kill a mob and it gives 2.6mil exp the bouns is only 1.3mil exp 1.3mil is 100% only bouns exp... cause it would be same exp and if you had 200% exp you should be getting 2.6mil exp as the bouns!
you might had a point if that was the actual ingame description but it actually is:
"200% bonus XP is applied"
which means, NC doesn't know how to use the word "bonus".
its simple math come on
simple math is this...
1.3mil xp is 100% xp
2.6mil xp is 200% xp
you can argue till you are blue but this is how vitality is working since long time ago, its not 100% plus another 200% is just 200%
yes you can get lower than 100% too with some xp penalty
sure it is,but you need the simple basic xp from the mob first to figure out what you get. You can't scream you won the lottery and have no ticket to prove you won right?
well you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that there is an issue with the xp. Seems fair to me.
simple math is this...
1.3mil xp is 100% xp
2.6mil xp is 200% xp
you can argue till you are blue but this is how vitality is working since long time ago, its not 100% plus another 200% is just 200%
yes you can get lower than 100% too with some xp penalty
^ that, op was thinking you get 100% plus the 200% on top of that. Now if you stack runes that's your gravy train there.
any other little bonus boosts you have to figure in.
Come on guys, the answer has been given to you several times in several different ways.
It has more to do with semanthics rather than maths...
When you apply a factor (called bonus in our case) to "something", you are multiplying "something" by this factor. (BASE x FACTOR). This is what the description of the vitality says.
BASE x 200%
When you increases something by 100% (or 50% or whatever) you are multiplying the BASE by (1+%). In the case of a 50% rune it is:
BASE x (1 + 0.5)
It doesen't matter how do you think VIT and RUNES works, they are working as intended, they are not wrong nor broken.
No, i'm not but let's just pretend I am. This doesn't change the fact that you can't understand simple language. This has nothing to do with math, but a lack of comprehension.
Step 1 - Read the problem three times. Read the problem quickly the first time as a scanning procedure. As you are reading the problem the second time, answer these three questions:
What is the problem asking me? (Usually at the end of the problem)
What is the problem telling me that is useful? (Cross out unneeded information).
What is the problem implying? (Usually something you have been told to remember). Read the problem a third time to check that you fully understand its meaning.
Step 2 - Draw a simple picture of the problem to make it more real to you (e.g., a circle with an arrow can represent travel in any form - by train, by boat, by plane, by car, or by foot).
Step 3 - Make a table of information and leave a blank space for information you are not told.
Step 4 - Use as few unknowns in your table as possible. If you represent all the unknown information in terms of a single letter do so! When using more than one unknown, use a letter that reminds you of that unknown. Then write down what your unknown represents. This eliminates the problem of assigning right answer to the wrong unknown. Remember, you have to create as many separate equations as you have unknowns.
Step 5 - Translate the English terms into an algebraic equation using the list of terms in (Translating English Terms into Algebraic Symbols), and (Translating English Words into Algebraic Expressions). Remember the English terms are sometimes stated in a different order than the algebraic terms.
Step 6 - Immediately retranslate the equation, as you now have it, back into English. The translation will not sound like a normal English phrase, but the meaning should be the same as the original problem. If the meaning is not the same, the equation is incorrect and needs to be rewritten. Rewrite the equation until it means the same as the English phrase.
Step 7 - Review the equation to see fit is similar to equations from your homework and if it makes sense. Some formulas dealing with specific word problems may need to be rewritten. Distance problems, for example, may need to be written solving for each of the other variables in the formula. Distance = Rate x Time; therefore, Time = Distance/Rate, and Rate = Distance/Time. Usually, a distance problem will identify the specific variable to be solved.
Step 8 - Solve the equation using the rules of algebra
Remember: Whatever is done to one side of the equation must be done to the other side of the
equation. The unknown must end up on one side of the equation, by itself. If you have more than one unknown, then use the substitution or elimination method to solve the equations.
Step 9 - Look at your answer to see if it makes common sense.
Example: If tax was added to an item, it should cost more or if a discount was applied to an item it should cost less. Is there more than one answer? Does your answer match the original question? Does your answer, have; the correct units?
Step 10 - Put your answer back into the original equation to see if it is correct If one side of the equation equals the other side of the equation, then you have the correct answer. If you do not have the correct answer, go back to Step 5.
The vitality description is simply that misleading, but it always has been that way and people have accepted it, because they know how it actually works. Just accept it.
Vitality does not ADD 200% to the base xp, it gives you 200% OF the base xp, total. So it is not 1+2*1=3, it is 1*2=2.
In my public speaking class they told us to give our credentials before stating facts to establish credibility. So before you bash my comments and claiming fallacy based on my low math aptitude let me tell you that I graduated Mechanical Engineering Magna *** laude have a 4.0 GPA in my mechanical engineering masters program and have won all of the calculus competitions at my school of 20,000 students.
Now as for the xp boost, the xp rune should provide 200% ADDITIONAL xp, we could argue that they misworded it and they really mean a 200% factor but if thats the case why do they also sell a 100% xp rune, by your logic that rune would provide no xp benefit. Now I am not personally using a rune but I am considering purchasing one and if the 200% bonus factor is indeed not providing 200% ADDITIONAL xp then i will delay my purchase until it is changed. Can anyone confirm if this is indeed the case? Thanks.
In my public speaking class they told us to give our credentials before stating facts to establish credibility. So before you bash my comments and claiming fallacy based on my low math aptitude let me tell you that I graduated Mechanical Engineering Magna *** laude have a 4.0 GPA in my mechanical engineering masters program and have won all of the calculus competitions at my school of 20,000 students.
Now as for the xp boost, the xp rune should provide 200% ADDITIONAL xp, we could argue that they misworded it and they really mean a 200% factor but if thats the case why do they also sell a 100% xp rune, by your logic that rune would provide no xp benefit. Now I am not personally using a rune but I am considering purchasing one and if the 200% bonus factor is indeed not providing 200% ADDITIONAL xp then i will delay my purchase until it is changed. Can anyone confirm if this is indeed the case? Thanks.
XP Runes adds aditional %xp. 50% rune gives x1.5, 200% rune gives x3.0 of the base exp.
Vita applies a 200% factor to the base xp.
So a 200%Vita and a 100% Rune gives the same increase in xp.
First, take a character -- preferably a high level character that won't level quickly -- at full Vitality (and no other XP bonuses, mentor/mentee, or otherwise) and go and kill a mob. No over-hit, please. After you kill it, write down the amount of XP that you received. Screenshot it, if you don't trust your own handwriting.
Then completely burn through all of your Vitality bar to zero and go back and kill that same mob. (I know it's possible for a level 87 to burn through full vitality in about an hour or so hunting in BS, so don't tell me that it can't be done quickly.) After you kill the mob, write down (or screeshot) the amount of XP that you received. Notice anything different?
It's not a revelation to anyone here, but it will be a revelation to you that, yes, mobs do give you XP when you have zero vitality. Once that sinks in, percolates, then I think the rest will make sense to you.
As someone said before there is definitely some marketing spin that goes into selling the runes, but at the end of the day, the math adds up. If it truly doesn't, then I would submit a ticket. No one is going to give you anything just because you come to the forums and make a big stink about it.
First, take a character -- preferably a high level character that won't level quickly -- at full Vitality (and no other XP bonuses, mentor/mentee, or otherwise) and go and kill a mob. No over-hit, please. After you kill it, write down the amount of XP that you received. Screenshot it, if you don't trust your own handwriting.
Then completely burn through all of your Vitality bar to zero and go back and kill that same mob. (I know it's possible for a level 87 to burn through full vitality in about an hour or so hunting in BS, so don't tell me that it can't be done quickly.) After you kill the mob, write down (or screeshot) the amount of XP that you received. Notice anything different?
It's not a revelation to anyone here, but it will be a revelation to you that, yes, mobs do give you XP when you have zero vitality. Once that sinks in, percolates, then I think the rest will make sense to you.
As someone said before there is definitely some marketing spin that goes into selling the runes, but at the end of the day, the math adds up. If it truly doesn't, then I would submit a ticket. No one is going to give you anything just because you come to the forums and make a big stink about it.
tested it in game and its broken. confirmed broken. and no one does anything about it! WE WANT OUR EXP BACK!
0% of 1.3 is 1.3*0%/100%=0.0
100% of 1.3 is 1.3*100%/100%=1.3
200% of 1.3 is 1.3*200%/100%=2.6
0% bonus is 1.3*(1+0%/100%)=1.3
100% bonus is 1.3*(1+100%/100%)=2.6
200% bonus is 1.3*(1+200%/100%)=3.9
The problem here is that the vitality description doesn't say "Provides 200% of XP", it says "200% bonus XP is applied".
Bonus means in addition to or on top of, that is why a 0% bonus is the base number and not 100%. a 100% bonus is 100% of the base number in addition to the base number (ex: where the base number is 1, a 100% bonus is 1+1 or 2), Thus a 200% bonus is 200% on top of the base number.
Thus this isn't a case of marketing double speak (ex: "Downsized" instead of "Fired"). This is flat out lying.
They may have actually intended to say "Provides 200% of XP" instead of "Provides 200% bonus XP". The problem is that they wrote the latter and not the former. The quick fix is to change the "bonus" into "of". The word choice completely changes the meaning of the phrase.
I seriously can't believe we are having this argument again. This has been explained so many times.
Explained? They explained that the message being displayed is a typo? Because that is the only explanation NC can give without lying as I already detailed above. But I guess you never bothered reading what I posted. So I will just copy the most crucial piece of it.
They may have actually intended to say "Provides 200% of XP" instead of "Provides 200% bonus XP". The problem is that they wrote the latter and not the former. The quick fix is to change the "bonus" into "of". The word choice completely changes the meaning of the phrase.
If we want to start a dictionary war to determine what bonus usually means we have:
BONUS
: something in addition to what is expected or strictly due: as
a: money or an equivalent given in addition to an employee's usual compensation
b: a premium (as of stock) given by a corporation to a purchaser of its securities, to a promoter, or to an employee
c: a government payment to war veterans
d: a sum in excess of salary given an athlete for signing with a team
BONUS
1. Additional compensation given to an employee above his/her normal wage. A bonus can be used as a reward for achieving specific goals set by the company, or for dedication to the company.
2. Dividends paid to shareholders from funds created out of additional profits realized by the company.
3. A premium paid for accepting an agreement. Sometimes referred to as a "signing bonus".
4. Anything over and above what is expected.
BONUS
1. something given or paid over and above what is due.
2. a sum of money granted or given to an employee, a returned soldier, etc., in addition toregular pay, usually in appreciation for work done, length of service, accumulated favors, etc.
3. something free, as an extra dividend, given by a corporation to a purchaser of its securities.
4. a premium paid for a loan, contract, etc.
5. something extra or additional given freely: Every purchaser of a pound of coffee received a box of cookies as a bonus.
BONUS
an amount of money added to wages on a seasonal basis, especially as a reward for good performance: ex: big Christmas bonuses
• something welcome and often unexpected that accompanies and enhances something that is itself good:good weather is an added bonus but the real appeal is the landscape
•Basketball: an extra free throw awarded to a fouled player when the opposing team has exceeded the number of team fouls allowed during a period.
•British: an extra dividend or issue paid to the shareholders of a company.
•British: a distribution of profits to holders of an insurance policy.
As you can see bonus always means in addition to. So "200% bonus XP is being applied" means 200% of XP in addition to 100% of normal XP, ie 300% of normal XP. NC's interpretation of their own phrasing where they take bonus to mean "of" is clearly in error because that is not what bonus means nor can be interpreted to mean.
NC could argue that their interpretation of "bonus" is valid based on how bonus is used in product packaging. In product packaging, when the normal amount of product that will be in the box under that SKU going forward has been reduced but the company doesn't want to alarm or disenfranchise consumers who are used to seeing the old box or may have the old box on a shelf at home for comparison and will continue to ship the product in the old sized box with new labeling saying that you get whatever the difference is between the old and new amounts as a "bonus". However in that instance if they didn't give you a bonus amount, you'd just get the new reduced amount. Obviously we know that in reality you aren't getting anything extra because the company cannot actually be thought of as willfully reducing the product amount when it sells you the same amount of product in the same box, but they are allowed to legally use this deceptive practice. Unfortunately this probably isn't completely applicable to what NC is doing with Vitality but you could structure an argument to show that it is.
Yeah, whatever. Just deal with it, the text can be misleading at the most. But the intended effect is to apply a factor to the base XP. All you can achieve is that they change the VIT description to whatever you want, but won't affect the actual VIT effect.
Do you know what the base xp is for the mobs you are killing? You take that number and watch it when you pop a rune, it'll double.
Do you have any vitality? It's the green bar by your HP/MP. If that's gone that's why.
Do you have a mentor or have mentees? Blessing of light buff on? All these things factor into what you get as a bonus.
ETA: If you have a mentor remember that the bonus now is reduced to 50%. It used to be 200%
100% should mathematically double the base xp, 200% triple so the wording should be changed for the current 200% on the VP as the vp itself makes the gained (total) xp two times that of the base xp.
to further examplify this, if you were to go kill a random mob with no vitality boost other than the vp, you would see that the bonus value is exactly half of the total value, meaning the value of the xp you received has been doubled and not tripled as a 200% should
50% mentor buff on the other hand seems to be doing its job correctly, as i see the bonus value is 1/3 of the total value, meaning i'm getting a boost of 1/2 of the base value of the gained experience
end note: please understand what the poster is trying to say before going on to flame it, there is a flaw in the wording and the value of what ncsoft has implemented and should be considered to be fixed. the problem could have been solved if they had resorted to a much simpler way to wording the boost as : 2X, 3X 1/2X etc
100% should mathematically double the base xp, 200% triple so the wording should be changed for the current 200% on the VP as the vp itself makes the gained (total) xp two times that of the base xp.
to further examplify this, if you were to go kill a random mob with no vitality boost other than the vp, you would see that the bonus value is exactly half of the total value, meaning the value of the xp you received has been doubled and not tripled as a 200% should
50% mentor buff on the other hand seems to be doing its job correctly, as i see the bonus value is 1/3 of the total value, meaning i'm getting a boost of 1/2 of the base value of the gained experience
end note: please understand what the poster is trying to say before going on to flame it, there is a flaw in the wording and the value of what ncsoft has implemented and should be considered to be fixed. the problem could have been solved if they had resorted to a much simpler way to wording the boost as : 2X, 3X 1/2X etc
Come on...
A 100% increase doubles the base number. A 100% factor just multiply the base number by 1 and has no real effect.
A 200% increase triples the base number. A 200% factor just doubles the base number.
Those statements are fairly clear by almost everyone. What you dont realize is that the intended effect of VIT is the second case (and the runes the first).
So please of you want some change, ask for a better translation not a change of hoy VIT works.
0% of 1.3 is 1.3*0%/100%=0.0
100% of 1.3 is 1.3*100%/100%=1.3
200% of 1.3 is 1.3*200%/100%=2.6
0% bonus is 1.3*(1+0%/100%)=1.3
100% bonus is 1.3*(1+100%/100%)=2.6
200% bonus is 1.3*(1+200%/100%)=3.9
The problem here is that the vitality description doesn't say "Provides 200% of XP", it says "200% bonus XP is applied".
Bonus means in addition to or on top of, that is why a 0% bonus is the base number and not 100%. a 100% bonus is 100% of the base number in addition to the base number (ex: where the base number is 1, a 100% bonus is 1+1 or 2), Thus a 200% bonus is 200% on top of the base number.
Thus this isn't a case of marketing double speak (ex: "Downsized" instead of "Fired"). This is flat out lying.
They may have actually intended to say "Provides 200% of XP" instead of "Provides 200% bonus XP". The problem is that they wrote the latter and not the former. The quick fix is to change the "bonus" into "of". The word choice completely changes the meaning of the phrase.
I've major in analytics and statistics and I work with numbers everyday and this is indeed a mathematical proof that the description is wrong and misleading.
Even tho I know and accept the fact how vitality works, but I think they should change the wording of this particular description as it's wrong and mislead players.
Before you continue playing devils advocate on NCsoft's part even though it's been mathematically proven by Ellisande that description is wrong, explain the fact why 100% XP bonus rune gives exactly same effect as 200% bonus XP vit.
But it's an easy fix as NCsoft just have to change word ''bonus'' to a word ''of'' in the description.
I've major in analytics and statistics and I work with numbers everyday and this is indeed a mathematical proof that the description is wrong and misleading.
Even tho I know and accept the fact how vitality works, but I think they should change the wording of this particular description as it's wrong and mislead players.
Before you continue playing devils advocate on NCsoft's part even though it's been mathematically proven by Ellisande that description is wrong, explain the fact why 100% XP bonus rune gives exactly same effect as 200% bonus XP vit.
But it's an easy fix as NCsoft just have to change word ''bonus'' to a word ''of'' in the description.
Wouldn't this technically be false advertisement? One of the wordings is wrong and they are selling something that actually isn't true.
I've major in analytics and statistics and I work with numbers everyday and this is indeed a mathematical proof that the description is wrong and misleading.
Even tho I know and accept the fact how vitality works, but I think they should change the wording of this particular description as it's wrong and mislead players.
Before you continue playing devils advocate on NCsoft's part even though it's been mathematically proven by Ellisande that description is wrong, explain the fact why 100% XP bonus rune gives exactly same effect as 200% bonus XP vit.
But it's an easy fix as NCsoft just have to change word ''bonus'' to a word ''of'' in the description.
Agreed, and given that they are selling this product in an extremely litigious American market, they should change the description fast before someone sues them. :D
One of the biggest problem with any argument someone could make on NC's behalf is that NC clearly understands what bonus means as they have used it in other places correctly (ie the XP bonus runes and mentor/mentee XP buff).
regardless of the wording it's not bugged. It's been explained how it works and it IS working as intended.
The confusion has been explained.
Please provide this "explanation."
I have a feeling you are going to quickly find out that NC's "explanation" is nothing more than a lie unless this "explanation" is simply that there was a typo which NC was already made aware of but didn't bother to fix. That however is rather ****ing if they are in fact selling a product under the inducement that vitality will provide a 200% bonus ot the amount of XP you earn which you will get if you use this product. The fix afterall is very easy, could be made cheaply and should have been made when it was brought to NC's attention as this clearly was intended to induce sales.
In conjunction with the coulda/woulda/shoulda from above, the only reason we can conclude that NCSoft hasn't changed the wording, which is clearly in error, capable of being easily and cheaply corrected, that NCSoft has been aware of for quite some time, is because NCsoft is intentionally lying in order to induce the purchase of vitality items by people who were lead to honestly believe that they will acquire a 200% bonus to the amount of XP they earn if they purchase vitality items from the store.
I have a feeling you are going to quickly find out that NC's "explanation" is nothing more than a lie unless this "explanation" is simply that there was a typo which NC was already made aware of but didn't bother to fix. That however is rather ****ing if they are in fact selling a product under the inducement that vitality will provide a 200% bonus ot the amount of XP you earn which you will get if you use this product. The fix afterall is very easy, could be made cheaply and should have been made when it was brought to NC's attention as this clearly was intended to induce sales.
In conjunction with the coulda/woulda/shoulda from above, the only reason we can conclude that NCSoft hasn't changed the wording, which is clearly in error, capable of being easily and cheaply corrected, that NCSoft has been aware of for quite some time, is because NCsoft is intentionally lying in order to induce the purchase of vitality items by people who were lead to honestly believe that they will acquire a 200% bonus to the amount of XP they earn if they purchase vitality items from the store.
Your honor, I rest my case.
This is getting really annoying. If you and others have had taken 1/10 of the time spent here trying to look for some info...
I have already posted this in one of the many "broken vit, pls fix" posts.
If you look into the GoD patch notes you will find this: "The four Vitality stages no longer exist. Now, when a character has any Vitality at all, that character's XP gain is 200%. Raid monsters no longer award Vitality. Vitality herbs have been removed from the game"
That's not even misleading at all. Vit just apply a 2x factor to base XP. I didnt even need a nasa level math to find or understand this info. And thats what we are trying to make you do here.. to understand, that VIT is working as intended and the ingame description can be, at most, misleading.
So NCSoft is not lying at all as you claim. They sells revita fills/mantain potions that do exactly what they are supposed to do.
Im sure some will say that is NCSoft fault of their lack of searching skills. Of course is always easier to blame others.
Pd: AFAIK they only use "bonus" in the vit description. They dont use it in runes at all, but I dont know the case of mentor/mentee buffs