Info on Terragamers is wrong, for instance sagi gets +p.atk/p.def, no boost in range.
From what I've seen in the russian PTS:
-Sagi is useless
-Moonlight can be an interesting setup. With wiz harmony, and both rapid stances you get pretty sick re-use, allowing you to spam pinpoint shot or the aoes.
-Ghost sentinel hits pretty hard with skills, not so much with auto-attack.
-Trickster hits the hardest in PvP.
Also, kamael with haste crossbow and fast shot has perma 1500 atk speed with full buffs in Lindvior. Best setup PvP-wise I have seen in the PTS so far.
Edit: Looks like Terragamers was updated and now displays correct info, my bad :P
update after Lindvior archers are getting nerved as on Korea they basically pvp mainly with archer DD's and a few mages which pushed daggers/warriors out of the pvp game completely there..
both rapid stances you get pretty sick re-use, allowing you to spam pinpoint shot or the aoes.
BOTH rapid stances? what do you mean? that they'll keep the old stance plus their class stance? so basically i can increase a DE power skill of about 50%? or half my delay and still have a +15% power skill? :/
Moonlight sentinel might seem like a joke or weak, but w/ all reuse reducing buffs and jevels it literally can spam skills and +15 DEX for skill crit chance just makes it worse. It's not as weak as it looks :) Ofc that +10 speed passive is kinda useless though.
SR(new 1) gets something like all archers get -10%? reuse(new rapid fire stance) time on the "toggle" + a buff -10?% reuse time on self buff
while now archers have -40%(rapid fire stance) reuse on the toggle that will give after update only -10% reuse time sure they removed some other stuff which is bad on toggle we have atm but this is nowhere near "better" as what u can get now
PR/HE/Kamael are somewhat decent
im not saying SR isnt good :P infact id love to try it after we got lindvior but i think they other 3 are far better
what toggles and stances are you talking about? those are now all buffs that last 30 min
same **** let me sum it up quick
rapid fire stance now : -40% reuse
rapid fire stance in lindvior : -10% reuse
siege fire stance now: +40% pattack crit damage skill damage
siege fire stance in lindvior : +10? or +20% skill damage / pattack
sniper stance now : use less
sniper stance lindvior : +10% attack speed and something else
now ur going to tell me (or others not pointing at u :P) that a SR is nice to play when u get FAR less reuse right now on skills -50% with boss jewel and 0 buffs
while in new patch -30% with 0 buffs and boss jewel
then again if i got it right some skill reuse got reduced aswell so might not make a diff just saying people think they can spam in lindvior while they already can :D
rapid fire stance now : -40% reuse
rapid fire stance in lindvior : -10% reuse
siege fire stance now: +40% pattack crit damage skill damage
siege fire stance in lindvior : +10? or +20% skill damage / pattack
sniper stance now : use less
sniper stance lindvior : +10% attack speed and something else
now ur going to tell me (or others not pointing at u :P) that a SR is nice to play when u get FAR less reuse right now on skills -50% with boss jewel and 0 buffs
while in new patch -30% with 0 buffs and boss jewel
then again if i got it right some skill reuse got reduced aswell so might not make a diff just saying people think they can spam in lindvior while they already can :D
actually i was talking about something else
those skills are no more toggles, those are buffs with 30 seconds cooldown and last 30 minutes. you cannot take advantage of stances like rapid fire as you do now, click rapid fire click quick fire then switch back to siege and other examples like that because one buff has 30 seconds reuse and cast time. you can still do just not fast because those skills have cast times and would be for just 1 skill because of reuses
btw if you want exact numbers, my yul has this
siege (http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6776/yulsiege.jpg) - patk 20% skill power 10%
rapid (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5858/yulrapidfire.jpg) - patk 20% skill reuse -10%
sniper (http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6756/yulsniper.jpg) - patk 20% atk speed 10%
dead eye (http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1633/yuldeadeyeposition.jpg) - patk 10% skill power 10% and yes dead eye stack with all 3
almost, it will be whoever has the strongest bow + highest skill refresh aka spam certain skills
ofc there's a difference when talking about Oly/7v7/mass pvp/pve..
the strongest hvy hitter will still be the dark elf one.. the archer tank will still be sagi.. the skill spammer will be light elf.. so w/e your fav flav is ;)
Guy with most +++ blessed r99 bow until someone gets new boss bow will be best archer.
If this weren't so true, it would actually be funny. Add in the guy with the most
resources, scripting knowledge, "OP'ed/ impossible to get your hands on unless you know the right people items" and there ya go.
Hawkeye = +10% patk
Phantom = +10% skill power
Trickster = +10% PvP dmg
Silver Ranger = +20 run speed
As though light elves were SO OVERPOWERED that they don't need +10% atk spd? Ugh.
How does Skill Power rate vs. regular Patk? Calculation-wise for overall damage when using skills?
Lets say you have 20k p.atk and use pinpoint shot (40k power). In this scenario, your total attack power is 60k (lets ignore skill power/pvp dmg boosts for now).
Hawkeye's 10% p.atk boost means his total attack power will be 62k.
PR's 10% skill power boost means his total attack power will be 64k.
Trickster's total attack power will be 66k, since the pvp dmg bonus applies after all other calculations.
And SR's total attack power will remain 60k, but at least it can run away from everybody :p
except you are both wrong. all 4 receive the same 10% p.atk boost, sagi gets 10% atk speed and some pdef too but thats irrelevant, ghost get 10% skill power, moonlight get -10% reuse on skills and trickster pvp damage but the pvp damage is added in the end not at every calculation you make.
get one of the neck with -10% reuse combined with the reuse from sr for spamming skills.
in the long run... reuse time and the skill power will be better.
atk speed does not make reuse time on skills decrease but makes skills fire faster.
and at bosses your dps is better with more atk speed since you dont spam skills there.
Skills copied from site, differences between classes highlighted in red. 5-10% more damage for others, 10-20 run speed for Light elf. I don't understand why Light elf doesn't get additional cooldown decrease, since the others get additional to their Positions.
Next question: how slowly does a a human archer run? (I'm a light elf right now. Ofc NCsoft can't help screwing over the light elves all the time.) And does changing class change the toon's actual race (stats/racial skills/appearance)? Chicken Nugget, Drunken Sailor, or Dr. Frankenfurter. Sigh.
Yul Sagittarius
Sniper Position: For 30 minutes, increase P. Atk. +5%, P. Def. +5% and Atk. Spd. +5% when bow/crossbow is equipped.
Superior Hawkeye Mastery: Increase P. Atk. +5% when bow/crossbow is equipped
Yul Moonlight Sentinel
Rapid Fire Position: For 30 minutes, increase P. Atk. +5% and decreases skill cooldown -5% when bow/crossbow is equipped
Superior Silver Mastery: Movement speed is increased +10.
Yul Ghost Sentinel
Dead Eye Position: For 30 minutes, increase P. Atk. +5% and skill power +5% when bow/crossbow is equipped
Superior Phantom Mastery: Increase skill power +5%
Yul Trickster
Soul Position: For 30 minutes, increase P. Atk. +5% and PvP damage +5% when bow/crossbow is equipped
Superior Sense Mastery: Increase PvP damage +5%
might wanna update your post though to clarify what it is ppl are looking at as yes it does matter that you only list the lvl1 skill values as not all values progress the same way to lvl4 and many of the ppl reading this are already lvl 99 or close to that..
and btw minor detail but there are ppl posting here that have tested stuff on RU PTS like both beleaua & myself so those folks actually do know what they're talking about ;)
still ofc everyone is entitled to his/her opinion as it's a free world after all ^^
And yet the levels don't affect what the boost goes to, just how much. My issue is that Light Elf gets run speed boost so we can frolic in the flowers around the Mother Tree while all three other races get actual damage boosts.
It's fine. I'll just switch class if they make Light Elves terrible. I knew it was bound to happen.
I'm not going to fuss about something I copy/pasted. You guys can complain about how the 5%'s aren't 10%'s, but that's a side issue. The low dps class got the least dps boost. As a DD class, I care.
And yet the levels don't affect what the boost goes to, just how much. My issue is that Light Elf gets run speed boost so we can frolic in the flowers around the Mother Tree while all three other races get actual damage boosts.
It's fine. I'll just switch class if they make Light Elves terrible. I knew it was bound to happen.
I'm not going to fuss about something I copy/pasted. You guys can complain about how the 5%'s aren't 10%'s, but that's a side issue. The low dps class got the least dps boost. As a DD class, I care.
What if I told you elves were never a dd race, and never will be.
-speed
-evasion
-recharge
yul sagy. PVE wise wont be the best archer for obvious reasons. PvP wise it could be a suitable yul DEPENDING on the amount of range increase it gets. If its small like 100-200 range that wont change anything due to range dmg variables being changed, as well as that being such a small distance you wont be able to judge that small distance in mass pvp to actually take advantage of it. If its something like 500+ then it could be useful. Good Yul's know what I am talking about.
Moonlight Sentinal. Prolly will be best for PVE. Most PVE is raid bosses and AOE, therefore more skill spamming and more aoes being dished out increases overall dps. As far as PvP I highly doubt this archer will be better then any other Yul with any type of set up you choose. For example going ++++dex and trying to base your strategy of skill crits is like someone trying to make a living off of dice games.
Ghost Sentinal. PVE wise it will be good. Yea you dont get the skill re-use but youll still be sufficiently dishing out dps compared to a moonlight due to the skill power increase. PvP wise it will still be good due to again the increase skill power, as well as retaining the crit dmg passive which is good for archers.
Trickster. PVE wise it will be as good as a sagy, so not very strong compared to others. PvP wise it will be good for the obvious reason, increase pvp dmg which not only covers skill dmg, but crit dmg as well.
So in my opinion its either ghost sentinel or trickster.
Moonlight Sentinal. Prolly will be best for PVE. Most PVE is raid bosses and AOE, therefore more skill spamming and more aoes being dished out increases overall dps.
whoever use atk skills to kill raids as archer is an idiot
Sagi doesn't get extra range, only a boost in p.atk/p.def/atk speed. It will be the best for raid DPS by far, but the worst of all archers for PvP.
MS is an interesting setup as I said before, particularly in Oly. Depending on your Dyes and race it might have the highest DPS in PvP of all archers, but it won't be able to burst like GS/Trickster.
GS doesn't get any crit dmg bonus, just skill power. It will be good for PvP but not the best.
Trickster hits the hardest in PvP, period. But it sucks for PvE, so carebears might want to avoid this class.
Sagi doesn't get extra range, only a boost in p.atk/p.def/atk speed. It will be the best for raid DPS by far, but the worst of all archers for PvP.
MS is an interesting setup as I said before, particularly in Oly. Depending on your Dyes and race it might have the highest DPS in PvP of all archers, but it won't be able to burst like GS/Trickster.
GS doesn't get any crit dmg bonus, just skill power. It will be good for PvP but not the best.
Trickster hits the hardest in PvP, period. But it sucks for PvE, so carebears might want to avoid this class.
yea i was going off patch notes from a few weeks ago. My bad
after reading the new ones............... is it just me or are archers getting nerfed upwards of 20% dmg regarding skills,patk,pcrit dmg but just increasing our attack speed?
yea i was going off patch notes from a few weeks ago. My bad
after reading the new ones............... is it just me or are archers getting nerfed upwards of 20% dmg regarding skills,patk,pcrit dmg but just increasing our attack speed?
Don't you fret, archers are still the FOTM class in Lindvior and are getting nerfed again a few patches afterwards.
I ran couple of tests on RU PTS and so far for PvP I liked Elf with +DEX set up the most fun and let me tell why.
The difference between all archer classes in PvP is not that great in skill dmg wise, however faster reuse makes it much more appealing for me to play the class as you can spam much more skills. Also DEX set up is crazy for light elf archer, skill crits are going left and right all the time. Well DEX set up works great on all archers actually.
I ran couple of tests on RU PTS and so far for PvP I liked Elf with +DEX set up the most fun and let me tell why.
The difference between all archer classes in PvP is not that great in skill dmg wise, however faster reuse makes it much more appealing for me to play the class as you can spam much more skills. Also DEX set up is crazy for light elf archer, skill crits are going left and right all the time. Well DEX set up works great on all archers actually.
That may be so... but a good setup on a trickster is definitely viable and not to be discounted.
That may be so... but a good setup on a trickster is definitely viable and not to be discounted.
In general no matter what kind of archer you are in 7v7 or mass pvp you will be doing great amounts of damage nevertheless. Also lets get real, 1v1 is not a real scenario anyway.
I ran couple of tests on RU PTS and so far for PvP I liked Elf with +DEX set up the most fun and let me tell why.
curios what kind of dex setup are we talking about. i only used the armor and hair accessory but last time i checked you could not use dyes.
yeah same here, did they finally fix the add dye npc ?
I've asked GM to increase my DEX using ''//setparam dex 76'' command and he did. Same as +15 DEX on Yull MS. Tho it only lasts till you restart. I speak russian tho.
Tbh, I think DEX is much better in mass PvP. The skill crit rate bonus from DEX is greater than the skill mastery reset rate from STR. When you do crit a skill, you still need more time to cast it. Packing more damage (by crits) in an arrow is just more efficient. You also don't ever run out of skills to spam on an archer. In mass PvP, skill reset isn't very important for the above reasons.
I'd imagine STR to still be better in Oly though. Getting skill reset or double timer on an important skill like UE is the game changer.
Archers aren't similar to daggers as I expected. However, I do enjoy the 100k crits on people in Seraph robe/leather with my current STR setup. Maybe I'd do 80k crits with DEX setup, but that's the trade I'm willing to take.
actually your damage is lower than 80k because siege stance is kinda nerfed. reset on skills is nice when you have big cooldowns but my silver ranger on pts has 4 sec reuse on pinpoint with all buffs and warrior so it gives you enough time to use other skills before going back to it.
To my mind..a dark elf with high DEX and the skill power he gets should be really good..combined with a good necklace and even sometimes refresh augment for oly..that would own hard.
One thing I have not given thought to was reuse on Minds eye.. 10% reuse will make for a much faster reuse... Totally stacked it would be possible to have 3 min reuse on ME. While most people will have about a 7 min reuse.
I could be wrong as I didnt roll an archer on the RU PTS but I think Minds Eye is affected by reuse buffs now like the other gold skills.
Battle Rhapsody was up in 5.5 minutes with average reuse effects.
With some rough math I was able to figure that a stack ISS (dwarf prophet iss) could get as low as a 2 minute 16 second reuse on BR... so the same could be attained by an Archer on Mindseye. Most people will probably have 5.5-7.5 minute reuse on Mindseye/BR/Rebirth especially since the iss won't buff everyone with wizards harmony before they skill just to give a different harmony right after... lazy iss's...
With some rough math I was able to figure that a stack ISS (dwarf prophet iss) could get as low as a 2 minute 16 second reuse on BR... so the same could be attained by an Archer on Mindseye. Most people will probably have 5.5-7.5 minute reuse on Mindseye/BR/Rebirth especially since the iss won't buff everyone with wizards harmony before they skill just to give a different harmony right after... lazy iss's...
An age old question. Who is lazier? The guy who doesn't want to do his job or the guy who wants someone else to do his own job?
And i imagine that makes your role to find lame excuses for not doing your job as good as it could be right? That sounds like a bad tradeoff... But it is the common excuse for mediocrity though, complaining about random things.
And i imagine that makes your role to find lame excuses for not doing your job as good as it could be right? That sounds like a bad tradeoff though... But it is the common excuse for mediocrity though...
I agree..
Wizards harmony before BR/mindseye could potential make a huge difference in dps and could be considerably useful to maximize your effectiveness in epic tauti/trasken etc..
I agree..
Wizards harmony before BR/mindseye could potential make a huge difference in dps and could be considerably useful to maximize your effectiveness in epic tauti/trasken etc..
Indeed... Which would make the archers even better at epics and also it would make sagita more of an interesting choice.
And i imagine that makes your role to find lame excuses for not doing your job as good as it could be right? That sounds like a bad tradeoff... But it is the common excuse for mediocrity though, complaining about random things.
No it means that the DDs who refuse to play support should respect the few who do play support. It also means that if you know the best way to play an iss then you should play the iss and so you can put your knowledge and skills to the test.
I've seen guys like this many times, mostly archers, complaining about the very support classes that they can't play because all they know how to do is button mash.
No it means that the DDs who refuse to play support should respect the few who do play support. It also means that if you know the best way to play an iss then you should play the iss and so you can put your knowledge and skills to the test.
I've seen guys like this many times, mostly archers, complaining about the very support classes that they can't play because all they know how to do is button mash.
Actually most ISS choose the class causes its fairly easy to play... and dont play the class effectively in pvp. Not to mention most 99 ISS use buff scripts and to do as the above guy is asking is wayyy too much work :confused:
And i imagine that makes your role to find lame excuses for not doing your job as good as it could be right? That sounds like a bad tradeoff... But it is the common excuse for mediocrity though, complaining about random things.
+100 **** iss always complaining about buffing. like healers go emo mode as usual :D Is it hard to redo sonatas if dd was busy with some enemy and didn't make in range of sonata ? or why dahell its hard to rebuff god **** Harmony if dd ask ? some QQing starting f.e: Where u was when i was bufing bla bla bla.
And in meantime iss QQ party got down :) usual story.
Actually most ISS choose the class causes its fairly easy to play... and dont play the class effectively in pvp. Not to mention most 99 ISS use buff scripts and to do as the above guy is asking is wayyy too much work :confused:
i can count good isses on my 1 hand finger in whole server. And they dont use programs for sure they somehow manage to folow party needs do aegis on comand do rapsodys on comand rebuff harmonys on comand. You can say he playing the game not like 98% of server isses press play button and go to kichen for **** cooking. In other words why the hell someone installing game and afking 99% of the time ? ) thats ridiculous. Just dont play game at all.
I'm pretty sure most DDs in the game can't play an iss any better than there current few isses playing now but are sure quick to criticize. Most DDs can't even do simple things like not spread out in different directions from their healer. Simple things like that will cause you to miss sonatas... and die.
No it means that the DDs who refuse to play support should respect the few who do play support. It also means that if you know the best way to play an iss then you should play the iss and so you can put your knowledge and skills to the test.
I've seen guys like this many times, mostly archers, complaining about the very support classes that they can't play because all they know how to do is button mash.
I respect everybody, but it doesn't change the fact that the huge majority (apparently yourself included) could do their job better... But if you're content w/ mediocrity just stay that way, i wouldn't but that's my personal way though. :D
I'm pretty sure most DDs in the game can't play an iss any better than there current few isses playing now but are sure quick to criticize. Most DDs can't even do simple things like not spread out in different directions from their healer. Simple things like that will cause you to miss sonatas... and die.
I did sometimes when my clan needed actually, it's a fairly simple class, you just need to buff as needed (so gotta play w/ your party buffs displayed), debuff large crowds, support your main DDs w/crippling attack/transform, also heal if things are really ugly, support the key members of your party (your best DD or healer) w/ angel's touch and use the escape buffs/super offensive buffs (br/cn) as needed. That's all.
I did sometimes when my clan needed actually, it's a fairly simple class, you just need to buff as needed (so gotta play w/ your party buffs displayed), debuff large crowds, support your main DDs w/crippling attack/transform, also heal if things are really ugly and use the escape buffs/super offensive buffs (br/cn) as needed. That's all.
You actually need to do more than that.
And no I'm not an iss but I've played one in pve,pvp and olympiad.
I would absolutely love it if you could state why you think DEX is worth the boost over STR for a pvp archer. Seems like I missed that memo and I m really curious to the reasons you claim that ! :D
+100 **** iss always complaining about buffing. like healers go emo mode as usual :D Is it hard to redo sonatas if dd was busy with some enemy and didn't make in range of sonata ? or why dahell its hard to rebuff god **** Harmony if dd ask ? some QQing starting f.e: Where u was when i was bufing bla bla bla.
And in meantime iss QQ party got down :) usual story.
Is it hard to make it into range for Sonatas when you see them start to tick down (they are like 900 Range radius, I think)? Clearly that means a refresh is eminent... Not sure why the mental re*ardation of someone else has to be the fault of the Iss. It's also not hard to noble yourself when you die/get rezzed unless you're getting focus fired in PvP. In most PvE scenarios rebuffing after someone dies is almost unacceptable. Get noble or buy some Spirit Ore.
I don't have time for that on my Iss. Anytime a group is missing sonata rebuffs or crying about buffs I have a button for that: Quick Return.
This is why I avoid Pugging on my Iss, though. Too many Re-Res.
Is it hard to make it into range for Sonatas when you see them start to tick down (they are like 900 Range radius, I think)? Clearly that means a refresh is eminent... Not sure why the mental re*ardation of someone else has to be the fault of the Iss. It's also not hard to noble yourself when you die/get rezzed unless you're getting focus fired in PvP. In most PvE scenarios rebuffing after someone dies is almost unacceptable. Get noble or buy some Spirit Ore.
I don't have time for that on my Iss. Anytime a group is missing sonata rebuffs or crying about buffs I have a button for that: Quick Return.
This is why I avoid Pugging on my Iss, though. Too many Re-Res.
My point exactly. Too many DD players complain about support but wouldn't dare play support and find themselves having to do more than just next target and spam skills while dealing with said ignorant DDs complaining at them for not being perfect.
Is it hard to make it into range for Sonatas when you see them start to tick down (they are like 900 Range radius, I think)? Clearly that means a refresh is eminent... Not sure why the mental re*ardation of someone else has to be the fault of the Iss. It's also not hard to noble yourself when you die/get rezzed unless you're getting focus fired in PvP. In most PvE scenarios rebuffing after someone dies is almost unacceptable. Get noble or buy some Spirit Ore.
I don't have time for that on my Iss. Anytime a group is missing sonata rebuffs or crying about buffs I have a button for that: Quick Return.
This is why I avoid Pugging on my Iss, though. Too many Re-Res.
I won't limit my movements because of the countdown of sonatas on a pvp for example... So it's a matter of common sense of both parts. Ofc i'm not mentioning dumb playing of people which indeed is not the iss' fault, but those should not be counted on this kind of discussion as they can pretty much screw everything.
But many enchanters don't even realize how important they are on the dps on the entire party, and just mindlessly spam skills instead of focusing on leaving at least crippling attack always active.
And that's w/out counting those who can't even properly buff as needed which is the most basic thing ever... But in the end, specially on pve they are the most important class of the entire party and can pretty much turn a 40 minute instance into 20 minutes and vice versa.
I won't limit my movements because of the countdown of sonatas on a pvp for example... So it's a matter of common sense of both parts. Ofc i'm not mentioning dumb playing of people which indeed is not the iss' fault, but those should not be counted on this kind of discussion as they can pretty much screw everything.
But many enchanters don't even realize how important they are on the dps on the entire party, and just mindlessly spam skills instead of focusing on leaving at least crippling attack always active.
And that's w/out counting those who can't even properly buff as needed which is the most basic thing ever... But in the end, specially on pve they are the most important class of the entire party and can pretty much turn a 40 minute instance into 20 minutes and vice versa.
If everyone that knows how to properly play an iss were to reroll an ISS as a main, then we would lack DDs that know how to play properly. Your argument is therefor invalid.
I won't limit my movements because of the countdown of sonatas on a pvp for example... So it's a matter of common sense of both parts. Ofc i'm not mentioning dumb playing of people which indeed is not the iss' fault, but those should not be counted on this kind of discussion as they can pretty much screw everything.
But many enchanters don't even realize how important they are on the dps on the entire party, and just mindlessly spam skills instead of focusing on leaving at least crippling attack always active.
And that's w/out counting those who can't even properly buff as needed which is the most basic thing ever... But in the end, specially on pve they are the most important class of the entire party and can pretty much turn a 40 minute instance into 20 minutes and vice versa.
That's a side effect of the Iss Enchanter DPSing the MOB. NOt anything any Iss actually needs to worry about. Maybe tell your DDs to assist the Iss and not some other DD that is on a MOB that randomly resisted the AoE debuff :-P
If everyone that knows how to properly play an iss were to reroll an ISS as a main, then we would lack DDs that know how to play properly. Your argument is therefor invalid.
An Iss is not hard to play, it's just that DDs expect them to put far more effort into playing than they're willing to put forth themselves.
Can't move in for rebuffs, but it's okay to let everyone else in the group suffer so the Iss can run to them to give them the buff they need. **** yah!
An Iss is not hard to play, it's just that DDs expect them to put far more effort into playing than they're willing to put forth themselves.
Can't move in for rebuffs, but it's okay to let everyone else in the group suffer so the Iss can run to them to give them the buff they need. **** yah!
Playing an ISS is still a bit more complicated than playing a DD and involves being aware of more things than a DD since DDs don't require paying attention to everyone's buffs and in some cases debuffs as well you are accountable for more people than yourself when you are an ISS.
If everyone that knows how to properly play an iss were to reroll an ISS as a main, then we would lack DDs that know how to play properly. Your argument is therefor invalid.
I didn't say for everyone to reroll to an iss. I said you.
I didn't say for everyone to reroll to an iss. I said you.
I do occasionally play my ISS.. I disliked the playstyle so I rerolled to another class that many people fail at. So according to your logic I should have rerolled to a Tyrr in the first place as I did.
I'm pretty sure most DDs in the game can't play an iss any better than there current few isses playing now but are sure quick to criticize. Most DDs can't even do simple things like not spread out in different directions from their healer. Simple things like that will cause you to miss sonatas... and die.
I play a DD class now yes.. but I used to play my ISS as a main and did a good job hence the reason I hold a higher standard for their play-style because I know what they are capable of and what their role in a party is.
I would absolutely love it if you could state why you think DEX is worth the boost over STR for a pvp archer. Seems like I missed that memo and I m really curious to the reasons you claim that ! :D
If you are the same guy as on blah, then i guess you are from naia. You should Advol, i know he was the 1st archer to change STR for DEX (he was mad spamming to sell/buy them like 1month ago)
Then play the iss and you won't have to complain about them in your party because you're the perfect iss.
Then I'll complain about DDs. Your point is moot.
And actually I box my iss on occasion.. sadly better than many play theirs live.. although lots of people ***** at supports whenever they mess up because of lag but that's a different story. I only expect people to be open minded and think outside the box when necessary and actually listen to others.
For me iss enchanter is the hardest and the most important class to play, but yet stuff like rebuffing are extremelly easy with this class. I have played PP numerous of times in a siege, back in the days when you had to rebuff 9 ppl and everyone was cancelling debuffs like a ****. Rebuffing in the middle of a fight with a PP was not fun, but nothing hard really.
Nowadays I see so many iss enchanters failing at everything and the class has so much potential - tank, heal, debuff, MA, buff, kite it is rare to see a good iss enchanter.
I've read alot of the first things stated on this post, but i've missed anyone mentioning the racial skills. Or they still around. If so, slow Orc racial as a LE style archer gives that 1min worth of more atk.spd and power. Will that be helpful or not worth talking about. And who has the best racials to go with the upcoming skill updates?
I've read alot of the first things stated on this post, but i've missed anyone mentioning the racial skills. Or they still around. If so, slow Orc racial as a LE style archer gives that 1min worth of more atk.spd and power. Will that be helpful or not worth talking about. And who has the best racials to go with the upcoming skill updates?
Kamael has 1% pvp damage and dark resist.. dwarf has 1% skill reuse..
Savage will be a decent skill for pve but not a good choice for pvp.
I have done extensive tests on innova PTS today which to me seems extremely aaccurate.
Yul Trickster-Best for pvp by far. You can constantly spam skills without ever needing to hit regularly. Hits the hardest pvp by far
Yul sagi- most balanced. Best for single target pve, decent for mass pvp due to the 10% incr in pdef at lvl 99. Incr in atk spd by roughly 100. Was not bad I kinda liked it.
Yul Ghost sentinel- not bad. balanced for pvp/pve. However not really as good as a trickster for pvp nor sagi for pve.
Yul moon sentinal- realy nice refresh, however hits weak as *** pvp. I could see this class being good for aoe pve but thats it.
STR vs DEX
Tests done off of a DE Trickster
130 str, 59 dex. Pinpoint shot on avg did roughly 14k on a DE ISS with +3 hvy set. Skill critted roughly 2/10 pin point shots for roughly 30kish.
115 str, 71 dex. Pinpoint shot on avg did roughly 9-10k on same ISS. Skill critted on avg 3-4/10 pinpoint shots. Critted or roughly 21-22kish.
120 Str, 66 dex. Pinpoint shot on avg did roughly 13-14k dmg. Skill critted 3-4/10 shots. Critted for roughly 28k dmg.
Best option is to get 120 str, and as much dex as possible imho. Anything above 120 str didnt seem to boost p atk, p crit dmg all that much. Atk spd by going full dex was roughly 60 more. But the overall dps was WAY higher on a STR setup.
Nice test. With more specific numbers you could easily calculate which route is best.
Also STR build favors overenchanted bows.
I used a +4 amaranthine bow with focus
I kept all the numbers on a notepad but did not save them :( downy moment.
But do the tests yourself. Kimeal Trickster hits hardest in PvP by far. I remember hitting my iss for 14k pinpoint shots with trickster, and with a Sagi I was hitting him for roughly 11-12k. Huge difference. Mind you I had tauti,earth wyrm, blessed valakas so increased dmg a coniderable amount. But both sagi and trickster had epics equiped.
I also created 2 different DE yuls BEFORE they upgraded to lindvior on PTS, therefor I could keep the same variables. Same dye set up, same +4 weap with 300 wind, 0 sub skills exact same p.atk etc. Only thing that changed was passive skill and active skill that each seperate yul uses.
I went out to the new area with a few people. Pretty solid xp btw. Nothing special but solid. Yul Sagi had a lot more dps then ghost sentinel and moon. Only thing I am unsure of is POSSIBLY a moonlight sentinel in EXTREME mass pvp with a 112 str and crazy dex setup would deal a substantial amount of dmg at like a siege field. The spamming of multi arrow with rapid fire stance (which is not all bad in update) will probably DESTROY siege fields. The 2-3 seconds spamming of that one skill with a quarter of the people getting skill critted..... holy ****.
10 test arent conclusive enough at all. for example moon sentinel with +3 bow and element on weapon but no dye hit a bd with full elem on +3 heavy for 17k damage with pinpoint. where do you put trickster in this case? you need a lot of tests because 20% pvp damage its just in the average of skill damage range test. if you hit someone with 15k, with pvp damage you will hit 18k and that isnt something measurable in 10 hits because the low and the high peaks are higher than that 3k difference. trickster is really on par with ghost sentinel and if you want something for pvp i suggest elf moon sentinel by far, high speed high dex and better reuse on skills really is better for pvp.
10 test arent conclusive enough at all. for example moon sentinel with +3 bow and element on weapon but no dye hit a bd with full elem on +3 heavy for 17k damage with pinpoint. where do you put trickster in this case? you need a lot of tests because 20% pvp damage its just in the average of skill damage range test. if you hit someone with 15k, with pvp damage you will hit 18k and that isnt something measurable in 10 hits because the low and the high peaks are higher than that 3k difference. trickster is really on par with ghost sentinel and if you want something for pvp i suggest elf moon sentinel by far, high speed high dex and better reuse on skills really is better for pvp.
huh?
Did all tests with a +4 bow, same bow on ALL.
Yea so you would be able to use more skills, and crit more often with these skills. However, ur missing out on a lot of dps when your skills dont crit (which again, imho but everyone is different, u aint skill critting as much as youd think) and your hitting EXTREMELY weak compared to yul trickster with a solid STR and a tad bit dex bonus. Btw you are not nearly critting as hard as a yul trickster or anyone with a good STR value, so therefor overall dps almost evens out on skill crit dmg incr vs skill critting more. However one could argue that some of that dps may be wasted when you skill crit for insane amounts as it is overkill.
Its all opinion. From experience I have played LE archer with dex setup, and DE archer with STR setup. Always prefered the STR setup on almost all cases.
With that said.
You definitely should not ignore dex. If you can reach 120 STR and have 59 dex i would go that route anyday over 120+ str and 56 dex. Adding some dex is beneficial.
However these people that claim that going all dex setup is USUALLY people with +16 blessed weapons in which case that weapon makes up for any amount of STR. So going dex prolly does increase their dps.
Do the tests yourself. Dont just eat others peoples info up with a spooon
Btw even tho I do not believe skill dps increases with range, I still used apoximately the same range
10 test arent conclusive enough at all. for example moon sentinel with +3 bow and element on weapon but no dye hit a bd with full elem on +3 heavy for 17k damage with pinpoint. where do you put trickster in this case? you need a lot of tests because 20% pvp damage its just in the average of skill damage range test. if you hit someone with 15k, with pvp damage you will hit 18k and that isnt something measurable in 10 hits because the low and the high peaks are higher than that 3k difference. trickster is really on par with ghost sentinel and if you want something for pvp i suggest elf moon sentinel by far, high speed high dex and better reuse on skills really is better for pvp.
No matter how you look at it the Trickser in any set amount of time will deal more damage. 10% reuse on skills? So maybe a bit less than 10% more damage overall because every skill mastery you get on a skill cuts down on the effectiveness of the 10% reuse. 20% damage is 20% damage no matter how you look at it.
Hey guys thanks for the info from your experience in PTS:)
One thing i cant get right here - i don't see any of you consider DE as an option in Lindvior:confused: it's either LE or Trickster then Saggi. Am i missing smth?I thought the ++Skill Power will give us very nice boost
Thanks and please excuse my english:o
No matter how you look at it the Trickser in any set amount of time will deal more damage. 10% reuse on skills? So maybe a bit less than 10% more damage overall because every skill mastery you get on a skill cuts down on the effectiveness of the 10% reuse. 20% damage is 20% damage no matter how you look at it.
Exactly. 20% pvp flat dmg is a lot more productive then 20% skill re-use. Especially seeing how I was able to spam skills non-stop. I literally never had to hit regularly even with quick fire up. The only bonus of 20% skill refresh is pinpoint shot faster re-use and multi-arrow re-use time to use them faster.
Again its all preference. I prefer setting my toon up to always hit decently hard rather then hitting weak unless I get a skill crit then I hit hard. If you go the DEX route your setting your toon up for chance. You could go in and skill crit a ton and do a lot of dps, or you could go into a pvp and not skill crit and hit very weak compared to other yuls. Its like trying to make a living playing Black Jack without card counting. Do-able but not the best way to earn a living.
Hey guys thanks for the info from your experience in PTS:)
One thing i cant get right here - i don't see any of you consider DE as an option in Lindvior:confused: it's either LE or Trickster then Saggi. Am i missing smth?I thought the ++Skill Power will give us very nice boost
Thanks and please excuse my english:o
DE was not bad. However I honestly feel like its one of the weaker options.
Why so?i was actually of thinking that with dual class master's rage(27% skill power) would be very interesting...
that rarely toggles. I currently tested that in this update, and it toggles like once every 20 skills or so lol and lasts for 13 seconds unless it crits
its way better to put 3 dual certs into p atk. way more dmg output
that rarely toggles. I currently tested that in this update, and it toggles like once every 20 skills or so lol and lasts for 13 seconds unless it crits
its way better to put 3 dual certs into p atk. way more dmg output
ye,those triggers are not rly worthy trying at,thow i dont rly try going on patk..since the archer on lindvior becomes even more skills played..mby light of protection will be better idea
ye,those triggers are not rly worthy trying at,thow i dont rly try going on patk..since the archer on lindvior becomes even more skills played..mby light of protection will be better idea
p atk in lindvior will increase your skill dmg. ive tested it. Yul sagi is actually a good option cuz of the increase atk spd + p atk. However I feel trickster still gonna b best.
Btw ive also tested p atk increase in this chronicle and it does boost skill dmg output as well a decent amount.
I was doing something like 1k more dmg per pinpoint shot on my LE iss with 9% more p atk. With dual certs into the p atk boost
DE was not bad. However I honestly feel like its one of the weaker options.
what? DE ghost sentinel hit as hard as the chicken trickster
but first you have to become 99 and farm tons of bosses for gear, gl with the chicken bonuses
When u choose your class after the update, only the skills will change or the char will change too? As an example I am Dark Elf Yul and probably I will change to Sagi Yul, my char will become human?
When u choose your class after the update, only the skills will change or the char will change too? As an example I am Dark Elf Yul and probably I will change to Sagi Yul, my char will become human?
I still kept my DE stats on innova PTS.
Essentially what I've been saying. Let the masses continue to think otherwise.
no doubt 20% pvp damage is a big buff just imo i wouldnt neglect 20% skill power either or the ability to use some buffs more often. these are skills for all play styles not just one.
i have all types, full +dex full +str and all have their strength. i see the skills crit are visible to the human eye with +dex and this works great for aoe skills. there are also other stats slightly improved from +dex. also with the 131 str archer there is no biggie to get 5 resets in a row often on skills or double time on minds eye or other buff. its all about what do you prefer to play imo because i dont see str as a such bad choice and at least dyes are not set on you forever on a character as the class is.