Everyone is talking about the sudden influx of bots that use scripts to sign for the Ceremony of Chaos automatically and fill it up before real players can react. As soon as CoC registration begins, it's instantly full.
No matter how quickly I click the sign-up icon when it pops up, in most cases I can't even get the dialog window to appear. All I see is "You cannot register because capacity has been exceeded".
And in some cases there is no icon at all: only a system message "Registration for the Ceremony of Chaos has begun" - and nothing else. Nothing to click on. THE FLASHING ICON DOES NOT APPEAR, as if "capasity has been exceeded" BEFORE the start of registration.
At best, I get to play 1 match out of 3. And when I manage to get in, there are only a couple of active players in the arena and 15-16 afk'ers. I assume that most of those AFK toons are bots: all in Immortal armor, with Requiem weapons.
Oddly enough, when the "CoC overflow" just started, a few heroes complained in hero chat that they could not sign in to farm the tournament. A few days later, the situation has gotten much worse but I see no complaints anymore: I guess they just obtained proper scripts to continue farming their AFK minions, while other players are excluded from participation.
This problem first occured a few months ago, but after a few days everything was back to normal, as if someone removed a significant number of bots or disabled the scripts. Now, it is not getting better at all, so I'd like to know if the "management" is going to do anything about it.
I like the way NC manages the game for the cheaters/botters/rmt.
They do an excellent job.
Now be a good boy and go buy some nifty stuff from the NC Store. How about the new "NC toilet paper" so every time you go to the bathroom you can think of NC.
Oddly enough, when the "CoC overflow" just started, a few heroes complained in hero chat that they could not sign in to farm the tournament. A few days later, the situation has gotten much worse but I see no complaints anymore: I guess they just obtained proper scripts to continue farming their AFK minions, while other players are excluded from participation.
Some of us did complain in hero shout, but there's just no point to continuously going on about it in global chat. It sucks and they need to address it.
3 ways to stop this:
1) IP limit on how many toons can be in there (say 2 per IP max)
2) Repeated mass bannings for botting this (unlikely to happen)
3) Make everything from the CoC manager non-tradable (since this is the reason it is being botted)
Besides CoC, every place is game was slowly repopulated by bots since the last major clean up. Guillotine Fortress barely has any mobs left for players to do their daily.
i concur... in the past week(s) i can barely sign 4-5 times in 4 hours of coc as legit player
the invitation doesnt even appear many times now, if it does its already full, as described by op.
its the only thing i did most of the times, even this as afk, since lindvior started but now even this is dead. not long ago you could have seen some empty spots in eg/pod/orbis/stronghold/whatever... now its all trains, even in coc. can any of those gm's care at all of whats happening or just let every spot in the game be taken by trains and common players have to go back to other games?
you know, at some point those trains would stop providing you with nc coins because it will be only trains to sell to themselves
From Cryo - February 2013:
"We are looking for new anti-bot software"
Just wait more six months or four years and we will be able to join CoC.
For Lineage 2 consider lineage2.eu
For BotBuyAdenaAge 2 stay here and have fun.
I have noticed it went down the drain by start of weekend, on Friday I had mostly matches where it was me and one max two other live players.
Couple times I also met group of players in R99 apparently knowing their identities, healing chars that other unrelated player(s) were killing, then just 2 or 3 of them standing rest of the match doing nothing or just friendly poking till the end.
BTW icon in map radar may appear faster than on bar, not always or may be just my imagination but I usually click from map.
Some of us did complain in hero shout, but there's just no point to continuously going on about it in global chat. It sucks and they need to address it.
3 ways to stop this:
1) IP limit on how many toons can be in there (say 2 per IP max)
2) Repeated mass bannings for botting this (unlikely to happen)
3) Make everything from the CoC manager non-tradable (since this is the reason it is being botted)
4) Make it work like Oly. A queue instead of a first to click gets to enter.
It sucks and they need to address it.
3 ways to stop this:
1) IP limit on how many toons can be in there (say 2 per IP max)
2) Repeated mass bannings for botting this (unlikely to happen)
3) Make everything from the CoC manager non-tradable (since this is the reason it is being botted)
1. IP limit would help, and I guess it can be easily implemented by NCNA, but with the current number of bots... not sure it will help much.
2. Mass removal of botted afk dummies would be the best, quickest and easiest solution... but it would require some will from NCsoft.
3. Making all the rewards non-tradable would work against bots, but it would also affect the rest. It takes just a few days to earn a CoC ring/earring; once I have them, what should I get next? To me, tradable CoC rewards are the only source of income atm (since drops are non-existent), so, I'd agree with making them non-tradable only if they added some really valuable rewards, like, any epic of choice, or epic bottles, etc.
Anyway, changing the list of rewards is out of NCNA competence; therefore, this suggestion will be ignored like the rest.
Resume: the only way to solve the current problem and bring real players back to CoCT is remove the bots (or disable the scripts).
Couple times I also met group of players in R99 apparently knowing their identities, healing chars that other unrelated player(s) were killing, then just 2 or 3 of them standing rest of the match doing nothing or just friendly poking till the end.
I have nothing against groups of players helping each other; I'd rather enter the arena filled with live players (whether they are helping each other of fighting) than see dead arenas filled with afk bots where I cannot enter at all.
Btw there are lots of legit ways to guess who is who in CoC: some players represent a rare combo of race/class/level, some have remarkable weapon/armor appearance, and some have unique playstyle (e.g. a dagger that does Fake Death 40-50 times per minute... that's quite impressive!). Add to that visible talismans (as long as Desire/Longing are still rather rare).
Finally, do you know that you can check one's /olympiadstat while fighting in CoC? ;) Sometimes it helps to figure out a player's identity (you just need to constantly monitor the Oly and keep the records).
the only hero complained about this issues was doctorraddi, few others nova and the summoner hero nd(atm dont remember the name ) , no hero from fs say any word, yesterday doctorraddi (nova hero hopefull for coc) was able to sign for a few round.. , but if u look from the npc inside all the arena u can see allways icex (dagger with vesper noble set/divine prot pot/soul agathion) fs hero hopefull for coc , donspastis (hero skill) , other fs dagger like gemman/marcellus (ninja outfit) derialbsoe ( with the pet summoned) , are allways inside , so i suppose after icex and other fs using so many money inside this month of coc (divine prot/rune/soul agathion), they wanna be sure to win it at any way, and sign main toon+box to full coc and make legit ppl to not be able to sign .
I have noticed it went down the drain by start of weekend, on Friday I had mostly matches where it was me and one max two other live players.
Couple times I also met group of players in R99 apparently knowing their identities, healing chars that other unrelated player(s) were killing, then just 2 or 3 of them standing rest of the match doing nothing or just friendly poking till the end.
BTW icon in map radar may appear faster than on bar, not always or may be just my imagination but I usually click from map.
its easy to know the ppl inside coc, from skill they use , armor appreance , vent . and if u see ppl helping each other is because they wanna help who is trying to win the coc hero or need the 3day belt . so its nothing wrong about doing it
3. Making all the rewards non-tradable would work against bots, but it would also affect the rest. It takes just a few days to earn a CoC ring/earring; once I have them, what should I get next? To me, tradable CoC rewards are the only source of income atm (since drops are non-existent), so, I'd agree with making them non-tradable only if they added some really valuable rewards, like, any epic of choice, or epic bottles, etc.
Anyway, changing the list of rewards is out of NCNA competence; therefore, this suggestion will be ignored like the rest.
.
Well, I understand you want to make some money, but if it stays as is then people are going to continue to mass farm it and you won't even be able to get anything for your own toon, nevermind trying to farm stuff to sell.
agree point 3 for short term measure till GSU team manage to ban those bots just like when they blocked char creation on Naia / Chronos to deal with the out of control nonsense and once things stabilized return things back to normal..
the only hero complained about this issues was doctorraddi, few others nova and the summoner hero nd(atm dont remember the name ) , no hero from fs say any word, yesterday doctorraddi (nova hero hopefull for coc) was able to sign for a few round.. , but if u look from the npc inside all the arena u can see allways icex (dagger with vesper noble set/divine prot pot/soul agathion) fs hero hopefull for coc , donspastis (hero skill) , other fs dagger like gemman/marcellus (ninja outfit) derialbsoe ( with the pet summoned) , are allways inside , so i suppose after icex and other fs using so many money inside this month of coc (divine prot/rune/soul agathion), they wanna be sure to win it at any way, and sign main toon+box to full coc and make legit ppl to not be able to sign .
With what right do you tell me that i auto-sign coc or have alts signing in ? This is getting completely ******ed. I am going to petition you to Ncsoft right now for acusing me of these things. Maybe if you get banned you will watch better what you write in forums next time.
With what right do you tell me that i auto-sign coc or have alts signing in ? This is getting completely ******ed. I am going to petition you to Ncsoft right now for acusing me of these things. Maybe if you get banned you will watch better what you write in forums next time.
I think you don't join CoC because BSOE don't work inside arena.
With what right do you tell me that i auto-sign coc or have alts signing in ? This is getting completely ******ed. I am going to petition you to Ncsoft right now for acusing me of these things. Maybe if you get banned you will watch better what you write in forums next time.
With what right do you tell me that i auto-sign coc or have alts signing in ? This is getting completely ******ed. I am going to petition you to Ncsoft right now for acusing me of these things. Maybe if you get banned you will watch better what you write in forums next time.
1 of all where i say u sign unlegit?
2 im so scared to get banned on this forum , pls dont do it:(
3 can tell at all the community of l2/chronos how u can sign every round , while all chronos dont get even the message to press?
If derian4fail uses programs then he sux at it! He can't kill a fly with bazooka!
Only thing he does is port hit 1-2 soft hits and then bsoe... i guess when god was raining brains he was in waterproof submarine to avoid them!
Of course it's not difficult to recognize who may be who in CoC, but I can still vent my rant about this beating purpose of what is supposed to be anonymous tournament. Signing in and seeing 2 live friends-like persons alongside dozen naked chars leaves sour taste in your mouth.
Here is problem my friend, in some country's many ppl can have same ip so u can block legal players,as example "using lan connection".
Not to mention the part of hell called Carrier-grade NAT where all customers get IP address from private block and will be represented by one or more public IP address(es) to outside world - at a whole ISP level. It's slowly creeping in as world ran out of IPv4 addresses year ago and move to scary IPv6 has not even started properly. (BTW can I connect to Lineage 2 in US using IPv6? need to check it).
Tonight: 2nd round of CoCT, the icon did not appear at all.
Do NOT tell me it was due to overpopulation, too many people wanting to try and play CoC, etc. Hell NO!
I checked the arenas, 4 out of 6 were filled with afk toons with only 1 or 2 active players farming them. Only 2 arenas looked ok, with 3-5 players fighting.
Then during the next 90 min I managed to get in a few times (missing every other round); every time there were only 2 active players in the arena (including myself) while the other 16 were AFK.
I have nothing against random afk boxes being manually signed up, but what I observed really looked like a complex case of the total script war, where each side is trying to block the other from participation by instantly signing as many bots as possible, in order to farm them afterwards and reap the rewards.
Tonight: 2nd round of CoCT, the icon did not appear at all.
Do NOT tell me it was due to overpopulation, too many people wanting to try and play CoC, etc. Hell NO!
I checked the arenas, 4 out of 6 were filled with afk toons with only 1 or 2 active players farming them. Only 2 arenas looked ok, with 3-5 players fighting.
Then during the next 90 min I managed to get in a few times (missing every other round); every time there were only 2 active players in the arena (including myself) while the other 16 were AFK.
I have nothing against random afk boxes being manually signed up, but what I observed really looked like a complex case of the total script war, where each side is trying to block the other from participation by instantly signing as many bots as possible, in order to farm them afterwards and reap the rewards.
Is this how CoC should be played?
Scripts , bots , ebayers , feeders , player paying 500 euros each month for have red weapons and uber-equip , heroes flaming 24/7
When I watched the arenas from outside, I saw an elf summoner and some dagger in the same arena.
When I got in and had to fight just 1 live opponent each time, I won the match once;
the other time I got quickly killed by a human dagger in unusual armor (vesper noble?);
and in my 3rd match I killed 11 afkers, then saw a lvl 99 orc OL who had sword and shield, he was fully buffed but not moving, I was nuking him for a minute but could not kill, and he was just standing still, healing himself. Then he suddenly went live and after a long chase got me.
I forgot to check their /olympiadstat so I am not really sure who they were .
But the entire picture looked quite abnormal.
Oh it looks like this thread got ninja-edited without any comments, some posts got silently removed, Sace-style.
In the meantime, today it's even worse than yesterday. Every time CoC starts, it's instantly full.
one of the juji pm from today i got ( We're currently investigating this issue now and a lot of the posts in that topic about the issue had to be removed due to the public accusations )
This drRadish tool is hilarious with his hero shouts, I must add.
The guy owes ever single thing he's accomplished ingame to the army of bots that make up Nova, and watching him qq'ing about the possibility someone might be using his own "Bread & butter" against him daaaaamn.
Worse than a 3 yr old gurl dude.
Leave that botfest clan boy, show some integrity and you might get some support. Until then, stop making a fool of yourself. Its becoming painful.
As for juji, my buddy got the same "we're investigating the matter" reply when he sent in fraps of your newest clanmate "M1nd" botting dead center of eg for like, 4 mths straight.
You don't have the right to hold somebody accountable for standards you refuse to apply to yourself is the message here incase you missed it.
To sum it up for yesterday's CoC: I wasted 4 hours of playtime trying to get it (in case someone wondered: it's crucial to me because I xp with CoC buffs; I don't play it to win but I really need to get in every round). So, I was able to sign in on main 7 times out of 16, and just once on the buffer, which makes my total success rate equal to 25%.
Before that crap started, it was close to 100%, as registration used to last at least a few seconds, so every live player that participated in CoC regularly was able to sign up. Even if someone in the arena went afk, you could still tell they are real players, i.e. with different equipment and distinctive looks.
Nowadays, most of afk toons inside the arenas look totally the same, like typical bots from a typical train. Most of them are dark elves with bows (archers or summoners). Yet these afk dummies somehow manage to clog the tournament instantly.
If you check the stats table on the screenshot (taken in the end of the last CoC round yesterday), you can guess how many players (out of 18) were live inside the arena... while all the rest were just spot-takers. Most likely, automated.
Everyone is talking about the sudden influx of bots that use scripts to sign for the Ceremony of Chaos automatically and fill it up before real players can react. As soon as CoC registration begins, it's instantly full.
No matter how quickly I click the sign-up icon when it pops up, in most cases I can't even get the dialog window to appear. All I see is "You cannot register because capacity has been exceeded".
And in some cases there is no icon at all: only a system message "Registration for the Ceremony of Chaos has begun" - and nothing else. Nothing to click on. THE FLASHING ICON DOES NOT APPEAR, as if "capasity has been exceeded" BEFORE the start of registration.
At best, I get to play 1 match out of 3. And when I manage to get in, there are only a couple of active players in the arena and 15-16 afk'ers. I assume that most of those AFK toons are bots: all in Immortal armor, with Requiem weapons.
Oddly enough, when the "CoC overflow" just started, a few heroes complained in hero chat that they could not sign in to farm the tournament. A few days later, the situation has gotten much worse but I see no complaints anymore: I guess they just obtained proper scripts to continue farming their AFK minions, while other players are excluded from participation.
This problem first occured a few months ago, but after a few days everything was back to normal, as if someone removed a significant number of bots or disabled the scripts. Now, it is not getting better at all, so I'd like to know if the "management" is going to do anything about it.
How do you know they use requiem weapons if they are afk and in CoC?
Way to call yourself out as a user, genius. Love official forums, full of clowns.
Retri(Ipwn)'s suggestions are solid, and easy to implement; it would also eliminate the problem instantly. Not blaming FS or Nova or anyone else. It's purely nc's fault, to get to the truth of the matter. Nothing will be done, either.
Sadly, anyone who goes for hero coc anymore you can know they are not legit. Raddi was the last one. Sad state of the game.
p.s. while you are at it, make it five rounds per hour instead of four, 15 mins is too long between each match. You don't need a 5 minute registration period, two minutes would suffice.
You know it's getting bad when cheaters are pointing the finger at other cheaters for there cheats working better and faster than there cheats. Oh wait this happens all the time just different topic. Clowns.
How do you know they use requiem weapons if they are afk and in CoC?
When I see someone in noob gear, I assume they have Immortal/Requiem (not that I pay much attention to the afkers, I just assume that).
If you insist they actually had Apoca bows, prove me wrong and tell us what your proof is, genius.
Love official forums, full of clowns.
Indeed.
Not blaming FS or Nova or anyone else. It's purely nc's fault
Excuse me: someone loads a bunch of bots and it is "NC's fault"??? Blame the GMs, not the players??
It's the same as the everlasting problem with RMT: everyone complains about adena sellers/spammers yet some of the complainers (or their clannies) keep buying industrial amounts of adena from the same farmers they complain about.
Sad state of the game.
No, it is sad state of the community that embraces and justifies cheating. The community that mostly consists of cheaters and their supporters ("can't beat them, join them").
You are a bright example. Once you have joined them, you've been totally supporting them. You are among the ones to blame. Top clans = top cheaters.
Want to know who is responsible for the current state of the game? You f**ng are.
No, it is sad state of the community that embraces and justifies cheating. The community that mostly consists of cheaters and their supporters ("can't beat them, join them").
You are a bright example. Once you have joined them, you've been totally supporting them. You are among the ones to blame. Top clans = top cheaters.
Want to know who is responsible for the current state of the game? You f**ng are.
oh wait, i didnt know ppl are all saints in game and RL. why do you think there are lockers, encrypted information, police, banks with security systems and so on? if those things didnt exist there will be chaos, same as here when there is no gm and rules. look at your country (its the same everywhere but as an example) and tell me how many ppl steal stuff, bribe others and so on?
When I see someone in noob gear, I assume they have Immortal/Requiem (not that I pay much attention to the afkers, I just assume that).
If you insist they actually had Apoca bows, prove me wrong and tell us what your proof is, genius.
Indeed.
Excuse me: someone loads a bunch of bots and it is "NC's fault"??? Blame the GMs, not the players??
It's the same as the everlasting problem with RMT: everyone complains about adena sellers/spammers yet some of the complainers (or their clannies) keep buying industrial amounts of adena from the same farmers they complain about.
No, it is sad state of the community that embraces and justifies cheating. The community that mostly consists of cheaters and their supporters ("can't beat them, join them").
You are a bright example. Once you have joined them, you've been totally supporting them. You are among the ones to blame. Top clans = top cheaters.
Want to know who is responsible for the current state of the game? You f**ng are.
All your comments about gear are stupid. I said nothing about their gear, I don't know what they use, but apparently you do. In addition, you can't prove a negative, your logic is false. FYI, you could have left it at "I made the assumption" and that would have sufficed, the other nonsense just made you look defensive, but this is besides the point of your ignorant post. Now I'll address the crux of the matter:
Number one rule of human behavior is that people respond to incentives. I suppose you never attended business school and or failed Principles of Microeconomics. I'll also guess that you never understood the importance of good institutions for good governance. Lineage II currently lacks good institutions, so chaos reigns. See Douglas North, "Institutions Matter" (http://ideas.repec.org/p/wpa/wuwpeh/9411004.html).
NC does not police cheating efficiently, therefore there is a huge incentive to cheat, due to it having all sorts of good payoffs.
Relying on the "benevolent" population to ignore incentive and play nice is a terrible fallacy and an exercise that is doomed to failure; this is the same principle that socialism is based on and it is the primary reason why it fails.
The only way you will remove cheaters from any game, or any situation in life, is to provide a stronger incentive not to cheat than to cheat... i.e. punish those who do it and make it more difficult to accomplish.
So yes, ultimately it is NC's fault for blatantly ignoring said problems.
Good job NC!
Remove coc potions from game to remove this bots from coc.
Could just make all rewards bound to the character, would eliminate 95% of the problem and not punish the legitimate playerbase.
But your point is good, you are concerned eliminating the incentive, which is something only NCsoft can do. (Hint to Aconyte)
There are some tricks to sign into CoC that random players probably havnt figured out, yet (I mean legitimate ways), which is why you see some people being able to sign some of the time. But even if you are aware of these methods, you still get locked out more often than not. It's a pain in the *** for sure.
Relying on the "benevolent" population to ignore incentive and play nice is a terrible fallacy and an exercise that is doomed to failure; this is the same principle that socialism is based on and it is the primary reason why it fails.
btw, you know what fails more? capitalism...
anyway, it seems like the socialism style of koreans works very well for this game.
btw, you know what fails more? capitalism...
anyway, it seems like the socialism style of koreans works very well for this game.
Back up.
Capitalism, and only capitalism, is why you have the computer or even phone that you are typing on to post this message.
It's why you have the internet, it's why you have the power plant to power your appliances and have heat in the winter.
It's why most of the third world does not starve.
It's why the world is not still in the ages of mercantilism and serfdom.
It's why Europeans are not under the boot of dictators anymore.
It's why Japan is not in the dark ages anymore.
It's why Europe recovered from World War II.
It's why the world isn't terrified of nuclear annihilation everyday, like it use to be.
It's why humans have traveled to the moon, and have developed amazing technology like radiowaves, cell phones, and modern medicine.
Capitalism, in the purest sense, is likely why you are living today, because of medicine and food that was developed over the last five hundred years that helped prevent your ancestors from being wiped out by diseases like cholera or yellow fever. Yes, vaccines for these diseases and other ones like it were distributed based on the principle of cost/benefit and profit from capitalists and entrepreneurs who took risk and invested in their development in order to reap profits.
Pure (or close to it) capitalism is why Korea is so successful in the modern world, and is why this game, this forum even exists. Do you think if North Korea had "united" the peninsula that you'd be sitting here typing on this forum?
You are completely off-base when you consider the Korean way a "socialist" way. South Korea is well known for its decent level of economic freedom. See http://www.heritage.org/index/country/southkorea - South Korea is ranked #34 in the world. It's not on the top of the list, but it's far from socialist. While you are there, take a look at countries such as the "Democratic Republic of the Congo" and the "Democratic Republic of North Korea." Let me know how they score, and how their standard of living compares to South Korea.
I could go on for days.
Europeans are so obsessed with free education, maybe they should educate you in some economics and history.
You probably mean (even if you don't know it) crony-capitalism, which is a far cry from legitimate capitalism and is actually far closer to socialism. But that is another essay.
@fathips
i was referring to koreans as how they play their game, not related to their real economy
i dont have much knowledge about every system or how it works, i never liked this thing but from experience i can say this. we had things before capitalism and many great things happened too. many years ago we had communism, at least in my country. there were many wrong things but there wasnt such rush for profit (at any cost today), such unemployment rate, inflation, recession, stupidity, boredom, depression, violence and so on. take for example culture, education... now its all about profit, none has time or like to do that if there is no profit, none pump money in these things. inventions and innovations are the same, ppl had no constrains before, now its about time and money. we consider that our lives have been improved and we live at higher standards when in fact i see a great deterioration of our standards and many other things. and socialism should be somewhere in between communism and capitalism, right?
@fathips
i was referring to koreans as how they play their game, not related to their real economy
i dont have much knowledge about every system or how it works, i never liked this thing but from experience i can say this. we had things before capitalism and many great things happened too. many years ago we had communism, at least in my country. there were many wrong things but there wasnt such rush for profit (at any cost today), such unemployment rate, inflation, recession, stupidity, boredom, depression, violence and so on. take for example culture, education... now its all about profit, none has time or like to do that if there is no profit, none pump money in these things. inventions and innovations are the same, ppl had no constrains before, now its about time and money. we consider that our lives have been improved and we live at higher standards when in fact i see a great deterioration of our standards and many other things. and socialism should be somewhere in between communism and capitalism, right?
Okay, I don't think you know how Koreans play their game, though. Maybe I am wrong and you are an expert on Korean Gaming Psychology.
The "capitalism" that eastern Europe inheireted after the Cold War is not exactly what I would call capitalism. It's a pseudo-capitalism molded into the Muscovy personality of greed, corruption, and *** for tat behavior that has dominated eastern Europe for thousands of years (and kept them behind the West). Socialism is supposed to be an in between, but if you learn about incentives, you would learn that socialism is not sustainable over time, whereas proper capitalism is. I hope that Eastern Europe will be able to benefit from capitalism in the way that the west did for so many years. Poland has embraced the model, and is one of the most successful post-Soviet era countries. The corruption left over from the Soviet era is the problem, not capitalism in of itself.
Anyways, subject is CoC, we digress...
Rumor mill is some auto-cocers got nuked this week, but Coc is still full of afks and hard to sign into legitimately.. discuss.
Capitalism, and only capitalism, is why you have the computer or even phone that you are typing on to post this message.
Europeans are so obsessed with free education, maybe they should educate you in some economics and history.
I suggest you should do some research on the history of computers, the internet, cell phones, and any other major technological breakthroughs in the last century. Virtually ALL of them were financed by THE GOVERNMENT and NOT private companies/corporations. In most cases they were military projects wherein the Gov. either issued a grant (funding) to an educational institution or financed the research on its own.
I mean come on, this is pretty much common knowledge...
This type of research is almost always UNPROFITABLE in the beginning which is why the Gov. has to pay for it. After the research has yielded new information and/or technological breakthroughs it is given/shared/sold to the private sector.
News flash, this is a form of Socialism.....
About your other comment "Capitalism, in the purest sense, is likely why you are living today," it is so ridiculous that it doesn't even warrant a response.
I suggest you should do some research on the history of computers, the internet, cell phones, and any other major technological breakthroughs in the last century. Virtually ALL of them were financed by THE GOVERNMENT and NOT private companies/corporations. In most cases they were military projects wherein the Gov. either issued a grant (funding) to an educational institution or financed the research on its own.
I mean come on, this is pretty much common knowledge...
This type of research is almost always UNPROFITABLE in the beginning which is why the Gov. has to pay for it. After the research has yielded new information and/or technological breakthroughs it is given/shared/sold to the private sector.
News flash, this is a form of Socialism.....
About your other comment "Capitalism, in the purest sense, is likely why you are living today," it is so ridiculous that it doesn't even warrant a response.
You missed the point. The point was that capitalism brought the world out of the world of mercantilism and fuedalism. Not the direct invention of those things. In the case of those examples, those ideas and inventions were all on the market (as u said, educational institutions - private ones) prior to the US government funding them, FYI. The only exception really is space travel, which was mostly a purely government funded project. This isn't an argument for anarcho-capitalism, it's just acknowledging the millions and billions of lives saved by the economic system that so many young people who don't know better try to disparage. As they say, youth is ignorance.
Don't fall into the liberal trap of assuming you know more than other people, just because you are "just so smart," in case you are thinking so. If not, don't worry about it!
Government funding has brought some good things to the world (such as mentioned above, and include nuclear power and satellites) but that's not withstanding the vast majority of technological invention that is done without government intervention, and the "unseen" that is NOT invented, due to government interference. See Frederic Bastiat, "That which is seen, and that which is not seen, http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.htm
Modern medicine, the exponential ability to grow, harvest, preserve, and transport food, and ever increasing living standards matter of factly are a result of capitalism (more specifically, the respect of private property rights) in the last two hundred years. So yes, the fact that most of the people on the planet are alive today is a result of that. If you understood anything about economic development you'd understand that. Sure there are "leaps" in technology, which are often funded through governments (such as the American Civil War, World War II) that advanced Medicine by bounds, but the overall vast majority of advancement of all industries is done through private means. This is not a point that can be argued, nor should even be attempted to on this medium. Instead of hating people for "greed," knowledgeable people would thank those who are "out to make a buck" for their, historically speaking, high standards of living.
The above post is a result of what happens when governments pay people to get liberal arts educations at State schools. Consider yourself indoctrinated. Sigh.
p.s. thanks for contributing to the topic on the difficulty to sign into the ceremony of chaos.
It's a pseudo-capitalism molded into the Muscovy personality of greed, corruption, and *** for tat behavior that has dominated eastern Europe for thousands of years (and kept them behind the West).
Not quite true, Czechoslovakia and Poland were at the top of industrialization between World Wars. Industry (including heavy), education and manufactoring were at higher levels than let's say UK. Same with Germany later split into 2 parts (but Germany for different reasons). After WWII (1948) when Soviet Union claimed their reign over Eastern, Central Europe and "Ostblock" part of Germany things went the direction you described. Situation peaked in 1950s.
Not quite true, Czechoslovakia and Poland were at the top of industrialization between World Wars. Industry (including heavy), education and manufactoring were at higher levels than let's say UK. Same with Germany later split into 2 parts (but Germany for different reasons). After WWII (1948) when Soviet Union claimed their reign over Eastern, Central Europe and "Ostblock" part of Germany things went the direction you described. Situation peaked in 1950s.
But that's slightly off-topic :)
I always thought Czech was central europe! And Germany was Western. Touche about Poland, however =) But to be fair I did not mean it as an all inclusive statement. Cherry picking examples to the contrary generally proves the point.
What I meant was that Germany was split into 2 parts. And you're right, the part belonging to Ostblock was left behind by the other part of Germany over the course of 40 years till they re-united. But history of Communism and Marxism etc. brought into practice is not several hundred years, the October Revolution served as trigger was in 1917.
You missed the point. The point was that capitalism brought the world out of the world of mercantilism and fuedalism. Not the direct invention of those things. In the case of those examples, those ideas and inventions were all on the market (as u said, educational institutions - private ones) prior to the US government funding them, FYI. The only exception really is space travel, which was mostly a purely government funded project. This isn't an argument for anarcho-capitalism, it's just acknowledging the millions and billions of lives saved by the economic system that so many young people who don't know better try to disparage. As they say, youth is ignorance.
Don't fall into the liberal trap of assuming you know more than other people, just because you are "just so smart," in case you are thinking so. If not, don't worry about it!
Government funding has brought some good things to the world (such as mentioned above, and include nuclear power and satellites) but that's not withstanding the vast majority of technological invention that is done without government intervention, and the "unseen" that is NOT invented, due to government interference. See Frederic Bastiat, "That which is seen, and that which is not seen, http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.htm
Modern medicine, the exponential ability to grow, harvest, preserve, and transport food, and ever increasing living standards matter of factly are a result of capitalism (more specifically, the respect of private property rights) in the last two hundred years. So yes, the fact that most of the people on the planet are alive today is a result of that. If you understood anything about economic development you'd understand that. Sure there are "leaps" in technology, which are often funded through governments (such as the American Civil War, World War II) that advanced Medicine by bounds, but the overall vast majority of advancement of all industries is done through private means. This is not a point that can be argued, nor should even be attempted to on this medium. Instead of hating people for "greed," knowledgeable people would thank those who are "out to make a buck" for their, historically speaking, high standards of living.
The above post is a result of what happens when governments pay people to get liberal arts educations at State schools. Consider yourself indoctrinated. Sigh.
p.s. thanks for contributing to the topic on the difficulty to sign into the ceremony of chaos.
as i told you, i dont care much about theories and im not much into this subject, all i know is what is see changed over the years. i actually despite all these things, its all i see ppl talking at tv all day long over the entire world, and talking about thoeries never ever solved a single thing, only a big waste of time and money.
i dont think capitalism brought anything to this world that wasnt bound to happen. we had things before capitalism and things was bound to happen because its evolution. technology is not bound to any system, its evolution, like the evolution of species. i actually think ppl invented and brought more to the world when they were constrained by communism or socialism than in capitalism, now its the biggest farse with this false feeling of freedom and the majority (not all) went stupid, lazy, indolent over decades... education, morality, respect for human being, politeness, freedom... all are fake today. anything that kills an individual mind, creativity, freedom and spirit in the end is happening today and started since capitalism/socialism/communism. you guys see it as evolution of individuals/persons (not talking technologically) but personally i dont think the majority were more dead nowadays than ever. ppl are too deep into this to realize.
some ppl like to remind who we were in the past and what we learned from them, like what we learned from greeks or chinese who lived on this planet hundreds if not thousands of years ago... those were free people. free today means nothing, ppl have not been more enslaved today than ever. absolutely nothing is changed, its the same thing repeated over and over but now people are proud of it. slaves were wearing chains, now ppl are proud of their necklaces and hand watches. they were strangled with ropes now they are proud to wear ties, they hated slavery now they are proud to work for someone else 10-12 hours a day to achieve something that is always a step away, like the carrot always moving. slaves were kept in cages, now they are proud to be in a cubical. there are tons of example like these, we are nothing but pigs/cows/chickens in farms but now with this new feeling of freedom, like you can actually change something... lol.
well, there is much to discuss like real people, not like machines repeating what others have been told, but its not the thread or the place.
Guys, can you please take the economic and political theory to another thread? You're going to get this locked while the problem is still going on. Thx.
You're going to get this locked while the problem is still going on. Thx.
yesterday i managed to sign a lot more than usual, even completed the 5+2 quest. but i dont think its ncwest who actually solved anything and i admire your hope for a solution from ncwest but mine is dead.
Back on topic, I heard NCSoft handed down bans for this yesterday.
I strongly doubt that.
It's been pretty good on July 31th and on the first days of August (I could sign up easily both on main and the box), but yesterday it was back to being crowded. I missed registration a few times because it was instantly full, and every other time when I got in, the arena was almost dead due to all the afk'ers.
Normally, when there are live players in the arena, there are at least a couple of lvl 99s among them (so I don't even bother to fight). Yesterday, due to getting into dead arenas, I managed to win it 3 times (if you can call it a "win"): on main, on an alt, and on the buffbox with awesome non-elemented Requiem duals (that time it took me whole 5 minutes to kill all the 17 afk'ers). I don't believe in coincidences, so, I assume someone was back to clogging the tournament with dozens of auto-signing AFK bots, same as before.
dont believe that all afkers are bots. i sign 2 characters, that if i manage to do that, usually one or none. believe me, i dont like wasting my time in there, fighting 'parties' of 99 or surprised by some dagger who was in hide the whole time till near the end and so on. thats why i prefer to stay afk, i get my fame quest done and some coins. from time to time i check to see whats going on and yes i've seen times when the whole room was afk and half time already gone and i won but thats rare.
Back on topic, I heard NCSoft handed down bans for this yesterday. Looking for Juji confirmation that they did finally look into it and ban toons.
Yes, we investigated the situation and banned accounts that were abusing the registration for Ceremony of Chaos. Going forward, we will continue to monitor this issue.
I didn't imply that "all afkers are bots": yes on "good" days you can occasionally get into a dead CoC arena. It's ok as long as people sign up manually.
But on "bad" days, when CoC is instantly full, and you can't sign at all yet you can see most of arenas are filled with afkers, it means something must be wrong over there.
Yes, we investigated the situation and banned accounts that were abusing the registration for Ceremony of Chaos. Going forward, we will continue to monitor this issue.
Yes, we investigated the situation and banned accounts that were abusing the registration for Ceremony of Chaos. Going forward, we will continue to monitor this issue.
Thanks Juji, I think this is your 1st post saying something positive about the way the game is suppose to work instead of excuses
batrus talk so good about no bot and legit for his clan (h.oe) and they have alt tagged autosigning even... if u go at rune oly managed u can find MSPOPINS , this alt is ALLWAYS afk and never misss 1 round , even last month when all server had the problem, and yesterday this toon was "hided" inside the warrior guild .
Yes, we investigated the situation and banned accounts that were abusing the registration for Ceremony of Chaos. Going forward, we will continue to monitor this issue.
Can you investigate situation of HF and GF bots (all servers)?
They are abusing too.
Yes, we investigated the situation and banned accounts that were abusing the registration for Ceremony of Chaos. Going forward, we will continue to monitor this issue.
Yes, we investigated the situation and banned accounts that were abusing the registration for Ceremony of Chaos. Going forward, we will continue to monitor this issue.
If you believe this let me punch you in the face so you can leave the teeth you loose under the pillow for the tooth fairy! She is more likely to come then NCwest is to do anything about the exploitation of COC!
Normally, when there are live players in the arena, there are at least a couple of lvl 99s among them (so I don't even bother to fight). Yesterday, due to getting into dead arenas, I managed to win it 3 times (if you can call it a "win"): on main, on an alt, and on the buffbox with awesome non-elemented Requiem duals (that time it took me whole 5 minutes to kill all the 17 afk'ers).
A nice win I had was, I had the window minimized like usual for most of the time, happened to check it right as one lone live guy in immortal was beginning to attack me, but didn't have to do anything because in a few seconds he died from the mobs that spawn and I won lol
Yes, we investigated the situation and banned accounts that were abusing the registration for Ceremony of Chaos. Going forward, we will continue to monitor this issue.
juji can pls stop those ppl to destroy more and more coc? last month icex was making full of afk it so all server was unable to sign , and now this , hes n#15 from hp bar but his toon have n#1
The only "proof" I've seen from this number thing is that it happens to people who are CoC hero
yes i think about that also , but since i know how u and him play , i cant be surprised on some new cheat. and i tried to click on his hp bar too but i was bugged cause i was getting n#1 (dead) , and not him . (yes i use to target from hp bar too since i dont have a "list" )
anyway whats the "drama" if ppl ask to gm to check if are a bug? ... scared if a gm check ?
Yes, we investigated the situation and banned accounts that were abusing the registration for Ceremony of Chaos. Going forward, we will continue to monitor this issue.
Alright, thank you for the confirmation. I'm glad it's being looked at more closely.
I think it's funny you even brought me up, I dont do CoC often at all and Icex complains about the same issue, everyone knows nova is overflowing the CoC this is just more of your propoganda. Secondly are you seriously crying about scripts in coc?
Angriena trying for CoC and hero on script nonstop - you cant lethal him as he fd's even while you are in hide, you can't shadow flash him cuz he fd as soon as you click it, you can't clone on him cuz he fd as soon as you click. Yet it lets you burn the skill he uses the same thing in oly
IZee - same thing
and since we are on the bot issue and you trying to call people out im going to do the same
Psychotic - known bot heavy on scripts instantly all over all healers no matter where they are
Sochi - i think this dude doesn't touch his keyboard at all, just watch his toon the guy has priority targeting on certian classes as well. Ports into places shooting before his toon is loaded but thats just next target and badass reflex's right?
Speer / Melty / Blackula - and his entire bot train constantly at Gianak ya nothing being done about these when everyone sees exactly what is going on
Ashess / Tears ect. ect.
Do I need to name the entire nova clan?
You have a pocket gm now be a good boy and go back to using it bot
I think it's funny you even brought me up, I dont do CoC often at all and Icex complains about the same issue, everyone knows nova is overflowing the CoC this is just more of your propoganda. Secondly are you seriously crying about scripts in coc?
Angriena trying for CoC and hero on script nonstop - you cant lethal him as he fd's even while you are in hide, you can't shadow flash him cuz he fd as soon as you click it, you can't clone on him cuz he fd as soon as you click. Yet it lets you burn the skill he uses the same thing in oly
IZee - same thing
and since we are on the bot issue and you trying to call people out im going to do the same
Psychotic - known bot heavy on scripts instantly all over all healers no matter where they are
Sochi - i think this dude doesn't touch his keyboard at all, just watch his toon the guy has priority targeting on certian classes as well. Ports into places shooting before his toon is loaded but thats just next target and badass reflex's right?
Speer / Melty / Blackula - and his entire bot train constantly at Gianak ya nothing being done about these when everyone sees exactly what is going on
Ashess / Tears ect. ect.
Do I need to name the entire nova clan?
You have a pocket gm now be a good boy and go back to using it bot
First of all, where did I bring anyone up? But if we want to talk about scripted, then Icex is uber scripted and also one of the largest botters in the history of the game. I don't really give a **** who bots and who doesn't, what I care about is that on some nights ppl can't even sign into coc because the arenas are full of afk toons. So go cry somewhere else, I'm busy trying to get the coc issue addressed.
its remind me war for bot train spots geno vs nova, looks like nova lost here and start pettion war again
Well, if I could kill the bots I would, but that's not an option. I don't run around petitioning enemies for botting, but I do take issue with not being able to sign and then seeing 2 arenas full of afk toons. I don't really care who is doing this, it needs to stop.
Same thing happened a couple mths ago when Dr "Forrest Gump" Raddi started losing. Nova started using the bots, big fuss was raised on forums,
bla bla bla.
Same old story dude. No one gives a **** anymore. People are leaving the game left right & center, headed for greener pastures. Incompetency at its finest, ty NC.
To sum it all up Retri, if you got a prob. getting ur deuce mysterious coins, complain in ur clanchat and you'll get a fix. Not gonna find any help here.
Same thing happened a couple mths ago when Dr "Forrest Gump" Raddi started losing. Nova started using the bots, big fuss was raised on forums,
bla bla bla.
Same old story dude. No one gives a **** anymore. People are leaving the game left right & center, headed for greener pastures. Incompetency at its finest, ty NC.
To sum it all up Retri, if you got a prob. getting ur deuce mysterious coins, complain in ur clanchat and you'll get a fix. Not gonna find any help here.
Actually, Raddi lost that month because he couldn't sign, nor could the guys trying to help him. I'm well aware there are a couple of Nova farming that thing, just like there are FS doing it too (along with some BR clans). I don't give a **** who it is, they need to ban people again to discourage this ****. Considering no one can bot open field without catching a ban, more and more people will resort to farming this thing unless regular bans are handed down. I'd rather have open field bots, at least people can kill those if they are in the way.
Friend has a nice compilation vid of Angriena (chronos server, Nova clan) from the past 2 weeks taken from 4-5 different CoC matches. She's running a premo script. The fake death timing a fraction of second after anyone hits any skill is godly. Not to mention the toon spent 6 mths in pagan darkness with Paukaka & co. botting it up.
I watched a match about 10 mins ago and witnessed for myself.
All fine & noble of you to come here and preach about playing legit. But yet you stay in Nova and ride the cheaters coattails?.
hmm...
And yes, raddi lost. That was my point. The following mth when he had a big lead from the early going Nova had no need to load up the auto-signers. Hence, the randoms were again able to sign and the complaining stopped.
Now, once again Angriena *Nova is in a tough race with icex I believe. The auto-signers flooding CoC again. Sure its pure coincidence or its purely FS. The same FS clan that has collapsed and has about 3 active members.