Just wanna ask if Kelbim bow is still good on this update?
Say for +12 Normal R99 bow, +12 Blesed R99 bow, +12 PVE Bow and +12 PVP bow? Where does it stand? Or is it crap on this update.
All are welcome and free to say whatever..
Just wanna ask if Kelbim bow is still good on this update?
Say for +12 Normal R99 bow, +12 Blesed R99 bow, +12 PVE Bow and +12 PVP bow? Where does it stand? Or is it crap on this update.
All are welcome and free to say whatever..
Thanks alot. :D:D:D
The value of Kelbim bow all changed since the "underground Update."
All because of the new SAs i.e. +10% Skill critical damage and +10% skill critical Chance SAs. Kelbim is nice but +15% attack speed, +15% Normal P. attack critical damage is kinda useless for Yul archer. It is a nice bow with 450 Attribute and with 1592 damage. However, it is nowhere close to OE bloody or dark. Also, with a normal weapon you can add Augmentation but on a kelbim, you cannot.
When considering everything, Kelbim = +12 Blessed Specter bow at best, I think. Maybe better than +12 B.R95 Bow in PvP but +12 B. Specter better in PvE so I'd say they are about equal.
Kelbim bow = +8 dark bow 2sa...
+12 specter bow will not equate with kelbim bow...:cool::cool:
Good decision to buy kelbim and save adena for oe dark bow... lets say +15 dark bow.. stack on items like baium soul tauti b.vala. b antaras and normal antaras.... augment go for either +70 attribute or 15 skill crit damage... ASPIRE FOR INSANITY AND SEVEN SIGN...:D:D
Kelbim bow = +8 dark bow 2sa...
+12 specter bow will not equate with kelbim bow...:cool::cool:
Good decision to buy kelbim and save adena for oe dark bow... lets say +15 dark bow.. stack on items like baium soul tauti b.vala. b antaras and normal antaras.... augment go for either +70 attribute or 15 skill crit damage... ASPIRE FOR INSANITY AND SEVEN SIGN...:D:D
This, even more so after Underground.
Kelbim bow = +8 dark bow 2sa...
+12 specter bow will not equate with kelbim bow...:cool::cool:
Good decision to buy kelbim and save adena for oe dark bow... lets say +15 dark bow.. stack on items like baium soul tauti b.vala. b antaras and normal antaras.... augment go for either +70 attribute or 15 skill crit damage... ASPIRE FOR INSANITY AND SEVEN SIGN...:D:D
There is no way a kelbim bow can compare with an OE darkbow. It's very simple!
1. Kelbim's pvp damage = 15%, when dark bow 2SA = 25%.
2. Darkbow can also have 10% skill critical damage(1SA) + 5% skill critical damage + 5% skill critical chance(2SA) + 15% skill critical damage(Stone Augmentation) = +30% skill critical damage and kelbim has NONE.
3. For an archer with no other attribute attack bonus items other than the weapon, yeah kelbim's 450 elemental attack will make you feel like it's doing so much more damage. But once you start getting things like Opal 4=70, opal 5 = 120, Fishing Agathion +30 attribute attack/defense, Longing + seven Talisman = +50 attribute, LvL100 Main/dual quest Tiara = 50, Ability skill = 50....etc. You can easily get 450+ attribute damage with any other 300 elemental weapon and kelbim's only advantage diminishes.
Yeah for the price it's good I agree. But no way it compares to Bloody or dark weapon. Maybe +0 Dark? And +12 Blessed Specter bow with new 2SAs does about the same damage for pvp too once you get 450+ attribute damage bonus. You forget +12 B.specter bow has 200+ more damage than kelbim to begin with(2SA +12B.Specter bow got 10% pvp as well). Also for PvE, Kelbim bow is just 1592 damage bow. Yeah so it all depends on other stuff a player has I guess.
For an average casual player, I'd like to recommend Kelbim also.
But be aware after level 100, a kelbim bow is just an average weapon.
Good for LvL85-99 and a decent pvp bow for a middle class archer.
Im not telling kelbim is great.. i just told the op that its wise to have kelbim and save adena for dark bow... and btw dark element sux at pve coz higher level mobs has higher dark def.. lets say 450 or 500... so less than 25% damage dealt.. however it shines on the fact that it can be used by level 85 and onwards until you have enough to buy a dark bow +15. I meant is kelbim is a good weapon to start for a yul when the toon awaken... and you know kelbim is equated by shear damage as r99 + 8 dark bow coz of its element.. a b.specter bow +12 will never reach +450 element.. regarding pvp damage on r95 max is 10% unless lucky on augment to have more... as ive read element increase in damage if the attacker has greater element is 1.25 so damage is +25%... and the r95 if lucky on augment is +70 which is 370... in total, kelbim has already 15 pvp damage and 450 element.. regarding the weapon damage kelbim is still greater... you forgot when you wear kelbim bow it increases 10% of p.atk which is same wearing a valakas necklace... so the equation goes for a +8 dark bow.. although a +8 dark bow will be greater coz of new sa system.. my bow is +13 bloody 2sa skill crit chance and damage with +70 attri augment... im telling the op its wise to buy kelbim early on so he will not waste adena on r95 bow even oe to +12 or ordinary r99 bow..
Just always remember to focus on your skill damage.. what factors can affect skill damag3 and to trigger it more often.. be it augment stats and sa.. because skill damage is what yul outshine other class..
P.s. to me yul is not the op class but the evis... i made 1 95 and i made kalios die in 40 seconds
There is no way a kelbim bow can compare with an OE darkbow. It's very simple!
1. Kelbim's pvp damage = 15%, when dark bow 2SA = 25%.
2. Darkbow can also have 10% skill critical damage(1SA) + 5% skill critical damage + 5% skill critical chance(2SA) + 15% skill critical damage(Stone Augmentation) = +30% skill critical damage and kelbim has NONE.
3. For an archer with no other attribute attack bonus items other than the weapon, yeah kelbim's 450 elemental attack will make you feel like it's doing so much more damage. But once you start getting things like Opal 4=70, opal 5 = 120, Fishing Agathion +30 attribute attack/defense, Longing + seven Talisman = +50 attribute, LvL100 Main/dual quest Tiara = 50, Ability skill = 50....etc. You can easily get 450+ attribute damage with any other 300 elemental weapon and kelbim's only advantage diminishes.
Yeah for the price it's good I agree. But no way it compares to Bloody or dark weapon. Maybe +0 Dark? And +12 Blessed Specter bow with new 2SAs does about the same damage for pvp too once you get 450+ attribute damage bonus. You forget +12 B.specter bow has 200+ more damage than kelbim to begin with(2SA +12B.Specter bow got 10% pvp as well). Also for PvE, Kelbim bow is just 1592 damage bow. Yeah so it all depends on other stuff a player has I guess.
For an average casual player, I'd like to recommend Kelbim also.
But be aware after level 100, a kelbim bow is just an average weapon.
Good for LvL85-99 and a decent pvp bow for a middle class archer.
what about going knight skill tree for added skill crit dmg and skill crit chance
Yeap, kelbim bow is not what it used to be compared to pvp bows.
Used to be as good as 7-8+ dark bow (depending on augment), now its more like 4+, depending on your enemy (and your setup) dark resist, could go up to 6+ maybe.
Dreamseeker, you say the extra 150 dark attribute is "pointless" cause after 7s etc you will already get that boost.
How about that boost + 150 from kelbim? ;)
Of course, most people got pretty high dark resistance these days, but 650 dark attack still hit pretty good.
About specter, you cant even compare a kelbim bow with anything but a pvp bow, kelbim is better than 15+ blessed specter i am sure.
Equipment and damage? not everything.
Kelbim bow is still the best bow in certain circumstances.
i.e olympiad, pure damage is better vs certain classes, but against other yuls for example, the extra atk speed does a great deal.
Depending on price on your server, kelbim is still a very good buy.
PS. I was killing parties ~7v2 with my below average (apparently) kelbim bow, up against high some OE PVP bows on dimensional siege yesterday.
Yeap, kelbim bow is not what it used to be compared to pvp bows.
Used to be as good as 7-8+ dark bow (depending on augment), now its more like 4+, depending on your enemy (and your setup) dark resist, could go up to 6+ maybe.
Dreamseeker, you say the extra 150 dark attribute is "pointless" cause after 7s etc you will already get that boost.
How about that boost + 150 from kelbim? ;)
Of course, most people got pretty high dark resistance these days, but 650 dark attack still hit pretty good.
About specter, you cant even compare a kelbim bow with anything but a pvp bow, kelbim is better than 15+ blessed specter i am sure.
Equipment and damage? not everything.
Kelbim bow is still the best bow in certain circumstances.
i.e olympiad, pure damage is better vs certain classes, but against other yuls for example, the extra atk speed does a great deal.
Depending on price on your server, kelbim is still a very good buy.
PS. I was killing parties ~7v2 with my below average (apparently) kelbim bow, up against high some OE PVP bows on dimensional siege yesterday.
This, ++++
P.s. to dreamseeker i have both pve bow +13 and kelbim bow so i know... i used to have +16 specter bow but i realized its useless so before things got complicated for r95 stuff i disposed it properly.. got 18b from an r95 bow :D:D
Yeap, kelbim bow is not what it used to be compared to pvp bows.
Used to be as good as 7-8+ dark bow (depending on augment), now its more like 4+, depending on your enemy (and your setup) dark resist, could go up to 6+ maybe.
Dreamseeker, you say the extra 150 dark attribute is "pointless" cause after 7s etc you will already get that boost.
How about that boost + 150 from kelbim? ;)
Of course, most people got pretty high dark resistance these days, but 650 dark attack still hit pretty good.
About specter, you cant even compare a kelbim bow with anything but a pvp bow, kelbim is better than 15+ blessed specter i am sure.
Equipment and damage? not everything.
Kelbim bow is still the best bow in certain circumstances.
i.e olympiad, pure damage is better vs certain classes, but against other yuls for example, the extra atk speed does a great deal.
Depending on price on your server, kelbim is still a very good buy.
PS. I was killing parties ~7v2 with my below average (apparently) kelbim bow, up against high some OE PVP bows on dimensional siege yesterday.
Attribute damage bonus is CAPPED, MAXed at 1.25 x base damage since the Tauti Update(Check Juji's lab for "Element Attribute System") So there is a limit on how much one should stack on attribute attack bonus.
For PvE, max is 450; and for PvP, it is 600, after 600+ not much difference.
But 600 is for against players who got more than 3 x 120 elemental resistance against your weapon elemental. Most level 100+ players have 3 x 120 dark and 2 x 120 holy on their armors; so if you got 300 Holy on your weapon, 450 holy in total(from other stuff you can easily get +150 attribute bonus damage as I've shown you above) is all you need for PvP and PvE, and basically 300 holy and 450 dark should do about the same damage for pvp in this case.
What's interesting is most level 100+ mobs are dark elementals meaning they have high dark resistance and attack with dark attribute also. So players apply 120 dark to at least 3 x armors and put holy on their weapons. Kelbim's 450 dark elemental is not gonna be great against dark elemental mobs or against players stacked with dark resistance. And honestly +12 Blessed specter bow with +10 skill crit damage(1SA) + 5% skill crit damage + 5% skill crit chance(2SA) + 10% PvP(from both SAs) with holy 300 does more damage in pvp too for this very reason.
Now I am thinking Kelbim Bow = +10 Blessed Specter bow.
I was being generous comparing it to +12.
P.s. to dreamseeker i have both pve bow +13 and kelbim bow so i know... i used to have +16 specter bow but i realized its useless so before things got complicated for r95 stuff i disposed it properly.. got 18b from an r95 bow :D:D
You should've kept that +16 Blessed Specter bow. There is a great chance that a weapon Exchange event is coming soon. It's like...for around 3b-5b you get to exchange +16 B. Specter bow to +16 B. Specter Retri! LOL
In my server(chronos) , that should be worth at least 30B-40B! +16 Blessed Specter Retri should do about the same PvE damage as +12 Bloody retri (if not more), and of course more PvP damage than +12 Bloody!
Attribute damage bonus is CAPPED, MAXed at 1.25 x base damage since the Tauti Update(Check Juji's lab for "Element Attribute System") So there is a limit on how much one should stack on attribute attack bonus.
For PvE, max is 450; and for PvP, it is 600, after 600+ not much difference.
But 600 is for against players who got more than 3 x 120 elemental resistance against your weapon elemental. Most level 100+ players have 3 x 120 dark and 2 x 120 holy on their armors; so if you got 300 Holy on your weapon, 450 holy in total(from other stuff you can easily get +150 attribute bonus damage as I've shown you above) is all you need for PvP and PvE, and basically 300 holy and 450 dark should do about the same damage for pvp in this case.
What's interesting is most level 100+ mobs are dark elementals meaning they have high dark resistance and attack with dark attribute also. So players apply 120 dark to at least 3 x armors and put holy on their weapons. Kelbim's 450 dark elemental is not gonna be great against dark elemental mobs or against players stacked with dark resistance. And honestly +12 Blessed specter bow with +10 skill crit damage(1SA) + 5% skill crit damage + 5% skill crit chance(2SA) + 10% PvP(from both SAs) with holy 300 does more damage in pvp too for this very reason.
Now I am thinking Kelbim Bow = +10 Blessed Specter bow.
I was being generous comparing it to +12.
I dont know who taught you how game system works, but you're wrong.
If someone got 2 pieces holy (aka 240), that means they prolly got 350-400 holy defense fully buffed.
Heck, i got 492 holy and 372 dark without buffs.
So your 450 holy is doing around 12% of maximum damage from attribute, whereas my 650 dark would make the full 25%.
Meaning 13% more than you = 13% you dont take into consideration at all.
About specter bow..
Of course in the best circumstances (100% skill critical chance), a high OE specter bow is going to hit around 10% harder than kelbim.
But how many archers do you see with 100% skill critical chance? ;)
I promise you, DPS is higher on kelbim than on a 15+ blessed specter thrower.
And again, you forget about HP, atk speed and passive reflect on kelbim.
But i guess these days, people are too focused on dealing higher damage than build their char in a smart way.
Kind of like healers going "Lol, how do you kill me! i got 100k HP and 15k P. def!".. maybe if i couldnt permastun you i wouldnt be able to. LOL.
In olympiad you probably stack blessed valakas instead of frintezza soul, tauti ring instead of baium soul and dual class skill "Masters rage" instead of "Physical trait"?
If you dont.. why not? if everything is about damage, why dont you use damage jewelry and dualskill? :o
PS. Im not arguing for the sake of arguing, feel free to post DPS test or something similar between the two and we'll see :)
Last test I did with 7+ blessed specter, my kelbim was hitting around 40% harder.
Was before the patch, so SAs were the old ones, and kelbim P. atk was lower than it is now.
If someone gifts me a 15+ blessed specter i'd be happy to recreate the test :D
Attribute damage bonus is CAPPED, MAXed at 1.25 x base damage since the Tauti Update(Check Juji's lab for "Element Attribute System") So there is a limit on how much one stack on attribute attack bonus.
For PvE, max is 450; and for PvP, it is 600, after 600+ not much difference.
But 600 is for against players who got more than 3 x 120 elemental resistance against your weapon elemental. Most level 100+ players have 3 x 120 dark and 2 x 120 holy on their armors; so if you got 300 Holy on your weapon, 450 holy in total(from other stuff you can easily get +150 attribute bonus damage as I've shown you above) is all you need for PvP and PvE, and basically 300 holy and 450 dark should do about the same damage for pvp in this case.
What's interesting is most level 100+ mobs are dark elementals meaning they have high dark resistance and attack with dark attribute also. So players apply 120 dark to at least 3 x armors and put holy on their weapons. Kelbim's 450 dark elemental is not gonna be great against dark elemental mobs or against players stacked with dark resistance. And honestly +12 Blessed specter bow with +10 skill crit damage(1SA) + 5% skill crit damage + 5% skill crit chance(2SA) + 10% PvP(from both SAs) with holy 300 does more damage in pvp too for this very reason.
Now I am thinking Kelbim Bow = +10 Blessed Specter bow.
I was being generous comparing it to +12.
Yes, cap at 1.25xdamage but you forgot that high level mobs can have something like 550 element defense... thats why the more element you got the more damage you have.. and thats 25% ofc... did this came to your mind if element attribute is capped at some point why bother make dragon weapons to have 999 element damage (the stage 3)???... or why bother with adding more element to your weapon... btw my old char has a balance def on every element on full buff each 500+... now imagine if my opponent has only 300 element, what will happen.. 25% less... plus p.def/m.def i have.. plus obsi lvl 4 plus abundance lvl 1 plus anakim plus tauti... imagine the incoming damage to me if my opponent has ONLY 300 element?..
P.s. kelbim is far greater than a specter bow... even +16 blessed...
P.s.2 i agree to znipoo maybe dreamseeker build his char in dps he see.. maybe he didnt know its only sheet dps... maybe he didnt realize all aspects of combat.. youre stunned/paralyzed/yoke/knock down youre doomed
I had both Bow R95 Blessed Specter thrower +12 2SA 300ele and Kelbim Bow i compare damage in PVP/PVE and the difference is awesome, the +12 bow is just a good bow but not better than kelbim NEVER.. In PVE Damage is notoriuos and in PVP too.
Specter 2SA = 10% PVP Damage.
Specter Patk for the +12 is like 1800 something like that but even with this patk dont make any difference .
PVE r99 bow 2sa is much better than it +10
Kelbim is like PVE bow +10.
For take decent bow and be much better than kelbim must make yourself or buy, one +10+11+12 dark bow pvp or +10++ PVE BOw 2SA so you will be the change.
Again r95 blessed +++ etc etc not make any such comparison vs kelbim.
I had both Bow R95 Blessed Specter thrower +12 2SA 300ele and Kelbim Bow i compare damage in PVP/PVE and the difference is awesome, the +12 bow is just a good bow but not better than kelbim NEVER.. In PVE Damage is notoriuos and in PVP too.
Specter 2SA = 10% PVP Damage.
Specter Patk for the +12 is like 1800 something like that but even with this patk dont make any difference .
PVE r99 bow 2sa is much better than it +10
Kelbim is like PVE bow +10.
For take decent bow and be much better than kelbim must make yourself or buy, one +10+11+12 dark bow pvp or +10++ PVE BOw 2SA so you will be the change.
Again r95 blessed +++ etc etc not make any such comparison vs kelbim.
Why would you even comprare a PVE bow with a PVP bow? lol
Why would you even comprare a PVE bow with a PVP bow? lol
If dont are interesting about the point in this post not complain about nothing, first read what ppl are talking about.
Hi Guys,
Just wanna ask if Kelbim bow is still good on this update?
Say for +12 Normal R99 bow, +12 Blesed R99 bow, +12 PVE Bow and +12 PVP bow? Where does it stand? Or is it crap on this update.
All are welcome and free to say whatever..
I dont know who taught you how game system works, but you're wrong.
If someone got 2 pieces holy (aka 240), that means they prolly got 350-400 holy defense fully buffed.
Heck, i got 492 holy and 372 dark without buffs.
So your 450 holy is doing around 12% of maximum damage from attribute, whereas my 650 dark would make the full 25%.
Meaning 13% more than you = 13% you dont take into consideration at all.
About specter bow..
Of course in the best circumstances (100% skill critical chance), a high OE specter bow is going to hit around 10% harder than kelbim.
But how many archers do you see with 100% skill critical chance? ;)
I promise you, DPS is higher on kelbim than on a 15+ blessed specter thrower.
And again, you forget about HP, atk speed and passive reflect on kelbim.
But i guess these days, people are too focused on dealing higher damage than build their char in a smart way.
Kind of like healers going "Lol, how do you kill me! i got 100k HP and 15k P. def!".. maybe if i couldnt permastun you i wouldnt be able to. LOL.
In olympiad you probably stack blessed valakas instead of frintezza soul, tauti ring instead of baium soul and dual class skill "Masters rage" instead of "Physical trait"?
If you dont.. why not? if everything is about damage, why dont you use damage jewelry and dualskill? :o
PS. Im not arguing for the sake of arguing, feel free to post DPS test or something similar between the two and we'll see :)
Last test I did with 7+ blessed specter, my kelbim was hitting around 40% harder.
Was before the patch, so SAs were the old ones, and kelbim P. atk was lower than it is now.
If someone gifts me a 15+ blessed specter i'd be happy to recreate the test :D
I must admit I like this kind of discussion where people get to exercise their mind and theories. Although it feels like things are heating up a little! LOL
Well, I am sure a Kelbim is a great all around weapon before Bloody or Dark; and although with the NEW Soul Crystal Augmentations +12 Blessed Specter does more damage than a Kelbim Bow; but You are right, in general Kelbim is better for PvP mainly because of its + 25% HP and +20% damage reflect.
I had a chance to level my Yul's Dual class, Othell in Kartia 85. I am sure you all know that K85 mobs are dark elemental. My Othell Had Kelbim Dual dagger and +11 Blessed Apocalypse dual Dagger. Kelbim dual had 450 Dark and +11 B.apo dual 300 Holy. For the Maximum Exp gained as much as possible I chose to do the Duo run with just ISS + Othell...with virtually no AOE. Well, Iss had Mass crippling and Mass Shadow Attacks and othell with Razor Rain ..etc. but it was pretty much killing mobs...ONE at a time. The reason Why I mention this is...Killing MObs one at a time.. For K85, on average, it took 45 minutes duo with Kelbim dual dagger and 35 minutes with +11 Blessed Apo Dual, with all other things being the same...Yes, against dark elemental mobs 300 holy was better than 450 dark. You can easily test this too, if you don't believe me. Kelbim daggers and OE Apo daggers are rather cheap. (this was before the "underGround update when There were 7 Waves on Kartia)
And yeah thnx for pointing out about the Buff factor. But in essence the reason behind my original thinking was this.
450 dark on 360 dark resistance
= 450/90 on 360/90
= 5 on 4
300 holy on 240 holy resistance
= 300/60 on 240/60
= 5 on 4....
It's basically the same thing...
Well yeah... you get more Resistance with buffs but basically the Ratio should still stay the same.
As for 1 on 1 PvP, I use Stun set-up like AQ Soul Ring + Baium Soul RING..etc. but for Mass number PvP like Siege, I use Full damage set-up like Tauti Ring(5% skill damage +5% pvp) and Earth Wyrm ring(people don't know this but Earth wyrm = 25% critical damage) and just focus on Damage Dealing. Master's rage = 3 point dual skill. It sounded great but....I discovered that it has such a low chance of being activated....Unlike Tyrr's auto attacks, skill attacks don't go out fast enough. All on Attack power for now since My yul's level is only LvL100 but when he is LvL102+ I am thinking of changing it to 2 on Physical trait and 2 on Mental Trait(PvP set up)
I don't know why You brought this up, it sounded like you were trying to mislead or digress from the main topic, or maybe questioning my knowledge on this matter? But just to show you I am not a Newbie on this subject, I am explaining this to you.
Well, you are right on one thing. Kelbim bow is good until bloody or dark for pvp and good until LvL100 for PvE.
Yes, cap at 1.25xdamage but you forgot that high level mobs can have something like 550 element defense... thats why the more element you got the more damage you have.. and thats 25% ofc... did this came to your mind if element attribute is capped at some point why bother make dragon weapons to have 999 element damage (the stage 3)???... or why bother with adding more element to your weapon... btw my old char has a balance def on every element on full buff each 500+... now imagine if my opponent has only 300 element, what will happen.. 25% less... plus p.def/m.def i have.. plus obsi lvl 4 plus abundance lvl 1 plus anakim plus tauti... imagine the incoming damage to me if my opponent has ONLY 300 element?..
P.s. kelbim is far greater than a specter bow... even +16 blessed...
P.s.2 i agree to znipoo maybe dreamseeker build his char in dps he see.. maybe he didnt know its only sheet dps... maybe he didnt realize all aspects of combat.. youre stunned/paralyzed/yoke/knock down youre doomed
For PvE, there is a little difference between +450 elemental and +600 elemental. So +450 elemental is all you need for PvE.(Unless the weapon elemental and the target's elemental resistance is the same)
But for PvP, there is virtually no limit... however, there is a Jump of Damage at 300, 450, 600. It's like 300 and 440 do about the same damage but the moment the number goes up by 10 hitting 450, there is a sudden damage increase. I don't know why...but it is what it is. Same thing with 590 and 600. Noticable damage difference between 590 and 600 and not much for 460-590.
Yes, you can stack elementals all the way upto 750 with a kelbim bow, but I don't think people who can afford seven Talisman, LvL 5 Opal...etc. will be content with just a Kelbim bow...
Yeah... so you are right. Kelbim is better PvP bow than other OE bows before Bloody or Dark. The truth is +12 Blessed Specter and Kelbim bows are BOTH GOOD! LOL! both 10B +; and for PvE, kelbim is good until LvL100 and not so bad even after 100.
I am sorry for teasing you a little with the possibility of weapon exchange event! You've been teasing me in my past posts, so I just thought I get back to you on that! LOL
I must admit I like this kind of discussion where people get to exercise their mind and theories. Although it feels like things are heating up a little! LOL
Agreed! Sorry if i sound snappy at times :D
I had a chance to level my Yul's Dual class, Othell in Kartia 85. I am sure you all know that K85 mobs are dark elemental. My Othell Had Kelbim Dual dagger and +11 Blessed Apocalypse dual Dagger. Kelbim dual had 450 Dark and +11 B.apo dual 300 Holy. For the Maximum Exp gained as much as possible I chose to do the Duo run with just ISS + Othell...with virtually no AOE. Well, Iss had Mass crippling and Mass Shadow Attacks and othell with Razor Rain ..etc. but it was pretty much killing mobs...ONE at a time. The reason Why I mention this is...Killing MObs one at a time.. at level 85 it took 45 minutes duo with Kelbim dual dagger and 35 minutes with +11 Blessed Apo Dual, with all other things being the same...Yes, against dark elemental mobs 300 holy was better than 450 dark. You can easily test this too, if you don't believe me. Kelbim daggers and OE Apo daggers are rather cheap. (this was before the "underGround update when There were 7 Waves on Kartia)
I really do question that, the SAs before this patch did not increase your damage at all (maybe 1%) in PVE on dualdaggers.
On the other hand, kelbim had +15% critical damage and the P. atk with the two different daggers should have been close to the same when you wore them.
If you can, can you check this again? simply go hit monsters in bloodys wampland a few times, then compare.
But yes, i did test this in LOC.
Dark needed around 520 dark attack to make 25% extra damage, holy needed 390, cant really remember..
but on your test, the +15% critical damage from kelbim should more than make up for the loss in attribute damage.
And yeah thnx for pointing out about the Buff factor. But in essence the reason behind my original thinking was this.
450 dark on 360 dark resistance
= 450/90 on 360/90
= 5 on 4
300 holy on 240 holy resistance
= 300/60 on 240/60
= 5 on 4....
It's basically the same thing...
Well yeah... you get more Resistance with buffs but basically the Ratio should still stay the same.
I did not mean the damage ratio would differ - i were just trying to point out that most people have way higher than 240-300 resist.
About your equations, not sure what you are getting at, but there is no equation to calculate your elemental damage.
But, by observing various tests made by Juji and "other server" staff, each 5 points decrease/increase in attribute defence/attack gives 0.5% higher/less damage.
* Very rough calculation of course, but by comparing numbers at around ~350-400 attribute defense, thats what I came up with.
As for 1 on 1 PvP, I use Stun set-up like AQ Soul Ring + Baium Soul RING..etc. but for Mass number PvP like Siege, I use Full damage set-up like Tauti Ring(5% skill damage +5% pvp) and Earth Wyrm ring(people don't know this but Earth wyrm = 25% critical damage) and just focus on Damage Dealing. Master's rage = 3 point dual skill. It sounded great but....I discovered that it has such a low chance of being activated....Unlike Tyrr's auto attacks, skill attacks don't go out fast enough. All on Attack power for now since My yul's level is only LvL100 but when he is LvL102+ I am thinking changing it to 2 on Physical trait and 2 on Mental Trait(PvP set up)
I don't know why You brought this up, it sounded like you were trying to mislead or digress from the main topic, or maybe to question my knowledge on this matter? But just to show you I am not a Newbie on this subject, I've explaining this to you.
I brought that up because that is what you did.
Compared kelbim to pvp/pve/specter bows simply by comparing the damage, i was simply pointing out that dmg =/= best :o
About earth wyrm, it only has 18% critical damage, all other rings are 15%.
But, you do know the bonus critical damage on rings (and lindvior earring) does NOT work for skills, correct?
They only work for othells :)
And another point to consider - kelbim have +15% critical damage on normal hit.
During raid bosses, you will more than likely use normal hits 95% of the time (skills while arrow is "reloading").
If you do a pvp setup on your bow, you only have +15% skill critical damage.
This gives kelbim yet another advantage over most bows :)
you guys forget attack speed which is like +15% more dps at yul. Also 1500 attack speed is NOT the limit on archer, i use kelbim and have perma 1500 but when do quick fire (+50% attack speed) i do multiple arrow 0,5 times faster as the skill says ...( other skills too ofc but multiple is the most noticable skill effect). Test it by urselves ;)
you guys forget attack speed which is like +15% more dps at yul. Also 1500 attack speed is NOT the limit on archer, i use kelbim and have perma 1500 but when do quick fire (+50% attack speed) i do multiple arrow 0,5 times faster as the skill says ...( other skills too ofc but multiple is the most noticable skill effect). Test it by urselves ;)
Wow thats actually something I didnt know existed or should exist...