This thread is opened to discuss priorities in building up a healer (Cardinal).
Apart from the obvious (decent armor, normal jewels and {acumen} buster to get you by), which are the important items to invest on and which sequence is the best? That is, of course, in case you dont get a drop and you have to plan buying and building them up.
Boss jewels, Dyes, talismans, augmentations until we get a good one, overenchants, etc.
List your priorities!
My last experience with L2 was in c4. Would really appreciate any recommendation.
PvP healer. My lvl is 95 and I already got seraph light set(i got it for free). Should I exchange it for robe? I ve got apoc buster with acumen. What should be my first priority from now on?
I will start from the end, because there is too much work you need to be done when you ding 99 so you can start work on it/ think about it.
Nowadays most of PvP healer go for HP build.
When you ding 99 you need to farm AP (they are really important and AP will help you a lot). It's long way to get full AP so from start you should spend all AP to % HP.
You can easy reach good casting speed so i play with healh weapon (+25% HP). Also i have all dye + CON.
About armor, you can use robe or light if light have good enchant. But don't try heavy. Robe passive +10 for HP bonus is necesary.
Jewels - it depends on how money do you have. Istina neck for cool down is necesary. Then Baium's Soul Ring, Istina ring/AQ soul ring (Tauti/Trasken is also very good choice but for this you need lot of money), Blessed Anthy/Valakas can give you also good stats and are useful but as i said, you need to have lot of adena. Basic setup should be at least - istina neck + istina ring + baium, rest just use coc earrings for example.
Enchants - passives +10, Giant's Favor +10, heals are not necesarry to be +10, +7 is enough. For oly +10 crystal regeneration.
Augments - for normal pvp active reflect, passive reflect in your main weapon is also good.
Talismans - if you are lucky then Desire (mp consump) if no, Annihilation is enough. If you ask for Fort/Castle talismans - mdef, pdef, crit resistance, hp, pulling resistance.
Rest of eqp - +con/pdef/mdef hats, con stew, istina/octavis shirt, you can also start farm raid points for con bracelet
Also work on your dual class (% HP) and sub class ( pdef/mdef, cast speed, evasion) for passive skills.
For now - you should know if you feel comfortable in light in PvP. If yes and if you do not have problem you can use it till 99. You can try play with healt weapon (they are cheap, requiem is enough) and you can try change your dyes to con. Then i would say start work on Istina neck if you don't have yet, skill enchants, then r99 armor, then rings. Also there will be augment free event soon if i'm not mistaken so you can try active reflect.
Would be better if you can send me screen with your stats.
Good staff! Thanks a lot for all the info! It's really helpful so I can start from now build up my toon since I ve got 4 lvls to go. When I am back home I will send you a ss with my stats. :cool:
I am pretty sure you are not in a top clan with lvl 3 Holy Squad and and clan clarity lvl 5.
So get a buster/caster with x2 SA
As for the rest in cost efficiency ranking
Get pdef/mdef hats
Get Twillight belt pvp def
Get Freya
Get Stun resist coc earring
Get Istina/Octavis shirt
Get skills +4
Get +6 set
Get Enchanced Istina Wizard's Necklace (sell Freya)
Get Annihilation talisman
I don't remember last time when i was out of mana in pvp even on sieges (even when i was not in top clan). And i do have 3 mages in party. Nowadays for PvP healer really do not need mana up. Bonus from HP weapon count in PvP and if he will miss by any chance mana, well there are potions and rebirths.
I don't remember last time when i was out of mana in pvp even on sieges (even when i was not in top clan). And i do have 3 mages in party. Nowadays for PvP healer really do not need mana up. Bonus from HP weapon count in PvP and if he will miss by any chance mana, well there are potions and rebirths.
It's not about recharge.. it's about keeping your party alive.
In a medium clan health weapon won't matter much. Healer will die relatively easy even in eternal +6 set. (I mean w/o scripts for auto pots ofc)
While on the other hand extra mp will help. Especially if the healer can run and heal all the time.
Medium clans don't have 2 healers in pvp parties. They are lucky to have one.
DDs in medium clan don't have minimum cooldown on skills (especially UDs :p).
PS. He can try both weapons.. Some times it depends on your enemy.. That's why I am also saying to take both pdef/mdef hats. Some clans have a lot othels, some have a lot feohs.
Edit: Oh and most important: There are still obsidian gems around...get lvl 2 asap
Well, even if no one believe me i do not have scripts. But thank you for poiting out potions, i forget them.
Second, you would be surprised how bad gear i actually have :)
Honestly specialy if i'm in medium clan i would go for HP build. Mana up wont help you in pvp, HP will. You really should not go out of mana even with one healer when you have enchanted your skills at least to +5 for heals.
Daggers are problem in PvP now more than mages. It's kinda hard survive them without any defensive skills up.
As i always say: i can give people some advices, but only they should know which healer setup fit to their game play.
Well, even if no one believe me i do not have scripts. But thank you for poiting out potions, i forget them.
Second, you would be surprised how bad gear i actually have :)
Honestly specialy if i'm in medium clan i would go for HP build. Mana up wont help you in pvp, HP will. You really should not go out of mana even with one healer when you have enchanted your skills at least to +5 for heals.
Daggers are problem in PvP now more than mages. It's kinda hard survive them without any defensive skills up.
As i always say: i can give people some advices, but only they should know which healer setup fit to their game play.
I was not referring to you. I was just pointing out that a healer that uses auto pots has an extra reason to use hp build.
I have played healer in the past and I am currently playing Iss.
From my experience any healer belonging in a medium clan should go for acumen/ mana up.
Enemies of a medium clan are mostly medium enemies and the tank can lock down dagers and rest dds relatively easy.
But also auto playing scripts get confused when there are tanks in play.
So a medium clan even if it faces medium or top clans the healers will have to have a lot of mp to keep their tanks alive.
I don't agree with your argument about medium players. I don't know who is medium player for you and what equip they should have but i'm sure you would laugh very hard if i show you my eqp and i'm in top clan.
Every PvP party should have two healers and it doesnt matter if you play in top or low clan. Everything else is just an excuse. With one healer you will lose, because i doubt this one healer in party will have dark set +8, 16 AP and full boss set.
Mana won't help you in pvp when you are not able survive and when you are not able keep your party alive. HP will and again, doesnt matter in what clan you are. If you are in middle clan and you fight middle enemies, it's same as you are in top clan and you fight top enemies.
If you don't know basic knowledge about pvp nowadays you will lose anyway.
Your arguments left me speechless!
I am sorry. As a healer in PvP clans constantly fighting the strongest people in this game (= Nova) I can say that experience proofed that health weapon >> acu/mana up.
Is this better?
For PvE you can wear mysterious sword with acument and not use shots and you will be fine because you will use only 4 skills (chain heal, balance life, mass celestial shield and mass cleanse).
You actually ue Chain Heal in PvE? :) I forgot last time I used it in raids. Iss cover spikes on melee with healing melody. Othervise, it's Balance/group heal/tree/celestial/cleance. Point healing on tanks if they are stupid enough to not have attribute boost.
You actually ue Chain Heal in PvE? :) I forgot last time I used it in raids. Iss cover spikes on melee with healing melody. Othervise, it's Balance/group heal/tree/celestial/cleance. Point healing on tanks if they are stupid enough to not have attribute boost.
Ummm... Chain heal is 45 percent I think? Can be increased with sustain I believe as well. Group heal does maybe 5k heal? That is less than 10 percent on some classes and all classes depending on hp build. The regular heals are useless in pve. If all you do is raids like octa and istina then sure chain heal is rarely needed. Why should the iss be the one healing when it's heal is 10 percent less than yours? If you are doing aoe chain heal is the only useful heal because balance isn't reliable with such a long cd when you need to heal every 2-4 seconds. Also sustain is useful in many situations as a healer. At least cast it on yourself. Fairy is worthless.
You actually ue Chain Heal in PvE? :) I forgot last time I used it in raids. Iss cover spikes on melee with healing melody. Othervise, it's Balance/group heal/tree/celestial/cleance. Point healing on tanks if they are stupid enough to not have attribute boost.
I´d be glad to discuss the topic further with you once you will learn the basics of healer.
Obviously you never healed in SoA reptilicons, or in Orbis, in HF or at HB. It is not my problem you dont know how to play a healer. Actually I am quite glad cause people appreciate me in party because obviously there are way worse healers :-)
Your replies restore my faith in humanity a bit. I almost lost hope. I thought this stuff was extremely simple.
usual that is because robots/scripts not have humanity... normal players, who know what to do gladly shear experience with others but bots not replay, you not ask for codes to the replay to you :D
Only partially.. If there are more healers that think like this guy, then that is very troublesome. Sadly I box a healer better than most people can play their main :(
Ummm... Chain heal is 45 percent I think? Can be increased with sustain I believe as well. Group heal does maybe 5k heal? That is less than 10 percent on some classes and all classes depending on hp build. The regular heals are useless in pve. If all you do is raids like octa and istina then sure chain heal is rarely needed. Why should the iss be the one healing when it's heal is 10 percent less than yours? If you are doing aoe chain heal is the only useful heal because balance isn't reliable with such a long cd when you need to heal every 2-4 seconds. Also sustain is useful in many situations as a healer. At least cast it on yourself. Fairy is worthless.
As has been pointed out, this is about healing in PvP.
So I'll leave the calculations of mana efficiency of chain heal as your homework. They do not apply to pvp situations.
P.S.
When your tank run around with low HP, there's nothing better, than Cele->Balance.
Oh, and I do SoA daily. Never ever used CH there. And noone died as long as I'm alive, since I got party-wide Celestial.
I'm not pretending to rise the bonfire, but I wouldnt say @Theria hasnt a good point, although all the mess caused already. In pve, any heal casted would be worth, but surely Progressive Heal is the most ultimate in the factor, hands down. But when the things come to pvp, then she/he has some point, as during pvp the heal's aid from iss in fact are some quite or at same grade powerful as the healer ones, since sometimes healers are the 1st target, without counting that isses can avoid being targeted better than anyone else - dont need to go further or watch toons of vid of ppl on youtube to see that many of these pvp peeps lacks a lot of this understanding. Tell me, how many isses you have saw playing as an aid in pvp (healing, debuffing, cc'ing?), and not pretending to be a DD as the majority of they think they are?
About the OP wonders: well, just to help a bit, since you got so many powerful advices, but try to no screw you that much while trying to get the best setup, since they seems to tend changes tides for healer players at every major update (just take a look of what we had since the start - heavy armor abuse + wit setup, then light + heavy armor, then now robes + con setup).
For that health sa, just grabs or craft a vesper cutter or smtg below R grade (cheap weapon with cheap SA cost and bss cost aswell), and the most important of all: always keep track of your level progression (how fast you r doing it) and to what's coming next in the big update (tracks on rochand, some discuss forums or even offi kr site) - this way you will save or invest better your (I assume) short adena wallet.
I'm not pretending to rise the bonfire, but I wouldnt say @Theria hasnt a good point, although all the mess caused already. In pve, any heal casted would be worth, but surely Progressive Heal is the most ultimate in the factor, hands down. But when the things come to pvp, then she/he has some point, as during pvp the heal's aid from iss in fact are some quite or at same grade powerful as the healer ones, since sometimes healers are the 1st target, without counting that isses can avoid being targeted better than anyone else - dont need to go further or watch toons of vid of ppl on youtube to see that many of these pvp peeps lacks a lot of this understanding. Tell me, how many isses you have saw playing as an aid in pvp (healing, debuffing, cc'ing?), and not pretending to be a DD as the majority of they think they are?
Iss have to assist debuff/ crowd control / heal /angelic touch proper target and stay away from front lines, all at the same time and theyre just 1 per party. Chain heal also takes in count NPCs, random non flaged people nearby, and pets. It simply wont make it as great as 2 healers using it on a 7vs7 for example. Balance comes every 4 seconds ( lets say) from 2 healers, but dmg comes at high values every less than a second. How you plan to heal a tank with 100k hp using sacrifice on someone? with normal single target/group heal?
Also if iss is on brick, he cant do anything, a mage can 3-4 shto them anyway for the most part. Their heal is but a back up, not the real thing.
As has been pointed out, this is about healing in PvP.
So I'll leave the calculations of mana efficiency of chain heal as your homework. They do not apply to pvp situations.
P.S.
When your tank run around with low HP, there's nothing better, than Cele->Balance.
Oh, and I do SoA daily. Never ever used CH there. And noone died as long as I'm alive, since I got party-wide Celestial.
Ok you healer theoretist. The more you talk the more you confirm that you have no idea how to be a good healer.
First of all - there is not SoA like SoA. There are three regions which, at least in my time, had significantly diffent difficulties.
Second - how do you want to heal 10+k dmg received in PvP (I would like to point out that the strongest DDs in game can do A LOT more dmg. You can receive 50k+ dmg to non pvp set from dagger)? By your panic heal? By group heal? No, you have zero expecience about PvP and you have zero idea how to play healer in PvP. Chain heal belongs among the most important skills in PvP because there is no other skill which can heal such amounts of HP in such short time. No sane healer will heal HP by battle/group heal. Those are mainly used for healing CPs.
@Astarothy:
no, he hasnt point with chain heal. See above.
And the second point - no, you are not right about vesper cutter/health because you still need to restore CP in PvP and that is why you have to have the highest MA cutter as possible. The higher MA, the higher heals (in case you dont get it -> the higher heals, the more CPs restored).
Seriously people, if you have zero experience from PvP do not give advises to others.
Well i hope everyone here know how pvp party should have and i also hope no one here think that iss can be "second healer" in pvp. Every person in party have own role and iss is not here not for heal.
For an instant I thought you were talking about Clan Halls, then I realized...
@Theria, why do you talk about mana efficiency when you:
-can enchant Progressive Heal to +cost
-can use Rebirth to regenerate MP
-can use Mass Recharge to get MP back?
It's not like managing MP is something requiring an engineering degree...
In a perfect world, I would be running in a clan party, with people who know what they are doing, what to expect from other, and where is the limits of what they can or can not pull.
I'm not going to dicuss it here further, but I've been in situations, where I was uncareful with Progressive Heal's and was scrambing for even a small bit of MP to save the party. 200... 100, ****, even 50MP would've helped! Thankfully, rebirth came out of CD in time, and everyone was alive at the end of raid. In my party, anyway.
But, again, this is not the topic to discuss PvE situations.
Iss have to assist debuff/ crowd control / heal /angelic touch proper target and stay away from front lines, all at the same time and theyre just 1 per party. Chain heal also takes in count NPCs, random non flaged people nearby, and pets. It simply wont make it as great as 2 healers using it on a 7vs7 for example. Balance comes every 4 seconds ( lets say) from 2 healers, but dmg comes at high values every less than a second. How you plan to heal a tank with 100k hp using sacrifice on someone? with normal single target/group heal?
Also if iss is on brick, he cant do anything, a mage can 3-4 shto them anyway for the most part. Their heal is but a back up, not the real thing.
Well i hope everyone here know how pvp party should have and i also hope no one here think that iss can be "second healer" in pvp. Every person in party have own role and iss is not here not for heal.
Ok, guys. I think you both got me wrong and I'm lying misunderstood, afterall I've said in my previous post.If I did say @Theria wasnt totally wrong in her theory, I didnt fully support her either, as I know (and everyone that plays with me does know, too) that I'm a big fan-user of the commodity of PH in every situation - I kinda feel myself hurted when I see another healer just relying on single/group heals as their main skills to use.
@Zanerf, you pretty much re-said everything I've said in that post, but with other words. And if Iss's heal can heal not only pt members, but any NPC/passerby or non-mob thing that can be targeted, so does the healer's progressive aswell, since they tend to behave the same way. So the argument is invalid if we take it in this way of thinking. Btw, I just wanted to say that, apart for also have a heal skill out of all others warrior-type classes, Isses are the one that can avoid or totally prevent for being targeted (what healers cant do) or debuffed (via AT) - and this is a lot of a advantage, imo. No one smart DD will target an Iss often if not properly assisted, 'cause if he does, he will end losing 2-4s everytime due to losing his targeted 'cause of iss being polymorphed. Of course, in any moment I did state that an Iss can replace a healer role in pvp. There's just no way for this - at least not truly speaking.
That's being said, and taking the real meaning of what a support (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/supportive) or aide (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/aide) is meant to do, yet no one of you guys did answer my last wondering of how many Isse's you could name due to being a default player of the class? (although this is about healer's topic... :<)
@iNoisia: I didnt go further on your comment, but I'll leave this vid's link (http://youtu.be/0jO9HZBvf84) (wow, I luv'd the remix on middle of vid, it's breathtaking!), 'cause I'm sure it will help alot to elucidate the point I was talking about. And again, I didnt mention that an Iss can replace or overshadow any healer, since they roles are a bit different in their base.
I just hope you guys dont enforce the pseudo-isses anymore further of what we have now, although I'm sure a big percentage of you guys just bring the isses along 'cause of those shiny melodies and sonatas. A true bard life, indeed.
no, he hasnt point with chain heal. See above.
And the second point - no, you are not right about vesper cutter/health because you still need to restore CP in PvP and that is why you have to have the highest MA cutter as possible. The higher MA, the higher heals (in case you dont get it -> the higher heals, the more CPs restored).
Seriously people, if you have zero experience from PvP do not give advises to others.
Well, so we both are wrong since the start if you come to say that you'r aiming to achieve m. attack power with a warrior-type sword.
As for M. attack power, a vesper cutter has 176, an ama cutter has 278 against of a requiem buster with 252.
So you telling me that one should throw away a bunch of their hard earned money (as I'm guessing here... at least me and OP, whom I'm sure hasnt that flat wallet either) - talking about billions of adena - just to cover those 26 m. attack power difference and be more efficient at healing cp? You must be out of your mind if you meant it, for sho.
@iNoisia: I didnt go further on your comment, but I'll leave this vid's link (http://youtu.be/0jO9HZBvf84) (wow, I luv'd the remix on middle of vid, it's breathtaking!), 'cause I'm sure it will help alot to elucidate the point I was talking about. And again, I didnt mention that an Iss can replace or overshadow any healer, since they roles are a bit different in their base.
I just hope you guys dont enforce the pseudo-isses anymore further of what we have now, although I'm sure a big percentage of you guys just bring the isses along 'cause of those shiny melodies and sonatas. A true bard life, indeed.
What you wanted show me in that terrible pvp tank fraps?
We should move from this Iss theme since topic is not about enchanters role in pvp.
@iNoisia: are you serious about the questioning? Well, well... gonna see: since you directly stated that "no one here think that iss can be 'second healer' in pvp" and "and iss is not here not for heal" (the exact bolded parts in your quote above), I did put a link of a video of actual pvp'ers that does refute by their playstyle what you've said in that quote.
The discussion is valid 'cause in none moment I did want argue about Iss at all, but about the healing abilities of that class along with all the ways of avoiding been targeted, what is basically impossible to healers. Since we have Progressive Heal and Healing Melody working/behaving at the same exact way, from Lindvior update (http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3335674&postcount=19) on Devs stated that
However, "Healing Melody" had an issue of being better than heal skills of the healer classes. The MP cost has been increased for a wider selection of skills.
Being a default healer player, this is something to come in mind, and I dunno in what you've been based to state those quoted 2 sentences.
Also, it seems there's no Iss around with enough self-steem or "I must be a queen"'s soul to fraps their own footage, and I'll choose to believe you didnt waste all the video's timeframe watching the tank itself - since it wasnt the subject of my speech, but the Iss of the party - you dont need go further on the video, since you can see the Iss playstyle at the very beginning of it.
Anyway, I didnt think I'd need to be too obvious. Sry.
Look, i said iss cant be second healer in pvp - this is fact and i hope you agree with me. I didnt said they cant use their heal, but its not like they focus on this. Iss should debuff, control enemies with his para, use angel touch, control buffs etc. ress people, not just stay and spam heal. I hope you agree with me on that point.
So for me - if you go pvp with iss + healer and you think its ok for pvp and you dont need another healer, we can argue till end of the world.
Well, so we both are wrong since the start if you come to say that you'r aiming to achieve m. attack power with a warrior-type sword.
As for M. attack power, a vesper cutter has 176, an ama cutter has 278 against of a requiem buster with 252.
So you telling me that one should throw away a bunch of their hard earned money (as I'm guessing here... at least me and OP, whom I'm sure hasnt that flat wallet either) - talking about billions of adena - just to cover those 26 m. attack power difference and be more efficient at healing cp? You must be out of your mind if you meant it, for sho.
I dont understand your comment. I am saying that health SA is way better than acu/acumana up. AND I say that you cant have any health weapon but for PvP you have to have the highest possible MA cutter. There is big difference between Vesper and Ama cutter. The difference between apo and ama can be ignored if you dont have enough adena.
I repeat, if you dont have pvp experience, plz dont give advise. In PvP 1k difference in CP/HP healed can play role.
Could you please explain your comparison between ehalth weapon and acu weapon? I am pointing at your comment comparing vesper cutter with requiem buster. I tought we talk here only about health weapons.
Look, i said iss cant be second healer in pvp - this is fact and i hope you agree with me. I didnt said they cant use their heal, but its not like they focus on this. Iss should debuff, control enemies with his para, use angel touch, control buffs etc. ress people, not just stay and spam heal. I hope you agree with me on that point.
So for me - if you go pvp with iss + healer and you think its ok for pvp and you dont need another healer, we can argue till end of the world.
Probably we just missunderstand each other.
I'm totally sure with that last part. Furthermore, even with healing abilities being on par with healers, is common understanding that an Iss cant replace a healer at its full potential (except on 2x2 or very small pvps, for some good ones), but I just wanted to advertise you to dont enforce that type of thinking while playing with your CP Iss - because he has a healing skill and he can heal too, specially when his 2 healers are being smashed down by a dozen of DD in assisting mode.
I dont understand your comment. I am saying that health SA is way better than acu/acumana up. AND I say that you cant have any health weapon but for PvP you have to have the highest possible MA cutter. There is big difference between Vesper and Ama cutter. The difference between apo and ama can be ignored if you dont have enough adena.
I repeat, if you dont have pvp experience, plz dont give advise. In PvP 1k difference in CP/HP healed can play role.
Could you please explain your comparison between ehalth weapon and acu weapon? I am pointing at your comment comparing vesper cutter with requiem buster. I tought we talk here only about health weapons.
Well, I think you rushed on the reply buttong without taking the necessary time to comphreend what I've said in that quote - so I'll highlight to make it more "understanble", although I was sure it was since the very start.
1) It's ok, we all got that the build up for healers in this update is +HP, hands down on that. But although that equip'ing a health weapon is the best way around for now, a health weapon is what it is - a fighter weapon, what means in no way it's gonna scale the m.atck as a mage weapon does (and for the example I took the lowest R grade for mages - a requiem buster). Look again and do the maths - its only a 26 points of difference btw ama cutter (fighter weapon) and requiem buster (mage default weapon). Conclusion: if you wanna scale your matck higher, then you MUST to equip a mage weapon. All efforts in contrary will be wasted - so equip that cutter, but forget about aiming to matck, 'cause there's no way this one can be achieved by the using the cutter only.
2) As I've said, a vesper cutter (s80) has 176 matck, while the ama cutter has 278 and a requiem buster, 252. If you equip a ama cutter at '99, its the same as you equiping a requiem buster at that same level, based on the matck gain. The diff between the vesper and the requiem (a mage default weapon) is only 76 points, and you gotta remember that it's far far more easy to OE a s80 weapon that can be crafted in bucks (recipe and key mats at NPC grocery, and market items easily obtainable, too) than risk to poof the 99 one and lose the expensive weapon. Note that I'm not saying that isnt ok to get a r99 cutter, but only that the gain in matck (when compared with a default mage weapon) isnt worth, specially when we talk here for billions of adena. Also, the s80 weapon will carry the low cost sign on it, since its more easy to craft/OE/SA and you can aim to get a passive reflect with low cost on adena - smtg that is nearly to impossible with the 99 cutter, and God forbid devs change something in next update that forces healers to get on another build up, and end up with a bunch of warrior weapons at their hand.
3) About that 1k hp/cp healed back, if you dont bring a test and show us a unconstetable proof that 26 matck difference will generate a flat 1k HP/CP impact on heals while using panic/brilliant heals, so it is an invalid argument. Things that will turn that possible are: perma sustain + epic jewels and divine prayer + some set bonuses, and all these are non-dependant on matck factor, either.
Also, this statmenent "In PvP 1k difference in CP/HP healed can play role" - and you referred to matck having an impact in healing skills such panic/brilliant - there's no validate when you even said that for now on healers cant be dependant on single target heals - again panic/brilliant - and MUST to use progressive heal (that not rely on matck, but on % increasing items/buffs) to cover up all the damage spikes dealt by the stronger DDs of now. Can you be more clear, 'cause it seems a bit contraditory.
Just to summ it up, even a r99 cutter has matck equivalent to a requiem buster - and we need to do this comparison 'cause cutter isnt a default mage weapon, so it has no reference to be a matck factor. Also, all healers are changing to CON tats/con accessories/con stews/bracelets and trashing out all the WIT/INT ones besides oly. So only the weapon and the set themselves are providing the matck increase - what enforces that simply it is not worth to spend a buch of billions of adena just to get that deniable matck (and no, in no way a 26 more matck will give back 1k+ impact on heals).
I'm not beefing on you, just analyzing what you've said before. But paraphrasing the last quote of yours: "if you arent used to think twice on what you'r writing/speaking nor have a broad understanding of the whole scenario you'r talking about, plz dont give advise".
I dont know how to make it more simple.
a) health >> acu/acu+mana up
b) you cannot compare MA of buster and cutter because we agreed that health is better (go to check the difference in heals between vesper and ama cutter)
hence the goal is to get highest MA cutter as possible
If you still dont understand it, I cant help you.
Sorry I didnt read your long post because I know you have only minor pvp experience so you only theoretize :-) Do you want to know how I found it? Because pvp is not only about healing of HP. Healing HP is important part but if you want to win, you need to also restore CP and here comes the importance of low and high MA cutters. And do you know what is the most important thing which healer must do? Healer must not die. That is why all healers go to HP.
just to make it clear, since you seem more worried to insert me into the basics of the healers class/playstyle - I play healer myself, never played another toon as my main so I have enough understanding of what I'm talking about. You keep sticking to that acu/acu+mana up thing when I've never relationed those such words in one of my previous posts above and it's undeniably clear that CON setup for healers now in Valiance is commom understanding - it's not like anyone is giving away the philosopher stone, either. So are u sure I'm the one that is theorizing things out of thick air here? It doesnt seem so.
Just re-read what you just wrote and you'll find a total contradictory argument speech for your side. In one moment you say something, then you deny that same thing in your next post and twist infos and numbers at your wish - without mentioning the numbers you pick out of imagination.
And on top of that, I cant help much if you dont bother to read what it's written, to say it minimal. I feel like we are running a wide circle here, with no sign of it coming to an end - and pay attention that I did re-post the same exact thing twice and you keep ignoring and asking the same question already answered. So I'll break it down even more simplier than you did there:
Since you've said that a warrior weapon worth of a couple billions of adena and has the same matck power as one requiem buster (oh lord, stop it and open your mind, I'm not talking here about SA!) is able to cover a flat amount of 1k CP/HP when compared with a s80 one, just get as backup support some sort of ingame screenshoot proving this exact thing you r stating with so much fever.
So next time you do reply, please make sure to come up with a real prove of what you'r saying as truth (based on your large, enormous and well-known pvp experience, that no one knows but you), 'cause I thought we were discussing things here, and not picking synthesized truths like we were in a wallmart run - although it's clear you r willing to fool down whatever goes with a differente thinking out of what you've stated. So no help for both sides here.
Ok, for the last time. In case if you wont be able to understand than I apologize but I am not able to make it more simple.
a) health>>acu
b) no buster can have health SA
c) hence it is completely illogical compare MA of buster and cutter of any grade
d) PvP healer must not only heal but also restore CP
e) therefor you need as high MA cutter as you can afford
If you are playing a healer , and building for PVP , then you must understand all of your skills , how they work , how they behave , and by what they are influenced. And then , acording to your play style , make changes that you see fit so you can feel comfortable with your contribution.
There will allways be opinions on what is better , there is no such thing as BEST WAY . You must gain experience by playing , and if you cannot use your brain to adjust the character to your current needs , then you should reroll or quit.
The build that i see fit at this point is this :
Robe +7 ( or more if you can )
10con/5wit
Soul orfen/ Blessed freya or istina ( I'm not going into top epics , as i asume that if you can afford that you should know what to do by now)
1hand weapon Acu / emp + Shield ( However i use 2h weapon acu/emp , but i dont recomand that )
Istina shirt , con on every accessory you can get your hand on , and then ofc , talisman the higher the better.
This is my build , this is how i feel comfortable , this is how i think it works best for me.
( I asume PVE build does not matter at all , as you can get to 99 with any build you want as long as you know what your class does - you do not take damage , and you rarerly are put in a crisis situation )
Ok, for the last time. In case if you wont be able to understand than I apologize but I am not able to make it more simple.
a) health>>acu
b) no buster can have health SA
c) hence it is completely illogical compare MA of buster and cutter of any grade
d) PvP healer must not only heal but also restore CP
e) therefor you need as high MA cutter as you can afford
If this is not clear to you, I cant help you.
you know, you are contradicting yourself. firstly u say that hp is most important thing, that's why healers must go for cutter with health sa. than as a second statement u say, that cp restoring is important too, so we can assume, that more cp the better too. than why not to go with oe'd s gr duals that give +cp, hp and mp (in any case more mp can save your party)?
you know, you are contradicting yourself. firstly u say that hp is most important thing, that's why healers must go for cutter with health sa. than as a second statement u say, that cp restoring is important too, so we can assume, that more cp the better too. than why not to go with oe'd s gr duals that give +cp, hp and mp (in any case more mp can save your party)?
he's not contradicting himself, he makes very valid points, but some are misunderstanding him.
what hes trying to say is that a health sa'd weapon is the best option for healers(pvp wise ofc), and having a higher matk cutter is EVEN BETTER option.
so for example.. using a dark legions edge+health is good enough, still gives the +25% hp.
but say you can afford an apoc cutter+health then thats even better cause it will have higher matk than a DLE hence increasing heal power.
which brings us back to point "e) therefor you need as high MA cutter as you can AFFORD"
again i will say same as him
If this is not clear to you, I cant help you.
but i wish you the best.
he's not contradicting himself, he makes very valid points, but some are misunderstanding him.
what hes trying to say is that a health sa'd weapon is the best option for healers(pvp wise ofc), and having a higher matk cutter is EVEN BETTER option.
so for example.. using a dark legions edge+health is good enough, still gives the +25% hp.
but say you can afford an apoc cutter+health then thats even better cause it will have higher matk than a DLE hence increasing heal power.
which brings us back to point "e) therefor you need as high MA cutter as you can AFFORD"
again i will say same as him
If this is not clear to you, I cant help you.
but i wish you the best.
that's not realy true, tallum*dle gives 20% hp and 25% cp, and if u oe duals, u can get more m.atk than oe'ing any other fighter weapon. and i meantioned these duals becouse he said that cp restore (thats why max cp too) is realy important
Mate, if you dont PvP, plz dont give advices. You dont look good.
I PvP the first dmg gos to so called combat points (CPs) And as a healer you should try to heal these CPs before the dmg goes to so called hit points.
You confused weapon giving you CP bonus with restoring CPs by healing.
+8 Tallum/DLE is around 1/2 or 2/3 of MA of +3Apo cutter. Go to test the difference in healing with several weapons with different MA.
Aint the best stats that a healer can get but pretty much to be fighting Top clans,on really important stuff. U need something like this http://oi59.tinypic.com/qoh8py.jpg
Note i dont have +7 set or nothing really special,valiant scroll and weaver is a must on endgame pvp. Without them my hp is around 78k and not really having toooo much problems on pvp.
1) Health SA weapons > Acu ones. (The more HP you have, the more longer you will survive).
2) M.Atk. is also important coz it influences on Heal HP/CP power, so better to choose a R99 Cutter coz it have the highest M.Atk than lower Cutter grades.
3) Trade your light set for a robe one. (Because for you the Robe set will give better HP/P.Def/M.Def stats than Light set).
4) First make all your set elemented.
5) Get some cheap jewels (freya neck (-5% cd), zaken, orfen earring, any CoC earing/ring), if u can afford better stuff then go for istina/octavis ones, I'll exclude end-game gears for now).
6) Enchant first the Passive skills then Active ones.
7) Learn to manage your skills to save mana to do not run out so fast. (Balance heal and Chain heal are ur best friends, just use Panic heal if really needed, also always use fairy (low cost x benefit) and sustain (boost heals).
iNoisia doesn't have full AP, pretty sure she meant it as she said it, you get to so many HP and you can start doing other things. You could have a million HP, but if your made of paper it just makes for a much more jaw dropping crit someone can SS of them one shotting you. ;)
I always say - you need to test which play style fit for you. Because some people can feel comfortable with HP some with deff stats.
I have only 8 AP and i will not have more since i quit. But i've play for long time with dual HP then i change it to protection of light at some point and i was ok with this change. So as i said, test it and you will see what is good for you. There is always lot of different factors and depends only on people what they have (castle cloak, main clan skills, good gear etc etc)
I got a question about types of robe set.
Which is better to use Magic type or Recovery type and why?
i saw many ppl using magic type but since most pvp healers using full con on dyes isnt it better to go for recovery type that gives more casting speed?(i would like more opinions tho)
I used Magic type because of olympiad. Recovery type is more usefull because of stun resist. About cast speed, you can use frantic if you want max cast (even without wit dyes and acu weapon you will have 1999)
I got a question about types of robe set.
Which is better to use Magic type or Recovery type and why?
i saw many ppl using magic type but since most pvp healers using full con on dyes isnt it better to go for recovery type that gives more casting speed?(i would like more opinions tho)
Imoh depends alot on ur gear. +3 wit is around 60 casting speed or something like that. With rudolph u easy reach 1999 casting speed without daring or so.
Magic type set also give u the chance to have double duration on skills and ofc bit more heals.
If you want improove and if you want be really usefull healer in pvp, you have to pay. If people think they can play in basic gear without spending adena ... well you have choosed wrong game.
If you want improove and if you want be really usefull healer in pvp, you have to pay. If people think they can play in basic gear without spending adena ... well you have choosed wrong game.
Excuse me? People can still be useful and contribute to certain aspects of PvP without spending or going to the extremes. Noisia I respect you as a player, but I hope it doesn't wear thin due to arrogance.
I mean I play PvP just fine with 6+ S80 Vesper Noble. I'm not a fan of PvP because, to me, I feel like I don't accomplish anything, minus e-p33n bragging rights (which I could care less about). There's no structured ranking system or competitive scene. Its just pay to win or inefficiently waste your time on a game and win. I can't do either I'm sorry if that makes people feel bad.
In mass PvP I'm still useful as a support healer. I don't go with main groups, I usually go with archers and nukers and play a very supportive role with main groups. Mana battery and heals when one of my members takes fire. The key point is I'm still having fun and I'm contributing to my clan's efforts in a small way.
I guess being top dog and in the circle of meta gear players is some people's definition of fun, but for me I don't have time or money to devote myself to playing end game like a job.
Don't take it offensive but if you consider yourself like non pvp player, do not try make sense in topic, where people talk about pvp. And it's not about being in top clan. People in this topic want improove and when you want be real pvp player, s80 set is not enough, even if it's +6. They key point is having fun yes, i consider myself like pvp healer and i always was, because i had fun when we went out for pvp. And just fyi i never had top gear, i used to play with normal gear, i know lot of pve healers with better gear than i had.
Yes, this game is hardly pay to win and trust me, since i used to play pvp against Nova i know how much this fact affects game.
But, what i said is true. You need to spend adena to improove yourself if you want be really usefull (even if it's just basic things (r99 set, dyes, health weapon, jewels) like i had) and not one shot for everyone. I don't know clan where you play and i don't know your enemies. But - healer in s80 set - first target. For sure gear doesnt make people good players or good healers, but for healer is gear and good setup very very usefull. And it's not only about top end game pvp, it's in every clan like this. You need to be competitive, if you are not and you have smart enemies, it's very hard to be healer. In SH was way better healers that i ever was, there were healers with way better gear than i had. But from my healer pow in mass pvp, when you have weak healers = you are dead. So this is why we are trying here help people be stronger. Healer life is tough ;)
P.S. btw internet people mostly call me arrogant, it's fine. ;)
I'm still wrapping my head around how the OP of the thread will afford all his gear.
The total is over 1b...
Cant rly understand this reply. What people talk about it's pretty basic and u dont need to be hardcore to make "1b". And with CP u can get 5-6b worth items.
Ok, then I did give up on the nonsensical bullsh*t being spread by this Mister below - well, 'cause there's a limit to when you reach talkiing with @tards - I just had to come back and make a reminder pick up of all of this
Sorry. Health weapon >>acu/mana up.
I dont understand your comment. I am saying that health SA is way better than acu/acumana up. ...
I dont know how to make it more simple.
a) health >> acu/acu+mana up...
That is why all healers go to HP.
Ok, for the last time. In case if you wont be able to understand than I apologize but I am not able to make it more simple.
a) health>>acu...
then crowned by a rare gem of this same "known-it-all" guy, that just throwed everything what he stated above as the godly truth in the dumpster:
You are not right. +15 CON is useless for healer.
...
well, so after I had this masterpiece proof of how inconsistent and illogical my beloved interlocutor was during the whole debate of his useless tips, all I can do is to paraphrase the only insightful advise he gave on this whole thread:
If you still dont understand it, I cant help you .
I can tell you only one thing:
go to test how many HP will give you +15 CON and come back and write it here so everyone can read it. Because I know how many HP it is and therefor I know that +15 WIT deys are way better choice.
You compare some small fixed amount of HP (dyes) against 25% HP bonus. Have you been sick when you had been taught procentages in elementary school?
UPDATE:
because you obviously dont see pros and cons if somebody doesnt tell them to you I will do it for you:
CON - some small amount of HP and rather imaginary debuff resistance
WIT - 1 % cast speed per 1 point in dye, + M crit rate
So be so nice and stop sharing your "wisdom". If you play in some lower tier clan and dont do any PvP, you can play in any setup. If you dont have top possible equip and want to keep some competetion than use setup I mentioned.
Again, you fail to get what people try to bash you at. If you found out the worthless to use CON, the same can be said for WIT as thinking about a healer pvp setup. Casting speed and magic critical isnt even a factor for this classe while playing as pure support - but I'll let you struggle to get my words meaning into your head.
You clearly dont seems to know what even to use to get maximum benefits in a counter basis. But fear not, since you r a pure L2store wh*re as you stated before. Tap out of town w/o weaver/valiance/wind/rose buff on top? No way Sir.
Perharps you should continue on giving advise to people buy r99 cutters to get maximum matck as a healer and be a factor, while I'm still working to get how to get "a flat amount of 1k HP/CP healed back while just depending on the poor 26 matck difference bettwen a r99 and a s80 one" statement.
First of all - I never said people have to buy R99 cutter. I said, and I quote, "as high MA cutter as they can afford". Maybe the elementary schools in your country are not so much focused on understanding of written text and this skill is taught in higher types of education which you obviously did not have chance to attend.
Second - with cutter, you cannot have Acu SA therefore WIT dyes are useful. And Mcrit rate too, you just dont understand it.
Third - with Health weapon you are not one shot healer and therefore you have a chance to actually do your job and HEAL THE PARTY. Hard to do that lying on the ground
Fourth - you still did not write here the amazing benefit of +15 CON. Please do it. Please show to all people reading this topic how insane amount of HP you receive from +15 CON.
You, my friend, have absolutely zero idea about PvP healer. I am begging you, stop writing here. If you want to PvP, you have to do it with rose/weaver or even valiance scroll. If you dont like it, go to cry to your mom. And if you cry you obviously dont PvP because otherwise you would be used to this. So for the love of god: STOP SPREADING NONSENSES!!!
HP is very important. Daggers are currently very op, and you will need alot of hp to surivive them. Good ways of getting this is a health weapon, and ability points in all 3 trees for hp. Bad way to get this is using CON dyes, since they add very little, due to the fact that you are not a class with hp multiplier skills, nor a class with a naturally high hp base.
Matk is important. Heals that heal cp, of which you have 3, use matk to boost the heal amount. Therefore you want to have a weapon with as much matk as u can. If you are still abiding by the first paragraph for hp, this would be the highest cutter you can equip, since that also leaves your other hand free for shield/sigil.
M.crit is important. Perhaps even more important than matk, im not sure yet. But have ppl in your party lose all their cp, and then restore it by using single target heal. Check how much you heal when it doesnt crit, and how much it heals when it does. You will surely see why magic crit is important after this. This is why WIT is a good choice, you have a high wit to begin with, and get alot of benifit from it. WIT is not just used to make up for a lack of acumen SA.
M.crit is important. Perhaps even more important than matk, im not sure yet.
It is hard to me to agree with Smittie, but he is right. Mcrit is more important than Mattack.
If you would have to choose between Mcrit rate and MA, go for crit rate. But on other hand dont forget, that there is unwritten cap on crit rate around 33 % which means it doesnt make much sense to have more that 350 crit rate.
There was a test somewhere (too lazy to look) that proved that con has minimal affect on stun resistance it was so minimal that even with an extra 100 con the margin of error could have accounted for the results.
I was wondering about S Duals since I see people are going for HP weapons now, but this thread seems to have answered it. Oh well, still gotta keep mine for the 5 minute active reflect.
How much difference does m.atk make on heals now, a lot? It never used to make much difference. I guess I'll have to test ingame once servers are back up.
baium soul/istina ring wiz/B valakas/B anthy/istina ear
istina wiz neck if u cant get a B valakas
qa soul if cant get a baium soul
octavos ear instead B anthy
everyone says con is important for staying alive in pvp. I say its the party setup that is most important. the party has to know what to do to keep the healers alive. timing of ud's/celests are more important along with refresh times than whether u have this gear or that gear. obviously endgame its shown that cutters and robes are used now by the dominant pvp'ers.
look at the ap tree...healers cant use light to take adv of 16 ap....and all the healer passives are for robes so thats a no brainer(or is it)
the cutter or health weapon is because in todays pvp age its all about ud/celest and having the hp to stay alive until ud is up again.
but i suk at pvp so maybe one of the pro healers will comment