~Request by redmen, cylon, Synthet1c~
Testing: Tyrr Dps with diff set of weapons
Question: so i like to know which weapons does most Dps in PvE and in PvP talking about
Pole
Dual blunt
Dual swords
2handed Sword
also i know Pole wont win at anything cus im basicly looking for single target Dps but u never know
Reason: cus i have my doubts Dual swords are really the King of single target dps, and since i have to spend ton of money and deal with random dps while it cost u nothing and u can turn off random damage off its much easier
Character A: Level 99 Human Tyrr Warrior
Character B: Level 99 Human Tyrr Warrior
Skills: Normal Attack and Megastrike w/ Momentum
Character Status: Soulshots, Lightning Force OFF, and Blessing of Protection OFF
Damage Test Notes: In order to test for raw damage output of these weapons, buffs, warrior cries, attributes, and SAs were not used. To clear up any possible confusion with dual weapon test results, the Normal Damage for each hit with the Dualsword, Dual Blunt Weapon, & Fighter has already been doubled for you.
DPS Test Note: Damage Per Second results are calculated from 100,000 normal hits and may slightly vary by 1-15 damage due to misses/crits. Hit probability can vary for normal hits/crits by 1%.
Weapons: +4/+15/+16 Amaranthine Dualsword, +4/+15/+16 Amaranthine Dual Blunt Weapon, +4/+15/+16 Amaranthine Fighter, +4/+15/+16 Amaranthine Stormer, and +4/+15/+16 Amaranthine Slasher
Tyvn Juji. The test and your work is nice. But sadly i have to say that this test isn't that usefull for normal dps.
Since if we consider buffs + items the cap for certain stats can be reached or nearly reached, which would change the result.
Tyvn Juji. The test and your work is nice. But sadly i have to say that this test isn't that usefull for normal dps.
Since if we consider buffs + items the cap for certain stats can be reached or nearly reached, which would change the result.
Yes, the stats + buffs will change the DPS results. I actually plan to do a 2nd version with full buffs and gear to compare.
That would be great. The result of fists was a bit of surprise :confused:
Indeed. I found out myself that Fists were great at PvP long ago. high DPS, fast att.speed, good accuracy as well.
But the point is because Juji turned off the trigger passive skill (lightning...). If it is on, Fists' trigger will be 12% att. speed (max 1500 with buffs already---> big waste) compared to 15% p.attk of other weapons. Means u'll loose a lot of p.attk and damage output.
However, in Lindvior they will change it to 15% p.attk like the others. For those who loves Fists : bravoooo
Well this is a nice test, but it misses 1 key piece, and i hope juji will include this in the next part. Unbuffed and with no bonus all avarage out, where abit more atk speed avarages out for slightly higher crit rate ect.
But the big changes come with u start to add crit dmg from rings ect, weapons with higher crit rate should get aheard, and leave specially pole in the dust when it comes for single target atleast.
Fully buffeed with trigger and all up and running, my estimate is for single target dmg would come out.
1. 2hs - possible to get 1500 atk.spd and 500 crit rate +15% patk from trigger.
2. dual swords - lacks crit rate compared to fists and 2hs, but for most parts HP makes up for lose, and 10% more dmg on aoe skills. gonna end higher then fists couse of trigger bonus.
2. fists - not possible to get 500 crit rate and trigger gives nothing.
4. dual blunt - nothing good to be said at all, but it will beat Pole.
5. pole arm. -pole will get far behind due to bad offensive SA's, if pole arm came with haste+health i would never use anything else :D
Looking forward to see how far juji is gonna take it, will he go all in with top epics(specialy 2x15% crit dmg rings), dyes, crit rate hat and all :D
The test is very useful if you are choosing the build for your tyrr and decide what item you should invest for your tyrr.
For example, the different between +4 and +15 is about 1600 damage over 27k damage.
So, in pvp, with buff SA etc. if u hit a heavy armor target, your damage is usually around 3k-4k. Scale down by the rate 1/8 (4k/27k), you can see the difference in damage of +4 and +15 weapon is only around 200 damage.
If your target is a light armor, you would probably make about 5k-6k skill damage. Scale down by the rate of 1/4 (6k/27k), the difference is 400 damage.
Note: the weapons that Juji tested are NORMAL, not bless
Therefore, is it worth to spend more than 20bil adena for a +15 weapon? you answer that ;)
p/s: additional information, I test in private sever, bless R99 +12 dual sword's P.attack is 1067, and +4 is 788
But I think it isn't a good idea to calculate with this test to longer term.
I mean as Cryo told some weeks ago, the Lindvior update will arrive to us in the next month.
As you all know there every class will get different bonuses to their specialized weapon(s) and bonus abilities too.
I guess if Juji has available client for the Lindvior he should make these tests with the Lindvior client and post the test results after when the Chapter 3 released.
Well this is a nice test, but it misses 1 key piece, and i hope juji will include this in the next part. Unbuffed and with no bonus all avarage out, where abit more atk speed avarages out for slightly higher crit rate ect.
But the big changes come with u start to add crit dmg from rings ect, weapons with higher crit rate should get aheard, and leave specially pole in the dust when it comes for single target atleast.
Fully buffeed with trigger and all up and running, my estimate is for single target dmg would come out.
1. 2hs - possible to get 1500 atk.spd and 500 crit rate +15% patk from trigger.
2. dual swords - lacks crit rate compared to fists and 2hs, but for most parts HP makes up for lose, and 10% more dmg on aoe skills. gonna end higher then fists couse of trigger bonus.
2. fists - not possible to get 500 crit rate and trigger gives nothing.
4. dual blunt - nothing good to be said at all, but it will beat Pole.
5. pole arm. -pole will get far behind due to bad offensive SA's, if pole arm came with haste+health i would never use anything else :D
Looking forward to see how far juji is gonna take it, will he go all in with top epics(specialy 2x15% crit dmg rings), dyes, crit rate hat and all :D
This is pretty much spot on except that you can actually get 500 crit rate with duals... Need crit rate hat, shirt augment, +4 duals, sub crit, enchanted gaiters (+6 gives about 24 while +8 gives about 54.. not sure about blessed gaiters) and you might also need crit augment on the duals but I don't think that's even necessary. Although I still wonder what kind of crit rate I could get out of blunts/fists with my current setup + a good augment on the weapon.
Another thing to take into account is the high miss rates... With full buffs they would equal out more so this would add damage to some of the weapons while fists/blunts would not gain much more dps from accuracy buffs. The 1% damage variance could be equalized just by some accuracy buffs alone.
i like this test a lot because once again it shows how much more importance is on playstyle and experience and to adapt your gear to you and not you adapting to your ("best possible") gear.
Everything in pve about warrior is Critical Rate to do real dammage on mobs. So this test without any crit or buff or anything just sucks bcause no one play like that .
dual sword = bad crit (no focus SA)
Dual blunt = bad crit (Dual blunt remove a lot of crit rate) just equipping it
Fighter = Bad crit ( Same as dual blunt )
Stormer = bad crit (no focus )
Slasher = (Focus and good crit rate !)
You guys are something else, especially you Mr. Legendary. Just tell me which epic gear you want on my character when testing (+6 Etenal Heavy Armor, Earth Wyrm Heart Ring, Tauti's Ring, +15 STR dyes...etc). This test is for you guys after all :D
i figure this is a great idea.
test a base blank slate character...
let people extrapolate based on preferences and character builds.
instead of testing everything.
however, there was a good point made about Caps.
thanks a lot.
no seriously, i meant that, maybe i should have said Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Everything in pve about warrior is Critical Rate to do real dammage on mobs. So this test without any crit or buff or anything just sucks bcause no one play like that .
dual sword = bad crit (no focus SA)
Dual blunt = bad crit (Dual blunt remove a lot of crit rate) just equipping it
Fighter = Bad crit ( Same as dual blunt )
Stormer = bad crit (no focus )
Slasher = (Focus and good crit rate !)
You are right... but with crit rate hat, augmented shirt, augmented weapon, OE gaiters, etc etc it is possible to get 500 crit rate with every weapon.
With crit rate hat full buff lvl 3 Focus weapon with +25 crit aug i reach only 410 crit rate (with feral bear cry) 465 with istina ring so idk how u can have 500 without focus weapon u have to explain me ;)
PS: dont do test with tauti or earth wyrm or any jewel that cost over 30B in game cause less than 1% player have that i think so ....
With crit rate hat full buff lvl 3 Focus weapon with +25 crit aug i reach only 410 crit rate (with feral bear cry) 465 with istina ring so idk how u can have 500 without focus weapon u have to explain me ;)
PS: dont do test with tauti or earth wyrm or any jewel that cost over 30B in game cause less than 1% player have that i think so ....
You know I can test at 500 Crit Rate and 1500 Attack Speed without adding any equipment, dyes, or jewels.
That would be an interesting test.... You also need AQ/Baium for the test too :P
Lvl 4 ISS buffs, Soulshots, 500 Crit Rate/1500 Attack Speed, Queen Ant Ring, and Baium Ring?
Can you test DPS with Tauti's 2h Blunt, and Dual Blunts with the same test please.
Additional:
I'm very curious on how a 2 handed blunt would work now for a Tyrr Warrior, seeing as how there isn't any besides Mage 2h Blunts now - They used to have base 10x crit damage, and if I'm right - a Tyrr free-swinging on Berserker with trasken+tauti or any 2x CD jewels should be a beast. People keep shutting me down saying "2h blunts are garbage" - I mean yeah, of course they are since there is no R grade and above ones besides for mages. So how would they know? >.>
So if you could also test the Tauti's 2h blunt with Berserker on, Baium+AQ rings, Bear stance (or hawk works too), +15 STR dyes& Full buffs that'd be awesome :D
(would be even more awesome if you could post crit damage DPS with every weapon you've posted here and the same buffs/stats also) but I wont ask that much.
I suggest we create a new request that takes some use cases for "how do I maximize melee raid dps with tyr warrior".
Pick a raid like extreme tauti and let juji get creative on stacking up a Tyrr to try and max out DPS (should include conventional and exotic equipment configurations).
Exotic: +15 Blessed Weapon [2SA], Tauti Ring, Trasken, Blessed Valakas, ISS Lv4 Buffs, +10 Class Skills, 300 element
Conventional: +4 Bound Weapon [2SA], Ant Queen, Baium, ISS Lv4 Buffs, +5 Class Skills, 300 element
SA's should prefer focus / haste where applicable.
Assume a party member is actively proc'ing the tyrrs counter critical trigger.
We would need to compare this to an archer with similar stackage.
Lol this topic got ruined...... To the person who's wants to sry Tauti's blunts they are better than dual swords etc ... From my knowledge dual swords only use for them is ther dual Sa health and haste. Which all tauti's weapon give read the info when u click over one increase atk speed increase health etc etc plus u get an extra skill Tauti's rage..... No need to test that due to the fact dual blunts hit harder than dual swords judging my Juji's original test. This is just my opinion and from the knowledge I know.
Btw for those who question s grade dual swords don't use them unless who have duelist spirit or decent attack speed. If your an Orc don't use them ur attack speed is slow unless you use savage but regardless savage is 1 minute. If your a Kamael like me you could get away with it due to the fact our attack speed is decent even without duelist. Other than that good luck attempting oly if ur attack speed is slow.
Lol this topic got ruined...... To the person who's wants to sry Tauti's blunts they are better than dual swords etc ... From my knowledge dual swords only use for them is ther dual Sa health and haste. Which all tauti's weapon give read the info when u click over one increase atk speed increase health etc etc plus u get an extra skill Tauti's rage..... No need to test that due to the fact dual blunts hit harder than dual swords judging my Juji's original test. This is just my opinion and from the knowledge I know.
Btw for those who question s grade dual swords don't use them unless who have duelist spirit or decent attack speed. If your an Orc don't use them ur attack speed is slow unless you use savage but regardless savage is 1 minute. If your a Kamael like me you could get away with it due to the fact our attack speed is decent even without duelist. Other than that good luck attempting oly if ur attack speed is slow.
You dont use s grade duals to pve with ever .. Even when you are a 76 gladiator you use a heavens divider +Focus. The reason we use sg duals is they have a huge health boost and patk doesnt really matter for momentum skills unless you have a +16 blessed weapon and are in berserker rage <30% hp. {PvP} refinement from old duals adds approx 10% damage in pvp, combined with the SA 5% gives a very nice skill power boost.
DPS Test Note: Damage Per Second results are calculated from 100,000 normal hits and may slightly vary by 1-15 damage due to misses/crits. Hit probability can vary for normal hits/crits by 1%.
if the test was made from 100,000 hits... how can we call this DPS test?
i mean if there were tested the same amount of hits on every weapon, the attack speed don,t make any difference.. appart of that very interesting test.
something that impressed me. is that the dual weapons looks like have a kind of pasive bonus on skill damage... (if u watch the skill damage between duals/fists and slasher, duals/fists have better skill damage... but the dps test (normal hits) the slasher wins...)
well i wanna see the buffed test too, but not with crit rate 500 and attack speed 1500.
with that stats you can guess the results..
You dont use s grade duals to pve with ever .. Even when you are a 76 gladiator you use a heavens divider +Focus. The reason we use sg duals is they have a huge health boost and patk doesnt really matter for momentum skills unless you have a +16 blessed weapon and are in berserker rage <30% hp. {PvP} refinement from old duals adds approx 10% damage in pvp, combined with the SA 5% gives a very nice skill power boost.
Wasnt talking about PVE.... Was talking about pvp use (guess I should of stated that)....
can u explain me the point to Test it with 1500 atk speed and 500 crit rate when ppl cant reach that
Dont make the test with full akt speed and crit rate it is ridiculous because each weapon has different crit rate and pole has less atk speed
exemple: if u test duals and slasher with same crit rate it wont be same in game since slasher has more crit ... and same for other weap
Duals and slasher is very easy to get max crit rate and atk speed.. full buffs + rudolf buff + tank aura + level 2 solidarity + haste sa + crit rate hat + oe gaiters (the higher the better) + hellfire talisman + sub crit rate and attack speed + baium + augmented shirt crit rate + augmented weapon w/ crit rate + crit sa on dual blunts if you use blunts.. if you missed out on the rudolf agathion then you could use a letter collector for the last bit of attack speed.. anyways you can reach max crit rate and attack speed with any of the tyrr weapon choices.. with dual blunts i can get almost 450 and that's without an augment on the weapon. I have ~1470 attack speed with a pole when I solo exp... I only use attack speed talisman with a pole since it's a lot harder to cap attack speed with.
Max attack speed really doesn't matter so much for the test so long as they are all the same attack speed. If they was all max crit rate then it would help test the actual damage of the weapon. Another thing that can greatly affect your damage is lightning force process.. the more hits per second the better chance it procs and levels up.. So Duals (dual blunts, dual swords , and fists) even with the same attack speed should out damage a slasher. lightning force is most probably the reason fists won out in the original test because of the atk speed modifier in the proc. As stated before it's not that hard to get max stats hence the reason i requested the test that way.
the test need to be made in a time frame, like 1 minute or something.
some weapons are faster with haste SA, other weapons don't have this SA. in a minute time frame, the weapons with haste will yield more hits so its not fair to count 100k hits. health SA is irrelevant but focus or damage up should be used if available.
you can try some test with exotic gear like Diego suggested but another test should be made with real and "affordable" gear. +6 armor set, +4 weapons with dual SA, queen ant and baium, crit rate hat, talisman lesser than longing, some shirt, no augments at all, add clan buff, add enchanted passives, add soulshots.
this wont include many warriors out there but its closer to the real dps of different weapons.
Lvl 4 ISS buffs, Soulshots, 500 Crit Rate/1500 Attack Speed, Queen Ant Ring, and Baium Ring?
That sound good?
nah sounds terrible
1500 attack speed and 500 crit rate are no good..
just do normal legit way
buffs + bear totem
then test all weapons
obviously if u do 500 crit rate on all weaps it tells me nothing
in my case i only have buffs and less then 500 crit rate cus its just a alt
i do have crit rate hat but others might not
so if u pump perma 500 crit rate and 1500 attack speed
dual blunts win what does this proof? nothing to me cus i cant get these stats ;)
i need normal way like every other player is no boss jewels no +6 pants
just buffs , armor , weap > hit something:
dps dual sword : 2 (haste health sa)
dps dual blunt : 1 (damage + focus sa)
dps 2hander : 3 (haste + damage)
dps pole : 1 (damage + w/e dont know second sa's for poles)
these are most common setups people use IF they go 2 SA's
etc thats normal test and tells players whats better people can update their stats over yours making these test not change alot if you go around with 500 crit rate on all weaps most of people get test results that make no sense when they buy the stuff for their toon (weap wise no1 going to buy a trasken or w/e for their toon in order to get the dps u got)
thats my opinion imo.. u dont test stuff which is unreachable for 99% of the players.
i dont understand what people want here
its like asking what does more dps 1500 attack speed bow vs 1500 attack speed crossbow
this test doesnt even require a test cus every1 knows bow wins thats why i said its worse way to test something
i dont need to know which weap is best when u pump all stats to max
i want to know which weap is the best on a "normal" toon aka
immortal set
weapon from above list
and spank away.
by testing ^^^^^^this u as player can always add crit rate hat, +6 pants or w/e else boost your stats, in order to make other weaps do more dps..
if let say dual blunt does 2k dps / sec
and dual sword does 2,5k dps / sec
then any non braindead guy knows if u add +6 pants + istina ring + crit rate hat (w/e it takes to get equal or more crit rate) the dual blunt will be doing more dps..
thus why i need normal test results not boosted up stats crap :)
obviously if u do 500 crit rate on all weaps it tells me nothing
in my case i only have buffs and less then 500 crit rate cus its just a alt
i do have crit rate hat but others might not
so if u pump perma 500 crit rate and 1500 attack speed
dual blunts win what does this proof? nothing to me cus i cant get these stats ;)
i need normal way like every other player is no boss jewels no +6 pants
just buffs , armor , weap > hit something:
dps dual sword : 2 (haste health sa)
dps dual blunt : 1 (damage + focus sa)
dps 2hander : 3 (haste + damage)
dps pole : 1 (damage + w/e dont know second sa's for poles)
these are most common setups people use IF they go 2 SA's
etc thats normal test and tells players whats better people can update their stats over yours making these test not change alot if you go around with 500 crit rate on all weaps most of people get test results that make no sense when they buy the stuff for their toon (weap wise no1 going to buy a trasken or w/e for their toon in order to get the dps u got)
thats my opinion imo.. u dont test stuff which is unreachable for 99% of the players.
i dont understand what people want here
its like asking what does more dps 1500 attack speed bow vs 1500 attack speed crossbow
this test doesnt even require a test cus every1 knows bow wins thats why i said its worse way to test something
i dont need to know which weap is best when u pump all stats to max
i want to know which weap is the best on a "normal" toon aka
immortal set
weapon from above list
and spank away.
by testing ^^^^^^this u as player can always add crit rate hat, +6 pants or w/e else boost your stats, in order to make other weaps do more dps..
if let say dual blunt does 2k dps / sec
and dual sword does 2,5k dps / sec
then any non braindead guy knows if u add +6 pants + istina ring + crit rate hat (w/e it takes to get equal or more crit rate) the dual blunt will be doing more dps..
thus why i need normal test results not boosted up stats crap :)
Actually if all stats are equal (crit rate and atk speed) then you could do the math and figure out what crit rate/atk speed you would have with each weapon and figure out what would be the best dps setup for you. If you choose to do the test with varying stats it will be much harder to do the proper math to figure out what might be best for you.
Duals and slasher is very easy to get max crit rate and atk speed.. full buffs + rudolf buff + tank aura + level 2 solidarity + haste sa + crit rate hat + oe gaiters (the higher the better) + hellfire talisman + sub crit rate and attack speed + baium + augmented shirt crit rate + augmented weapon w/ crit rate + crit sa on dual blunts if you use blunts.. if you missed out on the rudolf agathion then you could use a letter collector for the last bit of attack speed.. anyways you can reach max crit rate and attack speed with any of the tyrr weapon choices.. with dual blunts i can get almost 450 and that's without an augment on the weapon. I have ~1470 attack speed with a pole when I solo exp... I only use attack speed talisman with a pole since it's a lot harder to cap attack speed with.
You do realize you contradict yourself in the first few lines. Every halfwit could figure "oh I'll just buy every crit rate/atk speed boost available". The test requests were about a standard gear, if credit card users would like a test with capped stats then such should be requested.
You do realize you contradict yourself in the first few lines. Every halfwit could figure "oh I'll just buy every crit rate/atk speed boost available". The test requests were about a standard gear, if credit card users would like a test with capped stats then such should be requested.
I did not contradict myself. you can get max crit/atk speed without L2 store items. i stated most of the ways to obtain just that. There are also many talisman you can use.
If Juji can do his tests with damage variation turned off and supply the regular hits and critical hits and also supply the % of misses with each weapon then you could easily figure out your approximate dps using your projected crit rate/atk speed with your current or future setup.
Actually if all stats are equal (crit rate and atk speed) then you could do the math and figure out what crit rate/atk speed you would have with each weapon and figure out what would be the best dps setup for you. If you choose to do the test with varying stats it will be much harder to do the proper math to figure out what might be best for you.
it doesnt show anything like i said
in a simple way
bow 1500 attack speed 500 crit rate
vs
xbow 1500 attack speed 500 crit rate
now u can guess who does most dps
while in real case no1 has 1500 attack speed (perma) with a bow while Xbow has alot more attack speed advantage over the bow thus making up dps that bow lacks in attack speed
same goes with tyrr weaps
dual swords have higher crit rate then dual blunts
but dual blunts crit harder
now if u suggest juji to test both of them at 1500 / 500 attack speed / crit rate
then its kinda obvious dual blunt wins while 90% of players in l2 will not be able to ding 500 crit rate with dual blunt (i dont even know if its possible)
thus juji is going to pump false stats into l2 making people lose money thinkin dual blunt is good while in fact its **** cus of low crit rate..
i just want base stats test no bs buffs or bs jewels added people can add these them self if they have enough adena and they can do simple math them self :S
in a simple way
bow 1500 attack speed 500 crit rate
vs
xbow 1500 attack speed 500 crit rate
now u can guess who does most dps
while in real case no1 has 1500 attack speed (perma) with a bow while Xbow has alot more attack speed advantage over the bow thus making up dps that bow lacks in attack speed
same goes with tyrr weaps
dual swords have higher crit rate then dual blunts
but dual blunts crit harder
now if u suggest juji to test both of them at 1500 / 500 attack speed / crit rate
then its kinda obvious dual blunt wins while 90% of players in l2 will not be able to ding 500 crit rate with dual blunt (i dont even know if its possible)
thus juji is going to pump false stats into l2 making people lose money thinkin dual blunt is good while in fact its **** cus of low crit rate..
i just want base stats test no bs buffs or bs jewels added people can add these them self if they have enough adena and they can do simple math them self :S
It does not have to be a test with max stats... Just full buffs and 2 crit dmg rings since everyone has that.. If all stats are the same whether it be 500 atk speed and 100 crit rate or whatever.. You can do the math and figure out what dps would be with your setup. Everyone has different attack speeds and crit rates. I am not very good at spread sheets or I would offer to make one if Juji was able to do a few tests with bear cry and 0 crit rate... Tell the % miss with each weapon, the dps for each weapon, and tell the normal hit and critical hit (with damage variance off) then people could easily figure out what the best dps would be for their setup. Yes 500 crit rate is possible with dual blunts... without an augment on my pole I have 450+ crit rate... 450 is definitely attainable with blunts.. The only variable that is hard to figure out is lightning force.