I find good that forum moderators monitor the forum and do whatever they are supposed to do. But closing threads like the one of the botting shops? It gives me the impression that you just want us to shut up, and I don't like to get that impression for a service I AM PAYING for every month.
I'm sorry Siren, but this is just WRONG. Instead of telling ppl to use a service that DOES NOT work correctly, you should be telling NCSoft to hire REAL gm's and PROTECT the real user.
It's not only the autoshops, you can travel to Orc village and you will see lots of little spoilers on brigandine and with a bonebreaker deleveling constantly over and over again in order to spoil the same mats. And as the bot shops you don't do anything about it. You can also travel to any spot (except for swamp of screams) and there are bots everywhere... and you tell us to "petition"? Who am I going to ask a petition if no one is EVER online? If all my petitions have been olympically ignored?? If the bots that I constantly report over and over again are STILL there?
Siren honestly don't take this wrong but... if ppl posts about this issues is because THEY EXIST and THEY SHOULDN'T... isn't this your job to see about player's interests? It's not gonna always be like "I love L2 coz it's the best game ever!" type of comments... you have to thank your community for being active and SMART, and you or any other L2 staff member should try to insult our intelligence by censoring comments that you do not like.
Imo Nc's priority #1 should be:
1) Get active GM's and why do they need to be hidden or invisible? It's better that they are online in order to ppl see they are there. Afraid of being constantly pm'd? Well open a channel like the chat or alliance to chat with GM's and don't allow GM's getting pms from players, except for the petition system. That way making a petition will actually be seen by a REAL ACTIVE gm.
2) Ban ALL (and I mean ALL) bots, including bot shops, buff bots and ofc all those soulless chars that wander. Make a massive movement (like the end of The Godfather part I).
This will be GOOD for your game, you will have quality player and good press comments. Will remove your game form all the adena traders sites and eventually (in a short/middle term) will get more and more players.
I believe it's time to start making things right and act the legal way. As I see, a player is as guilty of breaking the eula as the service provider by allowing it to happen.
I repeat I'm not writing this in a bad way but on the contrary, with all my best intentions. I hope you let this THREAD OPEN and don't close it even you u don't like what it's written and LET YOUR PEOPLE post their opinions.
They used to close those threads much faster before, they might just be returning to their old ways... Not only that, people would get warnend for even mentioning bots via pms or even banned !
I got warned over pm by just complaining some years ago that I was taken for a bot for not using shots...
Not surprised here :(, not at all...
"A cry in the void."
NCsoft should change their motto: "We don't listen. We don't ban. We don't care".
Countless petitions yield same result: "We work, thank you for info".
How the community should know that their efforts are not just dumped somewhere, or just deleted?
Dear Wontar,
The Game Masters in the game are very busy. They do not have time to follow you around. There are other customers waiting for their help across all servers.
I know where the bots are. I see them to. We do not have a problem finding them. The problem is time. I can spend all day every day hunting bots (as some of our GMs do) and you will see the servers as they are today (filled with bots.)
So I will continue to ban bots. If you run across bots please us the bot button. It really does help us.
Thank You,
~spam
Such a hypocrisy and lie. 2 GM's can clear 50% of bots on one server in hours. There is no secret where they are (as HGM state), but GM's just don' work and cover themselfs with "other waiting customers" to make a hypocritical excuse.
---
Petitoned a bot and want to know results?
Please understand that as per our Privacy Policy, any details regarding the event or the person(s) involved will be discussed exclusively between NCsoft's Player Relations Department and the registered account owner. If any rules are broken or subsequent action taken, we will not be able to relay any information about the incident and the account(s) involved.
Translation to normal language: Go jump from balcony, we do not care. We will not tell you that we just don't ban bots. Please do not petition more bots, as we will not respond or provide any result of your hard work. *** off.
Dear Wontar,
The Game Masters in the game are very busy. They do not have time to follow you around. There are other customers waiting for their help across all servers.
I know where the bots are. I see them to. We do not have a problem finding them. The problem is time. I can spend all day every day hunting bots (as some of our GMs do) and you will see the servers as they are today (filled with bots.)
So I will continue to ban bots. If you run across bots please us the bot button. It really does help us.
Thank You,
~spam
Well if that is the case then the metods they are using to ban bots are so bad and time consuming it is laugable.
NC stick by their own rules and ToS. If this means closing a thread they will do it.
I've reported many threads over the last month or so only for them to be left open. NC are slacking with their golden padlock and as soon as one gets locked everyone notices and complains.
I think what it would take is one visible GM on each server, banning bots for a couple of hours every day.
You would really only need a couple of GMs doing that. Banning 2 hours on Bartz, 2 hours on Teon, 2 hours on Phoenix, etc. That way you could ban dozens of bot parties every day on every server, and maybe even let people know about it.
If this was done continuously, day after day, week after week, we would have a real deterrent to botting.
Unfortunately this won't ever happen because NCsoft would lose too many customers.
Anyway, +1 before a GM sees this thread and locks it.
I think what it would take is one visible GM on each server, banning bots for a couple of hours every day.
You would really only need a couple of GMs doing that. Banning 2 hours on Bartz, 2 hours on Teon, 2 hours on Phoenix, etc. That way you could ban dozens of bot parties every day on every server, and maybe even let people know about it.
If this was done continuously, day after day, week after week, we would have a real deterrent to botting.
Unfortunately this won't ever happen because NCsoft would lose too many customers.
Anyway, +1 before a GM sees this thread and locks it.
Visible is not such a hot idea for them, more of a public relations ploy (effective one at that though). I get the feeling that the GMs are somewhat held back by legal considerations, more than by any lack of ability to find bots.
"I get the feeling that the GMs are somewhat held back by legal considerations, more than by any lack of ability to find bots"
Legal considerations as in the fact they can ban anyone they like even if they're 100% legit because you pay to use their service and dont pay to own the character?
or the fact that eula's are apparantly as good as paper to wipe your *** with? in which case the whole thing about botting on the eula would mean ncsoft aren't allowed to ban the bots :D
Once you break the EULA which you agree to every time you log on then you have no legal right to use their software, forums or services.
Sorry to say this but even though you're paying to use their service, they can ban or block you with no warning or reason. It is, after all, their property.
Once you break the EULA which you agree to every time you log on then you have no legal right to use their software, forums or services.
Sorry to say this but even though you're paying to use their service, they can ban or block you with no warning or reason. It is, after all, their property.
No it's not even close to being that simple. You are essentially involved in a contract/agreement for which you are giving them money to access their service. If one were to be banned for "no reason" after say investing years of their time and money into the service it opens NCSoft up to legal headaches. It's complicated and not quite as black and white as some might want to see it. Not to mention internal policies that want to make sure legit paying customers don't get banned, so you have to have some quality assurance system in place.
There are of course other considerations, such as the authors of these 3rd party programs continue to modify it to make it harder to distinguish from a client. Of course that would not keep the GMs from manually observing a 9 man train, but nevertheless that complicates issues for them.
Mind you I am not saying there isn't great room for improvement on the part of NCSoft, but rather pointing out that there is always at least 2 sides to any argument or point.
when you see 8 guys following a dwarf and they're all on top of each other, and they're all in party and all on the same IP i can probably say 101% of these cases are fully automated programs...
There's no legal headache. Read the EULA. It is a contract and you willingly agree to it every time you log in. Particularly take note of any sentences with "whatsoever" and "any reason" in them.
There's no legal headache. Read the EULA. It is a contract and you willingly agree to it every time you log in. Particularly take note of any sentences with "whatsoever" and "any reason" in them.
Yea and you can put whatever you want in a EULA, doesn't mean it holds up later. Courts and contracts are complicated and companies have lawyers that try to make policies to avoid future hassles. Not to mention the general business practices of not booting paying customers on a whim. None of this is meant to defend some of the stuff you see going on here, but just trying to add an additional perspective. Entirely possible that I'm completely off the mark, I'm sure there are others here with greater knowledge on the subject.
Either way this becomes quite the circular discussion. Seems to dominate the threads here and is perhaps like beating a dead horse after a while.
maybe it's to do with the fact that "prove beyond reasonable doubt" means "one must be caught spamming zerk to someone who is out of party every 2 seconds for 2 weeks running" to ncsoft
All threads concerning bots and illegal activities are closed unless they get posted to the relevant area where this is discussed. This is the standard procedure NC has on the issue and we need to live with this. On the other hand NC must understand the frustration of the players. They need to get more proactive on the bot issue and not doinf some sporadic "bot raids". Keep the pressure up.
Although I am on old player and used to bots for 2.5 years, there are sometimes that I lose my temper. I was on Devotion the other day and no big room was available. I was so furious that I sent a report of the type "Please do something about it!". I know that such petition has no chance to be heard but I send it nevertheless. Indeed the reply was "provide specific names". GM's responded according to their instructions. I guess their instructions is to respond to specific reports (names). My opinion is that this is wrong. They need to get hands-on to this, investigating proactively (on their own).
1.) you got to round up and view through the hundreds of petitions and bot alerts everyday
2.) you have to log on and teleport to every hunting location in this game and search these massive amounts of land looking for bots, which is unbelievably time consuming considering how big this game is.
3.) you can ban on the spot you have to really check to see if the players are bots or you'll be going through some legal issues for unjustly banning a legit player who may be just not using ss to save money cause its a new player, or may be 2 boxing a buffer/healer to make the grind easier, or just may be hunting in a big group on easy mobs just to have some clan interation and banning on the spot will cause problems
4.) after finding a bot you have to go through the account and disable the account and usually 9 at a time for a bot group.
5.) afterwards you have to move to the next spot and search while still getting oncoming bot reports and petitions from several different players
6.) You have to do this for Every server, which with the little amount of GM's available for bot searching and banning, it is near impossible to sweep through every server and ban every bot in an average work day (cause no-one wants to work 24 hours a day just to search for and ban botters)
So, before you go and justify that the GM's are doing nothing, take some time to think how difficult it is to do that along with other tasks such as
maintainence
fixing coding errors
fixing textual errors
fixing malfunctioning NPCs
Correcting graphical errors
Landform errors
fixing occasional, irregular ping spikes
updating
creating events
interconverse with NCkr
website maintainence
etc.
In a work day with few people to manage all of these
Now while they may or may not get to your request in time, due to the fact that this is a non-restricted open PvP game, take some matters into your own hands.
Well, the bot report button or the petition system sends the exact coordinate of the location where its send. GM's should have the ability to instantly teleport to that location so no time should be consumed there. After the bots are found, which is practically immediate if you have the name of the nbot party leader, a force disconnect from the Gm would be a good idea. Then manually block leader account to prevent from loggin in for 12-48 hours (before it goes permanently banned ofc). This way GM's could work really fast and precise, and it's not that time consuming... I'm telling you, I'd do it for free.
1.) you got to round up and view through the hundreds of petitions and bot alerts everyday
2.) you have to log on and teleport to every hunting location in this game and search these massive amounts of land looking for bots, which is unbelievably time consuming considering how big this game is.
3.) you can ban on the spot you have to really check to see if the players are bots or you'll be going through some legal issues for unjustly banning a legit player who may be just not using ss to save money cause its a new player, or may be 2 boxing a buffer/healer to make the grind easier, or just may be hunting in a big group on easy mobs just to have some clan interation and banning on the spot will cause problems
4.) after finding a bot you have to go through the account and disable the account and usually 9 at a time for a bot group.
5.) afterwards you have to move to the next spot and search while still getting oncoming bot reports and petitions from several different players
6.) You have to do this for Every server, which with the little amount of GM's available for bot searching and banning, it is near impossible to sweep through every server and ban every bot in an average work day (cause no-one wants to work 24 hours a day just to search for and ban botters)
So, before you go and justify that the GM's are doing nothing, take some time to think how difficult it is to do that along with other tasks such as
maintainence
fixing coding errors
fixing textual errors
fixing malfunctioning NPCs
Correcting graphical errors
Landform errors
fixing occasional, irregular ping spikes
updating
creating events
interconverse with NCkr
website maintainence
etc.
In a work day with few people to manage all of these
Now while they may or may not get to your request in time, due to the fact that this is a non-restricted open PvP game, take some matters into your own hands.
Mr. KnightOfDarkness,
This is to inform you sir that because of your continued support you have won a dream vacation to Austin,TX for that grand tour of NCSoft West! You will also receive a complimentary set of stylish, hand-crafted, dwarven kneepads, one Lineage II Anniversary edition bib, and a minty mouthwash that restores one dignity point per gargle. All the GM's are very anxious to meet you in person.
omg... darkness... i dunno... I like your posts man, but this one deserves such an answer... Honestly, normally I wouldn't aprove this... but now, I'm just... just.... speechless :S smookie... good job +1
This is to inform you sir that because of your continued support you have won a dream vacation to Austin,TX for that grand tour of NCSoft West! You will also receive a complimentary set of stylish, hand-crafted, dwarven kneepads, one Lineage II Anniversary edition bib, and a minty mouthwash that restores one dignity point per gargle. All the GM's are very anxious to meet you in person.
Thank you,
Da Smookster....
Dude that's epic in just so many ways lawl. (nothing personal KnightofDarkness, it's just a hysterical post in general).
I find good that forum moderators monitor the forum and do whatever they are supposed to do. But closing threads like the one of the botting shops? It gives me the impression that you just want us to shut up, and I don't like to get that impression for a service I AM PAYING for every month.
I'm sorry Siren, but this is just WRONG. Instead of telling ppl to use a service that DOES NOT work correctly, you should be telling NCSoft to hire REAL gm's and PROTECT the real user.
i think she has posted something like whenever a thread gets created and their is controversy over NC/ingame ways its really a "lose lose" situation for her.
History has shown that when we immediately lock/delete threads of this nature, people jump to the conclusion that we aren't being receptive. Or that we are censoring the bad in an attempt to suppress negative views. Or, that we are just not listening. In a nutshell, leaving the thread, deleting it, locking it....it's a no-win situation. But in the interest of fairness, I thought I would let it ride. Truth be told, I was interested to see the type of feedback this topic generated. But I guess this thread has lived out its usefulness.
I find good that forum moderators monitor the forum and do whatever they are supposed to do. But closing threads like the one of the botting shops? It gives me the impression that you just want us to shut up, and I don't like to get that impression for a service I AM PAYING for every month.
I'm sorry Siren, but this is just WRONG. Instead of telling ppl to use a service that DOES NOT work correctly, you should be telling NCSoft to hire REAL gm's and PROTECT the real user.
It's not only the autoshops, you can travel to Orc village and you will see lots of little spoilers on brigandine and with a bonebreaker deleveling constantly over and over again in order to spoil the same mats. And as the bot shops you don't do anything about it. You can also travel to any spot (except for swamp of screams) and there are bots everywhere... and you tell us to "petition"? Who am I going to ask a petition if no one is EVER online? If all my petitions have been olympically ignored?? If the bots that I constantly report over and over again are STILL there?
Siren honestly don't take this wrong but... if ppl posts about this issues is because THEY EXIST and THEY SHOULDN'T... isn't this your job to see about player's interests? It's not gonna always be like "I love L2 coz it's the best game ever!" type of comments... you have to thank your community for being active and SMART, and you or any other L2 staff member should try to insult our intelligence by censoring comments that you do not like.
Imo Nc's priority #1 should be:
1) Get active GM's and why do they need to be hidden or invisible? It's better that they are online in order to ppl see they are there. Afraid of being constantly pm'd? Well open a channel like the chat or alliance to chat with GM's and don't allow GM's getting pms from players, except for the petition system. That way making a petition will actually be seen by a REAL ACTIVE gm.
2) Ban ALL (and I mean ALL) bots, including bot shops, buff bots and ofc all those soulless chars that wander. Make a massive movement (like the end of The Godfather part I).
This will be GOOD for your game, you will have quality player and good press comments. Will remove your game form all the adena traders sites and eventually (in a short/middle term) will get more and more players.
I believe it's time to start making things right and act the legal way. As I see, a player is as guilty of breaking the eula as the service provider by allowing it to happen.
I repeat I'm not writing this in a bad way but on the contrary, with all my best intentions. I hope you let this THREAD OPEN and don't close it even you u don't like what it's written and LET YOUR PEOPLE post their opinions.
Best Regards to all players and staff members.
swamp of screams is legit exp...i highly reccomend it!
amazingman... what's the topic Siren refers to in the paragraph you quoted? It seems interesting. Nevertheless, I disagree with Siren's comment about being a "no-win situation" simply because each time posts like this are closed, fire is "put down", players' morale drops and there IS some ppl that win when this happens: botters.
By the way.. swamp of screams is great exp indeed and maybe the cooles place to exlpore with a nice party... if all the party zones where like this maybe we'd see less 9-man party botters... (or more dead corpses in the field ^^)
The GM team is for customer support. They don't do Website, they don't do events, they don't do coding, they don't do fixing. All they do is customer support and that's it. It's not so hard really.
What is hard though is to get through all the bs that companies like NCSoft have to go through in order to do anything the correct way. Spam claims it's simply a matter of time. It can't be technically challenging or hard to ban someone in this game. Since I know a few people who are GMs in other games I have a bit of insight on how things work. If you knew, you would puke.
The problem isn't finding the bots, or banning them. The problem is collecting all the proof and doing all the paperwork that is necessary to warrant a ban. Also in all companies that I know so far there is a general problem in the upper regime. The bosses can't commit to either banning bots or not, how many to ban, and who. On one hand they know it destroys the game, on the other hand it's an extreme hassle to collect and ban them, and a potential income loss.
Even when spam and his closer team know that a lot more legit players would come back / or start playing / or stay in the game. Their bosses most likely don't see it that way. Therefore they are made to go through all the bureaucratic bs in order to slow them down. The official reason of course is that they need to do it in order to be legally incontestable - but the truth is that every company that offers a service for money has the right to exclude individuals from that service for no reason at all.
So, in the end it all comes down to one thing: Will the L2 bosses finally see that more should be done or not. I highly doubt that spam and his team can do more than they are already doing even if they wanted to.
So, before you go and justify that the GM's are doing nothing, take some time to think how difficult it is to do that along with other tasks such as
maintainence
fixing coding errors
fixing textual errors
fixing malfunctioning NPCs
Correcting graphical errors
Landform errors
fixing occasional, irregular ping spikes
updating
creating events
interconverse with NCkr
website maintainence
etc.
In a work day with few people to manage all of these
Nearly none of those are actual GM responsibilities. every game company has different teams, coders don't do graphics, graphic artists don't do game design.
What a GM does is basically just answer petitions and investigate petitions.
The website, graphics, code, game design are done by different people.
Unless of course NCSoft Austin has decided to do everything completely opposite of all the other game companies
I said it a million times, and I'll say it a million more.
I work in the gaming industry and a game without community support is destined to fail. There is next to ZERO community support for Lineage 2. They have no one ever visible in game (with the exception of that week that Spam came in world like a month ago...)
It's not just GM's, it's the entire community team.. It has no direction, and it has no one visible. I realize they are restrained by the limits of their game (ie - coding and what abilities it leaves them) but guess what! So is every other Community Team.
They don't talk, they used canned responses for everything, they're stubborn, they are always invisible = fail. :)
Mistryl and Alyra were always highly active, Siren even so when she was Alyra still worked for NC. However, since the departure of Onery and Alyra the activity of all NC staff on the forums, not one individual person, has become rather limited.
My question to Samuel Han (Omega) back in October was answered quite well, however it's a shame to see that very little of this has been heard and/or visibly actioned.
Q: There are many community systems in game (and out of game) which require a lot of attention in order to unify the communication between players and clans. For example, the community (alt+b) boards are out-dated, hard to use and have no documented instructions. They have been neglected for as long as I can remember, yet the potential is definitely there. Likewise, the forums are old, out dated and only maintained 9-5 Austin, Texas time. So, for my question; not focusing on any single method of communication, what advances, improvements or changes can players expect to see across all communication mediums in the coming future?
A: Some time this month, we plan to upgrade the official message boards from UBB format to vBulletin. It will be more stylish, more user-friendly and allow players and moderators a greater number of options and possibilities. We will provide more information on this upgrade in the coming weeks.
As for the in-game community server, we have several ideas that we are currently trying to flesh out to improve its functionality and usability. We are even having discussions about expanding this tool to encompass a broader range of capabilities. As we know more, we will pass that information on to you.
The forum software was updated and for most cases, very well done indeed with only a few teething points. This, for me, was the only change.
My question also asked about out-of-office hours support on the forums, suggesting that the 9-5 working hours (I think it's more like 7-5 for Siren) were not really suitable for a community which is active in more than 3 continents over countless time zones. This was avoided and not answered, however Alyra did tell me once that communicating with the British office was under consideration.
Kinslon, although not a new member to the team, has recently started posting, hopefully in effort to support Siren and to keep the community face from NC alive, however I too feel more can be done in terms of NC answering our queries and joining in on discussions.
Siren (until recent), Alyra and Mistryl have always contributed in discussions and friendly chat, but the frequency has dropped dramatically. I believe players want to have a friendly relationship with their community managers and not consider them as nothing more than moderators who keep out of control threads closed.
This is to inform you sir that because of your continued support you have won a dream vacation to Austin,TX for that grand tour of NCSoft West! You will also receive a complimentary set of stylish, hand-crafted, dwarven kneepads, one Lineage II Anniversary edition bib, and a minty mouthwash that restores one dignity point per gargle. All the GM's are very anxious to meet you in person.
just get it - there is no gm team i even think the whole team is just one person, all of them... i loled my back off when they added a GM *insert random name here* to the automated answer the petion script.
just get it guys:
auto assault -failed-
tabularasa -failed-
aion (not released yet) -FAILED- (just youtube it)
i really don't know why NC soft got this -we dont have a support team- tactics. all we ALL know is that there is no support until something REALLY game crushing (like the connectivity issues) happens.
the bots aren't game crushing. no events? no. no homepage updates? no. no ingame support at all? no.
they just use the fact, that this game is good as hell, and if there was another publisher the legit players could join (like nc japan, nc korea, nc sea) HELL yeah we would do in an instant, there would be no single legit player left on nc na. but we only have to choices: live with the policy - or quit.
i have been in lineage to long now - i have seen any player effort to get this problem solved, nothing worked.
but one good hint for nc soft: DONT DO THINGS LIKE THE SPAM HAPPENING. PLZ. DONT GIVE US HOPE, THE HOLE WE FALL INTO AFTER IS MUCH DEEPER - many of us thought that something would happen. to see that nothing has changed a few months later makes a lot of us legit players think about quitting.
one hint to everyone else: live with it. we did it, we do it and we ll ever do.
Well this is truly the only reason I still play this game. I just haven't found anything to replace it.
This isn't exactly the thing NCsoft should count on to keep their customers, though. Once there is a game that has a PVP system like Lineage, and a subclass system like Lineage I'm gone within 1 day. And I think a lot of people with me.
Shortly afterwards the farmers will leave and then it's over faster with L2 "NA" than NCsoft can even say that they will start doing something.
If I were them, I would have made friends with my customers from the beginning - so that once a game pops up that could steal customers away they will say "NCsoft is such a good company, with such nice support that I doubt this other company will be able to provide anything like it - I'll stay!".
Sadly most companies think about the money flow too much and do nothing to plan into the future. They also don't care about their reputation. Compare Blizzard to NCsoft for example. Most people would buy a new Blizzard game before even seeing one single screenshot or a familiar name - just because it's Blizzard and they are known for quality and superior support.
despite your thoughts that KnightofDarkness is a fanboy, he does state clearly and in no uncertain terms that not all NC employees are there purely to sit in the game and watch people bot. theres a specific team for that, with specific protocols for what they may and may not do.
theres people managing these bot watchers, and theres people managing the people managing the bot watchers.
theres people drafting website content, submitting it to management, who takes 5-7 business days to process the information, make changes, and send it for redrafting or second drafting.
then theres managers for those managers.
theres accountants, lawyers, call center employees, managers for all these departments...
and you seem to think that all you have to do is ban bots? clearly running a company involves more than this.
im not in favour of how things are done in NCNAHQ but you really just CANT pretend to speak for the whole staff when you define the job description of a single person.
let me put it in smaller terms - you think all everyone does at Microsoft is play with Word ? no. theres coders making code for all office programs, theres coders making code for bug fixes, theres coders making code for windows 7, theres coders making compliance statements for licend Microsoft programs, theres people that must do internal testing, and literally hundreds of other departments more.
running NCNAHQ is much more complex than "ban this bot" or "lock this thread".
By not banning cheaters... NC it's breaking its own agreement... let's ban them all!! (or maybe the bots already banned the whole GM staff, who knows... EVERYTHING can happen lol)
By not banning cheaters... NC it's breaking its own agreement... let's ban them all!! (or maybe the bots already banned the whole GM staff, who knows... EVERYTHING can happen lol)
They aren't agreeing to anything, if you actually read EULA's it's always "We reserve the right to" or "If found in violation of x" They never promise to do something. Gotta love law-speak
Spud tbh, thats ********. yes, running a company is much more then just customer support or banning the bots, BUT and thats the point, NA sea, NA japan DOES have a much better bot banning attitude and they have the SAME errands to run as NC NA.
If i think about it a bit longer - every single other MMO company got a better user support then L2 has ... yes. Name 5 companies that are worse then NC soft - you may call my a liar.
North American companies are micro managed like crazy. comes with the territory of having worker unions, employee benefits, and workers themselves being in the public eye.
overseas ONLY the CEO of a company may speak to the public regarding any issue in the company, to do otherwise without consent is taboo as a general rule. overseas the idea that "the big CEO boss is my friend and i will do everything he asks" (given the nation's proneness to Communism this shouldnt be surprising) is over all. the smallest worker all the way up to the 2nd in command all have this feel.
in North america you work and are lazy and complain about your boss, wreak havok on other co-workers by peeing in the fountain, etc. this is the feel of north american employment. slack.
no, overseas does NOT suffer the same responsibilites and activites. not in the LEAST.
i should know, i used to work overseas. when i tried playin the same cards i played at north american jobs ive had ( crackin jokes about the boss, slacking off, talking back to my higher ups, etc) i caught flack from the TOP. not your average slap on the wrist from the next guy up either. for something as simple as an unauthorised extended lunch i was docked a whole days pay and sent a letter from the CEO telling me that was my 1 and only foul up.
you just DONT have the same basic attitudes accross the world. here i might have merely been told not to do that again, or been docked an hours pay.
you want to know why its better overseas? well for one i'll bet you it isnt. for two, if it really is, it would be because of the communist nature of the way companies are run there. if something doesnt happen the way its supposed to happen, all hell breaks loose.
Yes, this post is horribly long. *shrugs* A passionate Siren = a lengthy post
I don't know what more I can say about this type of issue.
You know, I used to sit here and try to devise an adequate response to threads like this - something that would say that we hear you, that we appreciate your feedback, that we're not trying to censor you, then try to explain why policy is in place and why the thread is being closed. I've always felt that every action we take should be honest and forthright. And I've always believed that the community is the most important aspect of this (or any) game.
I know that you and many others in the community get frustrated and discouraged. And I also know that we all need to vent from time to time. However, part of my job does include making sure that certain rules and guidelines are being followed and adhered to.
Right now, I could quote a good number of rules that this thread is breaking. And generally, I would do just that. But instead, I'm going to opt to tell you all that, if you want to get a point across, confrontational mail/posts is not the way to do it. If you don't like the way something is done, we don't mind you telling us. All we ask is that you be constructive in your criticism. Or better yet, if you have something you'd like to discuss, send me a PM and I'll be more than happy to address your concerns. But cross posting to question why another thread was closed, or claiming that we're censoring you are two good reasons to have your thread closed.
I know that not everything in life is all sunshine and roses. And I'm here to listen to the good, the bad and the ugly. But there is a way to be heard, and a way to be padlocked.
And just for the record, sometimes it is not the OP, but the posts that are generated from the original post that get a thread closed. Romanec, I did take your post with a grain of salt. And I could see where you were trying to be constructive. However, "These discussions tend to be circular and more often than not result in accusations and arguments, so the policy was put in place to prevent that from happening."
I just wanted to share some of these thoughts with you guys before I do, in fact, close this thread.