So, I finally get my permared bot-killer to 88 and go in for my first few kills at sel mahum and I see this:
*****
Reputation Penalty lv7
You're being penalized for your reputation. Your XP does not refill even after resurrection. Pdef and Mdef is decreased by 95%
*****
My tyrr now has 88 pdef unbuffed, and is a one-shot to almost anything. What is the point of this? If you want to get rid of the bot problem, here's a thought: STOP DOING STUFF TO HELP THE BOTS. You guys have a major issue in this game. Game play is one-sided and getting to the point where it's nearly impossible to compete at the top levels without botting. Real players can't find spots to XP at the lower levels b/c it's nothing but bots everywhere. New players quit before they even start b/c they see how much of a joke this game is.
Seriously though, what is the point of this debuff? In any context? Even if it's to protect live players from reds, this is too much. Why not just get rid of the ability to kill another player that's unflagged all together? Or maybe just get rid of PVP, or better yet, just shut the servers down and let the game die already.
After countless hours levelling this toon in an attempt to actually help with this game's bot problem, this feels like a slap in the face. Thanks for wasting my time.
Camoa
Alexandervive
Edit:
There should be a stickied thread for these "accusations" on these forums, and a feature to auto post screens/video from in-game. What else is going to work, reporting them?? The same people came 6 months ago when I was doing the same thing. You think no one reported them since then?? Stop sweeping stuff under the carpet and fix your game, it's about 5 years overdue.
But yeah, it has been know for weeks, even months, that there will be a penalty for karma (reputation) in this update.
Oh, and in case you have not read THAT one, either: if that perma-red dies, you will probably lose a ton of items (they will be destroyed). Even bound/augmented ones.
This isn't pk penalties made 'harsher'. This is completely removing PKing from the game without actually doing it. 88 pdef... I can roll a level 1 mystic, put it in some heavy armor and have more pdef than that. This is ridiculous, I'm getting 1 shotted by the iss-bots' AOEs.
And what does it matter how long it's been known? Either way, I guarantee it hasn't been known for as long as I've been levelling this toon. So many hours wasted in an attempt to help get rid of, or even slow down the bots. If you added up all the time it would probably be a week straight. If you billed it out at minimum wage it'd be worth a couple grand. And for what?
I'm sick of playing this game legit and trying to compete with people that bot 24/7. I don't even know if there's anyone left who actually feels the same way. I remember back when I first started playing, bots were around, but the general feeling was that people hated them, and if you were associated with them, you were trash. Now it's like you're noob if you don't e-bay a full set of epics and top gear, etc. I guess the bots won that fight long ago.
This isn't pk penalties made 'harsher'. This is completely removing PKing from the game without actually doing it. 88 pdef... I can roll a level 1 mystic, put it in some heavy armor and have more pdef than that. This is ridiculous, I'm getting 1 shotted by the iss-bots' AOEs.
And what does it matter how long it's been known? Either way, I guarantee it hasn't been known for as long as I've been levelling this toon. So many hours wasted in an attempt to help get rid of, or even slow down the bots. If you added up all the time it would probably be a week straight. If you billed it out at minimum wage it'd be worth a couple grand. And for what?
I'm sick of playing this game legit and trying to compete with people that bot 24/7. I don't even know if there's anyone left who actually feels the same way. I remember back when I first started playing, bots were around, but the general feeling was that people hated them, and if you were associated with them, you were trash. Now it's like you're noob if you don't e-bay a full set of epics and top gear, etc. I guess the bots won that fight long ago.
Honestly I agree here. The old way of how PK worked....well worked. The players kept an eye on the games BOT issue. Thought to be a bot? Kill it. Before the Goddess of Destruction, you wouldn't have players everywhere. Now,, after the GoD comes out, perma red. Thats fine, go with that. Just pointing out that bots start screaming in region area about adena. So another "Fix" comes out taking out all characters under a high level from shouting. Thanks guys, can't seem to find Kama groups anymore and I'm not sitting next to the guards all day. Getting in to the PKing, yeah okay. Sure it'll stop low level PvP and it will increase botting (just so any developers that may be reading this knows, yes the population is higher now already. Coming from a Chronicle 2 player, your population of bots is completely sad compared to back in the day when we controlled it with being able to come out of red after killing a few of them. Just throwing that out there.) I would rather deal with reds than a crap ton of bots everywhere in gludio with their shops and grinding. Had one the other day killing a Sakum quest monster over and over again on Bartz.
Well, those hours "wasted" to roll a perma-red would have been spent well if you took 30 minutes to read the latest news.
Now, since after-thoughts are always right, I understand your disappointment. But if you didn't know about the changes, don't unleash the blame on the ones who knew beforehand about it.
Well, those hours "wasted" to roll a perma-red would have been spent well if you took 30 minutes to read the latest news.
Now, since after-thoughts are always right, I understand your disappointment. But if you didn't know about the changes, don't unleash the blame on the ones who knew beforehand about it.
ffs, do you read?? This has nothing to do with when it was known about, or when it was implemented, or who knew what when. This update to the game removes the only method the players had to deal with bots, and pretty much erases years of L2 history. Reds are/were a part of the game.
And for the record, I rolled that toon long before glory days was ever heard of. It took a long time to level. If you haven't figured it out yet, I don't bot.
This change is wrong, it's a huge mistake. Whether it was announced yesterday or ten years ago doesn't matter.
ffs, do you read?? This has nothing to do with when it was known about, or when it was implemented, or who knew what when. This update to the game removes the only method the players had to deal with bots, and pretty much erases years of L2 history. Reds are/were a part of the game.
And for the record, I rolled that toon long before glory days was ever heard of. It took a long time to level. If you haven't figured it out yet, I don't bot.
This change is wrong, it's a huge mistake. Whether it was announced yesterday or ten years ago doesn't matter.
Well it still smells like you're flouncing because you didn't know this was coming so yes it does matter. Now it's here and it's like a mega slap to the face. Yes it's unfair that the cheaters are free to roam unchecked period. I don't like it and the cheaters will gladly trash you in game because you don't match up.
I would ask your clan to take you some place and help you wash off the negative reputation. We used to go in stakato nest, run around grab as many mobs as possible and AoE until the karma was washed. After you do that I would seriously look into reducing your pk count due to the fact if you are red you can lose items, any items and it could cost you a lot.
Again I'm sorry you're in this situation otherwise you might have to consider all the options or reroll.
If you haven't figured it out yet, I don't bot.
Are you then accusing me to bot just because I don't waste time on leveling permareds and instead I tell permareds who cry on the boards because they lost gear that the change was known for at least a year?
Planning in advance is what makes a player appear smart; and you leveled up a permared to clear areas from bots. If you knew about the change you would have thought twice before PKing someone without cleansing your PK points first. Because now you can cleanse them, with the return or the infamous Sin Eater quest.
Again, I agree that this change sucks. But NCWest can't do anything about it; Korean players are known to be mostly PVErs, and that's why NC is trying to push PK out of the game. That's also the reason that I believe venting on the boards just makes you feel good for a while, only to discover that nothing has changed since then.
I will be moving from Primeval Island to Talking Island... there I will have a chance to Player Kill a few times a day before the level 8s take me out.
Are you then accusing me to bot just because I don't waste time on leveling permareds and instead I tell permareds who cry on the boards because they lost gear that the change was known for at least a year?
Planning in advance is what makes a player appear smart; and you leveled up a permared to clear areas from bots. If you knew about the change you would have thought twice before PKing someone without cleansing your PK points first. Because now you can cleanse them, with the return or the infamous Sin Eater quest.
Again, I agree that this change sucks. But NCWest can't do anything about it; Korean players are known to be mostly PVErs, and that's why NC is trying to push PK out of the game. That's also the reason that I believe venting on the boards just makes you feel good for a while, only to discover that nothing has changed since then.
Haven't lost any gear yet except for leather pants. (I'm a rockstar like that ;)). Don't have a clan to de-red my toon, I quit playing quite a while ago. All I do now is smash bots and mess around on my sub. It's a slap in the face not because I didn't know about it, but because I/others are putting more of an effort into controlling the bot population in this game than NCSoft themselves are, and this is how we're repayed. I have to give them credit for stopping the spam temporarily, congrats on going in to an existing piece of code and changing a 20 to a 77. But now those spam bots are probably out levelling somewhere, and there's nothing that can be done about it b/c anyone with a red and the willingness to go and farm them is going to get 1 shotted by C grade archers.
Well, I guess you can only shrug and move on. Because, as you put things like that, there's nothing else you can do, as well many other permareds.
As Dracha's signature states:
Added a ‘Reputation Penalty’ in order to discourage senseless PKing... is there any other kind?
As I stated, devs are clearly trying to push player killing out because they don't like it. So, I wonder why they just don't turn it off instead of introducing harsher and harsher penalties to discourage PKing, which doesn't need any reason to be done, other than personal fun.
all this new pk system sux. it should go back to the way it was in the past where you could pk and work it off and drive on.
i agree with others,, bots will increase not lots and ppl just being turds to each other because they know you cannot pk them with out very harsh penalties.
Killing bots.... riiiiiiiiiiight. People get PK'd alot because some guy thought they were bots. No amount of talking will convince the guy otherwise. Dead I remember when GoD came out, people were hassled by plenty of PK clans who go around PK anyone, bot or not. Now that they changed the PK rules again, people are starting to complain, yet again. lol OmyGoshes, I just want to log on and see the misery on the PKers' faces. People are never satisfied. I think everyone's perfect L2 Update would be: +20 R99 weapons, +10 R99 Armor +20 on all skills, +10 Blessed Boss Jewels, Invulnerable perma red to wipe out the "bots", No time limits on Kartia, Olys at all hours everyday, A special "Hero Killer" range weapon sold in store.... cheap, XP and Drop rate x 1000 times, An Antheras mount for everyone, Rep points for the best Trash talk on Hero shout, A GM at your beck and call to fix "bugs and problems" and get rid of adena sellers, The enchantment rate would be 150% with no destruction of the item if failed, A bank in Giran and Aden to store your adena and it collects interest, a proper step stool so dwarves can see over the counters, and a nice letter at Christmas from NCSoft. :D :D :D
I think everyone's perfect L2 Update would be: +20 R99 weapons, +10 R99 Armor +20 on all skills, +10 Blessed Boss Jewels, Invulnerable perma red to wipe out the "bots", No time limits on Kartia, Olys at all hours everyday, A special "Hero Killer" range weapon sold in store.... cheap, XP and Drop rate x 1000 times, An Antheras mount for everyone,... A GM at your beck and call to fix "bugs and problems" and get rid of adena sellers, The enchantment rate would be 150% with no destruction of the item if failed, A bank in Giran and Aden to store your adena and it collects interest, a proper step stool so dwarves can see over the counters, and a nice letter at Christmas from NCSoft. :D :D :D
Sounds too much like what they are trying to do now... you don't happen to be a NCSoft Developer working on the care bear team??
Perma red is our way of dealing whit bots , when NC soft wont
2 days ago i went to cruma tower to exp a sub , and what i see? 6 elf mystic runing whit no grade armor and D grade staff most of em then didnt even have shots , and some iss 95+ (he had seraph armor) there to protect them
will nc soft ban those sort of bots senceless bots that bot just for the sake of botting to stop others from leveling, i don't think so
what we did to deal whit them is log our perma red and wipe them out and have spot for our self for 10-15 min utill their script bring them back to the spot
i don't mind some bots like those that just try to exp one toon to get playing in after 85-86
but its geting imposable to lvl up even at lower levels and at weekends at harnak there are sometimes 2 bot pts in 1 room
so PLEASE NCsoft remove this sanceless penalty or ban all adena farmers (even low levels) and not 1 time ban like u did last time keep and eye on them
The PK penalty should be even more ferocious. For why, well the new ones can't remember this, but b4 GoD it was IMPOSSIBLE to exp on good spot. The biggest clans just PKed everything alive and the bot protectors were rulling the servers. And before you start with "ohh another pve QQ farmer" you should know i still have 28 PKs for cleaning (started with 51 before GD) on my MAIN charr, not some box or low lvl i don't care about. But yes, it's still very easy to clear negative reputation.
The PK penalty should be even more ferocious. For why, well the new ones can't remember this, but b4 GoD it was IMPOSSIBLE to exp on good spot. The biggest clans just PKed everything alive and the bot protectors were rulling the servers. And before you start with "ohh another pve QQ farmer" you should know i still have 28 PKs for cleaning (started with 51 before GD) on my MAIN charr, not some box or low lvl i don't care about. But yes, it's still very easy to clear negative reputation.
How could they be made more ferocious? Do you read? My level 88 tyrr has 88 pdef unbuffed. With full buffs + knights + ogre, I can get it up to around 300. That's ridiculous. And no, it's impossible to clear negative rep when you have only 300 pdef. Not that I care about cleaning rep on this toon, I levelled him solely for the purpose of PKing bots, I have no other use for it.
But whatever, if that's the way NC wants this game to be played, go ahead, bot bot bot, ebay ebay ebay, cheat to win, then brag about it like you're pro.
I have to say, I don't understand what all the crying is about. The PK system went back to almost exactly as it was before GOD.
You die while being red = you lose your karma, you're over 5pks or more? You lose your items as well. Need to lower your pk count? Do the sin eater quest (now daily I believe).
I have to say, I don't understand what all the crying is about. The PK system went back to almost exactly as it was before GOD.
You die while being red = you lose your karma, you're over 5pks or more? You lose your items as well. Need to lower your pk count? Do the sin eater quest (now daily I believe).
they removed pemared toons from game, they are still there but 89 lvl can be killed whit few hits from non aweken tex 100 p/m def
u get full suit of armor and weapon for free , who care if u lose those stuff =)
I have to say, I don't understand what all the crying is about. The PK system went back to almost exactly as it was before GOD.
You die while being red = you lose your karma, you're over 5pks or more? You lose your items as well. Need to lower your pk count? Do the sin eater quest (now daily I believe).
No, the new debuff has made it almost pointless to have a bot killer now, or any kind of perma red (I personally only kill bots). Not sure if you're paying attn, but my 88 tyrr perma has 88 pdef unbuffed now. That's in full R gear. With full buffs + ogre + knights he has 220 pdef. I get one/two-shotted by 85 chanters with vesper gear now. This is not "almost exactly as it was before GoD" This is the end of perma-reds.
For the guy who was talking about big clans PKing you for spots. That can still happen with little consequence. One player with low PK count goes red, a few kills later the red is gone, do sin-eater to get PK count down again. You don't get the debuff at lower PK counts, and the first few levels of it are negligible. All this does is help those big clans by making it harder to kill their bots. They will now have a full, uninterupted 24 hour day to bot for their gear every single day from now until this is fixed. Except when I log in ofc ;).
Well, I found the first of the spam bots XPing in GC today. S-Grade already, so by tomorrow we should be seeing the spam in towns again, and not a **** thing I can do about it. Good job NCSoft. I don't even know what else to say. The players have been here on forums telling you over and over again how to solve this problem. What do you do? Bury the posts in a 100 page thread and totally ignore everything that's said in them. You were told that raising the level for shouts wasn't going to do a **** thing except hurt new live players. These are bots, they can XP fast. All day, no interruptions, especially now that their bot protectors can 1 shot any permared.
Any ideas for how to destroy this game further in the next patch?
Well, I found the first of the spam bots XPing in GC today. S-Grade already, so by tomorrow we should be seeing the spam in towns again, and not a **** thing I can do about it. Good job NCSoft. I don't even know what else to say. The players have been here on forums telling you over and over again how to solve this problem. What do you do? Bury the posts in a 100 page thread and totally ignore everything that's said in them. You were told that raising the level for shouts wasn't going to do a **** thing except hurt new live players. These are bots, they can XP fast. All day, no interruptions, especially now that their bot protectors can 1 shot any permared.
Any ideas for how to destroy this game further in the next patch?
And I said this before GD launched. I knew it wouldn't do a thing except flood xp areas with bots. They can run many accounts at once and won't hesitate to keep the spam coming.
I have to say, I don't understand what all the crying is about. The PK system went back to almost exactly as it was before GOD.
You die while being red = you lose your karma, you're over 5pks or more? You lose your items as well. Need to lower your pk count? Do the sin eater quest (now daily I believe).
Tooooo RIGHT! +1. Besides, its a new take on the system. I do believe the PK system is still working as intended.
No, the new debuff has made it almost pointless to have a bot killer now, or any kind of perma red (I personally only kill bots). Not sure if you're paying attn, but my 88 tyrr perma has 88 pdef unbuffed now. That's in full R gear. With full buffs + ogre + knights he has 220 pdef. I get one/two-shotted by 85 chanters with vesper gear now. This is not "almost exactly as it was before GoD" This is the end of perma-reds.
For the guy who was talking about big clans PKing you for spots. That can still happen with little consequence. One player with low PK count goes red, a few kills later the red is gone, do sin-eater to get PK count down again. You don't get the debuff at lower PK counts, and the first few levels of it are negligible. All this does is help those big clans by making it harder to kill their bots. They will now have a full, uninterupted 24 hour day to bot for their gear every single day from now until this is fixed. Except when I log in ofc ;).
One guy in a group goes red and I happen to wander by him working it off? I'm using Snipe stance and Pin Point to take him out. If they try to rez him, I do it again. Then take off my armor to see who else wants to go red. I always roll solo with non grade jewels for the nukers who want to flag on me. Losing exp isn't so tragic now. Going RED is a useless revenge tactic now. You get killed by a RED? Just go back to town and rebuff to go back to kill him. ooh fun
They should at least make it so that the stuff isn't destroyed but dropped, there is no point to PK (the penality is too big) or to kill PK chars (except to piss them off or take revenge) anymore.
And the black judge shouldn't take back the penitent manacles everytime we do the quest, 2M a day can be quite a lot after some time.
I didn't check the xp loss if you have only 1 pk, but on a lvl 41 char with 4 pk, it's was 10% per death (at least the first one, he had 0.2% left so I couldn't test further).
I don't want to try on my lvl 89 main, he still has -1400 rep (got DC in Nursery when I tried to clean it T.T), but I'm guessing the xp loss will be huge (and some items destroyed too...).
At least before Glory Days we had the green name (rep > 0) to protect us, even if we already had pk points.
Now not only the green is ugly, but it's useful only if the number of pk is 0, over that value it's useless (we get a little less negative rep but that's it). So we have 1 "free" pk a day.... "Free" meaning 2 millions, of course...
Even to deal (kill) with KSers that's not enough >< (I wont talk about bots, you guys did it already). No more free pk...
They really protect players from senseless PKing (permareds - but I don't think we needed that protection, and I don't see why in Korea they could ever need that), but they also removed the PKing that made sense (protecting your xp spot from KSers and stuff)
They should at least make it so that the stuff isn't destroyed but dropped, there is no point to PK (the penality is too big) or to kill PK chars (except to piss them off or take revenge) anymore.
And the black judge shouldn't take back the penitent manacles everytime we do the quest, 2M a day can be quite a lot after some time.
I didn't check the xp loss if you have only 1 pk, but on a lvl 41 char with 4 pk, it's was 10% per death (at least the first one, he had 0.2% left so I couldn't test further).
I don't want to try on my lvl 89 main, he still has -1400 rep (got DC in Nursery when I tried to clean it T.T), but I'm guessing the xp loss will be huge (and some items destroyed too...).
At least before Glory Days we had the green name (rep > 0) to protect us, even if we already had pk points.
Now not only the green is ugly, but it's useful only if the number of pk is 0, over that value it's useless (we get a little less negative rep but that's it). So we have 1 "free" pk a day.... "Free" meaning 2 millions, of course...
Even to deal (kill) with KSers that's not enough >< (I wont talk about bots, you guys did it already). No more free pk...
They really protect players from senseless PKing (permareds - but I don't think we needed that protection, and I don't see why in Korea they could ever need that), but they also removed the PKing that made sense (protecting your xp spot from KSers and stuff)
Did they change the Sin Eater quest? I remember that I got to keep mine when I had to finish it pre-GOD. I wonder if they have a different icon now.
Did they change the Sin Eater quest? I remember that I got to keep mine when I had to finish it pre-GOD. I wonder if they have a different icon now.
It changed. Among other things, it's a daily, not a repeatable quest.