When Lineage 2 has not been GoD,every tank have their function in some places. For example,paladin and tk are excellent in partys,sieges and raids. In counterpart dark avenger and sk are excellent in pvp. Now in GoD is good to know if that functions still in every tank,caused my first char was paladin,i prefer to be a shinning knight over a dark knight but last time i decide to play dark avenger and today is a shinning sigel hell knight. Some people said that is the bad guy but see the movie HELLBOY,the main actor is the good guy beign bad guy. Well,im not to talk about this fact. I need to know if im a sigel hell knight i have advantage in pvp like dark avenger in ancient lineage 2,caused some time ago i think this,white tanks for partys,raids and sieges and dark knights for pvp,this fact still in actual tanks???? In other words,if a sigel phoenix knight and a sigel hell knight are on,which u pick for a raid,siege or party??? (and kartia and other things???)
Sorry about my english,its not my native language -.-
i know people prefer the elves...
but for human knights, i think dark avenger has an advantage with the panther. i don't know exactly what it means, but i'm pretty sure it's not having the debuff for summoning.
paladins can use sacrifice, but it's not a huge heal... my awakened tank is a low paladin, i doubt i will get very far with him though.
what i like is the self salvation.
Well, I guess their function is... to tank. To tank mobs, raids and even some sassy people that dare to come over.
Seriously, I cant think of a class too much gimped as tank atm. They r almost useless, and what only saves them at pvp its the noble sacrifice and party UD, otherwise, I think they could enclausure themselves forever in Pagans and no one would even notice about.
I think shield defence must apply also to magic damage :D
And they also should add info about how much dmg u block or % of dmg block . cause seriously even fighting daggers seems like you have no shield at all on. I rly feel like my tyrr is more tanky on pvp than my tank...
mmm.. really? that´s not my case. In fact against daggers is a easy win for a tank (unless you have bad luck or really poor damage) . Just be sure to be with knight harmony and your iron aura on (focus shield to laught at damage XD)
What shield defence do is add exdtra defence. Example. player have 7k Pdef with buff. seraph shield has 515 pdef. shield mastery gives 80% over shield defence and 209 shield defence. Iron give 50%. Kh give 50%. focus shield of lvl 95 gives 900 shield defence and 45% shield defence so. 515 + 209 +900 =1624 * 225% =3654
So the tank char has 10.654 Pdef and over that the damage formula is applied.
Thats why Shield defence complement your pdef but your pdef is very important. K.H is a must buff on tank (unless you fight a mage in oly :D).
true tanks need a boost, go write the Korean Dev team and tell them how gimp the class is ty ;)
I said they r useless, not that they r weaks. There's a huge difference in that 2 aspects. Obviously the tank class is broken when it comes to olympiad, but being a brainless oly farmer doesnt vouch to be a must in pve, and you as a tanker player knows this very well.
On the other hand, to make them pretty useful and utterly necessary again during every and any PvE, the Dev Team would have to greatly tone down every DD class out there, what wont be happening 'cause ppl doesnt want/know how to handle loose even when they r playing a game - so we gonna cry every bit of our pixeled *** out till we be able to 1-shot right and left, as we wish. And screw that concept of someone being a supporter, since in L2 nowadays support class just means a "useful box"/"slot filler".
well a decently geared tank with brains helps a lot in getting 20+ in DW, check Chronos section for the youtube links and I can confirm that it helps as I do the same on Naia.
besides that from what I understood the next update has new pve areas which requires a strong tanker so let's see.. when they said so for HB they kind of were right as the AOE spot pre nerf did indeed needed a tank :)
Thing is, it has always been a problem to properly place tanks in PVE. Look at every chronicle so far, they were either OP or useless/either on pve or pvp), rarely in between when equaly geared compared to must-have classes.
On earlier god chronicles many complained you needed a tank for everything, but then ppl get gear, new skills etc and sudenly tanks are needed for nothing since you have other classes doing the same job: tyrr can tank and CC while doing 10x more dmg, Nuker can have perma "Chain hydra" while having 20x more dmg and having stat nerf(mass devils curse).
First step to make tank more useful is to strip away shadow snare from feoh.:D:D:D
Only tyrr and tanks should be able to maintain several enemies in an area for long time.
well a decently geared tank with brains helps a lot in getting 20+ in DW, check Chronos section for the youtube links and I can confirm that it helps as I do the same on Naia.
besides that from what I understood the next update has new pve areas which requires a strong tanker so let's see.. when they said so for HB they kind of were right as the AOE spot pre nerf did indeed needed a tank :)
those r all 99+ areas, which let us conclude that the said brand new player needs to go through all the procces of leveling till he hits that requirement. Yet this is what makes the sense of now for tanks beings just a worthless xp leecher and a deadweight outside some pvp scene.
And the fun fact, as @Zanerf and @w1soi pointed out already, where the tank would shine, a decently geared DD does better with the plus of doing X more dmg to the final DPS.
But note that I dont say that to blame the tank, 'cause it's not the tank player faults, at least in some part. Blame, instead, all the boast Dev Team gave to all DD out there, making them a bit godly for any support player's taste. So it gives us the acceptance of Isses being a truly buffpet, tanks being just a leecher and healers, well, just a costless bress on hand during any PvE turn.
In your particular case, I dont think telling new peeps how good the class is only based on your flawless playstyle and amount of endgame gear isnt as good as it seems to be, as it wont work that way out. I, for real, do think it can be more demotivational than anything else, since any real player of L2 that played this game for a bit knows that endgame stuff isnt for everybody, so there's no point to aim for this high high goal, speccially when you r a newbie.
Though considering this topic in mind only one thing is for sure. Tanks are useful in castle sieges with party ud's, noble sacrifices and drag skills. And if you have some free time you can also try to silence enemies healer with justice punishment. Besides CS tanks are just useless. What kills me even more is that you cant do pve solo. This vanguard crap should add more power for tanks in pve. It is hard to find party for anything like SP farming etc. I would rather go solo hellbound or DW if it was worth it.
Though considering this topic in mind only one thing is for sure. Tanks are useful in castle sieges with party ud's, noble sacrifices and drag skills. And if you have some free time you can also try to silence enemies healer with justice punishment. Besides CS tanks are just useless. What kills me even more is that you cant do pve solo. This vanguard crap should add more power for tanks in pve. It is hard to find party for anything like SP farming etc. I would rather go solo hellbound or DW if it was worth it.
Tanks can solo pretty Ok. It's mind numbing and boring. Most parties really only look for one at lower levels for instances. LOC groups can also make use of them, but also not needed. But LOC groups tend to be a bit more rare in many cases as well.
They need to make tanks FAR more tanky, or let them do more damage in general. Your idea of a much improved vanguard toggle would be perfect since that's really where they do the worst. Many enjoy a tank for PvP, but when the dust settles after and the tank wants some SP grind going on, it's nothing but dead silence in many cases.
Tanks can solo pretty Ok. It's mind numbing and boring. Most parties really only look for one at lower levels for instances. LOC groups can also make use of them, but also not needed. But LOC groups tend to be a bit more rare in many cases as well.
They need to make tanks FAR more tanky, or let them do more damage in general. Your idea of a much improved vanguard toggle would be perfect since that's really where they do the worst. Many enjoy a tank for PvP, but when the dust settles after and the tank wants some SP grind going on, it's nothing but dead silence in many cases.
By solo i meant efficiently solo killing mobs. With dagger i can make 3x more SP/XP in hellbound in 1h than with tank in 1h. And this is lame.
Tanks can solo pretty Ok. It's mind numbing and boring. Most parties really only look for one at lower levels for instances. LOC groups can also make use of them, but also not needed. But LOC groups tend to be a bit more rare in many cases as well.
They need to make tanks FAR more tanky, or let them do more damage in general. Your idea of a much improved vanguard toggle would be perfect since that's really where they do the worst. Many enjoy a tank for PvP, but when the dust settles after and the tank wants some SP grind going on, it's nothing but dead silence in many cases.
I dont think that would work in the way you advise it simply 'cause NC Dev Team doesnt know how to disassemble PvE from PvP in their approaches. So giving more power to tanks would make the class a beast with nine tails, specially speaking about olympiads, where they r having their time atm.
Maybe this vanguard upgrade would be a good idea, if developed in the right direction. Maybe they should make it with more levels, and like the old vanguard stance, they could add some skills only usabe under certain circumstances (only by the toogle activation, if using a certain weapon/shield/armor, not in peace zone, not usable in/during pvp/oly/coc/siege etc). And same can be applied with healers, since they have Inquisitor skill too.
At least it's something to start with, since this shadow on the class is getting dense at every new update.
Sigul Vanguard is a toggle that increases skill mp cost by quite a bit and the effects are purely PVE so it's not like making it stronger would have any influence on Oly or PVP in general.
And they also should add info about how much dmg u block or % of dmg block . cause seriously even fighting daggers seems like you have no shield at all on. I rly feel like my tyrr is more tanky on pvp than my tank...
hah true, tyrr with same gear like tank got more hp and def :D only uds and all, hp regen for tyrr are better even
When i think of sigel tanks, i think of the hell knight n if this tank is the greatest one in pvp to reflect back damage. Am i wrong? Cuz this "division" (if u will) in the class of tanks is what im lvlin up my dual class to be, it does seem nice to last a good while in pvp. Or am i just wasting time n dual a tyrr duelist since my iss already uses dual swords n heavy armor?
Well tank are aids at the moment, since you cant really tank raidbosses anymore nor they delivery any serious dmg. What is the pure function of tank todays? Well, the function of tanks is 2 slow cooldown: PT UD and PT rescue and quick cooldown which is noble sacrifice, which are useful in PVE nowadays especially if u like to aoe a lot. Now, ever since the dimwarp came out, tanks are noteven allowed in pt anymore, everyone looks for stocked mages to the delivery any dmg. The only useful think about tanks is having the right jewels set up and make sure your debuffs will land when debuffs are off, if you cant delivery debuffs either, you might as well get replaced by another healer for the pt, because all you do is giving 40 secs of total immunity to the pt. On the other hand, it is good to have at least 4-5 tanks for mass fights since aoe hate is still pretty good disable and does not require amazing gear to land, kinda like gloom for necros, it is almost 100% no matter what are u wearing (immunuties not included). So basically: IF you cant afford top epics might as well uninstall.
Well tank are aids at the moment, since you cant really tank raidbosses anymore nor they delivery any serious dmg. What is the pure function of tank todays? Well, the function of tanks is 2 slow cooldown: PT UD and PT rescue and quick cooldown which is noble sacrifice, which are useful in PVE nowadays especially if u like to aoe a lot. Now, ever since the dimwarp came out, tanks are noteven allowed in pt anymore, everyone looks for stocked mages to the delivery any dmg. The only useful think about tanks is having the right jewels set up and make sure your debuffs will land when debuffs are off, if you cant delivery debuffs either, you might as well get replaced by another healer for the pt, because all you do is giving 40 secs of total immunity to the pt. On the other hand, it is good to have at least 4-5 tanks for mass fights since aoe hate is still pretty good disable and does not require amazing gear to land, kinda like gloom for necros, it is almost 100% no matter what are u wearing (immunuties not included). So basically: IF you cant afford top epics might as well uninstall.
Now in IO even with epics and all the debuffs in pvp seems to land worse than before. This class can not be more broken. Imo is useless, not worth playing. IN pve it could have some use, in pvp tank is crap. No damage, even archer now can do a lot of damage to tank now. Since c1 ncsoft have screw tank players, either make the class OP or crap. better change game. THis game sucks anyway comparing with the other games im able to try. So agree with you, but now if you are a tank, uninstall this crappy game and play other like guild wars 2 or wait for crowfall, seems very good.