Lab Test 59 - Specter Thrower (Bow) vs. Specter Shooter (Crossbow)

~Request by Kopco~
Testing: Yul archer damage with BOW / X-BOW
Question: What is the difference between damage with bow and crossbow in normal attack, critical and skill
Reason: To find what is better to use and difference in damage

Attacker: Yul Archer 99 buffed with ISS 99 (maybe with different stances? )
Defender: Yul Archer buffed with ISS 99

and write P.atk and atk.speed pleaseCharacter A: lvl 99 Human Yul Archer
Character B: lvl 99 Human Yul Archer
Status: Soulshots and level 2 Heavenly Cocktail
Attack: Normal | Critical | Quick Shot
Armor: None
Weapons:
+4 Specter Thrower - 3,016 Normal Damage | 5,168 Critical Damage| 23,708 Quickshot Damage [5,964 P. Atk/629 Atk. Spd]
+4 Specter Thrower (Focus) - 3,167 Normal Damage | 5,427 Critical Damage | 24,877 Quickshot Damage [5,964 P. Atk/629 Atk. Spd]
+4 Specter Thrower (Damage) - 3,367 Normal Damage | 5,752 Critical Damage | 25,379 Quickshot Damage [6,341 P. Atk/629 Atk. Spd]
+4 Specter Thrower (Focus + Damage) - 3,536 Normal Damage | 6,040 Critical Damage | 26,631 Quickshot Damage [6,341 P. Atk/629 Atk. Spd]
-----------------------------------------
+4 Specter Shooter - 2,744 Normal Damage | 4,726 Critical Damage | 22,689 Quickshot Damage [5,426 P. Atk/719 Atk. Spd]
+4 Specter Shooter (Focus) - 2,882 Normal Damage | 4,962 Critical Damage | 23,823 Quickshot Damage [5,426 P. Atk/719 Atk. Spd]
+4 Specter Shooter (Haste) - 2,882 Normal Damage | 4,962 Critical Damage | 23,823 Quickshot Damage [5,426 P. Atk/827 Atk. Spd]
+4 Specter Shooter (Focus + Haste) - 3,026 Normal Damage | 5,211 Critical Damage | 25,014 Quickshot Damage [5,426 P. Atk/827 Atk. Spd]

DPS Test:
+4 Specter Shooter (Focus + Haste) - 172 Average DPS
+4 Specter Thrower (Focus + Damage) - 145 Average DPS

Could be good to know the DPS numbers also.

Could be good to know the DPS numbers also.
Added.

You were using any stance Juji?

You were using any stance Juji?
No.

thank for test
only question: how can be possible, that with bigger p.atk you have lower dmg ? it must to be at around 10% lower with that p.atk.

-------- bow / x-bow
P.ATK: 5964 / 5426
DMG : 2396 / 2398

Focus SA adding any dmg to normal hits or Haste SA on x-bow decrease dmg?
To critical hits it's ok, bcs. you can reach 500 easy and after 500 crit rate it's go to crit dmg,
I'm little confused.

thank for test
only question: how can be possible, that with bigger p.atk you have lower dmg ? it must to be at around 10% lower with that p.atk.

-------- bow / x-bow
P.ATK: 5964 / 5426
DMG : 2396 / 2398

Focus SA adding any dmg to normal hits or Haste SA on x-bow decrease dmg?
To critical hits it's ok, bcs. you can reach 500 easy and after 500 crit rate it's go to crit dmg,
I'm little confused.
I have a hunch what the problem could be. I'll double-check my test results again tomorrow and will re-post new results.

I have a hunch what the problem could be. I'll double-check my test results again tomorrow and will re-post new results.
Thank you :-)

thank for test
only question: how can be possible, that with bigger p.atk you have lower dmg ? it must to be at around 10% lower with that p.atk.

-------- bow / x-bow
P.ATK: 5964 / 5426
DMG : 2396 / 2398

Focus SA adding any dmg to normal hits or Haste SA on x-bow decrease dmg?
To critical hits it's ok, bcs. you can reach 500 easy and after 500 crit rate it's go to crit dmg,
I'm little confused.

Possibly damage variation. The dps would be higher because the crossbow has a much higher attack plus the haste SA.

maybe my logic is bad but when i recalculated DPS
and bow still have damage up + I count +5% to dmg for second SA in xbow, then

+4 Specter Shooter (Focus + Haste) - 172 Average DPS
+4 Specter Thrower (Focus + Damage) - 145 Average DPS

i use only calculator
172/(atk speed xbow - 2SA) 719/827 ---> i get 149 average DPS
and if -5% (for second SA) --------------- cca 142 DPS


if something wrong in calculations write it :-)

srry for my strong language

Possibly damage variation. The dps would be higher because the crossbow has a much higher attack plus the haste SA.

I'm not saying about damage per second but damage per one single hit.
So in that case means
lower p.atk => lower damage per one single hit
higher p.atk => higher damage per one single hit

and to Tuky:
easier way is to do something like:
5,964 P. Atk * 629 Atk. Spd = 3751356
5,426 P. Atk * 719 Atk. Spd = 3901294

so in total to compare means:
3751356 / 3901294 = 96,16%
so that mean, that you give 96,16% damage with bow against to x-bow for same time with normal hits
critic rate is same, so it don't depend by this

The test has been cleaned up with better results. I found that the first test had an issue with the defending character's stats/skills.

The test has been cleaned up with better results. I found that the first test had an issue with the defending character's stats/skills.
again me :-D
only fast question :
do you remember critic rate with SA focus? less or more as 500 ?

again me :-D
only fast question :
do you remember critic rate with SA focus? less or more as 500 ?
It was 305.

It was 305.
ok, thank you :-)

best dps was always achieved with high crit rate & att speed, more so then actual patt.. of course it would be awesome to have it all..

high oe'd bless shooter would be da weapon of choice imo

Seems the x-bow is better but when i think of Quick Fire and 100% atk. spd. increase, all it's advantages dissapear, right?

is it posible to do a test with a bow and xbow with same p atk(yes the xbow will have to be OE more ) and no SA and see their DPS ?

is it posible to do a test with a bow and xbow with same p atk(yes the xbow will have to be OE more ) and no SA and see their DPS ?
For what? xbow will have higher dps because higher atkspd.

is it posible to do a test with a bow and xbow with same p atk(yes the xbow will have to be OE more ) and no SA and see their DPS ?

/facepalm

same p atk

same crit rate

Xbow higher atk speed

/facepalm

Just by inspecting the face specfication, the xbow is a mightier weapon in DPS, because DPS = damage per hit X number of hits in a second, so it is not surpise that the haste SA used in xbow which boost attack speed by 15% is superior in comparison with focus/damage SA used in longbow which hardly increase damage by 15%.

As a DD, DPS is top, no other thing higher ;)

juji
can you test with infinity thrower and xbow?

For those that don't play archer and are thinking 'wow xbow better than bow'. Yes, it was always better for dps, until you can OE quick fire to last 30 seconds which gives max attack speed. Quick fire also skill crits a good portion of the time so you can keep it up around 80% of the time.

Also please remember, for pvp you want to hit hard enough to kill opponent before they can be healed so higher pattack on bow > xbow.

Thanks for doing test Juji.

EDIT: Even with quick fire lasting 20 seconds, I found dps better with bow because you could get max attack speed with bow vs. max attack speed with crossbow. Plus like I mentioned, you want to crit hard to kill before they heal.

Juji, pls, can you add a test with D.Elf and L.Elf yuls too, cos i suspect the results there will be totally opposite of the human...
I also tested +4 specter x-bow vs +4 specter thrower (w/o single SA) on the NPC in the WH in giran and the result is a far distant advantage for the normal bow; something like 80DPS with basic CH buffs.

And what did you tested on ? cos 5k hit with quick fire seems super low dmg, unless it's done on tank :D

Juji, pls, can you add a test with D.Elf and L.Elf yuls too, cos i suspect the results there will be totally opposite of the human...
I also tested +4 specter x-bow vs +4 specter thrower (w/o single SA) on the NPC in the WH in giran and the result is a far distant advantage for the normal bow; something like 80DPS with basic CH buffs.

And what did you tested on ? cos 5k hit with quick fire seems super low dmg, unless it's done on tank :D

The crossbow needs haste SA to add enough attack speed to make it that much better. The test was also done without sonatas or harmony which can change the numbers quite a bit.

Thrower is better for the moments when you have BR or use rapid fire. Shooter would be better for every other moment.

I suspect there's some racial thingy in here. My guess is the human can't fully use the p.atk difference between the bow and x-bow. That;s why i want to see results with Dark elves and Light elves. If it's true, then the DE Yul should have more DPS with Bow and the LE yul will have significantly more DPS with x-bow compared to the human.

x-bow over thrower damage increase per second is actually 18.6% and not 15% as stated.

For those that don't play archer and are thinking 'wow xbow better than bow'. Yes, it was always better for dps, until you can OE quick fire to last 30 seconds which gives max attack speed. Quick fire also skill crits a good portion of the time so you can keep it up around 80% of the time.

Also please remember, for pvp you want to hit hard enough to kill opponent before they can be healed so higher pattack on bow > xbow.

Thanks for doing test Juji.

EDIT: Even with quick fire lasting 20 seconds, I found dps better with bow because you could get max attack speed with bow vs. max attack speed with crossbow. Plus like I mentioned, you want to crit hard to kill before they heal.
very good point

For those that don't play archer and are thinking 'wow xbow better than bow'. Yes, it was always better for dps, until you can OE quick fire to last 30 seconds which gives max attack speed. Quick fire also skill crits a good portion of the time so you can keep it up around 80% of the time.

Also please remember, for pvp you want to hit hard enough to kill opponent before they can be healed so higher pattack on bow > xbow.

Thanks for doing test Juji.

EDIT: Even with quick fire lasting 20 seconds, I found dps better with bow because you could get max attack speed with bow vs. max attack speed with crossbow. Plus like I mentioned, you want to crit hard to kill before they heal.
i may be talking Bulls**t here since i am not an archer and my question is purely filosophical
Isn't it correct that p.skill dmg comes from STR and not p.attack?
and if that so, earning 1 extra possible crit hit with a focus+haste shooter wouldn't prove better?

i may be talking Bulls**t here since i am not an archer and my question is purely filosophical
Isn't it correct that p.skill dmg comes from STR and not p.attack?
and if that so, earning 1 extra possible crit hit with a focus+haste shooter wouldn't prove better?

My damage is much higher with a thrower, so no, more P. atk means more damage.
I dont understand your 2nd question, attack speed does not change the cooldown of your skills, so it cant provide "1 extra possible crit hit".

My damage is much higher with a thrower, so no, more P. atk means more damage.
I dont understand your 2nd question, attack speed does not change the cooldown of your skills, so it cant provide "1 extra possible crit hit".

it may not decrease cooldown but it does decrease skill cast, you will use 2 skills in time of longbow users 1.5. X bow + haste + 15 dex equals to 1400 attack speed and with good jewels crit dmg will be high too. Also there will be many skill crits from high dex count. I would say, whatever rocks yours boat, but for pvp I would agree, longbow is a way.

it may not decrease cooldown but it does decrease skill cast, you will use 2 skills in time of longbow users 1.5. X bow + haste + 15 dex equals to 1400 attack speed and with good jewels crit dmg will be high too. Also there will be many skill crits from high dex count. I would say, whatever rocks yours boat, but for pvp I would agree, longbow is a way.
str gives u % to reuse skill .maybe new test dex vs str .
but realy . a bunch of skills .
like 10 time pin shot
10 times mult shot
random dmg off
and on end i know the true . its right here in test
+4 Specter Thrower (Focus + Damage) - 26,631 Quickshot Damage [6,341 P. Atk/629 Atk. Spd]
+4 Specter Shooter (Focus + Haste) - 25,014 Quickshot Damage[5,426 P. Atk/827 Atk. Spd]
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i think that should be tested . yuls are like mages now . skill after skill so atk speed kinda lose .
maybe atk speed will give u little boost but how much is the point . lets say with iss buff lvl 4 and ... 10 sec skills ? or something . starting with fast reuse .
--------------------------------------------------------------
26,631 Quickshot Damage [6,341 P. Atk/629 Atk. Spd]
25,014 Quickshot Damage[5,426 P. Atk/827 Atk. Spd]

this is kinda ... strange 915 p atk more and 1617 dmg more . this part is ok
buuuut 900p atk from 6k is a lot and 1.6k dmg from 26k is not so "lot"
in % i lose connection somewhere .

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maybe this test should be made with full buff becouse noone pve/pvp with pots and we ask to know actual diferents not semantic one . bcus full buff p atk will be 13k+ not 6k

sory for bad english its almost 5 at morning and i kinda sleep and look with 1 eye .

and in the end, even is shooter is better than bow it looks ugly :D

p.s. that dps counts only normal hits? because in pvp 90% time you spam skills, and atk speed not affect skill reuse or something..

dex vs str would be interesting to see how damage compares. but not sure how to test it quickly