Hi everyone, i'm posting this thread (which maybe rather lengthy) in hopes of figuring out where to go with my newly awakened Sigel Knight. I've noticed that i dont hit near as hard as other knights and especially in pvp, this is frustrating.
I get the idea that vorpal and +6 immortal is a good way to go till 95 and armor is so...linear in L2 now there's no need to explain that but what i'm curious about is what else should i aim for? which dyes, accessories, and skills to OE?
Ingame I am only lucky in the friends i've managed to keep from c2 till today. I wouldn't bet on OE'ing armor or weapons or lucky drops. So, i need to boost dmg other ways...
no lol when i say newly awakened i mean "newly" i've got basic gear that gets me by...and like i said i am not the luckiest player when it comes to drops and success so I typically sell anything that'll make me a penny ingame, I think it gives me hope to buy an epic or something that'll put me in any higher brackets
There are mostly 2 different settings for tanks.
Tanks with +CON build and a rare dmg setting aka +STR, OE Weapon with 2x SA and 300 ele.
First of all many players will do more dmg/recive lesser dmg in some cases:
a: they have 3*60++ or 3*120 ele resist and you have 0 or only 150 attr. on your weapon
b: OE Armor/jewels to boost pdef/mef
c: Double SA on their Weapon, 2x SA incr. pvp dmg
d: Old S80 Weapons (OE Vesper Cutter Focus 300 is kinda cheap and has nice dmg output)
e: better dyes. Be it +CON for higher hp pool, +STR for more dmg
f: Better/more Buffs (for example the Turtle Buff which is a nice patk/pdef boost)
g: Different Armor (with my Rare Vesper Noble Hvy Armor i have better dmg output as with Imo, TW, Seraph)
I recommend you to get a Vorpal/Immo Amror with element via the AH or from some random ppl that sell their normal armor/parts to upgrade theirs to TW, Seraph.
And as Weapon, well take any weapon with Health for aoe xping. And if you really wanna do 1 vs 1 pvp also get a Vesper Weapon with Focus and 300 ele.
In the end all depends how much money you want/can spend.
There are mostly 2 different settings for tanks.
Tanks with +CON build and a rare dmg setting aka +STR, OE Weapon with 2x SA and 300 ele.
First of all many players will do more dmg/recive lesser dmg in some cases:
a: they have 3*60++ or 3*120 ele resist and you have 0 or only 150 attr. on your weapon
b: OE Armor/jewels to boost pdef/mef
c: Double SA on their Weapon, 2x SA incr. pvp dmg
d: Old S80 Weapons (OE Vesper Cutter Focus 300 is kinda cheap and has nice dmg output)
e: better dyes. Be it +CON for higher hp pool, +STR for more dmg
f: Better/more Buffs (for example the Turtle Buff which is a nice patk/pdef boost)
g: Different Armor (with my Rare Vesper Noble Hvy Armor i have better dmg output as with Imo, TW, Seraph)
I recommend you to get a Vorpal/Immo Amror with element via the AH or from some random ppl that sell their normal armor/parts to upgrade theirs to TW, Seraph.
And as Weapon, well take any weapon with Health for aoe xping. And if you really wanna do 1 vs 1 pvp also get a Vesper Weapon with Focus and 300 ele.
In the end all depends how much money you want/can spend.
i'm liking that info thanks, quick question on the DYES? what do you put the minus on? DEX? i thought that was for crits and ATK spd?
Again a money thing. I know a crazy dps addicted Sigel that uses +5 str +1dex dyes. I would go with a cheap round of +con - w/e dyes, cos the Tank role is to Tank not to deal tons of dmg.
(My Shilen Templar is only lvl 80 w/o any dyes, but i know other Tanks and many use different settings)
yeah sadly i just removed a +con dye -str i didn't like what i was doing for dmg i might try out -dex. i definitely need to get some help focusing on my weapon and maybe have 2 sets of armor 1 for pvp 1 for pve we'll see lol
Actually, I have used both builds (+Con HP Build and +Str DMG Build). Right now I am using the damage setup:
+15 Str +3 Dex Dyes
+5 Seraph Hvy Set (Attack Type)
+8 Spectre Avenger with Dual SA
+6 Power Shirt
Castle Cloak
Boss Jewels
My Pattack is roughly 5k With Knights and just shy of 6k with Warrior.
Pdef is around 6k.
First off, this setup is insanely expensive.
Second, While I do really good damage for a tank it is still relatively weak compared to a real DD.
Third, you will lose to con build tanks in Olympiad most of the time.
Having said that, it is still a really fun build and I get a decent amount of kills in PvP but I'll never be a DD.
If you don't have tons of adena (I assume you don't by your post) I would go for a +4 Immortal Hvy Set (defense type). Try to get all pieces to 60/60/60 defense. Get Ceremoy of Chaos jewels (reasonably cheap but will take awhile) and finally, get a one handed weap with HP. If you are on Chronos or Naia you can get an S80 weapon with HP Sa and 300 element for reasonably cheap. If you are on any other server use your mentee cert to get a Requiem Cutter and get Health on it (SA's on event weapons are significantly cheaper than other types). With that basic gear you can pretty much tank anything within your level range.
no lol when i say newly awakened i mean "newly" i've got basic gear that gets me by...and like i said i am not the luckiest player when it comes to drops and success so I typically sell anything that'll make me a penny ingame, I think it gives me hope to buy an epic or something that'll put me in any higher brackets
Yeah yeah, I asked because damage also comes from +300 attribute on weapon. Tauti's attribute system is quite unforgiving towards people with less than 300 attribute on a weapon.
I wouldn't give much hopes on getting good dmg till you hit 93~95 (what level are u?). Also don't forget dmg from tank comes from skills and reflect.
i'm lvl 86 and i play very casually
If you're casual then I wouldn't concern yourself with pvp builds on a tank. To be a factor in pvp you need to be high level, and you need to sink a metric **** ton of adena into your toon. Also, a lot of gear that you would 120 or 300 won't sell for much by the time you're done with it. Save your money, farm events best you can, and level up. If you just want to play for pvp then make a DD perma red and an enchanter to buff it. So an archer or a mage and just go to town on people. If you really want to play the tank then concentrate on xping for now. Just my two cents.
Sigel is all about tanking not dealing damage.If u wanted a DD u should have gone for feoh/yul. An attack type tank like Rodah is a few hits from feoh.Your purpose is to protect not kill.
I recommend the following build :
Dyes : + CON - DEX (if its lvl 5 giant/ancient/legendary even better).More CON means more shield defence success rate, more HP and more survilability overall.Tank doesnt need DEX
Armor/Jewels : If u can pull off an immortal set +6 it is more than enough to take u to 95 (even better than twilight +3). No need to mention put all the attributes u get ur hands on to armor first.Defence type. As for jewels try making an immortal set +4.Later if u get better jewels replace them
Weapon : This doesnt play a major role on tanks.I have seen tanks running around with C grade augmented with reflect and killing like crazy. I suggest finishing armor first with attri/enchant and then go for weapon.Anyway tanks do most dmg with reflect and skills, not auto attacks.So u can run around with no grade :D Skill dmg isnt affected from patk.For SA go always for Health.
To sum up ur role in pt is to take as much punishment as possible not deliver it.Thats the role of DDs.
CON does 3 things that is important for tanks
1. increase shield defense/blocks
2. increase resist physical debufs
3. increase HP pool
the rare DPS tank builds require to compensate for that by having top line epics, +6 armor sets and max skill oe etc. which is why ppl warn for the adena cost involved..
@Rodah, just a fyi but it's possible to have 10,5+k patt without having a castle cloak on a DPS build tank but it requires insane gear, my tank set up gives me 9+k pdef.. I use +6 MW Vesper Noble for dps (10,5+k pdef/~5k pdef) and +6 Defense Seraph Hvy for real tanking (~6,5k patt/9+k pdef).. not going to post all I got to get these stats but the fact one of my gear is a +15 Bless Apo Cutter (just shy of 900 patt which makes it better then even +6 R99) should give you an idea of the rest ;)
how that i've had a couple days to get in and play the class i can see how dmg isn't going to be my strongest factor. Now i'm focusing on gear and i'm torn, my first point of tension; blunt or sword? second blessed +6 immortal or save the insane money for twilight? which jewels should be my focus? CoC jewels or AH?
jewels = w/e is cheapest as for non pvp mdef isnt that important
armor = just get something cheap until you can afford TW, unless +6 immo set is cheaper then that as you will love the mp regen bonus of +6 set.
weapon = you could get a cheap c grade HP weapon and be done with it.. don't go blunt though as those have way lower dps then swords..
Now that I'm 87 and have been fighting in open world and in CoC I've noticed that there's no difference in the blunt 1h vs. the 1h swords but i do notice a huge difference in crit rate. That was easy to understand after i visited the main site and read up on all the attribute changes and stuff. I got 150+ on my weapon and i'm working on getting it higher but I've decided to stick with the 1h blunt since they get a crit rate increase in GD coming "very soon" and i'm a LE. Tats are going to be important to dmg and everything else but that's insane to think about getting at this point because of how random they are or how much ppl want for them....that goes for gear all together too Twilight is double the price of Seraph in the AH for unidentified items and they have exactly the same effect as regular items when checked....
Being a tank now in L2 is awesome and the game has improved a lot since its retail days! Now I'm buckling down for the long haul to 95+ I think that's where the game will be a prime game again. I'm generally pretty happy with the tank class and also am excited for the new subclass system and skill along with the PVE increase coming...
Now if only i could figure out how to take down Aeore Healers with no problem :)
the 1h blunt since they get a crit rate increase in GD coming "very soon"
As fas as i know blunts on a tank are only good when they are used together with knight frenzy due to crit dmg bonus plus they have their own crit dmg SA that goes even more on +4.
I read the patch notes but didnt see anywhere that blunts get a crit rate increase, or maybe i missed it. Can u point out where u saw it if its easy for you? ty :)
That will actually be pretty huge considering most crit rate modifiers are % based.
As I stated earlier I am using a blunt weapon and the back story to that is that I got a specter blunt as a drop and just for kicks got it to +8 using regular scrolls. At that point I started using it because the P Attack was vastly superior to the +6 Apoc Cutter I had been using. I used some destruction scrolls and got it to +12 and it is a pretty formidable weapon but I would rather have a +12 Spec Cutter.
As it stands right now I have 309 Crit Rate with my blunt but I literally have ever crit rate modifer available (including Istina Ring). I am thinking I will get close to 400 when Glory days hits with some of the changes coming.
Actually, I have used both builds (+Con HP Build and +Str DMG Build). Right now I am using the damage setup:
+15 Str +3 Dex Dyes
+5 Seraph Hvy Set (Attack Type)
+8 Spectre Avenger with Dual SA
+6 Power Shirt
Castle Cloak
Boss Jewels
My Pattack is roughly 5k With Knights and just shy of 6k with Warrior.
Pdef is around 6k.
First off, this setup is insanely expensive.
Second, While I do really good damage for a tank it is still relatively weak compared to a real DD.
Third, you will lose to con build tanks in Olympiad most of the time.
Having said that, it is still a really fun build and I get a decent amount of kills in PvP but I'll never be a DD.
If you don't have tons of adena (I assume you don't by your post) I would go for a +4 Immortal Hvy Set (defense type). Try to get all pieces to 60/60/60 defense. Get Ceremoy of Chaos jewels (reasonably cheap but will take awhile) and finally, get a one handed weap with HP. If you are on Chronos or Naia you can get an S80 weapon with HP Sa and 300 element for reasonably cheap. If you are on any other server use your mentee cert to get a Requiem Cutter and get Health on it (SA's on event weapons are significantly cheaper than other types). With that basic gear you can pretty much tank anything within your level range.
if u loose to a +con tank with that setup ur just bad. i beat 97/98 tanks with lv1 Str dyes bound twilight set (not even 3x60) and a focus apoc 300 sword
if u loose to a +con tank with that setup ur just bad. i beat 97/98 tanks with lv1 Str dyes bound twilight set (not even 3x60) and a focus apoc 300 sword
You need to include more information about these "97/98" you are beating in order to qualify your statement. Otherwise, why even bother making a highly misleading comment.....
As far as my setup goes now, there are only 2-3 tanks that can beat me on my server and that is because they have passive and active reflect damage (I don't).
So I will amend my previous statement about con tanks beating str tanks and say that gear has much more to do with oly fights than dye setup (obviously) but thankls for the constructive imput connex. You could have said something insulting and misleading but instead you added valuable information to this thread.
u said "most of the times" which is incorrect
my tank is 97 with 0 skills oed, +3 3x60 serpah hvy ,just a frint, lv1 str dyes x3
immortal shirt with hp, no belt at all and apoc cutter 2x SA +4 300! no castle cape either nor any perma talisman.. oh! i have active reflect but most of the other tanks have hellfire talisman!
u said "most of the times" which is incorrect
my tank is 97 with 0 skills oed, +3 3x60 serpah hvy ,just a frint, lv1 str dyes x3
immortal shirt with hp, no belt at all and apoc cutter 2x SA +4 300! no castle cape either nor any perma talisman.. oh! i have active reflect but most of the other tanks have hellfire talisman!
Without trying to be rude let me say that the implication from your statement is that you can beat 97/98 tanks consistently, otherwise why even make the comment?
Or to put it another way, I would not make a statement such as, "I can beat 97/98 healers in oly with just TW and apoc gear" if I only beat them occasionally. Making such a statement would imply that I can win a majority (or at least half) of the time. This would seem to be the common understanding of such a statement.
Anyway, perhaps you can answer a question about reflect resistance from talismans/oly belts. I am debating on whether I should invest in trying for a hellfire (or better) talisman. How does the reflect resistance work? The tanks I fight have roughly 45-50% reflect (boss necklace, 10% passive, passive/active, and possible evas rune). How much would a Hellfire Talisman and the Mysterious Oly belt (3 day belt) resist?
Without trying to be rude let me say that the implication from your statement is that you can beat 97/98 tanks consistently, otherwise why even make the comment?
Or to put it another way, I would not make a statement such as, "I can beat 97/98 healers in oly with just TW and apoc gear" if I only beat them occasionally. Making such a statement would imply that I can win a majority (or at least half) of the time. This would seem to be the common understanding of such a statement.
Anyway, perhaps you can answer a question about reflect resistance from talismans/oly belts. I am debating on whether I should invest in trying for a hellfire (or better) talisman. How does the reflect resistance work? The tanks I fight have roughly 45-50% reflect (boss necklace, 10% passive, passive/active, and possible evas rune). How much would a Hellfire Talisman and the Mysterious Oly belt (3 day belt) resist?
the 3day belt iirc has 5% skill p attk and 6% pvp pdef
on the talisman i have no clue on that since i dont even have lvl1 on that tank :/
if we talking oly, a DD tank shouldnt lose against an Con setup tank.
for example i was lv94 in +6 Immortal event def set +4 apo avenger haste +11 str dyes Zaken earring S grade belt w/pvp defense, no Talisman of infinity or higher. with Horn/guitar/harp/lute/knight/btb vs a lv99 Tank in eternal set +r99 sword+shield on Horn/drum/harp/lute/knight/focus/dw/reflect from hellknight+augment reflect
Btw I am Orc Tank , he is Human Tank
I was kinda like this is gona end bad but somehow my opponent used his uds/knights frenzy before i used mine, so i countered his, dealed dmg aslong as i had Mp then i tho maybe i done more dmg lawl and i started running for my Life till my sigel knight reflect skill came back up and i got some mp to use, ran back in dmg some more and ran away again. I survived and Won the Fight overtime. Done 5000 more dmg then he did to me.
I wonder how i did this, cuz hes 5 lvls above me and has better equiptment and better skills+ perma reflect dmg :eek:
some ideas ?
Now i am 95 and i am ready to kick some more *** :D
I am pretty sure reflect is calculated into total damage done for oly tank fights. As it stands right now I can win 90% of the time versus every tank on my server.
Reflect resistance is pretty huge now. I am beating tanks with both active and passive reflects because my reflect resistance is about 25% (I have neither ATM, still trying for active, 2500 LS used with no luck).
After some testing reflect resist seems to resist a % of total reflected damage received. So for example, the really strong tanks I fight have about 40% reflect (Active/Passive, Evas, Boss Necklace, 10% passive) so if I hit them for 1k I usually reflect back 400, my reflect drops that down to 300 which lowers there total damage on me. 100 less damage may not seem like a lot but it adds up throughout the match.
Back on topic, I will post a screenshot of my tank with buffed stats later on so the OP, and others that are curious, can get an idea of what route they want to go.
wath about sa? i just buyed a blssed specter cutter, and i dont know wath dual sa shoud i put. healt and focus or healt and haste. i google it but i didnt find so much information
haste.. many other ways to improve ur crit rate..whell thats true. many guys use focus healt, but theyr cheep on ofering infos. as far as i read crit rate didnt influence crit on skills..
I am not really a fan of the +Con build. I had +15 Con on my tank but switched to +15 Str.
For PvP I don't believe you need the extra Con to survive. My motto has always been "tanks are tanks because of PDEF, NOT HP." I am a pure Str build tank with attack type heavy (130 Str / 86 Con) and I hardly ever die in PvP. I do however get alot of kills. I skill crit alot, dealing 3k damage to heavy users, 5k to light, and sometimes as much as 9k to robes. This is on 97+ toons as well, not lowbies. I should also mention that I get a decent amount of 2x time UDs which is really nice.
I honestly can't think of a situation in PvP where I would need the extra 10k HP. Hell I don't even use and HP weap. If I die it is because I have used all UDs and am outnumbered 5 to 1 and even then I can usually get away before I get dropped.
I am not really a fan of the +Con build. I had +15 Con on my tank but switched to +15 Str.
For PvP I don't believe you need the extra Con to survive. My motto has always been "tanks are tanks because of PDEF, NOT HP." I am a pure Str build tank with attack type heavy (130 Str / 86 Con) and I hardly ever die in PvP. I do however get alot of kills. I skill crit alot, dealing 3k damage to heavy users, 5k to light, and sometimes as much as 9k to robes. This is on 97+ toons as well, not lowbies. I should also mention that I get a decent amount of 2x time UDs which is really nice.
I honestly can't think of a situation in PvP where I would need the extra 10k HP. Hell I don't even use and HP weap. If I die it is because I have used all UDs and am outnumbered 5 to 1 and even then I can usually get away before I get dropped.
So in my humble opinion, Str > Con for PvP.
Can u show us your gears ? maybe with it I can see the difference between +Con build and +Str Build .
And i think in this patch tank strong by shield not pdef .
Can u show us your gears ? maybe with it I can see the difference between +Con build and +Str Build .
And i think in this patch tank strong by shield not pdef .
Well yeah, shield defense is why tanks are so strong not necessarily Pdef but it's basically the same thing right :) (defense > HP).
I have an SS of my stats on previous page but P Attack is alot more now because I blessed my weapon. But here you go:
+6 Seraph Hvy Set all 120/120/120
+6 Power Shirt
+6 Seraph Belt PvP Skill Attack (when I don't have temp CoC Belt which is rare)
+5 Istina Ring
+5 Istina Earring
+5 Istina Necklace
+5 Octavis Ring
+5 Octavis Earring (yes it's bonus is crap but M Def is insane, I have CoC Stun and frint for oly or as needed)
+12 Blessed Spectre Avenger 837/515 (+1 Str Augment)
+ Str Hair Accessory
Castle Cloak
there is no point in going over 100 con, as the shield def rate bonus increase is negligable after that (82% block rate at 100 con, like 84% block rate at 120 con or something dumb) and you dont really need the extra hp. i guess if all u did was PvE/raid +++con wouldnt be bad, but i still wouldn't go over 100 and if u ever want to fight another player the lack of str will be horrific.
+str is the way to go on tats, including a +str accessory.
Well yeah, shield defense is why tanks are so strong not necessarily Pdef but it's basically the same thing right :) (defense > HP).
I have an SS of my stats on previous page but P Attack is alot more now because I blessed my weapon. But here you go:
+6 Seraph Hvy Set all 120/120/120
+6 Power Shirt
+6 Seraph Belt PvP Skill Attack (when I don't have temp CoC Belt which is rare)
+5 Istina Ring
+5 Istina Earring
+5 Istina Necklace
+5 Octavis Ring
+5 Octavis Earring (yes it's bonus is crap but M Def is insane, I have CoC Stun and frint for oly or as needed)
+12 Blessed Spectre Avenger 837/515 (+1 Str Augment)
+ Str Hair Accessory
Castle Cloakblessed seraph set?