As I mentioned in another (now-deleted) thread, it's all about perspective and goals. If you define your success as "pwn the face off the other guys", then you'll always struggle to "win."
But if you define success as "have fun and play with friends / family," well... you'll never have a problem.
This game it and will always be "playing with friends and family" orientated.
I've been playing L2 on and off since C2 and i've just passed Lv92. I enjoy the game still heaps but, alot of the excitement have gone. I think that is just because it's so old...
New games are always gonna be the most fun ones, though a lot of new games have this linear boring cr*p like wow etc.
As I mentioned in another (now-deleted) thread, it's all about perspective and goals. If you define your success as "pwn the face off the other guys", then you'll always struggle to "win."
But if you define success as "have fun and play with friends / family," well... you'll never have a problem.
This, new players have to face the fact that if they want to "win" they need to open their wallets though, even old players returning to game that had "won" previously. Unless you want to pay this game is for casual fun and good times only. Don't expect to be a "factor" without your wallet. :p
Actually, im an old player and i am not appreciating anything. I'm a competitive player though, that may explain a lot of things.
I played while this was fun and you could just ignore the bots and cheaters, also i find older chronicles much funnier than what the game is now. I played seriously and for the win till The Kamael update then... i dont know... i just couldn't keep playing more. Don't ask me why.
Then i came back some years ago but to play very casual and for fun and it was horrible. Bots everywhere, RMT, hordes of cheaters. I quitted for good after being in Aden for some weeks reading everyday a guy shout he was looking for some DDs for a bot party...
Game is completely different than before, it's not a bad game... not at all. But well, if you sum the cheaters to this, everything just go to ****.
Edit 1: P.S: I forgot to mention this but, for all the people who has been playing for a lot of years; haven't you noticed like nowadays the amount of ******ed people is just too **** high ? Back in the day i couldn't remember finding such amount of noobs running around. I mean in the beta and C1 much of us were newbies but we learned things and usually quickly. But when i played some years ago the amount of NOOBS i found was just ridiculous; you could teach them how to do something and they still were repeating the same questions like stupids. Dont know, just something i noticed. In the other hand, for sure the amount of HUE is much, much bigger nowadays too. Whatever.
Truth is, the game would have been better than wow and set a different mmo industry standard. But bad management and p2w is what ruined it.
If you had good management, there wouldn't be bots or cheaters, and the legits with highest skill and time put into game would be on top. Would have been a different game imo. Completely different people would be playing it.
Truth is, the game would have been better than wow and set a different mmo industry standard. But bad management and p2w is what ruined it.
If you had good management, there wouldn't be bots or cheaters, and the legits with highest skill and time put into game would be on top. Would have been a different game imo. Completely different people would be playing it.
The only thing NC had to do to crack our market and be bigger than WoW ever was, was advertise, something they were told repeatedly and often by the playerbase. Did they ever listen ? No. Same as they never listened to a word the NA market said about gameplay and updates.
NC made a great game, but as a company trying to crack the NA market they are fail beyond belief.
The only thing NC had to do to crack our market and be bigger than WoW ever was, was advertise, something they were told repeatedly and often by the playerbase. Did they ever listen ? No. Same as they never listened to a word the NA market said about gameplay and updates.
NC made a great game, but as a company trying to crack the NA market they are fail beyond belief.
I would not use this word trying. It indicates they at least put in effort. I never saw any.
I would not use this word trying. It indicates they at least put in effort. I never saw any.
Well for one the game used to be sold in stores. Now it's unseen so you won't see that on a whim purchase player. Even if it was advertised the customer service is so bad who would wanna play
i probably would come back if they wiped the servers and made everyone start again from level one. Fresh start would be healthy for the game. Bunch of noobs pvping in Elven village!
Oh and the mothertree should be brought back to life.
Again...dumb. Go on your private servers who wipe theirs regularly. I however spent 10 years working on my accounts and would rather NOT have them wiped for silly tards like you.
They tried making this game too much like WoW. When Kamaels were introduced the game was killed along with apela and the other ****** armors. They wanted to appeal to new gamers with how cool some things looked. I guarantee if they made a server with an older chronicle a ton of people would join along with a few fixes on the classes that were just too strong. Anti-botting systems would be awesome and make it a low subscription fee.
i probably would come back if they wiped the servers and made everyone start again from level one. Fresh start would be healthy for the game. Bunch of noobs pvping in Elven village!
Oh and the mothertree should be brought back to life.
You do realize the game is completely different? It's not even L2 anymore. Everyone starts in the same town (you won't even recognize talking island anymore). All the layout lands of the game have been changed from medieval-ish to this hello kitty sparkles style with advertisements thrown in your GUI that you can't get rid of. Instanced leveling. 8 classes vs 34ish to choose from.
The game has become another WoW-wannabe.
You are talking about the chronicles before GOD, and they will never bring those back. Your best bet is a private server.
Again...dumb. Go on your private servers who wipe theirs regularly. I however spent 10 years working on my accounts and would rather NOT have them wiped for silly tards like you.
That's Chronic 1Peri1, not a PS player. :D
I think he's just saying it would be nice to play L2 again the way it was meant to be played. ;)
My husband are old players since 2004, then interlude. We quit the game when Gracia came out. We return to the game tonight and found everything has changed! Drops rate are even lower than it was in interlude! Leveling is so much faster now, i love to grind so miss that part! Im really confused with all their new sub class and mentoring system. Do we really need a mentor? Cant we level by ourselves? I reckon Interlude was the best & they shouldve kept it like that. Just sad to see a really good game go downhill like this.
We had to make new accounts because couldnt remember our old account password. Does anyone know if Ncsoft deletes old characters?
Yes, if its been that long since you last played they are wiped. On the mentoring thing, yes you want to get one, you get mentor buffs and a 100% XP increase while they are online, you will find a mentor thread in every server section, and plenty in game looking for mentee's. You also need to be mentored to get your diplomas for your free permanent gear once you hit 85.
Leveling is very fast now, but it slows down at 85, slows a bit more at 90, and you will really notice it starting to drag at 95, even so it isn't as hardcore as old L2.
The game is still playable. Its just the PvP that is dead. Doesn't work. Pay to Win swapped place with PvP. You need to choose. PvB and PtW or PvE.
PvE is still smarter and more fun. You get enough "smarter" PvP at Castle, Fortress Sieges and epic raid entries.
you cant even pve now. the bots are set for all rb's. last rb i did was baium. we had 114 port in and 1 party of bots stole the drop. epic fail, but just wanted to say bots/scripts have ruined the game, not f2p or pay to win.
you cant even pve now. the bots are set for all rb's. last rb i did was baium. we had 114 port in and 1 party of bots stole the drop. epic fail, but just wanted to say bots/scripts have ruined the game, not f2p or pay to win.
Well yes this is true when you talk about the regular once. But those level 98-99 who requires some organization, you wont find any bots. But they are heavily camped ofc.
My husband are old players since 2004, then interlude. We quit the game when Gracia came out. We return to the game tonight and found everything has changed! Drops rate are even lower than it was in interlude! Leveling is so much faster now, i love to grind so miss that part! Im really confused with all their new sub class and mentoring system. Do we really need a mentor? Cant we level by ourselves? I reckon Interlude was the best & they shouldve kept it like that. Just sad to see a really good game go downhill like this.
We had to make new accounts because couldnt remember our old account password. Does anyone know if Ncsoft deletes old characters?
U need to ask NCWest for your old accounts. If you say that they are from Interlude than they were payed so can be that NCWest keep them. But so and so Interlude top gears are not more than trash now.
It is better to get a mentor beacuse with mentor u get more EXP and more important diplomas for R Gears with which u can get to 95.
Well for me the fact is that GoD killed L2.. now we have some leftovers.. I even gave my toon to a friend.. a few months back lvled another toon.. but still it isn't the same.. I get bored after 15 minutes of play. PVE is dull.. classes not diversified enough.. etc.
PVP atm.. either you can put 15k USD on the table.. or better not bother with it.
Top PvPers atm spend thousands in PVP scripts, gear, adena.. and for a random to touch them it's going to either cost you a lot of RL Money.. or family/friends.. because you can't have a life and play in top PVP at the same time.
i have since come to realize something very important.
these players are investing in their hobby. the same as anyone wanting to learn Golf, or play Football; yu pay money for equipment and to belong to a club where you can practice, grow your skill, and eventually compete among equals.
L2 is no different - you invest in order to hone your skill; while it is questionable how much skill a botter might have, remember they don't abandon the bot in order to compete. it is still used, like a golfer using a golf club. using the tools you invest in to get better and play harder.
so i can't fault botters; moreover it begs the question why NCsoft doesnt legitimize that behaviour.
What it implies is a change in all the rules and how everything has been till this day. Maybe he's right. Maybe he's not.
The only thing i know is to date all what is scripts, RMT and bots are not permitted. This means the people that are using them are not following the rules of conduct in this product, which means they should be kicked immediately. Shamefully the guys that are running this game can do little or nothing to protect their laws. So we are in no man's land.
As a player who respects the rights of others, i know that where my freedom to do whatever i want ends, the freedom of other player to do whatever he wants begins. And in the current state of the game, this delimiting lines are the rules of conduct. So when i found somebody breaking this rules i feel ******* ****** off. Mainly because i feel cheated as a person and not because the other person is using bots, scripts or whatever.
i have since come to realize something very important.
these players are investing in their hobby. the same as anyone wanting to learn Golf, or play Football; yu pay money for equipment and to belong to a club where you can practice, grow your skill, and eventually compete among equals.
L2 is no different - you invest in order to hone your skill; while it is questionable how much skill a botter might have, remember they don't abandon the bot in order to compete. it is still used, like a golfer using a golf club. using the tools you invest in to get better and play harder.
so i can't fault botters; moreover it begs the question why NCsoft doesnt legitimize that behaviour.
Hi, the voice of logic here. Just thought I might say a few words on this claim.
Hobbies are great, especially competitive ones:
Sports
Martial Arts
Programming
Poker
The list goes on...
Each competitive hobby has a set of rules. Is it investing when the following happens or is it cheating which should result in punishment?
Golf player nudges the ball a little closer to the goal when no one is looking just before he takes the shot.
Basketball player knocks down a player to get the ball
Martial artist brings a weapon to an empty-hand sparring tournament (legal tournaments)
The programmer throws in some hacks to make it look good and sell to customers
The poker player has cards behind his sleeve
...
I mean they all were just "investing in their hobbies" right?
Well let me tell you how this would work in the real world...
The golf player gets kicked off the course never to return.
The basketball player costs his team a few points by giving away penalty shots (and repetitive behavior will get him kicked out of the NBA).
The Martial artist shames the school he is with, and is disqualified (and possibly arrested if he seriously injures someone).
The programmer sells his program then gets sued when the customer finds out he got sold a hacked up program that breaks when you blink the wrong way, and his reputation is ruined never allowing him to work in that profession again.
The poker guy well depending on where he is playing (gets kicked out, gets a beating, or looses his fingers).
But hey, these guys were all just investing in a hobby right? So say what you need to in order to stay in your own little world and believe cheating is indeed 100% acceptable.
But hey, these guys were all just investing in a hobby right? So say what you need to in order to stay in your own little world and believe cheating is indeed 100% acceptable.
I was begining to think that no one will respond to all the silly things that were said in the upper posts. It's not an investment, it's just another way to get around the system. If people start thinking that botting is an investment, than I truly feel sorry for these people. :(
This, new players have to face the fact that if they want to "win" they need to open their wallets though, even old players returning to game that had "won" previously. Unless you want to pay this game is for casual fun and good times only. Don't expect to be a "factor" without your wallet. :p
Good Point here, However we all know its not your wallet is DADDYS and we all know it. So before you even stat the fact of being a factor, grow up go to work earn your own money and stop using Daddy's Deep Deep Deep pockets! FACTOR of life we all know!
Yes, if its been that long since you last played they are wiped. On the mentoring thing, yes you want to get one, you get mentor buffs and a 100% XP increase while they are online, you will find a mentor thread in every server section, and plenty in game looking for mentee's. You also need to be mentored to get your diplomas for your free permanent gear once you hit 85.
Leveling is very fast now, but it slows down at 85, slows a bit more at 90, and you will really notice it starting to drag at 95, even so it isn't as hardcore as old L2.
Yet again for someone with Deep Pockets you know very little about the game what a surprise.
Go to the NPC in Gludio and get the Academy Circlet gives you also a 10% XP bonus from 1 to 84, but you need to be in a clan and in the Academy!
except the hobby isn't "playing L2" as much as it is "competitive pvp accross many games"
a player will invest in a hobby like this to create reknown clans of competitive pvp. will invest in this as a hobby to be part of that clan.
take Eve. real world money invested in the game to drive massive economy; players in that game use out-of-game tactics and tools to win trust, and cripple the opposition.
same goes for L2; you join nova by applying through their boards. they vet you out of game. then they vet you in game. the trust is won and eventually players begin throwing pvp and hero spots.
it isn't always about winning; even the best NBA team intentionally loses sometime, and officials can be corrupt as well.
FIFA is one of the most corrupt organizations on the face of the earth - the world cup is fixed and has been for years. that much is completely evident by the refs themselves, refusing to utilize video replay to award penalties and pause the game.
the bot itself isn't the hobby. the game is not the hobby either. it is the power of the player to play the game.
why do you think gamers make superpowered computers when their games will never utilize the system specs? this L2 is a game still optimized for DUAL CORE processors. the rest of the computer is housing programs and spreadsheets and a zillion assorted files that assist "professional" gamers in the quest for reknown.
same as a golf bag.
it contains golf clubs sure, but it is carried by a caddie. that caddie is the edge on the field - the knower of the grass, the measurer of the windspeed, and a crutch for the golfer to use to get the best information possible and make a shot.
the bots in L2 are just the sticks in the golf bag; the competitive edge is not found in the bag, they are just another tool in the repertoire.
thats why they should be legal.
playing L2 without a bot means you arent even trying, and have no ambition. indeed playing L2 without a bot means you are only playing the content. you are not playing the game.
i have since come to realize something very important.
these players are investing in their hobby. the same as anyone wanting to learn Golf, or play Football; yu pay money for equipment and to belong to a club where you can practice, grow your skill, and eventually compete among equals.
L2 is no different - you invest in order to hone your skill; while it is questionable how much skill a botter might have, remember they don't abandon the bot in order to compete. it is still used, like a golfer using a golf club. using the tools you invest in to get better and play harder.
so i can't fault botters; moreover it begs the question why NCsoft doesnt legitimize that behaviour.
Uhhhh to hone your skill you invest time, not money. No botter is "honing their skill" by leaving their bot programs running. For your analogies, the golfer doesn't buy new golf clubs and instantly become PGA material, the football player doesn't buy new protective gear and can suddenly run touchdowns while plowing through everyone. Ever see people that are high level and don't know anything about the game? That's because they either "invested" money on the character to acquire it, or they "invested" in bot scripts, not in actually honing their skills.
No botter is "honing their skill" by leaving their bot programs running
indeed, that's not what i was implying.
the skill comes after. once the bot fails for example to control mana, or clear a train. fails to recognize a player casting hide. fails to counter a backstab.
you have to fail to succeed.
you have to hit it into the water. even the best pga players do it.
the skill comes after. once the bot fails for example to control mana, or clear a train. fails to recognize a player casting hide. fails to counter a backstab.
you have to fail to succeed.
you have to hit it into the water. even the best pga players do it.
So basically you are saying you need to bot and have that bot fail at things to succeed?
if you are a professional gamer you are a bot, but much more than that you are a bot in every game you play. in call of duty you are aimbot.
if you are playing the game - not merely playing the content of the game but playing the game of "top gamer" you are on the level of steroid using sports players.
you can play L2 without a bot sure; but it means you arent trying to be a master of the game, just another player with some friends that maybe does a raid and maybe does a siege - you arent trying to win the game, nor win all the games you play.
hobbies make money.
hobbies make you spend money.
you don't be a hobbyist sculpter without spending money at least in Clay. you make money at that.
same with gaming, you spend money on the tools of the hobby; the PC, the Net, the Bot, and the Game all cost something. you make money selling the reapings of your skill - who do you think farms ant queen rings? people who have spent their skill getting the tools, accounts, and time searching for the way to keep a lid on that boss. in the days of 1USD per Million adena, they were making a grand per AQ ring - off other pro gamers who would drop the dosh to get ahead.
yes its legit posible (and always has been) to get legit Billion adena for that ring, or toe-to-toe against the farmer in charge of the AQ. perfectly legit.
but you bring a knife to a gunfight at that point. you are facing someone with more skill, more invested time, and better tools.
no, you don't have to bot to get ahead. but the bots get there faster, and by the time you have caught up they are ahead again.
it is simply a matter of who plays harder, and as ridiculous as it sounds, the bots play harder than anyone.
You say if you are a professional gamer you are a bot. But that's actually all the contrary in my opinion. This is not about playing harder spudnik this is about using shortcuts to achieve victory. When you do RMT you are using a shortcut, same as when you bot or use scripts.
I think all this are tools to make the game experience easier.
And actually if am playing a game without using bots, actually i'm trying to be a master. The harder way you take is the one who leads mastery. By using cheats and scripts and RMT you are only taking the easy way.
I simply think the opposite, scripters and botters play easier, much easier.
In other words anybody can bot and use scripts, but only a few can achieve success without them. Thats the difference. That's the mastery.
And the biggest irony about all this is that the person who takes the hard way will hardly ever surpass the person who takes shortcuts. And there lies the confusion about botters being better players rather than legits.
if you are a professional gamer you are a bot, but much more than that you are a bot in every game you play. in call of duty you are aimbot.
if you are playing the game - not merely playing the content of the game but playing the game of "top gamer" you are on the level of steroid using sports players.
you can play L2 without a bot sure; but it means you arent trying to be a master of the game, just another player with some friends that maybe does a raid and maybe does a siege - you arent trying to win the game, nor win all the games you play.
hobbies make money.
hobbies make you spend money.
you don't be a hobbyist sculpter without spending money at least in Clay. you make money at that.
same with gaming, you spend money on the tools of the hobby; the PC, the Net, the Bot, and the Game all cost something. you make money selling the reapings of your skill - who do you think farms ant queen rings? people who have spent their skill getting the tools, accounts, and time searching for the way to keep a lid on that boss. in the days of 1USD per Million adena, they were making a grand per AQ ring - off other pro gamers who would drop the dosh to get ahead.
yes its legit posible (and always has been) to get legit Billion adena for that ring, or toe-to-toe against the farmer in charge of the AQ. perfectly legit.
but you bring a knife to a gunfight at that point. you are facing someone with more skill, more invested time, and better tools.
no, you don't have to bot to get ahead. but the bots get there faster, and by the time you have caught up they are ahead again.
it is simply a matter of who plays harder, and as ridiculous as it sounds, the bots play harder than anyone.
Oh I see so you are just saying you need to be a bot to be a master at the game. That makes much more sense. Good on you. Btw, there are MANY professional gamers that do not bot. Professional Starcraft players, League of Legends players, DotA2 players, go look at MLG, none of those professional players are bots. So with that, your "argument" is pretty much nullified. And before you try to disagree with that, remember you said
if you are a professional gamer you are a bot, but much more than that you are a bot in every game you play. in call of duty you are aimbot.
btw LoL DoTA2 and Starcraft have leagues with rules, effectively filtering the bot element out of their games. you only hear or see pro league players because their games describe a need for gaming purity.
a niche if i ever saw it.
L2 and dozens of other games make no such attempt at filtering.
Yet again for someone with Deep Pockets you know very little about the game what a surprise.
Go to the NPC in Gludio and get the Academy Circlet gives you also a 10% XP bonus from 1 to 84, but you need to be in a clan and in the Academy!
Deep pockets ? I don't spend a dime on this game........ I simply stated facts. Having a mentor gives you a 100% XP boost and buffs while the mentor is online, without having to use the adventurer guide.
That circlet is a separate XP boost, has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, you need to learn to read. There are many other XP boosts you can buy from the L2 store as well, I never went into that, nor shall I.
Everything I said that you quoted is 100% accurate, you just need to learn to read.
This thread has become a fairly interesting read, I can't believe anyone is advocating botting, RMT or scripting though, all of those things eroded L2 along with developers trying to make L2 more trendy with each update until we have what we are currently stuck with, an L2 that no longer even resembles the game we had all grown to love.
btw LoL DoTA2 and Starcraft have leagues with rules, effectively filtering the bot element out of their games. you only hear or see pro league players because their games describe a need for gaming purity.
a niche if i ever saw it.
L2 and dozens of other games make no such attempt at filtering.
A professional gamer is someone that makes money from gaming tournaments, and endorsements, and in many other games than what you listed. I challenge you to find one that cheats, or is a known cheater, you won't as his endorsements would dry up and he would be banned from all tournament play.
oh indeed. absolutely. thats why so many tournaments define cheating on their own terms.
some sports give no f**ks about steroids. some do.
thats why i can understand why certain games take a stand with their agreements, and others are slack; with LOL and Starcraft the endorsements and paychecks are paid on the basis that they play legit - win or lose.
certain other games pay only if you win, and that gives a little wiggleroom for "officials" to overlook cheating on one side or another.
D2 for a long time had a big problem with bots in their ladder. along came authenticators and ladder resets, it dissipated for a while but to a degree its still around.
every tournament is dependent on the referee or official to also play straight and people don't realize that until they see it for themselves.
pro gaming is still in its infancy, but make no mistake, some games don't need bots to gain the advantage. some games just need out of game communication. Leage of Legends is such a game. TF2 is another.
for years Counterstrike suffered wallhax and aimbot.
Pro gaming isn't in its infancy, some games and team play entering into it yes are somewhat. There have been tournaments all the way back to stand up arcade console days, and gamers that lived off them and got endorsements.
You're missing some of the biggest world and regional tournaments with your classification, like MK, Madden, stuff like that with tourneys held all over the world and year round in Vegas culminating in the world championships there.
Open tourny's have smaller cash prizes, but you get ranked and maybe get endorsers, from there you go to the pay tourny's, which if you have endorsers pay your fee's, rank there and you go to the invitational tourny's.
On CS, I will agree with you, there have been some known "scandal's", as for D2 or LoD I am aware of its problems from back when I was in the ladders and I am sure its gotten worse, but that was always small potatoes and by no means considered professional.
but thats where pro's start. in the small potatoes. thats where pro gaming got its infancy.
mk tournaments started in a guy's basement.
televised tournaments with million dollar prizes began with America's Army; a tournament rife with controversy mainly in the decision to make Gaming a pro-league sport.
I somewhat agree with spud on what he was saying from the beginning. The botting being an investment into their hobby is kinda farfetched for me. The RMT side of it however I see as an investment into the game more than I do cheating. When somebody comes along that does not have the ability to put in the time needed to catch up to the people that do, they use their money to close the gap. There are people out there that have jobs, families, obligations, etc that prevent them from being able to log in and play 12+ hours a day. However the money they have does afford them the luxury of being able to spend money on the game for the things that they can not obtain normally. We all know that to get end-game items you need a clan that farms them and you have to be extremely active in most cases. If you are a person that plays on the weekends and weeknights sometimes you may not have that.
As somebody else stated above it is against the rules so it is not condoned but people do it and everybody knows it. You see a guy show up one day with +12-16 weapon and pvp set and what not and you just know. Does it upset me though that somebody would do that? no it doesn't. If I put in 10 years to get where I'm at and he put in 15k dollars then so be it. That's one more person that can compete on my level and in the end adds to my overall game experience.
Why do people get so upset about it? In my opinion the ones that are the most upset by it are the ones that have neither the time nor the money to do either and simply cannot obtain the level of gear that the person with money can. There are some older players that are upset by the fact that it took a long time to get what you have and they obtained it rather quickly but the older players also soon come to realize that the person that just bought all their gear still sucks horribly at the game.
Either way that's my opinion. The topic sparked a little interest so I thought I would add my 2 cents.
Me honestly I don't care what joe blow spent to get his gear,adena and levels. I however am irritated by the fact that the cheating under all categories is still rampant and nothing has ever been done to reduce it or stop it. It's either ignore it and try to do your business or quit.
The store aspect of it is well at your own budget which puts some at a disadvantage I guess. Could I potentially blow 10 grand..yes I can,but no adult in their right mind would do that. Not for the sake of being the best on the server. It's pixels..you own nothing and it can be shut down anytime and then it's just POOF gone. Any top botter will tell you that you suck when he in fact got his levels botting,his gear was bought with real money and he can't play his toon worth a lick,but you still a scrub who can't play.
thats exactly the line you cross to define who you are and what video games mean to you.
in 10 days time i am dropping about 13 000 real dollars on my new 3d printer and a software bundle; because i am taking up a new hobby.
13 000 in L2 if that was still my hobby would put me ahead of quite a number of players now that the NCoin store is here. it would all be black market in 2011.
the NC store has allowed people to spend their money legally buying digital content; however you rightly define it as "pixels"
pixels mean a lot when you pay money for them; it no longer is a game it is a sport, a hobby, or a literal vested interest. a competition. a race.
this is what people do, it is altogether normal, and is unfortunate that it must be labelled cheating.
if you were trying to make a garage band into a rock star group, you'd invest in a booth, some audio software and invest time in that goal.
that's the level of player you need to be in order to play against iMartelx and Diego_vargas. they have put the time in. they have put else aside to commit. they are in it to win it and their mettle is constantly tested - no less than by people with the same level of commitment - to win at all costs or die trying.
if you don't blow the money on the game you can't really be considered as "playing the game" only "playing around" "wasting time"
"any top botter" will say you suck but only in that he has a competitive edge over you that you have very little chance to overcome; unless as you rightly point out he abandons the aid of the tool he uses as a crutch but that is comparatively speaking like pitting mike tyson (you) against stephen hawking (them) in a fight to the death.
you are either hardcore, or you arent. there can be no middle ground. if you arent hardcore you best stop complaining.
thats exactly the line you cross to define who you are and what video games mean to you.
in 10 days time i am dropping about 13 000 real dollars on my new 3d printer and a software bundle; because i am taking up a new hobby.
13 000 in L2 if that was still my hobby would put me ahead of quite a number of players now that the NCoin store is here. it would all be black market in 2011.
the NC store has allowed people to spend their money legally buying digital content; however you rightly define it as "pixels"
pixels mean a lot when you pay money for them; it no longer is a game it is a sport, a hobby, or a literal vested interest. a competition. a race.
this is what people do, it is altogether normal, and is unfortunate that it must be labelled cheating.
if you were trying to make a garage band into a rock star group, you'd invest in a booth, some audio software and invest time in that goal.
that's the level of player you need to be in order to play against iMartelx and Diego_vargas. they have put the time in. they have put else aside to commit. they are in it to win it and their mettle is constantly tested - no less than by people with the same level of commitment - to win at all costs or die trying.
if you don't blow the money on the game you can't really be considered as "playing the game" only "playing around" "wasting time"
"any top botter" will say you suck but only in that he has a competitive edge over you that you have very little chance to overcome; unless as you rightly point out he abandons the aid of the tool he uses as a crutch but that is comparatively speaking like pitting mike tyson (you) against stephen hawking (them) in a fight to the death.
you are either hardcore, or you arent. there can be no middle ground. if you arent hardcore you best stop complaining.
Hobbies cost money, and sometimes they make you some money. I know when I place an order for making my bath and beauty supplies I have to invest money in order to make money. I can't just walk into any store and buy the things I put in my products, I have to order so there's shipping costs. Given I have been hiatus on my making products due to the fact I'm going to move within the month. So I agree, however deep you are into in any hobby it will cost you money, how much well that depends on what you can spend at any given moment.
I think a lot of the 8-10 year players are getting a little older and have more adult things to worry about than L2..at least that's what I've observed more than twice and it's even true for myself.
Deep pockets ? I don't spend a dime on this game........ I simply stated facts. Having a mentor gives you a 100% XP boost and buffs while the mentor is online, without having to use the adventurer guide.
That circlet is a separate XP boost, has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, you need to learn to read. There are many other XP boosts you can buy from the L2 store as well, I never went into that, nor shall I.
Everything I said that you quoted is 100% accurate, you just need to learn to read.
This thread has become a fairly interesting read, I can't believe anyone is advocating botting, RMT or scripting though, all of those things eroded L2 along with developers trying to make L2 more trendy with each update until we have what we are currently stuck with, an L2 that no longer even resembles the game we had all grown to love.
Honestly I can. You would be lucky to find any legit players playing this game. That's one big reason I quit long ago. Most legits have moved on. I just come here at forums to make fun every once in a while, but that's it.
I just say a few words when delusional's like to justify cheating is all. But you can't reason with people who lie to themselves...
Honestly I can. You would be lucky to find any legit players playing this game. That's one big reason I quit long ago. Most legits have moved on. I just come here at forums to make fun every once in a while, but that's it.
I just say a few words when delusional's like to justify cheating is all. But you can't reason with people who lie to themselves...
i have since come to realize something very important.
these players are investing in their hobby. the same as anyone wanting to learn Golf, or play Football; yu pay money for equipment and to belong to a club where you can practice, grow your skill, and eventually compete among equals.
L2 is no different - you invest in order to hone your skill; while it is questionable how much skill a botter might have, remember they don't abandon the bot in order to compete. it is still used, like a golfer using a golf club. using the tools you invest in to get better and play harder.
so i can't fault botters; moreover it begs the question why NCsoft doesnt legitimize that behaviour.
U cant come to the golf club and piss on the grass and on other players or s..t in the midle of sauna. And botters do this, they dont respect the rules of the golf club and for this they must be banned.
U cant come to the golf club and piss on the grass and on other players or s..t in the midle of sauna. And botters do this, they dont respect the rules of the golf club and for this they must be banned.
I doubt they care, they have goals and pleasing you isn't one of them. You're in the way like a pesky fly!
U cant come to the golf club and piss on the grass and on other players or s..t in the midle of sauna. And botters do this, they dont respect the rules of the golf club and for this they must be banned.
You may be correct. But using your golf course analogy, The person who comes to the golf course and pays to play gets to go ahead of you, gets a cart, gets a membership, and gets served drinks anywhere on the course. While you who is playing for free or just came by to visit you can walk your *** down the course and don't expect any sort of special treatment or for anybody to even acknowledge that you are there.
You may be correct. But using your golf course analogy, The person who comes to the golf course and pays to play gets to go ahead of you, gets a cart, gets a membership, and gets served drinks anywhere on the course. While you who is playing for free or just came by to visit you can walk your *** down the course and don't expect any sort of special treatment or for anybody to even acknowledge that you are there.
Assuming it's within the rules. Like ncCoins. What we are talking about here is something like RMT (which is against the rules) cheating (which is against the rules).
If a guy off the street pays PGA enough money, do you think they are going to allow him to win even though he lost in the game with the world watching? No, they wouldn't risk getting shut down.
If a first timer pays a little extra to get better golf balls, clubs, and round the world caddies, do you think that will help him win the PGA title? No, it's skill and not what you have that makes you win.
In L2, it's what you have that makes you win in pvp - gear, levels, overenchanted skills, territory (banners? - +3 stats), pvp scripts, and pvp 3rd party programs.
Coming here and trying to say "well I'm just investing in my hobby" is an idiot excuse to take the shortcut to win at your hobby (all while you are most likely telling the enemy legits how much they suck). But honestly... it doesn't surprise me you started thinking this way, since nc has let it go on for this freaking long. And honestly, we are long passed the point where any legit truly cares.
My point is why come on here and tell yourself cheating isn't really cheating? Nobody cares. So what! you cheat! NC doesn't care, players don't care, legit ones who mostly quit and the ones who still play don't care. So why defend it? why?
But hey, don't listen to a legit. Keep telling yourselves whatever you need to. I just don't see any reason for still being in denial about it is all.
I'm legit. We aren't that rare. sheesh
I quit before GOD and knew maybe less than 15 people out of the entire server who were legit. That was what, 3 years ago? We aren't that rare? Really?
Well this topic went astray on botting.. anywho.. My husband and I are old school players from around 2005-2007 and botting was prevelant back then. Anyways.. We came back maybe a week ago, and we're actually enjoying the game. It's nice that things have been changed and added. So much has changed, the game is easy to level now and it may look like the old l2 but it's mostly different. It all depends on what you're looking for in a game also as to whether you think it's worth your time or not.
it is simply a matter of who plays harder, and as ridiculous as it sounds, the bots play harder than anyone.
I can't believe I'm taking the time to respond. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion spud but you just debunked your own with this statement. The "BOTS" play harder. Exactly! The player can go to sleep while his bot levels up and collects loot with absolutely no human intervention other than to start the bot on its rounds. So is the player honing any skill whatsoever? No sir!
The extent of automation in this game should be the use of macros that they allow. I use them when boxing a healer. I still have to know when to cast heal, or oh crap battle heal, or cure poison or wtfever else though. The only thing they do is simplify a few keystrokes, all the thinking and decision making is still done in my head and executed by me pushing buttons. Oh and if I happen to push the wrong button I am presented with some more interesting decision options to maybe fix what I just screwed up.
Bottom line is all these bot trains can be set in all the hunting areas to run 24/7 so when the legit player gets off work or out of school with just a couple hours to play, they spend a good chunk of that time looking for a free zone or have to compete with the train.
I haven't personally had the pleasure of pvp with a scripted player yet but I'm sure that when I do I will have a decision - suck it up and keep going or move on to WoW/ GW2/Skyrim or my PS4. Automated players can and do affect the rest of us whether you want to admit it or not. Yes it's true I no longer have to pay but that in no way makes it more palatable.
honing skill - not in direct sense. honed skill is an over-time thing. botting for exp is one form of earning an advantage over the next player. so for example two level 93 players, one starts botting and gets 94 faster than the other, will have a distinct advantage.
you misunderstand what botting is, fundamentally. what you describe is merely learning how to play the game. what the buttons do. its very easy for a healer to go out of mana, or overheal, or pull aggro, or incalculable combinations of other very terrible things JUST FROM PUSHING THE WRONG BUTTONS AT THE WRONG TIME. thats how you earn skill. playing extended periods of time - and who plays longer than a bot? i argue very few. so the bots are refined with each passing day by the player. use UE, use balance life instead of heal. etc.
because it is a script, it has artificial intelligence. it knows how to react faster than you. it knows how to counter you. when it comes time to compete, they don't abandon the script and are suddenly terrible and easily killed. they bring the script with them. they refine it with each fight like any user refining his skill.
you only face bots in their pve zone and they will lie down and die without a problem. they know eventually you will log out. their goal is 24/7 logged in, so an hour down now, is only 2 percent of the day gone. 98 percent of the day they are earning, earning earning.
defacto that means they don't have to look for a free zone. you'll be gone soon and they'll just come back.
that means they are playing harder than you. regardless of being at the keys or not. they are 98% more up, playing, than you will ever be.
even if nobody botted there would be people still looking for that edge over the competition. between enchants, dragon weapons, epics, all those wonderful bits of the game that make it very very tough for casuals to compete. those little edges make it tough to create opposition to top clans.
botting just makes it easier to create opposition based on subpar gear.
i shouldn't have to explain all this, its a basic concept of all MMO gaming.
its what sets lineage2 apart from so many MMO's. there is a significant and steep curve to climb to get where you can make a difference. certainly achievable legitly but with bots earning 98 percent faster than legit gameplay its hard to see why anyone who calls themselves a competitive gamer wouldn't bot.
makes it equally easy to see why FPS games suffer such low levels of botting; it is literally game breaking.
not so in L2. in L2 its just playing the game to 99. then it becomes something more. at 99 you become Par for the course, and the bot is your eagle shot; saves you the humiliation of defeat by spamming pots, or quicker than any finger enable counters.
thats exactly the line you cross to define who you are and what video games mean to you.
in 10 days time i am dropping about 13 000 real dollars on my new 3d printer and a software bundle; because i am taking up a new hobby.
13 000 in L2 if that was still my hobby would put me ahead of quite a number of players now that the NCoin store is here. it would all be black market in 2011.
the NC store has allowed people to spend their money legally buying digital content; however you rightly define it as "pixels"
pixels mean a lot when you pay money for them; it no longer is a game it is a sport, a hobby, or a literal vested interest. a competition. a race.
this is what people do, it is altogether normal, and is unfortunate that it must be labelled cheating.
if you were trying to make a garage band into a rock star group, you'd invest in a booth, some audio software and invest time in that goal.
that's the level of player you need to be in order to play against iMartelx and Diego_vargas. they have put the time in. they have put else aside to commit. they are in it to win it and their mettle is constantly tested - no less than by people with the same level of commitment - to win at all costs or die trying.
if you don't blow the money on the game you can't really be considered as "playing the game" only "playing around" "wasting time"
"any top botter" will say you suck but only in that he has a competitive edge over you that you have very little chance to overcome; unless as you rightly point out he abandons the aid of the tool he uses as a crutch but that is comparatively speaking like pitting mike tyson (you) against stephen hawking (them) in a fight to the death.
you are either hardcore, or you arent. there can be no middle ground. if you arent hardcore you best stop complaining.
dude u dont have a clue. the ones botting are the ones spending most time online.
Honestly I can. You would be lucky to find any legit players playing this game. That's one big reason I quit long ago. Most legits have moved on. I just come here at forums to make fun every once in a while, but that's it.
I just say a few words when delusional's like to justify cheating is all. But you can't reason with people who lie to themselves...
such a patetic thread, the only good post i saw here was from peri and this one i had to quote, this is the only 100% correct thing i read in years and everbody knows that i hate forum warriors.
I can't believe I'm taking the time to respond. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion spud but you just debunked your own with this statement. The "BOTS" play harder. Exactly! The player can go to sleep while his bot levels up and collects loot with absolutely no human intervention other than to start the bot on its rounds. So is the player honing any skill whatsoever? No sir!
The extent of automation in this game should be the use of macros that they allow. I use them when boxing a healer. I still have to know when to cast heal, or oh crap battle heal, or cure poison or wtfever else though. The only thing they do is simplify a few keystrokes, all the thinking and decision making is still done in my head and executed by me pushing buttons. Oh and if I happen to push the wrong button I am presented with some more interesting decision options to maybe fix what I just screwed up.
Bottom line is all these bot trains can be set in all the hunting areas to run 24/7 so when the legit player gets off work or out of school with just a couple hours to play, they spend a good chunk of that time looking for a free zone or have to compete with the train.
I haven't personally had the pleasure of pvp with a scripted player yet but I'm sure that when I do I will have a decision - suck it up and keep going or move on to WoW/ GW2/Skyrim or my PS4. Automated players can and do affect the rest of us whether you want to admit it or not. Yes it's true I no longer have to pay but that in no way makes it more palatable.
please when u have a chance to fight someone in the bigleagues please, record it in video and take screenshots if its possible cos i m pretty sure u ll be one or two shoted.
dude u dont have a clue. the ones botting are the ones spending most time online.
please when u have a chance to fight someone in the bigleagues please, record it in video and take screenshots if its possible cos i m pretty sure u ll be one or two shoted.
You, sir, have a serious lack of reading comprehension.
please, amuse me.
dude u dont have a clue. the ones botting are the ones spending most time online.
Spudnik says that bots are 24/7 online, but I guess it's too hard for you to comprehend.
please when u have a chance to fight someone in the bigleagues please, record it in video and take screenshots if its possible cos i m pretty sure u ll be one or two shoted.
Twizzted never said he was going to win against scripters, but lose. "Suck it up".
But again, something too hard for your level of reading comprehension.
Now, go troll somewhere else where your ignorance doesn't make you fail this hard. Bot.
honing skill - not in direct sense. honed skill is an over-time thing. botting for exp is one form of earning an advantage over the next player. so for example two level 93 players, one starts botting and gets 94 faster than the other, will have a distinct advantage.
you misunderstand what botting is, fundamentally. what you describe is merely learning how to play the game. what the buttons do. its very easy for a healer to go out of mana, or overheal, or pull aggro, or incalculable combinations of other very terrible things JUST FROM PUSHING THE WRONG BUTTONS AT THE WRONG TIME. thats how you earn skill. playing extended periods of time - and who plays longer than a bot? i argue very few. so the bots are refined with each passing day by the player. use UE, use balance life instead of heal. etc.
and learning from your mistakes is part of the game, part of your character, part of what gets you parties. I still stand by the FACT that if a person botted their toon from 1-99 they would be just as clueless as the day they started; their AI may know the game but take that away and what do you have - a noob in the best gear money can buy that will likely be the downfall of any party he gets.
because it is a script, it has artificial intelligence. it knows how to react faster than you. it knows how to counter you. when it comes time to compete, they don't abandon the script and are suddenly terrible and easily killed. they bring the script with them. they refine it with each fight like any user refining his skill.
maybe it's just me but at what point is the actual player ever honing his skill if all he does is allow the program to run? It would be like watching a cut-scene video from the game where you have absolutely no input or control except to shut it off. If I understand you correctly, this AI learns the game and competes against you (PvP) instead of human player.
you only face bots in their pve zone and they will lie down and die without a problem. they know eventually you will log out. their goal is 24/7 logged in, so an hour down now, is only 2 percent of the day gone. 98 percent of the day they are earning, earning earning.
I think that s exactly where the OP was talking about in the first place, they are like roaches and have yet to see them lie down and give me the area, I'll be waiting though
defacto that means they don't have to look for a free zone. you'll be gone soon and they'll just come back.
that means they are playing harder than you. regardless of being at the keys or not. they are 98% more up, playing, than you will ever be.
at what point is the human player playing harder if he is never at the keys?
even if nobody botted there would be people still looking for that edge over the competition. between enchants, dragon weapons, epics, all those wonderful bits of the game that make it very very tough for casuals to compete. those little edges make it tough to create opposition to top clans.
in this cas every player would have an equal opportunity to get the same items/enchants. I do understand that the larger clans and alliances do more and likely have more but again, EVERYONE has that opportunity
.
and if all this makes me a casual player so be it. I never got why people thought casual was a bad thing. My memory may be fading a tad bit but I'm fairly certain I saw somewhere in this game that the use of third party software and real money (except to buy coin) are against the EULA. Call me crazy but I wasn't dreaming when I saw it. It's true I swear. When people come to a game for the first time all they want is a level playing field. I remember when my toons were young I saw a guy on old Bartz named Cronos with a Damascus sword. I was amazed and wanted to be like that cuz at the time that was top grade stuff!!The only thing stopping me from being as amazing as he was, was my own time and effort. I know, a bot could do that for me, but let's go back to what skill would be there if I haven't made that clear enough.
Let me throw a different twizzt on this. I am by no means anywhere near what I consider an expert player - I alt waaaaay too much. I am getting there though. In the process of me trying out different characters when I get bored I sometimes find myself in need of information. So, I come right here to the official forums. One thing is pretty constant, and that is there will be helpful people and there will be trolls. Of the helpful people that stand out I always see Tifert1, Smittie, and I've even seen you Spud. There will be times that the information they put out is questioned by others but their logic to me seems to be pretty sound so I tend to follow their advice. They provide a much needed service to the community. I think that contributes to people staying and trying instead of flat out giving up and moving on.
Tell me what service a human player that botted from 1-99 could ever give that could be considered anything close to solid if they never touched the keys themselves to learn from mistakes and trial and error? You got me if you say the AI can jump on here and type the answer for them. Bottom line, bots provide absolutely no community service, they are bottom feeders that really do need to go away.
Spudnik says that bots are 24/7 online, but I guess it's too hard for you to comprehend.
Twizzted never said he was going to win against scripters, but lose. "Suck it up".
But again, something too hard for your level of reading comprehension.
Now, go troll somewhere else where your ignorance doesn't make you fail this hard. Bot.
dude what spud was talking about, was that the ones who boting was ppl that had others things to do, he is wrong, the ones bot are the ones he saying on the post a quote (martel/diego), the bot owners are either selling adena or building up power.
the bots owner arent ppl that had to work or something **** like that, neither ppl that are throwing money on nccoins, he is clueless.
AND EVEN MORE, TO PUT A BOT PARTY TO ROLL U DONT NEED TO MASTERY NOTHING, THE MOST BOTS ON THE GAME ARE BR, AND THOSE BR EVEN KNOW ENGLISH, AND THE 3RD PROGRAMS ARE ALL IN ENGLISH.
what i mean quoted Twizzted is that later on his game he wouldnt be able to recognize a bot toon or a stacked legit one, LIKE U AND UR GIRLFRIENDS DO ON FORUM, CALLING LEGIT PPL BOT.
the only way to detected a pvp bot is by hide skills, or watch a video from one playing.
btw i dont even know why i m speding time to type this since last year i tell myself on this forum that i ll never spend time with the forum warriors group anymore.
Once again you fail to read the whole post. Bots are a means to an end. They provide only for their owners. I ca tell you stories of bots who are banned for using bot to scam money in craft shop dwarfs. Bots who exploited the cubic frags for ews fragments. Bots who exploited world boss spawn. I can continue. They are not by nature community serving unless that community is a clan of bots hoarding boss jewels.
You want me to tell you that all bots are used for the same purpose and that all bots get to 99 and are all pro ? I cant do that. Not everyone has that werewithal nor is supported in that endeavor. Some get banned. Some lose interest. Some simply dont learn. Few make it to the top and fewer become great. Such is the nature of COMPETITION.
Once again you fail to read the whole post. Bots are a means to an end. They provide only for their owners. I ca tell you stories of bots who are banned for using bot to scam money in craft shop dwarfs. Bots who exploited the cubic frags for ews fragments. Bots who exploited world boss spawn. I can continue. They are not by nature community serving unless that community is a clan of bots hoarding boss jewels.
You want me to tell you that all bots are used for the same purpose and that all bots get to 99 and are all pro ? I cant do that. Not everyone has that werewithal nor is supported in that endeavor. Some get banned. Some lose interest. Some simply dont learn. Few make it to the top and fewer become great. Such is the nature of COMPETITION.
when u kill a bot party at 3am and get ur *** kicked by the owners few minutes latter please come and post a screenshot.
when u fought a tank with 85% or any other toon with 55% reflect dmg please screenshot that and post.
when u find a bot craft party please screenshot and post here.
i bet u never saw one of those in action and never knew someone that own that kind of scheme.
please if u gonna talk about something, know the issue. btw please dude cubis omg.
I been around over 10 years. Let that sink in. I have forgotten more about L2 than you will ever know. I can recount for you the open beta adena **** that involved buying arrows until the price went over the maximum and into negative value and made the game give you adena.
I been around over 10 years. Let that sink in. I have forgotten more about L2 than you will ever know. I can recount for you the open beta adena **** that involved buying arrows until the price went over the maximum and into negative value and made the game give you adena.
There is nothing i need to prove to you.
lol now the issue is exploit not bot anymore? if u know that much explain the istina bug/exploit please.
You think those exploits were found or used without 3rd party tools?
i knew it, u dont have a clue about the istina exploit.
Question for you. How many 3rd party tools do you think exist or have existed in the 10 year lifespan of L2 ?
please dude, this is even a question jesus.
l2wa*ker end at version 2.9 or something, when god arrive to the game
l2divine still in use
l2hpx istill in use on l2j server
l2radar radar that was add to zra*ger or ranger whatever u prefer.
******* closed
l2*net still in use
l2t*ower still in use
l2t*ower premium still in use
l2zrager the name change dont know if the z or without z is the current version
l2ranger the name change dont know if the z or without z is the current version
autoclicks <---general ones, if u even know how to c++ u can do urself.
l2shadowbot THE ACTUAL BEST ONE
l2adrenaline is shadowbot with other name and more expensive.
l2zur like a autoclick bot, made at AUTO IT
i made an article for my college work about rmt dude and i ll say again u dont have a clue about noting.
heroe once, a clan lv9 full skill, the only 3 jewels i never had was the blessed antharas/valakas e lindivior, i could end up with a pvp+6 set and a weapon if i had the desire to try a app on a top clan, but meeehhhhh ppl on chronos sux. end up with 3k+ pvp that i did alone and wars sent to my 1 man clan by ND, GAURI, RR, PIRATAS, DARKNESSREBORN E DEATHWISH.
i almost forgot i made my presence big there and i do called the atention of the big leagues.
are u pvping nova at naia now tiferet????
Yup, I do.
Keep bragging pls, looks like the fact you got PKed by iJarpo was the only one worth mentioning in your whole L2 career. While I never gotten hero nor the desire to get one, at least I'm legit, while you have been embraced by the unlegit community for the simple fact you sold your account and you're bragging about it on a public forum.
Keep bragging pls, looks like the fact you got PKed by iJarpo was the only one worth mentioning in your whole L2 career. While I never gotten hero nor the desire to get one, at least I'm legit, while you have been embraced by the unlegit community for the simple fact you sold your account and you're bragging about it on a public forum.
good to know u are pvping, what u have to say about them? about the brs at genocide?
have ur clan helped u with gear?? provide adena without those stupid clan auctions?
if the game matters to u like it did to me, once u go hardcore and u saw that there is no end to the botland and rmtparadise u ll do the same.
ps: try level a clan to lv9 fullskill alone. its hard dude.
I think I've got eyes to see the botland and RMTparadise for myself, I simply pretend to not see them for as long as I can, that's the only way I can keep playing without getting stomachaches >.>
I don't see how anyone who had been here a considerable time with a high post count a "forum warrior".
If the comment is honest then you cry it's negative and that we're forum warriors. You disagree and again screaming forum warrior. Maybe the reply wasn't what you wanted to hear even if it was accurate you cry forum warrior. Maybe try being less of a troll,less pointless arguments on why you're right and that there is no possibility you could be wrong.
Am I the only one that finds it funny he just openly admitted to breaking the EULA? Or has my long absence from the forum and game caused me to miss some things?
I don't see how anyone who had been here a considerable time with a high post count a "forum warrior".
If the comment is honest then you cry it's negative and that we're forum warriors. You disagree and again screaming forum warrior. Maybe the reply wasn't what you wanted to hear even if it was accurate you cry forum warrior. Maybe try being less of a troll,less pointless arguments on why you're right and that there is no possibility you could be wrong.
__why peri keeps talking **** on forum with his buddies (not talking about peri but her friends used to talk about pvp but ooohh wait none of them pvp or have a 99 toon(not counting tiferet on its group anymore)) why peri and his friend dont go lv themselvs and stop to post a little?
ps: try level a clan to lv9 fullskill alone. its hard dude.
Dunno why you think its so hard, I've made several in the past, and its much easier since GoD than when I did it.
nice list.
although i vaguely remember there being something called "Walker".
although that may have just been an uneducated nick name.
still entertaining to read the list knowing the list probably goes on.
WTB L2 Boba fett.
I'll give him this much, Walker was actually the first on his list, he missed Superman though. Don't know if anyone thought of this before me, but seeing as one is the very first and one is the latest and greatest, isn't it kinda cute that it slides together real nicely as "Walker, Texas Ranger" ? :p
__why peri keeps talking **** on forum with his buddies (not talking about peri but her friends used to talk about pvp but ooohh wait none of them pvp or have a 99 toon(not counting tiferet on its group anymore)) why peri and his friend dont go lv themselvs and stop to post a little?
I'm not a HE if you'd bothered to read my profile. I'm a FEMALE. Of coarse I'm not 99, I have a job and a life and I don't bot nor do I buy xp runes so that would justify my not being 99.
I can post from my smartphone anytime btw.
Someone forget to send me an invite to this little party ? :(
/invite BigBubbles
Dunno why you think its so hard, I've made several in the past, and its much easier since GoD than when I did it.
I'll give him this much, Walker was actually the first on his list, he missed Superman though. Don't know if anyone thought of this before me, but seeing as one is the very first and one is the latest and greatest, isn't it kinda cute that it slides together real nicely as "Walker, Texas Ranger" ? :p
Walker(Biters,zombies) as in "The Walking Dead" LOL
I see myself as a semi-old player who used to play a lot on private servers and then on official servers for a few years before it went F2P, and I still love and appreciate the game as it's kept what made it amazingly enjoyable to play (atmosphere, sounds etc), but one thing that has changed - and it's because of F2P - is the amount of.....I'm going to call them *****ts because that's the word that comes to mind every time I come across them; is those who grieve others e.g. the other day a guy threatened me for running through, "his", hunting area and tried to flex his pathetic imaginary ego, and just today I was ganked for no reason. In the 3 years I played on the official servers when it was still subscription based, I didn't get ganked once, not once.
Only negative really is the amount of deludedly arrogant ***** in the game since F2P was introduced - and they could maybe merge a server or two.
being a griefer myself, i know for a fact it was happening in the pay to play era. maybe not quite as frequently, toward the end though.
i remember training people... i remember giving people misinformation...
i remember running around in low grade gear to get players to flag for easy pvps... yeah, griefing was fun back then.
oh man, when people didn't have the intuitive quest help you could run people around for hours trying to complete quests which had little to no reward.
being a griefer myself, i know for a fact it was happening in the pay to play era. maybe not quite as frequently, toward the end though.
i remember training people... i remember giving people misinformation...
i remember running around in low grade gear to get players to flag for easy pvps... yeah, griefing was fun back then.
oh man, when people didn't have the intuitive quest help you could run people around for hours trying to complete quests which had little to no reward.
It was going on from day one, even in CB, he was just extremely lucky and touched by the hand of GoD not to have run into it if he played pre GoD.
Besides which, he doesn't get the fact that being able to mess with anyone at anytime, just about anywhere was one of the things that made L2 so great and attracted so many to it.
being a griefer myself, i know for a fact it was happening in the pay to play era. maybe not quite as frequently, toward the end though.
i remember training people... i remember giving people misinformation...
i remember running around in low grade gear to get players to flag for easy pvps... yeah, griefing was fun back then.
oh man, when people didn't have the intuitive quest help you could run people around for hours trying to complete quests which had little to no reward.
Back when you truly had a chance of dropping gear to mob death was when this game really was alive.
I'll change what I said earlier in this thread about Lineage still being Lineage, because after reading the patch notes I think I'm going to go and bury my head in the sand until the end of time - Lineage has died.
You forgot the part about when the bots would come pick it up on you too.
True story, dropped my C Heavy set in the bottom of GoE dying to an accidental aggro raid boss >.< Worst day ever there.
You can use the logic in reverse. I had a perma-red bot hunter that would loot gear off them dead bots. I'd also bait some people into fights for a chance to PvP for drops. Made a lot of money as a Marauder of bots and angry players.
As I mentioned in another (now-deleted) thread, it's all about perspective and goals. If you define your success as "pwn the face off the other guys", then you'll always struggle to "win."
But if you define success as "have fun and play with friends / family," well... you'll never have a problem.
I try the latter and I'm still struggling with it. The game gets less fun with every drop nerf.
this: jkoster hit the nail on the head...
I've been playing L2 on and off since C2 and i've just passed Lv92. I enjoy the game still heaps but, alot of the excitement have gone. I think that is just because it's so old...
L2 was and is a bit different :)
In the past past 9 years since I impulse-purchased the game from a store shelf, I've never been a factor myself and I can still pretty much enjoy the game that way. I met good people in game, played with friends, made real life friends and much more, some of these relationships last to this day, we meet in person became friends. Yet I never answered to any clan's obligations, requests, subtle pressure, etc. to be in game at any particular time for any particular reason.
That for me is just crossing the line between playing the game and the game playing you.
and this: ... for all the people who has been playing for a lot of years; haven't you noticed like nowadays the amount of ******ed people is just too **** high ? Back in the day i couldn't remember finding such amount of noobs running around. I mean in the beta and C1 much of us were newbies but we learned things and usually quickly. But when i played some years ago the amount of NOOBS i found was just ridiculous; you could teach them how to do something and they still were repeating the same questions like stupids. Dont know, just something i noticed. In the other hand, for sure the amount of HUE is much, much bigger nowadays too. Whatever.
Yeah, you sir are absolutely right, back in 2004-2005-ish there was a community, so to speak. One could find a group, a raid, a goal and most importantly people who gave a crap about their gaming experience. Today you just see an insane amount of kids with no friggen' clue as to what they are doing or should be doing, running around with 4 boxes, without even a hint of interaction, just doing what they think they need, taking what they want when they want. I dont even log in my red anymore when someone skims my hunting field/room/quest-mobs/whatnot, just too tired, log off and go for a beer with a friend or two.
Most of these newer players do not have the mental capacity or simply don't even speak English. The pay to play model, however low an amount it was, worked extremely effectively to keep the 'junk' players out of the game. You paid for something you at least tried to do it right and enjoy it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the free to play model only introduced 250,000 illiterate idiots. Not at all, but the 245,000 make it very hard to meet and properly integrate the 5000 who I think all us older players are more than happy to welcome into our game.
I played during beta, prelude, C1 and C2 primarily, and just returned last week to check out how things have gone in Aden.
There are four big things I miss dearly about the Lineage 2 I remember...
1. Player-interaction of the mundane kind... I used to see (and frequently be) the person flagging just for fun right outside of town, chatting in local with passers-by, enjoying random exchanges of emotes, and generally interacting with everyone. When I came back, I noticed this just really doesn't happen with the same frequency. Often out of boredom, if I can't get a hello from a fellow xp-grinder I'll flag on them. I'll take their mobs. ANYTHING to provoke a reaction. Anything to remind me that I'm playing the game with other people. Joining a clan again has helped to some extent with that, but it's simply not the same. There are no "notorious perma-reds" terrorizing the elven village which lowbies would literally teleport to Giran to shout about, a party would be assembled, and he would be dispatched with (probably because no one goes there these days)... there weren't any "duels" or "CP" so e-honour was decided to the death... these days I farm silently next to bots(?) or Brazilians(?) and can't tell the difference at all between them and another NPC. You would spend 45 minutes in town begging, pleading, throwing Adena at prophets to try and get them to buff you. When your high lvl prophet friend would come out into the field and heal and buff you, you were in heaven. When you had no buffs, the grind was severe, but that made that interaction with the Prophet even better. I don't think this comes down to a lack of players, it really feels like a cultural shift, a seismic one.
2. The economy and crafting market... As a mid-level Scavenger with multiple paid accounts then, I spent my days blissfully grinding for that blue glow while buying low, selling high, crafting, and over-enchanting... With the changes to low level gear, the 1 NC coin gear sets, and Steel Door, Blessed Enchant scrolls... I can't play the game like I used to anymore, not in any respect. The best part about the economy as it was, was that if you had little in the way of resources, you could for instance put a Buy shop in the lower level towns for mats, crafting D gear, and sell high in Giran, whereas the high-powered rich dwarves in Giran were crafting Doom sets for a pretty penny and cranking out B Soul Shots. Everyone at every stage filled a niche. Now that system basically ceases to exist. What we have now is: a Dwarf, nay, making MONEY, is useless until 85/90/95, it's pointless to even pick up the Adena from the ground... Everything about making and earning money, fueled by a thriving player-driven economy, that is all gone.
3. Drops. Spoils. and MORE drops... The Korean Low drop rate on items has always been a HUGE draw for me. I can still remember getting a pair of Brig Gaiters from a random mob when I first started. I was RICH! :D This happened infrequently, but that made it even better! Since I started last week, I have killed probably 50,000 mobs, (really pulling that number out of my ***, so might not be true) but it feels like a lot larger quantity than I used to be able to what with the free buffs. What I have found is next to NO drops. I've gotten two B grade helms (which I couldn't pay someone to take off my hands) and a couple enchant weapon scrolls. I desperately miss material drops as well. As I was grinding I could collect the mats and craft with them, or sell them in bulk... the mobs that the main hold-you-by-the-hand quest (why are there quests now, btw?) takes you on are the best XP around for solo, so you are at a severe disadvantage leveling elsewhere (no herbs for instance) and you really never get any drops from those mobs. I am not complaining that they are infrequent. I am complaining that they seem to not exist, at all.
Edit: and because leveling is so fast an the gear is SO cheap to attain at all stages the market for twink, OE gear at each grade is more or less gone. I had a +10 Glaive (which used to be the ****) which I couldn't sell to save my life when I returned. My guess is NC Soft did this because the people who took care of all the low-level economic stuff stopped doing it as the years (and the botting) went on... they do not employ an economist as other successful MMOs do, I'd have to wager, judging solely on the way they have handled market development.
4. Death penalty... My god when I think back to the early L2 I loved so much, PVP was so exciting I would literally sweat, my heart would race... EVERYTHING was on the line. My gear could drop! What If I accidentally go red (50% chance to drop items)?? I haven't dropped a single piece of gear, and hardly flinch when I die anymore... I mean I would sometimes stay dead for hours until I could get even a 50% rez, you could lose an entire day or two days worth of grinding in a single spontaneous kerfluffle outside Dion. Now... it means nothing, it seems. I am not afraid, I don't get excited when I fight someone... Why did they do this? Every single MMO on the market offers risk-free PVP, Lineage 2 used to (and Eve Online does still) offer extremely risky non-consensual PVP, this was a major draw. This serious penalty for death made us stick together, it made us fearful, it made us brash, it made us seek revenge. Risk-free PVP means we don't care anymore. We don't care about going red because there's so little risk, and NC even engineered a stop to perma-reds in the worst way possible... That time is dead now it seems.
I guess NC Soft just needs to do what they need to do to make money. Maybe us fans of the original core gameplay of L2 don't make them enough money. If that's the case, then I'll pack up my bag of tears and go elsewhere. NC Soft seems to have removed the peaks and valleys that made this a game I have been telling people about for a decade, made it a game I remember as fondly as any other part of an idyllic youth. God **** do I miss the Lineage of yore.