Would all of its systems(material/spoil/drops/crafting/PK) be attractive to be used and be able to give to players what is needed to evolve the way it is on Lindvior?
Would it keep players interessed to keep playing?
Would L2 store, as it is, ruin the game again?
Would it be fun?
I suggest Juji and whatever crew he got, to try playing it in a test server.
Maybe there you can find awnsers for the problems we got today.
Im not suggesting a wipe, just trying to show the game got over ****** hard with terrible decisions mostly to please casuals/carebears and that it cant be self sufficient as it is now.
IMO, it would suck, be extreme boring and would never get a healthy economy going on.
Im not suggesting a wipe, just trying to show the game got over ****** hard with terrible decisions mostly to please casuals/carebears and that it cant be self sufficient as it is now.
As a longtime user, u should already know the answer ...
Wipe never was and never will be the best solution.
In fact the creation of new servers and then merging them comes postponing their duration.
I think people would adapt. There was no previous knowledge of finding recipes and parts and full drops in Chronicles, too. Hardcore gamers would stay hardcore, servers would be plagued by bots just like any new server start, and it would be fun watching new clans forming and sieging with C grade weapons :)
As a longtime user, u should already know the answer ...
Wipe never was and never will be the best solution.
In fact the creation of new servers and then merging them comes postponing their duration.
You're missing his point. He's not advocating for a wipe. He's asking if the drop rates and other features could support starting from scratch. You could rephrase it like this: "If you opened a new server today, would people be able to supply themselves adequately from 1-99?"
The answer is no, as the adena and drop rate is so low that people would be 85+ and stuck in A grade for some time. At 99, some if not most would still be unable to have level appropriate gear, skill OE, etc.
You're missing his point. He's not advocating for a wipe. He's asking if the drop rates and other features could support starting from scratch. You could rephrase it like this: "If you opened a new server today, would people be able to supply themselves adequately from 1-99?"
The answer is no, as the adena and drop rate is so low that people would be 85+ and stuck in A grade for some time. At 99, some if not most would still be unable to have level appropriate gear, skill OE, etc.
+1
Developers went overboard with the reduction in material drops. In their effort to "maintain the current value of items" they completely omitted the "return to crafting system as the main source of supply for items" (quoted parts are from developer's statements). I have serious doubts if any substantial amount of items are crafted nowdays.
Adena drops are a different issue but developers went overboard here as well. As another poster wrote, I did notice that there are 95 solo areas that drop half the adena some 60+ areas do. I fail to see any logic there. This forced deflation causes more problems than it solves.
As usually NC Soft is overcompensating. They are always too slow to react on problems and when they do, they rush in with an axe instead of walking in with a scalpel.
You're missing his point. He's not advocating for a wipe. He's asking if the drop rates and other features could support starting from scratch. You could rephrase it like this: "If you opened a new server today, would people be able to supply themselves adequately from 1-99?"
The answer is no, as the adena and drop rate is so low that people would be 85+ and stuck in A grade for some time. At 99, some if not most would still be unable to have level appropriate gear, skill OE, etc.
Well using the path of awakening plus the quests its not impossible to get 85 but you will have to decide whether you want adenas o golden coins to try to equipo yourserf for the dual class.
I made a new char from scratch and I made less than 3kk and its lvl 77. The only drop I got to sell was C armor parts, I didnt got nothing B or A or S to make adena from.
I make clear that I didnt make adena quests but if you dont quest your self then you wont get adena in my opinion.
BB
the answer is no, and the main reason is due to the fact that a lot of people have dumped a lot of RL money into nc coin for a specific item/product. these are also the people who help keep the servers afloat as the random who spends 25 dollars every 3 months is not what keeps this game running. removing everything and starting from scratch would make those people quit, and the sole source of income would most likely be gone.
if you are asking if a new server would be popular, shillen is a perfect example of how that idea fails.
i can tell u for sure, l2 start to earn my respect again.
the worst thing already happend, ALL THE BR TRASH NOOBS AND OTHERS WORLD TRASH NOOBS GOT THEIR "EASY GEAR", now i hope that nc never go back on this way.
IF U WANT IT U HAVE TO BLEED TO EARN IT.
ps: nc have to decrease the number of bots to the number the servers had before the free trully joke, when this happens we ll play the good l2 for real.
You're missing his point. He's not advocating for a wipe. He's asking if the drop rates and other features could support starting from scratch. You could rephrase it like this: "If you opened a new server today, would people be able to supply themselves adequately from 1-99?"
The answer is no, as the adena and drop rate is so low that people would be 85+ and stuck in A grade for some time. At 99, some if not most would still be unable to have level appropriate gear, skill OE, etc.
Okay well look at it like this. Play on Magmeld or Shilen servers. There's no back log of S80 and below unbound,OE'd,elemented,SA'd weapons there or armors. This essentially is like playing a wiped server. Those servers were created just after F2P when the PtA was exploding with crap. So there was no need to create items until you wanted twilight or better. Most of the stuff you find there is from people who transferred or put some work into a drop.
I'd say it's rather annoying when you want some gear for a sub or an alt and you can't manage a complete vorpal heavy set.
Okay well look at it like this. Play on Magmeld or Shilen servers. There's no back log of S80 and below unbound,OE'd,elemented,SA'd weapons there or armors. This essentially is like playing a wiped server. Those servers were created just after F2P when the PtA was exploding with crap. So there was no need to create items until you wanted twilight or better. Most of the stuff you find there is from people who transferred or put some work into a drop.
I'd say it's rather annoying when you want some gear for a sub or an alt and you can't manage a complete vorpal heavy set.
Yeah guys, keep dreaming about such a thing ;) NCSoft will NEVER do such a thing as a wipe , srsly? All the players from SH/DH with ++++ weapons and even randoms with ++++++ weapons who spent loooots of moneys for make their equip will emo-rage-kill themselfs in real life (and i'd like that , but they're gonna do so anyway , sooner or later :D) so it wont happen :)
About the "1-99" , no , actually i guess is impossible , i'm lvl 99 , i do instances as Epic-Baylor-Istina-Octavis , and they drop nothing. Epic no drops or just elcyum , baylor elcyum and crystals , istina unbind armor or bear (if you're lucky , unbind) , octavis bewr and unbind weapon , and you've to share 200kk drops with 14 players , so ^^
Was ok to change the drop rate , but they TOTALY messed it up...now raids doesn't drop any longer , parnassus is ALL DAY free now , noone farm CC anymore ('cause CC now drops eternal RECIPES , even with golem's stage) and in Naia even in POD appeared a full pt of bots (2 pts atm) , things are getting worst and worst :p they're trying to bring back the OLD l2...but they're doing it wrong :D
In fact, the idea of the wipe is inconceivable. Unlike NCWest Staff has always been recurring in creating new servers ... and they would not be hard to decide to prohibit the legendary veteran players from the servers to make a probable future transfer to such "new" servers.
real l2 ftw.
You should rephrase, saying, for real players l2, who came from the prelude or whatever it is, spending their measly months or years to have something decent (in a more dignified by the way compared to the days of today), and that somehow no longer playing in this period of darkness in protest (say between GOD and GloryDays), from a practical and personalized as is (with the PTA, with Runes, etc.) and now with the expansion Lindvior decided to return with the hope of returning, as should be the L2, then I say so, these are the real players in the L2.
Well how else are they going to generate income to keep the servers running? There's no monthly fee, no charge to downloaded the game so how else do you think that they will make money? They aren't in the business of giving handouts for ***** n gigglez.
In fact, the idea of the wipe is inconceivable. Unlike NCWest Staff has always been recurring in creating new servers ... and they would not be hard to decide to prohibit the legendary veteran players from the servers to make a probable future transfer to such "new" servers.
You should rephrase, saying, for real players l2, who came from the prelude or whatever it is, spending their measly months or years to have something decent (in a more dignified by the way compared to the days of today), and that somehow no longer playing in this period of darkness in protest (say between GOD and GloryDays), from a practical and personalized as is (with the PTA, with Runes, etc.) and now with the expansion Lindvior decided to return with the hope of returning, as should be the L2, then I say so, these are the real players in the L2.
In fact, everything is for the $_$ Company.
You decide who are the real players of L2? If not you, who? I want to ask him if I am a real player or not :D
I dont think everythink is for the $_$ of the company, but is what determines whether the company keeps running or not.
The wipe is the worst thing that can happen to any old server. years and years of economy wiped for one day will just destroy even the hardcore masochists like me who still play the game the fair way. Just imagine the scenario:
Day 1:
1st hour after the server start in Wendesday - Talking Island so full ppl you can even move to the GK, let alone do the quests you're supposed to. Everybody is lvl 1, and doing the same thing. Of course, cos it's a wipe, many ppl will have the false illusions that, they'll have a better chance against their old enemies and will try to get back in the game and the server, so 10 times the ppl try to log in. 2 hours later the server crashes. Everybody's so frustrated, the topics in the forum spawn like mushrooms after rain. GMs' thingers heart of fractions and week bans.
Day 2:
The ppl with less nerves have already given up, so after just 30 mins of trying you can log in. Now you can move around Talking Island and talk to the NPCs, but when you reach a hunting spot for the quest 40ppl are zerging over 1 mob.
Day 10:
Finally after long 10 days you get the 2nd class change. In the meantime, the players who usually bot their way in the game are already reaching lvl 95.
Day 20:
Somehow, even unknown to science, you manage to awake to the 4th class. GZ!!! Thx to the bot's who are already close to lvl 98, the price for the Immortal Light Gloves is 135kk. TW is only for the ppl with "connections" and/or RMT. Seraph is a mythical Armor, and Ethernal exsists only in l2wiki's database.
Somewhere around day 60:
You are now 95; you still wear Vorpal Light armor along with Immortal Gloves and a lucky TW Helmet. And because you wanted to do some real progress in game, you played 12-15h a day, so you're now unemployed and with money only for the electricity bill.
The last few lines were a joke obviously, but the rest is the usual scenario. You jsut need to look back at the start of the Bartz or Magmeld. When on Naia an avarage immortal set did cost ~100kk to gather, on barts only the Light boots were 65kk. Wipe is never the answer, it's just the shortcut to make the RMTs and bots even richer.
Well how else are they going to generate income to keep the servers running? There's no monthly fee, no charge to downloaded the game so how else do you think that they will make money? They aren't in the business of giving handouts for ***** n gigglez.
Exactly this.
As a good geek on this forum, it is sad to know that you are outdated in matters of company revenues on this year 2013. In other words, communication becomes difficult when the person goes on lay.
Well how else are they going to generate income to keep the servers running?
Honestly I do not have that answer, but look how many new servers lately has emerged in the last 18 months ... :rolleyes::rolleyes: ... that it would be attractive to have some "fresh" server just to put a smirk on those who QQ for a server wipe.
Lately there topics and more topics about Anti BOT System ... not much to comment on here, however, lack of interest in implementing one? lack of money?
And purpose, distribution of free ncoins :eek: and finally a great sponsor by http://www.mmorpg.com/
Long life huh. :cool:
My outrage is that, in all this time, I have seen pass the expansions of the game, I've seen many passing events, as also seen spending many ninja patches ... But I do not see the productivity of Staff concerning the quality of the game rather than the abuse of players. While they profit if accomodating.
Honestly I do not have that answer, but look how many new servers lately has emerged in the last 18 months ... :rolleyes::rolleyes: ... that it would be attractive to have some "fresh" server just to put a smirk on those who QQ for a server wipe.
Running servers has some expenses. You certainly don't expect that they would open a 6th server, when THREE of the existing ones don't even reach full capacity?
The word "wipe" is a bit misleading. Maybe we should rephrase the question: "Is the in-game economy as of Lindvior self-sufficient?"
The answer is no. The in-game economy is designed with the Korean situation in mind, where part of the players' game time points get automatically converted into NCoins when they play in internet cafes (the "PC"in our "Player Commendation Points" stands originally for "PCcafe Points"). Since they get those NCoins anyway - there is no way to disable the conversion - they might as well buy shots for them: http://nshop.plaync.com/pointshop/goods/list?categoryPath=1&gameId=32
So that's an operating expense Koreans don't have.
The main problem with the crafting system in Lindvior is that you need a lvl 85 Maestro to craft the mats for B-Grade equipment. Without the cheating that the Path to Awakening ultimately is, it would take a really really long time for any Dwarf to reach lvl 85 without shots and relying for his equipment on full drops. The Path to Awakening is basically like the Soviet Union giving economic aid to North Korea, without which the country is reduced to a North Asian climate with one harvest per year.
Theoretically this would not be a problem - there is no reason why everybody should reach R-Grade within 5 years. But unfortunately the developers have step by step upgraded ever more low-level hunting grounds: Beast Farm, Giants' Caves, Aden Cemetery ... . Through that a lot of the supply for newly starting players has vanished. The developers took it for granted that there would be high-level players around who support the economy with old money/old equipment being sold on. We are all living on resources that have been accumulated in the past.
To sum it up, in a perfect world without bots, having a monthly subscription model without L2 Store, the game could not survive.
The word "wipe" is a bit misleading. Maybe we should rephrase the question: "Is the in-game economy as of Lindvior self-sufficient?"
The answer is no. The in-game economy is designed with the Korean situation in mind, where part of the players' game time points get automatically converted into NCoins when they play in internet cafes (the "PC"in our "Player Commendation Points" stands originally for "PCcafe Points"). Since they get those NCoins anyway - there is no way to disable the conversion - they might as well buy shots for them: http://nshop.plaync.com/pointshop/goods/list?categoryPath=1&gameId=32
So that's an operating expense Koreans don't have.
The main problem with the crafting system in Lindvior is that you need a lvl 85 Maestro to craft the mats for B-Grade equipment. Without the cheating that the Path to Awakening ultimately is, it would take a really really long time for any Dwarf to reach lvl 85 without shots and relying for his equipment on full drops. The Path to Awakening is basically like the Soviet Union giving economic aid to North Korea, without which the country is reduced to a North Asian climate with one harvest per year.
Theoretically this would not be a problem - there is no reason why everybody should reach R-Grade within 5 years. But unfortunately the developers have step by step upgraded ever more low-level hunting grounds: Beast Farm, Giants' Caves, Aden Cemetery ... . Through that a lot of the supply for newly starting players has vanished. The developers took it for granted that there would be high-level players around who support the economy with old money/old equipment being sold on. We are all living on resources that have been accumulated in the past.
To sum it up, in a perfect world without bots, having a monthly subscription model without L2 Store, the game could not survive.
Problem, that you can't really see, that the players would go to spots with the target, that they take a spoiler and make AOE party to get goods. I did test myself the spoil it is agreeable just need more players who will return to open field farm and leave the instances and stop to do the dailies.
For sure, that the upcoming items and levels in the future like 1-2 years later will be able to achieve through open field farm.
If we will get XP grounds like Raider Crossroads, Land of Chaos or Hellbound for the bots will be close to impossible to farm on these spots, so we have to farm to ourself the gears.
This will be the interesting how the people will able change to these times.
In Korea looks the Epoisidion update was successful at least on the last week the Lineage 2 could stand before the "big rival" Archeage on the most played game list, so I think the Lineage 2 even if slow, but moving on a good path to achieve back more and more from its old reputation.
Problem, that you can't really see, that the players would go to spots with the target, that they take a spoiler and make AOE party to get goods. I did test myself the spoil it is agreeable just need more players who will return to open field farm and leave the instances and stop to do the dailies.
For sure, that the upcoming items and levels in the future like 1-2 years later will be able to achieve through open field farm.
If we will get XP grounds like Raider Crossroads, Land of Chaos or Hellbound for the bots will be close to impossible to farm on these spots, so we have to farm to ourself the gears.
This will be the interesting how the people will able change to these times.
In Korea looks the Epoisidion update was successful at least on the last week the Lineage 2 could stand before the "big rival" Archeage on the most played game list, so I think the Lineage 2 even if slow, but moving on a good path to achieve back more and more from its old reputation.
Nah this game sucks now. GoD killed it, with the livindor update they really just put a bandaid over a wound, but when that wound heals a scar will always show. F2P just made this game flood with bots, economy seems like its crashing, achieving gear is waaay to easy. Best bet is to wait and see if they even will create a newer lineage mmorpg (not eternal) or just play a new game
Problem, that you can't really see, that the players would go to spots with the target, that they take a spoiler and make AOE party to get goods. I did test myself the spoil it is agreeable just need more players who will return to open field farm and leave the instances and stop to do the dailies.
For sure, that the upcoming items and levels in the future like 1-2 years later will be able to achieve through open field farm.
If we will get XP grounds like Raider Crossroads, Land of Chaos or Hellbound for the bots will be close to impossible to farm on these spots, so we have to farm to ourself the gears.
This will be the interesting how the people will able change to these times.
In Korea looks the Epoisidion update was successful at least on the last week the Lineage 2 could stand before the "big rival" Archeage on the most played game list, so I think the Lineage 2 even if slow, but moving on a good path to achieve back more and more from its old reputation.
your opinion is biased and you are already 99 with top items. players no need to farm adena like you showed, they need to farm the items becuse adena couldnt exist at all and you can still trade items. now guess what, the influx of new items is very low, most items are still from last update. ask yourself how a new playr is going to get immortal or twilight, yea from spoiling and farming 90-95 areas with free gear from path of awakening. how are you going to get seraph, oh yea you need a bunch of noble chars and farm for months to get it from oly... or get 97+ with idk what gear and hope to get it in 97+ instances. try to get r99, the 'easiest' way is still from oly. big bosses drop r99 but try to share 1 breastplate that drop once a week to 100 ppl. crafting r99... gl.
Honestly I do not have that answer, but look how many new servers lately has emerged in the last 18 months ... :rolleyes::rolleyes: ... that it would be attractive to have some "fresh" server just to put a smirk on those who QQ for a server wipe.
It was a rhetorical question
Further more there will absolutely be no more new servers. Go back to the private servers where they wipe them bi-weekly. No one wants it here nor cares.
This is a business making money. If you can't deal with that then there's the door, get to steppin.
Running servers has some expenses. You certainly don't expect that they would open a 6th server, when THREE of the existing ones don't even reach full capacity?
As if there were less RMT and bots on the server that you play when compared to Bartz, Magmeld and Shilen to point you consider your server as full capacity? GG.
Further more there will absolutely be no more new servers.
Spoke as a legitimate employee of the home.
By the way, has served many cups of coffee to your coworkers?
Go back to the private servers where they wipe them bi-weekly. No one wants it here nor cares.
This is a business making money. If you can't deal with that then there's the door, get to steppin.
Correct, in this regard I had no difficulty making billions in adena and items in the first month of lindvior, with any luck, obvious.
What I want to point out is: since decided to go back to the time of the caves, implementing a system of craft (which by the way wonderful and above all "new").
Why would not it be convenient to implement a new server, but that is legitimately low rate, not as it is now. (It's just a bright idea, and not a serious suggestion)
D*mn, I was always faithful to L2 as low rate ... now prefer that at least each player or each clan can have your own crafter or spoil and consequently leaves servers overpopulated, both old and new players, and consequently the abuse of players with BOT ...
... And then I have to come visit the official forum and have it come across topics like: Naia or Chronos Down, because of ... QQ
The word "wipe" is a bit misleading. Maybe we should rephrase the question: "Is the in-game economy as of Lindvior self-sufficient?"
The answer is no.
I think this is the core of the problem in Lindvior. Surely some people will point out that: "by making a spoiler and a crafter you will be able to get enough funds for gear" and they will be probably be right. Only problem is that this concept existed in the past and failed miserably. It led to botting and RMT but also to legitimate players quitting. In the end, those who remained in game, regardless if they used illegal means or not, managed to gather a lot of resources and gear. But they also found themselves in empty servers, cosntantly shrinking and merging whining "why doesn't NC Soft advertise this game more?". In the end even RMT companies stopped selling adena since there was no market for them.
What people fail to see is that a game, in order to survive needs a healthy playerbase; not only the dedicated hardcore players but the casual ones as well. The concept "make one main, 1-2 alt characters for money and 1 buffer for exp" is not attractive to the majority of players.
I too think that new craft system is OK, unfortunately not completely thought through and finished. New server or wipe would not survive, it's relying on old supplies too much. If you make spoil for the purpose of supporting you main and all you get till 90-ies is thread. Recipes for B grade gear on and basic crafts are farmed at 95+ areas. No quests with updated rewards (stacato? FoD?) an no manor. GL, HF.
I think this is the core of the problem in Lindvior. Surely some people will point out that: "by making a spoiler and a crafter you will be able to get enough funds for gear" and they will be probably be right. Only problem is that this concept existed in the past and failed miserably. It led to botting and RMT but also to legitimate players quitting. In the end, those who remained in game, regardless if they used illegal means or not, managed to gather a lot of resources and gear. But they also found themselves in empty servers, cosntantly shrinking and merging whining "why doesn't NC Soft advertise this game more?". In the end even RMT companies stopped selling adena since there was no market for them.
What people fail to see is that a game, in order to survive needs a healthy playerbase; not only the dedicated hardcore players but the casual ones as well. The concept "make one main, 1-2 alt characters for money and 1 buffer for exp" is not attractive to the majority of players.
Well said, agreed. Was the only way I'd get anywhere making gear for my toons. Then it just became really expensive or you spent a lot of time trying to gather certain items needed. Then try to craft and ***POOF** failed.
I think yes, the game would be much more harder but i personally like the challenge. The Harder the better. I dont know if after a wipe on lindvior and one year later you will see Lv 99 players with full gear, oe weapons and all the items + huge amounts of adena but one moment... that would be awesome!! Game is destroyed by its players, RMT and all the illegit stuff. First tell the devs to make sure L2 becomes impossible to bot or use any kind of software on it and then wipe it and you will have an awesome experience. Obviously not for those people who wants everything easy.
Game as it is now = bad / easy
Game with wipe + bots and all the same = bad / hard
Game with wipe + impossible to cheat = good / hard
Game as it is now + impossible to cheat = Eventually will turn good / hard
Devs are using lindvior for "do some cleaning" in game, slowly as a turtle can be, extreme slowly... the point on their view now is make players break their sets/weapons trying to enchant, unbind and sell items. Spoil? GL. We still have bugs and way more problems. Is a "dark period" on l2, like a rest for who is already geared and it is time for the low lvls suffer with inferior sets/weapon in a crazy economy (try ur luck in bartz and lol with prices there).
Wipe is not the answer, ncwest will lose all their credibility. People will think: "Why should I expend days and days of my life playing in official at 1x if they wipe it like any private server that I can lvl faster and etc?"