Or what's their principal job on pvp? And which summons do more dps? Panters or mages? Wynn summoner is a good dd for raid bosses?
Just that!
Wynn summoners are good DDs in PvE. They AOE with reapers and kill bosses and other solo high HP mobs with cougars. Cougars have more DPS but are melee and lack good AOE. Yes they are good DDs for raid bosses especially when paired with a tyrr warrior.
Their principal job in pvp is control as in they hinder the main threats in pvp with exiles and mark of trick and focus the MA's target with nukers, summon damage, mark of weakness and mark of plauge. In situational cases, dimensional binding is needed to allow other DDs to quickly shut down a target.
The class that makes your job difficult and sometimes a living hell are the aoere healers via radiant purge, brilliant purge, party celestial shield, and tree of life cleanses and of course the occasional sigel knight superior aggression aura spam.
Besides that you are no means of impressive damage in PvP but moderate sustained DPS with potential burst damage every 15 seconds or so depending on your reuse of marks and if they land/aren't cleansed before you can retrieve them.
As compensation for your lack of damage and limited functionality as a debuffing class, you have good survivability through transfer pain though not as much a sigel knight, aoere healer or iss enchanter. However with half a brain you can outlast all three in solo pvp.
If they have half a brain and decent gear you won't outlast an Aeore or Iss in solo PvP.
In Lindvior with the faster Mark Reuse Summoners will be better there, though. Servitors also get a bit of a damage boost, which will help their burst damage output, especially their Reaper PvP damage output.
You won't get any decent burst against a decent healer because they will cleanse everything you throw on them either actively or passively. It will last forever and they'll win by default because A summoner simply can't heal/balance themselves efficiently enough to win by attrition against a class that has functionally unlimited mana in a 1v1 and instant reuse Purges + Tree of Life if they have a decent mage weapon for their nukes.
An Iss can win without too much trouble if they land the right debuffs/CC and have half a brain. Easier than a healer, even. It's really not that hard to kill a summoner, but I think it's easier for people who have played one and know how the class functions better than for people who haven't, since those people tend to make incorrect assumptions insofar as how to go about it. However, in Lindvior IIRC Iss Enchanter heals are getting heavily nerfed so they won't be as powerful in these 1v1 scenarios.
If they have half a brain and decent gear you won't outlast an Aeore or Iss in solo PvP.
In Lindvior with the faster Mark Reuse Summoners will be better there, though. Servitors also get a bit of a damage boost, which will help their burst damage output, especially their Reaper PvP damage output.
You won't get any decent burst against a decent healer because they will cleanse everything you throw on them either actively or passively. It will last forever and they'll win by default because A summoner simply can't heal/balance themselves efficiently enough to win by attrition against a class that has functionally unlimited mana in a 1v1 and instant reuse Purges + Tree of Life if they have a decent mage weapon for their nukes.
An Iss can win without too much trouble if they land the right debuffs/CC and have half a brain. Easier than a healer, even. It's really not that hard to kill a summoner, but I think it's easier for people who have played one and know how the class functions better than for people who haven't, since those people tend to make incorrect assumptions insofar as how to go about it. However, in Lindvior IIRC Iss Enchanter heals are getting heavily nerfed so they won't be as powerful in these 1v1 scenarios.
I can't say for sure as I've seen a lot of fail Wynns, on Shilen at least, even some the few existing high level wynns are quite terrible. But that is why I said a player with half a brain can outlast.
Surviving a tank is easy, just, kite and survive through the collection of defense skills and the fight is won
Isses don't do enough damage to worry about however against a good iss is a stalemate as they can basically heal and transform themselves forever even on a sliver of MP left. Against bad or overly aggressive isses, it is an easy fight.
Healers are like isses but can actually hurt pretty decently, though exile is your friend and with that and while playing defensively you can burn a healer out of MP and make it either run away or die.
Any other case is 1. Not good enough. 2. Undergeared. 3. Underleveled.
Yes a summoner has poor burst damage capabilities being only mark retriever and invoke have some decent spike to them, but its not a burst damage class either.
In lindvior, outlasting those 3 classes will be a no brainer.
And yes I agree, knowing how a summoner works goes a long way to killing summoners easily even in summoner vs summoner matchups.
Isses don't do enough damage to worry about however against a good iss is a stalemate as they can basically heal and transform themselves forever even on a sliver of MP left. Against bad or overly aggressive isses, it is an easy fight.
Healers are like isses but can actually hurt pretty decently, though exile is your friend and with that and while playing defensively you can burn a healer out of MP and make it either run away or die.
No offense, but you make literally no sense.
iss enchanters, as you should know, can literally forgo offensive power and survive forever against anything that doesn't need a few shots to kill it. Just spamming heals and stone form for example is enough to do that not to mention their other array of skills that keep them alive. (Probably why their heal MP cost is being boosted so drastically in lindvior)
By playing defensively I mean not focusing all your effort on straight on attacks (Like most summoners do all the time) and attacking when necessary and focusing on surviving through servitor heal, balance life, exiles, mark of trick, mass exile.
Yeah, yeah tree of life, just AOE it down unless you're underleveled that thing is paper.
Yeah, yeah cleanses. Use mark of trick and pay attention to their buff bar.
Otherwise unless you are undergeared and/or underleveled you should not die to a healer as a summoner.
Even a good iss can live forever against a good healer and I've had the misfortune to glance at a 35 minute long fight between an iss and healer while watching TV before I decided to do something better with my time.
Anyway we could continue this argument but I mean its pointless. My summoner clannies and I have no issue with the aforementioned classes and that's fine with me. If other summoners can't do it... well tough cookies. :/
Mark of Trick isn't nearly as reliable as you think, nevermind the healer will just heal itself. 9/10 if the healer is any good and watches their buff bar they will remove at least 2 marks simply by slamming their finger down on the purge button. If you have a Nostromo you can just have it spam endlessly and it will simply auto-cast multiple times when you target yourself - easy as pie, and it's cheap as hell (mana-wise) to the point that it's forgettable. You're not going to stop the purge against any decent healer. Mark of Trick isn't that reliable against skills that cast/recycle that fast.
Tree of life they will recase and the radius on that tree's heals and purges is higher than your AoE nuke and IIRC also the AoE on Reapers (which seems a little smaller than Invoke's radius). If you had something with a radius like Mass Devil's Curse, sure... In any case, they will just recast it and move and continue on as usual.
As for the rest it's mostly subjective and going on about it we'd have to bring in too many factors that simply makes it useless to discuss. You may not die to a healer, but neither are you going to kill it. You certainly aren't going to OOM them while an Iss Enchanter runs around forever healing and target dropping off a "trickle of mana."
An Iss will OOM well before a healer will even have to rebirth unless the healer is undergeared/underleveled and taking a massive amount of damage from you. Or just bad (i.e. overspamming battle heals when there is no point in doing that).