Clan hall fees are going 2.5 mil a week to 50 mil a week? No listing on how much all the skills turned on will be by if I guess it would probably me around 100 mil a week.
How you expect legit clans to pour a 100 mil a week into a clan warehouse when your not adding any value to it?
100 mil a week or even 50 mil a week is excessive. When the ranking system was still up only maybe 15 clans have more than 2 billion adena on hand which only give a clan about 40 weeks of clan fees before they lose their clan hall.
Making 100 mil a week is this bad economy where drops are rare, raid bosses drop 1 or 2 items and everything that is NPC regulated is overpriced IE SA's on 95 and 99 weapons. Where does this magical adena appear from?
Do you realize this will kill the game this one thing can ruin L2? You reducing ways to make adena but increases ways to pull it out the game are you asking people to buy adena to maintain what they have?
Chill out dude, if I can easily make 100m a week (I'm sure most people do, not something special) then I'm sure a whole clan can make 100m a week. Plus it is good because so many dead clans have a clan hall in their possesion, they have to pay up now if they want to keep it or let it go.
I love how people say its oh so easy to make 100 mil a week. Then why isn't everyone running around with expensive things?
100 mil a week into the economy this is simple economics. 100 mil a week will not be going back into the economy it will be disappearing which means you have to bring 100 mil into the economy a week to keep the balance IE adena drops or drops sold to the shop.
Now rethink it.
I believe there are 40 clan halls now will be 50 meaning every week 5 billion adena is sucked out of the economy. 5 billion needs to put into the economy every week to just maintain this new balance. However under level 84 nothing drops anymore but adena meaning you can't farm with lower chars.
Oh lets do raids wait NCSoft in its infinite wisdom killed all the bosses cause you need 98 people to just enter the raid boss, not even the top two clans in NA can do that Nova/SH, so who can have 98 people on at the same time to do a raid that drops 1 or 2 items that even spilt over 98 becomes maybe 1 mil each?
NcSoft is artificially crashing the economy with many of the changes.
I totally agree slycutter. I only know 1 legit ally in my server that cud bring that number of toons for the new raids, and i not talk of N*** 30- 40 ppl +60 toons auto mode...We farm now epic raids weekly since many many months and since we have known that this ch super tax will come,we stocked up cwh for it. But im sure 95% of the other pve clan wasnt able to do this...
NCsoft sees the adena"pool" has grown too big and knows excatly that the perma botting clans + random bots r responsible for this inflation ( look patchnotes: reduce drop for high bot areas..seriously?). And what they do, is punishing even the last legit hard working clans to pay for this...
Someone super smart mentioned thats its simple that each member give 1m per week lol. So if a clanleader has 150 real member he suppose to make a checklist each month that each member mailed him 1,3333 mil,right...As good clanleaders know: the organize work in clan is not direct proportional to its members size - its exponential. Organize a small clan with 50 real ppl is no compare to 100 or 150.
Sure he has time to check that he got all 150 mails in months and easily find time to pm all who missed and sanction em for missing 1,33m... that beside all the new raids now that comes on top of all frint,easy isti/octa, epic octa/istina, tauti easy+extreme organize work...
Sure members in a good clan drop some cash in cwh here and then. But i can garantee its not fair over a longer term,since there is always members who give alot more ,and some give nothing..simply too much efforts for the benfit to keep controlling this.
Im not worried bout our clan to loose ch ( its a big adena waste for ncsoft policy failure again),but i hate this ncsoft policy for all our pve friendclans who might loose their ch over this...
Enough said.
So many things which drain millions/billions of adenas in a matter of seconds (talisman upgrades, skills enchanting) and from only one person, not a whole clan, and noone bats an eye. But 100m from a 100 ppl clan is such a big deal. I guess if the problem doesn't hit your door, you don't care... Anyway, I don't think anyone proposed that you get 100 mails from each of your clan members but I guess a clan that is big enough to have a clan hall, must do some raids too. So when you get your drops from them (you will get eventually) just keep 100m off of it and then split the rest to your members. If you don't even do a simple clan activity like this then there is no point of having a clan hall imo.
Well its bad as it is good.The increase if about 10x not 20x.
Our clan is not so big (about 20-25 ppl active), we have got Rune CH and atm its consuming arund 7,5mil/week with all functions turned on (remember they have increased the taxes before by 5x).With this new change it will consume over 50mil/week, we can cover that easy, no problem, but as things are going, I`m sure there will be clans that will have problems paying for a CH.
Fortress is a good clan hall for those I guess or any of these ridable ones?!?.. dunno what NC devs were thinking rly.
PS. Are there some new benefits from the clan halls since we`ll be paying 10x the amount?!?
OMG 100m?!? seriously you are crying about 100m? are we back in C2? its so easy to make money now with all the raids/mobs, you can easily make 1b a week w/o bots.
1. Octavis/istina, even if you get the crappy drop aka bear/unbind you can sell them and make 100m a week easy.
2. Raiders crossroad mob that drop 10m+ a mob, farm 10 of them and GJ your clan hall is paid!
Those are easy task a clan/group can do by themselves, If you cant make 100m a week then you obviously too dumb to run a clan.
my cp does istina/oct every week thats 3 times a week and we get at least 2 shirts per week and other drops i make as a single person in a 7 man group cp only doing those raids around 150mil per week. come on man.
martelx is correct - proper activity in a clan and clanhall is safe.
unfortuantely too many ppl wanna be a "boss" and arent prepared to merge/find newer clans, so the server gets fractured and then when NCDaft does things like this, so many ppl QQ about the cost rising.... recruit or die, or become clanhall less.....simples
my cp does istina/oct every week thats 3 times a week and we get at least 2 shirts per week and other drops....
totally bs !
We do those with the cp from the beginning of the last update and had so far only 1 istina shirt.
not spoken of the BEAR and useless unbindscrolls
The adenadrain now is too much imho.
Hunting with your cp on mobs of your lvl range give you about 1 - 2k if your lucky.
The most raidbosses drop too much air.
How many clans are there with 80 - 100+ active members on the server? I bet you can count it on your single hand.
Servers became dead because there is not enough ppl playing.
Merging clans is not always a good solution.
There are pros and cons binded to that option and mostly you will have more cons
I love how people say its oh so easy to make 100 mil a week. Then why isn't everyone running around with expensive things?
100 mil a week into the economy this is simple economics. 100 mil a week will not be going back into the economy it will be disappearing which means you have to bring 100 mil into the economy a week to keep the balance IE adena drops or drops sold to the shop.
Now rethink it.
I believe there are 40 clan halls now will be 50 meaning every week 5 billion adena is sucked out of the economy. 5 billion needs to put into the economy every week to just maintain this new balance. However under level 84 nothing drops anymore but adena meaning you can't farm with lower chars.
Oh lets do raids wait NCSoft in its infinite wisdom killed all the bosses cause you need 98 people to just enter the raid boss, not even the top two clans in NA can do that Nova/SH, so who can have 98 people on at the same time to do a raid that drops 1 or 2 items that even spilt over 98 becomes maybe 1 mil each?
NcSoft is artificially crashing the economy with many of the changes.
I totally agree with SlyCutter
If those 100mil include selling things to player, you're not adding 100million to the adena pool of the server, it's just changing hands.
Those 50m per clan mean that every clan should make 50m more of adena and add it to the adena pool. In other words, pick 50m adena from mobs, or make that money from items sold to npcs and such. Because those 50m, they are not changing hands, they are disappearing.
I myself am already happy enough if I don't end a week in DEFICIT, to begin with...there's just too many adena sinks (soulshots, GKs, Clan Hall maintenance, Gemstones to make a clan flag etc.) and the possibilities to make adena are ever smaller...
Someone said something about Unbind Scrolls, Gainak's Nerva Orc Merchant, BEAR...dude....
Unbinds are every day cheaper and cheaper. The quantity of bound items of the server has no way to increase anymore, and the quantity of scrolls that remove that condition from an item increases every day, so do the maths.
The orc from Gainak drops 5kk, not 10kk, it was nerfed. And the respawn time is something like 30 minutes now if I'm not mistaken, and they don't appear everywhere to begin with. Good luck counting on that.
Oh well, LF CC Runs 24/7 CP, maybe sell some eternal stuff around, crystalize some to keep the prices high in the auction, sell some to an NPC to introduce some money in the economy...nah, who am I fooling? I'll be happy if a glove drops.
martelx is correct - proper activity in a clan and clanhall is safe.
unfortuantely too many ppl wanna be a "boss" and arent prepared to merge/find newer clans, so the server gets fractured and then when NCDaft does things like this, so many ppl QQ about the cost rising.... recruit or die, or become clanhall less.....simples
I do kind of agree with the merge issue.
I don't think the 98 people is an issue, per se. It should not be an issue for lower clans for things like Anakim and Lilith. I don't understand why some don't just merge the clans into one really big clan and do the content, but you cannot force people to do these things or pester them with it just because you think it's a decent idea.
All these PvErs, and there doesn't exist one large, forcused, organized PvE clan on the server... Which only makes it harder for everyone in that segment of the player base to progress.
get a castle , put it dark , profit . if im not wrong with valiance they deleted the tax campaign (not sure) , but if are true u get FREE adena just by holding a castle
9 castles 50 clan halls I am now safe to assume math is not your best subject.
Merger clans means there would be about 30 - 40 vacant clan halls on the server. What is the point of all the clan halls if you cannot fill them?
Merging clans very rarely works out since clans have different ideals IE some allow botting others don't. Some want pvp some dont. Some are Euro, Some are Greek, some are NA so merging is not a solution.
Even nova cannot get 98 people together to do a siege and they are the top clan on our servers what does that tell you about them doing raids?
QQ for people not owning castles to subsidize the rent
ONLY 9 CASTLE LORDS RECEIVE MONEY there are 41 clans that won't receive income from a castle are you that dumb?
Diego thinks they receive clan hall fees but I as a castle lord in the past know that is not true. It was stated a long time ago clan hall fees are adena sinks they are not put back into the economy by QA Mikaeyl I am spelling that wrong I am sure.
QQ for people not owning castles to subsidize the rent
ONLY 9 CASTLE LORDS RECEIVE MONEY are you that dumb?
if castle is dark then yes. they got some money. especially if dark castles is rune/aden/giran (mamon towns) castle get money. light castle = 0 income.
if castle is dark then yes. they got some money. especially if dark castles is rune/aden/giran (mamon towns) castle get money. light castle = 0 income.
"some" money ? , i got from my alt clan (chronos) having goddard , 2.4bil first week and 1.8bil 2nd week (but we lost it) , also do raid , like orc raid get pvp win the pvp and kill raid .. if u get 1 pvp stone u got 1y of ch adena , we even got full weap.. , ppl here is showing u all a lot way to make EASY money and no1 saying to do not legit. , find ur way and all will be ok .
The reason for this devs (this dev team... I believe they never played this game to be honest) up the price of C.H fee is simple:
"Make ur clan active and put that ammount of money there or another clan will take ur place".
This works? Maybe in korea, but the truth is that l2 had better days. If I agree with this change? NO, IS RIDICULOUS. Everyday this game find a reason to piss off legit players.
yes there is so many dead clan with just an alt toons holding the clan hall. hope it this rent raise can clear up some spaces so that an active clan can enter.
100m is of course not that easy amount but a live clan can always figure out how to sort it out.
"some" money ? , i got from my alt clan (chronos) having goddard , 2.4bil first week and 1.8bil 2nd week (but we lost it) , also do raid , like orc raid get pvp win the pvp and kill raid .. if u get 1 pvp stone u got 1y of ch adena , we even got full weap.. , ppl here is showing u all a lot way to make EASY money and no1 saying to do not legit. , find ur way and all will be ok .
castle was dark or light? we have light castle, not in naia. but anw. 0% taxes = 0 adena income. or i'm wrong?. dark castle = 30% income. castle on npc 15%..
and other thing. like this peoples can get normal cwh from alt/dead/bot clans. check for example naia clan clans who have halls. half of them dead bot or box clans. or clans lvl 4-5 with 1 person inside.. so why the hell they need ch? to farm GE? buy provisional one. 20kk/month., and for active clan with good online it's not so hard to put 1-2kk every few days in to cwh. even after clan events sell stuff. and put some adena in cwh is not so hard. just one more thread for ocean of tears..
Come on guys, if a clan can't make 50kk it is not a clan.
How much are 50kk? 25 players x 2kk?
Simple math - 3 days doing mithril mines quest (700k), 10 mins each day = 3.1kk. No drop, no luck, no chances, no buffs needed...can it be easier?
For sure I don't like to see clans with 10 people holding CH.
Well, if you don't have 25 active people, I'm not sure you can call yourself serious clan which needs CH.
castle was dark or light? we have light castle, not in naia. but anw. 0% taxes = 0 adena income. or i'm wrong?. dark castle = 30% income. castle on npc 15%..
and other thing. like this peoples can get normal cwh from alt/dead/bot clans. check for example naia clan clans who have halls. half of them dead bot or box clans. or clans lvl 4-5 with 1 person inside.. so why the hell they need ch? to farm GE? buy provisional one. 20kk/month., and for active clan with good online it's not so hard to put 1-2kk every few days in to cwh. even after clan events sell stuff. and put some adena in cwh is not so hard. just one more thread for ocean of tears..
20 mil a month isnt hard
400 mil a month can become a burden. That is what is getting raised to 400 mil a month that is 20x what is now.
Sure for power clans that isn't an issue but for regular clans you have months you have high activity and months of low activity it ebs and flows.
Someone suggesting collecting from members of a clan that be almost a full time job keeping track of that. Nevermind what do you do to people who don't pay kick them from clan? It is not like all clans will be charging dues some clans have 100 billion adena just laying around but not every clan is like that.
yes there is so many dead clan with just an alt toons holding the clan hall. hope it this rent raise can clear up some spaces so that an active clan can enter.
100m is of course not that easy amount but a live clan can always figure out how to sort it out.
QFT - time to get rid of the CH squatters and the pretender clans like SlyCutters who cant get a castle and cant afford to pay their mortgage.
Lol, Maybe slycutter can get his players to fish and take the hotsprings CH.
how can be non stupid this question? lol , ofc it was dark .
btw here ppl just cry and im sure dont read any info from ppl how to make money (as clan) , ppl just like to find everytime excuse instead of work (they bot , they buy adena , i have no gear and w/e excuse .. )
do u think for a second how many clan w/o CH are happy about this? they now have a chance to get it from who will not be able to keep it . ( just 1 example , if im not wrong ND from my server chronos dont have ch and they are a good clan , u think they dont like to get a ch from any alt clan or from any clan who will not be able to keep it? )
do u want something in l2? work for it , fight for it , or just sit in town crying
People just don't seem to understand the bottom line here...
-Suppose the total adena a server has is X (the sum of the adena of all players, vaults, clan vaults etc. etc.)
-between 2.5 and 5 billions will be removed from X each week. This means that to keep the economy in balance, the same amount must be added to the pool. How? By doing quests, picking adena from mobs, selling things to npc etc.
-Adena you get from trades/dark castle etc. don't add to X, they were in the hands of a player and now are in yours, so the total adena of the server is still the same.
-2.5~5bi billions in raw adena drops or sales to NPCs (not players) or quests per week, the legit way, and not considering the other adena sinks such as GK, skill enchants, auction house stuff, item broker etc. might not be so simple to keep up with, see? And if X keeps diminishing, the economy will get tighter and tighter.
People just don't seem to understand the bottom line here...
-Suppose the total adena a server has is X (the sum of the adena of all players, vaults, clan vaults etc. etc.)
-between 2.5 and 5 billions will be removed from X each week. This means that to keep the economy in balance, the same amount must be added to the pool. How? By doing quests, picking adena from mobs, selling things to npc etc.
-Adena you get from trades/dark castle etc. don't add to X, they were in the hands of a player and now are in yours, so the total adena of the server is still the same.
-2.5~5bi billions in raw adena drops or sales to NPCs (not players) or quests per week, the legit way, and not considering the other adena sinks such as GK, skill enchants, auction house stuff, item broker etc. might not be so simple to keep up with, see? And if X keeps diminishing, the economy will get tighter and tighter.
who cares? novas can make a bil per week legit way ROFLMAO!
omg novas can make a bil per week legit way ROFLMAO
I love how people say its oh so easy to make 100 mil a week. Then why isn't everyone running around with expensive things?
100 mil a week into the economy this is simple economics. 100 mil a week will not be going back into the economy it will be disappearing which means you have to bring 100 mil into the economy a week to keep the balance IE adena drops or drops sold to the shop.
Now rethink it.
I believe there are 40 clan halls now will be 50 meaning every week 5 billion adena is sucked out of the economy. 5 billion needs to put into the economy every week to just maintain this new balance. However under level 84 nothing drops anymore but adena meaning you can't farm with lower chars.
Oh lets do raids wait NCSoft in its infinite wisdom killed all the bosses cause you need 98 people to just enter the raid boss, not even the top two clans in NA can do that Nova/SH, so who can have 98 people on at the same time to do a raid that drops 1 or 2 items that even spilt over 98 becomes maybe 1 mil each?
NcSoft is artificially crashing the economy with many of the changes.
+1 You got it. Most of us are NOT making much adena. Drops are aren't happening and NC is nerfing more areas. There is nothing to make up for these drop rate cuts. This will drive people to buy adena.
If your clan has at least 7 active people, make a group of lvl 85 characters and just kill Zaken 3 times per week. The drops + vorpal jewels should cover your clan hall rent even if you just sell them to NPC's (thus no adena leaves the system). Doing the Zaken instance shouldn't take more than 15 minutes, including putting the group together and regrouping on the ship.
If you have less than 7 active members, you shouldn't have a clan hall.
If your clan has at least 7 active people, make a group of lvl 85 characters and just kill Zaken 3 times per week. The drops + vorpal jewels should cover your clan hall rent even if you just sell them to NPC's (thus no adena leaves the system). Doing the Zaken instance shouldn't take more than 15 minutes, including putting the group together and regrouping on the ship.
If you have less than 7 active members, you shouldn't have a clan hall.
Some clans went inactive before Goddess dropped. I was in a very active awesome clan,but the leader and a lot of members quit when goddess was announced and went to another game. Someone took over the clan for the few of us left and held down the hall.
Not sure if that hall was still being held, the forum domain expired almost a year ago so I imagine if that hall was still being paid for,it's going to be lost with the new rent hike. It's more about hoping people will return and things will fire up again,but I don't see it happening, it's been three years or so.
ETA: I just checked and it's not being held so there you have it.
That was supposed to be a general suggestion about earning the necessary amount of adena, I didn't mean your clan in particular. Just trying to point out, that getting 50-100M/week isn't as difficult as some people make it out to be. ;)
That was supposed to be a general suggestion about earning the necessary amount of adena, I didn't mean your clan in particular. Just trying to point out, that getting 50-100M/week isn't as difficult as some people make it out to be. ;)
This was an old clan of many years,but anyways.
I guess it just depends on the clan. A lot people save adena for their gear upgrades. I know I'm always hoarding my adena and drops. Old quests on alts to generate income are basically now a fruitless effort with nerfed drops or the rewards aren't really of any value anymore.
This is great!!!!! Active clans will get clan halls and people who have clan halls on box clans will get rid of them so then song have to throw money away. I think its a super idea for active clans to get clan halls
This is great!!!!! Active clans will get clan halls and people who have clan halls on box clans will get rid of them so then song have to throw money away. I think its a super idea for active clans to get clan halls
This is great!!!!! Active clans will get clan halls and people who have clan halls on box clans will get rid of them so then song have to throw money away. I think its a super idea for active clans to get clan halls
Who said active clans will get clan halls?
Many big clans have clan halls for their alt clans also not so many inactive clans at least on Chornus.
I count 8 clan halls held by major clan alt clans right now.
GalaCommon sense is not your strength right? gludin/gludio clanhalls goes to gludio castle, Dion clanhalls to dion castle , etc...
We have gludio some weeks and get 0 adena each weeks..doubt u get anything with light castle... Or how it work,it go auto to cwh? castle vault at least empty permanent. Guess i have to check my cwh lil more often to answer this myself xD
We have gludio some weeks and get 0 adena each weeks..doubt u get anything with light castle... Or how it work,it go auto to cwh? castle vault at least empty permanent. Guess i have to check my cwh lil more often to answer this myself xD
light get nothing , only dark get tax and CL have to get them from castle every monday.
its simple , with light u dont have to defend castle from the tax campaign but get no tax adena , dark get adena from tax but u have to defend castle every sunday (before siege for 45min) , and everyone can pk u w/o going red. , with valiance if im not wrong they will just delete the tax campaign , so maybe this will push clan to go on dark to get adena from tax and also will increase the pvp
We have gludio some weeks and get 0 adena each weeks..doubt u get anything with light castle... Or how it work,it go auto to cwh? castle vault at least empty permanent. Guess i have to check my cwh lil more often to answer this myself xD
If you dont know how a castle works u suppose not to have one at all.
I see all castles occupied but 99% didnt set their manor right or not at all, prolly because they dont know how to.
Set your taxes right, manage manor and you will have income.
If you dont know how a castle works u suppose not to have one at all.
I see all castles occupied but 99% didnt set their manor right or not at all, prolly because they dont know how to.
Set your taxes right, manage manor and you will have income.
If you dont know how a castle works u suppose not to have one at all.
I see all castles occupied but 99% didnt set their manor right or not at all, prolly because they dont know how to.
Set your taxes right, manage manor and you will have income.
broo in 22 days is 2014, manor stop exist when GoD start. That nps menu is just one of old unnecessary pixels what dev's forget to delete...
You're posting on a public forum in a thread that anyone can comment on. You constantly flame and post nonsense at people who might know something more or are better at then you.
For once it would be nice if you could manage to spell,speak English and post a GIF that actually made sense or was MILDLY amusing. I roll my eyes at work enough, I don't need you to make them bleed on here.
surely you people see the thought process in this...........all will drain adena, trying to keep their clan halls, plus they are adding what? 10 more? so tons of adena people will be spending out of their piddly incomes. forcing people to buy more nc coin and get adenas. = criminal!
surely you people see the thought process in this...........all will drain adena, trying to keep their clan halls, plus they are adding what? 10 more? so tons of adena people will be spending out of their piddly incomes. forcing people to buy more nc coin and get adenas. = criminal!
There's no crime at all. You don't need a hall to be a clan technically. You could take a fort,contestable clan hall or even a temp hall on TI or do one better and take a castle.
You can survive with no clan hall. People do it every day.
On topic: Just farm Freya and Tezza. Drops now are kinda worth it after the update (too bad for the elegia users who spents billions trying to get the set, now they drop from the ice queen).
On topic: Just farm Freya and Tezza. Drops now are kinda worth it after the update (too bad for the elegia users who spents billions trying to get the set, now they drop from the ice queen).
Farm Tezza did something change since the last update? He takes hours to do since the upped how hard he is. Not exactly farming material like Freya or Zaken would be.
Farm Tezza did something change since the last update? He takes hours to do since the upped how hard he is. Not exactly farming material like Freya or Zaken would be.
It takes a lot more people and I think he was made harder to kill. Kinda sucks, I like farming it quick and easy
Farm Tezza did something change since the last update? He takes hours to do since the upped how hard he is. Not exactly farming material like Freya or Zaken would be.
There's no crime at all. You don't need a hall to be a clan technically. You could take a fort,contestable clan hall or even a temp hall on TI or do one better and take a castle.
You can survive with no clan hall. People do it every day.
Getting any amount of adena is easy if you have nice trading skills, it will also make you happy knowing that this adena you got you will use it to make more adena and buy something you like (ofc top level players dont need items anymore) or need, but knowing that this money will vanish (it will not go to anyone's pocket) is not nice...
If all clan halls are occupied by clans which can maintain their fees, this means steady 5billion adena sinking out of economy... the question is: which current way exists to put 5billion adena back to economy every week? Please dont tell me the server can do it every week just selling drops to npc... Im tired of rolling my eyes... they bleed...
The economy will fall apart... stagnate... ppl will not have money to buy anything and prices will drop for sure... but think that ppl like to feel theirselves wealthy and just to avoid the opposite they will just leave game, or like every season of disliked players, they sell their items now while they still worth something, keep the money and return to play when they feel they can buy the items cheaper later... playing since OB I see this happening many times and it will happen again... (sounds like High 5 no? pre-GoD)
Thank you Malrim, the idiot players from cheating clans do not see the bigger problem here. If clans maintain the 100 mil a week that 100 mil that would of been going to the economy will now disappear.
What you think would happen to any economy if every week 5 billion was sucked out of never to be seen again? It causes a depression, this is simple economics.
That baium ring selling for 2.5 billion will sell for 250 mil but still no one will be able to buy it because there is a lack of adena on the server.
Thank you Malrim, the idiot players from cheating clans do not see the bigger problem here. If clans maintain the 100 mil a week that 100 mil that would of been going to the economy will now disappear.
What you think would happen to any economy if every week 5 billion was sucked out of never to be seen again? It causes a depression, this is simple economics.
That baium ring selling for 2.5 billion will sell for 250 mil but still no one will be able to buy it because there is a lack of adena on the server.
Normal clan = 20-100 players, 20-100 players putting 2-5kk every week makes 14-350kk weekely... 5kk = 5 days of doing a 5 min daily quest in the mithril mines which is 80+, meaning a normal clan gets enough money to pay the rent and still you get from all your other drops and stuff the money you earn...
So now please tell me again it's better box clans to keep CHs, instead of making it for the high level players to waste too much money to solo hold a CH for their boxes and finaly the useless small clans to learn some teamplay and start working all together to keep something nice... This is why we cant have good things! ******s and QQers! All around!
Normal clan = 20-100 players, 20-100 players putting 2-5kk every week makes 14-350kk weekely... 5kk = 5 days of doing a 5 min daily quest in the mithril mines which is 80+, meaning a normal clan gets enough money to pay the rent and still you get from all your other drops and stuff the money you earn...
So now please tell me again it's better box clans to keep CHs, instead of making it for the high level players to waste too much money to solo hold a CH for their boxes and finaly the useless small clans to learn some teamplay and start working all together to keep something nice... This is why we cant have good things! ******s and QQers! All around!
Kapy, you missing the point... it is not a problem earn the adena, the problem is that it will go pooff along with an enourmous amount of adena sink on this game... Gems for crafting, Gems for siege, adena for enchanting skills, teleportatiton, Giant's energy some might buy from MoM, solvents for crafting, all that money will go to the system not someone's pocket.
SlyCutter is currently the leader if the oldest clan at Chronos, they even got to hold a castle sometimes, their size and members varies from time to time, that clan hall had a cost (it was not cheap) and as one of the few clans still accepting low levels, that clan hall is useful for a bunch of reasons... The got the point using the clan hall as to point out the adena sink practice from NCSoft, from someone which suddenly see one asset having its cost raising and no extra benefitt being given, that must piss off too. What I see is a legit clan which support beginners having an extra job to support that cause... ofc their active members will do whatever is necessary to keep the clan hall, but it is sad seeing that adena vanishing instead of going to some player's pocket... wish I could be the one to receive such a fee.
Kapy, you missing the point... it is not a problem earn the adena, the problem is that it will go pooff along with an enourmous amount of adena sink on this game... Gems for crafting, Gems for siege, adena for enchanting skills, teleportatiton, Giant's energy some might buy from MoM, solvents for crafting, all that money will go to the system not someone's pocket.
SlyCutter is currently the leader if the oldest clan at Chronos, they even got to hold a castle sometimes, their size and members varies from time to time, that clan hall had a cost (it was not cheap) and as one of the few clans still accepting low levels, that clan hall is useful for a bunch of reasons... The got the point using the clan hall as to point out the adena sink practice from NCSoft, from someone which suddenly see one asset having its cost raising and no extra benefitt being given, that must piss off too. What I see is a legit clan which support beginners having an extra job to support that cause... ofc their active members will do whatever is necessary to keep the clan hall, but it is sad seeing that adena vanishing instead of going to some player's pocket... wish I could be the one to receive such a fee.
Better to the system so if an adena baron wants to have 50 clan halls, he/she will start lossing pretty quickly and it may even cause some price lowers, because the money barons will notice how the adena from the servers goes away! Bu hu! less money in people... more items in their pockets (not able to sell them), droping to prices, money starts running again... economics get better... the low adena drop rates get better... notice how the main adena factors for the bots get nerfed and it gets harder for them to make money aswell... NC have a good plan to fix the economics for now, but first people need to get smarter...
personally i think that any active clan should not have any major issues to get 100m a week, a clan with 50 members should have major issues with inactivity if each member could not pay 2m a week for the CH.
btw, where you get 100m from? i seen 50m for CH, nothing mentioned about costs to add buffs etc.
What "active clan" can't put up 1 million adena per member per week?
But why should we have to?
This is supposed to be a GAME and not a JOB.
This game should be something that you are able to play at your leisure and convenience. The moment that the game tries to force you to play a certain number of hours per week is the moment that the game has stepped out of line. And it seems that moment has now been fully realized.
This is a change whose function does nothing but harms legitimate players. That is its only function. Non graduated adena sinks like these aren't actually adena sinks. An adena sink is something which functions to keep the prices lower on all items. The adena sink must all be implemented in a way that prevents it from pricing the poorer plays out of the market. This means that the only real adena sink has to be a graduated adena sink, which is to say that the cost increases as the wealth of the person playing it increases. Thus a flat cost like this which harms the poorer players while having little to no affect on the richest players does not function as an adena sink.
To put it more simply, an adena sink's entire purpose is to create a stable price level so that all players can participate in the game's economy and can buy and sell the things the need.
However the moment that an adena sink becomes a seperate cost itself, then a poor player must choose between either trying to fruitlessly save money to participate in the game's economy or deal with whatever system has the adena sink associated with it and thereby not engage in the game's economy then that adena sink is not an adena sink but a luxury good whose purpose is not to remove adena from the economy but to provide a new service for the richest players.
Now instead of helping the poorest players which is the purpose of an adena sink, the game further stratifies the richest and poorest players by making the richest players better off and the poorest players worse off which is the completely opposite purpose of an adena sink!
STOP MAKING LUXURY GOODS AND CALLING THEM ADENA SINKS! Starting calling your spades a spade.
Getting any amount of adena is easy if you have nice trading skills,
IE getting adena is easy if you are willing to allow bots to farm the adena, some players to buy that adena, and lucky players to get the drops that the botted money is used to buy.
Do you see where the entire problem is here?
If you don't it is that the adena is coming from botting activities.
Players should be getting all the adena they need just from killing mobs while they are grinding XP. The fact that they don't currently is one of the biggest failures of this game.
clan hall nust be help and at that price they will not do, my clan is a small clan and I can not ask others spend their adena when they are trying to buy equipment . The reality of the servers is not enough for that and the only thing is that cause the biggest clans to buy clan hall to their secondary characters clans.
i just recalled how we did when my first clan got a CH.
at start every player payed some 100k or so to CWH, later we found it more convinient to simply do raids as clan and drops were sold to members at discount or on market and the income from this was used to keep CH running.
Not everyone else is a botter, nor do they aspire to be.
I have no idea how many clans there would be if we merged all the small clans into bigger clans, but I am sure bigger clans will have no trouble at all paying for a clan hall.
I'm also not implying they need to be full clans, but keeping around clans with 10-15 ppl that can barely raid anything isnt helping those clans either.
I realize some ppl think their clans are awesome because they were made when the game was new, but if you cant keep it active, it is dead, you just need to understand it.
Now if you have a lvl 11 clan with full clan skills, thats a different matter, that is a perfect way to recruit ppl, who wants to start over with nothing for clan skills? Get those smaller clans to merge into your clan.
And raid.
And you will have no trouble at all paying for a clan hall.
Or maybe the GM's can have some food stamp system so crap clans can hold clan halls?
My clan is amongst the oldest in NA. We have level with full units and full skills and yes almost all the major clans are botting clans because people do not get banned for sh*ts and giggles sorry to disappoint you.
Also real clans go through periods of ups and downs even the mighty Nova was barely functioning at one point in the last 2 years. Its during the down times money gets tight. Clan hall fees go up but nothing was added to it.
Selling is not an option as clan halls are are being bought now for under a billion adena, selling would mean I would lose at least 1.5 billion adena on it since the server merge made me pay more money then what they refunded when they merged servers.
I prefer not to lose 1.5 billion adena I know that is hard concept for you grasp and every clan hall on server went for 2.5 - 5 billion adena.
So your saying no clan has ever had periods of low activity right? ROFLOl.
Dead clans did you look at who is bidding on new clan halls? On my server its all known alt clans of big clans. So your idea is not making any sense people who have more money than god are buying clan halls for their little alts and bot trains so how does this help the server?
one person does not make a clan successful or unsuccesful.
There are some people who farm things no one else can farm because they either lock others out or prevent people from farming there etc. Has nothing to do with success. There are others that exploit game mechanics and its really not hard to tell who does that.
None of these make someone successful. When I played the market when the market was viable I was very rich and could afford to buy most what I wanted and paid for half my clan's clan hall. However market is so ***** now its hard to make money unless you play ALOT and I am not here to make this a job so whatever.
The issue is why up the payments on something that nothing is increasing no better items not better buffs but cost x10 as much. As seem to believe this is a none issue but there a bigger issue if you been actually reading the posts.
I am just going to sum up Smittie's position as concisely as possible to show how ridiculous it is, and that position is:
Anyone who doesn't want to turn Lineage 2 into a second job and instead wants Lineage 2 to be played for fun and enjoyment has no right being here and certainly has no right to a clan hall.
I also think people fail to understand why the idea of merging clans is so distasteful to old clans. Not only do you have to give up your independance, but your clan through its history throughout the years becomes a family. When you login in you are logging in to spend time with your second family. Once you merge clans it is like getting a stepparent and stepsisters and stepbrothers. You don't like them, you have every reason to hate them and things will either never work out or will take a very long time to work out and you certainly don't want to have to share your stuff with them, especially when they don't want to fairly share their stuff with you either. And I don't see myself wanting to log in to spend time with stepparents and stepsiblings I have no ties with. I want to log in to spend time with my second family. That is a social dynamic that NCSoft has been unable or unwilling to understand.
The other problem is one of sovereignty. Since for some reason this game only allows guilds run by a single clan leader and doesn't allow oligopolies or democracies, merging clans creates the problem sovereignty. Chiefly in deciding which clanleader from the merged clans will be the one in charge of the merged clan and getting the members and clan leader of the dissolved clan to accept this change in leadership which may very well require a change in ideology which is something that takes a lot of time. The dissolved clan will also have problems dealing with authority and in recourses to problems they may have which prior to the merger would have been solved by a clan leader they understood and respected but must not be resolved by someone who is totally new who the members probably don't respect and whose decision will always be met with some degree of disdain and fear that the new clan leader favored the original clan members over the new clan members from the dissolved clan. The other problem is of course dealing with the fact that the dissolved clan will be inheriting the politics of the new clan which could be quite different from what they were used to and from what they are comfortable with.
This will ultimately create a very negative experience for the dissolved clan that will least anywhere from weeks to a year or longer. I just don't see what the point of making players endure this is for.
Anyways, the idea of the alliance system should have rendered the need for merging clans as pointless. Since there is already a way to keep a large number of small independent clans together (as an alliance), there was never any reason for small clans to have to give up their independence. And the limited number of clan halls is an artificial problem entirely of NCSoft's own design. There is no reason why every clan couldn't be given a free clan hall since this game is entirely artificial and this is nothing but data that can be changed with a key stroke. Unless somehow adding more clan halls would create an enormous amount of stress on the servers which I highly doubt, but that would be the only legitimate reason for limiting the number of clanhalls.
Of course if that were the case, NC could defray the cost of upgrading the servers to accommodate new clan halls by auctioning those new clan halls for NCcoin. I think that if NC was upfront about not being able to afford to upgrade the server unless they make so much money from the clan hall auction then a lot of people would be more willing to accept this move and would even be more willing to accept if these clan halls were made a little bit better than the clan halls you could only get by purchasing with adena. But the issue then becomes one of transparency and from what I have seen, the Korean branch of NCSoft finds transparency of any type or form to be utterly loathsome.
I am just going to sum up Smittie's position as concisely as possible to show how ridiculous it is, and that position is:
Anyone who doesn't want to turn Lineage 2 into a second job and instead wants Lineage 2 to be played for fun and entertainment has no right being hall and certainly has no right to a clan hall.
No, what he is actually saying is that anyone who cannot keep a decently sized clan to do quick and easy raids that can be done twice a week as a clan that easily pay off the clan hall for a month or more after a week of raiding (total time is like 6 hours max for the whole week) then that pitifully sized clan does not deserve to keep a clan hall when there are other deserving clans who can and will be more than happy to pay 50mil a week since it is very easy to get that kind of money with a clan with at least 5 parties of active players.
No, what he is actually saying is that anyone who cannot keep a decently sized clan to do quick and easy raids that can be done twice a week as a clan that easily pay off the clan hall for a month or more after a week of raiding (total time is like 6 hours max for the whole week) then that pitifully sized clan does not deserve to keep a clan hall when there are other deserving clans who can and will be more than happy to pay 50mil a week since it is very easy to get that kind of money with a clan with at least 5 parties of active players.
That is exactly what I said. What you are describing is a requirement to perform work which has no place in a video game.
A videogame requiring people to perform even 1 second of work that they don't want to perform has stepped out of line. A video game requiring at least 6 extra hours per week from each clan member that they don't want to do has therefore clearly stepped out of line. The problem thus is not the players but the video game itself which tries to make itself seem more important than what it is. That video game needs to be made to see itself as a video game once again.
People don't become more or less worthy of something in a video game by performing work that is contrary to the nature and purpose of the video game. Instead of trying to stratify people into artificial groups of your own creation (of which you have created two groups, those you view as worthy people and those you view as worthless simply because they only want to play the game for fun), you should perhaps try to understand the deeper problem here, which is why it is wrong for a video game to start requiring the players to perform work in order to maintain a benefit that they didn't have to perform that work for prior to this point.
The idea that people can say that you don't deserve to have something in a video game is absolutely disgusting. It is just a fricking video game people!
What next? Are you are going to say that African Americans don't deserve the right to vote? That schools should be resegregated?
That is exactly what I said. What you are describing is a requirement to perform work which has no place in a video game.
A videogame requiring people to perform even 1 second of work that they don't want to perform has stepped out of line. A video game requiring at least 6 extra hours per week from each clan member that they don't want to do has therefore clearly stepped out of line. The problem thus is not the players but the video game itself which tries to make itself seem more important than what it is. That video game needs to be made to see itself as a video game once again.
People don't become more or less worthy of something in a video game by performing work that is contrary to the nature and purpose of the video game. Instead of trying to stratify people into artificial groups of your own creation (of which you have created two groups, those you view as worthy people and those you view as worthless simply because they only want to play the game for fun), you should perhaps try to understand the deeper problem here, which is why it is wrong for a video game to start requiring the players to perform work in order to maintain a benefit that they didn't have to perform that work for prior to this point.
The idea that people can say that you don't deserve to have something in a video game is absolutely disgusting. It is just a fricking video game people!
What next? Are you are going to say that African Americans don't deserve the right to vote? That schools should be resegregated?
Do you know what work is?
Work is expending energy to create displacement or in a more general sense you're using energy to make something happen.
You work when you get out of the bed. You work when you eat, you work when you use the bathroom. Saying that any game that requires you to work for even 1 second is an unintelligible response as you are constantly working every time you move any part of your body.
For everyone else. Its not 6 extra hours. Raiding is more profitable than farming and it is something that everyone makes time for and will quickly drop farming to do so. So it is only 6 extra hours for you. Also, 6 hours over the span of a week is less than an hour a day and if an hour a day is too much effort for you then you shouldn't be playing L2 at all (or games for that matter... or even alive you lazy bum :P )
Almost all games make themselves seem more important than they are or people wouldn't play them, especially not one that requires a large amount of people to even be playable from a single player perspective.
As regards to creating groups between people who play for fun or people who play for business... People who play for business don't raid. They automate characters in farm zones and sell adena for profit. People who play for fun are the ones who raid.
And what I and smittie are saying is that small clans do not deserve clan halls over large clans. Small clans, yes would have to expend a lot of effort to keep their clan hall. Large clans have to expend little effort to keep their clan hall. Actually large clans do not have to expend any more effort now than before in Lindvior and prior because they collectively make much more than 50 million adena a day doing their daily routine making 50 million a week nothing to them.
And lastly, a question. Are you racist against african americans? You using them in an example to this has no relevance and yes I am questioning your mindset as a potentially corrupted human being.
Truth is 20x sounds like a bad joke especially when in general all adena drop has been decreased.
I don't know what people think in Korea but at NA ... it looks like a good idea.
Why?
There are plenty small - actually dead, or almost_dead clans.
2-3 people inside, no real community, only CL or maybe 2 more fellows care .. and they keep CH.
Instead of some MMO relation people stays in those zombie clans.
That change may force some people to consolidate around few active left - even not for love to clan ... but just to collect money for fees.
Other will drop CH, and try fight for forts.
Some will fight, some give up, some just disappear.
Sad but .. I think it is more healthy than situation now when zombie clans keep CH in top towns...
After someone else came in to put words in my mouth.
Please keep in mind ppl, having a clan hall is not for everyone. Booohooo if you have to lift your fingers a lil bit and do something to keep one. But now clans that didnt have the luck of having clan leaders logged in when servers went up after patches also get a chance to have a clan hall. And goodbye to dead squatter clans.
I believe this is the exact intention of the devs, to get rid of the lazy and unproductives.
After someone else came in to put words in my mouth.
Please keep in mind ppl, having a clan hall is not for everyone. Booohooo if you have to lift your fingers a lil bit and do something to keep one. But now clans that didnt have the luck of having clan leaders logged in when servers went up after patches also get a chance to have a clan hall. And goodbye to dead squatter clans.
I believe this is the exact intention of the devs, to get rid of the lazy and unproductives.I agree on the fact that to hold a CH you NEED to have a work-power inside your Clan, otherwise, if you don't mind to use the Clan for the purpose they are made, is a nonsense.
BUT..
Clearly, get the fees at first 5x more, and then 20x more, seems a bit excessive.. it's a total of 25x more.. what will be next move? 50x? People should be more serious about that.
I'm thinking about the fact that the OLDER players will stand a chance than the new ones, because they had a "money pool" already made..
We don't have a CH, actually, and we may get one later on.. somehow.. but with the cut on the lower zones (we are still on the subclass/dualclass unlock stuff) we can't make a "starting" money pool..
It's totally ok to me increase it, to make people really DO something instead of put down 2 coins and they got it.. but even 20x is excessive.. an half way?
If you once got a clan, it grew and was active, managed to get a clan hall, and after the clan became inactive would you just give up on holding that clan hall?
SlyCutter effort still recruit and offer opportunity to bellow 90's is there... how can he manage to grow again and keep the environment for new comers if the game put pressure just now he is on low activity?
I see good reason for each of the posts placed here. From Sly, to Smittie, to Yamino, to Elisande and Brian I see some positive comments, also some not so positive. A clan's history should be ofc be taken into consideration, the game history too, but reality now is far from to be changed. A price raising like that will not change. It is a new rule and we will have to accept it if we want to play the game. New players will therefore see this as a rule and will accept. Every person dont like to have their environment changing and a reaction is expected. There is still ways to adapt. But be assured that more money sinking out of economy will have a bad effect on the game sooner or later, it is pure economics applied.
PS: I dont think Ellisande was racist about her comment.
Actually money sinks will make it easier for newcomers in the long run.
And you dont have to have a "work-power" in a clan, to keep a clan hall.
But if your clan isnt even doing Istina, is it even a clan, or just a handfull of friends?
There are active clans out there that dont have a clan hall, now they will have a chance to get one.
Istina still drops blessed scrolls at a very high rate, sell those and have that finance your clan hall. It is not hard, and it dont take an hour even, it should barely take a buff round. If you cant spend a buff round on the weekend to do a raid to keep a clan hall, what is the point?
Noone is gonna finance a clan hall by picking up drops from the ground, so dont even try to argue using the new lowbie area money drops lol. That is just ridiculous.
I think this will force people to actually operate with making adena as a higher priority, I am not super wealthy on here, but have no probs making a few bill adena. The biggest things that will have to change is that clans that need to make money are going to have to stop stacking raids with DDs that are too high lvl, which is common practice in l2. Fortuna, Istina, Octavis, never stopped dropping, they still drop very well as long as you don't include DDs that are too high lvl. That alone would increase profits. Instead of seeing some bosses on L2 as XP bosses, view them for drops, start putting in lvl caps for some bosses. im assuming a clan of mostly 99 wont struggle with 100M, so I am basing this off 99 minus clans.
Right now gonna be a CLAN HALL, not a only one person hall =P, in shilen for example a clan just have to do 2 istina and have the rent for a month (always drop a bear and unbind armor r, in adena around 130 kk) don't be such a crying baby xP.
I think this will force people to actually operate with making adena as a higher priority, I am not super wealthy on here, but have no probs making a few bill adena. The biggest things that will have to change is that clans that need to make money are going to have to stop stacking raids with DDs that are too high lvl, which is common practice in l2. Fortuna, Istina, Octavis, never stopped dropping, they still drop very well as long as you don't include DDs that are too high lvl. That alone would increase profits. Instead of seeing some bosses on L2 as XP bosses, view them for drops, start putting in lvl caps for some bosses. im assuming a clan of mostly 99 wont struggle with 100M, so I am basing this off 99 minus clans.
Money will never be a problem for anyone that invest time and brain to get it. I just think that L2 player base see the money as a primary thing in the game and the economy will always reflect such mindset. There are other games out there, where you can get money with half the effort expent in L2, plenty of usefull drops and able to reach cap level to actually start work on better gear on a steady curve up to more complex raid and instances. NCSoft's Aion is an example to not mention the competition (yes, the T and W thing are good examples too). It just gets harder with everyone overpricing and money sink in the game, besides that it is possible get there, just not fast.
A clan hall should be something that the entire clan must paid for, not something very cheap so many dead clans can still have a greddy leader hording the ch for ever till can sell it for a lot.
This system makes more difficult to single individuals to keep the ch for themselves, in Magmeld i can easy count more than 10 ch in hands of dead clans, and many other clans cant have them cus those ****** take them and never let them go.
This helps so more ch are available for others clans to buy and upkeep.
PD: newage, toplatino, finalorder, shuffle, madness, etc...and more dead clans that still keep the chs.
Actually money sinks will make it easier for newcomers in the long run.
And you dont have to have a "work-power" in a clan, to keep a clan hall.
But if your clan isnt even doing Istina, is it even a clan, or just a handfull of friends?
There are active clans out there that dont have a clan hall, now they will have a chance to get one.
Istina still drops blessed scrolls at a very high rate, sell those and have that finance your clan hall. It is not hard, and it dont take an hour even, it should barely take a buff round. If you cant spend a buff round on the weekend to do a raid to keep a clan hall, what is the point?
Noone is gonna finance a clan hall by picking up drops from the ground, so dont even try to argue using the new lowbie area money drops lol. That is just ridiculous.
Smittie your idea is BS.
Here is example one of my members still has a low level alt in his old clan, clan leader quit turned the clan over to someone whose main is in a power clan.
Ally clan wanted a clan hall so they wanted to know when the money was going to run out. He checked said there was 28 mil left in clan wh last week. Check yesterday there was 2.8 billion. No more than 2 - 3 active players ever logged it is used as alt clan for a power clan.
So your idea means nothing. Most of the auction bids on the new clans were by alt clans of people with billions of adena. So what you have is people who either cheated or have money than they know what to do with buying all the clan halls for dead clans.
So active clans are losing their clan halls and alt clans are gaining clan halls... So how is your theory working out now?
Active clans cannot afford to buy a new clan hall at 7.5 billion some are sure to go for so again your theory is shot.
Also ultimately all that money is sucked of the economy permanently. So explain to me which you haven't yet to maintain the balance of adena on this server. IE keep prices what they are now how do you create 5 billion adena new adena a week than 2 weeks ago?
As drops from raids and mobs have been greatly reduced to pre-GOD levels (thanks Korea /rolls eyes) how do you make that kind of money to just maintain an economy?
It is simple economics when more money is being removed from economy than being put in there is a depression. Which we will see the effects of starting probably in a month or two.
Let's think what NCSoft was thinking pre-update launch:
Humm... we will gonna raise bid level for all clan halls up to 99billion... we are going to raise the fees too, so if some clan would drop any of them we are going to see a rush from others to raise as much money as needed for the next bidding, and that would easily ripoff lots of billions of adena from the server, as much indeed as many clan halls become available... Thats ingenious! We might also catch some ppl buying adena and we can ban them as the adena seller accounts too in the process... oh well I need a raise...
So your idea means nothing. Most of the auction bids on the new clans were by alt clans of people with billions of adena. So what you have is people who either cheated or have money than they know what to do with buying all the clan halls for dead clans.
So active clans are losing their clan halls and alt clans are gaining clan halls... So how is your theory working out now?
Active clans cannot afford to buy a new clan hall at 7.5 billion some are sure to go for so again your theory is shot.
Also ultimately all that money is sucked of the economy permanently. So explain to me which you haven't yet to maintain the balance of adena on this server. IE keep prices what they are now how do you create 5 billion adena new adena a week than 2 weeks ago?
As drops from raids and mobs have been greatly reduced to pre-GOD levels (thanks Korea /rolls eyes) how do you make that kind of money to just maintain an economy?
It is simple economics when more money is being removed from economy than being put in there is a depression. Which we will see the effects of starting probably in a month or two.
My idea isnt BS, your clan is.
No active clan is losing clan hall, the inactive, crap clans are losing theirs. So there will still be some free. Or they will atleast belong to more active clans than currently. Win/win.
Having money sucked out of the economy is what keeps prices low and not inflate. Eventually this will benifit everyone.
Do the 97 raids, gear drops, have it finance your clan hall.
So your saying no clan has ever had periods of low activity right? ROFLOl.
Dead clans did you look at who is bidding on new clan halls? On my server its all known alt clans of big clans. So your idea is not making any sense people who have more money than god are buying clan halls for their little alts and bot trains so how does this help the server?
So let buy them, if Nova wants to hold all clan halls so it be. I am in a lvl 10 clan that is comming from Bartz, we have money for a clan hall, when we spoke to clan leader he told "wtf i better help guys to buy gear and so on, than throw money on the wind for nothing." We have Dominators an Iss high lvl so there are no problem with buff. For what u need a Clan Hall? It is just a deamn room that is pumping money from u. Clan Halls are for big clans with at least 50-100 players online, for them 50-100 mil are nothing, not money. If u have 10-15 players online u dont need a clan hall at all.
And i dont say about fortresses and contestable clan halls for which u dont need to pay at all just collect your 15 players and win them.
No active clan is losing clan hall, the inactive, crap clans are losing theirs. So there will still be some free. Or they will atleast belong to more active clans than currently. Win/win.
Having money sucked out of the economy is what keeps prices low and not inflate. Eventually this will benifit everyone.
Do the 97 raids, gear drops, have it finance your clan hall.
Or let someone else have the clan hall.
Smittie your a moron.
No money getting sucked out the economy will not benefit anyone. Reason being there are static costs that are not controlled by the economy IE Soulshots, GK, gemstones, crystals. There is a floor on how long these things go.
People stop selling gear when it is below crystal price so people crush it and making it into soulshots and then gear becomes very scarce this happened to a lot of S80 gear pre-GoD. It made it almost impossible to gear up because no one was selling the pieces or mats to craft them. People instead crushed things to sell the crystals and soulshots instead because at least they could break even.
This is not a true economy if it was NCSoft would not have any say in the price of anything but since they do it creates issues when they imbalance it.
And what constitutes a crap clan in your eyes? I seen 3 clans with 40+ active members sell their clan halls and now alt clans own them. To me an alt clan is a crap clan, it has no business existing like you said so why should it own a clan hall?
And what constitutes a crap clan in your eyes? I seen 3 clans with 40+ active members sell their clan halls and now alt clans own them. To me an alt clan is a crap clan, it has no business existing like you said so why should it own a clan hall?
To generate more income and to fulfill tasks that the main clan cannot.
The first reason is a little greedy and unjustified I agree.
The second reason is more than enough reason for certain clans to fulfill certain agenda (i.e. raids, maintaining neutral/PvE status while being able to participate in siege regardless of clan wars). They aren't crap clans for that reason. Imo they help circumvent a lot of drama that goes on in game that is unneeded and troublesome.
Though I do agree with you in terms of the game economy. Gold sinks don't do much to stop inflation. Bots when faced with this problem have been doing the same thing over and over again: Make more bots and farm more areas to compensate for Adena drop nerfs and gold sinks.
Because L2 is F2P, uses a terribly outdated "GameGuard" antibot program, and rarely has any policing in game, RMT bots can simply create a lot of accounts without any loss of production simply because the game is free. If an account is banned, they make 10 more to replace it. The staff at NCWest either can't keep up or they don't care (My belief is the former).
What also doesn't help is how high leveled end-gamers who have all the gear they need, sell adena privately to either these RMT companies or other acquaintances who need/want the adena to hit that endgame status.
Should calm down Sly. Try doing the newer Freya and Tezza instances for the S80 drops...the prices on Elegia and top S80 weapons are stupidly high and will make up for the increased costs of clan maintenance.
And what constitutes a crap clan in your eyes? I seen 3 clans with 40+ active members sell their clan halls and now alt clans own them. To me an alt clan is a crap clan, it has no business existing like you said so why should it own a clan hall?
A clan that has 40+ actives and cant raid a few times to cover clan hall cost is not worth having a clan hall.
If all those 40+ ppl do is log on to chat, that can be done without a clan hall.
Lets keep the clan halls belonging to the successfull clans, with activity.
An alt is cannot be considered successful so how does your theory go with what the devs intended?
Devs also never intended alt clans to hold castles. Or the passing off of Olympiad points to farm heroes.
You do realize 90% of how you play the game is not how it was designed as in Korea there is very little open world pvp, very little griefing and pvp is usually honorable, not some 99+ clan waring smaller clans to make the epeen feel bigger. Nevermind the locking people out of certain raids or xp areas just because you do not want the competition.
NA does not play the game the way it was designed so can you please try a different excuse because none of what you says ever makes common sense.
Successful clan = one that does what it wants, when it wants, and dont run into trouble at the very first obstacle, which could be but is not limited, to the inability to acquire 100m per month.
If an alt clan is financed by an extremely successfull clan, so be it, but I think you will have trouble passing your clan off as an alt clan of one.
Actually alt clans owning castles in Korea is quite common. There is a lot of clan rivalry in Korea (like SH vs DH here in Naia) where one clan will go out of their way to make sure the enemy clan doesn't own any castle, and that includes owning castles with alts.