light is very common, even with all the bot trains which NCsoft pretends don't exist... they don't make up for the lack of high populations.
however, just because 80% of the map has 1-3 people doesn't mean that last 20% isn't well populated.
imagine it like an actual world... some places are densely populated while others are sparse at best.
I heard there are 10 servers in Russian official version of L2, and the 11th server is going to be up soon. (just food for thought)
P.S. The game population on NA/Euro servers directly indicates the efficiency of NCsoft's (NCNA that is) marketing department. Therefore, all the questions should be addressed to its representatives.
The 'light' 'normal' 'heavy' designations are meaningless. NCSoft could redefine the limits for each of them so that they would each show 'heavy' all the time, but that would deter ppl from logging in since most would think that heavy = lag and problems.
The questions ought to be 'is there enough population to have fun'. My answer is a solid YES. However, others would answer no because they seem to need to have more people online to have fun, though this never made sense to me since virtually all of the 'more people' they want will be at other locations in the huge L2 world so they would never be aware of them.
So the game is doing fine, even though naysayers will disagree with me.
I don't think anyone that says the numbers are dwindling is a naysayer... Just look at the actual log in numbers. No server is consistantly above 1400, as stated before, and there are a couple that regularly don't break 1000.
The game at this point is surviving off the popularity through it's current membership. They're struggling to bring in new subscriptions. We may see a rise for a bit with the release of the new update, but as history has repeated itself time and time again I can say with almost absolute certainty that it will dwindle again.
Is the game dead? No. Not even close. Are the numbers dwindling? Yes... but taking into consideration the game is approaching 6 years old, it ain't doin so bad :P Could more be done to help it? Yes. Will it happen? No.
However, others would answer no because they seem to need to have more people online to have fun, though this never made sense to me since virtually all of the 'more people' they want will be at other locations in the huge L2 world so they would never be aware of them.
The way the game is right now is you can pretty much level to 83 and never ever run into a wartag or anything. The game was fun when people had a choice of 2 places to exp and inevitably xp led to open pvp which imo was l2's big selling point, now everybody can go bury themselves in some corner of the map and never deal with gangs etc. Which is boring.
In the so-called lowest population server I get ganked by "wartags-that-aren't-real-wartags" every single day.
I guess I'm (by your standards) "lucky"...
let's see ...
an 80- third class toon can exp in
Hot
Ketra
Varka
IT
MOS
Pagans
FOG
SV
LOA Heart
TOI 9+
WOA Angels
Disciples
Domens
FP
Saints
that's 15 different exp zones
an 80+ toon can exp in
Dino (2 different zones)
HB (5 different zones)
FW/FS
GC
MM
CoD
IOP
That's another 7 areas, some of them vast
Nobody goes on a 22 area gang looking for S Graders+, in the old days you had a choice of a) Loa bridges or b) Toi if you were endgame THAT was constant gangs, now it's easy mode go hide in one of 22 different exp zones ... all that for hmm maybe 600 people per server (discounting shops/boxes).
(...). The game was fun when people had a choice of 2 places to exp and inevitably xp led to open pvp which imo was l2's big selling point, now everybody can go bury themselves in some corner of the map and never deal with gangs etc. Which is boring.
that would have been more fun, if we didnt had to fight (an loose to) those who bot. And that made many many ppl quit. Now we have to deal with a much less population. And its somewhat ironic that many of these playas now complain about "dead servers".
I heard there are 10 servers in Russian official version of L2, and the 11th server is going to be up soon. (just food for thought)
P.S. The game population on NA/Euro servers directly indicates the efficiency of NCsoft's (NCNA that is) marketing department. Therefore, all the questions should be addressed to its representatives.
Has nothing to do with Marketing.
The game once had a nice population. They left for a couple of obvious reasons, and some that aren't so obvious.
Hot
Ketra
Varka
IT
MOS
Pagans
FOG
SV
LOA Heart
TOI 9+
WOA Angels
Disciples
Domens
FP
Saints
that's 15 different exp zones
an 80+ toon can exp in
Dino (2 different zones)
HB (5 different zones)
FW/FS
GC
MM
CoD
IOP
That's another 7 areas, some of them vast
Nobody goes on a 22 area gang looking for S Graders+, in the old days you had a choice of a) Loa bridges or b) Toi if you were endgame THAT was constant gangs, now it's easy mode go hide in one of 22 different exp zones ... all that for hmm maybe 600 people per server (discounting shops/boxes).
Yeah right ... Exp is hard!!!
Dino is basically 78+. An SH with a 80 Wind Mace can 2 shot every MOB and 1 shot the groups with Tempest.
Lol. XP is crap too, but I guess that's made up by the fact that you can literally never run out of mana with the amount of herbs dropping there.
XPing is not hard, but it's extremely monotanous. Hard is the wrong word, boring is the right word. Lineage II is largely a boring game to play, because it makes even the most enthusiastic player feel like a farmer.
The population shrink is not as simple as it may seem. People left because of bots, server monopolizations, game imbalances, etc. etc. and then others left because the population is getting to a point where the game can barely sustain itself (these types of games depend on decent populations). As long as there aren't a factorable amount of new players coming to the game the population will continue to shrink over time. It's the MMORPG life cycle.
Nobody goes on a 22 area gang looking for S Graders+
hmmm. still I get attacked at least once a weekday evening by people that we don't have wars with but still want to go red on me for some reason.
Maybe i'm "lucky" or maybe it has something to do with all those NG toons standing at all the ports.
Either way, your premise is that the world is too big and there are too few people in it which makes it hard to find PvP is wrong from my experience. I don't want random PvP, much less *******s that attack me while in a fight with mobs, yet it seems to find me on a regular basis.
Probably you hunt in obvious, a noble port away places.
Places like base tower which take 20 minutes to simply scout if an enemy is there is pretty time consuming to gank, but typically quite worth it.
If I was able to get to those out of the way, high level places I would. A level 79 FS isn't usually welcome there but I seem to be very popular of late in the new areas because I can spoil up S80 mats.
The game devs broke off of their original plans to bring lineage 2 into lineage 1
they started winging it. After c3 the game went downhill, and the devs did nothing about it but continue with their plans to make some alternate timelined Lineage.
I have blamed advertising for three years, I dont think its the game play, the ardourous grinding was a stable diet to the game, making it easy i feel was a bittersweet effect, I dont think its what they needed to do to save this game.
1. quest xp awards would have helped
I think making rewards for clan members helped, and if they would have released rewards 2 to 3 Chronicles earlier, when people where asking for them, i think this game would have been saved.
I also feel they should have had personal customizations to castles, castle owning events added to territories, and made seige weoponry useful by updating the mechanics could have aided in saving the game.
This game didnt have to go down like it is.
but a great example to whats happening is this
Lineage II players got a horse to play with on the pts
weve been asking for new mounts for a while now.
but they just wanted to show you you "could" of had something
but your not going to have it, its as if the players arent deemed worthy to
get a fair deal. "Almost" seems good enough.
looking at the numbers wouldn't it be safe to assume a merge of franz with luna is in order ?
doubt luna ever has over 700 players.
more players on a server = more fun , more fun more subscriptions , more subscriptions more money for you ncsoft .
less servers also means a reduction of costs in maintenance and hardware . does the profit really justify the costs for bandwidth and maintenance of a server that never goes over 700 players(luna)?
looking at the numbers wouldn't it be safe to assume a merge of franz with luna is in order ?
doubt luna ever has over 700 players.
"now, at 4 A.M. gmt"
its so boring, if a new player starts playing he has nothing to do except leveling... i would love to see like shops at gludio or even dion and all that stuff, but its gone long time ago
I believe nscoft should first face any lag issues and then merge servers
noone likes to pay a game that cant enjoy.
Chatting with old players who quit i always hear the same
''why to play again?i've seen that this game isnt fair
no matter how many lvls you go(and you usually cant go max lvl if you dont bot or if you dont have oop high slaves)
no matter how active you will be in the clan youll join,all the good stuff will go to ebayers/botters and leaders'friends.
and you''ll have to spend hours of your life everyday on pc without having the satisfaction that if you r playing good you'll win''
L2 is a huge game but nscoft adds new content in such way that even the most hard core(but legit)player cant reach.
All in game up to A grade(even up to s grade i dare to say)has no more value,then also -78 toons have no value.
Or even worse,new content has added but only in papers...like
Fashion items, hats/agathions ect....,an friend logged some time ago to take a look and decide if he wants to play again..he saw someone with the tall black hat and asked me how to get one,told him it was an event reward,cant be traded and it will expire.....aahh kk he told me bb.
I was trying to get an angel agathion when introduced,after 4 fails and all the money i've lost i simply got mad.
Result is the same,you open a l2 fashion site and you see 1000 items,you try to get them in game and you cant.
Like the +81 skills that require books that drop from epic bosses(with bad drop rate)so only the big clan's leader+friends will have their 81-82lvl skills
Leveling toons that will never take their skills,isnt odd?
Like icarus weapons that they suppose to have quests to be farmed but only in papers,in reality these q dont work.
Like stones for 300 weap that need so many months to collect(or maybe years?)
And ofc like epics jewls,that we still miss.
L2 is a whole world with closed doors for most of the players,may the doors open!
L2 is a whole world with closed doors for most of the players,may the doors open!
The door begin to open, before it was so hard to get noblesse, now is easy :D
Is more easy to get leonard, stones, adamantine, oriculum, alliance 5 with ketra or varka with the last update :)
But yes the main problem of l2 is bad management of ncsoft against the cheaters it is why luna have only 600 people and why i wait luna population down to less 100 people, so with less 100 people luna can be merged with the server we want :)
Its just bad advertising imho... I really think this game could pick up if they actually advertised it.
Also about Russia's servers last I heard they were free to play and you could buy your way to the top *Legitly*. You can do that here Ebaying, but at least its "banable here.
If NC would just advertise a little bit I could honestly see it improving. Also about the mounts that we can't have... Thats stupid, why even put them in the PTS if we can't have them... Thats like a slap in the face, showing us what we could have then taking it away...
So long and short, Advertise, when the server population is on the rise slightly, do an event lowbies can get in on, and give the low guys a little boost. Give the quests a bigger exp boost for the people that <3 questing... They aren't really hard things to do... But for NC I guess they are. I've never heard anything from Lyzria or w/e her name is about the lack of advertising, doubt we ever will...
Also people like this here do it too... For god sakes when the whole community is negative and constantly whines about things that are going on it does nothing for anybody except put them in a down mood. I've seen multiple posts from returning players, or new players where people blatantly tell them to quit before they start. Why? Its stupid to turn people away so quickly.
brb looking for the 500 afk shops in giran *rolleyes*
pretty funny is that even in the darkest night luna has 600 ppl on guess the russian never sleep eh ;) count 100 shops in giran and ur left with 500 bots not too bad just round 50 9 ppl trains
Merge all NA servers.
If not all of them, then merge bartz with phx.
It will not happen.
RTFM, ffs!
Merges are only possible between the servers that are physically located next to each other, i.e. Bartz+Sayha and Phoenix+Devianne.
No other ways around.
Chatting with old players who quit i always hear the same
''why to play again?i've seen that this game isnt fair
no matter how many lvls you go(and you usually cant go max lvl if you dont bot or if you dont have oop high slaves)
no matter how active you will be in the clan youll join,all the good stuff will go to ebayers/botters and leaders'friends.
and you''ll have to spend hours of your life everyday on pc without having the satisfaction that if you r playing good you'll win''
As an active veteran player I can confirm everything said above.
In the early chronicles, it was still possible to play legitimately and reach the level cap.
Being outgeared by ebayers, I could still beat some of them regularly.
Being in a 100% legit clan, I could enjoy fighting clan wars (not the "war of robots", like these days), taking the castles and raiding epic bosses.
Nowadays, the gap between casual players and so-called "powergamers" is getting wider and wider both in the terms of levels and equipment, and it seems impossible to catch up and taste the end-game content unless you belong to a top clan... and I have yet to hear about a top clan that is not based on rampant cheating.
As an active veteran player I can confirm everything said above.
In the early chronicles, it was still possible to play legitimately and reach the level cap.
Being outgeared by ebayers, I could still beat some of them regularly.
Being in a 100% legit clan, I could enjoy fighting clan wars (not the "war of robots", like these days), taking the castles and raiding epic bosses.
Nowadays, the gap between casual players and so-called "powergamers" is getting wider and wider both in the terms of levels and equipment, and it seems impossible to catch up and taste the end-game content unless you belong to a top clan... and I have yet to hear about a top clan that is not based on rampant cheating.
+1
But actually, those numbers are higher than what i was expecting.
Perhaps the reactivation of old accounts brought more logins, i was expecting like 80% tops of what i have seen.
This game is not dying of old age, it is hugely popular there are many servers where ppl pay more, get tons of bugs, frequent wipes, but where bots are not allowed, so that can compensate for all that.
Untill bot problem is not solved, the game will continue to do badly HERE, but will flourish some other places.
The licensing idea is great, if NCWest cant police the servers, sell the business to someone who can. Impotence to get rid of the cheaters is killing the game, notsocatastrophic numbers to report this quarter versus catastrophic but with hope to grow, NCWest always choses first one. Untill they hold their breath and dive in the unknown (for them) waters of ban at first sight for any bot and blocking login of bots, the game will lose population.
Ban all bots, put announcements in all private servers that bots have been banned, no more allowed (no need of announcing they will find out even when decision has been made, really), offer a substantial reduction in fees for 1-3 months and the servers will all be heavy in a matter of weeks.
But there is no will to do it.
M
i would srsly be shocked if id see a commercial from ncosft i would be like omg look this is what im playing u should try it and ...
also like rewards for the lottery or mdt races should be higher or add some like cool stuff to it so ppl would actually play it
well i would cuz i love it, but nobody seems to care, only leveling
I believe nscoft should first face any lag issues and then merge servers
noone likes to pay a game that cant enjoy.
Chatting with old players who quit i always hear the same
''why to play again?i've seen that this game isnt fair
no matter how many lvls you go(and you usually cant go max lvl if you dont bot or if you dont have oop high slaves)
no matter how active you will be in the clan youll join,all the good stuff will go to ebayers/botters and leaders'friends.
and you''ll have to spend hours of your life everyday on pc without having the satisfaction that if you r playing good you'll win''
L2 is a huge game but nscoft adds new content in such way that even the most hard core(but legit)player cant reach.
All in game up to A grade(even up to s grade i dare to say)has no more value,then also -78 toons have no value.
Or even worse,new content has added but only in papers...like
Fashion items, hats/agathions ect....,an friend logged some time ago to take a look and decide if he wants to play again..he saw someone with the tall black hat and asked me how to get one,told him it was an event reward,cant be traded and it will expire.....aahh kk he told me bb.
I was trying to get an angel agathion when introduced,after 4 fails and all the money i've lost i simply got mad.
Result is the same,you open a l2 fashion site and you see 1000 items,you try to get them in game and you cant.
Like the +81 skills that require books that drop from epic bosses(with bad drop rate)so only the big clan's leader+friends will have their 81-82lvl skills
Leveling toons that will never take their skills,isnt odd?
Like icarus weapons that they suppose to have quests to be farmed but only in papers,in reality these q dont work.
Like stones for 300 weap that need so many months to collect(or maybe years?)
And ofc like epics jewls,that we still miss.
L2 is a whole world with closed doors for most of the players,may the doors open!
Wow.
Best post ever that describes the issues of the game.
with regards to icarus weapons well the mats are spoilable in the 82+ mobs fields at Heine and there are quests u can do like farming in stakato nest for the recs so no need to be in an endgame clan for that
Dino is basically 78+. An SH with a 80 Wind Mace can 2 shot every MOB and 1 shot the groups with Tempest.
Lol. XP is crap too, but I guess that's made up by the fact that you can literally never run out of mana with the amount of herbs dropping there.
did you try the nest? that's where the exp is... and btw for StS it's 1 nuke all mobs. 2 nukes are indeed kinda lot for so little exp.
XPing is not hard, but it's extremely monotanous. Hard is the wrong word, boring is the right word. Lineage II is largely a boring game to play, because it makes even the most enthusiastic player feel like a farmer.
if it's so monotanous and boring, you can watch a movie in a small window - it sure helps
Its just bad advertising imho... I really think this game could pick up if they actually advertised it.
Also about Russia's servers last I heard they were free to play and you could buy your way to the top *Legitly*. You can do that here Ebaying, but at least its "banable here.
i think there are 3 parts to this popularity, which are absent in NA/Euro version and can't be replaced with advertising.
first is the fact that l2 was the only game on the market for a long time due to the abundance of illegal servers. hence every town had a few of those servers and virtually everyone knew about this game. then the official server emerges and a lot of people go there because they are tired from the bugs of illegal shards.
the second thing is the 2x rate for premium accounts (which can be viewed as regular subscription price). people can exp to the fun parts much faster... which is important because everyone is already fed up with most of the content, so it's not fun to exp at 1x rates anymore.
and the last thing, free to play with 1x rates - brings more people and thus fun into the game.
i think there are 3 parts to this popularity, which are absent in NA/Euro version and can't be replaced with advertising.
first is the fact that l2 was the only game on the market for a long time due to the abundance of illegal servers. hence every town had a few of those servers and virtually everyone knew about this game. then the official server emerges and a lot of people go there because they are tired from the bugs of illegal shards.
the second thing is the 2x rate for premium accounts (which can be viewed as regular subscription price). people can exp to the fun parts much faster... which is important because everyone is already fed up with most of the content, so it's not fun to exp at 1x rates anymore.
and the last thing, free to play with 1x rates - brings more people and thus fun into the game.
I was wondering if i should come back after this free week and well here are my thoughts.
The message board feels different alot of the old people have moved on and i don't feel the same level of energy it once had: A day in the life of Jute, Darkmotion, Stabby McStoo. Names that would bring a twinkle to a persons eyes
The staff has changed hands so many times i just don't feel connected to them as i once was.
A few parts of the website and game have gone untouched for way to long like the "Spotlight" section an area which fleshed out a community feeling between NC and the Player. And the in-game community board an area that i have for countless times asked why they don't use it as a resource to inform the ingame player. Of course NC's response has always been "thats a great idea we will look into it" and have done nothing three years later.
I was against the idea of a merger, but walking around my home town of Elmore. It wasn't enough.... The paths of Elmore are empty!
Merges are only possible between the servers that are physically located next to each other, i.e. Bartz+Sayha and Phoenix+Devianne.
No other ways around.
Then merge all servers place them smack dab in the middle of the US and call it done.
did you try the nest? that's where the exp is... and btw for StS it's 1 nuke all mobs. 2 nukes are indeed kinda lot for so little exp.
I said 2 Nukes on a StS with an 80 Attribute Mace. Read.
On a Soultaker with 150 Dark Mace most of those mobs are 1 shotted.
I can 1 shot most of the group MOBs with Corpse Burst, and that's non-attributed.
if it's so monotanous and boring, you can watch a movie in a small window - it sure helps
No, I actually manually clicked and killed my MOBs.
No, I actually manually clicked and killed my MOBs.
I do too, that's why I watch in a SMALL window (most software video players allow for always on top which works ok with windowed mode) so that i can still click my mobs over the rest of a screen
makes time spent mindlessly clicking mobs not as pointless, plus it makes times spend watching mindless tv/movies not as pointless.. two hares in a one shot
3 pages already and no response of NCSoft or any other community manager...
I'd be surprised if anyone even does in this thread. There have been threads like this before. Personally if they even answered about the lack of advertising I'd be incredibly happy about it. They have to have some reason for not doing it.
When I log into L2, I can usually find a decent party. Does it take up to 30 minutes to find one? Yes. Did it take all of 30 seconds to find one when L2 first started? Yes again. Is the entire population of L2 going to disappear because we can't find each other? No, never.
Remember Christmas as a child? You got wonderful toys. For the next 1-4 weeks, they will be fun. After that, you will play with them once in a while, but maybe not as often as you originally did. That's what happened to L2. It was fun when there were thousands of people when it was first released. When your toys get old, did you burn them? No, you just didn't play as often. That's what's happening to L2. The entire population won't quit, but not everyone will love it. It's not packed. There isn't as much PvP. Many carebears. Can we deal with it? Yes. We've dealt with it for several years, with more to come.
When I log into L2, I can usually find a decent party. Does it take up to 30 minutes to find one? Yes. Did it take all of 30 seconds to find one when L2 first started? Yes again. Is the entire population of L2 going to disappear because we can't find each other? No, never.
Remember Christmas as a child? You got wonderful toys. For the next 1-4 weeks, they will be fun. After that, you will play with them once in a while, but maybe not as often as you originally did. That's what happened to L2. It was fun when there were thousands of people when it was first released. When your toys get old, did you burn them? No, you just didn't play as often. That's what's happening to L2. The entire population won't quit, but not everyone will love it. It's not packed. There isn't as much PvP. Many carebears. Can we deal with it? Yes. We've dealt with it for several years, with more to come.
lets not kid ourselves, the people who stay are outgearing and outgunning the people who are weekend warrior types.
its not fun to log in, try pvp, get owned, and realize you cannot climb that ladder.
theres not as much pvp anymore because of the gap created by bots and the no-life club. such gaps do not exist in wow or other games that require less time put in to get to competitive levels.
in conclusion L2 will never be what it once was until that gap of gear and level can be bridged by casual players.
lets not kid ourselves, the people who stay are outgearing and outgunning the people who are weekend warrior types.
its not fun to log in, try pvp, get owned, and realize you cannot climb that ladder.
theres not as much pvp anymore because of the gap created by bots and the no-life club. such gaps do not exist in wow or other games that require less time put in to get to competitive levels.
in conclusion L2 will never be what it once was until that gap of gear and level can be bridged by casual players.
This is very true. But those who defend the way L2 plays with deny this, yet they are curious why new players don't come to the game. The reasons should be obvious. L2 always had this problem were it tries to not be a video game but a lifestyle. Which is a big issue. To climb the ladder you need to practically give up your outside life to do it or bot. Now I know some people will quote this post and say its not true, everything in L2 is perfectly achievable by legit players (read my sig). To stop you in your tracks, tell me how long that will take for the average person who is not willing to give up 6-8 hours of their day to grind. Who is not willing to give up 5-7 days out of the week to grind. Yeah....
L2 would see a surge of subscriptions IF they changed the grind to fit a casual audience. Its idiotic to want more players to join when its completely aimed towards one type of player. WoW works because content is accessible by casual and hardcore players. You don't have to play 8 hours a day to raid in WoW. You just can raid once or twice per week.
In L2 everything you do requires you to give up a portion of your life or cheat. Which is why cheating is rampant in this game. If content and other things were achievable by the player without dedicating 85% of his/her time to the game, then cheating would be minimum. In Korea mmorpgs are a lifestyle. In NA/EU they are not, they are just games.
L2 attempts to blur the line between real life and game life. It has been its biggest issue since day one and will continue to be it until they make a change. And to those who will defend how great L2 is, how they like how its so hard and feels rewarding. All the power to you as you watch the population dwindle and dwindle until there is only two servers and then one server.
To stop you in your tracks, tell me how long that will take for the average person who is not willing to give up 6-8 hours of their day to grind. Who is not willing to give up 5-7 days out of the week to grind. Yeah....
This is very true. But those who defend the way L2 plays with deny this, yet they are curious why new players don't come to the game. The reasons should be obvious. L2 always had this problem were it tries to not be a video game but a lifestyle. Which is a big issue. To climb the ladder you need to practically give up your outside life to do it or bot. Now I know some people will quote this post and say its not true, everything in L2 is perfectly achievable by legit players (read my sig). To stop you in your tracks, tell me how long that will take for the average person who is not willing to give up 6-8 hours of their day to grind. Who is not willing to give up 5-7 days out of the week to grind. Yeah....
L2 would see a surge of subscriptions IF they changed the grind to fit a casual audience. Its idiotic to want more players to join when its completely aimed towards one type of player. WoW works because content is accessible by casual and hardcore players. You don't have to play 8 hours a day to raid in WoW. You just can raid once or twice per week.
In L2 everything you do requires you to give up a portion of your life or cheat. Which is why cheating is rampant in this game. If content and other things were achievable by the player without dedicating 85% of his/her time to the game, then cheating would be minimum. In Korea mmorpgs are a lifestyle. In NA/EU they are not, they are just games.
L2 attempts to blur the line between real life and game life. It has been its biggest issue since day one and will continue to be it until they make a change. And to those who will defend how great L2 is, how they like how its so hard and feels rewarding. All the power to you as you watch the population dwindle and dwindle until there is only two servers and then one server.
1. I play 4 years to get level 78. Max average 1 hour a day. I am ingame more, but level average that. If it was like in c1 i would have been level 65 or so. So a change has been done.
2. I agree only hardcore players will be successfull, but this applies to all games. And WoW is easy, that is why ppl play it much less years than L2. Here, we have casual WoW players too, they are the cheaters that get fast max level and get bored in a few months. Real players are here for years. If there werent the cheaters, much more players would have been in. Like in russian servers or something.
3. Here you can raid every day. It gives exp, gear and vita.
4. Every game requires you to give a portion of your life, even solitaire. It is a form of entertainment, every entertainment has a price, at least the time you spend on it.
There are plenty of things to discover at low levels, nowadays it is really fast, not 2 months to level 25 like in c1, but 2 hours. For some ppl games start at last level, there is no joy till they can't "pwn" everybody. Yeah, L2 is not for them, but they cheat here anyway.
There are plenty of easy games, dont change l2, only eliminate cheating and the game will be very lively.
M
I agree with M. I do think that the game would be more fun and people wouldn't mind the grind if the cheaters that have a toon for 1 month and are max lvl were removed. They ruin the game for all the legit players. I personally feel that if they were to put LIVE GMs to monitor the servers this issue would be resolved. It's ignorant that they have Forum mods that are hardcore about what is said on the forums and delete posts if your flaming someone or using the Bot word in your post, but nothing live in game on the servers to handle the massive amounts of cheaters and bot trains running everywhere. I totally believe that the server population would rise with new people if they actually handled the in game issues. But then again banning cheaters would cause NCsoft NA to lose a massive amount of monthly profit. 9 bots = $135 now do the math of how many bot trains there are running around.
Really said to let a game die cause NCsoft NA is to hell bent on generating profit off the people that break their own rules.
1. I play 4 years to get level 78. Max average 1 hour a day. I am ingame more, but level average that. If it was like in c1 i would have been level 65 or so. So a change has been done.
2. I agree only hardcore players will be successfull, but this applies to all games. And WoW is easy, that is why ppl play it much less years than L2. Here, we have casual WoW players too, they are the cheaters that get fast max level and get bored in a few months. Real players are here for years. If there werent the cheaters, much more players would have been in. Like in russian servers or something.
3. Here you can raid every day. It gives exp, gear and vita.
4. Every game requires you to give a portion of your life, even solitaire. It is a form of entertainment, every entertainment has a price, at least the time you spend on it.
There are plenty of things to discover at low levels, nowadays it is really fast, not 2 months to level 25 like in c1, but 2 hours. For some ppl games start at last level, there is no joy till they can't "pwn" everybody. Yeah, L2 is not for them, but they cheat here anyway.
There are plenty of easy games, dont change l2, only eliminate cheating and the game will be very lively.
M
I would imagine that NC is laughing all the way to the bank with the cheaters money. Its a business...botters mean money...its not about people's game experience. This has been proven over and over again since C3.
without advertising, there will be no new players, so banning all bots just means super empty servers, server merges and the end of the game, because the legit players will just keep dwindling to nothing anyway.
I agree with M. I do think that the game would be more fun and people wouldn't mind the grind if the cheaters that have a toon for 1 month and are max lvl were removed. They ruin the game for all the legit players. I personally feel that if they were to put LIVE GMs to monitor the servers this issue would be resolved. It's ignorant that they have Forum mods that are hardcore about what is said on the forums and delete posts if your flaming someone or using the Bot word in your post, but nothing live in game on the servers to handle the massive amounts of cheaters and bot trains running everywhere. I totally believe that the server population would rise with new people if they actually handled the in game issues. But then again banning cheaters would cause NCsoft NA to lose a massive amount of monthly profit. 9 bots = $135 now do the math of how many bot trains there are running around.
Really said to let a game die cause NCsoft NA is to hell bent on generating profit off the people that break their own rules.
Z
If the person doesn't quit though... that is 9*$20 (new game) + 9 * $15 (new subscription) = $315
However, that is a big IF on NCSoft part if that person they banned replaces their train.
This is very true. But those who defend the way L2 plays with deny this, yet they are curious why new players don't come to the game. The reasons should be obvious. L2 always had this problem were it tries to not be a video game but a lifestyle. Which is a big issue. To climb the ladder you need to practically give up your outside life to do it or bot. Now I know some people will quote this post and say its not true, everything in L2 is perfectly achievable by legit players (read my sig). To stop you in your tracks, tell me how long that will take for the average person who is not willing to give up 6-8 hours of their day to grind. Who is not willing to give up 5-7 days out of the week to grind. Yeah....
L2 would see a surge of subscriptions IF they changed the grind to fit a casual audience. Its idiotic to want more players to join when its completely aimed towards one type of player. WoW works because content is accessible by casual and hardcore players. You don't have to play 8 hours a day to raid in WoW. You just can raid once or twice per week.
In L2 everything you do requires you to give up a portion of your life or cheat. Which is why cheating is rampant in this game. If content and other things were achievable by the player without dedicating 85% of his/her time to the game, then cheating would be minimum. In Korea mmorpgs are a lifestyle. In NA/EU they are not, they are just games.
L2 attempts to blur the line between real life and game life. It has been its biggest issue since day one and will continue to be it until they make a change. And to those who will defend how great L2 is, how they like how its so hard and feels rewarding. All the power to you as you watch the population dwindle and dwindle until there is only two servers and then one server.
I totally agree with what you are saying. I do however think that a stronger vitality system was created, the market fixed, and more people returned to l2 the game would rock. Here are my ideas for fixing these problems:
Double the value of Vitality (x800%)
Allow non-dwarfs to craft at say a 40% rate (but give dwarves a 90% craft rate)
Hey NC, they invented this totally awesome invention called a "Television", where people can view moving pictures. On this remarkable invention, we can have something called an "Advertisement", or a "Commercial". These are used to tell people what l2 is, particularly WoW obsessed Americans. We don't think AION is insanely good. But I do think if the previous corrections were made, we would adore l2. :)
This is very true. But those who defend the way L2 plays with deny this, yet they are curious why new players don't come to the game. The reasons should be obvious. L2 always had this problem were it tries to not be a video game but a lifestyle. Which is a big issue. To climb the ladder you need to practically give up your outside life to do it or bot. Now I know some people will quote this post and say its not true, everything in L2 is perfectly achievable by legit players (read my sig). To stop you in your tracks, tell me how long that will take for the average person who is not willing to give up 6-8 hours of their day to grind. Who is not willing to give up 5-7 days out of the week to grind. Yeah....
L2 would see a surge of subscriptions IF they changed the grind to fit a casual audience. Its idiotic to want more players to join when its completely aimed towards one type of player. WoW works because content is accessible by casual and hardcore players. You don't have to play 8 hours a day to raid in WoW. You just can raid once or twice per week.
In L2 everything you do requires you to give up a portion of your life or cheat. Which is why cheating is rampant in this game. If content and other things were achievable by the player without dedicating 85% of his/her time to the game, then cheating would be minimum. In Korea mmorpgs are a lifestyle. In NA/EU they are not, they are just games.
L2 attempts to blur the line between real life and game life. It has been its biggest issue since day one and will continue to be it until they make a change. And to those who will defend how great L2 is, how they like how its so hard and feels rewarding. All the power to you as you watch the population dwindle and dwindle until there is only two servers and then one server.
Making the game easier to gain level will perhaps draw more people to the game, but you got to realize that this people that you want to attract as a player audience thinks that Aion is hard. And I am not kidding.
They think that grinding for an item with 2% drop rate is hard, or even getting 1M xp is hard when they get 15k xp per mob.
I am not saying that a some changes in the game could be could,
but I am saying that A LOT of the people you think will come running will think Lineage2 is hard what ever is changed in the game, if not the core is change and basically I don't want that.
Perhaps fix the bugs that is in the game?
Perhaps the developers should concentrate on things that they put in the game and just left?
Making the game more stable?
Making the game run smoother?
Those are the things I think that matters, not increasing the vit to 800% becuse people that dont like this gameplay never will.
If the person doesn't quit though... that is 9*$20 (new game) + 9 * $15 (new subscription) = $315
However, that is a big IF on NCSoft part if that person they banned replaces their train.
Absolutely, I totally agree there. What it basically boils down to for me at least is they NEED to have live gm support in-game. Other than this particular post I've come the realization that $!*%#ing about bots is pointless. NCSoft wants there money no matter how they get it.
Absolutely, I totally agree there. What it basically boils down to for me at least is they NEED to have live gm support in-game. Other than this particular post I've come the realization that $!*%#ing about bots is pointless. NCSoft wants there money no matter how they get it.
Z
That is of course, a false impression of NCSoft that they need bots, also bots have the impression they are needed. There are many L2 implementations out there where the bots are banned, yet the servers are overcrowded and the needs for new ones arise...
And I am NOT talking about illegal servers, and we all know it is possible to have good legit game and full servers, so why we keep saying the bots are needed ? On what grounds ?
M
They are not needed in general but here they are cause if they ban em all prolly more ppl will quit than those coming back cause bots been banned, imo too late for this place, not that NC are rushing to ban the bots anyway :P
Actually, the returning players and also new players will be much more than the banned bots. We have working models that started from ZERO recently.
In the times where we had 13 full servers, of course, banning bots would have really made a very big impact. Now bots left MORE than real players, actually the rate at which bots are leaving is unprecedented, so, if they leave anyway, and they left in big majority, why not ban the remaining cheaters and make the servers legit, bots already lost, give them the mercy blow to spare agony and welcome all other players that were kept out by the botting.
M
Actually, the returning players and also new players will be much more than the banned bots. We have working models that started from ZERO recently.
In the times where we had 13 full servers, of course, banning bots would have really made a very big impact. Now bots left MORE than real players, actually the rate at which bots are leaving is unprecedented, so, if they leave anyway, and they left in big majority, why not ban the remaining cheaters and make the servers legit, bots already lost, give them the mercy blow to spare agony and welcome all other players that were kept out by the botting.
M
You are assuming if NCSoft banned all the bots it would attract new/old players to play L2. I am sorry... but if someone quit this game 4 years ago because of the bot problem, they probably wouldn't come back. If they did come back they'd be in their mid-30s to low-40s, and realize the game is dead at low levels, lose interest, and deactivate. TBH... I can count one 1 hand the number of people I know still playing from my first clan, and about an equal amount from my second clan. Then I can probably count using hands and feet how many people from my current clan that have quit out of lack of interest to play/rl in the last 6 months. This game is dying, and wont ever have a revival.
You are assuming if NCSoft banned all the bots it would attract new/old players to play L2. I am sorry... but if someone quit this game 4 years ago because of the bot problem, they probably wouldn't come back. If they did come back they'd be in their mid-30s to low-40s, and realize the game is dead at low levels, lose interest, and deactivate. TBH... I can count one 1 hand the number of people I know still playing from my first clan, and about an equal amount from my second clan. Then I can probably count using hands and feet how many people from my current clan that have quit out of lack of interest to play/rl in the last 6 months. This game is dying, and wont ever have a revival.
true, effective banning now won't have any effect on number of players
that would require actual advertising of the game, and even if a lot of people would start now they still probably won't stick around long term enough to get to end game, which is still a long way in time and effort away from a beginning player. And a large percentage of people don't have the patience or addiction to keep going with one game for years, which is what L2 requires. and honestly I think the average American who can get into WoW won't have the endurance or determination to deal with L2, so even if it was advertised, there would not be a huge long term boost to population, because a lot of people will still quit in a month when they realize they won't see those shiny armors on the create a character screens on themselves anytime soon.
had a guy just join clan, in a few days he asked "does everyone bot in this game?" I answered "almost" and he's since stopped playing. Perhaps I was too truthful. It's too late to fix the cheating, you have to play in spite of it/for other reasons, or don't play at all.
1. I play 4 years to get level 78. Max average 1 hour a day. I am ingame more, but level average that. If it was like in c1 i would have been level 65 or so. So a change has been done.
65 was decent in C1. 78 is not decent in Gracia Epilogue. Gratz on getting there, and I know you feel good that you accomplished it, but 78 is a low level these days and you cannot compare C1 to Gracia Epilogue. People have been dinging 80 since Interlude. 78 is nothing, especially seeing as how they have made the game easier SINCE interlude.
2. I agree only hardcore players will be successfull, but this applies to all games. And WoW is easy, that is why ppl play it much less years than L2. Here, we have casual WoW players too, they are the cheaters that get fast max level and get bored in a few months. Real players are here for years. If there werent the cheaters, much more players would have been in. Like in russian servers or something.
Apples and Oranges.
In WoW you don't get full Best-In-Slot i258 gear upon dinging 80. Same for great PvP gear. You also cannot buy it or eBay it (Bind on Pickup = Go Raid if you want Uber PvE gear, go Arena if you want Uber PvP gear i.e. work for what you want, don't just trade/ebuy it).
This is not true in Lineage II. You can buy the Character, the Gear, everything. This facilitates rampant cheating. You can also bot up to max level and be assured that you chances of being banned are minimal at best here.
There is little to no benefit to botting in WoW because most of the game is aimed at max-level characters, and it is structured much differently than Lineage II (in a good way, IMO).
WoW PvP and PvE itemization progression is much more advanced than Lineage II, and the classbalance (although quite sketchy at best) is still miles ahead. There is way more content in that game, as well.
I'm no WoW fanboy, but it seems hypocritical to talk down to it when NCSoft has been doing nothing but implementing WoW mechanics into Lineage II, and you people are eating it up like a toddler on Halloween. Territory Wars are basically Alterac Valley. WoW even did Castle Seiges better with Wintergrasp, complete with a Raid Dungeon in it (for the controlling faction) that drops USEFUL Gear. OMGZ?!
3. Here you can raid every day. It gives exp, gear and vita.
Rading in Lineage II is broken because it provides no meaningful progression path for any characters. Also, anything that a raid boss drops can be purchased from another player, which removes the incentive for raiding for many players when you consider the in-game political implimentations in regards to raids that actually drop useful items (i.e. Epic Jewels, Level Soul Crystals to 14+, etc.).
The reason why Epic-level raids are the only contested raids should give you a clue as to why raiding is laughed at in this game. Itemization is poor and farmers are so rampant that people are more inclined to buy or farm mats and craft instead (and often with botted up BHs on a program). The in-game economy is also way too volatile because the farmer factor is too strong in Lineage II, contrary to other MMORPGs.
The XP, Vitality, and Gear you get from raiding (outside of Epics) is not a factor because you must gear up to the level of gear dropped by the raid (or beyond it) to farm the raid, anyways. You do Antharas with toons in A Grade Gear? I guess if your guild tries to OE everything the raid drops, that is a factor. The XP is so bad the raids mind as well not give any.
4. Every game requires you to give a portion of your life, even solitaire. It is a form of entertainment, every entertainment has a price, at least the time you spend on it.
There are plenty of things to discover at low levels, nowadays it is really fast, not 2 months to level 25 like in c1, but 2 hours. For some ppl games start at last level, there is no joy till they can't "pwn" everybody. Yeah, L2 is not for them, but they cheat here anyway.
When the level limit goes up, most games make it easier to get through the lower levels. That's because the game's veteran population is higher in average level and in MMORPGs when people have no one to play with, they get frustrated and quit. Comparing the two shows a blatant misunderstanding for how these games work and why changes are implemented.
NCSoft has been making it incrementally easier to level to incrementally higher levels over time, because the average level of the playerbase goes up over time.
There is nothing to discover at low levels. This is a PvP game - not WoW. It takes extremely long to get to 81+ levels in Lineage II, and the whole point of leveling up is to PvP. You cannot PvP at low levels, and slowing yourself down to "discover stuff at lower levels" is akin to willfully crippling you character.
There is a reason why people bot, ebay, box multiple buffers, and spend so much time in this game leveling.
You cannot compare Lineage II with Solitaire. There is no other MMORPG so easily imbalanced by a level difference in PvP that requires the players to spend as much time "leveling up" as Lineage II. Usually the difference comes with Itemization for players who can coordinate themselves decently to achieve an objective, but even that is broken in Lineage II since you can buy/trade anything.
There are plenty of easy games, dont change l2, only eliminate cheating and the game will be very lively.
M
If you actualyl believe that you are clueless, and cheating will never be eliminated in Lineage II until fundamental (and radical) changes are implemented.
The game is in the state it is in because people like you cannot let go of the luxuries coded into the game that benefit you and cheaters, alike - like the bad itemization (Sets), the proliferation of tradeable items, the rediculous adena sinks, the lack of Progression content IRT PvE in the game (there really are no PvE guilds in L2, only carebear and PvP guilds), etc.
Lineage II is easier than WoW, both PvP and PvE. No skill is required to /faceroll in this game.
true, effective banning now won't have any effect on number of players
that would require actual advertising of the game, and even if a lot of people would start now they still probably won't stick around long term enough to get to end game, which is still a long way in time and effort away from a beginning player. And a large percentage of people don't have the patience or addiction to keep going with one game for years, which is what L2 requires. and honestly I think the average American who can get into WoW won't have the endurance or determination to deal with L2, so even if it was advertised, there would not be a huge long term boost to population, because a lot of people will still quit in a month when they realize they won't see those shiny armors on the create a character screens on themselves anytime soon.
had a guy just join clan, in a few days he asked "does everyone bot in this game?" I answered "almost" and he's since stopped playing. Perhaps I was too truthful. It's too late to fix the cheating, you have to play in spite of it/for other reasons, or don't play at all.
Nothing can help this game. It's too old, and the content they add to the game is so one-sided in favor or high level characters that new players see little reason in starting from scratch only to climb Mt. Everest.
If you think some Marketing and Bot Banning will fix this issue, you are naive and probably haven't played any MMORPG for more than 4 years (those who have been playing L2 that long will have to be stupid to argue that, seeing the way the game has turned out at this point). Marketing doesn't fix balance issues, banning bots won't fix it. If anything, bots and farmers have actually helped the game sustain a higher population, longer, because it gave people who would have quit a long time ago a cheap and easy way to avoid the only "hard" (or rather monotanous) parts of the game - leveling up and getting gear...
MMORPGs have a lifespan where they sort of plateau and stagnate. Either you get it right early, or you get it wrong and pay for it later on down the road. NCSoft didn't get it right - at least, not for NA/EU players in general (see Thread Title and Subject Matter). They got it so wrong that the changes needed to really boost the playerbase up would require them to radically change the way the game functions for much of the current subscribers.
65 was decent in C1. 78 is not decent in Gracia Epilogue. Gratz on getting there, and I know you feel good that you accomplished it, but 78 is a low level these days and you cannot compare C1 to Gracia Epilogue. People have been dinging 80 since Interlude. 78 is nothing, especially seeing as how they have made the game easier SINCE interlude.
Doesn't this has to do with when you start playing?
If i was playing from C1,yes 78lvl would be low.
If i started playing before 3 months,should i be 80+ allready?(not that some ppl don't be)
Nothing can help this game. It's too old, and the content they add to the game is so one-sided in favor or high level characters that new players see little reason in starting from scratch only to climb Mt. Everest.
yea I agree, this game cannot be helped at this point.
It's only still going here as an afterthought because of it's popularity in other countries, and because of the few stubborn subscribers who won't quit (both legit and not). We're probably lucky NCNA hasn't shuttered it and we aren't already down to 2 servers yet.
only real PVP fun to be had is having entire clans transfer servers every 6 months till unbalance is once again restored; repeat or quit until server merge/game ends.
only other thing to do is grind for more shiny gears and levels while socializing with the friends remaining.
This game, like many have said, isn't friendly to newcomers. The reason players come to games like this is for the content, player base, and gaming experience. Although like someone above said the only content being added is that for the high level players. There is no use for many people to /rush 80+ (Even though you can't unless you bot) and then try to get the gear that the botting clans have.
If this game had more low level friendly things going for it not as many would mind playing. Its just that when there is nothing to do at the lower levels but grind away because no one is 1-40 anymore besides academy toons then there's no fun in it. Plus if you're new to L2 1-40 is going to take you a few weeks or so.
To be honest however I do believe marketing would help. You get people actually knowing about the game that helps. Possibly go shut down all the _____ servers? It can't honestly be that hard to do the ones within the united states which are pretty large. Add some low level content, make raids worth while?
Why not make level 5x RB's level crys to +11? That at least gives people a reason to make a 5x character, plus that gives raids meaning in your 50's other then Zaken. If they dropped the levels of the ones for soul crys it helps out tons imho. Then if you increase the exp given it helps even more. I did 5 raids on my 63 SE, with full vit. I died once (Ressed by a bishop) and ended up only making about 3% in that whole span. So for 2 hours of work I got 6 BO blades and 3%? There's no use in doing them lol. I could have easily spent those 2 hours doing some AoE or catas and gotten 20%+
Merge some Servers now, then when those die out one final time a year or so after that. This game had a good long run, but it's going to die... It's not a bad thing, it just happens. I commend Lineage2 for keeping me interested for almost 5 years, and most likely 1 more, but it's dying out, and it's becoming more and more apparent as the months pass.
in Russia there are both Lineage 2 and WoW and many people still play Lineage 2 (yes they do advertise there)... wake up, WoW is not really the only way to make MMO. If you like the certain features, it does not mean they are acceptable to everyone else. There are lots of successful games with completely different concept than of WoW, for example EVE online, and there are some upcoming projects as well. Sure the population might not be the largest, but those players chose their mmo not because they didn't know about WoW, but because they disliked WoW for some reason. There are niche markets and you don't turn one game into WoW to "save" it. only thing it would achieve is shun the remaining loyal player base (which would already have migrated into WoW if they liked it) away which would kill the project instead of saving it.
Doesn't this has to do with when you start playing?
If i was playing from C1,yes 78lvl would be low.
If i started playing before 3 months,should i be 80+ allready?(not that some ppl don't be)
No, it's not relative.
If you want to be competitive in this PVP GAME, 78 isn't going to get you there. 78 is a low level whether or not you started in C1 or Gracia Epilogue. It's been low for quite a while now.
When I say low, I'm not meaning "OMG LOOK AT THAT LEVEL 50 ON THE SEIGE FIELD" kind of low. I'm simply saying you don't have access to the skills/gear/etc. to be competitive in the grand scheme of things.
Maybe you think ganking soloers is competitive PvP?
in Russia there are both Lineage 2 and WoW and many people still play Lineage 2 (yes they do advertise there)... wake up, WoW is not really the only way to make MMO. If you like the certain features, it does not mean they are acceptable to everyone else. There are lots of successful games with completely different concept than of WoW, for example EVE online, and there are some upcoming projects as well. Sure the population might not be the largest, but those players chose their mmo not because they didn't know about WoW, but because they disliked WoW for some reason. There are niche markets and you don't turn one game into WoW to "save" it. only thing it would achieve is shun the remaining loyal player base (which would already have migrated into WoW if they liked it) away which would kill the project instead of saving it.
LMAO.
Please refrain from crying when you really have no clue what you're talking about.
And you OBVIOUSLY didn't read my wall of text, cause I never said anything was better than anything, or that anyone should want this or that.
I simply stated facts. Have you ever wondered why this game is full of botters and farmers, and why they are not even a factor in many other games?
NCSoft doesn't need to turn L2 into WoW. They have Aion.
The only reason why L2 is marketed in Russia is cause the servers are F2P with legalized eBaying. No Serious player here would play under such conditions where your ability to be competitive is directly linked to the limit on you credit card due to legal eBay mechanics.
You sound like a troll.
Also, to the bolded statement, and to show you how bad your reading comprehension is... The last part of my post:
They got it so wrong that the changes needed to really boost the playerbase up would require them to radically change the way the game functions for much of the current subscribers.
This game, like many have said, isn't friendly to newcomers. The reason players come to games like this is for the content, player base, and gaming experience. Although like someone above said the only content being added is that for the high level players. There is no use for many people to /rush 80+ (Even though you can't unless you bot) and then try to get the gear that the botting clans have.
If this game had more low level friendly things going for it not as many would mind playing. Its just that when there is nothing to do at the lower levels but grind away because no one is 1-40 anymore besides academy toons then there's no fun in it. Plus if you're new to L2 1-40 is going to take you a few weeks or so.
To be honest however I do believe marketing would help. You get people actually knowing about the game that helps. Possibly go shut down all the _____ servers? It can't honestly be that hard to do the ones within the united states which are pretty large. Add some low level content, make raids worth while?
Why not make level 5x RB's level crys to +11? That at least gives people a reason to make a 5x character, plus that gives raids meaning in your 50's other then Zaken. If they dropped the levels of the ones for soul crys it helps out tons imho. Then if you increase the exp given it helps even more. I did 5 raids on my 63 SE, with full vit. I died once (Ressed by a bishop) and ended up only making about 3% in that whole span. So for 2 hours of work I got 6 BO blades and 3%? There's no use in doing them lol. I could have easily spent those 2 hours doing some AoE or catas and gotten 20%+
Please refrain from crying when you really have no clue what you're talking about.
And you OBVIOUSLY didn't read my wall of text, cause I never said anything was better than anything, or that anyone should want this or that.
you implied that no item binding=rampart cheating, which would mean that only mmo way is item binding. which is dumb and there are lots of mmos without this stupidity.
I simply stated facts. Have you ever wondered why this game is full of botters and farmers, and why they are not even a factor in many other games?
it's only so rampart in EU/euro, since there are not enough resources for bot hunting. which is caused by low population which is caused by bad PR.
as about the farming, well there's nothing wrong in that (unless farmer bots of course). you see, people can choose how they earn money in this game (like a profession), which is good for the economy. it's boring when nothing you can buy on the market is worth anything, it seems more like single player game to me. other mmo games also support professtions, like eve online.
NCSoft doesn't need to turn L2 into WoW. They have Aion.
The only reason why L2 is marketed in Russia is cause the servers are F2P with legalized eBaying. No Serious player here would play under such conditions where your ability to be competitive is directly linked to the limit on you credit card due to legal eBay mechanics.
i don't know what do you mean by "legalized eBaying" but you can't buy currency, armor, weapon, jewels, characters legally there. i don't know what else can you "eBay"...
also there is an optional monthly subscription fee which most people pay, which gives increased rates. this was already covered in this thread before by the way. and yes "serious players" do go for it because they are mostly bored leveling to 76 for the hundredth time, so increased rates are actually a good idea for the new server.
How many servers FULL has Russian implementation after only one year ? All are free accounts ? 13 Euro here is nothing for most ppl, this is NOT what keeps ppl from coming here, but there 5 Euro is not so cheap, yet many ppl do part with their money for the good game experience.
Now I am AGAINST that f2p model, but still they can pay GMs, they do ban bots, they do repair bugs, they do provide customer service, it is not perfect but at least they TRY.
It's the terrible service NCWest provides, not the game fault. There are maybe 1 mil ppl playing every day l2 in the world, ppl, not accounts, of course it is ridiculously low compared to WoW, but as you said, apples and oranges. I play L2 and not WoW for some reasons.
And if I am low or high that is irelevant as long as there are bots ingame, I wont do PvP with cheaters, and if there were no bots I would have been higher because I would have been interested in PvP and I would have felt the level would matter for the full game experience. As PvP is locked out for me, my level has little importance and I play for other things.
Yes WoW is very different, yes it is easy to level, easy to get gear, you need only to organise well to get everything.
With bot baning L2 would offer a much bigger challenge, I like a big challenge, I dont want easy games, at some point bots here are a challenge, but they are making other challenges dull.
Bots exist because ppl want to "Pwn" fast and easy. But they are so rampant because GMs dont do their job and NCWest is greedy. Bots are in every game, but the extent of the problem depends on the determination of the company to get rid of it.
There are almost bot-free implementations of L2 and ppl dont miss them at all.
Now we have working models of L2 implementations, there is no excuse for NCWest, they are cutting own profits with this policy.
In the end, there will be only one server with 1500 or so live ppl. That can be run by one person, translate and fix bugs, start/stop, etc. All NCSoft TCs will apply to the game too, so one person with a few computers and bandwidth can run l2 for us 5 years from now still.
I am not worried. I am happy most bots are unhappy and leave. They killed the game and now cry about it. We dont need them. We play for fun not to prove anything.
Level cap wont rise in about an year, i will reach level 80 by then. No rush, will enjoy every bit of that time.
M
you implied that no item binding=rampart cheating, which would mean that only mmo way is item binding. which is dumb and there are lots of mmos without this stupidity.
Item Binding = Rampant Cheating when the itemization is set up in such a way that an Arcana Helm is USELESS without the Robe/Boots/Glove and the Economy is set up in a way that it can be monopolized by farmers and prices are controlled by the RL worth of the in-game currency.
Please name one other MMORPG that has a decent subscriber base that allows everything in the game to be traded and is monopolized by farmers as much as Lineage II? Any time a game is released that allows rampant item trading (like L2), it is quickly monopolized by botters, farmers, and ebayers - ESPECIALLY when the XP and Currency Grind is made so long as to be unacceptable to most of the people who would play the game.
If you can do this, I will reactivate my accounts and give everything off my characters.
it's only so rampart in EU/euro, since there are not enough resources for bot hunting. which is caused by low population which is caused by bad PR.
It's rampant in NA/EU because the mentality of the players is totally different than in Korea.
Also, it has nothing to do with bad PR. NCSoft developers have the common sense to allow them to see this was a catastrophe waiting to happen.
as about the farming, well there's nothing wrong in that (unless farmer bots of course). you see, people can choose how they earn money in this game (like a profession), which is good for the economy. it's boring when nothing you can buy on the market is worth anything, it seems more like single player game to me. other mmo games also support professtions, like eve online.
People farm in every game. But what do you mean just farmer bots? You don't think there's anything wrong with Chinese farmers who work shifts live-playing characters to farm items/mats/adena to sell? That what "farmers" were back when companies like xxx (removed) first appeared.
The reason why people eBay and bot is cause you almost have to make farming a job to gear yourself up. The community has created the "money grind" illusion as a weak retort to this. That is nothing but a bad excuse for bad game design.
i don't know what do you mean by "legalized eBaying" but you can't buy currency, armor, weapon, jewels, characters legally there. i don't know what else can you "eBay"...
Lol. Then...
also there is an optional monthly subscription fee which most people pay, which gives increased rates. this was already covered in this thread before by the way. and yes "serious players" do go for it because they are mostly bored leveling to 76 for the hundredth time, so increased rates are actually a good idea for the new server.
Yes, pay to get the same benefit botters here get for free. Sounds like a good business plan. I hope they have fun on their Official PServers.
There is nothign wrong with 1x rates on a new server as long as transfers are allowed. The game is balanced because everyone starts from square 1. Leveling to 76 isn't hard, either. The reason why they pay for increased rates is cause the grind is so rediculous (as in, bad and "unjustified") that they rather pay money to do it. I see this as a form of legalized cheating. Seems like taking shortcuts is only good when you pay NCSoft for them.
How many servers FULL has Russian implementation after only one year ? All are free accounts ? 13 Euro here is nothing for most ppl, this is NOT what keeps ppl from coming here, but there 5 Euro is not so cheap, yet many ppl do part with their money for the good game experience.
Now I am AGAINST that f2p model, but still they can pay GMs, they do ban bots, they do repair bugs, they do provide customer service, it is not perfect but at least they TRY.
It's the terrible service NCWest provides, not the game fault. There are maybe 1 mil ppl playing every day l2 in the world, ppl, not accounts, of course it is ridiculously low compared to WoW, but as you said, apples and oranges. I play L2 and not WoW for some reasons.
And if I am low or high that is irelevant as long as there are bots ingame, I wont do PvP with cheaters, and if there were no bots I would have been higher because I would have been interested in PvP and I would have felt the level would matter for the full game experience. As PvP is locked out for me, my level has little importance and I play for other things.
Yes WoW is very different, yes it is easy to level, easy to get gear, you need only to organise well to get everything.
With bot baning L2 would offer a much bigger challenge, I like a big challenge, I dont want easy games, at some point bots here are a challenge, but they are making other challenges dull.
Bots exist because ppl want to "Pwn" fast and easy. But they are so rampant because GMs dont do their job and NCWest is greedy. Bots are in every game, but the extent of the problem depends on the determination of the company to get rid of it.
There are almost bot-free implementations of L2 and ppl dont miss them at all.
Now we have working models of L2 implementations, there is no excuse for NCWest, they are cutting own profits with this policy.
In the end, there will be only one server with 1500 or so live ppl. That can be run by one person, translate and fix bugs, start/stop, etc. All NCSoft TCs will apply to the game too, so one person with a few computers and bandwidth can run l2 for us 5 years from now still.
I am not worried. I am happy most bots are unhappy and leave. They killed the game and now cry about it. We dont need them. We play for fun not to prove anything.
Level cap wont rise in about an year, i will reach level 80 by then. No rush, will enjoy every bit of that time.
M
NCWest is greedy but NCRu selling Increased XP rates (something they could have done here to cut the benefits of botting down substantially) isn't? Please.
"I want to reach 80 in the next year." That's your goal? Do you not see issue with that, are do you want to still act like a mundant grind makes a game hard or something?
That's why people bot, not cause they want to pwn.
There are more than enough people who botted up in neutral clans killing useless raids and chatting on ventrillo about hot chicks to make me believe this rediculous generalization.
Problem is not the botters. If the game wasn't designed by monkeys they never would have become as big an issue as they are. All the benefits of this game have turned into detriments, because the mechanics are way too easy to exploit (using that term loosely).
Item Binding = Rampant Cheating when the itemization is set up in such a way that an Arcana Helm is USELESS without the Robe/Boots/Glove and the Economy is set up in a way that it can be monopolized by farmers and prices are controlled by the RL worth of the in-game currency.
Please name one other MMORPG that has a decent subscriber base that allows everything in the game to be traded and is monopolized by farmers as much as Lineage II? Any time a game is released that allows rampant item trading (like L2), it is quickly monopolized by botters, farmers, and ebayers - ESPECIALLY when the XP and Currency Grind is made so long as to be unacceptable to most of the people who would play the game.
well I named EVE online - everything is sellable there (in fact there is a very advanced market system) and it's pretty old but still very active. I am not saying that it's monopolized by commercial farmers though. I don't see why this should be the case. I thought the point was to prove that it's possible to have free item market and NOT be polluted by commercial farmers/sellers.
If you can do this, I will reactivate my accounts and give everything off my characters.
It's rampant in NA/EU because the mentality of the players is totally different than in Korea.
no, it's because there are too small number of players. big amount of live active players makes it impossible to bot in most places.
Also, it has nothing to do with bad PR. NCSoft developers have the common sense to allow them to see this was a catastrophe waiting to happen.
People farm in every game. But what do you mean just farmer bots? You don't think there's anything wrong with Chinese farmers who work shifts live-playing characters to farm items/mats/adena to sell? That what "farmers" were back when companies like xxx (removed) first appeared.
chinese farmers, do they still exist in this game? i thought they were long gone... now players farm for themselves, bot or not
The reason why people eBay and bot is cause you almost have to make farming a job to gear yourself up. The community has created the "money grind" illusion as a weak retort to this. That is nothing but a bad excuse for bad game design.
you dislike that and yet you're opposed to decreasing grind by increasing rates... this is contradictory
Lol. Then...
Yes, pay to get the same benefit botters here get for free. Sounds like a good business plan. I hope they have fun on their Official PServers.
well botters get even more with increased rates, don't they? so what's your point?
There is nothign wrong with 1x rates on a new server as long as transfers are allowed. The game is balanced because everyone starts from square 1. Leveling to 76 isn't hard, either. The reason why they pay for increased rates is cause the grind is so rediculous (as in, bad and "unjustified") that they rather pay money to do it. I see this as a form of legalized cheating. Seems like taking shortcuts is only good when you pay NCSoft for them.
so they admitting a mistake by decreasing the grind. what's the problem with that?
no, it's because there are too small number of players. big amount of live active players makes it impossible to bot in most places.
Thats probably one of the most true things i've heard here. If there was a way to increase the population (Advertisements? Free trail services?) Then the bots would barely get a mob or two. At least that's how it would work now with the bots 'smart' enough to not attack mobs others are attacking.
I wish they still flagged back, at least that way we could kill them.
I heard there are 10 servers in Russian official version of L2, and the 11th server is going to be up soon. (just food for thought)
it's true that there will be 11th server.. And i think russians will never stop opening new servers.. everyone clan fails taking ADEN castle in new server wants new server opening.. now there are 4000+ online in each server.. and they are opening new one? why? because they think that more servers means more donate... As russian servers are free there are a lot of bots and school boys...
i came here from russian servers.. I advice to everyone go play in FREE SHARDS.. but never play in russian off.. Can you imagine that in one server players play in different rates?? how stupid sounds? after 2 months of opening server there was players with main 85 all subs /80/80/80 levels..
people can easily enhance S40 weapons.. I have seen S84 duals +10.. can you imagine? worse than free shards.. and lags is worse.. i remember that in alst siege I cant move 20 minutes because of lag..
(1.) I think a few of you might find this site interesting (yes, it also shows the amount of stores): http://www.lineage2.es/misc/retail.php
Some of the names are messed up, but Staris = Pheonix. Not sure about the two...
(2.) Banning bots now won't change anything. The players who decided to remain even in the face of the rampant botting and ebaying are already aware of it and clearly don't care enough to quit over it. It would simply be wasted revenue. Not to mention that a mass banning wouldn't bring a whole lot of old players back.
(3.) There are a few ways to real in new players, but many of them require effort on Korea's end. NCWest is quite limited in their ability to get new players. A big improvement would be an effective marketing campaign. Unfortunately, I think NCWest has already said farewell to Lineage 2 and is simply padding the coffin. Making the game F2P might increase the population by a lot, but it would also decrease the quality of the population.
(4.) Like someone mentioned earlier, the division between the hardcore/ebayers/botters and casual players is massive. So much so that any new population that eventually gets drawn to the game gets immediately turned off. There are hardly any people in the towns before Giran (few rerolls, academy farmers, few D grade Soul Shot shops). Not to mention when they finally get to Giran, all they see are overenchanted weapons and Dynasty gear. It's very overwhelming, especially when it takes a casual newcomer weeks to even hit 30.
(5.) Coupled with the fact that Lineage 2 is over 6 years old and already went through a round of server merges, NCWest probably sees Lineage 2 as a dying game (not to mentioned that they even moved most of the staff onto other projects). Their current goal is probably just drawing out the leftover subscribers until the game is dead for good.
At least in greece,very few shops sell l2 time cards or they run out of them,not everyone(especially non working people)can have a credit card and paysafe card isnt on l2 account 's page anymore!
Before 2 years i also could buy time cards from a major netkafe franchise shops.
Not having a product that is designed for mass population everywhere in market makes this product to die.
Not true. It just limits their market which maybe fine with them. Perfect example, you cant rent a room in the hotel i work at unless you have a valid creditcard.
Not true. It just limits their market which maybe fine with them. Perfect example, you cant rent a room in the hotel i work at unless you have a valid creditcard.
And who wants to limit their market on people who use only credit cards???
At least in greece,very few shops sell l2 time cards or they run out of them,not everyone(especially non working people)can have a credit card and paysafe card isnt on l2 account 's page anymore!
Before 2 years i also could buy time cards from a major netkafe franchise shops.
Not having a product that is designed for mass population everywhere in market makes this product to die.
Dont the stores sell NC softs timecards? like for aion / CoH ? as they also work on Lineage
And who wants to limit their market on people who use only credit cards???
How is it affecting game?
Hmm, I'll assume this is in regards to Time Cards?
if so the reason most online games DON'T use Time Cards (physical ones like WoW's) is because the company loses money on each an every one of the cards.
Look at WoW...it's 14.95 USD a month. The game card is good for 2 months (or 29.90 USD). I can buy it for $32 USD (after tax).....but it's retail price is 29.99 USD.
See the issue? unless the company is supplemented with digital subs (like CC-subs) the company simply cannot afford the manufacturing cost.
Plus, only WoW is the sure seller. NCsoft had Time Cards (physical) for Tabula Rasa...the Best Buy I found them at said they ordered 'these' near the game's release (4 months had passed) and they weren't planning on ordering anymore.
-----
I'd say solve the lag issue and just merge ALL the servers into one. EVE does just fine with multiple timezone-logins, and looking at the Xfire + those tables I doubt there'd be more than 30k players on at any given time.
Dont the stores sell NC softs timecards? like for aion / CoH ? as they also work on Lineage
In my country(i live in capital-centre-) few shops have nsoft time cards and some times they run out and restock after 1 week.
I need to drive by car and spend 1-2 hours (if not much traffic) to find a store with cards.
There was the paysafe card system to pay(and i was very happy to have a store near my home 7 days on week open)but this month i didnt found the paysafecard option on account,so my paysafe is useless and the money ive paid gone.
The game would have much more people if they made arrangments for each country,for greece it could be some kind of agreement with netkafe stores,or big internet chain stores,these would make some advertisement too,i can think about such companys in greece that have shops almost in every corner.
as i said b4, and yes i agree it has to do with its a money sink for the company to produce time cards with no extra cost to the consumer
but the real issue is that the asian mentality on business economics is totally different then other parts of the world. They work on the principle of if u want their product or service they will give it to you in their way, u do not have the right to ask for them to change their way, if you want it a different way u need to find a product or service that better fits your needs or expectations, not bother them to change their way.
So in other words as we have stated b4. if u dont like the way ncsoft does things then feel free to go somewhere else. Thats their mentality. They make way more off the koreans then tey would ever any other country.
So would it open markets aand bring more ppl to the game to have it more accesable? yes.
Do they care about it being more accesible to other ppl oter then koreans? Not really.
and BTW just in case u think this is a discriminating country rant....
my rl life name is hai-ping yeung , im 1/2 asian lol and the first of my family to be born in canada
Look at WoW...it's 14.95 USD a month. The game card is good for 2 months (or 29.90 USD). I can buy it for $32 USD (after tax).....but it's retail price is 29.99 USD.
See the issue? unless the company is supplemented with digital subs (like CC-subs) the company simply cannot afford the manufacturing cost.
no I don't see the issue. are you kidding me? A time card in a box is like maybe $1 manufacturing cost.
I think we can be slightly optimistic about an increase in playerbase. Eventhough we might not feel it, I have been keeping a close eye on it. It shows a slight increase of logged in players at the same time, ever day for a little while now. Also going by the tables that were posted in this topic earlier, it confirms with my suspicion.
For example, yesterday Teon hit almost 2800 players. Wherease 2 months ago it would of been less then 2000.
Ofcourse it's around EU playtime now, so the best example would be to look at the EU servers, in specifit Teon. If anything, there's an increase of 1000 players.
I heard there are 10 servers in Russian official version of L2, and the 11th server is going to be up soon. (just food for thought)
P.S. The game population on NA/Euro servers directly indicates the efficiency of NCsoft's (NCNA that is) marketing department. Therefore, all the questions should be addressed to its representatives.
+1
Soon Innova servers will have more players then WoW.. if they keep the good work they're doing.
can you not get this shipped to greece or need Euro specific time card?
i nearly fell over on boxing day when i was in my local walmart and saw .... Aion/L2/CoH time cards O.o no l2 game boxes only aion but hey time cards ^^
Merge all servers... problem solved. More ppl, more clans, more competition, more fun.... and *NCSoft this is for you* Only one server to maintain OMFG so easy a caveman can do it.
And then you have one euro server samething .. !!! winwin!!!!!!!!
Merge all servers... problem solved. More ppl, more clans, more competition, more fun.... and *NCSoft this is for you* Only one server to maintain OMFG so easy a caveman can do it.
And then you have one euro server samething .. !!! winwin!!!!!!!!
no doesnt solve the problem
1. Where do you locate it? East cost or west coast? my ping changes by like 40 from east to west.
2. Youve taken the Clan halls and halved them by doing this cause now you have twice as many clans vying for the same amount of clan halls. Causes clans to break up and split into other clans that have clan halls.
3. more competition for the first while then eventually it will taper off and youll be left with a smaller player base from those who quit because they were casual gamers/unable to compete for leveling areas
i nearly fell over on boxing day when i was in my local walmart and saw .... Aion/L2/CoH time cards O.o no l2 game boxes only aion but hey time cards ^^
On Sunday i was at Best Buy and thought i would look for a game. They had Aion on special for $20.00.
I managed to talk 3 people out of buying it after i explained what happened to L2 and that Botting is as rampant on Aion.
It felt good that i saved these people from wasting their time and money.
On Sunday i was at Best Buy and thought i would look for a game. They had Aion on special for $20.00.
I managed to talk 3 people out of buying it after i explained what happened to L2 and that Botting is as rampant on Aion.
It felt good that i saved these people from wasting their time and money.
Merge all servers... problem solved. More ppl, more clans, more competition, more fun.... and *NCSoft this is for you* Only one server to maintain OMFG so easy a caveman can do it.
And then you have one euro server samething .. !!! winwin!!!!!!!!
Not a merge, but a complete wipe and restart from scratch.
Not a merge, but a complete wipe and restart from scratch.If they had 1 decently managed server (no bots, no ebaying, etc) I'd easily reroll there. And make sure they don't allow server transfers...
Then again, I'm only in my late 70s on my highest character so I wouldn't be losing too much.
Not a merge, but a complete wipe and restart from scratch.
I think its a matter of trust. Why would you believe that NC would keep the servers clean. History would teach us that they would keep them clean for awhile until people had invested some time then let their best customers do what keeps them happy.
Honestly why would you ever believe anything they say...has 5+ years taught you nothing ??? lol.
WHy everyone wants a merged server I have no clue... Its exactly like Xentheous says, You have all these people wanting it, sure the competition rocks for a little while, maybe a few months, then people get ****** and quit or don't try. The over powered ally that absorbed 1/2 the server into their ally gank every other clan cause thats what is "fun" and then the server quits cause they can't compete, the big ally wonders why the hell it happened and QQ's about low population... It would only repeat itself if they were to merge servers.
WHy everyone wants a merged server I have no clue... Its exactly like Xentheous says, You have all these people wanting it, sure the competition rocks for a little while, maybe a few months, then people get ****** and quit or don't try. The over powered ally that absorbed 1/2 the server into their ally gank every other clan cause thats what is "fun" and then the server quits cause they can't compete, the big ally wonders why the hell it happened and QQ's about low population... It would only repeat itself if they were to merge servers.Unfortunately, this.
1. Where do you locate it? East cost or west coast? my ping changes by like 40 from east to west.
Central
2. Youve taken the Clan halls and halved them by doing this cause now you have twice as many clans vying for the same amount of clan halls. Causes clans to break up and split into other clans that have clan halls.
Luck of the draw
3. more competition for the first while then eventually it will taper off and youll be left with a smaller player base from those who quit because they were casual gamers/unable to compete for leveling areas
Last i checked this was a pvp game, ppl got too accustomed to the i can xp for days and not be bothered.
WHy everyone wants a merged server I have no clue... Its exactly like Xentheous says, You have all these people wanting it, sure the competition rocks for a little while, maybe a few months, then people get ****** and quit or don't try. The over powered ally that absorbed 1/2 the server into their ally gank every other clan cause thats what is "fun" and then the server quits cause they can't compete, the big ally wonders why the hell it happened and QQ's about low population... It would only repeat itself if they were to merge servers.
I highly doubt that every high lvl clan on every server that merges with be holding hands.. thats too many ego's... How many ppl does it take to do sod... or demon prince.. beleth .. or w/e the boss name in HB is.
Sure there will be some side hoppers and axe kissers, but with that many ppl slapped onto server, itll be for the better......
Anyways if you say itll just die off again? well... then and only then will this game be truely dead and they would have to pull the plug.
casual gamer cry's... well if you only log in for 10 hours a week .. how the F#@# is that my fault? Ofc your not gonna have dynasty next week or be lvl 86 in 2. Its a clan effort and i think ppl forgot about this as well.. so love a dwarf go on a hunt get some spoils or do some quests or sit in town complaining about how this game sux for casual gamers...
gf
I highly doubt that every high lvl clan on every server that merges with be holding hands.. thats too many ego's... How many ppl does it take to do sod... or demon prince.. beleth .. or w/e the boss name in HB is.
Sure there will be some side hoppers and axe kissers, but with that many ppl slapped onto server, itll be for the better......
Anyways if you say itll just die off again? well... then and only then will this game be truely dead and they would have to pull the plug.
casual gamer cry's... well if you only log in for 10 hours a week .. how the F#@# is that my fault? Ofc your not gonna have dynasty next week or be lvl 86 in 2. Its a clan effort and i think ppl forgot about this as well.. so love a dwarf go on a hunt get some spoils or do some quests or sit in town complaining about how this game sux for casual gamers...
gf
on Lionna before merge, there were 3 sides vieing for power and competing for things; some months Oly was a fair split, some months it was a bit more unbalanced, but always 3 clans on top and a lot of fighting.
now on Aria there is 1 clan with 25 slots. that same clan's 5 alt clans own 5 castles.
how was a merge an improvement?
look what happened to Sayha. look whats happening now on phoenix.
phoenix used to be again 2 sides pretty evenly matched, always at each others throats with some BRUTAL pvp. ive seen the old Hindemith and Gustin videos, the merge worked for them for a while. there were 3 clans if ive interpreted the acronyms properly that were robustly combatting. since Nova went and transferred from Sayha to Phoenix there are now a lot less "domination" on Sayha, as hero spots are scattered and unclear. Pheonix is doing well despite the merge AND the transfer of Nova.
it works on some level and for some servers. but you cant tell me with a straight face that 1 successful merge is cause or reason to try again.
I highly doubt that every high lvl clan on every server that merges with be holding hands.. thats too many ego's... How many ppl does it take to do sod... or demon prince.. beleth .. or w/e the boss name in HB is.
True for the most part, but look at Nova in Phoenix... And in another server I can't remember the big name controlling most the castles that a post was made about.
Nova absorbed a major opposition into its clan and now no one can touch them. They always call out other clans for pvp, but when you absorb most your competition to aid you in server domination it happens. And yes I may have exaggerated with the 50% number but I would almost bet that a few allys would merge to be a vast server power rather then having a multiple alliance fight for Aden castle every two weeks.
--snip--
since Nova went and transferred from Sayha to Phoenix there are now a lot less "domination" on Sayha, as hero spots are scattered and unclear.
--snip--
Nova leaving to harass another server was the best thing that ever happened to Sayha. The fans of PvP are happy as are the fans of PvE (somewhat less so IMHO but way (way) better than the gankfest). As you say, heroes are contested most months (my side lost the vast majority of the heroes for December) and we had the most exciting and fun siege in my memory at Rune this past weekend. Tiat is being done by both sides and SoD is contested every opening. Both sides have done the major epic bosses (including Valakas) in the past few weeks and there is almost constant PvP for Ant Queen.
No one side is dominating anything and competition is high. Sayha is a wonderful place now that Nova is Phoenix's problem, but let's not let the secret out shall we?
Last i checked this was a pvp game, ppl got too accustomed to the i can xp for days and not be bothered.
you are correct this is a PvP game, but at the same time you cant PvP a clan hall, you cant PvP if your ping is so bad it lags you every so often.
I agree with tabbi in that if they could actually make a server new fresh with guarenteed no bots / transfers like they tried with luna(and failed) i would give it a shot.
Yesterday I checked the server statistics.. and..what a surprise... Devianne population was 527 (not even close to 600) and the best was Phoenix with 900+.. Franz and teon were 800+...
Well.. what can i say... last year we had 2k+ on devi.. and we were the lowest populated server... OMG...
Its hard to judge the population at this time of year with the holidays and all people are out and about, playing other vid. games they may have gotten, or just plain shopping not as many people log in as normal id think
Its hard to judge the population at this time of year with the holidays and all people are out and about, playing other vid. games they may have gotten, or just plain shopping not as many people log in as normal id think
I tested at exactly the same time last year. When the server status was: Normal... not LIGHT all the time :D
During sieges, the population increased to 650... So... lol not promising numbers, you know I'm saying? :)
Teon has been almost all the time over 2.000 and Franz not far behind, either you checked in the middle of the night europe time or there was just a down time prior to you checking. take a pick.
Teon has been almost all the time over 2.000 and Franz not far behind, either you checked in the middle of the night europe time or there was just a down time prior to you checking. take a pick.
if it was even slightly close to 2000 it would've been 'Normal' not 'Light'. lol when was the light time you checked those?
if it was even slightly close to 2000 it would've been 'Normal' not 'Light'. lol when was the light time you checked those?Right now, Teon is at 1,579 and Franz is at 1,339 (source (http://www.lineage2.es/misc/retail.php)). Apparently Teon still goes over 2,000 players every day, although Franz has dropped below Pheonix for the most part.
Bel, your numbers are WAY off. Do a little fact checking before digging the grave a little deeper.
Plus, the Light/Normal/Heavy rating is relative to the player cap which is set to 6,000 right now. I assume 'Normal' kicks in around 2,500-3,000 but I don't remember.
Right now, Teon is at 1,579 and Franz is at 1,339 (source (http://www.lineage2.es/misc/retail.php)). Apparently Teon still goes over 2,000 players every day, although Franz has dropped below Pheonix for the most part.
Bel, your numbers are WAY off. Do a little fact checking before digging the grave a little deeper.
Plus, the Light/Normal/Heavy rating is relative to the player cap which is set to 6,000 right now. I assume 'Normal' kicks in around 2,500-3,000 but I don't remember.
ok, lemme check with my resources. Gimme a min.
phoenix used to be again 2 sides pretty evenly matched, always at each others throats with some BRUTAL pvp. ive seen the old Hindemith and Gustin videos, the merge worked for them for a while. there were 3 clans if ive interpreted the acronyms properly that were robustly combatting. since Nova went and transferred from Sayha to Phoenix there are now a lot less "domination" on Sayha, as hero spots are scattered and unclear. Pheonix is doing well despite the merge AND the transfer of Nova.
Phoenix might have a lot of people, but it is not really doing all that well. It works fine when you have evenly matched top alliances pvping each other (then they keep each other busy and the rest of the server which is not interested in having long-lasting wars is left alone), but as soon as one side starts to dominate, you have lots of people switching sides. Too many always want to be on the winning side in this game. This then of course unbalances things even further, even more people switch sides/leave game, and you have only one big, bored top alliance left with no real competition anymore.
At least so far Nova have not become total a_sshats, only a few of them run around waving their ****** and kill randoms just because they can. I just wonder what will happen if their opposition totally crumbles and starts leaving the game/transferring to other servers, then it's probably time to force the rest of the server to "enjoy the game as it is intended to be played", i.e. giving Nova their pvp fun. The only slight satisfaction I get from all of this is that Nova's main opposition on Phoenix wasn't any better before Nova arrived, and now they are on the losing side for a change.
IMO your alliance should team up with dosshouse alliance and war nova. Maybe legion might help you guys out a little instead of bieng there lapdogs rubbin there nose in the cracks. Im not even gonna mention FS... l o l ... **** i just did =(
Looking at Luna, the past months NC sweeped the server pretty hard and LOTS got banned. Just look at it population now. It went from 2.5K connections to less the 700 on a daily basis.
I am not saying Luna is bot-free but you have to give it some effort these days to find some.
Now I am waiting for all those new players that will come.....
Guess what, they ain't coming. Luna is becoming more empty every month.
As Jyrki put it very realistic before, the game have given me 5 years quality entertainment.
But it is in the fall of it's life. I don't think it will die out very soon but eventualy it will unless NC will something drasticly change like making this game Free to Play or something.
I don't believe that banning all cheaters/botters/what-ever is gonna revive the game.
Nor do I believe that making the game half as easy as it is these days will revive it.
A merge with an other server e.g. Franz will bring some life again to the server, atleast for a while. Either way if things stay unchanged I seriously doubt if I will still be playing in Luna (or L2 at all) by the end of next year.
luna is empty, because people have transfert to teon or phoenix, teon had got mass ban and they still keep at least 2000 peoples, yes our server have got mass ban, but einheit still have 200 bots, it is only because russian go to einheit and the yoj have cirrupted gm to ban swarm people :)
I agree that banning bots wont save the game. But I really don't see it as doing that bad anyways. Its true that the game is fading out and that happens after time. Although merges do nothing good imho. Its a short fix that requires too much effort.
If they were to do F2P i really wouldn't mind. Give subscribers 2x exp/drops, and keep items outside of servitors/hats out of the shop. It keeps an income for those who want to level faster and the player base is going to be massive. I just HATE the idea of buying your way to the top legally.
The problem imo is that NC only wants to selectively ban bots. By and large the serious Adena sellers are not banned at all...and if some eager GM does ban them NC quickly unbans them and gives them apologies and rewards.
Many have stated that if NC cannot enforce their own EULAs then take botting out of the EULAs. Let everybody bot till they're blue.
This is what is giving NC a bad name and why some say that NC West's mangement are "in on it".....they have eliminated alot of ways for people to make Adena and they keep making it easier to level. Their latest is changing the Manor system so that only people with scripts can turn in the seeds for crops. Lyzira was working on getting that fixed but then quit a few days later without a word to me. (which i found rather odd).
Now newer players are getting to S Grade faster than ever but do not have the funds to buy the equipment....some will quit....alot will ebay....some will start botting.
Some people say eliminating bots won't change anything...certainly botters say that :p... but if it is true then open the game to botting and then everyone is on a level field.
Some people say eliminating bots won't change anything...certainly botters say that :p... but if it is true then open the game to botting and then everyone is on a level field.Iunno. I think it's far too late to start actually banning bots.
For starters, everyone who hates bots to the degree of quitting has already quit, and banning them now certainly won't bring enough players back for NCsoft to even consider doing it.
Since the game's economy is pretty much run by bots, you would need an influx of new players in order to keep the economy thiving. Otherwise the prices all skyrocket because supply suddenly drops and the only people who can afford anything are ebayers.
Since the game's economy is pretty much run by bots, you would need an influx of new players in order to keep the economy thiving. Otherwise the prices all skyrocket because supply suddenly drops and the only people who can afford anything are ebayers.
Bull sh..
There is already 3+ months when most bots are banned (I believe that at least 80% have been baned), but prices goes down, and still goes down.
Please learn some economic stuff before such statements.
The prices are going down because the game population is dwindling.
When there are less people, there is less demand. You cannot keep prices high when there aren't many people willing to buy the goods.
You have to give them incentive, and the easiest way to provide incentive is to lower the prices.
Additionally, prices of some items are going down simply because people have moved on in levels. A Grade items are cheap now because it's so much easier to level. S Grade is cheap as well. S80 is much cheaper because it's a lot easier to get it.
I believe L2's playing population continues to fall in the West for a NUMBER of reasons. It's everybody's guess as to which are "most" influencial, but I believe all of these have a roll to play:
1) Aged game
2) NCSoft has a bad rep
3) MMO community equates L2 with bots
4) No definitive change in botting over the life of the game (nothing substantial and lasting caused by direct NCSoft action at any rate).
5) Essentially no marketing
6) A challenging/time consuming platform at odds with the general culture in the West.
7) "some" effective mass bans from time to time
(yes, I know that # 4 and #7 seem contradictory, but I believe both may have some impact)
8) the low server numbers themselves (probably effects retention of newbies in some cases)
9) A ridiculous "development plan" of the game by NCSoft--essentially a haphazard and disjointed progression of chronicles that are often counter to the best interests of long-term subscribers.
10) No significant price reduction in the monthly subscription fee
11) Competition from other MMO's who's platform is more suited to "fast pwnage of others"--even deck-based games. The other day I was on PS3 Call of Duty and 200,000 players were on!
12) Downturns that were significant in the world economy in the past 18 months.
You could go on and on here. My point is simply that NCSoft NA is not going to grow--at least not without massive changes. And I don't believe those massive changes to THIS game will occur.
My 2 cents.
So, yes, I see mergers (which I am not a fan of) in our future.
~D~
Bull sh..
There is already 3+ months when most bots are banned (I believe that at least 80% have been baned), but prices goes down, and still goes down.
Please learn some economic stuff before such statements.
Sorry for my English.Knowing the population and bot ratio of a specific server has nothing to do with understand economics.
Please learn reading comprehension before stating such things.
You're speaking as a resident of Teon. Teon has the highest server population and the massive banwave didn't leave the server empty. Other servers whose population is less then 1,000 (with bots) would suffer greatly.
Protip: NCWest doesn't care. They don't read these forums, and they've moved on to Aion as their western flagship game. They've already pulled much of the staff off of L2 and moved them to Aion.
It's nice to see that they've learned a little since Lineage 2. Aion is relatively clean of botters and ebayers. Unfortunately I didn't enjoy Aion.