud?
Risking of making a fool of myshel, is there such a mob for real? :P
It really exists. I've seen it in action.
Some days ago i joined a random Istina party at Naia (level 90+ boss with good drops, mostly done by 93+ ppl). I knew i would regret doing it since party entry level was 90 or 91 and many ppl were still in immortal gear etc. Anyway, after 1 hour we managed to kill the rb and started the proccess of distributing the loot. Then, the one who picked the drops... took the money and ran!
This is not the 1st time this happens (especially at this rb) but why is it so common nowadays and how can it be stopped (given that as game progresses, it's going to be more popular raid, like Zaken)?
I tried to open an ingame petition, i saw a category bad players-> fraud, but then the game said it was not working! I didn't bother to open a ticket or anything, i think it would be a waste of time (or wouldn't it?)
So as far as the players are concerned, what do we do about fraud? Personaly, i'm against opening party rooms with titles for example "Sace Istina scammer" etc. I prefer keeping the party matching clean. In addition, everyone could acuse anyone for fraud, just because he didn't get a drop.
The biggest issue or me is that some scammers are not "jumping" out of nowhere, but are "known" players and belong to active clans. So how would u ppl handle a situation like that?
PS. For those who just read the first lines and ant to answer "QQ cause u didn't get the drops", please read the rest of the post before u make a fool of yourselves!
NCsoft cannot protect against player-made agreements nor promises between each other (http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=227837), thus we cannot guarantee that we can offer assistance in this unfortunate situation. It is always worthwhile, however, to ask the GMs, as each case is different. GMs are not on the forums. The in-game petition client was closed in the Tauti update (this was in the patch notes). You can reach the support team 24/7 (https://lineage2.custhelp.com/app/ask/) through the website support form.
Thread locked for excessive arguing and derailment.