So, I was doing some theory on pvp and I was thinking about roles..
As I see, basic roles are:
Healer
Tank
Buffer
Debuffer
Damage Dealer (DD)
Main Assist (MA)
This roles can be divided too:
Healer
- Main heal (aeore)
- Support Heal (iss/paladin)
- Ress (ress skill, any char with scroll ress, etc.)
Tank
- Agroer (sigel)
- Durable (like tyrr or some wynn/healers that stay in front of others to take hits)
Buffer
- Main buffs (iss)
- Temp buffs (like pt defense from tank, or pt celestial from aeore)
Debuffer
- Disable
- Take damage (disable that allows target to get damage, like stun)
- Don't take damage (disable that target doesn't take damage, like exile from wynn)
- Weaken (crippling from ISS, devil's curse from feoh, bullseye from yul..)
Damage Dealer
- Constant damage (wynn with pets + marks, tyrrs with normal hits, feohs using skills that give 3k-8k,..)
- Burst damage or gankers (rly high DPS for small time, like double cast, counter critical from drum melody on othell, mind's eye + br on yul)
- Casual damage (like damage from tank/iss.. it's not much <1k, 2k aoe damage>, but it keeps stacking up with other sources)
Main Assist
- High DPS MA (used to take out chars fast, like a feoh that has just activated double cast, or someone that died and is just getting up, without nobles)
- Constant DPS MA (used mostly to stay on healers or key targets.. )
There must be other variations, like initiator (tank is 99% of the times the one that initiates the pvp, agroing + hitting all) or escape (a feoh that hits a little than run with 2 teleports + wind.. or othell with hide that removes debuff).. But I feel that these are not main functions..
And I think that's one of the reasons why bots on pvp are living hell.. If someone understand these roles (like only give disable that target can't receive damage on DD and disable that target can receive damage on support) and config it well, the humans that are playing against this party needs all to understand this well and react at amazing speed..
So, I was doing some theory on pvp and I was thinking about roles..
As I see, basic roles are:
Healer
Tank
Buffer
Debuffer
Damage Dealer (DD)
Main Assist (MA)
This roles can be divided too:
Healer
- Main heal (aeore)
- Support Heal (iss/paladin)
- Ress (ress skill, any char with scroll ress, etc.)
Tank
- Agroer (sigel)
- Durable (like tyrr or some wynn/healers that stay in front of others to take hits)
Buffer
- Main buffs (iss)
- Temp buffs (like pt defense from tank, or pt celestial from aeore)
Debuffer
- Disable
- Take damage (disable that allows target to get damage, like stun)
- Don't take damage (disable that target doesn't take damage, like exile from wynn)
- Weaken (crippling from ISS, devil's curse from feoh, bullseye from yul..)
Damage Dealer
- Constant damage (wynn with pets + marks, tyrrs with normal hits, feohs using skills that give 3k-8k,..)
- Burst damage or gankers (rly high DPS for small time, like double cast, counter critical from drum melody on othell, mind's eye + br on yul)
- Casual damage (like damage from tank/iss.. it's not much <1k, 2k aoe damage>, but it keeps stacking up with other sources)
Main Assist
- High DPS MA (used to take out chars fast, like a feoh that has just activated double cast, or someone that died and is just getting up, without nobles)
- Constant DPS MA (used mostly to stay on healers or key targets.. )
There must be other variations, like initiator (tank is 99% of the times the one that initiates the pvp, agroing + hitting all) or escape (a feoh that hits a little than run with 2 teleports + wind.. or othell with hide that removes debuff).. But I feel that these are not main functions..
And I think that's one of the reasons why bots on pvp are living hell.. If someone understand these roles (like only give disable that target can't receive damage on DD and disable that target can receive damage on support) and config it well, the humans that are playing against this party needs all to understand this well and react at amazing speed..
Oh haters.. don't bother to post since this post wasn't for you, dear forum players..
But if it pleases you all this trash talk, can't imagine who you are.
About this post, just some thinking of the various roles a char can assume in pvp, like a healer using heals and ress.. and after some debuffs to weaken or even disable (sleep) and finally to nuke, if all the previous areas are covered..
Oh haters.. don't bother to post since this post wasn't for you, dear forum players..
But if it pleases you all this trash talk, can't imagine who you are.
About this post, just some thinking of the various roles a char can assume in pvp, like a healer using heals and ress.. and after some debuffs to weaken or even disable (sleep) and finally to nuke, if all the previous areas are covered..
Imo, this is why too many parties tend to fail, not only in the pvp aspect, but in general talking - ppl trying to avoid their class roles and attempting to do something totally contrary or different. Why the hell a healer would need to "nuke" during party pvp, if its main role there should be healing? Just think how many nukes skills a healer has (no more than 4, from what, only 2 really usable in pvp) in comparison with how many healing/aiding/supportive skills he also has. A lot.
In the same way, I've meet nukers trying to tank, tankers trying to be DD and dont giving the necessary care to their main role - tank!; isses trying to be main healers and so on. Typical of disfunctional parties.
obs.: Note I wont say its impossible to play differentes roles other than the main designated for your class - like a healer being able to nuke someone to death, while healing properly - but to do that in an "average" competency, 1) you must be far high level than your enemies you r facing at the moment; 2) you must have a full knowledge about your class and all its possibilities as well its weakness and 3) the party must be in a high level of synchronism, what we only see in longstanding CP's, actually. If you dont have this, its near to impossible to perform what you propose. ;)
Sleep doesnt land in pvp. And for a healer to nuke, it means the enemy party is alrdy dominated to begin with.
I'd like to underline this. The Crowd Control role for a healer in PvP doesn't exist at all. It's for summoners with their exiles.
Imo, this is why too many parties tend to fail, not only in the pvp aspect, but in general talking - ppl trying to avoid their class roles and attempting to do something totally contrary or different. Why the hell a healer would need to "nuke" during party pvp, if its main role there should be healing? Just think how many nukes skills a healer has (no more than 4, from what, only 2 really usable in pvp) in comparison with how many healing/aiding/supportive skills he also has. A lot.
In the same way, I've meet nukers trying to tank, tankers trying to be DD and dont giving the necessary care to their main role - tank!; isses trying to be main healers and so on. Typical of disfunctional parties.
obs.: Note I wont say its impossible to play differentes roles other than the main designated for your class - like a healer being able to nuke someone to death, while healing properly - but to do that in an "average" competency, 1) you must be far high level than your enemies you r facing at the moment; 2) you must have a full knowledge about your class and all its possibilities as well its weakness and 3) the party must be in a high level of synchronism, what we only see in longstanding CP's, actually. If you dont have this, its near to impossible to perform what you propose. ;)
That's my point.
I've been with a CP for more than 3 years (3 members changed, tho), and I realized that if I debuffed (mark of lumi, dark devour..) while healing, we killed the enemy pt way faster. But if I tried to debuff a lot and negleted healing, my pt died. So I had to 1st heal, and if I got a break (like 1 of their DD is dead, or I got invul/racial/giant favor/etc..), I'd debuff the target on our MA and we'd win way faster. And if I didn't need to do healing and target was already debuffed (like their DDs are dead, and healers are trying to run/wait for cd on ress), I could nuke them to kill faster.
And after talking with the iss on our pt, we realized that if ISS only gave buffs + heals, we died to others pts that ISS did buffs, heals and debuffs. But if ISS kept using debuffs trying to help DDs and forget buffs (sonatas mostly) and heal, our pt would die even faster.
Same with tanks.. They are there mostly to keep pt alive (1st priority), but if they are already locking main DD (like an archer), they can assist MA to stun/paralize healer, for exemple. And if they got that too, they can try to do some damage too with aoe skill and other skills. But if they try to stay as DD and kill all without tanking (and so, not doing his 1st priority), the pt would suffer a lot.
Since this post has a lot of theory, ppl might get bothered a little, but after some time doing pvp, I think these things are important if you try to be more serious on pvp.
people on forums talking about pvp omg... it hurts.
where do you usually talk about it,then? in ingame fields? I'd believe it unless you r used to pvp with whispers and trashtalk, but again, usually aint nobody got time for dat.
where do you usually talk about it,then? in ingame fields? I'd believe it unless you r used to pvp with whispers and trashtalk, but again, usually aint nobody got time for dat.
unless people are dishing and drinking tea on your "brain", yet you cant talk there; instead, you can think about the matter, but w/e... this thread is born too metaphorical as your attempt to troll. :o
My signature is my answer =D
i agree with you ... definitely
And i think it's not so hard debuff target for healer. Macro can help, trust me. But nuke with healer in pvp ... depends on party with which you fight.
I only have a few things to say on this...1st off i have seen some ppl saying ( know your roles )...this is so true, so many ppl i know have a "GoD" complexs ( like tyrrs and daggers ) and they run off to kill their own targets instead of sticking to the MA and then they run out of mana yelling at me to recharge them when there is no need to recharge them if they stuck to same target as everyone else ( whether it be PVP or PVE ). I for one am slowly teaching the ppl in my clan the "proper' and most importantly "efficient" way to kill...and it sure not by running off killing mobs solo or spamming skills. I will NOT recharge you if you are a heavy mana user and dont do what your job requires. I also will not rez these ppl with a BREZ ( or even my 95% rez ) until they learn their roles. The "KEY" element here is to FOLLOW the Tank, asssit the MA and quit spamming skills and drainging mana. As a healer my 1st priority is to HEAL the party, then debuff the mobs and then and only then if i have time...recharge, Recharging is NOT neccesary if everyone is doing what they are suppose to be doing. A good healer is a Busy healer and compared to other classes, harder to play ( not for me but new healers will go crazy when they realize what their role is ). Point is PPl...learn your class and your role, do NOT faulter from that role and parties will stay alive longer and kill alot more efficiently
And i think it's not so hard debuff target for healer. Macro can help, trust me. But nuke with healer in pvp ... depends on party with which you fight.
Well, if you give same priority to healing and debuffing, your pt will most likely die fast when other group uses BR or some other skill that makes the DD do way more damage than usual.
But if you did follow the priorities in the roles, you'd only start debuffing when the healing area was covered (everyone close to full HP).. Ofc to know when the enemy's pt is more or less dangerous is a hard work that deppends on a lot of things, from cd to the way some pts work together.
And Punky, you are right, I forgot about the role of recharging..