Gonna have to disagree with both Vince and Dreacke.
The argument that everyone makes in favor of Seraph is based on the attack type bonus of Seraph Hvy. Mainly the "Skill Attack +6%" bonus.
So here is the thing, that bonus is not clearly defined. It either:
Increases Skill Power by 6%.
or
Increases P Attack by 6% when using a skill.
In either case, it is essentially worthless because of how tank skill damage works. First, P. Attack is irrelevant in tank skill damage. Second, while skill power does have an effect, 6% is too small to make a difference. Here are some things to consider in regards to this:
When my tank was pure offensive build (131 STR) I tested P. Attack in relation to skill damage. I compared my +12 Bless R95 Avenger (837 P. Attack) to a +4 Apoc Cutter (519 P. Attack). I didn't write down the exact numbers but full buffed the P. Attack difference was over 2k BUT the difference in skill damage was less than 100 (on average), in fact on rare occasions during the test, the Apoc hit HARDER.
Assuming the bonus is +6% Skill Damage it is easy to see how this is worthless as well. A tanks most powerful skill is Justice Punishment. At its max level (98) it has a skill power of 25,884. Increasing skill power by 6% would make its power 27,437, an increase of about 1550. Because of how tank skills work, this will equal very little real damage increase (assuming this is even how the bonus works). Think about it this way, all other factors being equal, how much more damage does Justice Punishment do at level 94 as opposed to level 98 (skill power increases by 9%). The answer is, hardly any (and certainly not 9% more damage).
So in conclusion; the Seraph Hvy attack type bonus of "Skill Attack +6%" DOES NOT equal 6% more damage to mobs or 6% more damage in PvP. In reality, because of how tank skill damage is calculated, the bonus is so insignificant that random damage variation is sometimes greater (or lesser).
So, to answer the OPs question, IMO I would take a +6 TW set over a +3/+4 Seraph set ANY day of the week and twice on Sundays. Because:
Higher P Def, better MP regen, better MP management, and essential equal HP Bonus > +1 str, Skill Attack +6%
EDIT:
I switched from +6 Seraph Hvy to +6 Eternal Hvy and I am never looking back. In the real world R99 Hvy is better than R95 Hvy.
Gonna have to disagree with both Vince and Dreacke.
The argument that everyone makes in favor of Seraph is based on the attack type bonus of Seraph Hvy. Mainly the "Skill Attack +6%" bonus.
So here is the thing, that bonus is not clearly defined. It either:
Increases Skill Power by 6%.
or
Increases P Attack by 6% when using a skill.
In either case, it is essentially worthless because of how tank skill damage works. First, P. Attack is irrelevant in tank skill damage. Second, while skill power does have an effect, 6% is too small to make a difference. Here are some things to consider in regards to this:
When my tank was pure offensive build (131 STR) I tested P. Attack in relation to skill damage. I compared my +12 Bless R95 Avenger (837 P. Attack) to a +4 Apoc Cutter (519 P. Attack). I didn't write down the exact numbers but full buffed the P. Attack difference was over 2k BUT the difference in skill damage was less than 100 (on average), in fact on rare occasions during the test, the Apoc hit HARDER.
Assuming the bonus is +6% Skill Damage it is easy to see how this is worthless as well. A tanks most powerful skill is Justice Punishment. At its max level (98) it has a skill power of 25,884. Increasing skill power by 6% would make its power 27,437, an increase of about 1550. Because of how tank skills work, this will equal very little real damage increase (assuming this is even how the bonus works). Think about it this way, all other factors being equal, how much more damage does Justice Punishment do at level 94 as opposed to level 98 (skill power increases by 9%). The answer is, hardly any (and certainly not 9% more damage).
So in conclusion; the Seraph Hvy attack type bonus of "Skill Attack +6%" DOES NOT equal 6% more damage to mobs or 6% more damage in PvP. In reality, because of how tank skill damage is calculated, the bonus is so insignificant that random damage variation is sometimes greater (or lesser).
So, to answer the OPs question, IMO I would take a +6 TW set over a +3/+4 Seraph set ANY day of the week and twice on Sundays. Because:
Higher P Def, better MP regen, better MP management, and essential equal HP Bonus > +1 str, Skill Attack +6%
EDIT:
I switched from +6 Seraph Hvy to +6 Eternal Hvy and I am never looking back. In the real world R99 Hvy is better than R95 Hvy.
You are in end game setup is another world. No reason to work in TW set +6. Way better is seraph +4 now and in a near future +6. As well yes, I could use eternal heavy +6 instead of seraph, but never eternal +4.
Make a tw set will just expend adenas to never sell such set. Depend also the tanker and game style, but seraph +6 > Eternal +4.
I think that seraph +4 have all the def u need, mp management? olympiad? ^~
You are in end game setup is another world. No reason to work in TW set +6. Way better is seraph +4 now and in a near future +6. As well yes, I could use eternal heavy +6 instead of seraph, but never eternal +4.
Make a tw set will just expend adenas to never sell such set. Depend also the tanker and game style, but seraph +6 > Eternal +4.
I think that seraph +4 have all the def u need, mp management? olympiad? ^~
As I already stated, +6 TW is better than +4 Seraph, period (which is what the OP asked). Additionally, with how much TW is flooding the market making +6 TW set is relatively easy. In fact, on Bartz I think that you could probably make/buy a +6 TW for same price as +4 Seraph.
I also find it ironic that you said that +6 Seraph > +4 Eternal because that is essentially the same idea I put forth when I said +6 TW > +4 Seraph.....
As far as MP management is concerned.......real tanks use skills as well as hate to hold agro; just saying.
not going to post again my gear but for my set up my +7/8 bless seraph set is much better then the R99 crap bonus.. and the 6% does help when you can add more end game gear on top of it..
also my +16 Bless Cutter disagrees with the patt doesn't matter statement but that isn't relevant here..
regardless the OP is ofc fine to use TW Hvy until he has an R95 or R99 +6 set cause the MP bonus from a +6 set is a must have for any tank period.
As I already stated, +6 TW is better than +4 Seraph, period (which is what the OP asked). Additionally, with how much TW is flooding the market making +6 TW set is relatively easy. In fact, on Bartz I think that you could probably make/buy a +6 TW for same price as +4 Seraph.
I also find it ironic that you said that +6 Seraph > +4 Eternal because that is essentially the same idea I put forth when I said +6 TW > +4 Seraph.....
As far as MP management is concerned.......real tanks use skills as well as hate to hold agro; just saying.
The guy asked us one advice... :P Do u think he will use tw til get eternal?
Also I Said seraph +6 > Eternal +4 because the bonus are better (at least for me in shillien templar) and the def is pretty good too (no only for mp regen). I don't think Tw will have any market for re-sell.
not going to post again my gear but for my set up my +7/8 bless seraph set is much better then the R99 crap bonus.. and the 6% does help when you can add more end game gear on top of it..
also my +16 Bless Cutter disagrees with the patt doesn't matter statement but that isn't relevant here..
regardless the OP is ofc fine to use TW Hvy until he has an R95 or R99 +6 set cause the MP bonus from a +6 set is a must have for any tank period.
My argument is, essentially, that P Attack does not matter because the increase in skill damage is so small. I will admit that it DOES increase skill damage but, like I said, the amount is abysmally small in relation to P. Attack increase. This is off topic but I want to put it out there so tanks don't make the same mistake I did and waste billions on OEing a weapon in the hopes of seeing a monstrous return in damage.
Here is a quick test I did to illustrate my point:
First Test: Event Req Sword, no SA, no Element, weapon P. Attack 422, total P. Attack w/buffs 2382. Skill used, Justice Punishment, no SS, skill crits excluded.
50 Attacks, average damage = 340
Second Test: Short Sword, weapon P. Attack 8, total P. Attack w/buffs 246. Justice Punishment used again, no SS, skill crits excluded.
50 Attacks, average damage = 272.5
So there you have it, an INCREASE in player P. Attack of 968.2% yields an increase in damage of only 24.7%!!!!!!!!
So, here is my question, does your +16 Bless Apoc Cutter increase your total character P. Attack by 900%+ as opposed to using a Standard +4 Apoc Cutter? I know it doesn't, in fact, I would guess that it only increases your total P. Attack by around 150% (if that). I would also bet that your skill damage isn't even 10% higher.
I am not trying to be a **** because, like I said, I wasted a lot of adena trying to max my P Attack. I am just saying that it isn't worth it because of how tank skill damage is calculated. Do some test and lets see what you come up with.
The guy asked us one advice... :P Do u think he will use tw til get eternal?
Also I Said seraph +6 > Eternal +4 because the bonus are better (at least for me in shillien templar) and the def is pretty good too (no only for mp regen). I don't think Tw will have any market for re-sell.
HUH? Can you please explain why this (Seraph Hvy Attack Type):
STR + 3, CON - 2
Critical Damage + 281, Resistance to Hold + 10
HP + 511, Skill P. Atk. + 6%
P. Atk. + 214, Resistance to attributes + 15, P. Def. additional + 7%
Is so much better than this (Eternal Hvy Attack Type):
STR +3, CON -1
Critical Damage + 298; Resistance to Hold + 10
HP + 521; Chance of absorbing 2% of damage
P. Atk. + 246, Resistance to attributes + 15, P. Def. additional + 7%
The diference of dmg between those skill power and no addition is ~1%. Now you can say, adding everything etc etc it's good, it's still 1% more dmg not being widely affected by p atk.
Which means for each 5k dmg you do, you add around 50 dmg to it. And eventually pvp armor > anything not pvp.
since OP asks ima just gonna say this. stay with the +6 tw till u hit 99, buy/craft R99 set and periodically +6 it. save time and adena, since adena doesnt come easy anymore.
The diference of dmg between those skill power and no addition is ~1%. Now you can say, adding everything etc etc it's good, it's still 1% more dmg not being widely affected by p atk.
Which means for each 5k dmg you do, you add around 50 dmg to it. And eventually pvp armor > anything not pvp.
what pvp though ? for pve it all rocks baby oh yeah!!
What i want to ask i am sigel shilien 91, set twilight defense +60 atributes,+3, and was 1 shot by a dagger in ceremony of chaos, having defensive buffs, iron aura, talismans active/pasive, and it wrote i received 123 damage from player but nothing about a lethal strike, just that, and how i died? He got lethal? i don' understand, if he got lethal why it didn't wrote, player got lethal strike,or mortal strike?i have 30k hp 12k+ cp.
What i want to ask i am sigel shilien 91, set twilight defense +60 atributes,+3, and was 1 shot by a dagger in ceremony of chaos, having defensive buffs, iron aura, talismans active/pasive, and it wrote i received 123 damage from player but nothing about a lethal strike, just that, and how i died? He got lethal? i don' understand, if he got lethal why it didn't wrote, player got lethal strike,or mortal strike?i have 30k hp 12k+ cp.