Question: Testing to see if WIT affects the land rate of debuffs. Scenario would involve any class toon with magic debuffs vs another character with appropriate level jewels and standard buffs. Both toons lvl 85, but the defending toon could be non-awakened to avoid the mesmerizing resist mechanic of awakened toons. Casting x amount of the same debuff with standard wit for that class, and then maxing WIT out and repeating the test to see if there is any difference.
Reason: GOD patch notes indicate that con/men govern abnormal status (physical/mental respectively); however, there is nothing that clearly indicates what affects debuff land rate. Some speculate that magical accuracy (governed by wit) plays a part, or perhaps some other hidden function. This test would clear up the speculation and ambiguity.Character A: Level 85 Human Wynn Summoner
Weapon: Apocalypse Buster (Acumen SA)
Armor: Twilight Robe set (Recovery-type)
Buffs: Heavenly Cocktail (All 6 ISS Melody Buffs)
Skill Used: Mark of Void Lvl 1
Character B: Level 85 Human Duelist
Weapon: Vesper Dualsword
Armor: Vorpal Heavy Armor
Jewels: Vorpal Jewels
Buffs: Heavenly Cocktail (All 6 ISS Melody Buffs)
Results:
Character A WIT: 80 (Magic Accuracy: 196)
Test 1: Mark of Void - 9/10 with 1 resist
Test 2: Mark of Void - 8/10 with 2 resists
Character A WIT: 85 (Magic Accuracy: 197)
Test 1: Mark of Void - 8/10 with 2 resists
Test 2: Mark of Void - 10/10 with no resists
Character A WIT: 90 (Magic Accuracy: 198)
Test 1: Mark of Void - 9/10 with 1 resist
Test 2: Mark of Void - 9/10 with 1 resist
Character A WIT: 95 (Magic Accuracy: 199)
Test 1: Mark of Void - 9/10 with 1 resist
Test 2: Mark of Void - 9/10 with 1 resist
Character A WIT: 100 (Magic Accuracy: 200)
Test 1: Mark of Void - 9/10 with 1 resist
Test 2: Mark of Void - 10/10 with no resists
Character A WIT: 105 (Magic Accuracy: 201)
Test 1: Mark of Void - 10/10 with no resists
Test 2: Mark of Void - 9/10 with 1 resist
Character A WIT: 110 (Magic Accuracy: 202)
Test 1: Mark of Void - 10/10 with no resists
Test 2: Mark of Void - 10/10 with no resists
Character A WIT: 115 (Magic Accuracy: 203)
Test 1: Mark of Void - 10/10 with no resists
Test 2: Mark of Void - 10/10 with no resists
*The results may be different when the defending character is awakened*
Maybe a debuff with not so good landing rate (Giant's root, sleep) could be used to make differences more clear. Mark seems to have a good landing rate.
I think root is a physical debuff, so it might be unaffected by this (I know it says magical on the skill, but the hold effect is supposed to be P. Mez.).
Also do we know if it's WIT itself or magical accuracy affecting the debuff land rate?
I think root is a physical debuff, so it might be unaffected by this (I know it says magical on the skill, but the hold effect is supposed to be P. Mez.).
Also do we know if it's WIT itself or magical accuracy affecting the debuff land rate?
Completely agree with you. It is a magical skill causing a physical debuff. We don't really know what affects it. Maybe it turns out that WIT does affect it as well. WHo knows?
I think root is a physical debuff, so it might be unaffected by this (I know it says magical on the skill, but the hold effect is supposed to be P. Mez.).
Also do we know if it's WIT itself or magical accuracy affecting the debuff land rate?
It is the : M. Def. Rate (not shown in stats but active all the time just like evasion)
WIT = M. Critical Rate, M. Accuracy, M. Evasion, Casting Spd., M. Def. Rate.
So it is WIT alone that affects landing rate of curses. It is affecting the magical defence rate of enemy (debuff defence) while making you more powerful at avoiding debuffs.
More wit = higher landing rate on enemy for curses AND at the same time higher defense rate for curses for yourself.
Completely agree with you. It is a magical skill causing a physical debuff. We don't really know what affects it. Maybe it turns out that WIT does affect it as well. WHo knows?
If it is a magical skill then the land rate is based on the M. Def. Rate, no matter if the result is physical or magical.
MEN & CON make magical & physical skills to be resisted = to fail ( to do 2 times less damage, or lower debuff time in half).
It is the : M. Def. Rate (not shown in stats but active all the time just like evasion)
WIT = M. Critical Rate, M. Accuracy, M. Evasion, Casting Spd., M. Def. Rate.
So it is WIT alone that affects landing rate of curses. It is affecting the magical defence rate of enemy (debuff defence) while making you more powerful at avoiding debuffs.
More wit = higher landing rate on enemy for curses AND at the same time higher defense rate for curses for yourself.
If it is a magical skill then the land rate is based on the M. Def. Rate, no matter if the result is physical or magical.
MEN & CON make magical & physical skills to be resisted = to fail ( to do 2 times less damage, or lower debuff time in half).
I can agree that WIT affects landing chances but not defense rate against debuffs. Magical defence rate (at least the way I percieve it) is what makes normal magical attacks do less damage (half/fail). Debuffs defense (landing or not) is clearly assigned to CON and MEN:
I can agree that WIT affects landing chances but not defense rate against debuffs. Magical defence rate (at least the way I percieve it) is what makes normal magical attacks do less damage (half/fail). Debuffs defense (landing or not) is clearly assigned to CON and MEN:
One more question: you mention the Magic Accuracy in your test, but does this stat matter for landing debuffs? I always thought its just for normal magical attacks.
If it helps on landing debuffs, this new subclass skill could be very helpful:
Sub P. Accuracy/M. Accuracy Increase
Skill Level 1 - P. Accuracy +2, M. Accuracy +2 [Certificate 1]
Skill Level 2 - P. Accuracy +4, M. Accuracy +4 [Certificate 1]
Skill Level 3 - P. Accuracy +6, M. Accuracy +6 [Certificate 1]
Skill Level 4 - P. Accuracy +8, M. Accuracy +8 [Certificate 1]
One more question: you mention the Magic Accuracy in your test, but does this stat matter for landing debuffs? I always thought its just for normal magical attacks.
If it helps on landing debuffs, this new subclass skill could be very helpful:
Sub P. Accuracy/M. Accuracy Increase
Skill Level 1 - P. Accuracy +2, M. Accuracy +2 [Certificate 1]
Skill Level 2 - P. Accuracy +4, M. Accuracy +4 [Certificate 1]
Skill Level 3 - P. Accuracy +6, M. Accuracy +6 [Certificate 1]
Skill Level 4 - P. Accuracy +8, M. Accuracy +8 [Certificate 1]
Thanks!
Magic accuracy or physical accuracy doesn't help at landing debuffs.
Also Magic evasion & power evasion doesn't protect against debuffs.
The WIT has this hidden stat of M. Def rate. If you have it low curses will land easier on you. If you have it high curses will fail.
After the spell lands MEN will make the spell to be resisted or not.
From what AndreasK said it results that there is no way of WIT influencing landing rate.
He agrees it affects landing chances but he doesn't say from where the effect is coming.
So better magical defense rate also means BETTER LANDING RATE as opposed to fail/half damage for lower magical defence rate!
"I can agree that WIT affects landing chances but not defense rate against debuffs. Magical defence rate (at least the way I percieve it) is what makes normal magical attacks do less damage (half/fail). Debuffs defense (landing or not) is clearly assigned to CON and MEN:"
Magic accuracy or physical accuracy doesn't help at landing debuffs.
I'm not so certain about that, has never been tested afaik.
@Juji: Could you run the exactly same test again, but instead changing WIT change only the MAGIC ACCURACY stat?
Maybe it actually *does* play a role in landing debuffs successfully. Would interesting when considering new subclass skills after the update.
Magic accuracy or physical accuracy doesn't help at landing debuffs.
Also Magic evasion & power evasion doesn't protect against debuffs.
The WIT has this hidden stat of M. Def rate. If you have it low curses will land easier on you. If you have it high curses will fail.
After the spell lands MEN will make the spell to be resisted or not.
From what AndreasK said it results that there is no way of WIT influencing landing rate.
He agrees it affects landing chances but he doesn't say from where the effect is coming.
So better magical defense rate also means BETTER LANDING RATE as opposed to fail/half damage for lower magical defence rate!
"I can agree that WIT affects landing chances but not defense rate against debuffs. Magical defence rate (at least the way I percieve it) is what makes normal magical attacks do less damage (half/fail). Debuffs defense (landing or not) is clearly assigned to CON and MEN:"
I am a bit confused about your post so let me clarify of what my opinion is:
-WIT increases magical accuracy. So when we have better results with increased WIT, we don't really know if this is because of higher WIT or higher M. accuracy. Therefor, Anothersorc's request is valid. Testing the same by increasing M. accuracy without icreasing WIT will reveal the truth (who is behind the increase in landing rate). My suggestion is to do it so with a skill that doesn't land so well as Mark did, in order to have more clear results.
-As I mentioned earlier, WIT doesn't affect resistance to debuffs (MEN does), just the rate of how often normal magical attacks fail/do less damage. Also, I doubt that if M. evasion has any role in resisting debuffs but it wouldn't hurt testing it a bit :)
Overall, the debuff system in GoD seems to be very complex and that fact that developers intend to simplify it can only be a good thing.
I am a bit confused about your post so let me clarify of what my opinion is:
-WIT increases magical accuracy. So when we have better results with increased WIT, we don't really know if this is because of higher WIT or higher M. accuracy. Therefor, Anothersorc's request is valid. Testing the same by increasing M. accuracy without icreasing WIT will reveal the truth (who is behind the increase in landing rate). My suggestion is to do it so with a skill that doesn't land so well as Mark did, in order to have more clear results.
-As I mentioned earlier, WIT doesn't affect resistance to debuffs (MEN does), just the rate of how often normal magical attacks fail/do less damage. Also, I doubt that if M. evasion has any role in resisting debuffs but it wouldn't hurt testing it a bit :)
Overall, the debuff system in GoD seems to be very complex and that fact that developers intend to simplify it can only be a good thing.
It's a little bit difficult to test just the Magic Accuracy alone because there is no simple way to increase it. For increasing stats like WIT, it is very easy because I have a command to do it. For Magic Accuracy, I need to rely on items to increase it. I do not think that will help with testing either since you guys want me to isolate a specific stat to see how it affects debuffs and I would need a huge increase to see that. The best thing I can do is ask the dev team exactly what does what, but it may take some time to get those answers. I'll see what I can do.
You don't have to do it right now. When Glory days update come on live servers, there is an option to get Physical/Magical accuracy increase bonus from subclasses (check Anothersorc's post, it is from patch notes). In fact at level 4 it increases M. accuracy more than you could achieve with a +35 WIT increase. That way you increase it, without increasing WIT and comparisons can be made. You could even try both; increasing WIT and using subclass skills, to test skills that are really hard to land.
I don't know if there's any limit on the bonus stats, but, for just the magic accuracy you could try with some massively over-enchanted (blessed) R grade+ gloves.
It's a little bit difficult to test just the Magic Accuracy alone because there is no simple way to increase it. For increasing stats like WIT, it is very easy because I have a command to do it. For Magic Accuracy, I need to rely on items to increase it. I do not think that will help with testing either since you guys want me to isolate a specific stat to see how it affects debuffs and I would need a huge increase to see that. The best thing I can do is ask the dev team exactly what does what, but it may take some time to get those answers. I'll see what I can do.
in game mechanics at its finest!
here is where in game experience pays off. nice testing Juji, but i think its a waste of time. as much as i love Juji's lab and what you do for us.
point is that it would exceed your possibilities. you would have to check different skills with mages against mages, melee and healers to see how the ballance from int/wit/men works out. in game mechanics suggest this since the beginning and for the same reason its all based on hear-saying.
greetings
edit: don't forget that many pre-awaken classes have various 'built-in' resistances based on con and men
It's a little bit difficult to test just the Magic Accuracy alone because there is no simple way to increase it. For increasing stats like WIT, it is very easy because I have a command to do it. For Magic Accuracy, I need to rely on items to increase it. I do not think that will help with testing either since you guys want me to isolate a specific stat to see how it affects debuffs and I would need a huge increase to see that. The best thing I can do is ask the dev team exactly what does what, but it may take some time to get those answers. I'll see what I can do.
Honestly, it would had been wonderful if the devs did that in the first place when GOD first came out. :)
WIT works the same way as evasion/accurasy , sometimes feoh misses on few spells thats cuz the player B evade it,magic accurasy helps your spells to not miss .
You cant say that WIT helps in success of the debuffs it just helps not to miss on them,when the spell doesnt miss MEN helps in ressisting the debuff
It's a little bit difficult to test just the Magic Accuracy alone because there is no simple way to increase it. For increasing stats like WIT, it is very easy because I have a command to do it. For Magic Accuracy, I need to rely on items to increase it. I do not think that will help with testing either since you guys want me to isolate a specific stat to see how it affects debuffs and I would need a huge increase to see that. The best thing I can do is ask the dev team exactly what does what, but it may take some time to get those answers. I'll see what I can do.
any word from the dev team how wit works? or the summoner dots work ?
I remember I read somewhere INT governs debuff rate :confused:
pre-GoD, maybe. but now I think debuff landing rate is mostly affected by the innate landrate of the skill itself, and the level of the caster vs. the receiver;
such as, if you are higher level than the target, likely that the debuff will land consistently if it has a good basic land rate; if you are lower level than the target you may have to try many times to land it (this is like for say, mark of lumi, which has a good land rate).
So...
While WIT influences the M.Accuracy, the M.Accuracy itself doesn't affect the land rate of de-buffs. Then, what's the point of adding WIT, other then increasing Casting Speed etc.?
No point to add wit at all. This is the 2nd worst stat in game after men. They probably have removed the m.att and int influence on the debuffs, because with the current high int and m.att the land rates of Feohs would be insane.
crit rate... could reach 400+ with full wit, magic evasion... helps to evade magic damage but not the debuff. yes still waiting for proof that wit helps against debuff but you can notice how a target can evade the damage but the debuff still land and that is the work of magic evasion. increase of magic accuracy, a lot cast speed and slight increase of debuff land rate... i wouldnt call wit worthless at all. the increase is even more significant when you add subclass increase of crit rate or accuracy or debuff, then jewels, enchant of skills, etc. if int (same for str) add any criical damage to skills, personally i havent noticed any at all and the increase of damage with full int is rather.. lol. aside from crit rate and cast, the other stats arent noticeable as these 2 but imo it helps along with the passives. if you go int you have a sure increase of damage, not much but is always there. with wit you are dealing with chances, chance to crit chance to evade chance to debuff etc.
yes dyes finally work on there so you can go and test. imo wit is far from worthless and is good especially for ppl who likes oly and such.
So... its been a year and 3 months now. :)
Surprisingly, they responded back to us last week about it. All they gave us was a formula (not allowed post it) for how magic accuracy and magic evasion work.
Surprisingly, they responded back to us last week about it. All they gave us was a formula (not allowed post it) for how magic accuracy and magic evasion work.
Could you extrapolate the formula into some scenarios which demonstrate what people are asking?
Surprisingly, they responded back to us last week about it. All they gave us was a formula (not allowed post it) for how magic accuracy and magic evasion work.
So what does it do? Don't need to know the formula, just what does it do exactly? Because the description on the website is very... vague.
Could you extrapolate the formula into some scenarios which demonstrate what people are asking?A level 99 Summoner with 115 WIT and a R99-Grade Weapon. (Magic Accuracy)
A level 90 Warrior with 95 WIT and R-Grade Armor. (Magic Evasion)
So what does it do? Don't need to know the formula, just what does it do exactly? Because the description on the website is very... vague.I'll put it in layman's terms. Magic Accuracy lands debuffs, while Magic Evasion counters them.
1) Is the grade of armor really a relevant factor, or do you mean to imply only that armors effect on m.accuracy/m.evasion ?
Since you know the formula, given level 99 players in level 99 gear:
2) How much could a defender with a high WIT build expect to resist debuffs from an attacker with neutral WIT. %wise
3) Conversely how much could an attacker expect m.accuracy to affect landrate given a high WIT build vs. a neutral wit defender. %wise
4) does this affect skills without attribute such as summoner Marks ?1. Yes, armor grade and weapon grade matter for M. Accuracy/M. Evasion. Armor effects only matter if they give extra WIT, M. Accuracy, or M. Evasion.
2./3. I cannot really answer these questions. The formula given was not one where you could simply plug in numbers. There are other game mechanics involved with the formula that I do not have complete access to nor can I mention.
4. Marks have no skill debuff (magic/physical), but they are affected by M. Accuracy and M. Evasion.
1. Yes, armor grade and weapon grade matter for M. Accuracy/M. Evasion. Armor effects only matter if they give extra WIT, M. Accuracy, or M. Evasion.
2./3. I cannot really answer these questions. The formula given was not one where you could simply plug in numbers. There are other game mechanics involved with the formula that I do not have complete access to nor can I mention.
4. Marks have no skill debuff (magic/physical), but they are affected by M. Accuracy and M. Evasion.
Since we isolated that m.accuracy and m.evasion affects debuffs and now there are easy ways to raise and lower those stats, is it possible to redo this test doing high m.accuracy vs low m.evasion, low m.accuracy vs high m.evasion and even m.accuracy and m.evasion?
For example A wynn summoner vs a wynn summoner
test 1: normal buffs vs normal buffs (100 vs 100)
test 2: +4 M.accuracy from subclass skills vs normal buffs (108 vs 100)
test 3: +4 M.accuracy and +16 from ability points vs normal buffs (124 vs 100)
test 4: normal buffs vs +4 M.evasion from subclass skills (100 vs 108)
Also I could had sworn that those stats affected accuracy and evasion of landing magic skills in general.