If you ever come across a method of obtaining currency that feels exceptionally rewarding for the effort required, please don’t hesitate to submit a bug report in-game.
NCWest does not like us to have fun.
This quote is a very eye-opening look inside the culture of NCWest and just exactly what their attitude towards their customer is. This quote casts anything considered exceptionally rewarding into a negative light, and that finding any sort of fulfilling activity in this game must therefore be an exploit or bug and should be reported.
This message comes to us from NCWest’s COMMUNITY MANAGER. A person who is paid to deliver satisfactory customer-relations messages. This is the official NCWest language. THEY DO NOT WISH US TO HAVE FUN. This type of language is borderline abusive, is unbecoming of NCWest, and is an insult to their customers.
We are the people who help keep this company afloat. Major in-game economy changes like this need to be announced well in advance so people can make an informed decision to pull out of the market rather than have the rug pulled out from under them.
How about that August player appreciation pack. Remember when our abusers took a couple weeks to provide us with some food and water in the form of temporary r95 gear and buff scrolls? We fell in love with them again, only to have the fist of reality come crashing back down upon us. This company cares very little for our enjoyment. They only care about our wallets.
-edits below here-
I just did some digging around - check out the official exchange rate on Korea (http://lineage2.power.plaync.com/wiki/%EB%82%9A%EC%8B%9C) (google translatable). A little over half-way down. This chart lists 3 elcyum powder in exchange for 4 powerful fish. The exchange rates we had were correct. We are being lied to. With all the months and months of internal testing you'd think that they could get a game mechanic ironed out properly. Helios came out over a year ago and the fishing system has been in place working the way the Koreans intended. My only conclusion I can make is that NCWest suffers from gross incompetence and/or have screwed up the in-game economy so badly that they will spend the following months making poorly thought out knee-jerk patch reactions.
My personal favorite was just before GoD and F2P was announced, NC did an event where if you paid for six months account services in advance, you were given an extra birthday buff or two.
I did that for seven accounts, as did many other people, and how were we rewarded? With our birthday buffs, and free to play a month later. Don't worry, we were given NCcoins instead of refunds. That's called a bait and switch and is extremely illegal.
Another great quote about the thought-process of NCWest came from Neutorn (http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3567455&postcount=83) a couple weeks back, where he thumbed his nose at us and told us tough s*** over the lack of transparency on the gambling systems in this game. Mainly, how RNG rates work.In regards to RNG system transparency, this is better argument to make to your local government representative. Basically if law requires rates to be provided, companies will be obligated to do so.
NCWest is going to continue to operate like this until forced to do the right thing by the government in which they operate, or by a civil lawsuit. But I bet you my dollar that NCWest has already done a risk-assessment on any sort of civil lawsuit coming to fruition and has (correctly, I think) come to the conclusion that the community is too fragmented, too low in population, and too unorganized to take this company to court over illegal business practices.
This company is very unethical with their business model.
Another great quote about the thought-process of NCWest came from Neutorn (http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3567455&postcount=83) a couple weeks back, where he thumbed his nose at us and told us tough s*** over the lack of transparency on the gambling systems in this game. Mainly, how RNG rates work.
NCWest is going to continue to operate like this until forced to do the right thing by the government in which they operate, or by a civil lawsuit. But I bet you my dollar that NCWest has already done a risk-assessment on any sort of civil lawsuit coming to fruition and has (correctly, I think) come to the conclusion that the community is too fragmented, too low in population, and too unorganized to take this company to court over illegal business practices.
This company is very unethical with their business model.
I made this suggestion because there is currently no regulation involving these kinds of systems. Since I play games from other companies also like EA, Valve and Blizzard, they also do not disclose RNG rates in their games. I personally have no objection with RNG information being public and I always believe more information is better for consumers, but as far as I can tell from looking at things from inside of the gaming industry, this kind of change simply will not occur altruistically.
I love how everyone is so angry about this change, and yet none of them will actually stop playing. NCsoft/NCWest know the vast majority of players aren't going anywhere.
Keep logging in guys! It will get better eventually.
Yet, like a battered housewife, thousands of us continue to crawl back to this game. I get that you don't understand the intricacies of abuse, yet are chomping at the bit to drop some profound higher knowledge such as "Nobody owes you anything", but really, is that the stance you want to take? You'd rather roll over and let NCWest continue down this path? You don't love the game like I and many others do?
I made this suggestion because there is currently no regulation involving these kinds of systems. Since I play games from other companies also like EA, Valve and Blizzard, they also do not disclose RNG rates in their games. I personally have no objection with RNG information being public and I always believe more information is better for consumers, but as far as I can tell from looking at things from inside of the gaming industry, this kind of change simply will not occur altruistically.
But unlike us, you are not just some random player of this game.
You have the capability of actually talking, and more, being listened to, by someone in Korea to release this kind of information.
They obviously have it, because it's part of creating the event itself. They don't fire this into some black box probability generator and then copy/paste the results into the code sight unseen.
They code these with very specific changes, weighted heavily towards the low end rewards.
I doubt anyone would really care if you didn't post the odds down to the 10th decimal point... but at least a general indication. Like these are the ~10% chance rewards, these are the ~1% chance rewards, and these are the sub 1% chance rewards, etc.
Point is, you are in a position to actually make a legitimate effort to do something, the rest of us are not.
I made this suggestion because there is currently no regulation involving these kinds of systems. Since I play games from other companies also like EA, Valve and Blizzard, they also do not disclose RNG rates in their games. I personally have no objection with RNG information being public and I always believe more information is better for consumers, but as far as I can tell from looking at things from inside of the gaming industry, this kind of change simply will not occur altruistically.This would be a fair point to make if NCWest had a business model that was more in-line with what WoW or Valve offers consumers. Your company has a currency system, NCoin, which has set denominations: 400, 800, 1600, 4000, 8000 - or $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 respectively. Most gaming companies have price-points around what ncoin has, but the benefit you get from what they have to offer is significantly higher for a much lower price.
Hearthstone, for example, has been extremely criticized over the cost of entry for a new player, yet the total amount needed to fill out a complete standard set and compete with everybody else is only about $1,000.
But on top of that, Blizzard is very transparent about what they do to help customers with their woes of chasing legendary cards. Blizzard implements a pity-timer while opening Hearthstone packs that guarantees you a legendary card by your 40th pack. Because that company makes an effort to help customers who spend lots of money by ensuring they receive some sort of item for what they spend, they don't need to release true RNG values. Their customers are happy.
In contrast to NCWest, there is no transparency. There are no pity-timers. I know plenty of people who have spent over $400 chasing these cloaks only to end up with +2 and +3 cloaks, no augments, nothing. Just $400 gone. Does that sound fair to you?
I consider myself one of the lucky ones. And I spent $900 getting a +15 cloak with 2x 7.5% crit damage augments. That's one item. $900. That's NINE purchases of NCWest's highest denomination currency. For a single item in game, and it's not even +20. What other gaming company charges that much for a single item?
The people you hurt today aren't the people like me. We have money and will continue to spend at every NCoin event. The people you did hurt are the majority who love this game but find themselves unable to compete with the big spenders. They've found a way to save up what little in-game currency they have just so they might have a shot at the table-scraps from every ncoin event, and now even that has been ripped away from them.
If you set your price points to be more reasonable - and I'm talking a 90% cut in prices of in-game items, you will include almost everybody in NStore events. If there's only 1 out of 100 people who can afford to pay $900 for a +15 cloak, you can be sure there would be another 99 that could try for that same cloak if their point of entry was only $90.
But that's a conversation for another thread. Neutron, I appreciate you coming up to the plate and hitting the balls I throw, but a significant number of people are unhappy.
This quote is a very eye-opening look inside the culture of NCWest and just exactly what their attitude towards their customer is. This quote casts anything considered exceptionally rewarding into a negative light, and that finding any sort of fulfilling activity in this game must therefore be an exploit or bug and should be reported.
This message comes to us from NCWest’s COMMUNITY MANAGER. A person who is paid to deliver satisfactory customer-relations messages. This is the official NCWest language. THEY DO NOT WISH US TO HAVE FUN. This type of language is borderline abusive, is unbecoming of NCWest, and is an insult to their customers.
We are the people who help keep this company afloat. Major in-game economy changes like this need to be announced well in advance so people can make an informed decision to pull out of the market rather than have the rug pulled out from under them.
How about that August player appreciation pack. Remember when our abusers took a couple weeks to provide us with some food and water in the form of temporary r95 gear and buff scrolls? We fell in love with them again, only to have the fist of reality come crashing back down upon us. This company cares very little for our enjoyment. They only care about our wallets.
-edits below here-
I just did some digging around - check out the official exchange rate on Korea (http://lineage2.power.plaync.com/wiki/%EB%82%9A%EC%8B%9C) (google translatable). A little over half-way down. This chart lists 3 elcyum powder in exchange for 4 powerful fish. The exchange rates we had were correct. We are being lied to. With all the months and months of internal testing you'd think that they could get a game mechanic ironed out properly. Helios came out over a year ago and the fishing system has been in place working the way the Koreans intended. My only conclusion I can make is that NCWest suffers from gross incompetence and/or have screwed up the in-game economy so badly that they will spend the following months making poorly thought out knee-jerk patch reactions.
++++ many good points made !
so dear Neutron, u care to let us know what is so exceptionally rewarding with fishing?? or u will ignore your community again and again and again .........??
u know causing permament hate and frustration amoung your customers is not the best business model on long terms.
long time ago we got told drops will only get nerf cuz of bots, and will be increased again. now long time later u dont care to remember. so now there is not a single mob ingame u can kill without loosing adena, same applies for fishing since today. GJ u got what it takes to piss ppl off.
I consider myself one of the lucky ones. And I spent $900 getting a +15 cloak with 2x 7.5% crit damage augments. That's one item. $900. That's NINE purchases of NCWest's highest denomination currency. For a single item in game, and it's not even +20. What other gaming company charges that much for a single item?
$900 for a +15 cloak with 2x 7.5% crit damage augments! There's a sucker born every day. Enjoy that worthless cloak!... lmao
so dear Neutron, u care to let us know what is so exceptionally rewarding with fishing?? or u will ignore your community again and again and again .........??
u know causing permament hate and frustration amoung your customers is not the best business model on long terms.
long time ago we got told drops will only get nerf cuz of bots, and will be increased again. now long time later u dont care to remember. so now there is not a single mob ingame u can kill without loosing adena, same applies for fishing since today. GJ u got what it takes to piss ppl off.
I understand these changes are frustrating, especially when there are no good alternatives, but as i've mentioned before we just localize the game as is, the actual design and adjustments to the game economy come from the Development Team. In this case removing this loophole was necessary to fix a runaway Adena inflation issue. There was no restriction to the amount of Adena being created by this bug and I agree with it being fixed in this case. However, it highlights the lack of other good ways to earn Adena, so we hope the Development Team will take notice to this issue as we forward this kind of feedback we receive after this change.
$900 for a +15 cloak with 2x 7.5% crit damage augments! There's a sucker born every day. Enjoy that worthless cloak!... lmaoSharlanna, I know we've got bitter history, but there's no reason to be such an old crone about it ;)
I understand these changes are frustrating, especially when there are no good alternatives, but as i've mentioned before we just localize the game as is, the actual design and adjustments to the game economy come from the Development Team. In this case removing this loophole was necessary to fix a runaway Adena inflation issue. There was no restriction to the amount of Adena being created by this bug and I agree with it being fixed in this case. However, it highlights the lack of other good ways to earn Adena, so we hope the Development Team will take notice to this issue as we forward this kind of feedback we receive after this change.
~Thanks
Okay, so my suggestion is implementing an adena token system into the auction house, much like what blizzard did with world of warcraft tokens. You have adena tokens which can be purchased with NCoin and then placed on the auction house at a rate set by NCWest and controlled by market supply/demand. The person with adena, but who wants some ncoin, will buy the Ncoin token off the auction house for adena, and receive an Ncoin balance.
Example: Adena token for 800 Ncoin. Can be sold on auction house for 800million adena (user doesn't dicitate price, NCWest and the market does). Item stays on auction house until it is sold, but will award the amount of adena the token was initially listed for. Person selling receives adena when the token sells.
The person buying the token buys it for that current days' listed price, regardless of what it was initially sold for. They receive their NCoin balance immediately.
This does several things; It helps alleviate scamming where someone is looking to trade ncoin for adena in game, but after gifting someone the ncoin, person trading the adena backs out of the trade and "scams" the gifter.
This curbs the need for a RMT adena black marketplace, and continues a cashflow into NCWest's pockets. Buy requiring people to pay into NCoin and sell a token before receiving adena, a forced transaction is made and keeps the currency in game flowing and not leeching to the black market adena suppliers. Ncoin items are still generated in game, and people are still able to pay for them.
In this case removing this loophole was necessary to fix a runaway Adena inflation issue.
I think you are not playing the same game as we are.
There are certainly issues with a few people abusing the game and making lots of adena.
But this is not a case of a flaw for everyone. You can't just take away absolutely everything that is profitable in any way to combat "abuse", because then you are leaving the average players with quite literally nothing left.
I challenge you to go to the developers and have them make a level 1 character here and get to level 99+ with:
1) Only a prestige pack.
2) No help from any support whatsoever.
And I'd like to see how the feel the experience is here for any player who is not:
1) A long time player with a lot of resources already.
2) Spending a good amount of money on the NCstore.
Unless they are incredibly dishonest there is no way they are going to find getting gear, let alone any kind of competitive gear, enjoyable (if even possible) in any way.
I think you are not playing the same game as we are.
There are certainly issues with a few people abusing the game and making lots of adena.
But this is not a case of a flaw for everyone. You can't just take away absolutely everything that is profitable in any way to combat "abuse", because then you are leaving the average players with quite literally nothing left.
I challenge you to go to the developers and have them make a level 1 character here and get to level 99+ with:
1) Only a prestige pack.
2) No help from any support whatsoever.
And I'd like to see how the feel the experience is here for any player who is not:
1) A long time player with a lot of resources already.
2) Spending a good amount of money on the NCstore.
Unless they are incredibly dishonest there is no way they are going to find getting gear, let alone any kind of competitive gear, enjoyable (if even possible) in any way.
this.. amazing move and hilarious way it's defense is phrased only ensures the further alienation of NCWest player base that doesn't spent hundreds per Month lmao..
really not a good move, better was to provide a real alternative first and then implement the changes - but who I'm fooling here as everyone knows customer retention was never a priority for NC
thanks again for driving away many of my friends that cant afford to spend as much as I do on playing this 13+year old game
Since I play games from other companies also like EA, Valve and Blizzard, they also do not disclose RNG rates in their games.
I already found out that the RNG has a fail safe system long time ago. Sofar the Fishing Events were the best examples of showing us why. Let's say while fishing you have 100 succes in a row the next 20 will fail in a row to make shure you will stick around the 20% fail ratio of the Events Fishing Algorithm. This is why Players kept wondering why there are moments that you really fail alot in a row like 5 per time. That's why all Players will be kept within 18-22% fail ratio per Algorithm. Do the math yourself. 80% succes and 20% fail, what are the chances to get 5 fails or more in a row over and over. It literally happened to all of us non-stop on multiple characters every couple of hours.
It was the same with certain Events that can be rigged with an Algorithm. Top Rewards are only given to the Players who opens every 10.000th Box from the Event, while NCsoft said the chance was only 0,01%. Algorithms are totally different then a Chance System. It's a Control System, not a Chance System.
Thanks for the Internet and some Russian dudes who provided this Info long time ago from their Private hacked GOD Server.
Ya, this might be the end for me, I'm disgusted, 100 mill to change revalation skills and you take away fishing profits? Where is this money supposed to come from, gambling on nstore? I made a nice cloak and I can't sell the **** thing because 39 scrolls failed trying to make it legendary!! What other game out there can ya spend so much money on and get NOTHING in return?
In this case removing this loophole was necessary to fix a runaway Adena inflation issue. There was no restriction to the amount of Adena being created by this bug and I agree with it being fixed in this case.
If this is really a bug why this is just fixed here at NC West, but nowhere else?
Korea cares more about NC West player base instead of their own or any other like Japan or Russia?
And like someone already wrote, if you want to make fishing not profitable anymore why not first find and implement another way for player to earn at least some adena before to destroy fishing totally?
And do you really, I mean really think that someone who can make 20-30 or 40M adena per day with fishing is abusing the system and is making an inflation issue?
Log your toon in Chronos, go check the market in Giran and items in AH.
Check the prices of +8-10 sets, +12 bloody and dark weapons, etc.
I am sure you know these prices, but just once again, look at them.
Then get your calculator and try to calc how many years a fisher needs with using of this..."bug" to be able to afford a good armor set or/and a weapon.
If there are no reasonable ways of making adena from the game, just as someone already suggested, delete all the adena from game and put every item in game in your L2 Store to be bought with NC Coins.
Or create at least one certain way of earning adena for the normal players, not the heavy NC Coin spenders.
There is no middle route there, it is just the one or the other. What we are facing at this very moment is that imaginary middle route which must not exist at all - a game where players can not earn game currency with no chance to progress in game after a certain level, like 99 let's say.
Will you play a game like this, Neutron? If yes, why? If no, think about something and do it as fast as possible...
I made this suggestion because there is currently no regulation involving these kinds of systems. Since I play games from other companies also like EA, Valve and Blizzard, they also do not disclose RNG rates in their games. I personally have no objection with RNG information being public and I always believe more information is better for consumers, but as far as I can tell from looking at things from inside of the gaming industry, this kind of change simply will not occur altruistically.
valve is forced to disclose rng rates dont you know? how out of touch can you be
I love how everyone is so angry about this change, and yet none of them will actually stop playing. NCsoft/NCWest know the vast majority of players aren't going anywhere.
Keep logging in guys! It will get better eventually.
This would be a fair point to make if NCWest had a business model that was more in-line with what WoW or Valve offers consumers. Your company has a currency system, NCoin, which has set denominations: 400, 800, 1600, 4000, 8000 - or $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 respectively. Most gaming companies have price-points around what ncoin has, but the benefit you get from what they have to offer is significantly higher for a much lower price.
Hearthstone, for example, has been extremely criticized over the cost of entry for a new player, yet the total amount needed to fill out a complete standard set and compete with everybody else is only about $1,000.
But on top of that, Blizzard is very transparent about what they do to help customers with their woes of chasing legendary cards. Blizzard implements a pity-timer while opening Hearthstone packs that guarantees you a legendary card by your 40th pack. Because that company makes an effort to help customers who spend lots of money by ensuring they receive some sort of item for what they spend, they don't need to release true RNG values. Their customers are happy.
In contrast to NCWest, there is no transparency. There are no pity-timers. I know plenty of people who have spent over $400 chasing these cloaks only to end up with +2 and +3 cloaks, no augments, nothing. Just $400 gone. Does that sound fair to you?
I consider myself one of the lucky ones. And I spent $900 getting a +15 cloak with 2x 7.5% crit damage augments. That's one item. $900. That's NINE purchases of NCWest's highest denomination currency. For a single item in game, and it's not even +20. What other gaming company charges that much for a single item?
The people you hurt today aren't the people like me. We have money and will continue to spend at every NCoin event. The people you did hurt are the majority who love this game but find themselves unable to compete with the big spenders. They've found a way to save up what little in-game currency they have just so they might have a shot at the table-scraps from every ncoin event, and now even that has been ripped away from them.
If you set your price points to be more reasonable - and I'm talking a 90% cut in prices of in-game items, you will include almost everybody in NStore events. If there's only 1 out of 100 people who can afford to pay $900 for a +15 cloak, you can be sure there would be another 99 that could try for that same cloak if their point of entry was only $90.
But that's a conversation for another thread. Neutron, I appreciate you coming up to the plate and hitting the balls I throw, but a significant number of people are unhappy.
Mate sorry your stats are wrong...
I wonder in which part of the world 1 out of 100 people can spend 900$ per month just to get an item in a game..
I guess not even in saudi arabia with the millions of petrodollars..
And sorry again but for me people who are paying so much for an online game are the ones who finally destroy it..
Prices are always dependable on demand.. When you keep consuming, prices will never go down - they will go up and up, until only you and ppl like you will be in the game..
Bragging here for the 900$ you've spent while asking for a decrease in prices is an outrage in any case..
Mate sorry your stats are wrong...
I wonder in which part of the world 1 out of 100 people can spend 900$ per month just to get an item in a game..
I guess not even in saudi arabia with the millions of petrodollars..
And sorry again but for me people who are paying so much for an online game are the ones who finally destroy it..
Prices are always dependable on demand.. When you keep consuming, prices will never go down - they will go up and up, until only you and ppl like you will be in the game..
Bragging here for the 900$ you've spent while asking for a decrease in prices is an outrage in any case..Yeah, people like you are quick to blame the people who spend the money and not the companies who initiate the ridiculous pricepoints. Really? The customer is the one that destroys the game? Are you that delusional? You can not honestly think that the person spending real money on digital currency is the reason why fishing was nerfed into the floor, do you?
The problem comes from the fact that the point of entry is so expensively high that only people with billions can get into the game and play. If items were more accessible, you'd see cloak prices being traded around 9b instead of 90b. When more people can play the game, the more supply the market has and the prices will come down. Everybody wins.
This game is about the community which is primarily made up of people who don't spend money on ncoin. If those people's sole income is destroyed what reason do they have to log into the game? That's when the game dies. That's what I'm ****** off about here. The ncoin situation has driven a huge gap between the spenders and free-to-players and NCWest has effectively handed the f2p the rope to hang themselves. Is that really fair? Quit deflecting from the real problem. It's NCWest's gross incompetence.
I understand these changes are frustrating, especially when there are no good alternatives, but as i've mentioned before we just localize the game as is, the actual design and adjustments to the game economy come from the Development Team. In this case removing this loophole was necessary to fix a runaway Adena inflation issue. There was no restriction to the amount of Adena being created by this bug and I agree with it being fixed in this case. However, it highlights the lack of other good ways to earn Adena, so we hope the Development Team will take notice to this issue as we forward this kind of feedback we receive after this change.
~Thanks
While you may feel justified in applying this "fix" your timing and order of implementation are off. As you stated, one effect of this is highlighting the lack of other good ways to earn Adena. That is the main issue at hand. By patching a "loophole", you've absolutely emphasized this glaring problem to the point that will now push most casual, non-spenders out of the game.
Since you're aware of the problem, which continuously gets worse, your course of action is to push it over the top? Instead, it would've been much wiser to come up with a solution that allows players to gain Adena at a reasonable rate through in-game mechanisms, and then make this adjustment to fix your other problem.
Now that you've done this backwards, there will be far too few people left to care about any pending changes that might come in to play months (years?) later. There's no incentive for the casual player to continue playing because they have no means to advance in this game.
I, unfortunately was in possession of 1000's of Powerful Fish from my time fishing. I invested almost all my Adena into doing this, knowing it's the only way I'll have a chance at saving up for gear that will allow me to participate in parties/instances beyond 100. But, because of your little notice on this "adjustment", I could not turn my fish in at the original rate. Your GM support refused to assist me with my request and now I am nearly broke in this game.
It is in part my fault for holding onto an item for so long before turning it back into Adena. But, because of this poor decision and timing on your part, I am left with no reason to continue playing. The months it took me to fish what I have, what I was saving to hopefully purchase some better gear to advance in the game, are now swiftly taken from me. You look at it as a fix to Adena inflation, I look at it as significant time lost.
I realize losing a few casual players will be inconsequential to almost anyone reading this, but once the non-spenders are gone, I'm willing to guess most of the big spenders will follow.
Revert the exchange rate, or better yet, increase it, to stop this nonsense. You've already lost our trust that this game will have any lasting appeal.
Yet, like a battered housewife, thousands of us continue to crawl back to this game. I get that you don't understand the intricacies of abuse, yet are chomping at the bit to drop some profound higher knowledge such as "Nobody owes you anything", but really, is that the stance you want to take? You'd rather roll over and let NCWest continue down this path? You don't love the game like I and many others do?
I do not think this statement is factually correct.
I would bet money that both the average player value (APV) and Gross Revenue from Lineage II NA has gone down considerably since the introduction of Free to Play in GOD. I would even go as far to say that the Total Population of players (determined by unique machineID) has decreased since the launch of GoD.
These are the only metrics that really matter, and I am certain at least NC Korea is tracking it. Maybe I am wrong, but I would like to see that statement refuted with evidence from NC.
The game needs to turn a new direction, that direction is away from Pay2Win. Neutron posted that he plays games by Valve and Blizzard - take an example from their books. Valve's cosmetic microtransactions only, and Blizzard's removal of the Pay2Win component of Diablo III. Both of them were wildly successful, and Lineage II can be as well.
If NC won't do what is needed, they should sell the IP of Lineage II in NA to a different company who will.
I understand these changes are frustrating, especially when there are no good alternatives, but as i've mentioned before we just localize the game as is, the actual design and adjustments to the game economy come from the Development Team. In this case removing this loophole was necessary to fix a runaway Adena inflation issue. There was no restriction to the amount of Adena being created by this bug and I agree with it being fixed in this case. However, it highlights the lack of other good ways to earn Adena, so we hope the Development Team will take notice to this issue as we forward this kind of feedback we receive after this change.
~Thanks
First off, thank you Neutron for stepping up to the plate, it's a hard job, especially when you may not be in charge to make any proposed changes.
Here's a compromise that addresses both (legitimate) issues:
1) There is a significant amount of inflation. Things cost more Adena than they use to.
2) Players who do not spend significant NCcoin cannot advance, even with fishing, it honestly was not enough. The ROI on the investment took up to 5 months of constant fishing to pay for the rod itself. I am one of those fishers, I also an an economist, I understand the math.
So, for now, can we roll back that change until another alternative is found? If we wait six months (average developer life cycle... I also work in a tech company...) you will lose so many people that your game will struggle to recover. Nobody wants that.
The current solution is like finding out your house has a bad roof, and demolishing your roof before you call a roofer to replace it. It does not make any sense.
TLDR;
I went to school for economics and I greatly understand the effect of inflation, and I am certain that fishing was influential in the inflation that we are seeing. This is all true.
Inflation is not bad, however, if it is predictable, if players understand inflation (like companies) they will accommodate their demands and supplies to adjust for it. The worst possible thing for an economy is a sudden change. This is exactly that.
There is also one very important key issue of inflation in real life vs in game. There is no borrowing of money. Steady inflation, for all intents and purposes, does not matter in L2.
You know what's worse than inflation? Deflation. That's exactly what we are about to have. Nobody is going to spend any Adena and the economy will stagnate, because players will understand that if they wait a bit, they can get more with their money. Many economists argue that Federal Reserve induced deflation was the prime cause of the Great Depression. You know who this benefits from deflation the most? Those who buy Adena illegally, because real adena value lags behind in game supply significantly until inventory is exhausted. This is a problem when you take a economic problem and do not consult an economist :)
I do not think this statement is factually correct.
I would bet money that both the average player value (APV) and Gross Revenue from Lineage II NA has gone down considerably since the introduction of Free to Play in GOD. I would even go as far to say that the Total Population of players (determined by unique machineID) has decreased since the launch of GoD.
These are the only metrics that really matter, and I am certain at least NC Korea is tracking it. Maybe I am wrong, but I would like to see that statement refuted with evidence from NC.
The game needs to turn a new direction, that direction is away from Pay2Win. Neutron posted that he plays games by Valve and Blizzard - take an example from their books. Valve's cosmetic microtransactions only, and Blizzard's removal of the Pay2Win component of Diablo III. Both of them were wildly successful, and Lineage II can be as well.
If NC won't do what is needed, they should sell the IP of Lineage II in NA to a different company who will.
No way! Revenue is certainly higher now than Pre-GoD. It's not even close.
The sheer amount of Cloak Scrolls on the market is a testament to that. Additionally; the irony of this comment coming from you should not be lost lol! You are in NOVA; there are multiple 15++ Cloaks in your clan. Each of those at a MINIMUM cost $1k to make. Same holds true for lv5/6 Gems and +10 Shirts. I mean come on; was that a serious comment?
You would be surprised at the amount of people who spend $100k-300k a month on the game and it is just normal for them. This is why ncsoft don't care about us making Adena the big spenders keep it all good for them.
No way! Revenue is certainly higher now than Pre-GoD. It's not even close.
The sheer amount of Cloak Scrolls on the market is a testament to that. Additionally; the irony of this comment coming from you should not be lost lol! You are in NOVA; there are multiple 15++ Cloaks in your clan. Each of those at a MINIMUM cost $1k to make. Same holds true for lv5/6 Gems and +10 Shirts. I mean come on; was that a serious comment?
Maybe you're right. Maybe not.
Lets look at the data available rather than our opinions and extremely bias and limited personal experiences (in both of our cases):
Income in KRW in Q4 2013: 26,000 Millions KWN* (approx)
Income in KRW in Q2 2017: 16,663 Millions KWN
Conclusions:
While Revenue is not what it was in 2009 (we all know that), Lineage II (all regions) income has plummeted in the last 3 and a half years. The one caveat, is that this does not take into account the NA only region segmented, I found that data for 2017 but could not find it for pre-2013 on short notice.
I can say with a high degree of confidence that GoD has resulted in a decrease in Gross Revenue for NCSoft as a whole in regards to Lineage II. This means that the new business model is not working in regards to Gross Revenue.
It is possible for NCSoft to have become more profitable while decreasing revenue by cutting costs, but that would be Net Profit not Gross Revenue, which is a whole other discussion and is not the mark of a successful venture at all.
Note: The Korean Won has held it's value against the dollar almost perfectly since 2013.
Yeah, people like you are quick to blame the people who spend the money and not the companies who initiate the ridiculous pricepoints. Really? The customer is the one that destroys the game? Are you that delusional? You can not honestly think that the person spending real money on digital currency is the reason why fishing was nerfed into the floor, do you?
The problem comes from the fact that the point of entry is so expensively high that only people with billions can get into the game and play. If items were more accessible, you'd see cloak prices being traded around 9b instead of 90b. When more people can play the game, the more supply the market has and the prices will come down. Everybody wins.
This game is about the community which is primarily made up of people who don't spend money on ncoin. If those people's sole income is destroyed what reason do they have to log into the game? That's when the game dies. That's what I'm ****** off about here. The ncoin situation has driven a huge gap between the spenders and free-to-players and NCWest has effectively handed the f2p the rope to hang themselves. Is that really fair? Quit deflecting from the real problem. It's NCWest's gross incompetence.
Mate i don't disagree in principle with you... The prices should go down.. This is true..
I am also not against people that spend money for a game.. Games' development and maintenance needs human effort that should be paid.. Especially when people like one game, it's only fair to pay for it..
My point is that when people are paying ridiculous amounts of money for a game, and it doesn't matter if they really have a huge budget or they do it at the expense of their other needs, the companies are unlikely to decrease the prices...
For example you cannot go to Gucci and ask them to reduce their prices.. Gucci has a huge clientele that is able to pay for these prices and they are not going to cut the prices for as long as they have these customers..
So someone cannot blame Gucci for their prices, since there are people who have no problem with these prices..
It's something similar with L2... People who pay huge amounts for one item should also be blamed for the high prices.. that's all and in any case it's your *** right if you want to spend these amounts for a game.. But you cannot complain if at the end L2 will be a game for only rich people..
Mate i don't disagree in principle with you... The prices should go down.. This is true..
I am also not against people that spend money for a game.. Games' development and maintenance needs human effort that should be paid.. Especially when people like one game, it's only fair to pay for it..
My point is that when people are paying ridiculous amounts of money for a game, and it doesn't matter if they really have a huge budget or they do it at the expense of their other needs, the companies are unlikely to decrease the prices...
For example you cannot go to Gucci and ask them to reduce their prices.. Gucci has a huge clientele that is able to pay for these prices and they are not going to cut the prices for as long as they have these customers..
So someone cannot blame Gucci for their prices, since there are people who have no problem with these prices..
It's something similar with L2... People who pay huge amounts for one item should also be blamed for the high prices.. that's all and in any case it's your *** right if you want to spend these amounts for a game.. But you cannot complain if at the end L2 will be a game for only rich people..
L2 isn't a designer bag. It's more like gambling.
It's a hobby/passtime that people play. Progression used to be 100% tied to the amount of time you could put into the game, and money only circumvented that to some extent.
But eventually you could get all the same stuff as someone that invested thousands of USD into the game to get powerleveled and RMT a bunch of top gear.
Now the amount of time you dump into the game is almost meaningless.
105? AFK fish, only thing to it is spending money on bait and having a connection stable enough to keep you online.
Gear? Well, you and NCStore your way to all the adena your wallet can afford and get the best of the best.
So anything available in game is 100% doable with just opening your wallet as wide as you care to for it.
Then comes the real problem.
The stuff that ONLY comes from he NCstore.
To continue the gambling analogy.
All the normal game in the gear is becoming the comped rooms a casino gives you. The real game is the NCstore, just like the gambling is the money maker in a casino. Who cares about a few hundred dollars a night when you are going to be dumping potentially thousands on the floor (or into the ncstore).
But, unlike a casino... L2 wasn't built around gambling.
It's a game, one that has traditionally rewarded everyone for playing it in a relatively equal fashion. All money did was speed up progression some.
People want to progress, they want their character to get better, they want to feel like they are making some kind of advancement. It's the hamster wheel MMO's have always operated on... except now it's tied to money.
This is especially true with PvP items... and is probably the worst offender in the L2 store because of the competitive nature of PvPers.
A new item comes out that lets a person get a leg up and outperform people who don't have it in PvP. Now everyone else needs to get on that same level to compete or else be an easier (or just easy) loss.
Then the next item comes out and everyone else needs to decide if they are going to keep spending to stay on that same level or not.
NC just keeps repeating this over and over again. Each time loses a bit more people.
But like gambling, the people who choose to stay just want to be able to play. NC knows they can keep charging because SOMEONE will pay it. The only matter is how long until the amount of people left makes the game completely unprofitable.
NCsoft is simply preying on that nature to squeeze as much blood out of the game as they can in a short time. If they were truly interested in the longevity of the game, they would be doing something far more sustainable, and would be looking to expand the player base.
TLDR:
They are Hunting the whales to extinction while starving the fish they feed off of.
Income in KRW in Q4 2013: 26,000 Millions KWN* (approx)
Income in KRW in Q2 2017: 16,663 Millions KWN
Conclusions:
While Revenue is not what it was in 2009 (we all know that), Lineage II (all regions) income has plummeted in the last 3 and a half years. The one caveat, is that this does not take into account the NA only region segmented, I found that data for 2017 but could not find it for pre-2013 on short notice.
I can say with a high degree of confidence that GoD has resulted in a decrease in Gross Revenue for NCSoft as a whole in regards to Lineage II. This means that the new business model is not working in regards to Gross Revenue.
But you can't really say that it was GoD (more precisely, the Tauti update), or the switch to an f2p system at NCWest (in the quarterly earnings reports you will also find the sales per region) which is responsible for the drop in revenue. The main factor has nothing to do with the game itself - it's the death of the internet cafe culture in Asia brought about by the advent of the smartphone. People were suddenly spending more time in social networks than in the lands of Aden, and in the last year or so they have switched to mobile games when they are not busy exchanging smileys on WhatsApp. Attention spans have become significantly shorter and less and less people want to devote the time necessary for a traditional grind game. Just sit down in any coffee shop and watch how peole can't have a normal conversation without checking their phone for new messages every two minutes.
Trying to improve the situation at NCWest by introducing a new business model is pretty much pointless, especially since NCsoft nowadays only uses the old PC-based games as a provider of content to be re-processed in the mobile versions. Check what I wrote here, including the link to Rochand and from there the original Inven article: http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=293688#5
Simply put, the game is over. Try to enjoy your death :)
But you can't really say that it was GoD (more precisely, the Tauti update), or the switch to an f2p system at NCWest (in the quarterly earnings reports you will also find the sales per region) which is responsible for the drop in revenue. The main factor has nothing to do with the game itself - it's the death of the internet cafe culture in Asia brought about by the advent of the smartphone. People were suddenly spending more time in social networks than in the lands of Aden, and in the last year or so they have switched to mobile games when they are not busy exchanging smileys on WhatsApp. Attention spans have become significantly shorter and less and less people want to devote the time necessary for a traditional grind game. Just sit down in any coffee shop and watch how peole can't have a normal conversation without checking their phone for new messages every two minutes.
Trying to improve the situation at NCWest by introducing a new business model is pretty much pointless, especially since NCsoft nowadays only uses the old PC-based games as a provider of content to be re-processed in the mobile versions. Check what I wrote here, including the link to Rochand and from there the original Inven article: http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=293688#5
Simply put, the game is over. Try to enjoy your death :)
Perhaps you are right, there may not be causation, but the correlation is clear.
Thanks for the data source :) Will look more into it in the future.
I made this suggestion because there is currently no regulation involving these kinds of systems. Since I play games from other companies also like EA, Valve and Blizzard, they also do not disclose RNG rates in their games. I personally have no objection with RNG information being public and I always believe more information is better for consumers, but as far as I can tell from looking at things from inside of the gaming industry, this kind of change simply will not occur altruistically.
value reveals the rates of chests you do know that right you are so out of touch
I have a confession to make. For years, I've been buying the Nstore items and been selling them at Giran Market to get Adena. It's been really profitable for me, like 100B in less than 3 minutes. I am reporting Nstore itself as a bug and requesting of its immediate shut down.