"I need this, I need that, I MUST have this, I must win... ... ..."
I just love the mindset of some people playing Lineage 2. Where is the fun when you make the game a burden to yourself? Why do the game as a duty to yourself? Do you really need to win that much you entirely focus on keeping up with the train NCSoft fuels to get the stuff you "Need" to be and stay at the top? Is it that important to you? I will analyze the situation in a 5-year old server and focus only on that, I will make no comparisons to private servers.
Let's say that nobody was like I just described, let's say it was 5 years ago when people actually played for fun and the system wasn't built up in a way that the rich get richer and poor become poorer, and the only way to reach "the top" isn't your wallet or alternative legal/illegal methods which require a lot of commitment, wouldn't the game be a much better place to be, and play? Ask yourself, wouldn't it be a lot more fun and less stressful, for all of the players except the top 7 or 14 or 21 players which even use the corrupt system to gain money, as they have the resources to do that?
One thing is that NCSoft built the game up in a way it is possible - actively playing by doing instances and quests, and trading a bit on markets earns you around 2 billions per month, while "strong clan" CP members earn 1-2 billion adena per week, and "top clan" leading members earn around 20 billion of adena per month, which is like 5 bil adena per week - and made full gear (top-tier gear) cost hundreds, even thousands of billions, how can a normal player (even if he plays by himself 4-6 hours per day) can compete with a "strong player" or a "top player"?
There is no way, anything you do in the game. You don't have enough gear to take raids from someone else, you won't get numbers to outdamage it and take drops in CC, you are not able to compete anything on field as some really geared characters farm even every single field raid which is higher than 88. So how exactly is it possible for a normal player, to, let's say play?.
Some people say that the game was better before Goddess of Destruction and that the game became free to play because the gearing up system was different, game was pay to play and there were less bots and so on. Yes, those are some of the causes to current situation - with pay to play game there would be a lot less bots, with different gearing system and lower gap between high-geared, mid-geared and low-geared players there would be no dominance of one clan over everything and so on.
The reasons are not wrong that they are one of the causes, but they are not the main cause The reason it is hard to have fun now (unless you count constantly dealing with random players in instances as fun or some "epics", which are boxed by top clans, with your small clan) is mainly the community and the mindset of people, which I described in the first sentence of this post. It's not even literally ruined by the game's evolution, game moderators, but players itself.
There is no gearing up for new players which join a clan (reason behind it: greedy scammers which clans are afraid of; no gear to give away; no commitment and only thinking for yourself), no decent activities for my-described "normal" people (with top clans farming even the field raids, not talking about grand bosses), and it is not getting better. In the future updates there will come enchanting epic jewels with silenite, ultimate armors, which enlargen the gap between ruling and normal players even higher.
I really want you all thinking of how it should continue in this game, how would you like the game to be, and how you would like the community to exist. It might be late to prevent some things, but it is never late to make some things better. Start with yourself and then influence others in a good way to make the change. A game's focus should be on having fun, I am telling you, please have it, or at least work towards it.
I want to thank everyone for reading through it all, as you obviously made it to this point when you did. Please take into consideration that I am writing based on the situation in Freya's server. If anyone is wondering what's my "start", then I will form a CP myself, in my clan, and have fun. :)
"I need this, I need that, I MUST have this, I must win... ... ..."
I just love the mindset of some people playing Lineage 2. Where is the fun when you make the game a burden to yourself? Why do the game as a duty to yourself? Do you really need to win that much you entirely focus on keeping up with the train NCSoft fuels to get the stuff you "Need" to be and stay at the top? Is it that important to you? I will analyze the situation in a 5-year old server and focus only on that, I will make no comparisons to private servers.
Let's say that nobody was like I just described, let's say it was 5 years ago when people actually played for fun and the system wasn't built up in a way that the rich get richer and poor become poorer, and the only way to reach "the top" isn't your wallet or alternative legal/illegal methods which require a lot of commitment, wouldn't the game be a much better place to be, and play? Ask yourself, wouldn't it be a lot more fun and less stressful, for all of the players except the top 7 or 14 or 21 players which even use the corrupt system to gain money, as they have the resources to do that?
One thing is that NCSoft built the game up in a way it is possible - actively playing by doing instances and quests, and trading a bit on markets earns you around 2 billions per month, while "strong clan" CP members earn 1-2 billion adena per week, and "top clan" leading members earn around 20 billion of adena per month, which is like 5 bil adena per week - and made full gear (top-tier gear) cost hundreds, even thousands of billions, how can a normal player (even if he plays by himself 4-6 hours per day) can compete with a "strong player" or a "top player"?
There is no way, anything you do in the game. You don't have enough gear to take raids from someone else, you won't get numbers to outdamage it and take drops in CC, you are not able to compete anything on field as some really geared characters farm even every single field raid which is higher than 88. So how exactly is it possible for a normal player, to, let's say play?.
Some people say that the game was better before Goddess of Destruction and that the game became free to play because the gearing up system was different, game was pay to play and there were less bots and so on. Yes, those are some of the causes to current situation - with pay to play game there would be a lot less bots, with different gearing system and lower gap between high-geared, mid-geared and low-geared players there would be no dominance of one clan over everything and so on.
The reasons are not wrong that they are one of the causes, but they are not the main cause The reason it is hard to have fun now (unless you count constantly dealing with random players in instances as fun or some "epics", which are boxed by top clans, with your small clan) is mainly the community and the mindset of people, which I described in the first sentence of this post. It's not even literally ruined by the game's evolution, game moderators, but players itself.
There is no gearing up for new players which join a clan (reason behind it: greedy scammers which clans are afraid of; no gear to give away; no commitment and only thinking for yourself), no decent activities for my-described "normal" people (with top clans farming even the field raids, not talking about grand bosses), and it is not getting better. In the future updates there will come enchanting epic jewels with silenite, ultimate armors, which enlargen the gap between ruling and normal players even higher.
I really want you all thinking of how it should continue in this game, how would you like the game to be, and how you would like the community to exist. It might be late to prevent some things, but it is never late to make some things better. Start with yourself and then influence others in a good way to make the change. A game's focus should be on having fun, I am telling you, please have it, or at least work towards it.
I want to thank everyone for reading through it all, as you obviously made it to this point when you did. Please take into consideration that I am writing based on the situation in Freya's server. If anyone is wondering what's my "start", then I will form a CP myself, in my clan, and have fun. :)
- Varien, Freya
Hello, good post, i agree with you but in my point of view this wont change and i tell you why. There are two main problems with this game, one is NCWest, as you said before, the game they are building is for the actual community, they dont try to change it, people who spend thousands of dollares/month in a game. And the second problem is, the community itself, most of "Good players" left, all we have now is a bunch of this players who dont even play the game, they just farm it and spend money on it and NCWest know about this.
Lets take for example, the events, i dont need to remind you how events in the past were and just see how events are now, the team dont even bother in doing something good, because the actual game community just accept it, everytime they release a stupid event whre you have to buy "Boxes" for a chance to get an item spending $200, $300, $1000 or even more money, people just buy it, it works for them why change it?
Another example, and its funny and sad at the same time is, a few weeks ago, a guy posted about an old quest to raise clan level was bugged, Do you know what the actual community answered him? "Why the take the difficult way? Raise clan level with Marks Of battle"... they guy, just wanted to play the game, didnt want to "farm" the game, like the actual community does, and all the people that used to "Play" the game left it.
So, in fact this wont change because developers are getting what they want, money, and because the actual community accept this. Enjoy the people who play the game, have fun with friends if you have them here, this game will die in 2 years top.
I like the philosophical thinking displayed here. Thanks for the insight.
The only thing we can do at this point is controlling the amount of money we spend at Nstore. It is the players spending thoughtlessly at Nstore Promos that is encouraging NCsoft to come up with more and more ridiculous promos.
Spend money only when the Promo is reasonable and good and don't spend when it's bad. And most of all, we should always share the outcome of every Nstore promos and let NC know how we think all the time.
If u cant or dont want to spend 300-1.000$ x l2store event just leave server, this game turn into extreme pay to win, no chance if u are "free user"...is like fight lv85 char vs lv40 char and every "new event" worse and worse...
Any private server bring more chance than trash official server, full of bots, rmters and Gm's know this but they ******* care last 5 years, they just want ur money...
If GM ban all bots & rmters l2 ncwest is over, people think play in official server is the best option if u love l2 as game,,, maybe some years ago, now is the worst option u can choose if u dont have thousands of dollars or u are not "leader" or cp member of top rmt clan like dragonhunters or navigatos x example...
Official servers are pure business only created for extreme pay to win players where a free user player sadly is the last shiit.
I remember the famous pic where juji know and say exeqtor party is using bot in gainak and no punishment...this server is just a joke...I regret the time I lost here.. the only good thing is the friends i did here, nothing more.
I acknowledge and agree that it's the community, I just wish I knew how to change it, if I could do something myself. I have spent some, but when I found out you have to spend a lot to achieve something I quit doing that. I don't want to quit the game, I am spending time with some friends here, just some of the game aspects are generally frustrating me.
I just wish that a game wasn't money-orientated, but well it is, and as you said, community accepted it.
I don't care much about winning, I just wish there was a fun form of gameplay available for those "free" players, without "top" players affecting it and being able to control anything related to that gameplay form.
Now when I come to think about it, I understand why some people keep making new toons and level them up, why some fish 24/7 and why some play around on markets. It's an alternative way to play, but there aren't any ways to have "equal gear" PvP, not even an instance without any rewards.
Hello there, I've been playing Lineage since it appeared, I played all of that time in a private server x1 (Oficial kind) I got max lv and started to get bored and sadly become a PTW with time, about 2 or 3 month I started here.
I think that no matters what game it is about, all of them will includ a strong, well developed monetary sistem and you no have a chance to make a significant change on this, even when I have the possibility to pay I chose not to do it.
I have 6 diferent chars, I use them all, I dont care about reaching lv 100 ASAP, I just do what I like on game... In my point of view, one of the best things on this server is the limitated amount of ONLINE client per user. The worst thing in it, is the amount of adena dropped on hunting...
"I need this, I need that, I MUST have this, I must win... ... ..."
... If anyone is wondering what's my "start", then I will form a CP myself, in my clan, and have fun. :)
- Varien, Freya
Wich is your clan? could I contact you online?!?!? My Char is Apsu (yul), you can also find me on Shuu (Cardinal), Janha SoulHound, Utu (Ertheia), Lahmu (ST), Pukutula (Iss)
...one of the best things on this server is the limitated amount of ONLINE client per user...
Oh bro, so, the thing is... well... you know the story about the Easter bunny, Santa, leprechauns, equal rights, your vote counts, freedom of speech, cheaters get banned... I sure have heard of these, even read them, yet when i look around, they seem not to be there. So, prepare for some surprises. Have fun! :)
Wich is your clan? could I contact you online?!?!? My Char is Apsu (yul), you can also find me on Shuu (Cardinal), Janha SoulHound, Utu (Ertheia), Lahmu (ST), Pukutula (Iss)
My character's name is Varien and it is located in Freya server Prophecy clan. I'm usually online 20:00 - 24:00 +2 GMT.
You're about 5-6 years too late to give this talk. The players left in the game now are largely the players who are fine with the status quo.
The players who left are the ones who tried to "change things," but realized it was impossible for them to enact any change.
Part of that is the fact that the game you play is an export version of NCSoft's game, and the developers that are accountable to you are not the ones who are designing and developing the game. As a result, you have very very little influence on the direction the games take into the future.
The second part is the fact that the status quo works for the majority of people who support it. Why would they support anything else, when the system they are exploiting works perfectly fine for them?
The issue with MMORPG players noticing the communities they are apart of are awful is not new to L2 or the genre. It's generally the way things go as a game ages. Generally, the "decent people," are typically first to exit. This leaves a higher concentration (per capita) of awful people to contend with.
Once you start throwing server mergers into the mix, and allowing people to buy power (L2Store, generally lax attitude towards Botting/Power Levelers/Account Sharing/RMT over the gears, etc.); it throws things out of control.
Personally, I don't see this changing.
The game is too old to see a decent influx of new players, and that's the only thing that could really change things. Communities don't tend to self-correct. The best way to combat these issues is to marginalize the bad actors, but this almost never happens in MMORPGs due to the age of games (10+ year old games) serving as a detractor to players entering the market.
The game is neither a relaxation nor a job, at this point.
The entertainment you derive out of it isn't worth the time investment it requires, and it doesn't give you any material gain for the time you spend in it. It's neither. It's more like a ponzy scheme for NCSoft to make lots of money with very little effort, by exploiting the competitiveness of the people who play it.
Trenshero, I'm grateful for the detailed response you wrote about the situation in this game. You answered most of my thoughts and questions and I agree with all you said.
I know that it's late or nothing has really an effect on things to change, but still it won't be any better with people sitting and doing better.
Myself I aim to be able to be as good in Lineage, without wasting a lot of money, as any other person who can afford everything. And I still hope, always will, that things change one day, though it is a probability the game will be the same until the servers get shut down.
After all, the things you said about people's behaviour in communities made me understand why most of my friends have quit the game or gone to a private server.
After all, the things you said about people's behaviour in communities made me understand why most of my friends have quit the game or gone to a private server.
"I need this, I need that, I MUST have this, I must win... ... ..."
I just love the mindset of some people playing Lineage 2. Where is the fun when you make the game a burden to yourself? Why do the game as a duty to yourself? Do you really need to win that much you entirely focus on keeping up with the train NCSoft fuels to get the stuff you "Need" to be and stay at the top? Is it that important to you? I will analyze the situation in a 5-year old server and focus only on that, I will make no comparisons to private servers.
Let's say that nobody was like I just described, let's say it was 5 years ago when people actually played for fun and the system wasn't built up in a way that the rich get richer and poor become poorer, and the only way to reach "the top" isn't your wallet or alternative legal/illegal methods which require a lot of commitment, wouldn't the game be a much better place to be, and play? Ask yourself, wouldn't it be a lot more fun and less stressful, for all of the players except the top 7 or 14 or 21 players which even use the corrupt system to gain money, as they have the resources to do that?
One thing is that NCSoft built the game up in a way it is possible - actively playing by doing instances and quests, and trading a bit on markets earns you around 2 billions per month, while "strong clan" CP members earn 1-2 billion adena per week, and "top clan" leading members earn around 20 billion of adena per month, which is like 5 bil adena per week - and made full gear (top-tier gear) cost hundreds, even thousands of billions, how can a normal player (even if he plays by himself 4-6 hours per day) can compete with a "strong player" or a "top player"?
There is no way, anything you do in the game. You don't have enough gear to take raids from someone else, you won't get numbers to outdamage it and take drops in CC, you are not able to compete anything on field as some really geared characters farm even every single field raid which is higher than 88. So how exactly is it possible for a normal player, to, let's say play?.
Some people say that the game was better before Goddess of Destruction and that the game became free to play because the gearing up system was different, game was pay to play and there were less bots and so on. Yes, those are some of the causes to current situation - with pay to play game there would be a lot less bots, with different gearing system and lower gap between high-geared, mid-geared and low-geared players there would be no dominance of one clan over everything and so on.
The reasons are not wrong that they are one of the causes, but they are not the main cause The reason it is hard to have fun now (unless you count constantly dealing with random players in instances as fun or some "epics", which are boxed by top clans, with your small clan) is mainly the community and the mindset of people, which I described in the first sentence of this post. It's not even literally ruined by the game's evolution, game moderators, but players itself.
There is no gearing up for new players which join a clan (reason behind it: greedy scammers which clans are afraid of; no gear to give away; no commitment and only thinking for yourself), no decent activities for my-described "normal" people (with top clans farming even the field raids, not talking about grand bosses), and it is not getting better. In the future updates there will come enchanting epic jewels with silenite, ultimate armors, which enlargen the gap between ruling and normal players even higher.
I really want you all thinking of how it should continue in this game, how would you like the game to be, and how you would like the community to exist. It might be late to prevent some things, but it is never late to make some things better. Start with yourself and then influence others in a good way to make the change. A game's focus should be on having fun, I am telling you, please have it, or at least work towards it.
I want to thank everyone for reading through it all, as you obviously made it to this point when you did. Please take into consideration that I am writing based on the situation in Freya's server. If anyone is wondering what's my "start", then I will form a CP myself, in my clan, and have fun. :)
- Varien, Freya
Good Afternoon (Using Google Translate)
I agree with you, I see a lot of people leaving NCsoft West servers and going to the official servers in Europe and Asia, because it is much better, there they have real control of everything, who uses Bot is really banned, here it seems that NCsoft Is afraid to ban influential players, so to speak, even influential. The most interesting of these players that use Bot, and with that they equip themselves better, get lvl high faster, get the best items, because it has a whole chain of chars killing mobs and picking up items, adena and etc, and NCsoft does not anything. NCsoft pretends to act, she banished only the chars of them that hunt adena, they cite the items, but she did not ban the owner of the chars, because I believe she has how she knows, through the I.P, etc.
The most interesting thing I've been observing is that these players who do not comply with the rules of the game and server, who have evolved fast from lvl, using Bot, who are strong using Bot, and who dominate the servers with their clans and ally and With their other various clans, which they take castle and places these clans of them, so they have the monopoly of everything, love to take a wave, loves to say that they are the best, the most powerful, even themselves knowing that they are only strong, for Who use the wrong method, to use forbidden programs and at the same time, NCsoft takes a hard look. For now I wonder, when the server updated, that the lvl jumped from 99 to 104, in a few months, less than 2 months, already had players with chars lvl 101, 102, even buying Rune in the store with Ncoins, a player There would be no way to stay hours and hours and hours up.
But, I do not even care about it anymore. The game has already lost its grace, the number of players only decreases, and surely NCsoft West is the one who loses more, while other Ncsoft Europe and Asia wins. And besides, ********, PVPs are getting stationary, the game is losing relevance in the lives of many players, this is because, players who break rules, kill their own gameplay, and even though they know they're strong, they're fine Equipped, by using Bots, still are in the right to take off wave, to be superior. And over time, we will see several other players not wanting to do pvp, not wanting to go to Siege anymore and not wanting to go to the Olympics anymore, because it is not fun to go to these places and realize that those who dominate are players and Clans that everyone Knows that it makes intense use of Bot, and that have several chars that are getting adena, items and more items so they can make more adenas, and thus dominate ... Unfortunately, Lineage 2 had everything to be a beautiful one of a game, And a competitor the height of World of Warcraft, but I believe that WOW players love WOW more than Lineage players because WOW players mostly avoid using these forbidden programs and those of Lineage, Spoil the game as they are unable to evolve in an honest way.
And there is another detail, these players that form strong clans and dominates, where most use these programs, they themselves kill the game, because nobody will have the ability to fight them at the same level, and end up not cheering on anything, if I was the players of all the Lineage servers, if I were all the other clans, who want a better Lineage, without using Bot, without using programs that control their characters and etc, would begin to no longer participate in trick, pvp , Olympics, siege and just would do PVE and evolve, will take, will, but if they continue to go on siege, COC, Olympics, go on any crap and etc, guys continued to make use of Bot ... Leave them isolated , Let them treting between them, imagine, he quite equipped and having no one to do pvp, they going to the Olympics, and only having people from their clans and etc ...
would begin to no longer participate in trick, pvp , Olympics, siege and just would do PVE and evolve, will take, will, but if they continue to go on siege, COC, Olympics, go on any crap and etc
You can easily cooperate with a large group of non-bot using friends and feed yourselves to win CoC and Oly. It's not exactly a secret, you know; it's the way L2 was intended to be played from the start.
You can easily cooperate with a large group of non-bot using friends and feed yourselves to win CoC and Oly. It's not exactly a secret, you know; it's the way L2 was intended to be played from the start.
Feeding is lame.
Anyways, is thd situation better in EU and Korea servers?