Hello, i found some irony on the roll of all the classes.
You know, in the past all the classes were something like hybrid until they would choose their specialization.
For example:
1-Human fighter choose between knight, rouge and warrior classes and next bewteen two kind of knights, two kind of rouges and two kind of warriors. So even being a phoenix knight would have warrior and rouge skills because of its past.
2-storm screamers were normal wizards in the past, so even if they are focus on damage magic, they have heal skills, buffs skills, and summon skills.
All this until the fourth profession because you know that on the 4th class you are "SUPPOSEDLY" deeping even more in your class job.
So tanks at 4th profession lose their warrior skills and take everything about tank support.
And damage wizards leave all his past to deep more on damage magic... But, i'm really unsatisfied with thos, specially with mages because it is a little unsmart though.
Lets explain this:
Feoh wizard focus on damage magic, so they lose their heal skills, and their summon skills and their buffs are just for them, so everything it's about Damage skills....
...but what about healers and summoners, (specially summoners).
Healers get deep the healing and buff/debuff job but now they own nukes. Compared with the feoh nukers, they are a little joke, i know. But with a good enchanted weapon and good enchant skills they can make a decent damage, at least against foghter classes.
Obiously, there's a difference between gear and about 5lvls and she probably has good clan skills, but that doesn't justify the high damage that the aeore is dealing. Just look at the feoh wizard's status bar and tell me. The pvp is very short compared with the old ones that taked so long because of the low damage of the healers even with augmentation skills.
And about summoners, they suppouse to deep just in summon magic, but they still having nukes, and not crapy ones. I know 80% of their damage come through their summons but apparently in Lindvior update they'll get more fast reuse time on their marks so... WTF? They'll be something like summoners/nukers?
So, conclution:
Healers: got great healing skills, got SUMMONS, and got decent nukes.
Summoners: got great summon skills, got nukes.
Wizards: got "great" damage skills, lost healing skills, lost summon skills, lost buff skills.
And about tanks and by the way: why does the iss enchanter get autoheal HP skill instead of tanks if, all tanks in the past got regenerative skills, no matters if were targeting healing skills (phoenix knight), auto heal cubics (eva's templar), drain hp cubics (shillien templar).
Anyway i don't remember. And i had enough about post of criticism GoD because we all know good times will never come anymore but... Why does NCsoft is completly
Deicided into get more and more different the game if the users don't agree!
Many people say: "Lindvior will bring back the old times to lineage II"
But i don't see the great change, it's the same thing!
And about tanks and by the way: why does the iss enchanter get autoheal HP skill instead of tanks if, all tanks in the past got regenerative skills, no matters if were targeting healing skills (phoenix knight), auto heal cubics (eva's templar), drain hp cubics (shillien templar).
ISS healing is from prophet healing ability+sws+ overlord (who had chain heal and paagrios heart)+ cryer with chant of life.
Tank used to have healing abilities that came when they were NOT op...by gracia final, tank with heal made no sense except for evas that lacked DPS the most.
Also tanks do HAVE heal..from cubic at 95+, and on lindvior evas templar get 2nd heal cubic, theres your heal.
If tanks had heal like ISS, they would simply never die, cause it's like fighting a raid boss.
Tyrr heals are only good on Oly, outside the heal comes from healer, not from them. And the game is all about mass pvp, not single pvp, reaso nwhy it will be make sense nor be balanced.
The reason you see "same thing" is because you are not looking at the simple mechanics they introduce, a little change can change a lot the game for skilled players.
And we all know how pro is to change on inquisition and nuke with that healer in oly :)
Never said that they used them in oly... On paper they could, but it was wiser to take Inquisitor only for PvE.
And talking about nukes on healers, augment nukes were available, so again, what's different from the current situation?
Tyrr Warrior's Power Revival imho comes from Dreadnought's. I don't see anything odd about it.
About healers nukes: Inquisitor stance was introduced with Gracia update(?), so I don't see anything weird about healers possessing nukes, either.
Quick OT: clan skills don't work inside Olympiad matches.
But the damage had a great difference. No sense with actual skills.
And inquisitor instance wasn't a good option to use on olys.
ISS healing is from prophet healing ability+sws+ overlord (who had chain heal and paagrios heart)+ cryer with chant of life.
Tank used to have healing abilities that came when they were NOT op...by gracia final, tank with heal made no sense except for evas that lacked DPS the most.
Also tanks do HAVE heal..from cubic at 95+, and on lindvior evas templar get 2nd heal cubic, theres your heal.
If tanks had heal like ISS, they would simply never die, cause it's like fighting a raid boss.
Tyrr heals are only good on Oly, outside the heal comes from healer, not from them. And the game is all about mass pvp, not single pvp, reaso nwhy it will be make sense nor be balanced.
The reason you see "same thing" is because you are not looking at the simple mechanics they introduce, a little change can change a lot the game for skilled players.
All just about mass pvp? I think if you really like the MMORPG games you try to explore all the options that it gives, even more with a game like l2 that it's a very vast world compared with other mmorpgs.
And about if tanks would have heal skills at today, yes, you are right, should be a very difficult machone to knock down, like a raid as you said. But that's because the unsmart though design that GoD has.
And the healong tyrr skills... Yes i know, obiously it's not a support massive pvp. You know, i'm not stupid, i know all this heals are just for self/onetarget skill. All was about 1vs1. But i think you are just thinking on clan wars.
Tyrr Warrior's Power Revival imho comes from Dreadnought's. I don't see anything odd about it.
About healers nukes: Inquisitor stance was introduced with Gracia update(?), so I don't see anything weird about healers possessing nukes, either.
Quick OT: clan skills don't work inside Olympiad matches.
And doombringer too(body reconstruction). Second wind, comes from soul roar(doombringer) and batle roar/batle cry from all warriors (except tyrant/doombringer).
Never said that they used them in oly... On paper they could, but it was wiser to take Inquisitor only for PvE.
And talking about nukes on healers, augment nukes were available, so again, what's different from the current situation?
Remember that i said that in the past all classes were a little hybrid with different kind of skills but focused on on of them. That was the point of the thread: the supposedly deep specialization in one of them at the fourth profession. But they aren't indeed at all.
Do you understand me? I don't know if i was direct and concise!
And doombringer too(body reconstruction). Second wind, comes from soul roar(doombringer) and batle roar/batle cry from all warriors (except tyrant/doombringer).
I'll repeat this again because apparently the thread wasn't understand. :D
The point was: why do some classes like sigel knight and feoh wizards, are really focus on their job: tanking and magic damage, while other classes still having hybrid qualities like before 4th class?
The main developers do not take 1vs1 into consideration that much, that's why OLY was always such a mess, and GOD update was actualy the only time they considered improving 1vs1 and with that they sort of screwed the mass pvp (too much immunities and exagerated dmg), but people still don't like it.
edit:feoh is also a CC char, not just DD. Tank can go DD build and be good at DDing, just not on mass pvp.
The main developers do not take 1vs1 into consideration that much, that's why OLY was always such a mess, and GOD update was actualy the only time they considered improving 1vs1 and with that they sort of screwed the mass pvp (too much immunities and exagerated dmg), but people still don't like it.
edit:feoh is also a CC char, not just DD. Tank can go DD build and be good at DDing, just not on mass pvp.
Are you lisent to yourself? Tanks can go damage dealers too? That gives me all the reason, NCsoft stuff were drunk when they designed this!
Any class with amazing gear can go DD ever since what? interlude? As long as you had highly enchanted weapon, skills+++, and augment, what are you so suprised about? Even prophets could go DD with 4 augments on 4 weapons. This design has always been here, because it's an MMO with stacked multipliers over stats.
NC were drunk ever since they made the game. There's always uber flaws on EVERY chronicle, no reason to be surprised really.
Any class with amazing gear can go DD ever since what? interlude? As long as you had highly enchanted weapon, skills+++, and augment, what are you so suprised about? Even prophets could go DD with 4 augments on 4 weapons. This design has always been here, because it's an MMO with stacked multipliers over stats.
NC were drunk ever since they made the game. There's always uber flaws on EVERY chronicle, no reason to be surprised really.
But the difference was that in the past wasn't so easy to get amazing gear as you say. With those payment items like scrolls and what else, enchant 100% is more easy than before. Well you are right, you need to understand i' m a newbie yet in fact, but my criticism is not blowing on the wind!
That problem lies with NCwest..for example on innova best enchanted weapon R99 is +8 and theres less than 10 in total above +6 if i recall correctly. Their economy is also much more stable, and for example prices are WAY lower there cause there's less adena floating around, so things like double SA, augments, seed talisman and so on is much harder to get.
It's actually really hard to enchant if there's no pay2win, enchant rates got lowered a lot on r+ weapons..
Overall NA suffers from an uncaring Korea team for outsiders and an uncaring West team that can't manage it's own servers. Afterall ncwest summoners were guinea pigs too...
Also, regarding my position on the subject, i too, did not like the change to tanks, as i liked to multi-task with shilien templar, took me 1 year to miss playing my tank and did 1, and i like it and looking forward for lindvior to get part of that role back, the master debuffer!
Do not look forward to 1vs1 on lindvior as a nuker, but definitly look forward 1vs1 on big scale pvp. storm screamer + necro + archer+iss+healer will be epic trololol on the fields. I dunno if m def can go below 0 rofl
If you are QQing about feoh being weak, don't forget that it has the highest mobility IN THE ENTIRE GAME, faster than archer and rogue actually, it has powerful and constant means of dealing long ranged damage and crippling enemy's actions, so if you complain about that class, it just means you don't know how to play, nothing more than that.
BUT if you are complaining about the lack of variety throught the classes... Then i can agree to that extent.
Healers: got great healing skills, got SUMMONS, and got decent nukes.
Summoners: got great summon skills, got nukes.
Wizards: got "great" damage skills, lost healing skills, lost summon skills, lost buff skills.
healers summon is realy nonsence, but they dont do a lot dmg, anyway in oly is better tree...they got nuks bcose they have one in inqi for, in god update they loose inqi and just got nuk skills as normal (preawake skills have little liver power and same manacost as wizards skills, on 85 lvl nuk skill have more power then wizards one, 109power single target on healer vs 108 on wizards single target), on pregod chronicles healers use weapons with nuk augument ( but its alerdy writed there) , great healing skills? pregod healers have little lower power on skills, but players dont have so much hp so pregod was healing full hp faster then now, you may better write they got imba celest/pt celest, also sumon erase ( or how thiss skill named) work realy nice, in 3 try healer same lvl erase my summons with ud on oly...
summons are realy nice, but they dont have any sleep/shock/any other resist, same lvl tyrr/tank have 100% chance to stun them, healers sleep work great to... summoners loose summon celest ane skill for healing summons have realy low power, if they dont crit is realy not easy to heal attacked summon, and is impossible to heal all summons at same time...got nukes? are you kidding me? nuk have 5sec reuse, check skills of preawake DE summoner, they have death spike nuk with 0 reuse and 68 power and dimensional somethink with overhit (after awake they dont have anu OH skill) and little more power (idk how much now) and they have a some more power when target is not player ( total mby 120 if i remember corectly), preawake wizards nuk have just 108...anyway summoners loose cancel skills (i mean warior/mage bane) and ok they loose battleheal but its not summoners skill they have it bcose it starts befor elder/wizard class change.
wizards lost buff skills healing skills, lost summoning skill - summoner loose buff and heal skills to(this buffs are not summoner and not wizards skills, they ara on classes just bcose you got it on 1-19 level bcose you stil can be elder), lost summoning skills, wtf, someone use it on mages? sumons have 38 lvl if i remember correctly and are total useless from 48+ level (on 47 they stil can give mana if i remember correctly...) and again thet was not wizard skills, you have this skill only bcose you can choice summoner as class on 40 lvl. and yes feoh get realy great nukes, aoe skills with 200+ power befor awke only sorceror have 2 aoe skills and one have mby 64 and other 54 power, feohs nuk make -100 element resist so for same bonus dmg as other got from 300wep you need just have 200 wep, anyway on most chronicles wizards was good only on servers start, befor ppl got some top grade items, good augument,etc...on god chronicle endgame time little faster then on oldest chronicles (bcose noone can just farm 20years for equip and use A gr on 80 lvl so koreans make path to awakening with free timed items and now you dont need looking for spil to help you farm items, crafter with recept for try craft some item and then cry bcose you failed 20x item with 60% enchant chance, ofc there was blessed items but diference between bound/normal vs blessed is still lower then DC vs vesper)
tyrr, they are realy strong pvp dds now, a lot stuns with low reuse, barier (if i remember correct gk and glad loose barier skill when attack on pregod...), restore hps and zerk skill, i know all this skill have some warior befor to, but noone of them had they all, so i realy think tyrr need some nerf, berserk,boost,bear totem and barier is realy imba combo and when he dont kill you befor barier ends they stil can use full heal and try it again... if boost and zerk afect pve dmg to they will be like old destro, kill zaken in 10sec...
knights, they loose heal skills but got imba cubik with heal 10% hp every few sec (15sec mby?) and also they loose imba skills like touch/spirit of shilien, but tank are changed to tank role, not to buff, anyway they are realy imba now a lot UDs, imba kubik heal and good power on skills...i heard they got nerfed in livindor and get just 1/5 or 1/10 skill power ... so it will be ok i think ...
btw you forgot about daggers endless hide ( when enchanted +5 or +6 then have lowered reuse then bufftime so in oly they can funnkill with try all skills, some of they lethal and delete all cp and just hide to end (they can easy evade aoe skills bcose hide dont slow they speed) next think, they have realy big power on skills and if you dont wear heavy armor is realy hard to dont die in allskill kombo, robes go down in 3sec , on same lvl and same buffs ofc ....
and you forgot about yuls, they have now few aoe skills (if i remember right, old archers have aoe skills was only on 81+ level and with high reuse) and there a lot ppl cry about yuls incredible dmg with they can kill most classes in oly with 1 hit...
I miss non grade battle heal. It's silly but I really do! Its come in handy on many occasions b4 85, granted you aren't going to run into those instances much anymore but sometimes ... When there's just two mobs less and my hp is low and I'm soloing... I would love that non-grade heal lol!
The opener's analysis in regards to mages is completely offkilter.
Yes it is true that at level 44ish mages would still run around pretending to be healers but their ability to do so continuously continued with every level up the point where the damage was so large they might as well have not even bothered considering that their heal skill didn't level up past level 14 because mages weren't meant to be backup healers. The fact that they had a heal at all was only because NC wanted to give players some time to play around witha general class to figure out what they wanted to do before they had to select a specific class.
For example mages at the first class change got summons and nukes. But mages who became nukers weren't able to level their summons anymore and after level 60 those summons were completely nonviable. The fact that mages kept the summon skills they had before doing their second class change doesn't meant that they were intended to be hybrid nukers/summoners after the class change it just means that they had residual summoning skills. The same applies to the healing or buffing skills. And of course you have to take into account that mages always had huge mp problems. A mage didn't even have enough mp to cast nukes properly, casting nukes properly+healing would be entirely out the question.
Having residual skills isn't the same as being designed to be a hybrid where you were given skills with the specific intention that you could choose to do A well, B well or simultaenously A & B decently.
Unless you can seriously tell me that the only buffs you needed or wanted when hunting in HB were might 1, shield 1 and concentration 1?