does anyone else thinks that heavy armor mastery lvl 15(lvl 40 skill) for BD lvl 80 is kinda low???
acctually it is so low that he better take a draconic leather instead of heavy armor!!
opinions plz (and why... should it stay that way should be raised or should be moved??)
a prophet has the same lvl on heavy armor mastery!!
does anyone else thinks that heavy armor mastery lvl 15(lvl 40 skill) for BD lvl 80 is kinda low???
acctually it is so low that he better take a draconic leather instead of heavy armor!!
opinions plz (and why... should it stay that way should be raised or should be moved??)
a prophet has the same lvl on heavy armor mastery!!
The heavy armor is the same as knights so your is just below fighter heavy armor + the fact you get crit reduction, don't complain
Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's frustrating, and it's stupid. BDs, like the PP and the BH have all been greatly overlooked by NCSoft and have been told to **** and deal with it.
Oh well, that's what subclasses are for. It sucks to see your main class either nerfed to hell or totally neglected by updates, but what are you gonna do. It's just a game.
eeeer did u see me complaing?? i acctually imply they completly remove it !!(lvl 15 is like lvl 0 ^^)
Actually....
By saying it's..
kinda low???
...with lots of question marks, indicates you are somewhat distraught by the fact that you only have level 15. You can't remove it anyway; it's the base of the PK's heavy armour mastery. If we were to remove all 1st class skills such as this, say goodbye to prophets and bishops leveling pre-20 with windstrike... :p:p:p
lol take away the hvy passive? if that was the case all those 76+ bds would get killed faster because you're losing your -crit damage bonus so archers nom on you just for fun lol. Also Drac for PvE only I can't tell you how many times I've watched those LA BDs crumple to everyone even pps in oly.
To the OP----I don't know, as a tank class one of my 'major' skills was Power Strike. Don't quote me but I think level 9 was as high as it went---and that pinnacle was reached around level 20!
Wearing a-grade the power strike is still..............level 9.
Good thing I have that awesome 'judgement' skill to take its place! :)
yes but did u ever found any other with powerstike lvl 40??? tip : NO!
Not specifically but the overhit/power skills of many of the other classes certainly go up faster and higher!
Seriously, for tanks powerstrike is 'the' deal for a long time. It's a skill. Orc overhits, dagger overhits---all progress in power, strength, level throughout development of the toon.
That was my only point.
To answer your question: no-no one else has specific powerstrike that is higher than level 9.
Not specifically but the overhit/power skills of many of the other classes certainly go up faster and higher!
Seriously, for tanks powerstrike is 'the' deal for a long time. It's a skill. Orc overhits, dagger overhits---all progress in power, strength, level throughout development of the toon.
That was my only point.
To answer your question: no-no one else has specific powerstrike that is higher than level 9.
thats exactly his problem, D. if someone had a powerstrike lvl 15, while you only got to stay at 9 youd be ****** too. his heavy mastery stopped, and for other classes they got heavy mastery all the way to like 45 (max level w/e that is).
its a half-in, half-out sort of deal. why stop at lvl 35 (heavy mastery 15)? obviously more BD's wear heavy.
but if you want to take it that way - give orc tyrants heavy mastery then, cause no tyrant i know would favour DCLight over Tallum heavy.
Yeah-I got his point Spuddy. But there's a reason the fast DD's don't get heavy that continues to go up.
Does the tyrant or dagger (his peers as BD) get higher heavy mastery? I'm thinking they do not.
The point of these 'classes' is to deal damage quickly--and to have some evasion. Not to take a punch.
Actually with the logic that a DD should get heavy mastery that progresses you'd have to be all for tank classes to get speed and evasion all the way up---yes?
I understood the point--I just don't agree that a BD should get heavy masteries that continue. Given their UD, ability to hold, speed, power, and throwing in heavy mastery at that level--they'd be an incredibly OP'd class comparitively.
No one class gets everything....we tanks have meager overhit shots (as I pointed out). We get some crowd control (and a summon in my case that's a glass cannon) but as for our primary 'hit'---it dies out very quickly in our skill tree. Because we're not supposed to hurt anything offensively by ourselves. We can freeze, stun, light self heal (better for some), get some group benefit floaties, hold (aggro), debuff, and slow--offensively we intentionally suck.
(okay-huge generalization but mostly accurate)
The DD's aren't heavy tanks. If you said a Destroyer couldn't gain heavy mastery that would be different. But a BD? No thanks.
thats exactly his problem, D. if someone had a powerstrike lvl 15, while you only got to stay at 9 youd be ****** too. his heavy mastery stopped, and for other classes they got heavy mastery all the way to like 45 (max level w/e that is).
its a half-in, half-out sort of deal. why stop at lvl 35 (heavy mastery 15)? obviously more BD's wear heavy.
but if you want to take it that way - give orc tyrants heavy mastery then, cause no tyrant i know would favour DCLight over Tallum heavy.
Warriors get more heavy armor masteries because they're heavy masteries are rather lesser
tanks get more becuase they're tanks duh
bards don't get more cause they're support and they're heavy masteries are pretty strong
I think BD's and SwS should get Light Armor masteries all the way to lvl 74. In every other game or fiction, bard's are never depicted as wearing heavy armor. It's lame to give them no armor masteries when every other class in the game has atleast one specific armor passive lvled all the way to 74 though.
BD and SWS get more powerful armor mastery than a normal fighter does. the crit reduction is infinitely better than raw pdef. You either don't recognize how lucky you are for having it or you're stupid if you want to have normal mastery instead of what you have
lv15 tank heavy mastery > lv 50 warrior heavy mastery
does anyone else thinks that heavy armor mastery lvl 15(lvl 40 skill) for BD lvl 80 is kinda low???
acctually it is so low that he better take a draconic leather instead of heavy armor!!
opinions plz (and why... should it stay that way should be raised or should be moved??)
a prophet has the same lvl on heavy armor mastery!!
BD is not a Tank, nor is it by definition considered a DD. That's why you don't get any more Heavy Armor masteries after 40, which is fair enough.
the little icons you see in game with skill and lvl.... don't look @ they're face value there are lots of little numbers and subtractions going on behind them.
to over use a saying, 'don't judge a book by its cover'.
all skills once in game are there to stay. A SA on a dagger was the only thing that was removed by NC soft in this game.
Not so ironic.
BD is good fighter, but it needs better equipement to withstand vs daggers/archers/duelists/mages. I talk about pvp only.
For pve, it is perfect. Allways full buffed (ok, without songs :)) - and I have no OOP buffer only ch. What can be better for exping? And it is easer to find party for exping than other classes.
Ok BD have low heavy armor mastery, but common guys, do you expect that BD should be similar to Shillen Knight - taking damage from 10 enemies and still alive???
That nonsence. Knights are defencive classes. BD is designed to be more offencive than defencive. Don't agree? Look to this:
- dual swords = no shield
- no defencive dances, magic resist dances doesn't count
- mass debuf dances: medusa, poison blade, demonic dances -> all dances needs rush to enemy group.
All heavy mastery for me is similar to gladiator - not bad defence but not so good in compare to pure tank.
What I expect for future development is that BD and SWS will have skills which allow to kill or deactivate daggers. That would be logical from party role perspective.
Not so ironic.
BD is good fighter, but it needs better equipement to withstand vs daggers/archers/duelists/mages. I talk about pvp only.
That's the thing! You already HAVE better defense against those classes than a normal support character has, the crit reduction in your knight armor makes you better against archers and daggers, and mdef passives from NG means you have more mdef than a human/orc fighter does
If you trade out your 15 levels of knight mastery for a full 4x levels of warrior mastery then you'll be screwing over yourself, archers/daggers will crit you harder even with your extra few points of pdef
i'm pretty sure a well-oiled pvp group won't have a need for their bd to be taking damage in the first place.
the nukers and archers should kill most of whatever comes your way and you have the anchor dance to stop anything that does get through so the support can run away and the aforementioned damage can get in position for when the enemies un-anchor.
let's also not forget that you get a level or two of deflect arrow, if you really wanted to take some damage with a sword-n-board macro inbetween songs.
I had writte some party vs party strategies long time ago. It was for c4/c5 rules, now everything changes little bit.
In these strategies BD and SWS have very concrete and important roles. Not only dances/songs in time.
There was such activities like protecting healers/buffers, MA(I call it main targeter) and similar.
So BD (and SWS) is far awayu not least in party play...
i'm pretty sure a well-oiled pvp group won't have a need for their bd to be taking damage in the first place.
the nukers and archers should kill most of whatever comes your way and you have the anchor dance to stop anything that does get through so the support can run away and the aforementioned damage can get in position for when the enemies un-anchor.
let's also not forget that you get a level or two of deflect arrow, if you really wanted to take some damage with a sword-n-board macro inbetween songs.
trust me bd has no problems vs archers... deflect arow...bladestorm dance... critical reduction...
bd has problems usualy vs mages and tanks of course(hmmm and knight classes ususally)...(and some times vs daggers) they just instant kill him.... maybe critical reduction dosent occur vs magick damage..
i didnt know there were 2 heavy masteries... tank and warrior heavy mastery??? wtf? i only knew there was heavy mastery!! so the knights dont have critical reduction in their heavy mastery??? lf confirmation (if that is the case then lvl 15 will be kinda balanced i think)
trust me bd has no problems vs archers... deflect arow...bladestorm dance... critical reduction...
bd has problems usualy vs mages and tanks of course(hmmm and knight classes ususally)...(and some times vs daggers) they just instant kill him.... maybe critical reduction dosent occur vs magick damage..
i didnt know there were 2 heavy masteries... tank and warrior heavy mastery??? wtf? i only knew there was heavy mastery!! so the knights dont have critical reduction in their heavy mastery??? lf confirmation (if that is the case then lvl 15 will be kinda balanced i think)
Knights have "knight" heavy mastery up to 52
Bards have "Knight heavy mastery up to 52
Hi. How many people on this thread have leveled up a BD to s-grade and played it as their main?
BDs HAVE gotten shafted in the eyes of NCSOFT. Don't believe me? Still think... OMG BD= BEST CLASS EVAR B/C THEY MAKE ME HIT STUFF FAST AND CRIT A LOT!11!
The reason everyone who thinks BDs are great the way they are thinks that because all they see if the benefits they get from a BD, and those benefits have not changed.
What HAS changed is that nearly EVERY other class in the game (aside from PP/BH/Warlord for the most part) have gotten statistical changes, passive changes, skill changes and increased abilities. NOT BD.
What have they gotten since C3 or C4? Dance of Bladestorm. Basically, no passive updates, no skill updates. I think the only change that affected them was the increased power of bleed which we have from sting. However, sting is a move ALL dark elven fighters have and is one of the ONLY attack skills a BD has aside from hitting someone with a bow or their duals.
With all the increased damage players are able to give with elemental attributes and such, BD/SWS lack of any armour mastery really hurts them, and no longer can they take damage like a class in heavy armour should be able to take damage.
To say that the lv. 15 heavy armour masteries we have from our 1st class skills are better than max level warrior armour masteries are laughable. The crit reduction, while it is something, it's not much of something. The crit dmg reduction is set at a % fraction which is extremely limited. On a tank, that means something, on a BD it means almost nothing. To give you an idea of what that fraction equals too, look at the tank subclass skill you can recieve, the crit damage reduction. It's LESS than that, and I am pretty sure that crit dmg reduction is set at 3% or less crit dmg reduction.
BD USED to be a hybrid tank/dd/buffer. As time has gone on, their role of hybrid tank has basically completely disapeared, and their role as real DD is starting to decline as well, and they are getting pushed more and more into the role of JUST party buffer.
If NC is going to ONLY give the BDs new dances with the updates and NO statistical updates at all to help them keep up with all the other class changes, BD (on a lesser scale) is going the way of the PP.
The reason people think BDs are 'fine the way they are' is just like people think PP is 'fine the way it is'. It's buffs keep everyone else happy and doing good damage, while the class itself is broken outside of the buffs.
I really dont understand why he is complaining about the skills a BD has over any other class...that's like me complaining that my Necro is like a cardboard box and can die easily then most classes...this game was desinged for sacrafices..it was intended to blanace out each class as best they could so no one class could over power more then one...suck it up like a man and play ur **** class..and anyone who uses a BD for a tanker is just ******ed..thats like me using an archer to pull a room of aggro and taking all the damage..dark elfs come with extrmemly low con..wich is why alot of ppl use a human tank over a dark elf tank..i prefer human tanks for RB and dark elves for tanking mobs...considering DE's LS and cubics are ubber ****.
I love my BD and I have lvled it from 0 to 79 with oop buffs and the occasional party, but I almost always preferred to solo in the upper lvls due to time conflicts to work. The OP obviously hasn't played a BD for the last 5 years and has a true understanding of the changes where handed down to move from hybrid tank in the money room days of AL to the buffer role (which is the appropriate role for the BD unfortunately), since we are just a glorified buffer now especially with the minimal range (bow use) and low HP based on our chosen class. There are of course things that can be done to boost this like S-armor, a or s-grade shirt with CP, etc just to name a few. Boss jewels +++ omg they helped too but obviously if you can't afford them you complain for nothing. ++ OE yer skills and get some decent gear and quit ******ing since it is what it is..
hello. my name is temple knight. nice to meet you, your damage output, and your massive amount of skills that you can't get anywhere else in the game.
Thank you for that insightful and informative response. It proves exactly how much you know about what you are talking about. ^_^
Nice red herring there.
Stop crying about your damage output for attention. You brag about your -9 STR +9 CON and your 'pure tank' setup, and then QQ about your damage output. -9 STR= bad dmg? No wai.
Gladiators use duals and paladins use sword and shield....whats your point?
A Paladin is a tank, not a DD. SwS and BD are similar, soooo what's your point?
Anyway, I agree with sikamikanico. Maybe instead of Heavy Maser they should get general armor mastery like the -20 skills. Low P.Def gain but at least they wouldn't get ran through so easily.
Thank you for that insightful and informative response. It proves exactly how much you know about what you are talking about. ^_^
Nice red herring there.
Stop crying about your damage output for attention. You brag about your -9 STR +9 CON and your 'pure tank' setup, and then QQ about your damage output. -9 STR= bad dmg? No wai.
hi can I come and cry about my dmg output with +5 str as a dwarf?
Thank you for that insightful and informative response. It proves exactly how much you know about what you are talking about. ^_^
Nice red herring there.
Stop crying about your damage output for attention. You brag about your -9 STR +9 CON and your 'pure tank' setup, and then QQ about your damage output. -9 STR= bad dmg? No wai.
oh snap...she defamed me for calling her BS.
first, i didn't cry about my damage in this post...i commented on how much damage a bd throws out there. several thousand extra p.atk when in a full party.
second...anyone care to fame me to make up for telling the truth and losing 1 fame point to her? thanks in advance. feel free to defame her for qq'ing about one of the most wanted classes in the game.
third, even with +4 str, a TK's p.atk is ~900 with average buffs where a bd's is somewhere around 1500+ with similar buffs.
lastly, i do believe i'm sort of known as one of the people who just rattles off cold, hard facts.
A Paladin is a tank, not a DD. SwS and BD are similar, soooo what's your point?
Anyway, I agree with sikamikanico. Maybe instead of Heavy Maser they should get general armor mastery like the -20 skills. Low P.Def gain but at least they wouldn't get ran through so easily.
A paladin can get 2handed masteries and dd skills and with the lowered pdef they still have more than warriors due to the fact that they have knight heavy armor mastery instead of the petty warrior heavy armor mastery
You are a BD
you have better heavy mastery at level 40 than a level 74 warrior
you have dances that boost your DD ability
you have attack skills
you are glorified in ANY party which means you get people to fight with, even for you just to have you around
You can whip out a bow and take out enemies in 76+ pvp
You have naturally high crit, attack speed, run speed, and accuracy allowing you well usage of bows
You have the highest natural strength in the game
You have a few pretty strong debuffs and debuff dances
you have a physical root (best root type)
you have resistance to bow with passive, buff, and dance which are used by one of the most powerful pvp classes
So with all these things you have 3 options
Deal with it
Reroll
Quit and never come back
pick one and get on with your life.
Man, KnightofDarkness, did you really say that quote of yours at the end of your speech yourself? You sound like a windbag in real life and not just on chat forums?
Man, KnightofDarkness, did you really say that quote of yours at the end of your speech yourself? You sound like a windbag in real life and not just on chat forums?
Man, KnightofDarkness, did you really say that quote of yours at the end of your speech yourself? You sound like a windbag in real life and not just on chat forums?
You go girl.
he's just mad because i called him on his BS here:
You didnt call me on BS. It was that the Knight armor has better crit def, see higher up in this very board.
And by the way, your "Buff Bar" BS is total crud. If you hit alt-number it will use the 2nd action bar's number instead of the first. It doesn't change to the page anymore, once they added three "buff bars" you had to click to dance/sing.
And you are still just ****** you are a TK, which is the lamest class in the game except the Elf Dagger maybe.
You didnt call me on BS. It was that the Knight armor has better crit def, see higher up in this very board.
And by the way, your "Buff Bar" BS is total crud. If you hit alt-number it will use the 2nd action bar's number instead of the first. It doesn't change to the page anymore, once they added three "buff bars" you had to click to dance/sing.
And you are still just ****** you are a TK, which is the lamest class in the game except the Elf Dagger maybe.
Prequil noob ftw.
Eva's Templar pwns in Olympaid, Best raid tanks, and EVERY tank pwns BD's selfbuffed especially the QQ BDs even if their high level
Eva's Templar pwns in Olympaid, Best raid tanks, and EVERY tank pwns BD's selfbuffed especially the QQ BDs even if their high level
I noticed you mentioned PvP and regular PvE... Anyway, the original argument was that there was some armor differences in BD's and maybe because someone did inform us that knight heavy armor was different that warrior heavy armor skills it answered the questions as to why.
I know this thread shows us more casual forum people why we don't talk more...
People Hard in our FACE with COLD HARD FACTS!!!
And Toolsheds who only posted 4k times to whine then whine about someone else whining.
I noticed you mentioned PvP and regular PvE... Anyway, the original argument was that there was some armor differences in BD's and maybe because someone did inform us that knight heavy armor was different that warrior heavy armor skills it answered the questions as to why.
I know this thread shows us more casual forum people why we don't talk more...
People Hard in our FACE with COLD HARD FACTS!!!
And Toolsheds who only posted 4k times to whine then whine about someone else whining.
I told everyone the information several times and all that comes back are crying. Just sayin if you don't like the class, reroll, there are 34 classes to pick and choose from
lvl 80 BD in dynasty pdef:1048
lvl 80 dorf in dynasty pdef:1078
i know the pdef is gonna add up a bit with full buffs but seriously have a friggn cry because you are lacking a few points
you are gonna have a hard time finding someone to feel sorry for you when there is not a single party in game that doesn't benefit from your buffs and you solo better than 90% of classes in game
I'm not sure what you mean. Though there were plate skills for BD's, as well as light armor skills in c3.
the buff bar i'm referring to is that songs and dances used to count for the 20-24 total buff slots you could hold at any given time. songs and dances are now on their own buff bar apart from the other buffs which means you were given an absolutely *HUGE* boost rather recently.
you claimed bd's had light armor mastery...that's utter BS and i called you on it and that's when you first started to qq instead of just suck it up and get on with it. but no, you show the mark of a true newbie and keep qq'ing about other things. go ahead, de-fame me...one fame from purp and i'll have 40x what you'd take away.
You didnt call me on BS. It was that the Knight armor has better crit def, see higher up in this very board.
And by the way, your "Buff Bar" BS is total crud. If you hit alt-number it will use the 2nd action bar's number instead of the first. It doesn't change to the page anymore, once they added three "buff bars" you had to click to dance/sing.
And you are still just ****** you are a TK, which is the lamest class in the game except the Elf Dagger maybe.
Prequil noob ftw.
am i mistaken, or am i one of the people that re-enforced the knight armor mastery? i answered the question but people are still crying. being one of them, maybe you can tell us why?
as far as switching bars with keyboard shortcuts, read your instruction manual -- left alt, rooster-teeth.
i'll say it again...i love my TK and they're definitely the most gimped class, but certainly not the most lame. also, in 1v1 self-buffed, a plainswalker is pretty much the on the top few rungs of the ladder.
we are all prequal newbies, actually...lineage 2 is set 1000 years before lineage 1. oh snap. i went there. /printscreen
lvl 80 BD in dynasty pdef:1048
lvl 80 dorf in dynasty pdef:1078
i know the pdef is gonna add up a bit with full buffs but seriously have a friggn cry because you are lacking a few points
you are gonna have a hard time finding someone to feel sorry for you when there is not a single party in game that doesn't benefit from your buffs and you solo better than 90% of classes in game
whatever said he's not even a bd or sws...he said he's a DA in another post. he's qq'ing for no real reason...
A paladin can get 2handed masteries and dd skills and with the lowered pdef they still have more than warriors due to the fact that they have knight heavy armor mastery instead of the petty warrior heavy armor mastery
You are a BD
you have better heavy mastery at level 40 than a level 74 warrior
you have dances that boost your DD ability
you have attack skills
you are glorified in ANY party which means you get people to fight with, even for you just to have you around
You can whip out a bow and take out enemies in 76+ pvp
You have naturally high crit, attack speed, run speed, and accuracy allowing you well usage of bows
You have the highest natural strength in the game
You have a few pretty strong debuffs and debuff dances
you have a physical root (best root type)
you have resistance to bow with passive, buff, and dance which are used by one of the most powerful pvp classes
So with all these things you have 3 options
Deal with it
Reroll
Quit and never come back
pick one and get on with your life.
I hate to be mean but whiners irritate me
Knight, you are wrong and right same time.
* you have better heavy mastery at level 40 than a level 74 warrior: maybe, but we don't have same damage power and hits
* you have dances that boost your DD ability: in oly/1vs1 pvp it may be benefit, but not party vs party or mass pvp.
* you have attack skills: :D :D give me a break :D ... what skills? :D To be serious, there is only ONE attack skill which direct purpose is not to deal damage but to put on debuff. This skill is named STING. Actually thbis skills helps when you fight vs low hp high evasion classes like daggers.
* you are glorified in ANY party which means you get people to fight with, even for you just to have you around: agree on this
* You can whip out a bow and take out enemies in 76+ pvp: disagree. Bow is only an option. Remember, you have dual sword masteries not bow. If you pull out bow, you will notice drop of dmg per time. Bow is usable only on following situations:
* enemy running from you
* you are on UD/root and can't reach enemies with swords
* you are on archers party and wana to give some damage
* high damage melee enemy is rooted and you kill him with a bow
* You have naturally high crit, attack speed, run speed, and accuracy allowing you well usage of bows: BD don't have high crit. It have high critical damage. It can use bow, but not as main weapon as mentioned above.
* You have the highest natural strength in the game: so what? Daggers always goes -5/4str +5/4con as pvp setup.
* You have a few pretty strong debuffs and debuff dances: agree/disagree:
* Hex/power break: same have Abys walker and shillen knight
* sting: same have Abys walker and shillen knight
* medusa: agree
* poison blade dance: I started to believe that this dance is useless in end game pvp
* demonic blade dance(lowers enemy attack and m.attack): true, but range is very close
* you have a physical root (best root type): true, but it have very short root time in compare with other roots
* you have resistance to bow with passive, buff, and dance which are used by one of the most powerful pvp classes: what you mean. Deflect arrows are ok. Anti archers song also ok.
And some log part with pvp with s grade dagger:
miss
miss
miss
crit, damage 400
miss
hit 150
hit 160
crit 400
miss
miss
use sting, damage 350, sting failed
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
use sting, damage 350, sting failed
...
And it is not whining, far away, I have killed s grade archers/daggers and so one. But everything is wrong! BD is party player and it suppose work as party player. It is not solo kamikadze like TH.
i think he was trying to illustrate the *fact* that bd's are sitting rather high on the damage ladder even if all they do is sit there and dance...the rest of the party still gets a few thousand p.atk and a holy crapload of extra attack speed.
also, i've been in parties in IT and such with no healer, just a bd with vr dance and a prophet. you're not disagreeing that bd's are an insane class...you're just nitpicking the details. ;)
Serelina, nobody say that BD is crap. Yes, they are very usefull in party.
I just wanted to point several things:
- BD is a melee fighter without normal damage dealing skills
- BD can beat 1vs1 most classes, if they are same buffed and plus BD have his dances
- BD have average p.def
- BD have average damage output per time
- BD have average m.def
- BD have better defence from archers
- BD can solo exp prety well with oop/ch buffs, but it is designed to be party character
- most melle fighters pvp are based on "Burst" damage, BD cant do that
- IMHO BD should be re-designed to take down/disable light classes, maybe increase of accuracy???
you guys are insane
you all seem to agree that BD is an awesome party class and an awesome solo class but what.... you want to be able to wipe out whole parties too?
every now and again i get to play a BD in PVP, all skills are +0 and 90% of the ppl we fight are 80+ and the kinda havoc i can cause is ridiculous.... and yet you still want more
Serelina, nobody say that BD is crap. Yes, they are very usefull in party.
I just wanted to point several things:
- BD is a melee fighter without normal damage dealing skills
- BD can beat 1vs1 most classes, if they are same buffed and plus BD have his dances
- BD have average p.def
- BD have average damage output per time
- BD have average m.def
- BD have better defence from archers
- BD can solo exp prety well with oop/ch buffs, but it is designed to be party character
- most melle fighters pvp are based on "Burst" damage, BD cant do that
- IMHO BD should be re-designed to take down/disable light classes, maybe increase of accuracy???
but they're not intended to be anything but a bard...and bards don't usually get heavy armor.
watch the movie "the gamers: dorkness rising" and be thankful ncsoft gave blade dancers so ****ed much. besides...sws have it at quite a bit worse than you bd's.
As an ST I far outdamage equal lvl and geared SD's, providing we have the same buffs (dances included). If a tank is outdamaging you, how can you say you deal decent damage?
As an ST I far outdamage equal lvl and geared SD's, providing we have the same buffs (dances included). If a tank is outdamaging you, how can you say you deal decent damage?
logistically, that's impossible.
you have the same stats and with equal buffs, dances, and gear...duals are still stronger and attack faster -- by a lot.
No, no.
We don't wana uber skills like daggers, we dont wana high survability skills like tank.
We want something what let us to disable/kill light classes - that would be good from party play pvp logic. Actually we can do something vs light classes - root them, but thats all in most cases.
Few skill examples (dont judge, making them on the fly)
Skill name: sword cross
Damage: damage 1.5 higher than normal hit round (2 semi hits)
MP usage: 10
Skill time: 1s
Reuse time: 5s
Additional info: hardly avoidable close melee skill.
Idea: spam skills which gives average damage (not big one like daggers/duelists) which will hit daggers/archers even in UE state
Toggle skill name: swords circle
MP usage 5 per tick
Effects: p.def increases x1.5, chance to block/evade magic attack x1.5, p.atack decreases 1.5x, speed decreases 2x
Idea: to have something similar to OL toggle skill Soul guard. It is like going into defence state and everything goes to blocking all attacks with swords.
Disram to BD? :D, I think nobody will agree on that :D
granted fb has focus, but duals faster attack speed and chance to crit twice for each one hit should more than balance that out...that's why duals have always been the preferred power leveling weapon since c1.
granted fb has focus, but duals faster attack speed and chance to crit twice for each one hit should more than balance that out...that's why duals have always been the preferred power leveling weapon since c1.
This is wrong. Patk is only one factor when calculating DPS. Please learn to use l2calc.
I would be using vanguard if S Duals DPS was higher, but it's not.
you have the same stats and with equal buffs, dances, and gear...duals are still stronger and attack faster -- by a lot.
Don't forget that our damage speed is for price of damage...
I mean we hit twice per one hit round - dual swords remember - and our damage is twice weaker than same p.atack normal weapon.
This is usefull vs mages only - bigger chance to break spell cast, thats all.
And yes, same level DA/SK/and believe EK easilly beats BD - tested. Of course if BD don't kitte :)
whatever said he's not even a bd or sws...he said he's a DA in another post. he's qq'ing for no real reason...
As I said, I have a 46 sws I was trying out for the 1st time, seeing about a Sub-Class.
You know, testing the class out. SwS only gets lvl 15 armor too.
I had the same thoughts on it as the original poster of this thread.
You are a TK, but have another toon who's SwS, and I have to remember your Drama. Once KnightofToolshed stated the armor of knights reduces crits, you licked his heels with .... "Yea, that's it... logically..."
Seems to me like you didn't know that and were just jumping on to seem like you knew the COLD HARD FACTiods.
When I asked in the other forum, you didn't answer that... In fact, I had the time of listening to your drama there, too.
So Chill, your TKness, posting 2 in a row to dog me out is lame. We come to these forums to ask instead of searching the whole web and just want to know.
We don't need Super Post Master Generals trying to flex their little wits because they get clowned upon for their tool-ness elsewhere.
ok guys i think u missed the point of my thead (at least some of you :P)
i wanted to start a disccusion about the heavy mastery of the bd not a noob flame war (knightofdarkness please go see a doctor or something and stop spaming my thead ok? your opinions are the noobiest i ve ever heard and u are usually 99% wrong in anything u say -propably never played a bd huh? -u waste all your life in theese forums and insted of helping ppl u flame... go to l2.blah or try to get a life offline.. i didnt coplaint about the armor mastery i just asked about opinios... u only see whinning ppl cause u are propably a big whinner...i give u one negative feed for the trouble u caused bb now)
coming to a short conclusion... dark elves fighters have a better heavy armor mastery (critical reduction incuded) till lvl 40 -right? so the DE tank has the best heavy armor mastery in game? lf confimation
dark elf heavy mastery armor lvl 15 is like dwarven heavy armor mastery lvl 74?? just a few points of pdef less?? lf confirmation
ty u all for posting and replying (you opinions count)
coming to a short conclusion... dark elves fighters have a better heavy armor mastery (critical reduction incuded) till lvl 40 -right? so the DE tank has the best heavy armor mastery in game? lf confimation
dark elf heavy mastery armor lvl 15 is like dwarven heavy armor mastery lvl 74?? just a few points of pdef less?? lf confirmation
ty u all for posting and replying (you opinions count)
No, Shillien knight does not have the highest pdef if that is what you are asking. All the knight classes get the crit reduction heavy armor masteries. So the 2 humans and the 1 light elf tank get the same type of masteries. In pdef the human tanks win in the end though, thanks to majesty self buff.
For your other question, I think this was proved by Nana earlier in this thread, when he/she posted the pdef stat comparison on a bd and bh equal lvl and equally geared.
As an ST I far outdamage equal lvl and geared SD's, providing we have the same buffs (dances included). If a tank is outdamaging you, how can you say you deal decent damage?
Is this hitting an NPC or mob?
If you two did a duel between you to see the dmg then you are failing since
ST pdef >>> SD pdef
dark elf heavy mastery armor lvl 15 is like dwarven heavy armor mastery lvl 74?? just a few points of pdef less?? lf confirmation
it is and dorf heavy armor mastery is the same effect and lvls that all heavy armor warrior classes get so if anyone wants to nit pick BD technically have better pdef than ws, bh, destro, glad and wl once you factor in crit damage
i should prolly call in some dorf buddies and turn this into a "dorf vs BD" thread but tbh i'm about 5 seconds away from neg repping every BD in here because i'm abit of a tool and this is all starting to sound like nukers whinning for something extra back in the days when they aura burned and sleep nuked everything to death ><
If you two did a duel between you to see the dmg then you are failing since
ST pdef >>> SD pdef
It's not based on a duel, its based on DPS calculations on a hypothetical target in l2calc. I've also tested it in game killing mobs. Forgotten blade with focus is just a much better weapon.
It's mainly due to S grade duals having a very bad SA. If it had focus like the B grade Tsu*SLS, the damage would be closer. You could do a comparison with OE'd B duals, but with 150 element (something l2calc cannot calculate) the ST would still end up out-damaging.
However, if you test a +0 Forgotten blade with no focus vs. +0 S duals, the BD ends up winning. I think there are S80 duals with focus, but GL getting those.
Edit: Keep in mind, even when the BD wins in a non-focus situation, it's usually by like 20 points of damage per second. So that's pretty crappy considering I get a shield and better defensive abilities to make up for that small difference.
it is and dorf heavy armor mastery is the same effect and lvls that all heavy armor warrior classes get so if anyone wants to nit pick BD technically have better pdef than ws, bh, destro, glad and wl once you factor in crit damage
i should prolly call in some dorf buddies and turn this into a "dorf vs BD" thread but tbh i'm about 5 seconds away from neg repping every BD in here because i'm abit of a tool and this is all starting to sound like nukers whinning for something extra back in the days when they aura burned and sleep nuked everything to death ><
Oh yea, b/c BDs are sooooo overpowered and just run around 1 shoting/2-shoting everything. When you see a BD running for you, the first thought is RUN right? Not...LOL.
How is it whinning for something extra when all they have is party buffs and basically NOTHING else to do damage or take damage in pvp with?
I already explained the crit damage and how it's a set fraction of 3% crit reduction at the lv.15 level the BDs get, which is really insignificant at this point with the amount of damage heavy-dealing crit classes are able to give out now.
So, yea, it's something, but I would take the increased pdef over that anyday, because overall the p.def ends up being better in the end.
Go ahead, - rep me away.
Sure, BDs are cool in mass pvp and can cause some confusion by running into the fray and aoe poisioning, hex/powerbreaking people and using medusa, but they are not going to be killing anyone, OR EVEN LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO RUN AWAY AFTER AOE ******* EVERYONE OFF, because even with nearly 9k hp I have at 78 and fully buffed, I cannot live past a few good nukes, a TSS combo of an equal level glad and some specials from a tyrant or destro.
Even a healer or robe class can out-pot the amount of damage a BD's duals are going to give them, so it's worthless to try and do anything than shoot a bow as far away as possible and keep the party buffs up.
I think it's ridiculous to say that a BD, which is supposed to have SOME tanking and survivability skills should not get some passive updates either in pdef/mdef/combat ability to make them more than a laughingstock of damage output and survivability these days.
If you were to go -Dex and wear IC and try and create a tank-setup BD, which I have seen and tried, you STILL would go down 6x as fast as a real tank with about the same damage output as one because of the lowered attack speed ability.
If you were to go +dex or +str and wear Drac and use a drac bow set-up BD, you are even more of a 1-shot than an archer or other LA class due to the ridiculously low con you will have and the little heavy armour masteries you have would be jack crap.
In addition, you forget a dorf can carry about 3 zillion CP pots even with -9 Con, so even if it's PDEF is only slightly higher, it SHOULD be able to out-pot most damage, especially a WS, while a BD is lucky to be able to hold 100 of each type of CP pots and forget trying to bring more than 1k shots AND blessed shots which you will need if you want hex/powerbreak to land AND a dracbow and arrows. Forget it, even if you were to go +CON.
There are just so many problems with the class, OFC THEY ARE GOOD and NEEDED, but that doesn't mean they don't need some changes made and it's perfectly reasonable to ask for some passive changes at the very least.
On my dagger, I can often kill an equal level BD/SWS easily, and honestly, I should not be able to do that.
If BD got all 74 levels of heavy armor mastery, they would have to take away the crit damage reduction. You can't have both. If BD had both, there would be no need for tanks, because a BD would be favorable. BD used to be the main tank in any party aside from raid bosses back in C4, and it sucked for true tank classes because there was no reason to party us.
I have a better idea: Give SK all the BD dances, and erase BD. :)
How is it whinning for something extra when all they have is party buffs and basically NOTHING else to do damage or take damage in pvp with?
because the purpose of a *bard* is to buff the party and nothing else. feel lucky nc gave you heavy armor in the first place.
I already explained the crit damage and how it's a set fraction of 3% crit reduction at the lv.15 level the BDs get, which is really insignificant at this point with the amount of damage heavy-dealing crit classes are able to give out now.
So, yea, it's something, but I would take the increased pdef over that anyday, because overall the p.def ends up being better in the end.
so you'd purposely gimp yourself? where are you finding this magical 3% stat because it feels like a ton more when i pull my sws out of the freezer.
Sure, BDs are cool in mass pvp and can cause some confusion by running into the fray and aoe poisioning, hex/powerbreaking people and using medusa, but they are not going to be killing anyone, OR EVEN LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO RUN AWAY AFTER AOE ******* EVERYONE OFF, because even with nearly 9k hp I have at 78 and fully buffed, I cannot live past a few good nukes, a TSS combo of an equal level glad and some specials from a tyrant or destro.
isn't the point of a bd party support and not to kill in the first place? you have enough damage to take out any squishies that get to the rear with your own support. and let's be honest...what class out there *can* live through a nuker barrage and a bison tyrant and a frenzied destro??
Even a healer or robe class can out-pot the amount of damage a BD's duals are going to give them, so it's worthless to try and do anything than shoot a bow as far away as possible and keep the party buffs up.
I think it's ridiculous to say that a BD, which is supposed to have SOME tanking and survivability skills should not get some passive updates either in pdef/mdef/combat ability to make them more than a laughingstock of damage output and survivability these days.
If you were to go -Dex and wear IC and try and create a tank-setup BD, which I have seen and tried, you STILL would go down 6x as fast as a real tank with about the same damage output as one because of the lowered attack speed ability.
If you were to go +dex or +str and wear Drac and use a drac bow set-up BD, you are even more of a 1-shot than an archer or other LA class due to the ridiculously low con you will have and the little heavy armour masteries you have would be jack crap.
In addition, you forget a dorf can carry about 3 zillion CP pots even with -9 Con, so even if it's PDEF is only slightly higher, it SHOULD be able to out-pot most damage, especially a WS, while a BD is lucky to be able to hold 100 of each type of CP pots and forget trying to bring more than 1k shots AND blessed shots which you will need if you want hex/powerbreak to land AND a dracbow and arrows. Forget it, even if you were to go +CON.
There are just so many problems with the class, OFC THEY ARE GOOD and NEEDED, but that doesn't mean they don't need some changes made and it's perfectly reasonable to ask for some passive changes at the very least.
well, let's look at things from a sws's's's point of view, shall we? no hex. no power break. no dance of medusa. song of hunter and song of earth compared to the 10+ useful songs bd's get. much less str. one more point of dex. no sting. and let's not forget all of the homosexual jokes they have to deal with.
On my dagger, I can often kill an equal level BD/SWS easily, and honestly, I should not be able to do that.
umm...considering daggers are supposed to be the is-all be-all pvp class...yes you should be able to do that. a dagger killed a gm in the pts.
- rep awy. - rep away darlings. <3
i don't negative rep people because i'm not 12.
the thing that no one is taking into account, is that, from a party leader's point of view, all the extra damage from dances are attributed to the bd...not the actual people who are doing the extra damage. from a party leader's point of view, a bd is the absolute most damage dealing character in the game because of how much extra output they let a party incur.
but here's an idea:
let's give bd's tank heavy mastery up until level 74. then let's give them 1hand mastery so they can use their new level 4 shield mastery and dance without switching to duals. then let's give them an extra 400 m.def so they can deal with nukers. let's also not forget to give them invo to be able to spam all the skills they want. on top of that, let's give them 1 extra con at each skill block so that they can carry more stuff and have more hp/cp/stun resist...ignoring the fact that their s duals give them mana up + health + cp up. then let's give them the hide ability that daggers will get in gracia final so that they can gank the light armor classes with their new fatal strike passive ability that procs on any weapon they should choose to equip.
well hell, why don't we just make every bd a gm? that'd solve it. i like that idea. /signed
well, let's look at things from a sws's's's point of view, shall we? no hex. no power break. no dance of medusa. song of hunter and song of earth compared to the 10+ useful songs bd's get. much less str. one more point of dex. no sting. and let's not forget all of the homosexual jokes they have to deal with.
Okay. You wanna turn this into a SWS vs. BD fight? Lemme guess, your sws is 6x or something and OMG BD HAS MUCH BETTER DANCES SO... BD > SWS!
Wrong. 79 SWS > 79 BD by far. Ask any pvp party or high level exp party, the SWS will be doing 6+ songs and the BD may do 4 max or so.
Just Song of Silence is 10x better than Fury, Fire, Warrior AND Medusa. And honestly, I think SWS needs an update too, just like they BD they need some defensive changes at the very least.
"et's give bd's tank heavy mastery up until level 74. then let's give them 1hand mastery so they can use their new level 4 shield mastery and dance without switching to duals. then let's give them an extra 400 m.def so they can deal with nukers. let's also not forget to give them invo to be able to spam all the skills they want. on top of that, let's give them 1 extra con at each skill block so that they can carry more stuff and have more hp/cp/stun resist...ignoring the fact that their s duals give them mana up + health + cp up. then let's give them the hide ability that daggers will get in gracia final so that they can gank the light armor classes with their new fatal strike passive ability that procs on any weapon they should choose to equip.
well hell, why don't we just make every bd a gm? that'd solve it. i like that idea. /signed
Uh huh. Did you only learn how to argue through the use of fallicies? Because you're not convincing anyone. Nice straw man you built there, but that wasn't my argument at all. I don't think asking for SOME kind of passive update to help BD/SWS cope with some of the crazy damage that elemental augmentation gives, along with the strong 80+ skills and abilities most of the other classes are getting. BD/SWS are getting NOTHING to even out the gap, the gap just keeps widening.
What does BD get for 80+? Nothing. Nothing at all. They get the bubble skill every class gets at 80, and at 81 they get the 3 protection passives that many of the others classes get at 81, in addition to other skills. And 83+? Nope. Still nothing. They get another dance that has a half-hour cooldown for a 15-second dance, much like dance of bladestorm, the sws version being 10x better and more convenient.
I hardly am asking to turn BD into the dark elven glad, nor do I think they need any ridiculous skills, because they are ofc, a buffer these days, but it is fair to ask for something. Really, you think a BD/SWS lv. 2 archery resist buff they got when they were a palace knight is gonig to do jack **** to an 83 archer's quadruple shot? I don't see why it's SO OUTRAGEOUS that when a BD says their class is gimped, it's met with rage. It's the truth, and just because they make every other class better doesn't mean the BD itself doesn't need some sort-of change. It doesn't have to be drastic by any means, but ofc, no wai...like I said. BD MAKES ME HIT FAST AND CRIT A LOT. SO BD= FINE. Hmm...that's the same outlook that has turned so many live PP's away from playing their class either.
With that outlook, goodluck finding any BDs willing to party/help you out in the coming chronicles.
isn't the point of a bd party support and not to kill in the first place? you have enough damage to take out any squishies that get to the rear with your own support. and let's be honest...what class out there *can* live through a nuker barrage and a bison tyrant and a frenzied destro??
Really? But I thought BD was SUCH a strong DD and didn't need any changes? Now they are just meant for buffing? You just contradicted yourself there.
And if you're wondering where I got the info for crit dmg reduction for heavy armour, try looking at l2 b lah once in a while. You don't have to grow any balls and actually post there, but you can read the info that is there. There is an entire sticky on the subclass skills and the effects of them. The tank skill crit dmg reduction information is all there.
Stop trying to get the last word in. Roll a BD to 78 or get your SWS up to 78 and then come tell me how much you enjoy it and how it's perfectly fine the way it is.
i'm sorry you feel that the most in-demand class in the game isn't good enough for you.
i'm sorry that you can't understand that the point of SUPPORT is to SUPPORT by both buffing and protection of the squishies. i'm also sorry that you're not well enough versed in forensics to follow everyone who is telling you the same thing i am.
i'm sorry that you feel that having insane damage for a support class just isn't quite enough.
i'm sorry that you feel that i'm being unfair with my assessments but your own perception is rather skewed.
i'm sorry that you feel that having four insanely great dances isn't as good as having to sing 6 songs just to pull your own weight.
i'm sorry that you feel the need to boo-hoo on forums that you're not happy with your class.
i'm sorry that you're so jealous of sws.
i'm sorry that you feel the need to use such foul imagery to describe people who post here instead of the botter forum.
mostly...i'm sorry that i actually started to go back and forth with someone over the internet thinking that presenting the facts would make a difference.
heh btw dance of berserker sounds like a joke to me... why u have to get to lvl 83 for that?? any profet can buff u with that some millions of xp earlier!!
heh btw dance of berserker sounds like a joke to me... why u have to get to lvl 83 for that?? any profet can buff u with that some millions of xp earlier!!
http://www.lineage2.com/images/skill_icons/skill1062.jpg- Beserker Spirit- Temporarily reduces P. Def., M. Def. and Evasion while increasing P. Atk., M. Atk., Atk. Spd., Casting Spd. and Speed. Can be used on party members. Effect 2.
Prophets lose... character deletion process underway
Thats kinda messed up for OL's, I think they get a death whisper clan buff at 77, thats alot of sp they can just save for other stuff lol.
Edit: What is up with ppl QQing about pdef of BD/SWS, Nana already proved they have equal pdef to all warriors, with crit reduction added for bonus. Why ask for more when you have something that is already better?
I think the major points of BD players going "give us some good skills" is about the problem that at high levels - apart from that lvl 83 "I can buff zerk now" skill (of which we do not know the cooldown and duration, maybe it is the usual 15s duration / 5 min cooldown crap), a BD does not get any worthwhile skills. 77 is good, 78 is useful, 79 is crap because of the cooldown, 80 is crap, 81 is just the usual stuff everybody gets, 82 same. So as soon as you have your 78 skills, there pretty much is nothing to look forward to from 79 to 83. Which, let's face it, is for a non-botting player a LONG time. Basically, it is "game over". Add to that that at high levels, sws>bd. Usually, the BD gets to hear "you do fire/fury", and the sws does the rest. The sws actually HAS high level songs which get used all the time - renewal, wind storm, elemental, champion, meditation. All good stuff. BD gets to use shadow sometimes, and Siren if it's a nuker party. And Song of Silence > Medusa. Basically, in 99% of the situations the BD gets to do 58- dances and then hits the mobs, that's it. Yes, it is easy to get a party because those lvl 58- skills are GOOD and needed, but it still feels as if it is kind of pointless to lvl up. Still, I like the class. I'd just like some more skills which I can actually USE.
I think the major points of BD players going "give us some good skills" is about the problem that at high levels - apart from that lvl 83 "I can buff zerk now" skill (of which we do not know the cooldown and duration, maybe it is the usual 15s duration / 5 min cooldown crap), a BD does not get any worthwhile skills. 77 is good, 78 is useful, 79 is crap because of the cooldown, 80 is crap, 81 is just the usual stuff everybody gets, 82 same. So as soon as you have your 78 skills, there pretty much is nothing to look forward to from 79 to 83. Which, let's face it, is for a non-botting player a LONG time. Basically, it is "game over". Add to that that at high levels, sws>bd. Usually, the BD gets to hear "you do fire/fury", and the sws does the rest. The sws actually HAS high level songs which get used all the time - renewal, wind storm, elemental, champion, meditation. All good stuff. BD gets to use shadow sometimes, and Siren if it's a nuker party. And Song of Silence > Medusa. Basically, in 99% of the situations the BD gets to do 58- dances and then hits the mobs, that's it. Yes, it is easy to get a party because those lvl 58- skills are GOOD and needed, but it still feels as if it is kind of pointless to lvl up. Still, I like the class. I'd just like some more skills which I can actually USE.
So basically instead of asking for crazy boosts, you just want a purpose to level.
Huh, berserker is buff on BIG question. Yes it is good for pve (usually), but as fighter I will not want to have berserker on when I face nuker as enemy...
-16% to m.def hurts.
Dont know about berserker dance numbers but believe they are similar to prophet berserker buff.
Huh, berserker is buff on BIG question. Yes it is good for pve (usually), but as fighter I will not want to have berserker on when I face nuker as enemy...
-16% to m.def hurts.
Dont know about berserker dance numbers but believe they are similar to prophet berserker buff.
since the effects are identical the stat-difference probably is as well
So basically instead of asking for crazy boosts, you just want a purpose to level.
Pretty much. Well, not for me - I only have a BD sub, so when I hit 80 in a level, the only reason for me to xp is to enchant skills. But if the BD was my main, I most definitely would ask myself why I should spend another year or two to lvl up to 83+ without any cool skills at all for my class. Just being high lvl and getting the option for S82 armor etc is not incentive enough, other classes can have that, too AND get cool skills.
Just being high lvl and getting the option for S82 armor etc is not incentive enough, other classes can have that, too AND get cool skills.
QFT.
I guess you have summed it up better than me Varaya, I suppose I am more passionate about my dissapointment in my class because, like you said, it is my main, and I have placed so much time and effort into it, only to find the higher level it gets, I really feel unsatisfied and even unhappy when I play it.
If some people enjoy it, and think it is perfectly fine the way it is, then kudos to them. I guess I am just not masochistic enough ^__^
I guess you have summed it up better than me Varaya, I suppose I am more passionate about my dissapointment in my class because, like you said, it is my main, and I have placed so much time and effort into it, only to find the higher level it gets, I really feel unsatisfied and even unhappy when I play it.
If some people enjoy it, and think it is perfectly fine the way it is, then kudos to them. I guess I am just not masochistic enough ^__^
i'll "qft" when you stop with the "qq's" and the "boo-hoos."
what you're failing to realize is that you get your amazing skills before you're even a grade. gee...i wish i got shield slam, touch of life, and knighthood before i was 61.
i'll "qft" when you stop with the "qq's" and the "boo-hoos."
what you're failing to realize is that you get your amazing skills before you're even a grade. gee...i wish i got shield slam, touch of life, and knighthood before i was 61.
Really? You wish you had ALL your good end-game skills you will ever use in A-grade?
What's the point of playing past a-grade then if you're already got all the skills you will ever need? I would assume you would level all the way up to 77 just so you can look foreward to getting Shield Slam. If you got nothing or what you knew would be nothing, why would you even waste you time?
Seriously. What is your problem. You seem like the one that is butthurt by this for no apparent reason. You don't even have or play a BD, so why are you SO ****** that the ones that DO play the class are unsatisfied by it?
All you are doing is keeping me entertained while I am at work with your pointless need to argue.
Pretty much. Well, not for me - I only have a BD sub, so when I hit 80 in a level, the only reason for me to xp is to enchant skills. But if the BD was my main, I most definitely would ask myself why I should spend another year or two to lvl up to 83+ without any cool skills at all for my class. Just being high lvl and getting the option for S82 armor etc is not incentive enough, other classes can have that, too AND get cool skills.
I rolled a BD and I'm fine with it, because I know coming into it that it is support/secondary DD and not WTF!! OMG!! class. I would say they seem a little light on the end game skills; however, most ppl realize that NCSoft has a habit of ******* a class for a few chronicles and then making them much much better. So I'll just keep going along my way and eventually if I dislike it that much I'll sub and play that.
Really? You wish you had ALL your good end-game skills you will ever use in A-grade?
What's the point of playing past a-grade then if you're already got all the skills you will ever need? I would assume you would level all the way up to 77 just so you can look foreward to getting Shield Slam. If you got nothing or what you knew would be nothing, why would you even waste you time?
Seriously. What is your problem. You seem like the one that is butthurt by this for no apparent reason. You don't even have or play a BD, so why are you SO ****** that the ones that DO play the class are unsatisfied by it?
All you are doing is keeping me entertained while I am at work with your pointless need to argue.
yes, i wish i got godly skills at level 58 and below like a bd does.
my incentive to level past 58 (if i did get the skills that early) would be to stack on the levels and be better than everyone else...this *is* a pvp game, you know. did you miss that point?
i've gotten private messages making fun of how much you're crying, by the way.
your incentive to level up higher should be to over-enchant your existing bomb skills and be the best at your class...maybe you missed that point, too?
you'll never hear people saying, "oh gee, i'm sure glad all of my important skills cost me hundreds of millions of sp to get on top of having to oe my basic bread and butter skills!"
you said your job...are you a cryer? i'd imagine you'd be good at it.
Seriously. How old are you really? You gonna resort to flaming because you can't pull out any other arguments anymore?
lulz. GF.
<3
a cryer is the person who stands outside of a circus tent or at a newstand that shouts to get people to come over so that they can interest them in doing business.
also, as far as the troll thing goes, all i did was state that bd's have it relatively good in the l2 food chain and you're the one who took it personally...i give back what i get.
No, Shillien knight does not have the highest pdef if that is what you are asking. All the knight classes get the crit reduction heavy armor masteries. So the 2 humans and the 1 light elf tank get the same type of masteries. In pdef the human tanks win in the end though, thanks to majesty self buff.
For your other question, I think this was proved by Nana earlier in this thread, when he/she posted the pdef stat comparison on a bd and bh equal lvl and equally geared.
Incorrect. Majesty does not increase P.Def as much as Guard Stance (TK/SK) and they both have a higher max P.Def than the human tanks; under equal buff conditions.
But this post was not about the SK or the TK, neither of whom have complained about a low P.Def to my knowing.
What this post is about, is some silly complaint that the BD doesn't benefit from their lvl 15 heavy armor mastery; whch is of course, inane. Look at the gladiator, or the WS, BH... they waste (yes WASTE) SP on 3 levels of heavy armor mastery at every skill level... which, at level 75 gives them a lvl 74 heavy armor master.
Now, for the entertainment, (or just poor engineering by the devs); The BD, at the sane level, with the same armor, and the same buffs. Has a HIGHER P.def than the Glad/WS/BH...
Incorrect. Majesty does not increase P.Def as much as Guard Stance (TK/SK) and they both have a higher max P.Def than the human tanks; under equal buff conditions.
But this post was not about the SK or the TK, neither of whom have complained about a low P.Def to my knowing.
What this post is about, is some silly complaint that the BD doesn't benefit from their lvl 15 heavy armor mastery; whch is of course, inane. Look at the gladiator, or the WS, BH... they waste (yes WASTE) SP on 3 levels of heavy armor mastery at every skill level... which, at level 75 gives them a lvl 74 heavy armor master.
Now, for the entertainment, (or just poor engineering by the devs); The BD, at the sane level, with the same armor, and the same buffs. Has a HIGHER P.def than the Glad/WS/BH...
Yes, sorry, you're correct. I am not sure why I wrote 74.. I was in the middle of a rant and my thoughts got al muddled... thanks for clarifying. ^^
The point remains the same... my long time friend and I play a Duelist, and a Spectral Dnacer... and we always joke about how the Spectral Dancer just has better stats across the board.
Incorrect. Majesty does not increase P.Def as much as Guard Stance (TK/SK) and they both have a higher max P.Def than the human tanks; under equal buff conditions.
But this post was not about the SK or the TK, neither of whom have complained about a low P.Def to my knowing.
What this post is about, is some silly complaint that the BD doesn't benefit from their lvl 15 heavy armor mastery; whch is of course, inane. Look at the gladiator, or the WS, BH... they waste (yes WASTE) SP on 3 levels of heavy armor mastery at every skill level... which, at level 75 gives them a lvl 74 heavy armor master.
Now, for the entertainment, (or just poor engineering by the devs); The BD, at the sane level, with the same armor, and the same buffs. Has a HIGHER P.def than the Glad/WS/BH...
End of disscussion
You are incorrect.
Majesty works on a % of your overall pdef. So in A grade an elven tank with Guard Stance on has more pdef than a human with Majesty. But when you equip IC on both tanks, the human ends up with more pdef because the base amount increases the Majesty buff over what Guard Stance gives. Guard Stance is a static amount, so the better the armor, the more pdef a human will have over us.
can u decide?? is bd's lvl 15 heavy mastery better than heavy mastery lvl 50 or not??
If you only consider pdef, warrior heavy mastery 50 is better than knight heavy mastery 15, because it gives 29 pdef more (50 pdef vs. 79 pdef). I do not know the numbers for crit reduction, because they are not on l2p.
If you only consider pdef, warrior heavy mastery 50 is better than knight heavy mastery 15, because it gives 29 pdef more (50 pdef vs. 79 pdef). I do not know the numbers for crit reduction, because they are not on l2p.
with the main damage function in this game being added crit damage, there's absolutely no question that even a 3% (which, i believe is quite a bit less than what the actual mastery is) is a huge reduction in damage.
also, the argument over guard stance is completely moot now since guard stance is like 65-85 mp per tick now. the only time i ever use it anymore is when i aggro an entire room of reds and train through or to show someone in group just how fast your mp drains and useless guard stance actually is now.
If you only consider pdef, warrior heavy mastery 50 is better than knight heavy mastery 15, because it gives 29 pdef more (50 pdef vs. 79 pdef). I do not know the numbers for crit reduction, because they are not on l2p.
50 pdef and 79 pdef? I could probably get that pdef while wearing no armor at all.
with the main damage function in this game being added crit damage, there's absolutely no question that even a 3% (which, i believe is quite a bit less than what the actual mastery is) is a huge reduction in damage.
True. If I had the choice between 79 pdef bonus or 50 pdef bonus with a 3% crit reduction, I would of course choose the one with crit reduction. And I guess it is probably quite a bit more than 3%.