Totaly agree, my reapers did 86 damage on a warrior at the same level range and he had immortal gear. An archer would would do several thousand.
I remember my arcana lord did 300 on a crit to a grade robe user before awakening.
Its ********.
You could even lower pvp damage on archer with 50%
Totaly agree, my reapers did 86 damage on a warrior at the same level range and he had immortal gear. An archer would would do several thousand.
I remember my arcana lord did 300 on a crit to a grade robe user before awakening.
Its ********.
You could even lower pvp damage on archer with 50%
L2 is the most unbalanced MMO I've played until now(I play several MMOs so I know what I'm saying).
Don't expect so much from L2 devs about it, but in Lindvior the situation of summoners was improved a little with some changes such as increasing the duration of marks as well as decreasing their cooldown along with mark crush and convoke that had cooldown decreased and damage increased.
Summoner + boxed Iss still is the best for pve, and the pvp side was improved a little as I said above, but not enough.
You could even lower pvp damage on archer with 50%
LOL what? Do you know the mechanics of this game at least?If no your future will be very bad.I hardly suggest you to train more and read what your skills doing.Its obvious you are doing something terribly wrong :)
- Duration of mark dots increased to 10 seconds, including Void that allows you to gain almost 3k or so HP in 10 seconds(and a lot of HP if you cast Void on several targets).
- Cooldown of Marks dots and Crusher decreased to 5 seconds(almost instant full buffed) that allows you to spam nukes like crazy.
- Cooldown of Invoke decreased(I don't know how much) but full buff, its CD is 6 seconds.
- Range of all these skills are 900.
For a game that has forgotten about summoners for 8+ years, these changes are a big advance.
I'd be happier if they gave summon's skills a chance to crit, because auto-attacks crit of the new servitors deal more damage than their skills.
I know wynn before lindvior is nerfed, but if you build your character you can win againts anyone in SAME level range even without summon. I even defeated archer with only use mark skill alone, but you must TOTALLY UPGRADE your equipment and maximized it.. :)
Totaly agree, my reapers did 86 damage on a warrior at the same level range and he had immortal gear. An archer would would do several thousand.
I remember my arcana lord did 300 on a crit to a grade robe user before awakening.
Its ********.
You could even lower pvp damage on archer with 50%
If I wanted to play a summoner like a nuker it would be better to go feoh. Its like playing a feoh but you can only use melee. Summoners has pets for a reason, the summon are supposed to make the damage and nukes should be only used to get a minor damage increase and to confuse the enemy.
If I wanted to play a summoner like a nuker it would be better to go feoh. Its like playing a feoh but you can only use melee. Summoners has pets for a reason, the summon are supposed to make the damage and nukes should be only used to get a minor damage increase and to confuse the enemy.
Summoners were nukers in oly Pre-GoD (multiple weapons w/ nuke augs).
and they remain so after GoD (marks). The pets are there just to mitigate dmg / keep some constant dmg up. The majority of your damage comes from marks/ exile. Though for awhile they could just go 4 cougars and just huehue it up vs certain classes. Then they got nerfed.
- Duration of mark dots increased to 10 seconds, including Void that allows you to gain almost 3k or so HP in 10 seconds(and a lot of HP if you cast Void on several targets).
- Cooldown of Marks dots and Crusher decreased to 5 seconds(almost instant full buffed) that allows you to spam nukes like crazy.
- Cooldown of Invoke decreased(I don't know how much) but full buff, its CD is 6 seconds.
- Range of all these skills are 900.
For a game that has forgotten about summoners for 8+ years, these changes are a big advance.
I'd be happier if they gave summon's skills a chance to crit, because auto-attacks crit of the new servitors deal more damage than their skills.
Marks aren't nukes, they are debuffs. They deal fixed damage and only deal fixed damage instantly if they crit. Therefore spamming them is a wasted action in most situations.
Invoke has not been changed at all in Lindvior nor was it stated it was going to be changed. It hasn't been changed in all the patches after Lindvior either.
Invoke is still 600 range.
The ranged servitors only crit harder than their skill use if they have servitor's wrath and/or counter critical active. They will never crit harder than their skills on tanks. I have a distinct feeling this was referenced from Rochand out of context.
If I wanted to play a summoner like a nuker it would be better to go feoh. Its like playing a feoh but you can only use melee. Summoners has pets for a reason, the summon are supposed to make the damage and nukes should be only used to get a minor damage increase and to confuse the enemy.
Is summoner like a nuker? Let's see...
1. You have ranged summons with 2 nukes and you have 3 nukes of your own.
-3 are single target: Mark of Fire, Mark Retriever, "Insert summon here" Touch
-2 are AOE: Invoke, "Insert summon here" Power
2. You also have debuffs that reduce stats,
3. DOTs, a teleport skill, a lifting skill,
4. a choose location and cast skill that restricts movement,
5. a heal over time skill for HP and MP, and
6. a skill that reduces incoming damage by a percentage by transfering it to another source other than your own CP/HP
Let's see if a nuker is anything like that
Excluding unleash hell skills cause they cost too much MP to use consistently
1. You have 3 single target nukes and 2 AOEs. Check.
2. You have debuffs that reduce stats. Check.
3. You have a DOT, 2 teleport skills and 2 lifting skills one of which has a DOT on it. Check.
4. You have a choose location and cast skill that restricts movement. Check.
5. You have a heal over time skill and a skill that restores MP. Check
6. You have a skill that reduces incoming damage and transfers a portion of it to another source other than your own CP/HP. Check.
Well now seems like the only difference is the nuker hits harder and moves faster and has different utility skills and the summoner is tankier and has pets 2 of which with different utility skills.
Marks aren't nukes, they are debuffs. They deal fixed damage and only deal fixed damage instantly if they crit. Therefore spamming them is a wasted action in most situations.
Invoke has not been changed at all in Lindvior nor was it stated it was going to be changed. It hasn't been changed in all the patches after Lindvior either.
Invoke is still 600 range.
The ranged servitors only crit harder than their skill use if they have servitor's wrath and/or counter critical active. They will never crit harder than their skills on tanks. I have a distinct feeling this was referenced from Rochand out of context.
Remember that mark crusher has low cooldown, so you can spam marks and erase them with that crusher skill = heavy damage.
Mark of void is a good vampiric skill is you cast on more than 1 target.
From what I saw in tests, Invoke has almost 6 seconds cooldown full buff, I don't know if its normal CD was decreased.
Remember that mark crusher has low cooldown, so you can spam marks and erase them with that crusher skill = heavy damage.
Mark of void is a good vampiric skill is you cast on more than 1 target.
From what I saw in tests, Invoke has almost 6 seconds cooldown full buff, I don't know if its normal CD was decreased.
You can... but remember. Regardless of how spammable marks are soon you still run into the same issues.
Most classes have skills to greatly resist and evade debuffs so in many cases any marks you land, especially weakness and trick, are better left on and retrieved at the last second than constantly removed while you struggle to land more marks inbetween retrievers.
Move on to mass pvp to especially 2 healer parties and you have to deal with chained brilliant purge which renders marks, even the instant critical damage because of the healing, useless.
So in most cases spamming mark retriever is not going to happen.
Invoke has a 15 second base reuse.
A poor man summoner with just wizard's and sonatas is going to have a 8 second reuse
A summoner with an istina's necklace is going to have a 7 second reuse
A summoner with an istina's necklace and a refresh augment is going to have a just under a 6 second reuse.
Move on to mass pvp to especially 2 healer parties and you have to deal with chained brilliant purge which renders marks, even the instant critical damage because of the healing, useless.
Don't worry, healers in Lindv won't be near as viable. Pretty much all DPS classes are getting buffed, and healers will be much less effective using heavy armor to negate the ******ED amount of damage coming out of Archers/Dagger/Wars. Those unable to pour tens of billions of Adena into their character will be waiting for a rez most of the time.
What people have not said is that DoT effects obliterate tanks in UD. Also DoT Crits penetrate celestial effects ( i dont think many people know about this ).
Have some enchanter cast celestial protection and spam dots on it, when it crits it will immediately do 10x Tick to their HP even tho they are in a protected state.
Summoners in lindvor melt your hp away and with a solid mcrit build are quite formidable.
What people have not said is that DoT effects obliterate tanks in UD. Also DoT Crits penetrate celestial effects ( i dont think many people know about this ).
Have some enchanter cast celestial protection and spam dots on it, when it crits it will immediately do 10x Tick to their HP even tho they are in a protected state.
Summoners in lindvor melt your hp away and with a solid mcrit build are quite formidable.
What people have not said is that DoT effects obliterate tanks in UD. Also DoT Crits penetrate celestial effects ( i dont think many people know about this ).
Have some enchanter cast celestial protection and spam dots on it, when it crits it will immediately do 10x Tick to their HP even tho they are in a protected state.
Summoners in lindvor melt your hp away and with a solid mcrit build are quite formidable.
still... 2-3 healers in pty gimp the class's whole purpose. but from what I 've heard.. summons do considerable dmg in lindvior & w/ CC finaly working for summons mby we'll see wynns finally doing some constant dps in pvp....
L2 is the most unbalanced MMO I've played until now(I play several MMOs so I know what I'm saying).
Don't expect so much from L2 devs about it, but in Lindvior the situation of summoners was improved a little with some changes such as increasing the duration of marks as well as decreasing their cooldown along with mark crush and convoke that had cooldown decreased and damage increased.
Summoner + boxed Iss still is the best for pve, and the pvp side was improved a little as I said above, but not enough.
It isn't about the unbalance. You can beat, with any class any class at here too, but there is a lots of section of this game. I mean here we have more kinda of PvP and PvE style in Lineage 2 like in another game.
It is totally normal, that different classes or class types better in different area of the game.
We will get back in next month the 35 classes, than will be a lots of variations again, which class to what area will be excellent and to what area will be weak.
Look, I did decide already, that I will Fortune Seeker, it will be a very PvE focused class and might be I won't be able to gank full parties alone, but I do not care.
Also everybody can starts minimum 7 characters per servers or with more account unlimited number of new characters also.
Every class is good right now in PvP also, just we have a little stone-paper-scissors in the PvP, example Wynn good against Iss, Tyrr good against Wynn, Othell good against Tyrr, Tank good against Othell, Healer good against Tank, Feoh good against Healer, Yul good against Feoh etc.
But with special character builds and strategies, mostly we are able to beat any classes (right if we change a setup may we will weaker against another class, while before we did kill it easily).
The western Lineage 2 community sadly always like this. If X player loose a match very fast against another person, he always shouts the another player is cheater or the another class is OP.
I can offer you, that try to record your PvPs and after watch them back, what was the wrong in your fight, what you can do in different mode.
This work very well on Olympiad.
ArcheAge has 120 different classes and is more balanced than L2, not to mention that AA is not based on buffs(there are buffer builds there, but buffs only bring small improvements) and buffs are well distributed among classes, not concentrated in few classes as l2.
ArcheAge has 120 different classes and is more balanced than L2, not to mention that AA is not based on buffs(there are buffer builds there, but buffs only bring small improvements) and buffs are well distributed among classes, not concentrated in few classes as l2.
I think you are on wrong forums buddy..go play your game....
Oh i guess you do and botting in l2..so benefit x2.Nice
ArcheAge has 120 different classes and is more balanced than L2, not to mention that AA is not based on buffs(there are buffer builds there, but buffs only bring small improvements) and buffs are well distributed among classes, not concentrated in few classes as l2.
I think too, that useless to comparing games. It is so typical, that 1-1 fanboy take example a new game, that it is for sure better than an older one.
I only think, that the reflect damage augments are overpowered first of all.
The buff system of Lineage 2 is good as it is. From the Lindvior update people will able to create 6 melody buff potions and Harmony buff potions too.
So any instance or quest will do able without Buffer, to let them the sonatas as extra buffs I guess isn't a so big stuff.
You had right when you told some time ago, that here a problem, that for every party necessary a buffer, well from the Lindvior update not anymore.
There are Buff, HP, CP, MP restore potions, so everything will be able to do without Iss Enchanter too, even if it will slower, harder or more expensive, but will available.
It is a really good thing.
Anyway if you want really unique classes, the "unbalance" as issue can appear often. If you say there are games where are 120 classes too and it is balanced it is just mean, that the difference between classes is really minimal even sometimes so minimal, that the 120 classes acts like 8 mostly.
In AA there are 10 different skill trees, called schools or abilities. When a player creates a char, he can choose 3 schools among those 10 freely, as a result, there are 120 different combinations of skill trees.
So you can make since tradincional classes (pure healer-pure enchanter-pure tanker-pure mage-pure archer-pure dagger, etc), to hybrid classes like warrior-healer-nuker hybrid, depending on wich skill trees you choose.
There is a calculator in russian, I'm waiting for an english version, but so far, only russians have the newest version of the calc:
A don't worry, summoners are as nerfed as improved.The mark retriever has lower chance.Also despite the summons look stronger, they are weaker infact and you`ll most likely lose reapers/bears/cougars for the new summons as it comes live, which you`ll miss alot then.Your old skills will be lost too , like the seraphim, smart cubic and whats not.
The russian PTS is not complete, especially when it comes to fixes, so don't judge by it too much.
So far it seems the nerfed classes are Healers, Summoners, Othells (and archers cos of their stances are now self-buffs lol).
A don't worry, summoners are as nerfed as improved.The mark retriever has lower chance.Also despite the summons look stronger, they are weaker infact and you`ll most likely lose reapers/bears/cougars for the new summons as it comes live, which you`ll miss alot then.Your old skills will be lost too , like the seraphim, smart cubic and whats not.
The russian PTS is not complete, especially when it comes to fixes, so don't judge by it too much.
So far it seems the nerfed classes are Healers, Summoners, Othells (and archers cos of their stances are now self-buffs lol).
Healers were the ones who received the strongest nerf, but necessary: no heavy armor on healers.
I can't even call the change on archers a nerf, besides this little change from toogle to buffs of their stances, many of their skills got buffed: archers are so OP in mass pvp that the number of archer on sieges on korean servers are too high, because of this, devs are preparing a nerf for them in the next update.
Summoners will never have a chance on mass pvp as a great DPS, at least in L2, it's a shame because in other games I play summoners and they are as good as any other class in mass(WoW(beast mastery hunter and demonology warlock) or GW2(necromancer and ranger) are good examples).
Healers were the ones who received the strongest nerf, but necessary: no heavy armor on healers.
What? I can still wear it. I just won't be able to use Frantic Healing. Not that matters much, since the new effect of that toggle is worse than ever.
you`ll most likely lose reapers/bears/cougars for the new summons as it comes live, which you`ll miss alot then.
No
Your old skills will be lost too , like the seraphim, smart cubic and whats not.
No
The russian PTS is not complete, especially when it comes to fixes, so don't judge by it too much.
So far the russian pts is the same experience as the one I had on Korean PTS.
Healers were the ones who received the strongest nerf, but necessary: no heavy armor on healers.
I can't even call the change on archers a nerf, besides this little change from toogle to buffs of their stances, many of their skills got buffed: archers are so OP in mass pvp that the number of archer on sieges on korean servers are too high, because of this, devs are preparing a nerf for them in the next update.
Summoners will never have a chance on mass pvp as a great DPS, at least in L2, it's a shame because in other games I play summoners and they are as good as any other class in mass(WoW(beast mastery hunter and demonology warlock) or GW2(necromancer and ranger) are good examples).
i dont consider that nerfing healers hard, you were never supposed to wear heavy armor so no harm done in theory.
take a closer look at their buffs (previous stances), they lost good part of critical damage. spaming skills as archer is same as being a feoh, that means dumbed down compared with old archers but this is what developers want.
I can't even call the change on archers a nerf, besides this little change from toogle to buffs of their stances, many of their skills got buffed:
are u dumb?
Little change? going from 40% pattack crit damage skill damage to
10% pattack / skill damage is a small nerf?
skills got buffed oo hooray -few seconds skill reuse or maybe only 1 second or maybe no minus skill reuse at all since siege stance give +20% skill reuse i believe i cant remember out of my head thus is removed in lindvior
so i dunno where u pull ur info from but archers recieve a big nerf
and will recieve another one while mages get pumped up and up more and more as if they needed a boost >.<
- Duration of mark dots increased to 10 seconds, including Void that allows you to gain almost 3k or so HP in 10 seconds(and a lot of HP if you cast Void on several targets).
- Cooldown of Marks dots and Crusher decreased to 5 seconds(almost instant full buffed) that allows you to spam nukes like crazy.
- Cooldown of Invoke decreased(I don't know how much) but full buff, its CD is 6 seconds.
- Range of all these skills are 900.
For a game that has forgotten about summoners for 8+ years, these changes are a big advance.
I'd be happier if they gave summon's skills a chance to crit, because auto-attacks crit of the new servitors deal more damage than their skills.
ROFL yea ive been playing on the PTS yesterday and today, and the summoners are wtf OP.
Dont you fret orgininal poster trashcan summoner. You will be soo overpowered even you will have a hard time screwiing the class up. Enjoy
Little change? going from 40% pattack crit damage skill damage to
10% pattack / skill damage is a small nerf?
skills got buffed oo hooray -few seconds skill reuse or maybe only 1 second or maybe no minus skill reuse at all since siege stance give +20% skill reuse i believe i cant remember out of my head thus is removed in lindvior
so i dunno where u pull ur info from but archers recieve a big nerf
and will recieve another one while mages get pumped up and up more and more as if they needed a boost >.<
Still doing awesome damage with my archer. I don't see any problem.
Still doing awesome damage with my archer. I don't see any problem.
same. although this chronicle everyone is getting boosted so its actually pretty even except summoners are just ridiculous. This will definitely be the chronicle of summoner.
same. although this chronicle everyone is getting boosted so its actually pretty even except summoners are just ridiculous. This will definitely be the chronicle of summoner.
Summoners have never been anything in this game, except for some farm and oly.
Chronicle rulers will always be among archer - dagger - nuker - Some warriors(probably developers play them).
Summoners have never been anything in this game, except for some farm and oly.
Chronicle rulers will always be among archer - dagger - nuker - Some warriors(probably developers play them).
if the innova pts is any indication of how lindvior will be, any decently geared summoner who knows how to spam marks+retrieval will pwn anything.
when GoD first dropped summoners were very strong. But yea I have to agree summoners never have been the OP class, and tbh I aint gonna qq cuz they are this chonicle.
Summoners are only useful for mana sharing. Why the decided to remove it god knows...
=\
In some cases I have invited summoners for mana share. Since then I have yet to run into any mana problems in any parties unless someone was being wasteful with mana.
I love this thread. It is already hard to kill anything but archer, dagger and feoh, now you want to put 30% dmg reduction.
Lindvior will not change much of stuff. Maby it will make the PvP finish sooner. But if ppl do not care about "getting farmed" a PvP of grp vs grp should still continue over an hour.
I love this thread. It is already hard to kill anything but archer, dagger and feoh, now you want to put 30% dmg reduction.
Lindvior will not change much of stuff. Maby it will make the PvP finish sooner. But if ppl do not care about "getting farmed" a PvP of grp vs grp should still continue over an hour.
The only way to really make pvp end faster is by nerfing healers. A good start would be to give the same penalty for wearing heavy armor as it was before GoD.
Or by somehow limiting the way pots can be spammed. Whether it be by cooldowns or by adding extreme weight to health potions.
Changing healer's res to a static 80/90% might affect how often people would be willing to die although brez currently is better because it casts faster anyways.
I belive that healers should not be wearing Heavy armor.
And lets get back to our roots here, Since when the hell can a healer HEAL CP!!! Take that crap away too. Most classes have enough life to sustain them for 1-2 seconds in a real fight. ;) Thats why they make CP pots.
I belive that healers should not be wearing Heavy armor.
And lets get back to our roots here, Since when the hell can a healer HEAL CP!!! Take that crap away too. Most classes have enough life to sustain them for 1-2 seconds in a real fight. ;) Thats why they make CP pots.
I agree yet disagree. If you change the emphasis back to cp pots then that adds an advantage to program users. I don't think healers should be able to heal cp as effectively as they can and they shouldn't wear heavy also brilliant purge should either have a longer cooldown or a shorter buff duration.
The only way to really make pvp end faster is by nerfing healers. A good start would be to give the same penalty for wearing heavy armor as it was before GoD.
Or by somehow limiting the way pots can be spammed. Whether it be by cooldowns or by adding extreme weight to health potions.
Changing healer's res to a static 80/90% might affect how often people would be willing to die although brez currently is better because it casts faster anyways.
I actually love that the healers can wear heavy. In this way I do some dmg to them.
Nah what should rly be done is to bumb up the DPS as they do. A class like Feoh should not be hitting ppl for 1-2k dps and 7k crits at best.
Basically the classes hp plus CP looks like before x10. However the damage is much, much lower. Some classes have too much def skills and for too long in comparison with others. I also agree that Briliant Purge should have either lower effect or longer CD.
About pot spamming. What they can do is to limit them to healing CP only but no HP.
Why the hell you play that class if you come here to complain? :D The game is like it is an you cannot do anything about it. Just get some gear or change your class, I can't see any problem in that. As for pvp damage, lineage2 was always imbalanced and all classes had their pros/cons. As regards archers, they are supposed to make good damage. Consider the fact that real ancient warriors used bows and arrows as a lethal weapon :rolleyes:
I actually love that the healers can wear heavy. In this way I do some dmg to them.
Nah what should rly be done is to bumb up the DPS as they do. A class like Feoh should not be hitting ppl for 1-2k dps and 7k crits at best.
Basically the classes hp plus CP looks like before x10. However the damage is much, much lower. Some classes have too much def skills and for too long in comparison with others. I also agree that Briliant Purge should have either lower effect or longer CD.
About pot spamming. What they can do is to limit them to healing CP only but no HP.
I have istina/oct jewels on my archer and still feoh hits far more than 1-2k ;) Feoh is still powerful on pvp, not taking into account pdef which is funny :D
I actually love that the healers can wear heavy. In this way I do some dmg to them.
Nah what should rly be done is to bumb up the DPS as they do. A class like Feoh should not be hitting ppl for 1-2k dps and 7k crits at best.
Basically the classes hp plus CP looks like before x10. However the damage is much, much lower. Some classes have too much def skills and for too long in comparison with others. I also agree that Briliant Purge should have either lower effect or longer CD.
About pot spamming. What they can do is to limit them to healing CP only but no HP.
Certain healers with insane wit setups can still wear hvy in lindvior however there heal power will b greatly reduced going all wit and most likely will need a second healer in robes.
The people your currently hitting for only 1-2k are the same people I hit for 1-2k as a 97 archer with similiar gear that you have. Therefor its an extremely biased opinion you got there.
Pots are the foremost thing they need to get rid of. Only pots that should be ingame are CP pots that heal CP only for 300-500, and Oly pots that you can only get through OLY manager and not tradeable. These CoC pots/draco pots you can farm with bots are ridiculous. 2.5-5k hp+cp are BS in my honest opinion. NCwest needs to actually do some work by themselves and get rid of them, or come up with a better anti-cheat program.
The only way to really make pvp end faster is by nerfing healers.
I don't think healers need to be nerfed more (in Lindvior). Based on my experience on the PTS, healers are already screwed because they have two choices:
1- Wear robes and get 1-shot by daggers/archers
2- Wear heavy and get 1-shot by necro/DoT'd by summoner in 5 seconds.
Imo what should be done to make pvp faster (if that is actually needed) is to increase cooldown of healer/iss ress, add a cooldown to brez and nerf draco/qhp.
@Maya: Trust me, feohs are more likely to crit for 70k than 7k in Lindvior.
a wynn just needs lvl...and gear on Lindvior 2s reuse on marks..2x exile and slow reuse and dimensional binding..srsly wynn shouldnt cry about that at all...
Certain healers with insane wit setups can still wear hvy in lindvior however there heal power will b greatly reduced going all wit and most likely will need a second healer in robes.
The people your currently hitting for only 1-2k are the same people I hit for 1-2k as a 97 archer with similiar gear that you have. Therefor its an extremely biased opinion you got there.
Pots are the foremost thing they need to get rid of. Only pots that should be ingame are CP pots that heal CP only for 300-500, and Oly pots that you can only get through OLY manager and not tradeable. These CoC pots/draco pots you can farm with bots are ridiculous. 2.5-5k hp+cp are BS in my honest opinion. NCwest needs to actually do some work by themselves and get rid of them, or come up with a better anti-cheat program.
No not rly. Healers will stay in heavy. No healer was using frantic healing anyway, so they will not use it again.
See my dmg is constant, my crits are once in awhile and again are a constant dps. The variations you have are huge. You may even hit me twice trice for 1-2k, but then crit me for 20k 2 times in a row.
Nah oly pots should be removed too. It should be only CP pots that would heal your CP for 1-2k so their influence in pvp is rly low. Right now if you meet somebody with 300 pots you can not do anything to him. Even in grp PvP where the damage gets assisted from 2-3 DDs he can still out pot it.
I don't think healers need to be nerfed more (in Lindvior). Based on my experience on the PTS, healers are already screwed because they have two choices:
1- Wear robes and get 1-shot by daggers/archers
2- Wear heavy and get 1-shot by necro/DoT'd by summoner in 5 seconds.
Imo what should be done to make pvp faster (if that is actually needed) is to increase cooldown of healer/iss ress, add a cooldown to brez and nerf draco/qhp.
@Maya: Trust me, feohs are more likely to crit for 70k than 7k in Lindvior.
I cant trust you buddy. Wear heavy put decent jewels and you can survive both. Ah use cleanse and mass cleanse too to remove debuffs. It is spammable you know.
70k? With bless valakas, improved baium and improved AQ... and some +++ wpn and stacked debuffs - then yeah. How many people will have access to this gear you think?
I don't think healers need to be nerfed more (in Lindvior). Based on my experience on the PTS, healers are already screwed because they have two choices:
1- Wear robes and get 1-shot by daggers/archers
2- Wear heavy and get 1-shot by necro/DoT'd by summoner in 5 seconds.
Imo what should be done to make pvp faster (if that is actually needed) is to increase cooldown of healer/iss ress, add a cooldown to brez and nerf draco/qhp.
@Maya: Trust me, feohs are more likely to crit for 70k than 7k in Lindvior.
I cant trust you buddy. Wear heavy put decent jewels and you can survive both. Ah use cleanse and mass cleanse too to remove debuffs. It is spammable you know.
70k? With bless valakas, improved baium and improved AQ... and some +++ wpn and stacked debuffs - then yeah. How many people will have access to this gear you think?
With several debuffs I could see it being possible but in party vs party pvp debuffs last 1-3 seconds max. If purge and other debuff removers were nerfed pvp would be much much shorter. I think some debuffs shouldn't be removeable.
I cant trust you buddy. Wear heavy put decent jewels and you can survive both. Ah use cleanse and mass cleanse too to remove debuffs. It is spammable you know.
the nerf on healers side isnt on the heavy usage or not, but in something beyond that - the mana. and you know, a healer without mana is a complete redundant garbage.
I don't think healers need to be nerfed more (in Lindvior). Based on my experience on the PTS, healers are already screwed because they have two choices:
1- Wear robes and get 1-shot by daggers/archers
2- Wear heavy and get 1-shot by necro/DoT'd by summoner in 5 seconds.
Imo what should be done to make pvp faster (if that is actually needed) is to increase cooldown of healer/iss ress, add a cooldown to brez and nerf draco/qhp.
@Maya: Trust me, feohs are more likely to crit for 70k than 7k in Lindvior.
3. wear heavy (and wiz) and get 3 sec by tyrr
seriously, healers are as screwed as feohs
3. wear heavy (and wiz) and get 3 sec by tyrr
seriously, healers are as screwed as feohs
use knights and a shield with full elemented Armour there are very few tyyrs out there that can 3 shot you unless they got boost/br/rage on all at same time lol
Totaly agree, my reapers did 86 damage on a warrior at the same level range and he had immortal gear. An archer would would do several thousand.
I remember my arcana lord did 300 on a crit to a grade robe user before awakening.
Its ********.
You could even lower pvp damage on archer with 50%
use knights and a shield with full elemented Armour there are very few tyyrs out there that can 3 shot you unless they got boost/br/rage on all at same time lol
3 shot is not 3 sec. its not about elemement or other thing but is stupid to war heavy and knight because that the only way you can probably survive. btw shield doesnt do much agaisnt tyrrs because they have skills that ignore shield defense.
3 shot is not 3 sec. its not about elemement or other thing but is stupid to war heavy and knight because that the only way you can probably survive. btw shield doesnt do much against tyrrs because they have skills that ignore shield defense.
3 shot is not 3 secs.
got that point... I have a feeling that was a translation issue.
Its not about element etc etc
Element is a huge part of pvp variables. Huge. Depending on the element of opposing toon, you hit upwards of 30% more with 300 elemented weapon, accordingly, without good element ur receiving 50-60% more dmg roughly. So yes, element is a huge part.
Shields do add a decent amount of pdef, and can block normal attacks that if their a crit, can do a ton of dmg. So shields do add more then you would think regardless of shield defense ignoring attacks.
Only time a tyyr will 3 shot a healer with equal gear/level.... is if they got boost up and they get a skill crit or boost+rage plus maybe a skill crit, or boost+rage+BR or boost+Duelist spirit+BR
alot of or's in that scenario
Just like a feoh can do the same with his CD's
Just like a archer can with his CD's/CC
Just like a Summoner can with yoke (well kill you in those 10 secs. you get the point)
Just like a dagger can with his CD's
you starting to get the point?
Also healers are supposed to die fast in pvp, just like feohs, just like archers. Daggers tbh at this point have too many UE's imho but without UE daggers die fast too.
Your %s on elements is wrong. The least amount of element defense someone might have in typical pvp would be 240 to each not taking into account buffs and passives. So even best case scenario you have 50-80 more atk element than defense element. Compare that to 360+ element resist. 20-30% damage difference at most and that's being generous. Although even a 10% difference is rather big.
element doesnt really mater because on that pts ppl run around with 400+ element resist. and shield doesnt add any defense, only when you block. should revise what ignoring shield defense means. why a healer should die fast, why a feoh should die fast... when they do less damage than other dd? there is no logic in what are you saying
Your %s on elements is wrong. The least amount of element defense someone might have in typical pvp would be 240 to each not taking into account buffs and passives. So even best case scenario you have 50-80 more atk element than defense element. Compare that to 360+ element resist. 20-30% damage difference at most and that's being generous. Although even a 10% difference is rather big.
I tested the 1 ncoin hero weapon currently verse +4 specter 300 weapon.
hero bow had like 300 more p atk but 0 element
specter bow had roughlly 300 p atk less but 300 holy. +4 so adds extra skill power dmg.
I was doing roughly anywhere from 15%-25% more dmg with specter bow per pinpoint shot.
This was all against a iss that had 335 holy defense. both lvl 97.
So, taking into the fact that had my iss had 0 or low holy resist, I could potentially do that much more dmg.
I gotta start writing these numbers down lol. I may purchase another hero weapon to do it again to make sure this is 100% correct.
But I know element is a huge part of pvp defense/attack. I also know it is very substantial.
element doesnt really mater because on that pts ppl run around with 400+ element resist. and shield doesnt add any defense, only when you block. should revise what ignoring shield defense means. why a healer should die fast, why a feoh should die fast... when they do less damage than other dd? there is no logic in what are you saying
and feohs do actually do as much dmg in pvp as archers.
Feohs hit tanks/iss's/healers in hvy harder then a equal lvl/gear archer can.
Feohs hit just as hard vs daggers/archers as a archer can.
Feohs are getting a 10% boost in dmg in lindvior. I feel they could have done this its not a bad option however I feel it would have been better to boost their survivalbility by 10% would have been better. I can see why they went the route they did seeing how the latter would have changed overall game mechanics too much.
The archers that hid hard as *** are archers who minds eye up + CC
OR
Abuse stance scripts which give them insane burst dmg.
The latter is being fixed in lindvior.
+4 weapon vs +4 weapon dps with a archer is working as intended. This is my honest opinion due to the fact I have played a lot of toons at a slew of level ranges in PvP. However my current main is yul so my opinion may be biased however I doubt it is.
Archers are working as intended in lindvior. Honestly some really solid changes happened if the innova pts is any indication how it will actually be on ncwest lindvior.
Only classes that get OP is summoners/tanks. Certain tanks like DE tanks keep their insane pdef+shield def rate+cubic but gain a skill or two that furthers their toon.
Summoners get 5-8 second DOT CD's and become feohs with summons+transfer pain.
Yet if you watch Korean PvP videos and read the next updates patch notes you will notice - archers in all PvP vids and they getting nerfed, while Feohs getting boosted drastically in the next updates (10 sec self cellestial instead of 3, 20 sec spammable CD on arcane barrier with huge mp reduction rate).
Well obviously. Who are you going to fight that has less than 240 resistance to each element? No one that matters. In most endgame pvp situations element will only affect maybe 10% damage based on your element choice and your targets resists. You can over resist up to 25% damage and can cause 25% more damage as well so 50% variance is as much variance that is possible but nearly impossible currently to have more than 220 atk element over your opponents resist. Everyone has 300 element on their weapon and 1800 mixed element on their armor. I've seen every element type used on weapons so completely stacking against one element is a lacking strategy.
Well obviously. Who are you going to fight that has less than 240 resistance to each element? No one that matters. In most endgame pvp situations element will only affect maybe 10% damage based on your element choice and your targets resists. You can over resist up to 25% damage and can cause 25% more damage as well so 50% variance is as much variance that is possible but nearly impossible currently to have more than 220 atk element over your opponents resist. Everyone has 300 element on their weapon and 1800 mixed element on their armor. I've seen every element type used on weapons so completely stacking against one element is a lacking strategy.
Oh I totally agree.
However just pointing out healers who constantly QQ about getting 2-3 shotted with heavy or not and saying every class needs to be nerfed so they can tank dmg and nuke you..... lol
What I am saying is the people who complain about this are usually people who do not understand basic game mechanics therefor most likely have garbage element, do not use a shield, do not know how to work harmony's around to your advantage.
Yet if you watch Korean PvP videos and read the next updates patch notes you will notice - archers in all PvP vids and they getting nerfed, while Feohs getting boosted drastically in the next updates (10 sec self cellestial instead of 3, 20 sec spammable CD on arcane barrier with huge mp reduction rate).
Your opinion stinksof your bias-ism.
Nerf your enemy in pvp.
Boost yourself so you can kill every. single. class.
This is not a single player pve game, this is a MASS pvp game. Therefor certain classes regardless of skill and even some cases gear cannot kill another class a vast majority of the time.
7v7 your class is working more then fine currently. and even more so in next patch. Just because they going to nerf the archer in the near future doesnt mean thats necessary. Every chronicle a class get nerfed, then boosted, then nerfed etc.
Just cuase archer getting nerfed doesnt necessarily mean its currently OP. I can almost guarantee a few patches after that one it will be boosted again....
Boost yourself so you can kill every. single. class.
This is not a single player pve game, this is a MASS pvp game. Therefor certain classes regardless of skill and even some cases gear cannot kill another class a vast majority of the time.
7v7 your class is working more then fine currently. and even more so in next patch. Just because they going to nerf the archer in the near future doesnt mean thats necessary. Every chronicle a class get nerfed, then boosted, then nerfed etc.
Just cuase archer getting nerfed doesnt necessarily mean its currently OP. I can almost guarantee a few patches after that one it will be boosted again....
I will ask you few questions and hopefully you will get the point.
Do you see healers in heavy? Do you think this is typical for lineage 2?
Do you see mages in heavy? Do you think this is normal?
Do you see archers in robes?
Do you see any class in robes beside mages?
Do you follow me?
If my class was working you would see healers in robes, cause mages would do damage to them. If my class was working you would not see any mages in Heavy.
If my class was OP you would see people running in Robes. If it was doing any good damage the rest DD would not carry B grade and S grade jewels. Healers would not buy Antharas or Blessed Zaken. People would not use at all Frintezza and Zaken. Yet this is common and normal.
Can you imagine me running with Dark Crystal robe cause it gives cast speed? Can you imagine I got crit for 20k from an archer in twilight today? Have you ever played a Feoh to see what it is to be paper and to see everyone running after you and targeting you, because you are the only class dying out there and can be easily farmed in a PvP?
However just pointing out healers who constantly QQ about getting 2-3 shotted with heavy or not and saying every class needs to be nerfed so they can tank dmg and nuke you..... lol
What I am saying is the people who complain about this are usually people who do not understand basic game mechanics therefor most likely have garbage element, do not use a shield, do not know how to work harmony's around to your advantage.
Thats all im getting at
No reason to talk about those noobs.. lol although im sure there are a few of those that make it into "top" pvp clans sadly.
and feohs do actually do as much dmg in pvp as archers.
Feohs hit tanks/iss's/healers in hvy harder then a equal lvl/gear archer can.
Feohs hit just as hard vs daggers/archers as a archer can.
Feohs are getting a 10% boost in dmg in lindvior. I feel they could have done this its not a bad option however I feel it would have been better to boost their survivalbility by 10% would have been better. I can see why they went the route they did seeing how the latter would have changed overall game mechanics too much.
The archers that hid hard as *** are archers who minds eye up + CC
OR
Abuse stance scripts which give them insane burst dmg.
The latter is being fixed in lindvior.
+4 weapon vs +4 weapon dps with a archer is working as intended. This is my honest opinion due to the fact I have played a lot of toons at a slew of level ranges in PvP. However my current main is yul so my opinion may be biased however I doubt it is.
Archers are working as intended in lindvior. Honestly some really solid changes happened if the innova pts is any indication how it will actually be on ncwest lindvior.
Only classes that get OP is summoners/tanks. Certain tanks like DE tanks keep their insane pdef+shield def rate+cubic but gain a skill or two that furthers their toon.
Summoners get 5-8 second DOT CD's and become feohs with summons+transfer pain.
its an improvement to mages but archers hit much harder. on top of that you have pinpoint with insane low reuse. an archer with wizard and +15 dex gonna kick your *** and never see it coming xD
because of the change in crit damage reduction, daggers can hit 20k+ on heavy. robe is literally 1 shot of their hp.
i havent seen 1 single mage 1 shoting anyone. ask jik why he is so terrible on pts, is it the lack of scripts there or the class is weak or maybe both? :)
the only chance is to have everything as mage that this game has to offer, red weapons +++armor and everything else. but i tested enchants on magic weapons, safe to say none on the pts has red magic weapons, personally i havent got one above 6 and broke tons of them.
archers get a bit nerfed eventually but they also gain magic defenses in a future update
tanks... kinda impossible to kill them with any class if they have pots to spam
I play on chronos and you hit me for 6-8k per skill and critted me once for 12k, I have seraph+CoC shock earring. You hit me harder then you're really letting on. The 10% boost in dmg in next update will give your class a much needed boost. Feoh is not the OP class this chronicle or next however its definitely NOT gimp.
Archers again, hit some classes hard then feohs, however feohs hit other classes harder.
Feohs are supposed to be glass cannons. There 10% boost in m atk furthers that in next update.
Feohs that use heavy with wizards.... I dont see the point. imho using knights with a shield and robes gives you more survivability. Daggers/archers dont crit you near as much and you will block a decent amount of regular attacks, but reduce you atk spd,mcrit a bit
I play on chronos and you hit me for 6-8k per skill and critted me once for 12k, I have seraph+CoC shock earring. You hit me harder then you're really letting on. The 10% boost in dmg in next update will give your class a much needed boost. Feoh is not the OP class this chronicle or next however its definitely NOT gimp.
Archers again, hit some classes hard then feohs, however feohs hit other classes harder.
Feohs are supposed to be glass cannons. There 10% boost in m atk furthers that in next update.
Feohs that use heavy with wizards.... I dont see the point. imho using knights with a shield and robes gives you more survivability. Daggers/archers dont crit you near as much and you will block a decent amount of regular attacks, but reduce you atk spd,mcrit a bit
Also, have you ever fought a 2-3 nuker pt with 2 healers? I have, and when I am dead on the ground the whole fight due to them dropping me first, I don't QQ that feohs hit too hard. Their just smart who know to kill me/dagger first because thats who hits them hardest
I play on chronos and you hit me for 6-8k per skill and critted me once for 12k, I have seraph+CoC shock earring. You hit me harder then you're really letting on. The 10% boost in dmg in next update will give your class a much needed boost. Feoh is not the OP class this chronicle or next however its definitely NOT gimp.
Archers again, hit some classes hard then feohs, however feohs hit other classes harder.
Feohs are supposed to be glass cannons. There 10% boost in m atk furthers that in next update.
Feohs that use heavy with wizards.... I dont see the point. imho using knights with a shield and robes gives you more survivability. Daggers/archers dont crit you near as much and you will block a decent amount of regular attacks, but reduce you atk spd,mcrit a bit
Daggers almost always hit from behind so shield is useless against daggers.
Highest dmg i remember from any nuker on me was from exeqtor..~15k and thats 2 lvls diference on hvy armor, now imagine how much i reflect to him with double reflect augs. They are easily shrugged off on pvp unless they have god-like gear, since Tauti they're not a threat to anybody, im much more afraid of tyrrs in boost, or archers with skills crits, and now in lindvior, i had to go hvy on my wynn to destroy daggers, or they destroy me on robe.
Feohs were only dangerous before the elemental system was made to not have such a strong effect. Now they hit rogues, archers, enchanters and UDless tanks hard and don't do much against other feohs, healers and summoners.
However the same could be said for archers only archers still hit classes in heavy, besides tanks, harder than a feoh hits rogues, archers and enchanters. Also the whole thing the devs were going for with feohs was AOE damage in which the area you see them shine is in AOE pve and castle sieges especially in bottlenecks. In open areas with a lesser amount of people it is less effective but that's what you have shadow snare for.
Despite that, since a lot of people want to talk about a MMO from a 1v1 perspective all the time lets do that then. Feohs are perfectly fine only if you have the reflexes and knowledge of when to use their skills. If you lack one of those you will lose most of your fights.
If you can't amount to the requirements to play the class, reroll, quit or deal with it. Also you guys should play with the Russians. Every now and then you meet players who can play their class........ with their hands.
Now continue to tell me about how weak feoh wizards are.
Feohs were only dangerous before the elemental system was made to not have such a strong effect. Now they hit rogues, archers, enchanters and UDless tanks hard and don't do much against other feohs, healers and summoners.
However the same could be said for archers only archers still hit classes in heavy, besides tanks, harder than a feoh hits rogues, archers and enchanters. Also the whole thing the devs were going for with feohs was AOE damage in which the area you see them shine is in AOE pve and castle sieges especially in bottlenecks. In open areas with a lesser amount of people it is less effective but that's what you have shadow snare for.
Despite that, since a lot of people want to talk about a MMO from a 1v1 perspective all the time lets do that then. Feohs are perfectly fine only if you have the reflexes and knowledge of when to use their skills. If you lack one of those you will lose most of your fights.
If you can't amount to the requirements to play the class, reroll, quit or deal with it. Also you guys should play with the Russians. Every now and then you meet players who can play their class........ with their hands.
Now continue to tell me about how weak feoh wizards are.
That shouldn't be hard considering you haven't demonstrated a single **** thing except that Feohs need much higher single target damage or some way to severely reduce incoming damage. Or failing that NC needs to cap the amount of damage any player can receive in an attack equal to some % of that player's hp.
That shouldn't be hard considering you haven't demonstrated a single **** thing except that Feohs need much higher single target damage or some way to severely reduce incoming damage. Or failing that NC needs to cap the amount of damage any player can receive in an attack equal to some % of that player's hp.
So I'm considering this was a tl;dr so I'll make it short.
I play on chronos and you hit me for 6-8k per skill and critted me once for 12k, I have seraph+CoC shock earring. You hit me harder then you're really letting on. The 10% boost in dmg in next update will give your class a much needed boost. Feoh is not the OP class this chronicle or next however its definitely NOT gimp.
Archers again, hit some classes hard then feohs, however feohs hit other classes harder.
Feohs are supposed to be glass cannons. There 10% boost in m atk furthers that in next update.
Feohs that use heavy with wizards.... I dont see the point. imho using knights with a shield and robes gives you more survivability. Daggers/archers dont crit you near as much and you will block a decent amount of regular attacks, but reduce you atk spd,mcrit a bit
If you are getbuthurt and you are talking about that SoS PvP I had BR there.
If Feohs are supposed to be glass cannon that means they should kill everything as fast as they die from everything. A game ballance is this - you are an archer and you hit me for 20k on crit, then I should also hit you for 20k on crit, considering we have around the same amount of hp plus cp. You are a tyrr and you hit me for 20k then I should hit you for 80k, considering the fact you have 4 times more CP plus HP. You are a tank and u hit me for 2k, then I should hit you for 8k easily. Right now whats happening is only the first.
Yeah I also do not see the point of a heavy armor, shield with knights is better for defense, but you need a lot of reuse.
Feohs were only dangerous before the elemental system was made to not have such a strong effect. Now they hit rogues, archers, enchanters and UDless tanks hard and don't do much against other feohs, healers and summoners.
However the same could be said for archers only archers still hit classes in heavy, besides tanks, harder than a feoh hits rogues, archers and enchanters. Also the whole thing the devs were going for with feohs was AOE damage in which the area you see them shine is in AOE pve and castle sieges especially in bottlenecks. In open areas with a lesser amount of people it is less effective but that's what you have shadow snare for.
Despite that, since a lot of people want to talk about a MMO from a 1v1 perspective all the time lets do that then. Feohs are perfectly fine only if you have the reflexes and knowledge of when to use their skills. If you lack one of those you will lose most of your fights.
If you can't amount to the requirements to play the class, reroll, quit or deal with it. Also you guys should play with the Russians. Every now and then you meet players who can play their class........ with their hands.
Now continue to tell me about how weak feoh wizards are.
You do not hit anyone hard. I mean literally anyone. Daggers have too much defensive skills to be hitted hard, archers also have better defensive skills. You do not hit tanks cause you get killed from reflect.
At sieges feohs are strong, but not rly stronger than archers.
I have reflexes as an exp pro shooter player, and I am a smart player, despite the fact that I am 97 in Chronos there are not more than 5 mages that can beat me in oly and it seems there are no more than 2 Feohs doing better than me in CoC. Yet I get ***** here and there from total randoms in open PvP. Feohs are weak and have been week for awhile. A perfect prove for that is what they get in future updates - 10 sec celle and spammable defensive skill. Obviously the class is not working as intended.
Another thing is ranger totally fks up feohs. And we know that u can count the legit players at NCNA on the fingers of your hands.
So basically playe better does not work. Nor does reroll or quit. I can not see myself playing any other class as they are totally boring. I can fall asleep on my healer being so OP and easy to play.
You do not hit anyone hard. I mean literally anyone. Daggers have too much defensive skills to be hitted hard, archers also have better defensive skills. You do not hit tanks cause you get killed from reflect.
At sieges feohs are strong, but not rly stronger than archers.
I have reflexes as an exp pro shooter player, and I am a smart player, despite the fact that I am 97 in Chronos there are not more than 5 mages that can beat me in oly and it seems there are no more than 2 Feohs doing better than me in CoC. Yet I get ***** here and there from total randoms in open PvP. Feohs are weak and have been week for awhile. A perfect prove for that is what they get in future updates - 10 sec celle and spammable defensive skill. Obviously the class is not working as intended.
Another thing is ranger totally fks up feohs. And we know that u can count the legit players at NCNA on the fingers of your hands.
So basically playe better does not work. Nor does reroll or quit. I can not see myself playing any other class as they are totally boring. I can fall asleep on my healer being so OP and easy to play.
Worry about getting to level 99 then start pvping.
I am 98 already actually, just havent done oly in awhile and that is why I mentioned I ve done what I ve done at it at lvl 97. There is not big difference between 97 and 98. Not at least significant one. My skills are well enchanted already and I doubt my toon will improve too much at 99 even with the upgraded grade of armor and weapon. What you need on Feoh to do dmg is plus plus wpn, valakas (or blessed), longing and now on this update improved baium and AQ.. What you need to survive with Feoh is ... plus 10 blessed armor set - otherwise you are paper.
I am not speaking crap here. Feoh sux and will suck even more in Lindvior. The only positives are that healers will not be able to farm us in oly, open PvP or CoC.... everything else - easilly!
a good + for feohs in lind is that 1100 u can gank easily but yes they are still very squishy.on pts even those with +6 eternal robe were like 4 shot from my tyr,even with barier up if 2 skill would crit his mp=0
I am 98 already actually, just havent done oly in awhile and that is why I mentioned I ve done what I ve done at it at lvl 97. There is not big difference between 97 and 98. Not at least significant one. My skills are well enchanted already and I doubt my toon will improve too much at 99 even with the upgraded grade of armor and weapon. What you need on Feoh to do dmg is plus plus wpn, valakas (or blessed), longing and now on this update improved baium and AQ.. What you need to survive with Feoh is ... plus 10 blessed armor set - otherwise you are paper.
I am not speaking crap here. Feoh sux and will suck even more in Lindvior. The only positives are that healers will not be able to farm us in oly, open PvP or CoC.... everything else - easilly!
You definitely see a boost at 99 from skill enchants. Feohs have been gimp, but they will be fotm soon enough.
I will ask you few questions and hopefully you will get the point.
Do you see healers in heavy? Do you think this is typical for lineage 2?
Do you see mages in heavy? Do you think this is normal?
Do you see archers in robes?
Do you see any class in robes beside mages?
Do you follow me?
If my class was working you would see healers in robes, cause mages would do damage to them. If my class was working you would not see any mages in Heavy.
If my class was OP you would see people running in Robes. If it was doing any good damage the rest DD would not carry B grade and S grade jewels. Healers would not buy Antharas or Blessed Zaken. People would not use at all Frintezza and Zaken. Yet this is common and normal.
Can you imagine me running with Dark Crystal robe cause it gives cast speed? Can you imagine I got crit for 20k from an archer in twilight today? Have you ever played a Feoh to see what it is to be paper and to see everyone running after you and targeting you, because you are the only class dying out there and can be easily farmed in a PvP?
you seem to be missing the fact that theres 5 classes that deal physical damage, 1 class that uses both magic and physical (wynns) and 2 that deal pure magic damage, and one of them is healers so you wont be taking their damage on pvp unless they have 2-3 healers in one party and they find some time to start striking at you instead of spamming heals
but i have to agree with you in one thing, yuls damage is just messed up and they deserve a nerf
Brilliant mark spam crits. :) they ignore everything.
Also... ignore poor DDs... perma focus on healers...
In addition... hate lock capabilities if wynns go bear/new tank summon...
a good + for feohs in lind is that 1100 u can gank easily but yes they are still very squishy.on pts even those with +6 eternal robe were like 4 shot from my tyr,even with barier up if 2 skill would crit his mp=0
gank easily on our servers? haha
and how having 1100 ranger is better than having hide for ganks?
you seem to be missing the fact that theres 5 classes that deal physical damage, 1 class that uses both magic and physical (wynns) and 2 that deal pure magic damage, and one of them is healers so you wont be taking their damage on pvp unless they have 2-3 healers in one party and they find some time to start striking at you instead of spamming heals
but i have to agree with you in one thing, yuls damage is just messed up and they deserve a nerf
whats your point? or u missing the point that physıcal dps is messed up in general and magic dps is weak. If we want to ballance the game currently we should increase the magical dps by 2 at least and that might not be enough. then you will have healers running in robes and feohs actually beeing glass cannon (not just glass). Which will actually make physical DDs kill healers eassier.
Brilliant mark spam crits. :) they ignore everything.
Also... ignore poor DDs... perma focus on healers...
In addition... hate lock capabilities if wynns go bear/new tank summon...
whats your point? or u missing the point that physıcal dps is messed up in general and magic dps is weak. If we want to ballance the game currently we should increase the magical dps by 2 at least and that might not be enough. then you will have healers running in robes and feohs actually beeing glass cannon (not just glass). Which will actually make physical DDs kill healers eassier.
If you did that, there would be a huge influx of nukers.
So I'm considering this was a tl;dr so I'll make it short.
Play better.
No I read what you wrote, and it was all dross.
Which is why I wasn't suprised to see a "Play better" from you. In fact the only surprise would be if I didn't see one.
Everyone who is commenting to someone voicing legitimate concerns about an underpowered or overpowered class always says some variation of "L2P" because in reality they want to maintain the superiority of their own class or are afraid that if the problems in a class are fixed then they won't fair as well against or with that class.
Yes, we need to avoid fixing the obvious problems with a class because more people would play them if we fixed them. That is amazing logic.
Realize this. Classes are mostly balanced by Korean play trends. And their play trends are opposite of ours. While we mostly play certain classes for strengths they mostly play certain classes for aesthetics. And as such, guess which group of players the classes are balanced around?
You can pretty say that feoh wizards aren't a easy-to-play, steamroll class because their attacks look pretty and tyrr warriors tread over other classes like cake because they're crude and burlesque.
That is Korean logic and how the game is balanced.
Then where is the huge nerf to Tyrrs?
The fact that there isn't one coming down the pipes means that Korean logic is based on hating mages which is why they decided to square root magic atack in the magic damage formula and why magic weapons have the lowest enchant success rate in the game even though gain the least benefit from overenchanting their weapons because the m attack gets square rooted when calculating damage.
Yamino edited above: "Realize this. Classes are mostly balanced by Korean play trends. And their play trends are opposite of ours. While we mostly play certain classes for strengths they mostly play certain classes for aesthetics. And as such, guess which group of players the classes are balanced around?"
Which only furthers my argument that the classes aren't balanced. What you are saying is that the Koreans intentionally imbalance the classes in order to try forcing people away from the intentionally overnerfed classes and into the intentionally overbuffed classes which if actually successful would only cause the entire population to shift from mostly playing class A to mostly playing class B. And if that doesn't happen it tends to suggest that such intentional imbalances don't have the desired effect and therefore were not only pointless but also derogatory to the players' game experience. So no matter how you look at it the developers are acting irrationally either by creating intentional imbalances that don't have the desired effect or by trying to force their own personal preferences on the players when they already demonstrated that their preferences are not superior or more rationally based than the choices made by the players.
You are a tyrr and you hit me for 20k then I should hit you for 80k, considering the fact you have 4 times more CP plus HP. You are a tank and u hit me for 2k, then I should hit you for 8k easily. Right now whats happening is only the first.
i dont think thats the case, i mean some classes are designed to take more hits as tanks and tyrrs or else if they die as fast as you there are no more tanking classes and feoh could tank too as anyone else.
You do not hit anyone hard. I mean literally anyone. Daggers have too much defensive skills to be hitted hard, archers also have better defensive skills. You do not hit tanks cause you get killed from reflect.
At sieges feohs are strong, but not rly stronger than archers.
I have reflexes as an exp pro shooter player, and I am a smart player, despite the fact that I am 97 in Chronos there are not more than 5 mages that can beat me in oly and it seems there are no more than 2 Feohs doing better than me in CoC. Yet I get ***** here and there from total randoms in open PvP. Feohs are weak and have been week for awhile. A perfect prove for that is what they get in future updates - 10 sec celle and spammable defensive skill. Obviously the class is not working as intended.
Another thing is ranger totally fks up feohs. And we know that u can count the legit players at NCNA on the fingers of your hands.
So basically playe better does not work. Nor does reroll or quit. I can not see myself playing any other class as they are totally boring. I can fall asleep on my healer being so OP and easy to play.
what can i say, imo coc is not a place to show skills because there are many afkers even as lvl 99 and there are too few that farm it constantly at those strange hours for many euros on our server. same with oly, only a few actually compete because they compete for hero and invest time and money, others might not have the time or not interested in such things. or only to do the quests. i've seen many not even taking mental buff or other stuff, clearly not interested. i've seen many not participating in oly but they are at pvp on field a lot longer than others who compete. im not saying anything about your skills, im sure you do fine but its hard to determine some things in a mmo where others have better or worse pc than you, lower or higher ping, better or worse armor/weapon, some customized their char for solo others for party and so on. you can be probably better than those you cant beat, personally i dont even have an idea who are they, but some other factors decide for you... see where im going with this?
and some things are really broken, the difference between regular mages and.. others is huge. i tried a few times party protect but every time some certain mages saw some strong debuff incoming they go immune... every single time. i can say for sure some mages cannot be ever lifted because they always have incredible super god speed timing on their stone/shirt/racial etc while they dont even have me targeted. on top of that the difference from top gear to mediocre gear is huge.
The fact that there isn't one coming down the pipes means that Korean logic is based on hating mages which is why they decided to square root magic atack in the magic damage formula and why magic weapons have the lowest enchant success rate in the game even though gain the least benefit from overenchanting their weapons because the m attack gets square rooted when calculating damage.
Which only furthers my argument that the classes aren't balanced. What you are saying is that the Koreans intentionally imbalance the classes in order to try forcing people away from the intentionally overnerfed classes and into the intentionally overbuffed classes which if actually successful would only cause the entire population to shift from mostly playing class A to mostly playing class B. And if that doesn't happen it tends to suggest that such intentional imbalances don't have the desired effect and therefore were not only pointless but also derogatory to the players' game experience. So no matter how you look at it the developers are acting irrationally either by creating intentional imbalances that don't have the desired effect or by trying to force their own personal preferences on the players when they already demonstrated that their preferences are not superior or more rationally based than the choices made by the players.
Welcome to Lineage 2, tweaks and balance since 2003.
Yes, we need to avoid fixing the obvious problems with a class because more people would play them if we fixed them. That is amazing logic.
I never said anything about not fixing something that is broken. Your reasoning is broken. I said specifically that doubling their damage is a bit much. L2R.
The fact that there isn't one coming down the pipes means that Korean logic is based on hating mages which is why they decided to square root magic atack in the magic damage formula and why magic weapons have the lowest enchant success rate in the game even though gain the least benefit from overenchanting their weapons because the m attack gets square rooted when calculating damage.
Which only furthers my argument that the classes aren't balanced. What you are saying is that the Koreans intentionally imbalance the classes in order to try forcing people away from the intentionally overnerfed classes and into the intentionally overbuffed classes which if actually successful would only cause the entire population to shift from mostly playing class A to mostly playing class B. And if that doesn't happen it tends to suggest that such intentional imbalances don't have the desired effect and therefore were not only pointless but also derogatory to the players' game experience. So no matter how you look at it the developers are acting irrationally either by creating intentional imbalances that don't have the desired effect or by trying to force their own personal preferences on the players when they already demonstrated that their preferences are not superior or more rationally based than the choices made by the players.
Hardly anyone in Korea plays Tyrr. Nukers and archers are their character of choice based on all the pvp videos i can find which also aligns with our servers as well since most pvp groups have 1 or 2 nukers and 2 or 3 archers.
I personally think the current debuff system is broken and needs to be fixed. Maybe by raising some static damages and lowering the effectiveness of debuffs or by making it harder to cleanse debuffs. Mages should get their old M.Crit damage multiplier back as well. Nukers are getting buffed up a lot in Lindvior anyways... M.Crit damage jewels... more damage... more skills etc etc. Someone will always complain that their character is weak. If you give nukers more damage then you should take away some of their ability to avoid damage as well to make them proper glass cannons.
Welcome to Lineage 2, tweaks and balance since 2003.
its more like welcome to ncsoft games. see aion, the least played classes in korea are the strongest and of course NA players abuse them.
i dont think thats the case, i mean some classes are designed to take more hits as tanks and tyrrs or else if they die as fast as you there are no more tanking classes and feoh could tank too as anyone else.
what can i say, imo coc is not a place to show skills because there are many afkers even as lvl 99 and there are too few that farm it constantly at those strange hours for many euros on our server. same with oly, only a few actually compete because they compete for hero and invest time and money, others might not have the time or not interested in such things. or only to do the quests. i've seen many not even taking mental buff or other stuff, clearly not interested. i've seen many not participating in oly but they are at pvp on field a lot longer than others who compete. im not saying anything about your skills, im sure you do fine but its hard to determine some things in a mmo where others have better or worse pc than you, lower or higher ping, better or worse armor/weapon, some customized their char for solo others for party and so on. you can be probably better than those you cant beat, personally i dont even have an idea who are they, but some other factors decide for you... see where im going with this?
and some things are really broken, the difference between regular mages and.. others is huge. i tried a few times party protect but every time some certain mages saw some strong debuff incoming they go immune... every single time. i can say for sure some mages cannot be ever lifted because they always have incredible super god speed timing on their stone/shirt/racial etc while they dont even have me targeted. on top of that the difference from top gear to mediocre gear is huge.
Well if a class is made to take more hits then it should be made to hit for less. I dont get it how a class with 5 times more hp plus cp does 5 times more dmg.
It is all ranger bro, all of it. The day it is removed will be the day mages will get a good boost. Why I am saying this? Cause the second a mage double blinks I lose him from sight in most cases. A normal person will not keep a target on something he has lost a sight, but will switch to something else, cause he has no clue where his target has gone.
Hardly anyone in Korea plays Tyrr. Nukers and archers are their character of choice based on all the pvp videos i can find which also aligns with our servers as well since most pvp groups have 1 or 2 nukers and 2 or 3 archers.
I personally think the current debuff system is broken and needs to be fixed. Maybe by raising some static damages and lowering the effectiveness of debuffs or by making it harder to cleanse debuffs. Mages should get their old M.Crit damage multiplier back as well. Nukers are getting buffed up a lot in Lindvior anyways... M.Crit damage jewels... more damage... more skills etc etc. Someone will always complain that their character is weak. If you give nukers more damage then you should take away some of their ability to avoid damage as well to make them proper glass cannons.
No nukers are not getting buffed. They are getting nerfed actually. All the rest classes but the healers are made insane and Feohs buffs are the worst. Most of the classes will 1 hit Feohs.
As one who played a quickly made feoh against the archers with blessed +15 r99 bows and +6-7 standard r99 sets. I can personally say that feohs will do fine. Key word: reflexes.