Yesterday I was quietly doing my things in aden when an old friend comes to me and tells me that one of my clan mates "Scammed" a frintezza necklace.
And even tho I've been around for a LONG time in the L2 Scene, I always wonder what kind of ****** story that guy is going to come up with to define what he thinks "To Scam" means. MOST OF THE TIME It's just a lack of comprehension, game mechanics, or understanding between players before an event start that makes them (always the one who DON'T end up with the valuable reward at the end) say that other people "SCAMMED" them.
So let's see how good you are and let's take 3 different scenarios.
You will say in which you think there was a scam, and in which there wasn't a scam.
Scenario #1.
You open Party Matching and you see "Frintezza party #2"
You join and you go on to the final battle with Halisha... As soon as it dies, seconds after you got the XP/SP Reward. The Aore Healer in your group does "PARTY RETURN" and you are expelled from the zone, removing you and the rest of your party the rights to any of the loots.
Is this a scam or it's not a scam?
==========================================
Scenario #2.
You make a party with your alliance to do "VERY HARD" Octavis (or any other boss) And since it requires 6 Parties, your clan (let's name it Clan A) Contributes to 3 parties, Clan B in your alliance contributes to 2 parties and Clan C from your alliance contributes to 1 party. You all agree that Party #1 from Clan A would pickup all drops, and they would be distributed equally amonst all clans to the equivalent of 50% for Clan A (since they have 3/6 parties) 35% For Clan B (2/6 Parties) And 15% for Clan C (1/6 Parties) And since EPIC Jewelery is not "splittable" You all agree that first 2 Epic Jewels Go to Clan A, The Third Jewel would go to Clan B, And Fourth Would go to Clan C (And if there isn't enough Jewelery to get to #4, then you would remember the order and in the next Raid they would take the order to what it was and continue from there) That's what most people do right?.
You go and fight hard for 1 hour and you manage to kill the big hard boss and it drops 4 Epic Jewels. Party #1 of Clan A Picks up all the drops like everyone agreed, but after having seperated the normal "splittable" loot, Party #1 of Clan A Decides that since they did most of the effort, the 4 Epic Jewels Would stay to Clan A and they would seperate it with their Clan Instead of with the other Parties... And they said that Maybe next time If the other clans in the alliance brings more parties they would give them some loots too.
Is this a scam or it's not a scam?
==========================================
Scenario #3.
You and your friend Aore want to make a party for Hard Zaken and you plan a little something at the end with your friend. You make the party consisting of all Randoms exept you and your friend knows each other. After Zaken has 1% HP and is almost dead, you type /Leave and your friend AORE makes Party return to the entire party, Leaving you alone with Zaken nearly moments away before he dies, you battle for a couple seconds giving him the final hits and then he drops a zaken's earring. Of course, based on game mechanics, you are unable to immediately pick up the drops because there is a certain amount of time that the drops are decidated only to people that are in party, that amount of time passes and you then pick up the earring that is on the floor. The rest of the party re-entered the instance and came back to where the boss was but just late enough to see that you picked up a Zaken's Earring and now accuses you of Scamming The Earring!.
==========================================
Which Scenarios are Scams and Which are not, I would really like the GM's input on this as well... As I have my own Answers.
Spoiler Below. Do not read If you want to answer before knowing what I say about this.
Scenario #1: IS NOT A SCAM.
It's easy to understand your position... You entered an organised party where there is a MAJORITY of people who agreed beforehand that the drops would go to Party #1, and even tho you participated in the party and killed the boss as much as the party #1, you did not take part of the decision to take the loots, the decision was taken beforehand by a system called the majority... If there would have been a vote with this question : Who of the 2 parties shall take the drops in the end. The whole party 1 would have said "Party 1 should take the drops (Obviously!) And the entire Party 2 would have said "Party 2 should take the drops (Obviously!)" Exept there was 1 Aore Healer in Party 2 that would have said "Party 1 should take the drops" Because He/She is on their side... So the vote would have been " Party 1 : 8 - Party 2 : 6 " So in all Democracy, The party 1 would have earned their rights to keep the drops for them. The moral of this : IF YOU WANT DROPS IN AN INSTANCE, GO WITH A CP OR WITH YOUR CLAN IN A GROUP WHERE YOU KNOW EVERYONE. If you are a "Random" Even if you do the instance x100 times... You will get no drops... that is how L2 works, has worked in the past and will work in the futur so either you understand this or you will never get any valuable drops from instances/bosses like this in your L2 career. Thats one of the reasons why a Clan and a CP is Important.
==========================================
Scenario #2: IS TOTALLY A SCAM.
An agreement made by an alliance/clan/CP/Group of People from same Ventrillo/ That is NOT RESPECTED As the DEAL was Made in the beggining just because the rewards were BETTER or WORSE than expected is Totally SCAMMING. And this party/clan should be expelled from their alliance or party should be kicked from clan for acting this way and even... Temporarly Banned from the server.
==========================================
Scenario #3: IS NOT A SCAM.
But is a total ******BAGERIE... and people who do this are worse scumbags of the earth, its anti-etique, super impolite, and improper to do this, it piss people off and its anti-etiquette... but in no way is it a scam or even illegal. It's totally legal to do this and it's not a scam but it's like screwing over your partners after a bank robery, people do it, but they have hard time sleeping well over it. But final word, it's not a scam.
SO IF YOU HAVE A "SCAM" STORY THAT FITS IN SCENARIO #1 or #3 STOP SAYING IT'S A SCAM BECAUSE ITS NOT.
This is a scam. To indulge someone to take part in an activity that is widely known to work in a certain matter, yet not communicate with the indulged player about the actual rules ( that he won't be rewaded by using his own time as manwork) is to trick and deceive, therefore you are exploiting someone into helping you without offering anything in return without his consent or awareness...scam.
scam a stratagem for gain; a swindle
vb scams, scamming, scammed (tr) to swindle (someone) by means of a trick
You open Party Matching and you see "Frintezza party #2"
You join and you go on to the final battle with Halisha... As soon as it dies, seconds after you got the XP/SP Reward. The Aore Healer in your group does "PARTY RETURN" and you are expelled from the zone, removing you and the rest of your party the rights to any of the loots.
Is this a scam or it's not a scam?
==========================================
This is rather a form of scam, although the likelihood of this occurring is 0.000000 ..... 0001 (unless the healer who is the second party is coordinated with the first party, the first party of a whole clan or cp without bond or friendship with the party 2).
In fact even in instances like freya and Frintezza suits still do party with 14 random players from different clans than going with a risk doing such instances with a full party it being the same clan or cp (at the risk of them having the most damage and break the command channel, for the benefit of the loot, but also tend to cry Some players did not receive the "blessed" fragment from quest cloak).
Scenario #2.
You make a party with your alliance to do "VERY HARD" Octavis (or any other boss) And since it requires 6 Parties, your clan (let's name it Clan A) Contributes to 3 parties, Clan B in your alliance contributes to 2 parties and Clan C from your alliance contributes to 1 party. You all agree that Party #1 from Clan A would pickup all drops, and they would be distributed equally amonst all clans to the equivalent of 50% for Clan A (since they have 3/6 parties) 35% For Clan B (2/6 Parties) And 15% for Clan C (1/6 Parties) And since EPIC Jewelery is not "splittable" You all agree that first 2 Epic Jewels Go to Clan A, The Third Jewel would go to Clan B, And Fourth Would go to Clan C (And if there isn't enough Jewelery to get to #4, then you would remember the order and in the next Raid they would take the order to what it was and continue from there) That's what most people do right?.
You go and fight hard for 1 hour and you manage to kill the big hard boss and it drops 4 Epic Jewels. Party #1 of Clan A Picks up all the drops like everyone agreed, but after having seperated the normal "splittable" loot, Party #1 of Clan A Decides that since they did most of the effort, the 4 Epic Jewels Would stay to Clan A and they would seperate it with their Clan Instead of with the other Parties... And they said that Maybe next time If the other clans in the alliance brings more parties they would give them some loots too.
Is this a scam or it's not a scam?
==========================================
Here there is no scam, but in fact what often happens that those who assembles the parties, always stay with the best drops. On the server where I play, unfortunately happened over a year and no one challenged the mode epic octavis, though, I got tired of going in normal mode, precisely because the leaders of the parties, after finishing the raid, they collect drops of the players got, they gather (almost always the same clan, unfortunately), and then decide what will be redistributed (often unevenly), keeping the best drops for themselves, being of the same clan and leaving the worst drops, like boots, gloves or helm.
Scenario #3.
You and your friend Aore want to make a party for Hard Zaken and you plan a little something at the end with your friend. You make the party consisting of all Randoms exept you and your friend knows each other. After Zaken has 1% HP and is almost dead, you type /Leave and your friend AORE makes Party return to the entire party, Leaving you alone with Zaken nearly moments away before he dies, you battle for a couple seconds giving him the final hits and then he drops a zaken's earring. Of course, based on game mechanics, you are unable to immediately pick up the drops because there is a certain amount of time that the drops are decidated only to people that are in party, that amount of time passes and you then pick up the earring that is on the floor. The rest of the party re-entered the instance and came back to where the boss was but just late enough to see that you picked up a Zaken's Earring and now accuses you of Scamming The Earring!.
==========================================
Well, here I say from experience itself, I've been a victim of this scam, (although I do not think it is scam). In my case did not actually drop the jewel of Zaken, but fell the very same things as always ...
In fact there are two solutions, either you follow the recipe of scenario 3 and start practicing, or do as I do, is leader of the party, set yourself a party and done, be happy with future drops.
To be honest , they all looks like scams to me , i'll explain why...
First you should understand what's a scam is , actually , for scammer , you mean someone who actually STOLE or made something happen in way to STOLE a drop.
In the 1st case they made a pt for RB with randoms , so they should agree to splits drops , noone told you you're going to get nothing and they're going to pick everything for themself so i wonder how the hell you can call it "majority" , 'cause actually if i join into a party for random a raid and someone say "you're going to kill the raid for us but only 1st pt will pick 'cause we're the majority" i'll /block , go fu*k urself and bye bye :) but don't worry 'cause nowdays look like people use programs who skips video and so pick all the drops for their pt actually SCAMMING the other pt , 'cause a thing is "it dropped , we tried to pick but we're late and gg" and another is "we're still watching frintezza getting an*l **** and you can pick while we can't"
In the 2nd case , either , they're scammers ^^ 'cause if you said that drops were going to be splitted in a way between clans , actually , you should split in the way you said , it doesn't make sense saying "we did the most dps we take the drops" i once safe a cat from a three , but this doesnt allow me to go around saying i'm a hero or superman =)
Even here , you worked with your full pt , and actually you expect to , at least , TRY to get something , but no. one party member leave and healer PR and you lost drop (you must be slow as hell for not reach the zone before the loot priority change , but lot of people doenst know the way in the zaken istance and either are so smart for think to re-enter and run.or your pc just crashed so bye bye) , actually is scamming ^^
So actually , thinking how you do , if i go into an istina party and istina drop a jewel , i'm in the 1st pt who got the ** loot for splits drop , i pick it (skipping video with program , or just reaching the drop faster than the leader) , what i am? Bolt? no. that is actually called SCAMMER , if the 1st pt leader is afk and you repeat to him 20 times to pick up the drop , you still be a scammer but it got a bit of sense scamming , 'cause they're **** , but if everything goes right and you steal drops in anyway , you're a scammer and even a son of a ... :D
Sorry for my english , peace and love (and learn how to play , lolscammers :o)
Check with the legal definition of a "scam" (fraud) and you will realize that
Scenario 1. is clearly a scam. By deception/withholding information you have persuaded someone to take part in an activity which will cost them time and effort for your own personal gain.
Scenario 2. This is not fraud but a breach of contract. There is no planned deceptive behavior involved.