Hi... iam a tank and i got a apo cutter+4 2sa 300 element... ive heard many times that p.atak does not afect in skill dmg.. so what ia the point on changin my weapon if i will do the exact dmg with both of them?
Ty in advance.
R95 / R99 weapon : More patk, so a bit more damage on auto attack / skills.
However, dual SA will give 5% more pvp damage than one SA. It's far easier to get Dual SA on Apocalypse stuff. I would say to keep your current weapon since it's already nice enough
Can u please explain that?? Because if u are refering to the auto atak diference... its like 20 more dmg on the r95 weapon... so it would be stupid to spend 2b on that... and as far as i know... the p.atak of the weapon does not affect the power of the skill right??
Thats why i've seen some lvl 99 tanks with s grade swords.
Well I checked some time ago the dps difference using the physical punch machine between the legacy sword and my apoc sword and the difference was of about 100~150 dps(to put it in perspective, on my tyrr when I change between cries the dps difference is higher) so don't really see the point of anything higher than apoc(unless you can pvp an amaranthine), but I'm sure Draecke can give you a way better answer since he's a DD tank.
If p atk does not afect power of skill..nobody would spend thousands $ on buying weapon +12+++.
If u think that... please explain me why there are lvl 99 tanks with s grade swords... i've asked them... and they all told me that p.atak does not afent skill pwr... and i think in this type of games... rich people will spend tons of money in order to look more "powerfool" even tho i can do the exact sane amoun of dmg with my little apo sword...
Sorry about my english :rolleyes:
If u think that... please explain me why there are lvl 99 tanks with s grade swords... i've asked them... and they all told me that p.atak does not afent skill pwr... and i think in this type of games... rich people will spend tons of money in order to look more "powerfool" even tho i can do the exact sane amoun of dmg with my little apo sword...
Sorry about my english :rolleyes:
Patk does impact skill power, but not to the same extent for all classes/skills.
Many tanks can get away with a crappy weapon because they don't really care. They only play in parties and don't need damage. There are also other potential reasons to use an S grade weapon, like having it PVP'd and getting the additional PvP damage (which will add to skill damage even if the weapon patk doesn't mean much).
But a better weapon is useful for solo, and "slightly" helps out with generating more aggro on single targets (raids mostly) as more damage = more aggro generation. It can be a pain to keep aggro with a whole party of stacked DD's, so every little bit helps.
Then of course if you are serious about oly/end game PvP you would work for an r99 PvP'd weapon so you can do even more damage when needed.
So there are reasons why you would go for better weapons as a tank... it's just that the way you play it may make them meaningless.
Patk does impact skill power, but not to the same extent for all classes/skills.
Many tanks can get away with a crappy weapon because they don't really care. They only play in parties and don't need damage. There are also other potential reasons to use an S grade weapon, like having it PVP'd and getting the additional PvP damage (which will add to skill damage even if the weapon patk doesn't mean much).
But a better weapon is useful for solo, and "slightly" helps out with generating more aggro on single targets (raids mostly) as more damage = more aggro generation. It can be a pain to keep aggro with a whole party of stacked DD's, so every little bit helps.
Then of course if you are serious about oly/end game PvP you would work for an r99 PvP'd weapon so you can do even more damage when needed.
So there are reasons why you would go for better weapons as a tank... it's just that the way you play it may make them meaningless.
Thank you very much for ur answer... its more clear to me now :)
also and am surprised nobody mentioned it yet but it's much cheaper to get reflect damage passive on a non R grade weapon which is /win on a tank..
the only reason to upgrade weapons to get higher patt is for pve/DPS reasons and/or if you intend to farm Oly but Oly means getting high oe R99 weapon + having reflect damage passive on it which is insanely expensive..
in essence a tank with S grade hp sa weapon that's pvp'd and has reflect damage can be very effective in pvp as indeed skill damage isn't that highly impacted by patt.
ps, as am a DPS build tank I can tell you at end game level your regular crits will be much stronger then skill crits but the investment to get there is hardcore and really to be a decent Tank you don't need to go that such extremes - that's all pure choice/play style (mine is quite crazy)
also and am surprised nobody mentioned it yet but it's much cheaper to get reflect damage passive on a non R grade weapon which is /win on a tank..
the only reason to upgrade weapons to get higher patt is for pve/DPS reasons and/or if you intend to farm Oly but Oly means getting high oe R99 weapon + having reflect damage passive on it which is insanely expensive..
in essence a tank with S grade hp sa weapon that's pvp'd and has reflect damage can be very effective in pvp as indeed skill damage isn't that highly impacted by patt.
ps, as am a DPS build tank I can tell you at end game level your regular crits will be much stronger then skill crits but the investment to get there is hardcore and really to be a decent Tank you don't need to go that such extremes - that's all pure choice/play style (mine is quite crazy)
Gonna have to respectively disagree with this last part. I am also a DPS tank and even when I max out my pattack (over 9k) skill crits still hit MUCH harder than regular hits. The only exception to this is when I have Knights Frenzy up and I get the +50% crit damage for bunts (I have a +12 Blessed Spectre Avenger). Even then skill crits still hit harder, just not by much.
+10 enchanted skills for PvP > any white damage (on tank ofc).
EDIT: To the OP, +4 Req/Apoc with health/haste and 300 element is all you need. This is coming from a guy who literally wasted 20 DEWR on making a +12 R95 weapon. You simply don't need p. attack on a tank (but you DO NEED STR).
also and am surprised nobody mentioned it yet but it's much cheaper to get reflect damage passive on a non R grade weapon which is /win on a tank..
the only reason to upgrade weapons to get higher patt is for pve/DPS reasons and/or if you intend to farm Oly but Oly means getting high oe R99 weapon + having reflect damage passive on it which is insanely expensive..
in essence a tank with S grade hp sa weapon that's pvp'd and has reflect damage can be very effective in pvp as indeed skill damage isn't that highly impacted by patt.
ps, as am a DPS build tank I can tell you at end game level your regular crits will be much stronger then skill crits but the investment to get there is hardcore and really to be a decent Tank you don't need to go that such extremes - that's all pure choice/play style (mine is quite crazy)
xD!! So what would you recomend me if i want to be a competitive tank in oly? Go for dps like you? For example now i wear a 5% defense belt... if i want to go dps should i change it for 5% skill dmg and also my amor set for atak type?
Gonna have to respectively disagree with this last part. I am also a DPS tank and even when I max out my pattack (over 9k) skill crits still hit MUCH harder than regular hits. The only exception to this is when I have Knights Frenzy up and I get the +50% crit damage for bunts (I have a +12 Blessed Spectre Avenger). Even then skill crits still hit harder, just not by much.
+10 enchanted skills for PvP > any white damage (on tank ofc).
EDIT: To the OP, +4 Req/Apoc with health/haste and 300 element is all you need. This is coming from a guy who literally wasted 20 DEWR on making a +12 R95 weapon. You simply don't need p. attack on a tank (but you DO NEED STR).
PVP or PVE crits ? cause at PVE its very much true, at PVP a lil less so as Vanguard doesn't work then obviously but still at 12+k patt with max crit rate and all the crit damage mods I have with +10 skills on duel I still crit harder with reg hits but tend to spam skills regardless for burst DPS.. dunno if it's cause I have a +16 Bless Cutter versus your blunt o0?
What's your total STR ? mine is at 125 and I'm a light elf.. just tested a DA-Sigul & SK-Sigul on RU PTS and saw the STR I could have had on a dark elf lmao but then again I love emo elfs :D
xD!! So what would you recomend me if i want to be a competitive tank in oly? Go for dps like you? For example now i wear a 5% defense belt... if i want to go dps should i change it for 5% skill dmg and also my amor set for atak type?
no offense but serious Oly farming only very few players can afford, it requires lots of dedication and rolling the strongest builds/gear set up etc.
the cost can be if the NC Gods are against you insanely high..
- need to have max damage reflect, skills (DA) / Passive Reflect on main weapon/Active Reflect
- +15 Legendary dyes
- High OE R99 weapon 2x Sa'd, pvp'd asap when lindvior is out
- +6 Bless Armor R95 if you go with the 5% Skill damage else +6 R99 with 20% PVP reduction once it's PVP'd
- all serious epics for your class (hint in Lindvior this changes a little cause we get more improved ones)
- Clan Cloak/Castle Cloak and be in main clan
- Longing Talisman
- Ruler Belt
- all skills +10 (duel/land rate)
prolly forgot a few things but the above is no joke, there will be tanks that have all of the above and good luck beating those..
also Oly is all about clan/constant party feeds so even if you can beat such tank you still have to deal with that as well.. unless ofc you have a large clan that can feed you as well but then you won't need any of the above gear either :P
just saying see Oly as a place for some fun pvp, dont take it to serious and try for hero unless your willing to deal with all of the other crap tied to it too ^^"
more "powerfool" even tho i can do the exact sane amoun of dmg with my little apo sword...
I'd love to know where you got that data.
You make same dmg comparing apo+4 with amarantine +7?
This " OEd doesnt increase skill power" is but a myth. else ppl with +12 weapons wouldnt be hiting others for over 10k easy (with a tank).
And when u keep hex cubic from SK..you see the diference.
well in lindvior keeping old SK cubics means not learning Knight frenzy which would be dumb as the new cubics are pretty amazing and u can have only 3 up max..
and yes I did test this on RU PTS, had up 3 old ones then launched the new ones and imo the new ones looks much better :)
PVP or PVE crits ? cause at PVE its very much true, at PVP a lil less so as Vanguard doesn't work then obviously but still at 12+k patt with max crit rate and all the crit damage mods I have with +10 skills on duel I still crit harder with reg hits but tend to spam skills regardless for burst DPS.. dunno if it's cause I have a +16 Bless Cutter versus your blunt o0?
What's your total STR ? mine is at 125 and I'm a light elf.. just tested a DA-Sigul & SK-Sigul on RU PTS and saw the STR I could have had on a dark elf lmao but then again I love emo elfs :D
I have 130 Str on Human Tank.
Like I said, with the exception of when I have Knights Frenzy on, my skills hit harder than white damage crits.
weird, now am kind of curious do you also have that in PVE aka versus mobs ? just wonder how my crit modifier is so much higher ^^"
I thought about this again and on second thought you might be right about white damage crits > skills with max p attack setup BUT before I agree/disagree let me put some qualifiers out there.
I have Octavis Ring, Istina Ring and an AQ but I don't use the AQ anymore because of crap m def (only use AQ in oly against other tanks).
When I PvE all I ever do is aggression (both +10 for hex) and shield charge and TBH I never pay attention to skill damage.
In pvp the only class I ever use white damage against is other tanks in oly. This is only inbetween skills waiting for reset. Technically you can constantly cycle skills in oly (with Evas Rune) but in end game tank matches MP is a very big issue so I try to only use cheaper single target skills and white damage inbetween. Now against tanks, skills do considerably more damage than regular crits, but tanks have numerous crit reduction additives (Iron Aura, Hvy Armor Mastery).
In open PvP I will concede that regular crits may infact do more damage but I have never used them because I think the numerous debuffs our skills do and the slight range our AOEs have is superior to the added damage crits might give. And like you said, skills put out more burst damage so I will stand by my previous statement that Skills > White damage but, I will add that this applies to pvp only.
Infact I will hazard a guess that a +4 Apoc tank will out damage a +16 Bless Apoc tank if he does skills and the other only relies on white damage. I also believe that a SKILL crit (double damage skill attack) will do more damage than a regular crit. That is why I am a firm believer in STR build tanks.
a decent tank ofc knows when to do what per situation ;)
btw I fully agree on the STR statement but I've been getting feedback from Korea that things have changed there, STR no longer influences skills and that's why they all went +15 CON again.. been unable to verify this as the dyes system is bugged on RU PTS ><"
for me this will prolly not matter much cause my play style is more diverse but for you it might Rodah..