What gear would you expect the average player to have nowadays, what is normal to see in town, what gear would you call normal for lvl 100+ friends, party members or clannies to have?
Edit: This is not playtime specific, just average geared player, not new, not 100% never ncoin, just generic player you'd expect to see.
Lv. 100 is by no means "hard to get" these days, easily achieved in a month or two.
In that time, new players have a hard time collecting adena (dont know how to farm, too lazy, dont spend NCoin etc).
I'd say just a 4+ R99 set (or 6+ R95) with OE shadow or 4+ R99 weapon.
COC jewelry with maybe 2 pieces of the cheaper ones (i.e istina necklace, zaken earring).
La vie? lv. 2-3 if they found any cheap.
That is for new people..
Old people.. then gear should be different.
Lv. 100 is by no means "hard to get" these days, easily achieved in a month or two.
In that time, new players have a hard time collecting adena (dont know how to farm, too lazy, dont spend NCoin etc).
I'd say just a 4+ R99 set (or 6+ R95) with OE shadow or 4+ R99 weapon.
COC jewelry with maybe 2 pieces of the cheaper ones (i.e istina necklace, zaken earring).
La vie? lv. 2-3 if they found any cheap.
That is for new people..
Old people.. then gear should be different.
I was meaning just generic "player", not new or old or never bought ncoin or anything specific. Just the players you see and what you'd expect to see in a lvl 100 party as standard gear.
missing the +6/8 R95 option which is doable and offers better bonus then a +4 R99 imo..
btw as said by others lvl 100 doesnt mean that much imo as I did 101 on my ISS alt which at the time was wearing fully elemented +6/7 Imperial Hvy (S grade) set
missing the +6/8 R95 option which is doable and offers better bonus then a +4 R99 imo..
btw as said by others lvl 100 doesnt mean that much imo as I did 101 on my ISS alt which at the time was wearing fully elemented +6/7 Imperial Hvy (S grade) set
I meant to imply OE R95 with (Or Equivalent) in all the options. I stuck with +8 blessed seraph for a long time, that's equivalent to +8 R99.
For me a lvl 100 toon should have blessed twilight set +8.. weapon maybe kelbim/tauti/final stage shadow/+12 or more apocalype/specter weapon will be fine.. jewels is a must especially crit rings and for earrings that special one for increase cp and vamp aura.. must have pvp/pve eternal belt and atleast lvl.5 giant dyes.. la vie doesnt matter as long as we are talking pve side less pvp you need way way more..
Gearing up my fs lvl 101.. it just frustrates me that fs has no 101 skill.. why not improve their plunder skill like a chance to spoil dark stones lol :D:D... anyways a level 100 to be competitive on both aspects needs atleast a bloody set +8... and weapons +12 or more bloody weapon with basic jewels.. and i mean basic baium soul frintezza soul qa soul b zaken and istina.. lol or go for octa isti jewels if cant do with the adena budget... regarding skills all should be +10..
Your truly "average" player... not average in a better clan, especially not in anything approaching a top clan, will most likely still be in seraph, not blessed, not +8, not +6, just seraph. And will likely have, at best, a fairly oe'd apoc weapon of some type.
People in clans that can farm raids effectively (smallest number of people possible), and use/abuse the ncstore frequently tend to lose sight of just how skewed their gear can be compared to the masses.
I have some pretty excellent gear. It's still not as good as everything many top players have. But it's a world away from what the average player has.
I can join a top party and have good DPS compared to the group. Especially as I'm an evicerator with good gear.
But that's all it is to them. They are used to seeing gear like that, and probably have seen even better damage output than I can dish out from others.
Conversely, I join some random PUG and my damage is crazy high to them, and I often mean the difference between getting through the instance/boss fast (or at all in some cases), and having someone drag the whole thing down with one (or more) mistakes.
I said middle option but I'll be honest with you, my biggest complaint/concern regarding "average" players is their general inability to think outside the box and maximize their characters ability/power.
Draecke alluded too it as did you too ferine.
I know quite a few players who are struggling to make a +6 r99 set (and wasting adena on BEAR/Stones) and have a +4/+5 1sa r99 weapon. I tell them the same thing over, and over, and over again but I always get the same response......
A +8 Bless TW Set > +6 r99 (any type) and obviously a +8 r95 set > +6r99. Additionally, a nice OE r/r95 weapon w/2 SA's is VASTLY superior to a +4/+5 1sa r99 weapon. Their response; someday in the distant future I "might" get a 2nd SA/make dark/bloody so I would rather have r99.....
Same thing applies to other items. Dyes is a good example:
"Hey man, why don't you get lv4 Legendary dye set from a fort"
"I am saving for level 5's"
People get locked in to an idea and won't be deterred...... frustrating.
For me a lvl 100 toon should have blessed twilight set +8.. weapon maybe kelbim/tauti/final stage shadow/+12 or more apocalype/specter weapon will be fine.. jewels is a must especially crit rings and for earrings that special one for increase cp and vamp aura.. must have pvp/pve eternal belt and atleast lvl.5 giant dyes.. la vie doesnt matter as long as we are talking pve side less pvp you need way way more..
Gearing up my fs lvl 101.. it just frustrates me that fs has no 101 skill.. why not improve their plunder skill like a chance to spoil dark stones lol :D:D... anyways a level 100 to be competitive on both aspects needs atleast a bloody set +8... and weapons +12 or more bloody weapon with basic jewels.. and i mean basic baium soul frintezza soul qa soul b zaken and istina.. lol or go for octa isti jewels if cant do with the adena budget... regarding skills all should be +10..
I think that new players (ppl that started this game 1 month ago or 2 max like me) that just do kartia daily and swampland for the 500k gold reward, because there is no place that drop good adena and all money goes to soulshots, will have at lv 99 immortal set and apocalypse weapon in average, with a bit of lucky they will get twilight set and apocalypse weapon +4. And for jewels they will be happy if they can get full coc basic set. I have met a lot of ppl in the last month that started 1 or 2 months ago also and all are around lv 90-92 and all have now immortal set and trying to save adena to buy apocalypse weapon. And forget about 300 element weapon or 120 on armors because there is no way to get adena to afford this unless you spend real cash or bot.
I said middle option but I'll be honest with you, my biggest complaint/concern regarding "average" players is their general inability to think outside the box and maximize their characters ability/power.
Draecke alluded too it as did you too ferine.
I know quite a few players who are struggling to make a +6 r99 set (and wasting adena on BEAR/Stones) and have a +4/+5 1sa r99 weapon. I tell them the same thing over, and over, and over again but I always get the same response......
A +8 Bless TW Set > +6 r99 (any type) and obviously a +8 r95 set > +6r99. Additionally, a nice OE r/r95 weapon w/2 SA's is VASTLY superior to a +4/+5 1sa r99 weapon. Their response; someday in the distant future I "might" get a 2nd SA/make dark/bloody so I would rather have r99.....
Same thing applies to other items. Dyes is a good example:
"Hey man, why don't you get lv4 Legendary dye set from a fort"
"I am saving for level 5's"
People get locked in to an idea and won't be deterred...... frustrating.
Completely agreed!
Some people even add dark to their 6+ sets (or lower!) and then they try to enchant with BEAR to make it 8+.
I cant imagine how much money they wasted on that.
Buy clean parts, enchant with GEAR until they fail, then add dark.
Its literally gonna cost you 2-3 times less adena to 8+ it.
As you already said, even a 2SA apocalypse is better than 1SA R99.
Some people spend 6b on kelbim daggers (magmeld price, idk about other servers) cause "They hit so hard" - Regular apocalypse dagger with 2SA and a decent augment is gonna cost you 500m or less, and will hit harder than said kelbim dagger.
Could go on and on, then these people actually say things like "I spent 50b adena and my char still sucks".. yeah no wonder, you spent your 50b like an idiot!
For me a lvl 100 toon should have blessed twilight set +8......
"Should have" is very different to "Average gear", haha.
But sure, if you want to stay competitive you would need to gear up as you said, but thats for a different thread :D
I think that new players (ppl that started this game 1 month ago or 2 max like me) that just do kartia daily and swampland for the 500k gold reward, because there is no place that drop good adena and all money goes to soulshots, will have at lv 99 immortal set and apocalypse weapon in average, with a bit of lucky they will get twilight set and apocalypse weapon +4. And for jewels they will be happy if they can get full coc basic set. I have met a lot of ppl in the last month that started 1 or 2 months ago also and all are around lv 90-92 and all have now immortal set and trying to save adena to buy apocalypse weapon. And forget about 300 element weapon or 120 on armors because there is no way to get adena to afford this unless you spend real cash or bot.
As said before, old players do not know how to farm adena, or simply lack the willpower to do so.
With a minimal investment (drop rate rune) you can farm upwards 40+m adena/hour at garden of genesis, if you buy a 7 day drop rate rune (300m adena if you buy from people), you would have to farm 6 hours to earn those 300m back.
If you farm 4h per day, that means you will make 1.14 billion adena in one week.
If you substract the 300m for the rune, you're looking at 700+m pure profit per week.
If you have prestige rune, there is even more adena to be made.
* This adena is by selling material drops in GOG to GROCERY, aka NPC price.
If your server is alive and well, you could easily make double this adena by selling materials to players.
I was meaning just generic "player", not new or old or never bought ncoin or anything specific. Just the players you see and what you'd expect to see in a lvl 100 party as standard gear.
What I expect to see and what's the actual gear of average player at Lv.100 might be 2 different stories.
A) The reality is ( and I exclude top clans because they do not fit in that category ) R95/R99 armor set ( not silverish nor goldish ), weapon R95/R99 from +3 to +6 ( if it's damage dealer, don't know if it has 1SA or 2SA ), usually people have PVE belts ( DD's with attack option, Supports with defence ), CoC jewelry and some minor epic or two.
B) Expectations: if you're DD i'd expect you to have 2 rings with +15% critical damage- it doesn't matter what rings exactly ( might be A Grade Olympiad rings ). Most important, i expect average player to be familiar with his class skills and be able to use them correctly. For instance if you're Wynn Summoner you must be conscious about your pet trigger ( Arcane Link, Elemental Link and so on ), many Wynns don't even know that such thing exist. If you are Tyrr and you play in a group that has a tank then switch to Bear totem instead of using Ogre- damage difference is noticeable... and stop spamming Mega Strikes and Power Bombers on Rb's. If you are Othell hit from behind and don't forget about Critical Wound. If you are Iss use Wizard Harmony on yourself before casting Battle Rhapsody- then switch back to Warrior/Knight if needed.
I am one of those crazy people that values knowledge over items ( with knowledge you'll receive your needed items someday, without knowledge your items won't be so usefull ).
lol on zaken i have dark r99 bow +11 and +8 eternal, 5 slot brooch, ruby lv 4, am lv 100 yul. also its one of only 4 dark bows on server :D only been playin 12 weeks
granted ive spent 1500 on l2store, its like 1 and a half buyins at my local 5/10 poker game lol so i dont care.
For LvL 100 PvE, Next should be good enough for most parties.
Tank:
Paladin + Evas Templar = +6 eternal set, +15 con dye, PvE defense belt
shilien Templar + Dark Avenger = Above + Diamond LvL3+, Anakim
weapons don't matter much but good enough to hold Aggro. +25 Health SA
Iss: same set up as tank
+6 eternal, + 15 con dye, PvE defense, +25 HP SA weapon.
Healer: +6 eternal robe, +15 con Dye, PvE defense belt, 1 hand mage weapon +25% HP (Diamond 3+ anakim = GOOD!)
+ Sigil(Extra def)
Tyrr, Othell, Yul: +6 eternal set, +7 R99 weapon, Ruby3, Dia 3, +15 Str or Dex dye (+15 STR for all in most cases). AQ regular, Octavis Warrior, Baium(basically 2 x 15% crit rings)
16 AP is the key. Basically the goal of any LvL 100 is to stay alive and carry on. If the toon keeps dying then they should put every AP into HP + DEF; and as the toon gears up, they can change the AP into whatever the person prefers. This is where Tauti and Kelbim come in. For any average geared LvL100, if they have Kelbim or Tauti, they can boost their HP by 25% without sacrificing damage.
mmmm Event Immortal armors +0 and Event Requiem weapons +0 and no shots is most used for 24/7 farmers. So much farm and ppl are still without gold. After all with our drop rates...
I have the solution! Do the same gift boxes that new characters get from lv 1 to 84. At 85-89 give immortal set and requiem weapons in boxes. At 91-94 give twilight armors and apocalypse weapons,95-98 give seraph armors and specter weapons and after 99 give the last set and weapons. You should give all those as Event so not tradeable. This will stop a lot bots, cause all ppl will get decent gear for each lv like we get now from lv 1 to 84. Do this or increase world drop rate of adena and full drops cause as game is now is super hard for new players get right gear at each lv.
Really depends on on the Standard which is being implied.
For normal pts would say anything from +5 to +6 some parts +4 lol
Weapons huge difference from +5-+8 single/double sa.
Mix of coc+octa/istina-baium-aq jewelry.
2 Slot Brooch now will be mainly Lv4 with 2-4lv Jewels.
90% running coc belts class specific.
Mainly Tyrrs(titans-maestros-non pvp oriented duelists) - under geared +5 weap. no jewels etc.
Tanks top +6 r99 armors. Good for Kama bad for AF.
Evi -Hero fists b baium+b aq.
ISS-twilight/r99 5+8 Depends Alt or main.
Othels - +4/+6 r99 +7 r99 weap/kelbim.
Yuls +4/+6/ armor mainly kelbim.
Heals- robe/mainly oly oriented as for instances gear doesn't matter.
not 100 yet, but close enough and my gear will not change till then ayway
Evi: +4 1SA R99 300, r99 LA set (+3-+5 120 mostly), ruby lvl 3, +3str bracelet
Healer: r95 +3 robes, archangel sword (s80)
both: ch belt, soul AQ, normal baium, normal valakas, normal antharas, normal zaken, rudolph,
no dyes on either worth mentioning, lvl 2 diamond
ISS: s80 +6 120 (my old oly gear, works awesome on pve iss), apo 300 1sa, normal frint
heal has no issues at all, evi could always do more dmg and be able to "tank" better but still does ok compared to many other 100's imo, iss has no issues at all
I do agree people should have better than "total crap" gear when you get to a certain level, but the idea that certain gear is "required" at a certain level saddens me. And not that I feel bad for the poor people that can't get out of the event requiem and immortal, but I feel bad that we all want everything to not be challenging anymore. Everyone wants a guaranteed win in everything we do (instances etc..). Doesn't anyone fail anymore and get mad and anxious to try again? All this win win win...people are bored as shhh! Think about the old days...other games...dying time and time again trying to master and beat a level (any game)....you get so mad and pumped, and can't wait to try again... Now you log in, do every daily as fast as you can so you can go to work, or log off for whatever reason. The fun is gone. The challenge is non-existant. There's no gratification and/or satisfaction anymore. Screw that...that's why the attitude of people is that the game is dying. We're bored stiff! The only exception to this is that some instances have a time limit.... Beyond that, we're spoiled rotten brats only as good as our wallets allow. And after that's all said and done, what do we have? Boredom
I do agree people should have better than "total crap" gear when you get to a certain level, but the idea that certain gear is "required" at a certain level saddens me. And not that I feel bad for the poor people that can't get out of the event requiem and immortal, but I feel bad that we all want everything to not be challenging anymore. Everyone wants a guaranteed win in everything we do (instances etc..). Doesn't anyone fail anymore and get mad and anxious to try again? All this win win win...people are bored as shhh! Think about the old days...other games...dying time and time again trying to master and beat a level (any game)....you get so mad and pumped, and can't wait to try again... Now you log in, do every daily as fast as you can so you can go to work, or log off for whatever reason. The fun is gone. The challenge is non-existant. There's no gratification and/or satisfaction anymore. Screw that...that's why the attitude of people is that the game is dying. We're bored stiff! The only exception to this is that some instances have a time limit.... Beyond that, we're spoiled rotten brats only as good as our wallets allow. And after that's all said and done, what do we have? Boredom
My biggest issue with the way people gear themselves in l2 is that they want the BEST for their level, at every level, even when they know they lack the means to get it.
They will waste all their money getting mediocre "appropriate" gear at every level, never truly finishing it off, only to repeat the process at the next equipment grade.
If you can afford to make those changes, by all means, go for it.
But most should be looking towards 99+ and working on having the best gear then, with acceptable gear now.
A good ++ Immo set (with full elements or close), will last you fine till 99 in almost every case. Just make sure your damage is decent (opposite for a tank that isn't soloing).
And for most people who don't PvP, and won't be getting dark/bloody, a good set of r95 gear is more than acceptable. This is especially true if you manage to get some or all of the parts blessed and OE'd a good deal
My biggest issue with the way people gear themselves in l2 is that they want the BEST for their level, at every level, even when they know they lack the means to get it.
They will waste all their money getting mediocre "appropriate" gear at every level, never truly finishing it off, only to repeat the process at the next equipment grade.
If you can afford to make those changes, by all means, go for it.
But most should be looking towards 99+ and working on having the best gear then, with acceptable gear now.
A good ++ Immo set (with full elements or close), will last you fine till 99 in almost every case. Just make sure your damage is decent (opposite for a tank that isn't soloing).
And for most people who don't PvP, and won't be getting dark/bloody, a good set of r95 gear is more than acceptable. This is especially true if you manage to get some or all of the parts blessed and OE'd a good deal
Says the guy who bought an insanity talisman whilst wearing +8 immo and non-pve fists. :P
Says the guy who bought an insanity talisman whilst wearing +8 immo and non-pve fists. :P
Exactly. And I wore +6 immo on my tank until I upgraded to seraph (and only because it was back when you got half the set via quests). I would have sold it had I known the difference was so minimal too.
But that's the point. I worked out the logistics and I spent, in total, less on the entire +8 blessed immo set than most paid for 1-2 parts of +6 standard r99 at the time.
If I was going just total PvE, and only decent/good at it... and certainly never wanted to touch oly, never wanted more than to lay dead on the field for fame in sieges, etc. It would have been 100% fine. I never would have needed to upgrade much of anything.
To lots of people that's all they want. But they still want the shiny stuff on the next grade even when they have no real way of making it be as effective as a cheaper, but better outfitted, set of equipment a grade lower.
Exactly. And I wore +6 immo on my tank until I upgraded to seraph (and only because it was back when you got half the set via quests). I would have sold it had I known the difference was so minimal too.
But that's the point. I worked out the logistics and I spent, in total, less on the entire +8 blessed immo set than most paid for 1-2 parts of +6 standard r99 at the time.
If I was going just total PvE, and only decent/good at it... and certainly never wanted to touch oly, never wanted more than to lay dead on the field for fame in sieges, etc. It would have been 100% fine. I never would have needed to upgrade much of anything.
To lots of people that's all they want. But they still want the shiny stuff on the next grade even when they have no real way of making it be as effective as a cheaper, but better outfitted, set of equipment a grade lower.Part of the issue is the lack of up to date information. What information there is trends along the lines of unless you have +8 eternal bloody , a +15 weapon level 5 jewels and some mystery AP build YOU"RE A SCRUB AND DON"T DESERVE TO PLAY!!!. I've been searching a lot on the forums and via google for information. On these forums most people take question threads as a chance to brag about how big their epenor is. Although in this thread I feel like I got some good answers on bang for the buck upgrades for my characters. So thanks for the information here.
As for me I have no jewels and I'm working on the jewelry side of things as the CoC grind takes forever. Probably because my gear is awful so I get rolfstomped by the first target 80% of the time. Armor is +4 r95 (got it at a price on par with twilight) with a +4 dual SA apoc weapon. Got the 10 day quest stuff and some of the other quests like that. +15 dyes but they are lvl 4 so -stat.