When comparing Yul, Othell and Feoh I think it's kinda balanced.
For Single Target, Othell >> Yul >> Feoh
For AOE, Feoh >> Yul >> Othell(almost no AOE)
but I think Yul archer's damage needs to be boosted bit more.
I think Yul archers should be allowed to have the same benefit from normal critical damage stacks like Othell. Right now, Boss Jewels like AQ or Baium does almost nothing for Yul's skill damage and I think it's very unfair. The only boss jewels that are actually useful for Yul archer class are just Blessed Valakas + Tauti ring for like 5% + 5% = 10% skill damage increase only...
Even with this increase, the game balance should be ok, I think.
With the Grand Crusade, Yul archers got 101 skill nerfed(for GS 45% Skill power ---> 15%) and ultimate evasion(90% skill evasion ---> 50%, magic immune --> 100% magic defense) so I don't think it should disrupt the PvP or PvE balance anyways.
Othell class has a faster skill rotation(especially WR, can spam skills after 101 LOL) and got so many skill evasion skills + stuns + knock back + target cancel + hide; So othell will still have the upper hand in PvP and PvE single target.
Also against a feoh...that embodied armor toggle skill...LOL absorbs 95% damage...LOL I don't think this increase of Yul is gonna hurt feoh class either.
My god...So many Yul archers quitting or rerolling....
Oh c mon...rly? Yull damage is low...wtf?
As long as yull is capable to hit for 2 mil damage in a +8 R99 heavy there is no logical argument to increse his damage.
Btw..."and healers have faster casting spell then yull...and iss's are so nasty with those buffs, too much buffs for them...Tank can wear heavy but yull dont, why? You didnt see archers in heavy armor with bow in movies?"
When comparing Yul, Othell and Feoh I think it's kinda balanced.
For Single Target, Othell >> Yul >> Feoh
For AOE, Feoh >> Yul >> Othell(almost no AOE)
but I think Yul archer's damage needs to be boosted bit more.
I think Yul archers should be allowed to have the same benefit from normal critical damage stacks like Othell. Right now, Boss Jewels like AQ or Baium does almost nothing for Yul's skill damage and I think it's very unfair. The only boss jewels that are actually useful for Yul archer class are just Blessed Valakas + Tauti ring for like 5% + 5% = 10% skill damage increase only...
Even with this increase, the game balance should be ok, I think.
With the Grand Crusade, Yul archers got 101 skill nerfed(for GS 45% Skill power ---> 15%) and ultimate evasion(90% skill evasion ---> 50%, magic immune --> 100% magic defense) so I don't think it should disrupt the PvP or PvE balance anyways.
Othell class has a faster skill rotation(especially WR, can spam skills after 101 LOL) and got so many skill evasion skills + stuns + knock back + target cancel + hide; So othell will still have the upper hand in PvP and PvE single target.
Also against a feoh...that embodied armor toggle skill...LOL absorbs 95% damage...LOL I don't think this increase of Yul is gonna hurt feoh class either.
My god...So many Yul archers quitting or rerolling....
To my opinion, the game don't need to increase again damages. They need to decrease ALL PvP damages.
When you see that a player with 150k hp (actually HP cap without dragon weapon), full PvP set / items for PvP damage reduction, taking between 180k to 350k damages in one hit .. It's a non sence. With the next tank update that will destroy the actual PvP meta with 2 tanks that could chain UD's will be over. This mean one PvP will be 1/2 min long. And over.
If you wanna put back the PvP in front of this game, reduce all PvP damages from all classes. To increase the average PvP time. If everything is done in 1 minute, where is the fun ?
To my opinion, the game don't need to increase again damages. They need to decrease ALL PvP damages.
When you see that a player with 150k hp (actually HP cap without dragon weapon), full PvP set / items for PvP damage reduction, taking between 180k to 350k damages in one hit .. It's a non sence. With the next tank update that will destroy the actual PvP meta with 2 tanks that could chain UD's will be over. This mean one PvP will be 1/2 min long. And over.
If you wanna put back the PvP in front of this game, reduce all PvP damages from all classes. To increase the average PvP time. If everything is done in 1 minute, where is the fun ?
Yeah, it is quite upsetting, we got players with Dragon Weapon + LvL 6 Lavien Jewels and they can 1 shot pretty much everybody. A feoh with Dragon Weapon stage2 + Lavien Rose LvL6 Jewels AOE 1 shotting everybody at Siege...(I think everyone doing PvP in Chronos knows who I am talking about) But that's more to do with NC not really thinking it through before they unleash a new balance disturbing item, and the discussion about the Yul Archer's damage is a different issue.
I sometimes wish, NC would ask for my permission first! before they decide to introduce a new balance disturbing item into the game. LOL
Grand Crusade Update Boosted class Feoh + LvL2 Dragon Weapon + La vien Rose LvL 6 Jewels!
Who would've thought? Just LOL.
Just to make things fair, I think people playing Tank, Iss, Healer should keep asking NC to boost their defensive abilities, rather than asking for nerfing the other DD classes.
go skill power, and stack as much skill crit dmg and yeh dagger crit dmg boost its stupid nowadays beyong op, but whatever.
the only problem i get with the current status that hold my pve performance its skill cd i usually do the combo and stay 3 sec waiting(you must say its not much, believe me looks like a eternity haha)... yeh eva rune and such
Just to make things fair, I think people playing Tank, Iss, Healer should keep asking NC to boost their defensive abilities, rather than asking for nerfing the other DD classes.
at the same token mages/archers/daggers should stop asking for dps improvements, only Tyrs/Wynn have a right to complain ;)
Oh...you mean, they won't be able to use SOS??? and by "tyrs" you mean titan? Is Titan the only Tyr class that's available? and the rest is just meaningless garbage? I hope you don't mean by that.
You know..I am kinda glad SOS play is going away. I've always felt that SOS damage was too unreal almost to the point it was a bug or some kind of loophole in the game system. They will just have to learn to start playing Normal like the other DDs.
go skill power, and stack as much skill crit dmg and yeh dagger crit dmg boost its stupid nowadays beyong op, but whatever.
the only problem i get with the current status that hold my pve performance its skill cd i usually do the combo and stay 3 sec waiting(you must say its not much, believe me looks like a eternity haha)... yeh eva rune and such
Yes, it is possible to stack damage for Yul but what bothers me the most is that, in almost all cases, Yul gets only 50% return for the gear investments.
It's like to make a good Yul, one needs to at least Double or even Triple the adena spent. It's rather unfair , isn't it?
For skill damage OE weapon, we get only 1/4 increase from the P.Atk Increase, whereas tyrr class gets full 100% damage increase.
so the increase of 400 = increase of 100 for Yul, how fair is this? Think about Red Cat's too. Othell gets 100% benefit from it and Yul only 50%.
Oh...you mean, they won't be able to use SOS??? and by "tyrs" you mean titan? Is Titan the only Tyr class that's available? and the rest is just meaningless garbage? I hope you don't mean by that.
You know..I am kinda glad SOS play is going away. I've always felt that SOS damage was too unreal almost to the point it was a bug or some kind of loophole in the game system. They will just have to learn to start playing Normal like the other DDs.
Wynns will get no bonuses from retri, so they will have to revert back to bows.
Tyrrs can take frenzied tauti and still enjoy SoS, although during SoS downtime slasher/fists will be a much better option*.
* Frenzied Tauti is like +9/+10 blessed R99 p. atk. wise and cannot have +15% damage from bloody, while +12 Bloody R99 is better and cheaper, with +16+ being significantly better.
I was under the impression that the classification of retributors from 2h blunts to cane has actually not changed how SoS works (http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2051&start=60#p36798) at all on those weapons, and instead the nerf was based purely on speculation?
I think the bigger worry is whether or not this nerfs the Wynn weapon passive, or if they will get cane specialization as well.
I was under the impression that the classification of retributors from 2h blunts to cane has actually not changed how SoS works (http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2051&start=60#p36798) at all on those weapons, and instead the nerf was based purely on speculation?
I think the bigger worry is whether or not this nerfs the Wynn weapon passive, or if they will get cane specialization as well.
Yes and no. If you look at those numbers you'll see that a retri (cane) was doing roughly the same damage as a 1h Blunt. There was no clear reason was to why this was (CC trigger was posited as a reason). The "possible" nerf, as others have said, seems to be that Titan 2h Weapon Masteries / Buffs no longer work with Retri.
When comparing Yul, Othell and Feoh I think it's kinda balanced.
For Single Target, Othell >> Yul >> Feoh
For AOE, Feoh >> Yul >> Othell(almost no AOE)
but I think Yul archer's damage needs to be boosted bit more.
I think Yul archers should be allowed to have the same benefit from normal critical damage stacks like Othell. Right now, Boss Jewels like AQ or Baium does almost nothing for Yul's skill damage and I think it's very unfair. The only boss jewels that are actually useful for Yul archer class are just Blessed Valakas + Tauti ring for like 5% + 5% = 10% skill damage increase only...
Even with this increase, the game balance should be ok, I think.
With the Grand Crusade, Yul archers got 101 skill nerfed(for GS 45% Skill power ---> 15%) and ultimate evasion(90% skill evasion ---> 50%, magic immune --> 100% magic defense) so I don't think it should disrupt the PvP or PvE balance anyways.
Othell class has a faster skill rotation(especially WR, can spam skills after 101 LOL) and got so many skill evasion skills + stuns + knock back + target cancel + hide; So othell will still have the upper hand in PvP and PvE single target.
Also against a feoh...that embodied armor toggle skill...LOL absorbs 95% damage...LOL I don't think this increase of Yul is gonna hurt feoh class either.
My god...So many Yul archers quitting or rerolling....
Dude do u even play othel or yull, or are u just saying things that u dont know about?
Daggers benefit from critical damage increase but they also suffer from critical damage decrease buffs/skills/items.
"dagger have more skill rotation" ROFL. Are u insane? from all damage skills of dagger only 1 can reset cd. I've seen archer skills reset for more than 5 times in a roll, thats 1 skill. A proper archer never run out of dmg skills. They just need to smash their heads at the key boards and skills will blow out.
U want more defense? go for tank, archer rely on evasion and untargetable skills.
if u want to win a dagger in pvp, just build full stun and thats 90% of the solution.
I got 2 friends (yull) who can SOLO k99/embryo with DARK bow and level 101/102. I dont see problem with pve...
Feohs are indeed OP 95% dmg decrease and reflect...
But if there is any class that needs a boost in pvp, try Tyrr warrior or Wynn summoner.
To my opinion, the game don't need to increase again damages. They need to decrease ALL PvP damages.
When you see that a player with 150k hp (actually HP cap without dragon weapon), full PvP set / items for PvP damage reduction, taking between 180k to 350k damages in one hit .. It's a non sence. With the next tank update that will destroy the actual PvP meta with 2 tanks that could chain UD's will be over. This mean one PvP will be 1/2 min long. And over.
If you wanna put back the PvP in front of this game, reduce all PvP damages from all classes. To increase the average PvP time. If everything is done in 1 minute, where is the fun ?
Good Night (Using google translate)
I agree and I sign below, the damage is very high, and the low-damage class like Sigel Knight, for example, suffer because of it. While Sigel Knigh defeated the enemies in the mirror, however NCsoft created so many items and more items over to create protection against reflections that today the tank can not be considered more tank, in the next update they will lose the UDs, they will only gain skills that fix the damage received in 1,000. In fact all upgrades from NCsoft aim at increasing more and more damage from all DDs and this no DD can deny. Feoh today with his skills that is active, decreases damage received in 95% and 5% that burns his MP, made the Feoh stronger, because in the past this was a skill that had reuse and had time.
In the background, NCsoft can not balance class, it creates spectacular skills for some, meaningless skills for others. I can give an example, the skill of Sigel Knight that of the silence of 4 seconds has in the description the following: Decreases by 20% P. Atk / M. Atk and the 4 second silence for magic skills, and I ask, why say that it decreases by 20% of M.Atack, being that the mage will be of silence, in the next update, it will instead of decreasing 20% of P.atack / M.atack, will decrease 20% of atack speed / Casting Speed, but will silence, ie, NCsoft is somewhat lost even in the description of skills.
Sometimes I wonder, when NCsoft resolves to modify skills, create skills, create items, does it test all of that with all classes? And if you test with every class, does it test with full buff or no buff? Where does she test? For this is what I ask myself today, what criteria does NCsoft use to determine reuse of skills, skill casting. So I come back to hit the keystroke, why a UD of a Sigel Knight has reuse of 15 minutes, but a skill like Berserker of a Tyrr has reuse of 10 minutes, being that taking the UD that returns 100% of damages, the other one UD can not handle a Tyrr using Berserker, what criteria do they use to determine reuse, casting, and power?
Another question, why does Ncsoft only create items that value DD damage? If a Sigel uses such items, their damage will not increase in the same proportion, other than a DDs, where their passive skills, for example, of many% to increase damage, allied to the strong items that NCsoft creates , giving absurd advantages to the DDs, whatever it is, so I'm not hopeful if the Sigel Knight in the next update will look good, I'm in doubt, because new skills were created, removing some skills and from what I saw, they changed passive skills and the bonuses they give, I am believing that this will weaken even more. I believe that a Sigel does not want to be powerful, does not want to kill and / or give high damages, but wants to endure for a long time damages, for that is to be Sigel Knig......
The guy complaining about Archer, but Archer is a class that has a huge advantage, his skills rests very easily, I have Archer subclass and in these quest I do, I've seen my pinpoint reset 6 times in a row and it looks like it has no set or the skills are enchanted, since it is only subclass, so I do not invest so much. Man, it's rare for my Sigel Eva's Templar skill to reset, and let's face it, this Archer's Pinpoint skill is very appealing, as Halfkill comes out easily.
Another, NCsoft is slow in updating and balancing class, it takes months, 6 months or more to bring this update and as I mentioned, we do not know what criteria it uses to balance the class, it should either extinguish many used items, or, To limit the use of these items, for example, the stones that they use in the brooches, like topaz and everything else, such items should consume a lot of mana, but a lot of mana, or have high reuse, since it is an item that ignores M.Defesa / P .Defence, it will give high damage and ready, no matter if you have P.defesa / M.Defesa high or not, it should be an item that could not be used for example in the Olympics and only be used outside of it, in PVP, Siege , Dimensional. NCsoft is spoiling the game by creating too many items, too much.
So the damage is getting more and more absurd, and the defenses are falling behind. This is the truth, so the PVPs last little, so Siege lasts a little, so fights in the Olympics lasts a little. And another thing, in the part of Hibilit Point, we can choose Knight, Warrior and Wizard skills, honestly, I find it interesting This is not a good idea, but the DDs benefit by using some of the skills available on Knight's part. I say this because Critical Rate skills, Critical Demage, do not favor Sigel, for Sigel damage are weak because of their passive skills, their P.Atack skills, their characteristics, meanwhile, the DDs become a bit more resistant, whatever it is, and because they give a high demage, they can stay alive longer and thereby benefit from it.
So archer can not complain about low damage, because I do not see it. Sigel Knight yes, this one is weak, stun that seems to sleep, because rarely the stun catches and when it catches, it starts to beat, different from the stun of other DDs.
Note: The NCsoft issue is the time it takes to upgrade a class, or test the class and release update, NCsoft should mirror in Blizzard, a friend of mine plays the official WOW, and when they released a new class there, was very powerful, but within a few months, this class was balanced. And the exaggeration of item created to increase the damage of the DDs is too great the amount, it should decrease more the amount of these items, to review the route of the damages versus route of defense, be it magic or physical defense, so who knows, the fights take longer .
Daggers suffer from critical damage decrease buffs/skills/items.
So does Yul.
I've seen archer skills reset for more than 5 times in a roll, thats 1 skill. A proper archer never run out of dmg skills.
Skill reset for Yul is like Lottery. When it happens, yes Yul can spam skills but that is very short lived and it doesn't happen all the time.
U want more defense? go for tank, archer rely on evasion and untargetable skills.
I didn't say I want more defense. I just want the FAIR increase of damage with each gear upgrade, not 50% or 25% return.
if u want to win a dagger in pvp, just build full stun and thats 90% of the solution.
I don't want to win Othell. I just want more damage with my Adena spent.
I got 2 friends (yull) who can SOLO k99/embryo with DARK bow and level 101/102. I dont see problem with pve...
K95 is easy. I was doing K95 Duo with my Yul from LvL 96 in specter gears already. I want Yul doing more damage for Altar of Shilen instance and GC Lower Level.
But if there is any class that needs a boost in pvp, try Tyrr warrior or Wynn summoner.
Tyrr class is already #1 PvE class. Do they have to be #1 PvP too?
Skill reset for Yul is like Lottery. When it happens, yes Yul can spam skills but that is very short lived and it doesn't happen all the time.
I didn't say I want more defense. I just want the FAIR increase of damage with each gear upgrade, not 50% or 25% return.
I don't want to win Othell. I just want more damage with my Adena spent.
K95 is easy. I was doing K95 Duo with my Yul from LvL 96 in specter gears already. I want Yul doing more damage for Altar of Shilen instance and GC Lower Level.
Tyrr class is already #1 PvE class. Do they have to be #1 PvP too?
No, yull are only affected by p skill critical damage reduction, which is not common in game.
Its not a lottery, its almost certain.
im not saying k95, im saying kamaloca 99 and atelia fortress instance and those 2 archer together can duo altar of shillen with proper sup.
i think u dont know how to build your archer, thats the point of this post.
No, yull are only affected by p skill critical damage reduction, which is not common in game.
So you use auto attacks for your Othell and rely on p. critical damage, not skills?
Its not a lottery, its almost certain.
It's still chance based and doesn't happen all the time.
im not saying k95, im saying kamaloca 99 and atelia fortress instance and those 2 archer together can duo altar of shillen with proper sup.
i think u dont know how to build your archer, thats the point of this post.
Do you mind telling me the gear set-up for those 2 archers?
So you use auto attacks for your Othell and rely on p. critical damage, not skills?
It's still chance based and doesn't happen all the time.
Do you mind telling me the gear set-up for those 2 archers?
Othels dont use auto atacks... they benefit from both skill and normal critical increase and decrease from both as well.
+8 bloody set,+12 dark bow with 15% pskill critical dmg aug. tauti and b. valakas, insanity, seven signs, +8 shirt and the rest is just normal gear.
Othels dont use auto atacks... they benefit from both skill and normal critical increase and decrease from both as well.
+8 bloody set,+12 dark bow with 15% pskill critical dmg aug. tauti and b. valakas, insanity, seven signs, +8 shirt and the rest is just normal gear.
My Yul Archer is 103, has +12 Bloody Bow 3 SA and also +12 Dark Bow 3 SA, +9 Bloody set, insanity +++etc. So, I think I already know how much damage they can do. Anyways, you keep missing my main point in the thread.
My point is "The Fairness of Gear upgrade among DD classes."
It takes around 600B to make a good Yul now whereas it takes 200B, 1/3 of Yul, to make an equally strong Tyrr or evic. Now how fair do you think this is?
Just for fairness, I say give all Yul archers 30% PvE damage Toggle Skill and give the Tyrr warriors + summoners 30% PvP damage Toggle skill to balance things out and Tank + Iss + Healer can have 30% PvP Defense Toggle Skill.
My Yul Archer is 103, has +12 Bloody Bow 3 SA and also +12 Dark Bow 3 SA, +9 Bloody set, insanity +++etc. So, I think I already know how much damage they can do. Anyways, you keep missing my main point in the thread.
My point is "The Fairness of Gear upgrade among DD classes."
It takes around 600B to make a good Yul now whereas it takes 200B, 1/3 of Yul, to make an equally strong Tyrr or evic. Now how fair do you think this is?
Just for fairness, I say give all Yul archers 30% PvE damage Toggle Skill and give the Tyrr warriors + summoners 30% PvP damage Toggle skill to balance things out and Tank + Iss + Healer can have 30% PvP Defense Toggle Skill.
Just curious; how much gear do you think it takes to make a good PvP Tyrr? 500b, 700b, 1T? Honestly; you could have 1T+ in gear on a Tyrr and it would still do less damage in PvP than a 300b Archer. Give that 1T Tyrr a 30% PvP toggle and it still does less damage....... Situation is even worse for Wynns; their scaling is abysmal.
I'm not sure what your bug is? You picked a PvP class. If you wanted a PvE class you could have rolled something else.....
It takes around 600B to make a good Yul now whereas it takes 200B, 1/3 of Yul, to make an equally strong Tyrr or evic. Now how fair do you think this is?.
At least Yuls aren't as garbage at PvE as Seers are. Make a new thread, Seer PVE Lives Matter!
If you wanted a PvE class you could have rolled something else.....
Super Logic here. It's like...
Police A: I am so tired of my job when....
Rodah: If you are so tired of your job then you shouldn't be a Policeman.
Salesman B: Making Money is so hard...from door to door...
Rodah: If you don't like going from door to door then you shouldn't be a Salesman.
Teacher C: Gosh...I get stressed when students get loud and noisy...
Rodah: If you don't like noise then you shouldn't be a teacher.
.....it's like according to your logic, nobody can have the liberty and freedom to talk about their jobs.
Anyways, I just wish there were more diversities of leveling Zones.
We need Leveling Areas made for Archers like the good old Dragon Cave also Leveling Areas for AOE Tyrr class like Dread. So many mobs with half-kill resistance and Bow/Crossbow resistance DAFUQ!
Rodah: If you are so tired of your job then you shouldn't be a Policeman.
Salesman B: Making Money is so hard...from door to door...
Rodah: If you don't like going from door to door then you shouldn't be a Salesman.
Teacher C: Gosh...I get stressed when students get loud and noisy...
Rodah: If you don't like noise then you shouldn't be a teacher.
.....it's like according to your logic, nobody can have the liberty and freedom to talk about their jobs.
Anyways, I just wish there were more diversities of leveling Zones.
We need Leveling Areas made for Archers like the good old Dragon Cave also Leveling Areas for AOE Tyrr class like Dread. So many mobs with half-kill resistance and Bow/Crossbow resistance DAFUQ!
Terrible, terrible analogies.
Here is a better one:
Policeman: Man I wish I could put out fires instead of stop criminals....
Rodah: If you want to fight fires you should have been a fireman not a police officer....
Policeman: Man I wish I could put out fires instead of stop criminals....
Rodah: If you want to fight fires you should have been a fireman not a police officer....
Clever guy~I like that!
Still, One cannot PvP without PvE. It's cuz if your opponent is 3 Level+ higher than you, then you do only 30% damage and your opponent will do Sh-it Load of damage to you. For this reason, even for PvP class, PvE is important cuz leveling is important.
As for the Tyrr Class PvP, I think you Tyrr guys need to keep asking NC to scale the PvP damage that makes more sense, so it is comparable to that of other PvP classes. To be honest, I don't know where this concept, PvP class and PvE class comes from. I mean all classes are doing PvE and they should all be able to enjoy PvP, there shouldn't be such a barrier between classes...
Not sure if your'e agree with me or disagreeing with me. These are a lot slower kills than most pvp archers I've seen. I'm super impressed about the k99 run, however. I usually just expect seers to straight-up die in there.
Not sure if your'e agree with me or disagreeing with me. These are a lot slower kills than most pvp archers I've seen. I'm super impressed about the k99 run, however. I usually just expect seers to straight-up die in there.
Well i would definitely want more pve damage for sayha, like i guess most of the players for their classes..
However, from my experience and since i have my own sayha and have also watched others in pve, i can tell you that sayha can be a 'killing machine' with the proper equipment..
It's just that people do not have a lot of patience to equip their sayha (needs more equip to shine on PVE from other classes while its the opposite on PVP) and the fact that there is a general negative view on sayhas in NC West which is wrong imho..
Well i would definitely want more pve damage for sayha, like i guess most of the players for their classes..
However, from my experience and since i have my own sayha and have also watched others in pve, i can tell you that sayha can be a 'killing machine' with the proper equipment..
It's just that people do not have a lot of patience to equip their sayha (needs more equip to shine on PVE from other classes while its the opposite on PVP) and the fact that there is a general negative view on sayhas in NC West which is wrong imho..
NO.
We only get to skirt the issue of how broken this seer class is. Mostly because you can only really see it in the oly and CoC. Do not think these things are PvE deficient. They can solo Phantasmal, ect. They hit hard, they hit fast, they die fast sure, but only if they haven't learned how to hide and stay untargetable, btw they can do this somewhere around 100% of the time with basically whatever free gear they can find. If you don't believe me, spend a few minutes and look up who wins the CoC...always, you will notice a pattern I assure you. I have personally sat over the shoulder of someone who played a lvl 99 see with trash gear, TRASH, go into oly and handily beat heroes. This person just started playing L2, there was no skill required, or spending $10,000 on it. Just enter oly, hit target, hide for 5. GREAT GAME NCSOFT SOO GLAD YOU PUT THOUGHT INTO THAT!
Skill reset for Yul is like Lottery. When it happens, yes Yul can spam skills but that is very short lived and it doesn't happen all the time.
I didn't say I want more defense. I just want the FAIR increase of damage with each gear upgrade, not 50% or 25% return.
...
Tyrr class is already #1 PvE class. Do they have to be #1 PvP too?
who uses a yul for PvE anyway?
I do not think it makes for very good balance, but I do think there are good reasons they set up some classes as obviously better at PvP and some better at PvE. For one thing It prevents one class from being best at all things. For another there are far more DD classes than support, this provides an outlet to use different types of DDs for different situations. Ofc the Archer and Feoh are far better at PvP than at PvE, while the opposite is true for Tyrs, Wyns and Evis (I know Wyns, I'm sorry, you are with the dwarfs now in irrelevance land).
I do not think that the Yuls need a dmg boost. While their dmg in PVE is lower than maybe it could be, this has to be the case, as their dmg potential in PvP becomes parabolic at a certain point. This has nothing to do with the class being broken, but with the irresponsible L2 store exclusive gear being available to the highest bidder (the guy that just 1 shot you is the guy who spent the most on his toon).
Also, yeah, the archer skills reset almost constantly on my Yul.
Good Night (Using google translate)
Tank dude, I also feel that the tanks are at a good balance right now. However you have to keep a few things in perspective.
1. As you said the 3 level gap penalty is real and huge. This is something I feel should have far less impact. It makes it to where you don't stand a chance if you aren't within level range of your target. A tank isn't a good tank if his level negates all his defenses.
2. Dark gear. If you don't have dark gear, you cannot compete in PvP very well. Just another piece of gear that outshines your skills, just look at the numbers. You pick up somewhere around 40% defenses going form 8 to 10 Dark.
3. The $10k club. If you aren't in it, and just got dropped by some loser POS like starco or some other member of the 10k club, you just gotta know that they are playing a different game than you, it just happens to be on the same server.
4. Tanks as they are right now are broken. Its super lame at a siege to fight a group that has blocked dmg for several minutes, then they PR, and wont come back until all of the UDs and CS are reset. Party meta isn't supposed to be 2 DDs with $10-50k in gear and 5 supports. You have to understand why these UDs must be scaled back. Its to promote competition (the exact opposite of what the L2 store does ironically).
However;
Tanks are NEEDED by most people for exp groups that farm the best exp.
Tanks are NEEDED for PVP.
Tanks are NEEDED for the best party set up in almost all situations.
We just don't need 2 at the same time.
Tanks are NEEDED by most people for exp groups that farm the best exp.
Tanks are NEEDED for PVP.
Tanks are NEEDED for the best party set up in almost all situations.
We just don't need 2 at the same time.
yes I do, love SK for the patt aura so I can do more dps on my soon to be nerfed HK!!
most fun AF instance run I ever did was with 3 iss 3 tanks and 1 healer and we still did it in like 8min lolz
PvP: Othell >> Feoh >> Yul
With proper setup, Only Othell can break the Embodied armored Feoh with 3-4 skills whereas Yul cannot. (I've tested with 103 Yul with +12 DarkBow with full Boss Jewel set)
All I am asking for is the Fair Increase of damage for Yul with each gear upgrade.
We only get to skirt the issue of how broken this seer class is. Mostly because you can only really see it in the oly and CoC. Do not think these things are PvE deficient. They can solo Phantasmal, ect. They hit hard, they hit fast, they die fast sure, but only if they haven't learned how to hide and stay untargetable, btw they can do this somewhere around 100% of the time with basically whatever free gear they can find. If you don't believe me, spend a few minutes and look up who wins the CoC...always, you will notice a pattern I assure you. I have personally sat over the shoulder of someone who played a lvl 99 see with trash gear, TRASH, go into oly and handily beat heroes. This person just started playing L2, there was no skill required, or spending $10,000 on it. Just enter oly, hit target, hide for 5. GREAT GAME NCSOFT SOO GLAD YOU PUT THOUGHT INTO THAT!
I replied to a guy saying that sayha is garbage in pve and you are now telling me that sayha is a broken class..
Well it's obvious that opinions about sayha are somehow contradicting..
In any case, my personal experience from CoC and Oly are much different than yours..
CoC in Naia server is not in any case monopolized by sayhas.. In fact i've seen all other classes winning but no sayha, except me in some very rare cases..
About Oly, i know that hide is an advantage for sayha but believe me there can be only very few heroes (or players at that level) that do not have the skills to counterattack hidden sayhas..
I've played oly quite a lot to tell you that a 99lvl sayha with trash equip cannot win a 105lvl well equipped hero.. This simply cannot happen except in some very very rare cases.. Otherwise, we would have sayhas monopolizing oly something which is simply not true, at least on my server..
I replied to a guy saying that sayha is garbage in pve and you are now telling me that sayha is a broken class..
Well it's obvious that opinions about sayha are somehow contradicting..
In any case, my personal experience from CoC and Oly are much different than yours..
CoC in Naia server is not in any case monopolized by sayhas.. In fact i've seen all other classes winning but no sayha, except me in some very rare cases..
About Oly, i know that hide is an advantage for sayha but believe me there can be only very few heroes (or players at that level) that do not have the skills to counterattack hidden sayhas..
I've played oly quite a lot to tell you that a 99lvl sayha with trash equip cannot win a 105lvl well equipped hero.. This simply cannot happen except in some very very rare cases.. Otherwise, we would have sayhas monopolizing oly something which is simply not true, at least on my server..
There are not a lot of them. It is not easy to learn how to play PvE with them. Its a magical "rouge" class and as such is squishy and relies on hide and untargetability 100%. Due to this less people play them.
In OLY, it is only who has highest dmg. There are several people who play sayha who don't know this, but you can stay 100% invisible except for the 1 sec you attack, and even then, you can stay untargetable. SO...
"I've played oly quite a lot to tell you that a 99lvl sayha with trash equip cannot win a 105lvl well equipped hero.."
Is not true.
Again, I was there, not in vent, in person, watching this noob player, with free gear, not even R99 gear, beat 3 heroes. He just attacked once, when they could not target him, and stayed in hide for 5 min. GG
PvP: Othell >> Feoh >> Yul
With proper setup, Only Othell can break the Embodied armored Feoh with 3-4 skills whereas Yul cannot. (I've tested with 103 Yul with +12 DarkBow with full Boss Jewel set)
All I am asking for is the Fair Increase of damage for Yul with each gear upgrade.
Just because an othell can beat a feoh in oly more easily than a yull could, doesn't mean its a better PvP class. In a siege you would have a feoh or archer over a dagger.
Yeah with a +12 bow, it might take more than 3-4 shots. With a better bow and better setup it wont.
I do not think it makes for very good balance, but I do think there are good reasons they set up some classes as obviously better at PvP and some better at PvE. For one thing It prevents one class from being best at all things. For another there are far more DD classes than support, this provides an outlet to use different types of DDs for different situations. Ofc the Archer and Feoh are far better at PvP than at PvE, while the opposite is true for Tyrs, Wyns and Evis (I know Wyns, I'm sorry, you are with the dwarfs now in irrelevance land).
I do not think that the Yuls need a dmg boost. While their dmg in PVE is lower than maybe it could be, this has to be the case, as their dmg potential in PvP becomes parabolic at a certain point. This has nothing to do with the class being broken, but with the irresponsible L2 store exclusive gear being available to the highest bidder (the guy that just 1 shot you is the guy who spent the most on his toon).
Also, yeah, the archer skills reset almost constantly on my Yul.
Tank dude, I also feel that the tanks are at a good balance right now. However you have to keep a few things in perspective.
1. As you said the 3 level gap penalty is real and huge. This is something I feel should have far less impact. It makes it to where you don't stand a chance if you aren't within level range of your target. A tank isn't a good tank if his level negates all his defenses.
2. Dark gear. If you don't have dark gear, you cannot compete in PvP very well. Just another piece of gear that outshines your skills, just look at the numbers. You pick up somewhere around 40% defenses going form 8 to 10 Dark.
3. The $10k club. If you aren't in it, and just got dropped by some loser POS like starco or some other member of the 10k club, you just gotta know that they are playing a different game than you, it just happens to be on the same server.
4. Tanks as they are right now are broken. Its super lame at a siege to fight a group that has blocked dmg for several minutes, then they PR, and wont come back until all of the UDs and CS are reset. Party meta isn't supposed to be 2 DDs with $10-50k in gear and 5 supports. You have to understand why these UDs must be scaled back. Its to promote competition (the exact opposite of what the L2 store does ironically).
However;
Tanks are NEEDED by most people for exp groups that farm the best exp.
Tanks are NEEDED for PVP.
Tanks are NEEDED for the best party set up in almost all situations.
We just don't need 2 at the same time.
Good Night (Google Translate)
Well, I was reading Korea's patch note, and I can tell you something, in their explanation of the tank changes, it is said that they hope to improve the tank because of several complaints. But I want to analyze one thing:
1 - The problem of Lineage 2 is the creation of many items that increase and much damage of the DDs, however items that increase and much the defense and the reduction of damages does not exist in the same proportion. And besides, the damage versus defense is strange, Guardian Frenzy from Eva's Templar to the Tank 120% of P.Defesa / M.Defesa and I already tested, when I use this ability, and fighting against a DD, such as Archer, Feoh, Othel Rogue, Tyrr, I assure you, does not seem to have increased by 120%, and that's on the same equipment level.
2 - I do not see logic in the UDs having a duration of 15 minutes, it is a defensive skill, and the two skills that will replace them in the new expansion will also last for 15 minutes and will only limit the damage to 1000, nothing more, nothing less and none will give 100% reflect, in short, they are defensive skills, this does not make the tank more dangerous because everyone knows tank damage is low.
3 - But what I most complain about in damage vs. defense is just that, Tank does not have to hit hard, but he has to be able to fight a one-on-one pvp, be able to deal with a DD, even when he uses his abilities, especially considering that most DDs attack from afar with 1100 range skills. I have Archer Sub, face is awesome as the skills of archer rests with extreme ease, so my young, archer running and attacking from afar using Pinpoint all the time, goodbye Tank. Feoh is another nonsense, high damage too.
4 - On shield defense, sorry, they increase the shield defense rate, but I also noticed, Tank defends a lot of damage and normal attacks, but defending attacks coming from skills is rare, and you see I use Eva's Templar as an example , the Sigel with the highest shield defense rate. However, normal damage, defends yes and a lot, but defending attacks coming from skill, no, defends is little. The best way to realize this is you using a Feoh that is the only class that all attacks are skills and does not use normal attack, just for being a mage, take a test and observe how many times you will defend the attacks of Feoh.
Bottom line: Tank when you're done, become a class with no ability to stay in the game, I'm talking about pvp, Olympics, COC. However, I agree that in a PVP in a group, a Siege and etc, it becomes important, because there is Healer to help. Tank has not been able to handle Healer and Iss these days at the Olympics.
There are not a lot of them. It is not easy to learn how to play PvE with them. Its a magical "rouge" class and as such is squishy and relies on hide and untargetability 100%. Due to this less people play them.
In OLY, it is only who has highest dmg. There are several people who play sayha who don't know this, but you can stay 100% invisible except for the 1 sec you attack, and even then, you can stay untargetable. SO...
"I've played oly quite a lot to tell you that a 99lvl sayha with trash equip cannot win a 105lvl well equipped hero.."
Is not true.
Again, I was there, not in vent, in person, watching this noob player, with free gear, not even R99 gear, beat 3 heroes. He just attacked once, when they could not target him, and stayed in hide for 5 min. GG
Man i once saw a dagger with trash equip killing a high level char with top equip twice...
It is true, stacked Yul archer is strong both in PvP and in PvE; but my point in this thread is the fairness of gear upgrade cost.
Consider the Boss Jewel bonus from Lindvior + any 2 x 15% Critical damage rings. Both Feoh and Othell get 40% damage boost from Lindvior + 2 x Crit Rings combo, whereas Yul gets Zero. (Please notice, this 40% boost for Feoh and Othell applies both for PvP and PvE.)
Now to match this missing 40% damage loss, Yul archer needs to get +15 PvE cloak with 2 x Skill Critical damage Augmentation which costs 200B Minimum! and this is just for PvE damage...so, in order to match the PvP damage also, Yul archer needs to get another +15 PvP Cloak...another 200B+???
Oh...yeah...Stacked Yul is strong but at the cost of 400B+ EXTRA just so that we can match what others have already?
Archer DPS is fine. You just need to stack your toon differently, which is a good thing so everyone isnt wanting all the same exact gear at the same priority level. Its also worth noting, because Yul's don't rely on crit damage, they also don't rely on crit wound. Dagger dps is much more dependent on being able to debuff your opponent, this is yet another reason yul is superior when you start talking about 7 v 7 or more.