Secret Bow/Crossbow resist on all NPC?

General Discussion Started Last reply 45 posts
Since Lindvior went out I noticed that skills are doing way more damage then bow/xbow critical hits, UNLIKE before. I tought that was from the instance changes, some boost to skill damage, but the math dont sum it up.
Taking my normal crits vs pinpoint shot on ANY mob/raid so far since Lindvior, pinpoint is always doing near double dmg. Before Lindvior it used to do more more damage only in skill critical.
But, if im right, looks like the devs forgot to give this secret resit to all mobs.
Take a look at the screens:

http://imageshack.us/a/img38/9782/1vfa.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img109/5155/xehr.jpg

So, what the **** is this?

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2015 update:
Ok, Marty is here and skill no awnser for the real change that was done.
Months after I posted this in 2013 I found out that what really changed was the CRITICAL DAMAGE modifier on weapons based on their type(sword, pole, bow etc).
You see, since forever, base critical damage was always 2x the dormal damage. Since Lindvior they started playing whith that setting depending on the weapon, whithout any notice on patchs. Juji said for me to ask for a Lab test back then, I did but he just deleted my request.
I tested with a lowbie toon without any buff, passive skills or jewels, different weapons and their critical damage. Actually I test every update.

So far, after 2 years of updates, bows/xbows still have their modifier set below 2x, something around 1.2~1.4 while other weapons had their ups and downs(basicly ALL except bows/xbow are now above 2x).
This changed the game play for archer a ******* lot, from shoot and kite to standing still spamming skills. (Yes, I know they got insane 101 skill now).
Actually, before GoD archer play style was basicly shoot and kite cause skills damage sucked hard. After GoD (actually even a bit before in High Five) they finally gave some good skills to archer. But then Lindvior came and they stared messing up.
Fully buffed and with AQ+Baium I used to do 6x the normal damage on criticals. After Lindvior this dropped to 3x, leaving archers no choice but to stand still spamming skills.

Minds Eye is no execuse for this nerf, since its by far the boost skill with highest reuse over other classes like Berzerk from Tyrs or Dual casting from nukers. And remember we lost Cat Buff from Arcana Lord since it dont stack with awekened buffs.

Juji when will you admit this changes like the one with the max magic critical rate?
well that's strange, i'm yul myself and with crit hit i can do up to 8 (sometimes 12)x more dmg than w/ pinpoint
The old seige fire stance added more crit dmg than the new self buffs. I don't know the numbers off hand but it was a substantial decrease.
The old siege fire stance gave 40% critical damage at lvl 4, that is 2 earth wyrm rings.The new one give skill power and patck
The old siege fire stance gave 40% critical damage at lvl 4, that is 2 earth wyrm rings.The new one give skill power and patck

new one only gives p.atk
PLASE. If you dont read the whole thread dont mind posting.
PLASE. If you dont read the whole thread dont mind posting.

PLASE.If you dont learn to write/speak english dont mind posting.
Juji, can you explain those screens?

Why I hit a mob for almost 30k dmg with PinPoint and for 15k~ with critical hit and hit another for 17k~ 30k~ respectively?

Is there any other explanation but some hidden resist for normal bow/xbow hits?
maybe server lag and forgot to load shots? this is more common than suddenly hidden resists...
maybe server lag and forgot to load shots? this is more common than suddenly hidden resists...

ofc not. ive noticed that since 1st day of lindvior, and after i saw that on pagans I made many tests, checked all stuff like debuffs ans shots.

theres nothing besides that 'resist' that could explain this.
Juji? Cryo? HGMSpam(miss you)?
It all went wrong ços of the stupid choice they made available to make, when you re-awake. Human awaking as GS and then QQ-ing where is the dmg. If you want crit. power on normal attack (aka F1) play Saggi. You want dmg on skills - make GS. Want the middle - have a trickster. If you're so deperate to make a hero, then go for the MS.

Since i started this charr, it always fallowed it path as DE Ghost Sentinel and so far nothing is wrong with it. The dmg is as it should be, the p./m. def is as lowest as it should be. Everything is ok. Stop messing with your charrs and everything will be ok.

Also especially for the NPCs, my the dmg on normal crit now is HIGHER then before (with the same lvl 3 Siege stance that used to give 35% crit dmg.)
It all went wrong ços of the stupid choice they made available to make, when you re-awake. Human awaking as GS and then QQ-ing where is the dmg. If you want crit. power on normal attack (aka F1) play Saggi. You want dmg on skills - make GS. Want the middle - have a trickster. If you're so deperate to make a hero, then go for the MS.

Since i started this charr, it always fallowed it path as DE Ghost Sentinel and so far nothing is wrong with it. The dmg is as it should be, the p./m. def is as lowest as it should be. Everything is ok. Stop messing with your charrs and everything will be ok.

Also especially for the NPCs, my the dmg on normal crit now is HIGHER then before (with the same lvl 3 Siege stance that used to give 35% crit dmg.)


???

Has nothing to do with reawakening. I noticed that before reawakening. Noticed that on all reawakened archer classes that I test.
Did you even read the whole thread? Did you see the screens? Did you test?
Is this forum 90% full of ******s?
first off, learn to play your character and also read patch notes. the secret resists you speak of are not really there because you probably OE'd your pinpoint shot for PVP. every archer knows that regular attacks crit more than specials and because of your passives, your crit hits do alot more damage than skill damage. geez another ND that doesn't know how to play his character
first off, learn to play your character and also read patch notes. the secret resists you speak of are not really there because you probably OE'd your pinpoint shot for PVP. every archer knows that regular attacks crit more than specials and because of your passives, your crit hits do alot more damage than skill damage. geez another ND that doesn't know how to play his character

Yeah.. oe pinpont at 97. I rest my case with you here.
Not to mention im talking about critical dmg vs skill dmg(NO CRITICAL) which is inconsistent depending on the mob, and your talking about normal crit chance vs skill crit chance.


READ THE WHOLE ******* THREAD BEFORE TRASHING IT WITH YOUR STUPIDITY.

My threads are ******s magnet.. seriously!

Juji, no comment on that?!
Gonna have to ask at rochand? Ask for test at innova forums?
Yeah.. oe pinpont at 97. I rest my case with you here.
Not to mention im talking about critical dmg vs skill dmg(NO CRITICAL) which is inconsistent depending on the mob, and your talking about normal crit chance vs skill crit chance.


READ THE WHOLE ******* THREAD BEFORE TRASHING IT WITH YOUR STUPIDITY.

My threads are ******s magnet.. seriously!

Juji, no comment on that?!
Gonna have to ask at rochand? Ask for test at innova forums?

daikon meu amigo, o pinpoint ignora 30% da defesa, sera que nao eh isso nao?
Yeah.. oe pinpont at 97. I rest my case with you here.
Not to mention im talking about critical dmg vs skill dmg(NO CRITICAL) which is inconsistent depending on the mob, and your talking about normal crit chance vs skill crit chance.


READ THE WHOLE ******* THREAD BEFORE TRASHING IT WITH YOUR STUPIDITY.

My threads are ******s magnet.. seriously!

Juji, no comment on that?!
Gonna have to ask at rochand? Ask for test at innova forums?
lv 97 yul MS here, in pagan dmg w/ pinpoint up to 70k (if not crit), simple attack crit up to 700k. see where i'm going? (tested at saturday)
daikon meu amigo, o pinpoint ignora 30% da defesa, sera que nao eh isso nao?

se fosse isso teria tirado mais dano em pagans tb.

pagans:
- pinpoint 17k / critical 29k (quase o dobro)
gog(como ex. pode ser qq lugar):
- pinpoint 29k / critical 15k (quase metade)

isso com mesmo buffs, com ss em ambos os casos, mobs sem debuffs.
lv 97 yul MS here, in pagan dmg w/ pinpoint up to 70k (if not crit), simple attack crit up to 700k. see where i'm going? (tested at saturday)

now try anyother mob anywhere you want. you'll see your critical dmg will never pass pinpoint. (pls dont use mind eye or br for this as they dont fit the problem. before lindvior even without br/mindeye, pinpoint dmg was never higher then criticals.)

before lindvior, with the same setup my critical dmg was always higher then pinpoint. even without br/mindeye. on any mob/raid.
now try anyother mob anywhere you want. you'll see your critical dmg will never pass pinpoint. (pls dont use mind eye or br for this as they dont fit the problem. before lindvior even without br/mindeye, pinpoint dmg was never higher then criticals.)

before lindvior, with the same setup my critical dmg was always higher then pinpoint. even without br/mindeye. on any mob/raid.

yes, it's the same for almoust every mob i have attacked (only at sos pinpoint does more dmg than crit hit)
yes, it's the same for almoust every mob i have attacked (only at sos pinpoint does more dmg than crit hit)

can you post some screens please?
can you post some screens please?

i hope i'll be able to do some on saturday
This is what i see in this thread.

"I am a terrible player that can not adapt to a changing game! GM!!!! PLZ TAKE GAME BACK TO WHAT IT WAS FOR ME!!!!!!111"

Stop sucking and learn to adapt.
Yeah.. oe pinpont at 97. I rest my case with you here.
Not to mention im talking about critical dmg vs skill dmg(NO CRITICAL) which is inconsistent depending on the mob, and your talking about normal crit chance vs skill crit chance.


READ THE WHOLE ******* THREAD BEFORE TRASHING IT WITH YOUR STUPIDITY.

My threads are ******s magnet.. seriously!

Juji, no comment on that?!
Gonna have to ask at rochand? Ask for test at innova forums?


first off, i read your whole thread and i almost had to run your first post through google translator to understand what you are complaining about. secondly there is no static crit damage, it varies. why do you think the GM's are not answering you? because it's working as intended. if you think your threads are magnets for stupidity maybe you should stop baiting people with it.
with update skill dmg formula changed from epseidon update i believe, thats why u hit so hard with skills. Archer resist is all the same if u autoattack or u use skill with bow its exactly same reduction
i can only ADD archers are too much OP or some kind of bugged, they need nerf in next patch
u guys really dont understand this n00dles??


both screens are from AFTER UPDATE
first screen shows lvl 97? 99? mob with X damage (more then 2nd screen) using skill or not is not the problem here

2nd screen shows lvl 90? mob with X damage (LESS then 1st screen)
again skill damage has no effect here

the guy is asking why he does less damage on certain mobs the answer is fairly simple but w/e
resist? > pagan is all dark so holy bow does more damage if thats case?
maybe mobs in GoG have more pdef?
maybe u have wind attack? mobs in GoG have Resist against it

could be so many things but i personally didnt lost damage in this update
cus pre update i did quick check on Octavis doing 120k+ crits i was afraid losing my -40% crit damage toggle would nerf **** out of my archer

so after update we went again same conditions/debuffs still did 120k+ crits i didnt see major damage loss nor increase!
so nothing changed
DONT MIND POSTING IF YOU WONT READ THE WHOLE THREAD. DONT BE USELESS.


why so much caps
If I recall right, the NPC that give the daily in Pagans tells you something like you will do more damage on normal/auto attacks. Can't remember the exact words but when ever you go there just read it. I think mobs in pagans have weakpoint for normal atack damage.
Yes, man, noticed the same. A good friend of mine came back to L2 awakened as Sagi and asked me the
same. "What's up with our criticals? They don't do nearly as much damage as skills" and I was like "That's right, skills do much more damage now". He then went on saying that archers aren't exactly archers anymore because they were all about criticals anymore and now they're all about skill power.
bump.

Juji?!?!?!?!?!
I responded to your question in the maintenance thread last week.
http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3360478&postcount=14

Levels, Stats, Elemental Resists, and Attributes are also different on many town NPCs as well as regular mobs with different versions.

I suggest you submit a lab test request with what you specifically want tested. I can turn off random damage and test different types of NPCs as well.
Up. Updated the unanswered issue.
http://i.imgur.com/tD3N1Ti.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/xzWXUpz.jpg)

What are you talking about.
Notice how..
1. My skills do more damage than my normal hits.
2. My skill critical does around 2 times higher damage.
3. My regular hits are nowhere close "1.2x - 1.4x"
4. They are more like 2 times higher damage.

"So far, after 2 years of updates, bows/xbows still have their modifier set below 2x, something around 1.2~1.4 while other weapons had their ups and downs(basicly ALL except bows/xbow are now above 2x)."


If i apply your numbers to my normal hits on bunny, it would be like this.
8000 * 1.2 = 9600, ok not even close to 14000.
8000 * 1.4 11200, ok not even close again.

Hmm.. lets try 8000 * 1.8x = 14400.... DING DING DING.
From what I know, damage varience is around 20%, add those up and it looks pretty dang close to 2x critical modifier for bows.
Same applies to my damage on the mobs over there too.


Now can you please stop pretending you stumbled upon some great conspiracy?
For years you have been pestering us with this nonsense.

PS. Before you try to be a ******** and say I forgot my jewelry on, I did unequip all of my jewelry.
http://i.imgur.com/tD3N1Ti.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/xzWXUpz.jpg)

What are you talking about.
Notice how..
1. My skills do more damage than my normal hits.
2. My skill critical does around 2 times higher damage.
3. My regular hits are nowhere close "1.2x - 1.4x"
4. They are more like 2 times higher damage.

"So far, after 2 years of updates, bows/xbows still have their modifier set below 2x, something around 1.2~1.4 while other weapons had their ups and downs(basicly ALL except bows/xbow are now above 2x)."


If i apply your numbers to my normal hits on bunny, it would be like this.
8000 * 1.2 = 9600, ok not even close to 14000.
8000 * 1.4 11200, ok not even close again.

Hmm.. lets try 8000 * 1.8x = 14400.... DING DING DING.
From what I know, damage varience is around 20%, add those up and it looks pretty dang close to 2x critical modifier for bows.
Same applies to my damage on the mobs over there too.


Now can you please stop pretending you stumbled upon some great conspiracy?
For years you have been pestering us with this nonsense.

PS. Before you try to be a ******** and say I forgot my jewelry on, I did unequip all of my jewelry.

In pagans you hit harder with normal hits than with skills. The quest NPC explains that.
There is not the place to test this. At the time I saw this happening it was just a sad coincidence I was in pagans. Anywhere else this applys.
Go buffless and without any item that gives critical bonus and you'll see. Test on any npc, mob etc.
Your bow criticals will never get even close to 2x. You can stay whole day to count in the variance, will not matter.
In pagans you hit harder with normal hits than with skills. The quest NPC explains that.
There is not the place to test this. At the time I saw this happening it was just a sad coincidence I was in pagans. Anywhere else this applys.
Go buffless and without any item that gives critical bonus and you'll see. Test on any npc, mob etc.
Your bow criticals will never get even close to 2x. You can stay whole day to count in the variance, will not matter.

http://i.imgur.com/32YWTPw.jpg

Would say that critical damage is pretty close to 2x.
Same story in all places I've tried.

Given up yet?
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Wassap wif dat?
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Wassap wif dat?


Was changing a macro, forgot to edit it. Hit macro button on keyboard, kept spamming / / / // / / / // / /
Was changing a macro, forgot to edit it. Hit macro button on keyboard, kept spamming / / / // / / / // / /Bot detected!!! Jk, but if I didn't say it, some idiot who really thought it would've lol
Bot detected!!! Jk, but if I didn't say it, some idiot who really thought it would've lol

Just a matter of time. Haha :D
http://i.imgur.com/32YWTPw.jpg

Would say that critical damage is pretty close to 2x.
Same story in all places I've tried.

Given up yet?

Cool story, you crit for 8500, 1500 less then double normal hit which was 5000.

BUT
you forgot Kelbim Bow gives 15% critical damage bonus. PLUS 10% more from your Superior Critical Arrow passive. So thats your critical damage with already 25% bonus. Less then 2x, which was the base since they nerfed it in Lindvior two years ago and still nobody ******* else noticed but me.
See now?!

I already asked juji to test this on qa server without damage variance but he didnt and even deleted my request.
Cool story, you crit for 8500, 1500 less then double normal hit which was 5000.

BUT
you forgot Kelbim Bow gives 15% critical damage bonus. PLUS 10% more from your Superior Critical Arrow passive. So thats your critical damage with already 25% bonus. Less then 2x, which was the base since they nerfed it in Lindvior two years ago and still nobody ******* else noticed but me.
See now?!

I already asked juji to test this on qa server without damage variance but he didnt and even deleted my request.

Okay, you are right, they did lower the critical damage modifer on bows, but we got a passive skill to make up for it, a long with some new fancy skills.
Obviously it was done for balancing reasons, which is understandable.
Didnt people call lindvior the yul patch?

But ok, if you want to continue this vendetta go ahead :)
Okay, you are right, they did lower the critical damage modifer on bows, but we got a passive skill to make up for it, a long with some new fancy skills.
Obviously it was done for balancing reasons, which is understandable.
Didnt people call lindvior the yul patch?

But ok, if you want to continue this vendetta go ahead :)

Yeah, maybe for balance. At Lindvior they also nerfed daggers, and any dual weapons. They boosted poles, single handed swords.
Next update they boosted daggers and everyone tought was because of the new dagger skill(critical adventures, etc).
Then, boosted dual weapons in some later update.

And ******* bows\xbows still nerfed. All other are above 2x atm.

But thats ok. Every single archer ****** is not pressing any keys to stand spamming skills anyway. Its all done by ******* ranger, so they dont care.

No wonder archers suck for raids and pve. Unless ur fully stacked to the teeth, you're just crap.

R.I.P kite playstyle.

And I still want tests done over this and an explanation.
Im hitting raids above 600k at times (tauti, open field magic type etc) and im using a kelbim bow, you dont need the best gear to do good damage:p.
Of course you can surpass the damage of a yul with other classes if you're stacked enough/proper buffed, but thats more damage than most DDs can put out for a very low cost.

ATM yul is the cheapest class to play, just put a 2SA apocalypse bow on and try pvping similar geared feohs, tyrrs, healers, you will beat them all 9/10 times i promise you ;)