It seems if every team will be allowed to BR before the countdown the fights will be over pretty quick.
We want to matches to be nice and intense. Not allowing rez, allowing TWO BR's in a match is making the viewing not enjoyable.
Consider taking away this double BR, or if you are going to to a Bad Tournament then at least announce it as such.
Looking at the match and at the rules: it seems the skills are reset at SECOND 1. During Countdown means when the countdown STARTS in MOST PLACES IN THE WORLD. Not at the end? Should have been reset at number FIVE. so people DON'T abuse this.
Even more: this is the same team that tried to abuse having salvation and got called on it and had to have it removed. So this team is looking for loopholes and breaking rules. GM's should check this and grant a rematch. (Of only 1 match, should be quick!)
ya in my match they did BR , which is a 10 min reuse skill and its how you kill parties. And at second ONE they had it up, then 40 seconds into the right they cast it AGAIN. This is a clear abuse of skill reset and not how an actual fight will go
Rematch for cleraly doing offensive skills and doing skills with abuse of reset of skills
Also GMs saying skills will be reset DURRING count down, not AFTER count down. Cant even follow your own rules...
what was GOOD about all the tournament? no message to get up with feathered/noble bug/wall bug/ress bug/healer playing vs tank no buff on 1vs1/ ... more? DQ a mage (after so many did it by mistake too) cause they cant fix a wall and mage using blink (mage skill with his range) go out of arena by not his fault except he want to survive , w8ing so many time after they DQ that mage so tank (not the OP class) get back on reuse all his skill ... any gm who doing this "event" are clueless and cant do a simple job , they even say ppl getting ressed , but everyone , who play or who watch can EASY see they get up ONLY from feathered . im sure if the rewards wasnt so cool , no1 was doing it except GM , like juji vs cryo ....
forgot to say , if u wanna do event for let ppl enjoi ur game / try to get more ppl , go learn how russian /innova do the event , how they stream the event . when ppl see ncwest/innova/russian fraps event who u think look so BAD?
I made my post in the other thread... but honestly would just like a whole re-do of all today's matches. It was AMAZINGLY bad. I understand it was 5 hours of GMs weekend trying to run this event for us, but it really had way too many flaws to consider this battletournament day a fair competition...
To move on from today keeping broken ISS/healer skill resurrections, random timed matches, skill reset abuse that is not normally doable in any in-game scenario is just stupid.
No, This was the team that tried to glitch salvation and got caught. Furthermore couple this with the "oops we forgot to allow rezes" of the 7v7 and it becomes a big problem.
and this is not strategy... if it were a strategy we would be able to replicate this and practice this strategy on retail :)
its funy how the teams that won wont defend of say anything to help themselfs, or if they stay quiet it will go away ? lol
From the moment you saw the gear available, skills, classes and races on the event server, you had to understand strategies would be different.
There are people good at adapting on different situation and other copycats.
One last thing, It's not allowed to have a player from one team playing another character in a second team.
I don't see the point of screaming BR not allowed etc etc, it is a buff used before the reset. It was used more in the qualifications, no actions where taken. Only thing fair now would leave it as it is. You guys all use skills up front of the reset, not 1 action was taken against it.
So STOP CRYING getting so sick of all these tears.
From the moment you saw the gear available, skills, classes and races on the event server, you had to understand strategies would be different.
There are people good at adapting on different situation and other copycats.
One last thing, It's not allowed to have a player from one team playing another character in a second team.
Actually, I'm quite sure every other team thought of it, and assumed it would result in a disqualification. I can assure you my team did from day 1.
Lets be nice and say it should just be a rematch, if the offending team won. It would even be logical to disqualify the offenders, since it was an exploit done on purpose.
NCSoft said skills will be reset during the countdown, not after it. This affects the match strategy immensely, and was a very unfair advantage for someone willing to risk the DQ.
Also interesting fight coming up with everyone 1min of BR. Not worth watching, seems GM's managed to mess one more thing up for everyone.
This was just the last straw.
Be ready for party UD, BR, Celestial shield all at the beginning, and if they don't get reset then rematch because the reset of skills properly like they expected.
Back in the days they used to ban people who would perch in rocks and kill mobs. because while it was doable an EXPLOIT is not be used. Same happened with spezion.
if ur worried about it then why wont they rematch? oh wait thats right when they DIDNT double BR they lost , like the first 1v1. good to know they cant beat us and have to rely on a glitch of skills reset .
useing a strategy is DIFFERNT then using an exploit :) which is what happend, exploiting the skill reset
if ur worried about it then why wont they rematch? oh wait thats right when they DIDNT double BR they lost , like the first 1v1. good to know they cant beat us and have to rely on a glitch of skills reset .
useing a strategy is DIFFERNT then using an exploit :) which is what happend, exploiting the skill reset
Sure you proven to like completely destroy team Dismiss first match, from my point of view it was very close fight the first match. And if you are really so good why you got smoked in 1 vs 1 lineup then?
And it goes around you had Martelx playing your tyr... isn't that a disqualification? Since martelx is in another team in the tournament, so pro Ishmila. (Hope gm's can see that IP)
Fact stays BR is a buff and it was casted before the countdown.
Crybaby's this whole tournament, if i would be ncsoft i would just NEVER organize a event like this again.
in a real fight i never saw someone having 2nd br the next minute, unless there were 2 iss in group. lets go ahead with buff, then why do you delete rumbo's self buff and that healer buffs in 1vs1?
4:45:09 Countdown begins
4:45:10 enchanter (danceres) mana decreases, as with the start of BR, then decreases a lot with the finish of BR
4:45:14 Match starts, with 25ish seconds of BR, with the skill refreshed on dismiss party
4:45:47 danceres casts BR again, you can see it clearly in the screen
It was done during countdown, it is very clear if you watch the mana bars. This is not only an exploit, but its a violation of not "starting during the countdown" which is an official rule of the tournament.
I'd put money on ilucie using knight frenzy and the archer using minds eye and quickfire and ue before the match started too. This was a coordinated effort to exploit the tournament, obviously.
4:45:09 Countdown begins
4:45:10 enchanter (danceres) mana decreases, as with the start of BR, then decreases a lot with the finish of BR
4:45:14 Match starts, with 25ish seconds of BR, with the skill refreshed on dismiss party
It was done during countdown, it is very clear if you watch the mana bars. This is not only an exploit, but its a violation of not "starting during the countdown" which is an official rule of the tournament.
I'd put money on ilucie using knight frenzy and the archer using minds eye and quickfire and ue before the match started too. This was a coordinated effort to exploit the tournament, obviously.
u can see also healer buff bar , she get br at 1sec before start.
so i don't get where is the problem? all skills when match starts reuse is set to 0 (for example br rebirth and others with 10mins or more reuse) or what? if no there is one explanation - read dual weapon mastery description. else dismiss team is smarter than these forum warriors.
so i don't get where is the problem? all skills when match starts reuse is set to 0 (for example br rebirth and others with 10mins or more reuse) or what? if no there is one explanation - read dual weapon mastery description. else dismiss team is smarter than these forum warriors.
then why delete other buffs before cd and let this br go on. not to mention it was casted during the countdown which they dont have to do any actions.
you really want to go with skill mastery? +15 str and never seen br reset a single time in a year, now it is happening on tournament. these smart forum warriors...
so i don't get where is the problem? all skills when match starts reuse is set to 0 (for example br rebirth and others with 10mins or more reuse) or what? if no there is one explanation - read dual weapon mastery description. else dismiss team is smarter than these forum warriors.
dismiss was not smarter, they violated a clear rule of the tournament:
Do not start before the countdown finishes.
Lets be honest, everyone thought about doing it, but assumed it would be a DQ.
Watch the replay before you talk, it was casted again and the logs show it.
so maybe change rules to: players can start fight and buffs after countdown. all buffs is cleared after 321go. and then players can start make buffs etc.. then will be beter?
so maybe change rules to: players can start fight and buffs after countdown. all buffs is cleared after 321go. and then players can start make buffs etc.. then will be beter?
Rematches for something that affects all teams equally is not plausible, nor possible, or even really necessary.
1 or 2 rematches due to ncsoft's own mistake, vagueness in the rules, or players intentionally exploiting multiple things (salvations on whole party, BR during countdown, sonatas on pets in 1v1) is reasonable
When the match start i can see a message saying "All the CP, HP and MP will be fully restored during countdown. Skills will be reset" or something like that.
One group did BR on countdown, so it got reset.
Since i saw the very first battle of the tournament for me that was clear and i asked myself why nobody was doing this. Just today SilentHorrors did it.
TIP 1) Use all your skills on countdown guys if you want to break jaws.
so using sonatas, melodies, harmonies etc also exploit/cheatz/hax. because it's buff self/party buff skills!!!
using buff skills in dismiss party before match doesn't drop hp/cp/mp for xa0 team.. so i dont get why you crying.
so using sonatas, melodies, harmonies etc also exploit/cheatz/hax. because it's buff self/party buff skills!!!
using buff skills in dismiss party before match doesn't drop hp/cp/mp for xa0 team.. so i dont get why you crying.
Are you trolling or actually dumb?
They list specifically the only buffs allowed to be used in the match are the six melodies and any self buffs. This applies for everyone involved in the match including servitors.
Obviously a summoner's pets cannot self buff these things and they are not provided in the match. Get lost with your irrelevant troll posts.
If i was NCSOFT west i would NEVER EVER make a tournament like this again. the tears... unbelievable.
And there is the difference between successful individuals and you.
They will learn from their mistakes, program better, follow the rules closely, and have maybe more staff and re do it.
So you are a quitter.
They will not quit. Thank goodness NCsoft is not you and they have shown they are interested in reviewing logs and analyzing and responding to their customer.
OH GUESS WHAT ! they did nocturn Twice in 2 min in the first fight too !
3:41:00 uses it the first time.
3:42:51 they use it again.
Good to know they are exploiting the game every fight. its just gonna catch up to them in semi finals... this is not some scrub group who dosent know how the game works... try actually playing how its supposed to be played.
Ismilla and novabots crying about exploiting and cheating, oh the irony.
I for one will never support or use programs. now that we have that out of the way, this is not about cheating, this is about exploiting something.
when weapons and skills could be OE with a glitch, thats an exploit for your own benifit. yes sure anyone could of done it if they just knew. So again, them doing BR twice, or crazy nocturn twice when their skills are 10 min reuse base. its just an exploit. now we will see if NC support exploits (if so u will need to accept a lot more ) or if u will enforce some rules instead of just saying w/e happens happens.
I for one will never support or use programs. now that we have that out of the way, this is not about cheating, this is about exploiting something.
when weapons and skills could be OE with a glitch, thats an exploit for your own benifit. yes sure anyone could of done it if they just knew. So again, them doing BR twice, or crazy nocturn twice when their skills are 10 min reuse base. its just an exploit. now we will see if NC support exploits (if so u will need to accept a lot more ) or if u will enforce some rules instead of just saying w/e happens happens.
ncsoft didnt even notice you were alive in 7 vs 7, do you really think they gonna pay attention to what you say?
I find it hilarious that when Sector's group lost due to a bug and asked for a rematch Nova called them crybabies.
Now Nova loses because of something that a lot of teams did (just watch all the previous matches, you can see people using CN, knight frenzy, minds eye, etc before match start) and get 500 different people to post on forums asking for a rematch.
Non-Usable Items and Skills:
All scrolls (including resurrection scrolls) and recovery-type items cannot be used. (This includes items such as the “L2 Day” scroll series, Healing Potions, Elixirs of CP, Greater Haste Potions, Greater Alacrity Potions, and Greater Casting Speed Potions.)
All types of Hero skills and items.
HP- decreasing debuffs (for example: Frenzy, Zealot) cannot be used prior to the beginning of the match.
Teleportation skills can be used, but if you move outside of the arena you will be disqualified.
All types of pets.
where is br nocturn and other crap what you crying about? or it's hero skills? :D
personally i'd definitely put br in frenzy/zealot/berserk category because of its short duration and long cd.
melodies, harmonies, sonatas, noblesse, salvation... do you know what they all have in common? those are all magic skill and all with short cd, br is active skill with long cooldown, just suitable for frenzy/zealot category. there is definitely a reason why ncsoft never used skill mastery for this skill to reset its cooldown on live servers. but thats just me, feel free to say anything.
My guess is that
1. dismiss team pmed a GM before the fight and asked if it was okay to use Nocturn/BR before the reset/end of countdown
OR
2. they tested the reset with nocturn in the first 7v7 and it worked therefore using BR to finish off the 2nd 7v7.
We've all watched the live stream and relays and im sure no other party other than yesterday ever tried to cast these skills to their advantage for the reset.
Its not about being 'smarter' cuz my team also suggested this weeks ago but we didnt want to risk a DQ for using cheap tactics.
Its about keeping a fair 7v7 (main servers), there is no such thing as double skills
Why were the teams forced to choose only 1 of each class but are allowed to use skills as if there are 2 of that class in the party .
There seems to be a contradiction to the way the BT was supposed to be played and the on-the-fly changes to the rules because of secret private message conversations with the GMs .
I don't know why people keep comparing BR to frenzy/zealot. It has nothing to do with that. It's being brought up because the players are told not to start until AFTER the countdown, and throwing a skill like that before it finishes is kinda not doing that.
Having the ability to use a very offensive skill that has a long C/D (like frenzy/zealot) 2 times (60 seconds) in a 3 minute fight gives a severe unfair advantage .
And lets be serious here , if the GMs even thought about the "frenzy/zealot" line in the rules for 1 second , they would have changed it to skills that we actually HAVE these days . Possibly adding in skills that are offensive and have long C/D timers like Mind's Eye, Battle Rhapsody, Berserker Rage etc .
4:45:09 Countdown begins
4:45:10 enchanter (danceres) mana decreases, as with the start of BR, then decreases a lot with the finish of BR
4:45:14 Match starts, with 25ish seconds of BR, with the skill refreshed on dismiss party
4:45:47 danceres casts BR again, you can see it clearly in the screen
It was done during countdown, it is very clear if you watch the mana bars. This is not only an exploit, but its a violation of not "starting during the countdown" which is an official rule of the tournament.
I'd put money on ilucie using knight frenzy and the archer using minds eye and quickfire and ue before the match started too. This was a coordinated effort to exploit the tournament, obviously.
Porting outside of the arena is a clear violation of the rules also and we saw how that went..
Plus multiple groups were doing this since the start of the tournament, we even asked Cryo when the skill reset was so we could cast certain CDs before they reset.
still there is the following issues that need to be addressed:
1) rez not working. CLEARLY a violation of the rules of 7v7.
2) The rules CLEARLY STATE that all members must die, If you are saying the rules clearly state that you can buff, then this is true as well, making the match invalid,. Cant pick and choose which rules you follow can you?
3) The rules clearly state no buffs outside the ones given in the 1v1,. The PETS had buffs. Another clear violation of the rules. Same rules you are asking to be followed.
So choose, which one would you rather deny that was there and a problem?
well with some little issues the BT was ok to watch , but now with all teams in the semifinal and final , using all their important skills while the countdown is going and getting these skills reseted will be total ******ness and will have nothing to do with normal 7v7 pvp
After todays matches it was obvious they didnt mean the BR to be used this way. The GM said: So the teams will be debuffed, skills reset then they can start buffing. There will not be another skill reset at the point, no second buffs will be performed. (screenshot can be provided if wanted)
All these teams are asking is a fair chance to 3rd and 4th place.
The GM's said in emails they will explain everything after today's matches. Since that was all that I wanted, a fair response from the GM's and they will address the issue I thank everyone who voiced their opinions, for or against the situation since it opened the discussion and gave the issue the relevance that it was due.
Ismilla and novabots crying about exploiting and cheating, oh the irony.
this!
Does anyone realy expect fair fights in this game? rly .... after all these years? .... omg
som1 was yust more clever then you, bend the rules a bit more .. or took the higher risk of getting banned/disqualified .. get over it and stop crying.
So what have we learned about nc during this event?
1. If gm's actually played they would have caught most of the infractions.
2. Nc makes rules, but will never abide them.
3. Its only an exploit when you lose.
4. This tournament was nothing more then a glorified advert campaign for old players.
5. What is testing?
You know, it sounds like they'll hold another one of these next year.
HP- decreasing debuffs (for example: Frenzy, Zealot) cannot be used prior to the beginning of the match. http://www.twitch.tv/lineage2us/b/390911392 at 1:35:18 martelx uses berseker before match start. By Nova's standard this calls for a rematch, no?
good effort but today the skills didn't get reset after the 5 second countdown. here's proof if my word isn't enough for you. (berserker rage is on F7) http://gyazo.com/a098ac0e1b561c01f16736558cf27248
using a skill before match start is fine, but exploiting the skill reset to use it twice is something that clearly shouldn't happen as GMs didn't allow it after the quarter final fiasco.
sorry to disappoint you but no Nova team used any cheap tactics like this to win.
http://www.twitch.tv/lineage2us/b/390911392 at 1:35:18 martelx uses berseker before match start. By Nova's standard this calls for a rematch, no?
I guess you didn't participate today or you'd know NC decided to change their rules again (cool right?)
Today, NC didnt care what you casted after the skill reset, which took place 30 seconds before the fight started. The entire issue was that previously the reset took place at "1" which is what caused the exploit.
Really, really, really fail troll. The incompetency here...
I guess you didn't participate today or you'd know NC decided to change their rules again (cool right?)
Today, NC didnt care what you casted after the skill reset, which took place 30 seconds before the fight started. The entire issue was that previously the reset took place at "1" which is what caused the exploit.
Really, really, really fail troll. The incompetency here...
Where did I say that martel used berseker before match start to get no-reuse? I simply spotted a rule violation (using berseker before match start).
But I guess someone in Nova wouldn't realize they were breaking the rules, after all martel has been doing 100% automated pvp for how many years now?
And didn't Nova get 4 weapons deleted/reseted in the localhost fiasco a few months ago?
inb4 "I'm legit" reply. Yes, _you_ may be, but you play in a clan known for being the best at cheating.
I said martel violated the rules by using berseker before match starts, just like teleporting outside of the arena would result in DQ.
l2read
PS: It's cute how nova has an army on official forums to defend them against any accusations, when they also have idiots like martel and hitcha bragging about being better cheater than others on l2blah and even posting fraps that show how bad they are at this game.
actually everyone in every team was trying to use skills before countdown since gm's stated it wasn't against the rules but surprise, no more resets... so the saturday issues were solved and indirectly admitted it wasnt their intend.
I said martel violated the rules by using berseker before match starts, just like teleporting outside of the arena would result in DQ.
Actually at least 3 nukers teleported out of the arena during the matches and the only one that got DQ was MrTish during the 1v1s, even though it was unintentional and he ported right back in (same as the other nukers).
Actually at least 3 nukers teleported out of the arena during the matches and the only one that got DQ was MrTish during the 1v1s, even though it was unintentional and he ported right back in (same as the other nukers).
he also unloaded from outside te arena, but it doesnt matter since it was after 5 mins
i'm not troling. i'm just acting like you and your friends did after match vs dismiss grp ;)
and in my country we have one saying:
There is no law without furnishings (or maybe exceptions is better word)
"idk or it's correct word, used google translate for that"
No tears, people just want NC to admit their mistakes and their obviously biased about which teams they want to win based on which rules they choose to enforce or break.
I dont think its really NC, i think its really more just Cryo.
He has not worked with the L2 player base before. and this being his first time he pretty much told everyone to f off.
Every player that brought up a concern he either said too bad, or thats only your view. Its honestly really sad that this is his "job" if u can even call it that at the way he is treating players .
I dont think its really NC, i think its really more just Cryo.
He has not worked with the L2 player base before. and this being his first time he pretty much told everyone to f off.
Every player that brought up a concern he either said too bad, or thats only your view. Its honestly really sad that this is his "job" if u can even call it that at the way he is treating players .
funny part, they said no double skills the next day... so im guessing its more then just 1 opinion right?
Are you complaining that they noticed something wrong, thought about it and decided to avoid it for the next matches ?
Are you complaining that they noticed something wrong, thought about it and decided to avoid it for the next matches ?
I'm glad u said something.
I'm saying they saw it exploited ONCE and didn't do anything and just said hey guys don't do that. Lol
Here is an example. Your watching the Olympics 100m heat and they countdown a race to start and at 3 one guy starts running 2....1..... go! Then at end of race the guy who started at 3 they allow to go to the final round but told everyone, OK from now on u can't start early. That's pretty much what happened lol
Simply they just had to rematch it and be done with it but that's too hard? Of course not they have done several rematches already for reasons that were not even explained.
yes. probably it's curse of localhost in dismiss party... (he was know person from teon/naia for making ban for ~40+ clan members when he made all skills +30/15 (even kiss of eva and others what you never use) and also same crap with r9* weapons +15/16 or even more )
what what? they still reading charts and tables what diegovargas sent to them about his party and trying to prove them that dismiss team was not so strong to defeat his team.
Asking myself why ncsoft couldnt manage to make a good BT like THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc2ZywAo0hc
How difficult can be? Avvoid all the problems, all the tears, all the exploits and i know that ppl who play core BT got fun time....
yes. probably it's curse of localhost in dismiss party... (he was know person from teon/naia for making ban for ~40+ clan members when he made all skills +30/15 (even kiss of eva and others what you never use) and also same crap with r9* weapons +15/16 or even more )
the last part players on Chronos used more of his services then anyone on Naia, minor detail :P
Well, there's nothing in rules saying you couldn't use skills before the reset of skills cooldown.
Pretty legit, they were smarter than you.
By acting illegitimately where it was implied and clearly understood what you were and were not supposed to do but doing it anyway simply because there was no mechanism to prevent it.
That's like saying you shouldn't get a ticket for speeding just because your car can travel 30 mph faster than the speed limit and if they hadn't intended for you to travel that fast why would they allow your car to reach those speeds?