Hello my account was banned yesterday i am sure thet it is because of human (GM) misstake. We are humans we make mistake its understandable.
For a reason i got the following response
This mail is to notify you that account [kamelot12] was confirmed to be violating the User Agreement and/or Rules of Conduct by engaging in the use of an unauthorized third-party application in conjunction with the Lineage II service.
As a result of this violation, this and all related accounts have been permanently closed. The account(s) will no longer be accessible and will not be reactivated.
Our decision is made in the best interest of the Lineage II service and for the player base.
But i never NEVER even download a 3th party software !!!
Never trade/buy/sell addena across the servers or other sites
And never use a e-buy time cards items etc.
I wrote several times to the support site to give me more clear answer what is going on but dont have any response yet.
I just wont to ask the lineage community did some one got the same case in the past ? and what i can do to fix that terrible mistake ?
I will be happy to share your experience in such a situation.
Its the same as alot of players, you were using walker or anything similar and got banned, but some guys that bot in the same place for ages and have always botted are still in game, why are some banned and other don't, that my friend, we will never know the answer.
You do realize it's really hard to believe in your story? Btw this:
But i never NEVER even download a 3th party software !!!
Never trade/buy/sell addena across the servers or other sites
And never use a e-buy time cards items etc.
gives doubts you are telling the truth. Why? Well simply because it seems that you are trying too much.
You were in a party & somebody in party was using a bot program & you
didnt know it, & maybe you went afk for a few min on auto follow ?
And that just happend to be when the GM was checking that party ???
Kinda sad because if the above does happen & legits happen to get banned this way, it is just gonna make more people not want to party & only solo.
That sounds very sad.
That is the only possible reason but .. ok if that is the case GMs can very easy to check if the accounts a are on different IP addresses on different geological locations...
I don't know sounds very strange for me there is a missing logic...
You do realize it's really hard to believe in your story? Btw this:
gives doubts you are telling the truth. Why? Well simply because it seems that you are trying too much.
While you make a valid point, I'm considering that if I were in that situation, I would be trying too hard too - seeing as I haven't done anything to break the EULA yet gotten a ban.
NCSoft is known for being pretty bad with responding to such things with a clear answer. If he really did bot or something, it wouldn't hurt for them to tell him straight up.
Guys account is 2 years old with one character lvl 79.
If that was a bot account will be with full slots of 80+ characters for that time...
If i was a farmer do you think that i will go and lose time to contact NCSoft when i can ebuy a same character with the money that i farmed ...
No sense at all ...
And specially when i know that i never use a 3th party programs i am copletly sure that its one big mistake.
Guys account is 2 years old with one character lvl 79.
If that was a bot account will be with full slots of 80+ characters for that time...
If i was a farmer do you think that i will go and lose time to contact NCSoft when i can ebuy a same character with the money that i farmed ...
No sense at all ...
And specially when i know that i never use a 3th party programs i am copletly sure that its one big mistake.
FYI HGMSpam warned people you will be banned for partying with Botters its the chance you take. They will also ban you if your afk in a botter group leecehing xp. Think of it as a real life conspiracy.
You might of not committed the murder but you knew they were going to kill someone and you didn't do anything to stop it. You are just as guilty as the person who committed the murder.
So now what ? Everytime when i find randoms for pt/rb i have to ask if they are bots or if they have any intencions of using ones ?!? OMG .. Why before ban atleast didn't try to comunicate with the guy ?! What ... we have to have some kinda sixth sense to know who will bot in our pt and who not ?!?
And when there isn't any1 botting and here - happens .. Next time what ? ban every1 on Baium , coz 3-4 healers are on Dualbox with macro ?!
How about not jumping to conclusions ? Just because some random person on the internet said that's what he got banned for it don't mean that's actually the case.
And either way, Spam's point was that people leeching off Bot Groups get banned, meaning those random toons you see sitting in a corner in MOS leeching from the bot group inside. Doesn't mean if somebody in a 9 party was using a bot and 8 people were live the 8 will get banned. Use some common sense
So now what ? Everytime when i find randoms for pt/rb i have to ask if they are bots or if they have any intencions of using ones ?!? OMG .. Why before ban atleast didn't try to comunicate with the guy ?! What ... we have to have some kinda sixth sense to know who will bot in our pt and who not ?!?
And when there isn't any1 botting and here - happens .. Next time what ? ban every1 on Baium , coz 3-4 healers are on Dualbox with macro ?!
+1 its kinda sucks.. because u cant know who is botting or who is using l2 control during PVP...
Yes i completely agree with you that but there is to major problems with that policy.
1. You have to get a clear and straight forword explanation why you are banned with real evidence. Now i guess what can be wrong.
2. Ok if you are in party with with someone who is using a 3th party software they need to see is that a common practice or its kind of random party as SvinqProkleta mentioned.
Everything depends of the point of view.
I am with clear conscious and know that i am completely not guilty in that case.
But any way no matter of NCSoft decision the thinks will never be the same for me.
Probably that will sounds like a cliche but that was not just a game i found many friends and create lots of relationship in the past 2 years.
One game is popular not because of the graphics effects game play but because of the community that he have.
Anyway My idea about that post is not to cry or worn you for somthing , the idea was to ask if someone got a similar problem.
BordrX thanks alot for your suggestion i already contact the support desk but not reply in last 24 hours.
Could have just been a random IP ban depending on where you are located. There is someone on Sayha (I think) that has had a toon banned 3-4 times due to her having a Japanese IP.
If you were banned, and you think it was a mistake... posting on the forums isn't going to do anything for you. Create a support ticket, that's really the only way to go about it... If your innocent, GM's will look into it, and unban you if you didn't do anything wrong, but making posts like this on the forums isn't gonna do anything for you.
If you were banned, and you think it was a mistake... posting on the forums isn't going to do anything for you. Create a support ticket, that's really the only way to go about it... If your innocent, GM's will look into it, and unban you if you didn't do anything wrong, but making posts like this on the forums isn't gonna do anything for you.
Thank you to join into that discussion as i say i already contact the helpdesk and have no response in last 24 hours.
And i really will be happy if some of the GMs really check the logs and clear my name.
If you were banned, and you think it was a mistake... posting on the forums isn't going to do anything for you. Create a support ticket, that's really the only way to go about it... If your innocent, GM's will look into it, and unban you if you didn't do anything wrong, but making posts like this on the forums isn't gonna do anything for you.
Thank you to join into that discussion as i say i already contact the helpdesk and have no response in last 24 hours.
And i really will be happy if some of the GMs really check the logs and clear my name.
It's the weekend, so your not going to get much help from support staff at this time. Only thing I can really say is keep up with it if your truly innocent and didn't do anything wrong, otherwise if you actually did use something wrong.. don't waste your time, they know and can find out whether your telling the truth or lying.
Sadly in regards to this, NCSoft doesn't have the greatest record. Getting your account unbanned is very hard and its nearly impossible to get any proper information about it. Heck just look at the Stabby McStoo banning. Very little information and NCSoft completely stonewalled the whole thing, despite causing significant damage to the Lineage 2 Community.
Sadly none of us can truly know whether you're innocent or not, though as you can see, the community has turned into "Guilty until proven innocent" attitude.
Hey bro, feel sorry and want to say dont give up, if you really didn't do anything and you have proof, then dont give up at all you payed money, so wait until monday, give them a call at head office and tell them u wanna speak to head of public relationships and who ever looks after accopunts and banning stuff, honestly i dont know if tickets would help, i had little problem myself, i was trading on MRT with my brother and he didnt show up properly but accepted the trade so i lost my Doom set and +10 War Axe and bunch of soulshots+healing potions and elixirs, which was sad and i wrote them petition, wrote them ticket, and GM pmed me but he said we are sorry about ur loss but in our reports it says that trade was succesfull... and i tried to explain everything, and didnt want to give up, but my brother said hey, its a game, i know we pay for it, but lets work on new set and new weapon, it was easier for me to stop writting to them than it is for you, but as i said please call them and if you 100% legit, ppl like me do not want legit ppl get banned we want good community to play with us, no matter what server bartz, sayha, aria, teon, phoenix or even luna if u are 100% LEGIT call them! and DONT GIVE UP!
FYI HGMSpam warned people you will be banned for partying with Botters its the chance you take. They will also ban you if your afk in a botter group leecehing xp. Think of it as a real life conspiracy.
You might of not committed the murder but you knew they were going to kill someone and you didn't do anything to stop it. You are just as guilty as the person who committed the murder.
im preatty sure that it isn't such a rule in the EULA, like not leechin from bots; not that i do that, nor that i will ever. If u r deffenately sure that u haven't did anything wrong u should get it back, for the simple reason of this being a human mistake or a lazy gm didn't made his/her (donno if there r women gm's) job corectly. as for what spam said, that's really pointless just for the fact that that thing (leechin from bots) aint listed into the EULA. Cuz if so, a lot innocent ppl could be banned after playin more then 2 or more years, while the real botters xp unharmed by no one...
I don't know what was your point to post here that information.
If you expected some help, just tell Server, name of toons you have.
Maybe we all know you as very serous and honourable person and ask NC for some further investigation.
But tbh .. I don't expect it :/
Before you start send ziloin of petition - just ask yourself if none has access to your account?
If you are really honest and you don't use any 3rd software .. maybe that second do?!
Maroder is my clan mate. I know him in RL very much. He achived lvl 79 for 2 years and a half...is that a bot to you?
We ask NC GM team to check his logs, because we don't believe that they have done it, and just banned him.They haven't even provided him with an explanation for the ban.
We want to raise as much attention as possible to this problem so that the GMs can take a good look at his logs and find out the truth
im preatty sure that it isn't such a rule in the EULA, like not leechin from bots; not that i do that, nor that i will ever. If u r deffenately sure that u haven't did anything wrong u should get it back, for the simple reason of this being a human mistake or a lazy gm didn't made his/her (donno if there r women gm's) job corectly. as for what spam said, that's really pointless just for the fact that that thing (leechin from bots) aint listed into the EULA. Cuz if so, a lot innocent ppl could be banned after playin more then 2 or more years, while the real botters xp unharmed by no one...
You really think a EULA means anything? Any lawyer will tell you its means nothing cause there is always a clause in it stating they can terminate your account at anytime without notice. So they do not need to give you a reason maybe they don't like people from Michigan that week or people older then 50 its a private business u don't have to have access to it.
HGMspam stated you will be banned from leeching from bots, and sure the HGM hasn't change the rules. You think you can out argue the HGM good luck with that, for all intents and purposes the HGM is god in L2.
It's very interesting to me if something like this happens to you - i mean u have never ever even DOWNLOADed 3rd party software for L2 on your Pc .. and u just farm the RIGHT way .. and get ban .. hmm what would you do. If this is an account u invested 2 years of your live .. u cared about it and so on .. it's like they come and take away your child (or smthng u care about very much) just because you are breathing too much air, or living too long ...
So now what ? Everytime when i find randoms for pt/rb i have to ask if they are bots or if they have any intencions of using ones ?!?OMG what the GMS DO?they ban random ppl i think.if you are 100% LEAGAL go spam nsoft to the end.good luck bro.
The drama here is this. How a man who has never used any ilegal software and they claim "was investigated" get's ban and the farming bots in catas, some of wich haven't ever seen any sunlight since lvl 20 still stand there ... and ppl keep reporting them and they still stand ?!?! WTF ? why nobody investigates them? i know it's pointles - whomever bot this is he will buy another .. then check who the bot had traded most frequently and ban both acounts .. i've been frapsing ppl restocking and emptying bots for 2 mounts and they still go around the catas ...
Please if you don't want to ban the real bots .. atleast don't ban the honest players
I am the CL of Maroder for me that is one bad joke.
I play together in the last year and half. Its just not possible to be anything then some kind of mistake.
I am the CL of Maroder for me that is one bad joke.
I play together in the last year and half. Its just not possible to be anything then some kind of mistake.
Everyone from the clan are with you mate.
Careful you know what HGMspam used to do when people use to claim their were ban and never did anything wrong?
He post the whole investigation here and blow them out of the water. HekpomaHka I be more worried your whole is being looked at now.
If that happens will be great.
I can say that i trying to keep the clan legit. When i got a report for any of my clan members i go check the the situation and if they use a bot programs i take a screen shots / video clips expel them from the clan and report them via bot report tool.
But that is off topic and will open a separate thread for that.
But i never NEVER even download a 3th party software !!!
Never trade/buy/sell addena across the servers or other sites
And never use a e-buy time cards items etc.
I wrote several times to the support site to give me more clear answer what is going on but dont have any response yet.
I just wont to ask the lineage community did some one got the same case in the past ? and what i can do to fix that terrible mistake ?
"Please if you don't want to ban the real bots .. atleast don't ban the honest players "
i agree.
as someone else said they can pretty much ban u just cos its friday and raining >< what always tickles me is if i have cause to petition as a euro on a non euro server all i get is automated responses its as frustrating as bots !
Ive not been in ur position, however, i would assume that it probably works the same way as any other ticket - u just have to persist and hope that eventually someone actually looks at the situation and gives u a relevant response.
yes it sux. but as someone says.... they have that right to close ur acct for no reason. I have 4 accts. Ive never botted in my life... if for some reason they closed my accts.... i guess i just gained 75 /month raise lol ... and btw i been playing bout 40hrs a week for 5 yrs lol
its just a game folks... if u treat it different uv got a problem lol
You really think a EULA means anything? Any lawyer will tell you its means nothing cause there is always a clause in it stating they can terminate your account at anytime without notice. So they do not need to give you a reason maybe they don't like people from Michigan that week or people older then 50 its a private business u don't have to have access to it.
HGMspam stated you will be banned from leeching from bots, and sure the HGM hasn't change the rules. You think you can out argue the HGM good luck with that, for all intents and purposes the HGM is god in L2.
so, you're tellin me that if a hgm just simply don't like me i might get banned? aint this suposed to be the official game not some ed up private server where the gm's actually rule?
i mean, if that's how the things r arround here why actually bother to obey/follow the rules?
pity...
so, you're tellin me that if a hgm just simply don't like me i might get banned? aint this suposed to be the official game not some ed up private server where the gm's actually rule?
i mean, if that's how the things r arround here why actually bother to obey/follow the rules?
pity...
In theory yes, but lets leave it. In practice it's bad for business and not being done. Hopefully.
yes it sux. but as someone says.... they have that right to close ur acct for no reason. I have 4 accts. Ive never botted in my life... if for some reason they closed my accts.... i guess i just gained 75 /month raise lol ... and btw i been playing bout 40hrs a week for 5 yrs lol
its just a game folks... if u treat it different uv got a problem lol
If they have a right to close your accounts for no reason omg what we are doing here ?
If someone for NCSoft staff confirm that i will be the first one who will live that community.
And yes its just a game you are right but when you play 2 years its a part of your life Its the same like you go to some bar 2 years every Friday and in the one moment its closed then you are forced to find a another one.
exactly, it's like stealin something from u, your time, since u invested time into this and then it's no more, vanished, just like that thing was a dream and u woke up. and on top od it u invested some money in it and made some extra friends, rl ones or just in game (cuz playin 2 years and a half get's u there)
FYI HGMSpam warned people you will be banned for partying with Botters its the chance you take. They will also ban you if your afk in a botter group leecehing xp. Think of it as a real life conspiracy.
You might of not committed the murder but you knew they were going to kill someone and you didn't do anything to stop it. You are just as guilty as the person who committed the murder.
Not quite. The GM team works more like, if they know a murderer lives in a city, they nuke the city to take him out.
The GM team works more like, if they know a murderer lives in a city, they nuke the city to take him out.
Not really. The game still doesn't look like a glassy parking lot.
I am always a bit suspicious when it comes to "I didn't do it" cries. Specially when the member that suffered the ban, as well as his clan leader, had no posts in forums before and suddenly they went all community sensitive. This doesn't prove anything of course, but as I said, I am always suspicious.
I only have something to say. If there are bots in the game you can immediately locate them, but you do not want this.View you just want to make money and more money and you are- monopolists. NCSOFT. YOU
sry to say snake but thats the nekid truth... u can be banned for ne reason at anytime any where period.
The game and your toons belong to playNC. They can decide at any time to remove your access, period.
Frankly after close to 6 years in this game, I've come to the conclusion that if I was banned, I wouldn't even fight it. I've had so many issues and complaints about it that I'd just enjoy the final end to my addiction.
Hi ! I dont think that you people are realize your actual status in this game. See ncsoft may be the owner of your toon but you are the owner of ncsoft. Every one of you that gives money to play are investor in that comany and not only ncsoft we own all bots companys that profits from our desire to play easy way. If we decide to sop playing gues what will happend with ncsoft ant all bot-thirt party software companys... they will stop existing. So if ncsoft think that they can do whatever they want with game accauts and toons they are right but they cant afford that becouse they will lose us.
So ncsoft please do your job and dont ban honest people who dont use thirt party programs.
I promise from now on if something like this happents to my frend in game again i will quit that stupid game and leave ncsoft to do wathever they want with my minigles pile of pixels and poligons toon
Hi ! I dont think that you people are realize your actual status in this game. See ncsoft may be the owner of your toon but you are the owner of ncsoft.
Nope. The owner of NC West is in Korea.
Every one of you that gives money to play are investor in that comany
I don't think our money covers their expenses. It's just NC Korea that's too stubborn to close the unprofitable L2 NA/Euro business and that keeps subsidizing it.
You have just 1 account? Maybe NCsoft wanted to do their ban propaganda ("oh let's ban someone today to show people that we do ban people!") and randonly banned someone who had just 1 account, instead of the ppl that own 9, 18, 27 accounts and run bot trains.
Guess what, you give just $15 monthly to them, while some "pro" players give them 10+ more times than that. Ever wondered why u see bot trains running around for months w/o a single ban? Hehe. The truth is a bit obvious. The ppl that can't understand this are just naive, or simply can't accept the truth.
Loved all the great posts here. Enjoy the laughs, I've been 5+ years L2 player, actually quit for 2 yrs to pursue RL career ambition -- came back after good RL achievement... to continue my addiction.... "how sweet it is!!".... not. <gag gag>
My 0.02 here.
L2 is truly an addiction, if you don't admit it, you're lying. Most that still play now are totally loving the pain and pleasure all mixed up like great sex. But we all know where we still hang around? For different reasons.
For me, it's the challenge of achieving every level beyond 76, 77, 78, esp. 79 to 80. Obviously, no botting achievements. Besides the ultra boring grinds, PvP, Seiges, EPICs all add great dimensions to "that's why we pay our monthly dues...". Really and seriously, with all the botting issues, the REASON we stay after all the BS is there is some PRO that outweights the CON -- including our freaking narcotic addiction syndrome, the euphoric condition we feel during gameplay. Seriously, we all quit if the CON is more than we can bear but obviously, NcSOFT knows human nature and prey upon it, most EXCELLENTLY.
Anyways, I'm being vague because it's PRO vs. CON. Look, if we don't enjoy something and if the CON of bots, flames, whatever it is -- is too great, we're all be not here. Trust me, no one runs a losing business, as unprofitable as NA Lineage2 is, it has to be slightly profitable but not enough for Korea to care.
Enjoy the addiction folks, while it lasts. Because who knows one day, for reasons none of us like to accept, Lineage2 might go under -- and maybe not. All I know is, NcSoft has ignore certain botters quite obvious and I'll leave with one quote by Albert Einstein on the definition of insanity:
"doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -- like report botters. LOL!! I couldn't help myself.
Maybe NCsoft wanted to do their ban propaganda ("oh let's ban someone today to show people that we do ban people!") and randonly banned someone who had just 1 account, instead of the ppl that own 9, 18, 27 accounts and run bot trains.
(....) The truth is a bit obvious. The ppl that can't understand this are just naive, or simply can't accept the truth.
Maybe you are right and GM just get request ban "15 accounts today"
He just pick random and that one was legit ...
But what I see around me there is big probability that it is not like you say.
I know maaaaaaaaaaaaaany people who sharring accounts each other giving pwd to someone who they don't know. Funny is that one often give that pwd to someone else as well. In such chain is very easy to find some black sheep who attach beloved character in his bot train.
I know maaaaaaaaaaaaaany people who just use various 3rd software.
Not only ********, but all stuff to be better in PvP. To see in range 9999, to turn front to dagger etc. Are you ZolteR want to put your head that he NEVER wasn't using it?
I know so maaaaany people who admit that they e-bay... are you going say I'm SURE he wasn't?
Maybe Maroder (http://boards.lineage2.com/member.php?u=155709) is fair person, and it was just misunderstanding and in such case I wish you luck.
But ZolteR you pretending to be smart guy but you just falling vary badly.
Ofc NC care about money but if they want make JUST ONLY propaganda they can pick up any hero, investigate his logs and ban him in 99 %, not take just some unknown fellow 79....
It would be 10000 % more efficent than such actions.
P.S. Maroder (http://boards.lineage2.com/member.php?u=155709) ask for logs that prove that you have been using 3rd software or at least time/location where they 'catch' you.
Maybe your buffer account was mass petitioned by some ally or ... your old banned account was matched with your current one?
Maybe you are right and GM just get request ban "15 accounts today"
He just pick random and that one was legit ...
But what I see around me there is big probability that it is not like you say.
I know maaaaaaaaaaaaaany people who sharring accounts each other giving pwd to someone who they don't know. Funny is that one often give that pwd to someone else as well. In such chain is very easy to find some black sheep who attach beloved character in his bot train.
I know maaaaaaaaaaaaaany people who just use various 3rd software.
Not only ********, but all stuff to be better in PvP. To see in range 9999, to turn front to dagger etc. Are you ZolteR want to put your head that he NEVER wasn't using it?
I know so maaaaany people who admit that they e-bay... are you going say I'm SURE he wasn't?
Maybe Maroder (http://boards.lineage2.com/member.php?u=155709) is fair person, and it was just misunderstanding and in such case I wish you luck.
But ZolteR you pretending to be smart guy but you just falling vary badly.
Ofc NC care about money but if they want make JUST ONLY propaganda they can pick up any hero, investigate his logs and ban him in 99 %, not take just some unknown fellow 79....
It would be 10000 % more efficent than such actions.
P.S. Maroder (http://boards.lineage2.com/member.php?u=155709) ask for logs that prove that you have been using 3rd software or at least time/location where they 'catch' you.
Maybe your buffer account was mass petitioned by some ally or ... your old banned account was matched with your current one?
hmm, hero not, a major clan leader yes, since some ppl actually got heroes by getin feded and i knon few cases in wich heroes r legits; well they last only for one month heroes tho :)
Yes i completely agree with you that but there is to major problems with that policy.
1. You have to get a clear and straight forword explanation why you are banned with real evidence. Now i guess what can be wrong.
2. Ok if you are in party with with someone who is using a 3th party software they need to see is that a common practice or its kind of random party as SvinqProkleta mentioned.
Everything depends of the point of view.
I am with clear conscious and know that i am completely not guilty in that case.
But any way no matter of NCSoft decision the thinks will never be the same for me.
Probably that will sounds like a cliche but that was not just a game i found many friends and create lots of relationship in the past 2 years.
One game is popular not because of the graphics effects game play but because of the community that he have.
Anyway My idea about that post is not to cry or worn you for somthing , the idea was to ask if someone got a similar problem.
BordrX thanks alot for your suggestion i already contact the support desk but not reply in last 24 hours.
Sorry, no.
You do NOT have to get a complete and straight forward explanation of why you were banned with evidence.....
You (and I) can be banned at ANY TIME, for ANY reason or for no reason at all.
NCSoft OWNS the game and could decide on a whim to eliminate my account and not tell me a thing.
It would suck. But they are able to do anything they want to do with the account you are 'renting' from them.
As for "in a party with a bot but you don't know it"---really? At lvl 79 you don't know if a party member is PRESENT or botting?
Because I would know.
I'm guessing the more likely cause is that you knew very well you were leeching off a bot group, in which case I believe you should have made a better choice.
I'm all for this new level of crack-down by NCSoft and given all these posts lately, a whole bunch of "players" (read: cheating whimps) may as well just quit cause it appears the big, bad GM's are coming for you!
Will NCSoft perhaps get a "legit" in this net? Probably.
So, what's worse? 8 out of 10 players cheating indiscriminately with no worries--or 8 out of 10 players who cheated being scared straight (or banned) at the expense of a couple of mistaken legits?
The police sometimes arrest the wrong guy. There is a process for fixing that. We don't eliminate the police altogether and just decide to let crime run rampant because an innocent guy was mistakenly charged with a crime.
If you're innocent (and aren't they all?) then I suppose you will make your case and be reinstated.
If you were guilty, then good riddance and don't forget to tell your pals that they are next.
Hi ! I dont think that you people are realize your actual status in this game. See ncsoft may be the owner of your toon but you are the owner of ncsoft. Every one of you that gives money to play are investor in that comany and not only ncsoft we own all bots companys that profits from our desire to play easy way. If we decide to sop playing gues what will happend with ncsoft ant all bot-thirt party software companys... they will stop existing. So if ncsoft think that they can do whatever they want with game accauts and toons they are right but they cant afford that becouse they will lose us.
So ncsoft please do your job and dont ban honest people who dont use thirt party programs.
I promise from now on if something like this happents to my frend in game again i will quit that stupid game and leave ncsoft to do wathever they want with my minigles pile of pixels and poligons toon
I'm sorry, you are wrong. If you were a stockholder in NCSoft's parent company then you would be an owner. You are not an owner, you are a customer of NCSoft.
As for "in a party with a bot but you don't know it"---really? At lvl 79 you don't know if a party member is PRESENT or botting?
Because I would know.
I won't be surprised if NC West bans a party when some single toon in it has radar/CP shot spammer program.
Of course, if the GMs actually knew their game, that shouldn't be happening, but when it comes to NC West staff you can never be sure.
From all of the posts that i read in that topic i make one list with 3 sample rules that every legit player should follow to avoid ban.
1. NEVER NEVER play in party that may lead to ban. Think for Lineage 2 as single player game.
2. If you have more then 2 accounts NEVER send items between them. This is potential adena trading.
3. Its very important to make a screen casts of your game sessions. To do that you can use following software http://www.fraps.com/ (I hope that this software is not counted as 3th party software if it is you can record them with build in video recorder)
I won't be surprised if NC West bans a party when some single toon in it has radar/CP shot spammer program.
Of course, if the GMs actually knew their game, that shouldn't be happening, but when it comes to NC West staff you can never be sure.
Good point! It would be nearly impossible to know other 3rd party programs that all party-mates might be running in your group. If they are on full auto-play and you can't tell at level 79 then you need some remedial thinking--but as far as some of these other haxxx, yes, it would be impossible to know.
But then again, we don't have PROOF that anyone in this circumstance has been banned.
If I'm with xyz and abc and one of them (xyz-say) is using radar and I get banned, I would be angry.
My first guess (though of course I could be wrong here) is that nothing so passive was in play with the OP. Perhaps he's innocent as the newly driven snow--but past data doesn't bear that out as the most likely reason he was banned.
The most likely reason his account was banned is not a mistake--the most likely reason is that he was, indeed, personally caught in violating the EULA and that logs exist to prove that.
We'll never know.
From all of the posts that i read in that topic i make one list with 3 sample rules that every legit player should follow to avoid ban.
1. NEVER NEVER play in party that may lead to ban. Think for Lineage 2 as single player game.
2. If you have more then 2 accounts NEVER send items between them. This is potential adena trading.
3. Its very important to make a screen casts of your game sessions. To do that you can use following software http://www.fraps.com/ (I hope that this software is not counted as 3th party software if it is you can record them with build in video recorder)
I'm curious. Why do you say this?
Because the list of banned legit players is so impossibly long? Lmao. I've never heard, in a way that I believe to be true, of even ONE legit player being banned who did not get his/her account reinstated by NCSoft.
So there you have it--the innocent return to play (both of them) and the rest are apparently not-so-innocent.
Legit players have little to fear based on evidence of how many have been mistakenly banned.
The real problem is, there aren't too many legit players left. That's what REALLY has everyone's knickers in a twist imo.
Good point! It would be nearly impossible to know other 3rd party programs that all party-mates might be running in your group. If they are on full auto-play and you can't tell at level 79 then you need some remedial thinking--but as far as some of these other haxxx, yes, it would be impossible to know.
But then again, we don't have PROOF that anyone in this circumstance has been banned.
I know a few people actually. None the less.. they were quite upset at being banned for unknowingly party someone on 3rd party.
Of course they were upset Phoenix. I would be too (as I stated above). But the point is this: 1) it's NOT very frequent (certainly not any substantial % of banned accounts) and 2) they were acknowledged as being a mistake when they were offerred reinstatement.
This idea that innocent players are being banned right and left and somehow indiscriminantly is absurd.
That is not happening.
"MOST" players in this game cheat every week (if not day). I'm a bit short on sympathy as the ban hammer swings.
For those VERY few who are caught up mistakenly, of course it is a tragedy for them. We all wish that wouldn't happen.
But the playing community can't have it both ways either. EVERY SINGLE DAY in almost EVERY SINGLE POST, 90% of the posters on these forums complain that "NCSOFT won't do anything to botters/cheaters".
It's absolutely constant--a screaming, shouting, never-ending whine rant against NCSoft for being complacent and doing nothing.
They ban more and the FIRST posts we see are: "waaaa, I (my friend) was legit and mistakenly banned".
2 reactions from my viewpoint. 1) yeah right. and 2) well, 1 legit out of 2000 bans is a pretty good outcome (presuming one poster is even telling the truth).
I'm all for more bans. Widespread bans. And anyone who doesn't think these are going to dissproportionately fall on the "highest and mightiest" is kidding themself.
Of course they were upset Phoenix. I would be too (as I stated above). But the point is this: 1) it's NOT very frequent (certainly not any substantial % of banned accounts) and 2) they were acknowledged as being a mistake when they were offerred reinstatement.
This idea that innocent players are being banned right and left and somehow indiscriminantly is absurd.
That is not happening.
"MOST" players in this game cheat every week (if not day). I'm a bit short on sympathy as the ban hammer swings.
For those VERY few who are caught up mistakenly, of course it is a tragedy for them. We all wish that wouldn't happen.
But the playing community can't have it both ways either. EVERY SINGLE DAY in almost EVERY SINGLE POST, 90% of the posters on these forums complain that "NCSOFT won't do anything to botters/cheaters".
It's absolutely constant--a screaming, shouting, never-ending whine rant against NCSoft for being complacent and doing nothing.
They ban more and the FIRST posts we see are: "waaaa, I (my friend) was legit and mistakenly banned".
2 reactions from my viewpoint. 1) yeah right. and 2) well, 1 legit out of 2000 bans is a pretty good outcome (presuming one poster is even telling the truth).
I'm all for more bans. Widespread bans. And anyone who doesn't think these are going to dissproportionately fall on the "highest and mightiest" is kidding themself.
I want to put some of you at ease over getting your account “banned†because someone in your party was botting. However, before I do that, without being too specific, I do want to clarify that the support team did not action the OP because he was in a party with botters.
Being “banned†because of AFK XP leaching from botters…
Being in a party with botters is not a way for an account to be automatically closed. However, if you are in a party of 9, are AFK, and the other 8 members are all confirmed to be botting, our GMs may take action against your account. This is a pretty clear situation of a player knowingly benefiting from a bot party. If the situation is not quite this clear cut, but a few of the members of the party are confirmed as botting, our GMs may investigate your account further to see if you regularly group with bots and benefit on a regular basis from these types of groups.
We may check to see if you’ve been tested for botting and failed in the past. We may dig around a little to see if you are directly connected with any of the accounts that did fail our tests. In other words, if you party with bots, your account will likely get more attention than if you were partying with non-automated players.
The support team is only interested in catching people who routinely show a disregard for the game or the other players in the Lineage II community. We won’t instantly close the account just because you’re in a party with botters, but we will take some time and make an accurate assessment of the situation.
I’ll echo the words you’ll be hearing a lot of from now on. Play safe. Enjoy the game, but try not to associate yourself with those who routinely use third party programs to automate their game. We know this isn’t always easy to tell and we take the time necessary to fully investigate every situation.
I want to put some of you at ease over getting your account “banned†because someone in your party was botting. However, before I do that, without being too specific, I do want to clarify that the support team did not action the OP because he was in a party with botters.
Being “banned†because of AFK XP leaching from botters…
Being in a party with botters is not a way for an account to be automatically closed. However, if you are in a party of 9, are AFK, and the other 8 members are all confirmed to be botting, our GMs may take action against your account. This is a pretty clear situation of a player knowingly benefiting from a bot party. If the situation is not quite this clear cut, but a few of the members of the party are confirmed as botting, our GMs may investigate your account further to see if you regularly group with bots and benefit on a regular basis from these types of groups.
We may check to see if you’ve been tested for botting and failed in the past. We may dig around a little to see if you are directly connected with any of the accounts that did fail our tests. In other words, if you party with bots, your account will likely get more attention than if you were partying with non-automated players.
The support team is only interested in catching people who routinely show a disregard for the game or the other players in the Lineage II community. We won’t instantly close the account just because you’re in a party with botters, but we will take some time and make an accurate assessment of the situation.
I’ll echo the words you’ll be hearing a lot of from now on. Play safe. Enjoy the game, but try not to associate yourself with those who routinely use third party programs to automate their game. We know this isn’t always easy to tell and we take the time necessary to fully investigate every situation.
Will
So to sum up it may not been the first time the player was looked at but they had a history of shady circumstances which resulted in them getting banned. So you may avoid the ban hammer the first couple times your investigated but if you continue to do shady things eventually they will catch up to you or if you slip up.
I know they read people's chat histories, transactions histories etc. When I had my account reinstated HGMSpam had my chat logs and trade and sell history for the last 2 weeks and my IP logins. It is not like they didn't do the work but when they reviewed the history they found I was innocent and reinstated me account.
Being in a party with botters is not a way for an account to be automatically closed. However, if you are in a party of 9, are AFK, and the other 8 members are all confirmed to be botting, our GMs may take action against your account. This is a pretty clear situation of a player knowingly benefiting from a bot party.
awesome
say good bye to the days of sitting AFK in your 9 man train and thinking you were invincible
I want to put some of you at ease over getting your account “banned†because someone in your party was botting. However, before I do that, without being too specific, I do want to clarify that the support team did not action the OP because he was in a party with botters.
Being “banned†because of AFK XP leaching from botters…
Being in a party with botters is not a way for an account to be automatically closed. However, if you are in a party of 9, are AFK, and the other 8 members are all confirmed to be botting, our GMs may take action against your account. This is a pretty clear situation of a player knowingly benefiting from a bot party. If the situation is not quite this clear cut, but a few of the members of the party are confirmed as botting, our GMs may investigate your account further to see if you regularly group with bots and benefit on a regular basis from these types of groups.
We may check to see if you’ve been tested for botting and failed in the past. We may dig around a little to see if you are directly connected with any of the accounts that did fail our tests. In other words, if you party with bots, your account will likely get more attention than if you were partying with non-automated players.
The support team is only interested in catching people who routinely show a disregard for the game or the other players in the Lineage II community. We won’t instantly close the account just because you’re in a party with botters, but we will take some time and make an accurate assessment of the situation.
I’ll echo the words you’ll be hearing a lot of from now on. Play safe. Enjoy the game, but try not to associate yourself with those who routinely use third party programs to automate their game. We know this isn’t always easy to tell and we take the time necessary to fully investigate every situation.
Will
Yep it's nice that you clear the situation :) Only if all of the support do their jobs as they were supposed to, there will be no QQ-ing for banning players that don't deserve it. Good day and good luck > Cya all in Atlantica online and later this year in Tera :D
The support team is only interested in catching people who routinely show a disregard for the game or the other players in the Lineage II community.
Then why not with the users accept let us know what it is exactly they have done? You have banned some great members of the community that were a big loss to the community and the game in general, and for no apparent reason. (I mean you banned a legit guy who's highest character wasn't even 70 or something, despite having played since beta)
I would really like that you actually answer this question, it would really ease up on the suspicion that you ban a lot of innocent people.
So heres the leatest news from Maroder acc. ban problem. NC Support Team Leader had closed the case and wll be no further investigatoin.
Maroder stay banned !
NS support threat Maroder that if they see him to pay another accaunt it will be BANNED AGAIN !!!
I think that is the end of playing this game for me and other wery disappointed clan members.
I think that every one of you are in serious threat of bann with no reason !
So heres the leatest news from Maroder acc. ban problem. NC Support Team Leader had closed the case and wll be no further investigatoin.
Maroder stay banned !
NS support threat Maroder that if they see him to pay another accaunt it will be BANNED AGAIN !!!
I think that is the end of playing this game for me and other wery disappointed clan members.
I think that every one of you are in serious threat of bann with no reason !
First i wont to show you the entire support request conversation
<private conversation removed>
From here you can rate the ncsoft support service of you wont ( but i strongly suggestion to don't to that results may be unexpected )
You can see the response times you can see how clear and straight foreword are there answers, how mighty they are.
And because Will don't wont to reveal the technology how they detect BOTS i will try to do that.
I ask Maroder yesterday to rollback all the scenes befor he was banned here is what was happens.
they was 3 people in party in witch he was on alt character Berserker 60+... probably everyone know the "bugged" Eilhalder Von Hellmann guards witch spawns all over the aden such a guard spawns near them via next target thy catch him and start hiting few seconds after that they got disconnect (all the party ). They login again and continue to hunt the mobs in witch a minute after that they was disconnected again and 2/3 account was banned (war cryer and berseker ) was banned the last one is playable.
There is very strange logic in that kind of detection? what do you think ?
At this point question is that what happens wit maroder question is in general what what is going on. Maroder is very disappointed of the entire ncsoft service and probably will not come back anyway .
PS
If someone is interested to see the entire support request you can find in in TnT clan forum (http://l2-tnt.net) General Discussion
So heres the leatest news from Maroder acc. ban problem. NC Support Team Leader had closed the case and wll be no further investigatoin.
Maroder stay banned !
NS support threat Maroder that if they see him to pay another accaunt it will be BANNED AGAIN !!!
I think that is the end of playing this game for me and other wery disappointed clan members.
I think that every one of you are in serious threat of bann with no reason !
Actually there is a reason. maroder was leeching AFK in a bot party which is a good reason for BAN.. if u dont like this rule then just use quit button.
They decided to ally with us.. and I mean, they all agreed, because their previous allies were found on bot. They constantly ask me to report to Hekpo or Zedicus, if any members of them are found on bot. This is what I can tell from TnT.
I can't speak about Maroder as I've never partied with him, but I can say that the general mindset of TnT is to keep the clan clean.. and play the game like it's meant to be played. The only thing I can ask if for NC to review the logs.. and really check if he has the usual behaviour, that bots do.
F(...)
I ask Maroder yesterday to rollback all the scenes befor he was banned here is what was happens.
they was 3 people in party in witch he was on alt character Berserker 60+... probably everyone know the "bugged" Eilhalder Von Hellmann guards witch spawns all over the aden such a guard spawns near them via next target thy catch him and start hiting few seconds after that they got disconnect (all the party ).
Hmm do you mean those mobs who look like Raid-Fighters and disappear after first hit?
I always was trying to hit them but always they gone after 1 hit or even earlier... So look that I failed Bot test miserably. :p
But tbh I believed that is not any bot test just simple bug in game. Witch area is strange while above Catacombs in river you can sometimes find mobs walking.
Same applay Devotion when between 2x lvl mobs are passing 6x mobs :)
When you hit them you may be teleported inside cata or they just gone and same strange mob(s) spawning in rooms and disappear after while.
Such situation is at least 2 years .. so if it is bot test is not very enhanced :confused:.
P.S. HekpomaHka about your conversation with support- it stays one was using 3rd party programs.
Maybe it is not about bot? Maybe targeting hidden daggers or see through walls or using hide etc?
Thx Will for the explanation.
I find it kinda funny how such a thread stays alive, yet that of a certain innocent dwarf (yes drakkos for real ;) ), which now clearly was a ban by mistake, gets deleted everytime, tell me am i missing something here?
Thx Will for the explanation.
I find it kinda funny how such a thread stays alive, yet that of a certain innocent dwarf (yes drakkos for real ;) ), which now clearly was a ban by mistake, gets deleted everytime, tell me am i missing something here?
The good news is referenced Dwarf is unbanned, the bad news is that it took a week to do it.
Thx Will for the explanation.
I find it kinda funny how such a thread stays alive, yet that of a certain innocent dwarf (yes drakkos for real ;) ), which now clearly was a ban by mistake, gets deleted everytime, tell me am i missing something here?
Pretty much the same as the Stabby mess. At least it seems like this dwarf got unbanned then.
In the end...whether the person actually did bot or not, is in my mind a minor thing compared to the question as to why on earth NCSoft spends time banning these questionable bans, which cause ripple effects amongst legit and contributing members to L2, instead of focusing on the mindless bot trains, those of the elite that cheats badly and farmers...those are the true problem of L2.
Banning this guy, regardless of whether he did anything illegal or not, has no positive effect on L2 whatsoever, quite the contrary.
In the end...whether the person actually did bot or not, is in my mind a minor thing compared to the question as to why on earth NCSoft spends time banning these questionable bans, which cause ripple effects amongst legit and contributing members to L2, instead of focusing on the mindless bot trains, those of the elite that cheats badly and farmers...those are the true problem of L2.
Banning this guy, regardless of whether he did anything illegal or not, has no positive effect on L2 whatsoever, quite the contrary.
What kind of warped logic is that? What you 're effectively saying is don't ban this guy I know/like/doesn't bother me, go ban those other guys I dislike/bother me.
What kind of warped logic is that? What you 're effectively saying is don't ban this guy I know/like/doesn't bother me, go ban those other guys I dislike/bother me.
No... he is saying that there are cases that clearly deserve a ban and that these cases are ones that actually hurt the game experience for the paying customers. The time spent banning people that later are found to have been unfairly banned because of bad GM decisions could be used to ban the obvious cheats that grief the paying customer base on a regular basis.
Wether or not you believe that these questionable and reversed bans are due to some bias in the NCSoft staff is up to you, but clear cases of cata bot trains, crazy level kamaels and soulless nukers at Dino Isle are better use of scare resources than 5 year old level 78 dorfs.
No... he is saying that there are cases that clearly deserve a ban and that these cases are ones that actually hurt the game experience for the paying customers. The time spent banning people that later are found to have been unfairly banned because of bad GM decisions could be used to ban the obvious cheats that grief the paying customer base on a regular basis.
Wether or not you believe that these questionable and reversed bans are due to some bias in the NCSoft staff is up to you, but clear cases of cata bot trains, crazy level kamaels and soulless nukers at Dino Isle are better use of scare resources than 5 year old level 78 dorfs.
People that get caught get banned ... If you bot/break the eula and get caught you get banned, shouldn't make a difference if you 're a 6 year old account and are 70 level or a two month old 80 lvl HB train.
Here's a funny story ... about August or so I was helping a clannie do 3rd class. Bunch of us went to shrine, pked all the bots there etc. One of those bots was a solo destro in Tallum with a glowing Ipos.
December went through shrine again for another clannie ... pked the same destro in the same gear.
Two weeks ago guess what? Same destro, same gear was still in shrine killing mobs there. Clearly that is a dumb bot, obviously he isn't 85 level and has little impact on my gameplay. I wouldn't mind if he got banned though, being bad at botting isn't an excuse as you make it out to be.
Questionable bans ... if you 're referring to the manor bans, I 've said it in the two threads I 've seen about them, I know 2 people on 2 different servers that got hit and their bans were neither questionable nor undeserved. Only weird ban I 've ever heard of, and I 've mentioned it before, was a friend that was banned 2 years after he quit lineage and his account went inactive. Probably that one was nick confusion, if he cared enough to pursue it I think it would get reversed but ...
Overall though, everybody protests when their friends get banned, scream foul at the top of their lungs, protest their innocence ... 99% of those cases, week later the people protesting find out their "innocent" friend run a train on the side.
People that get caught get banned ... If you bot/break the eula and get caught you get banned, shouldn't make a difference if you 're a 6 year old account and are 70 level or a two month old 80 lvl HB train.
Agree wholeheartedly.
If the dorf to which I referred to was banned for breaking the EULA it should have stood, it didn't because... you know... he wasn't. The time and effort by NCSoft (not to mention my friend and my clan) could have been used to ban someone that was, you know, actually worthy of a ban...
This was the point of the post, there are extremely inadequate resources devoted to clearing out the bots and cheats in this game, I would like to see maximum results for the limited time put in. Blowing a bunch of time on a ban that is later reversed because the toon in question is wrongly banned doesn't seem like a good use of those resources.
Here's a funny story ... about August or so I was helping a clannie do 3rd class. Bunch of us went to shrine, pked all the bots there etc. One of those bots was a solo destro in Tallum with a glowing Ipos.
December went through shrine again for another clannie ... pked the same destro in the same gear.
Two weeks ago guess what? Same destro, same gear was still in shrine killing mobs there. Clearly that is a dumb bot, obviously he isn't 85 level and has little impact on my gameplay. I wouldn't mind if he got banned though, being bad at botting isn't an excuse as you make it out to be.
Should be banned, unquestionably. Is there better use of scare resources than banning this moron? I think so.
Questionable bans ... if you 're referring to the manor bans, I 've said it in the two threads I 've seen about them, I know 2 people on 2 different servers that got hit and their bans were neither questionable nor undeserved. Only weird ban I 've ever heard of, and I 've mentioned it before, was a friend that was banned 2 years after he quit lineage and his account went inactive. Probably that one was nick confusion, if he cared enough to pursue it I think it would get reversed but ...
Questionable in that, when pressed with the facts of the case, NCSoft unbans the toon. If the ban was made, it should stand up to a evaluation and stay in place. If the toon is unbanned, I would call into question the original motive for the ban, but I'm just that way.
Overall though, everybody protests when their friends get banned, scream foul at the top of their lungs, protest their innocence ... 99% of those cases, week later the people protesting find out their "innocent" friend run a train on the side.
I guess the case of my friend was that 1% because I protested, screamed that he was legit, protested his innocence and guess what? He's back.
BTW: Thank you NCSoft for doing the right thing. I admit I didn't have much faith but in the end truth prevailed.
I guess the case of my friend was that 1% because I protested, screamed that he was legit, protested his innocence and guess what? He's back.
BTW: Thank you NCSoft for doing the right thing. I admit I didn't have much faith but in the end truth prevailed.
I suspect those were blanket bans, they blocked all the people that affected skewed manors, then sat down and reviewed the logs and unbanned the innocent, although I doubt if that's the case they 'll tell you so.
In their defense, if that particular "business" worked as people are whispering it worked, they had to act pretty sharply, there's no telling at the amount of damage it could do to the game if 2-3-5 people escaped on "reasonable doubts". So while very disturbing for the people that got blocked for 3-5 days, there is a reasonable way to justify it. What's worse, destroying a whole server by allowing 5 people to exploit something or block 5 innocent people for a week? :)
I hadn’t planned on discussing this, but since the subject was brought back up... Those players were removed from the game due to some direct transactions that occurred between the players and confirmed Real Money Trade (RMT) dealers. The transactions were related to the Manor systems and those who controlled them. While we knew there are strong political strategies tied to setting up and participating in the Manor system, these transactions involved extreme excess in Adena and items, which threw red flags to our GM’s during their investigations. The accounts were believed to be directly tied to the RMT activity. Due to this, they were removed from the game. After further investigation and much deliberation, we did conclude that it was possible that the Manor owners could have been unaware of the activities of the RMT dealer. Because of this possibility, we decided to allow the Manor owners back into the game.
From this incident, I would like to stress upon everyone the movement our GM team has in identifying and removing accounts that are participating in or working with any RMT or third party program activities. If you are offered a deal that is too good to be true, please consider the potential source of the deal and make a safe decision. Please play safe.
HGM Will my only question as a clan leader is many times clannies of mine who quit game will dump all their gear and adena in my hands which if a GM was watching could raise red flags.
Do you take into account where the items are coming from and if there was previous interactions between the players?
I also don't want to be banned for sending adena and items through my accounts that are not on the same PlayNC name. I play by the rules just want to avoid any false positives prior to the situation arising.
I am assuming this only applies to people who trade with level 1 toons for like 5 billion adena without giving anything in return of value lol.
I used to dump all my stuffs into clan warehouse. never had any issue. Well, if your clannie turn around and reported he was ****.... than that might be another story..
It does related to my earlier posts, here is my take in that regard.
It sounds like your team got at least 1 RMT baddie, which is awesome. Go GO! The problem is it also sounds like a huge use of the limited manpower you have allocated to the task of cleaning up the game. This is a formidable challenge even with adequate resources as we have seen in the Aion experiences of GM Luminary's team. I contend that there are steps that could be taken that are MUCH better, more visible and have dramatically more impact on the paying customer than the research intensive method that was used in this operation.
For instance, the same amount of human capital used by this operation applied to running through bot-intensive areas (catas, Varkas, Dino Isle, FoG 4 way, Fields of Silence/Whispers) and banhammering the crazy-obvious bots would have a huge impact. Even if it was just a one time thing, it would still cause a bunch of folks to think twice...
For sheer bot tender horror, a cursory look at the current heros past would show at least a few easily proven bought or botted toons. A lot of bang for your buck there and would reclaim olympiad for the legit.
While you are at the bot fields banning the crazy-obvious, kill a few and see who comes to protect them. Fun for the whole family.
ha ha ha.. after reviewing the posts.. I guess my gut feeling was correct about the banned user coming to be boards QQing all over the place - when asked if he was in a AFK party, the response below was stated and see how he was trying to squirm out of it.. ...
That is the only possible reason but .. ok if that is the case GMs can very easy to check if the accounts a are on different IP addresses on different geological locations...
I don't know sounds very strange for me there is a missing logic...
After further investigation and much deliberation, we did conclude that it was possible that the Manor owners could have been unaware of the activities of the RMT dealer.
There's just no way that can be true. A manor with buy back price set at maximum would mean a huge loss for the owner. They would never do it unless they somehow got recompensated by the people exploiting and botting the manor, which was only possible after the manor update. If you checked your logs I think you would find that no manor owner has ever had buy back price set at maximum before the manor update that made this exploit possible.
Why would the manor owners suddenly overpay for crops by 20 times unless there was something to gain? And how could they possibly be unaware that the manor was being locked down by botters? They must have been very aware that they got recompensated for rasing the prices and helping farmers to exploit and bot the new manor system.
There's just no way that can be true. A manor with buy back price set at maximum would mean a huge loss for the owner. They would never do it unless they somehow got recompensated by the people exploiting and botting the manor, which was only possible after the manor update. If you checked your logs I think you would find that no manor owner has ever had buy back price set at maximum before the manor update that made this exploit possible.
Why would the manor owners suddenly overpay for crops by 20 times unless there was something to gain? And how could they possibly be unaware that the manor was being locked down by botters? They must have been very aware that they got recompensated for rasing the prices and helping farmers to exploit and bot the new manor system.
I'm really losing hope with this game.
Is it hard to believe that someone would strike up a deal about the buy back price in exchange for goods?
Is it hard to believe that someone would strike up a deal about the buy back price in exchange for goods?
No, not at all, but do you think it should be legal to take money from farmers to help them exploit the new manor system this way? By botting with max price set?
They were in effect partners with the farmers, sharing the profits from exploiting the manor.
they earned that castle they should be able to set prices at what they want its a dumb idea oh your helping other people by using the manor system that was put into the game no wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
If for example you set Gold Coba buyback at 8100 you get 1 VOP per Gold Coba turned in
If you control who turns in Gold Coba at your castle and say you can buy back 1000 of them a day somebody gets 1000 VOPs/Day at 8100 adena each (your cost)
On some servers (alive ones) that's close to a 100m / day profit on one seed alone and without going to extremes ... extremes would be buying back at 81000 which would equal 10 VOPs per fruit .. 10000 VOPS/Day ... you can do the math ... it's (close) to a billion of profit/day for the math challenged. For 1 crop.
If you can legitimatly do that for your clan (meaning you can legitimatly make sure your members turn in all the Gold Cobas you buy back) that's epic. You invest 80 million/day and get a billion worth of mats back.Snag is you can't without an army of dedicated bots spamming turn ins for you.
You get that if they catch on to people doing that with the help of RMTs they can't let it go on for a week while they investigate right?
they earned that castle they should be able to set prices at what they want its a dumb idea oh your helping other people by using the manor system that was put into the game no wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Well I don't really expect any "infamous" people to agree with me <.<
This is a good outcome. It shows that the GMs are careful, dedicated and really mean business. At the same time, when rare circumstances demand it, they consider the unusual situation and are willing to examine their own actions and reverse course. I am sure that it is VERY RARE that they have to do this, but it is also a comfort that they are smart enough and willing enough to do it when appropriate.
The manor dwarf in questions is a brilliant person who may well have figured out a system that takes the rest of us some time to fully understand...and which many minds will never be able to understand.
TY head GM for a good decision and for explaining it.
The manor dwarf in questions is a brilliant person who may well have figured out a system that takes the rest of us some time to fully understand...and which many minds will never be able to understand.
Yeah, no one will ever be able to figure it out, how the manor owners on several servers worked out a "special way" to make money with the new manor system.
[..] direct transactions that occurred between the players and confirmed Real Money Trade (RMT) dealers [..] [..] transactions involved extreme excess in Adena and items [..]
They were only let go because:
[..] it was possible that the Manor owners could have been unaware of the activities of the RMT dealer [..]
So they just didn't know they were dealing with botters. Hah, how brilliant, when everyone else using the manor knew. I wonder how they managed to stay so ignorant.
There's just no way that can be true. A manor with buy back price set at maximum would mean a huge loss for the owner. They would never do it unless they somehow got recompensated by the people exploiting and botting the manor, which was only possible after the manor update. If you checked your logs I think you would find that no manor owner has ever had buy back price set at maximum before the manor update that made this exploit possible.
Why would the manor owners suddenly overpay for crops by 20 times unless there was something to gain? And how could they possibly be unaware that the manor was being locked down by botters? They must have been very aware that they got recompensated for rasing the prices and helping farmers to exploit and bot the new manor system.
I'm really losing hope with this game.
As one of the said manor lords, I'll even post my petition I logged when I got banned.
My Lineage II account was banned today with no notice or reason. My account has been in good standing since May of 2004 and I have never done anything to jeopardize that. I do not bot, purchase adena, or use 3rd party programs. After some inquiries to other players, I was told that if I had any contact with a player named Ribanna, then that was the reason I was banned. My only contact with this player was when he contacted me to change the manor system (as my clan held Goddard Castle at the time). In exchange for setting up certain crops for the max buyback price allowed, he would exchange some of the mats that he got + the cost of upkeep of the manor. I saw nothing wrong with this, as it appeared he only wanted to maximize the profit available from the manor system and it would cost the clan nothing to increase the buyback of crops. This is the only contact I had with this player. He would send me an in-game mail nightly with the adena to put in the castle vault to keep the manor going, and a few mats from the manor. I did nothing wrong, and was unaware that this player was doing anything illegal. Basically, how was I to know that this person was turning in their seeds using 3rd party programs? Or that he was doing it across multiple servers? I've played this game for 5 and a half years, during that time, I've beaten farmers whenever I wanted to turn seeds in. It's not hard to have a world clock up on a browser and clicking.
To Be Honest, when you look at the other things that clan / ally leaders are dealing with in game, some random guy pming you and asking you to max out a buyback price for a few crops doesn't really register on your radar. I've been pm'd by tons of people in the past to adjust my manor prices. This didn't seem like a big deal, and the guy even offered to pay the difference for the upkeep, which is more than anyone else has offered. I'll know better next time.
In my opinion, blanket banning is wrong. Yea, you may get a ton of violators, but is it worth the inevitable legit players that may get caught up in it? That depends on your outlook, I suppose. I understand that NCSoft wants to get rid of RMT violators. Hell, I see this a HUGE step towards cleaning up the game. However, they made a mistake in this case, and they took steps to rectify the situation and I am thankful for that. I was banned on Tuesday, my petition was investigated and I was unbanned by Friday. This is a lot faster than the time I've heard of these things taking in the past. I see this as a positive step towards the future of L2. Though, if you had asked me sometime between Tuesday and Friday of last week, my response would have been totally different. :)
EDIT:
In retrospect, I understand the reasoning behind the mass freezing of accounts in order to fully investigate the situation. My only complaint about the whole ordeal would be the fact that the banned players were kept in the dark. :(
Hi Karigan! I was also banned for the same scenario as she was, and unbanned upon further investigation. Although the whole process of waiting a few days to get unbanned, without much insight is annoying, I have yet to see a situation in which NcSoft has banned someone without any reason or justification.
As one of the said manor lords, I'll even post my petition I logged when I got banned.
Basically, how was I to know that this person was turning in their seeds using 3rd party programs? Or that he was doing it across multiple servers? I've played this game for 5 and a half years, during that time, I've beaten farmers whenever I wanted to turn seeds in. It's not hard to have a world clock up on a browser and clicking.
To Be Honest, when you look at the other things that clan / ally leaders are dealing with in game, some random guy pming you and asking you to max out a buyback price for a few crops doesn't really register on your radar. I've been pm'd by tons of people in the past to adjust my manor prices. This didn't seem like a big deal, and the guy even offered to pay the difference for the upkeep, which is more than anyone else has offered. I'll know better next time.
In my opinion, blanket banning is wrong. Yea, you may get a ton of violators, but is it worth the inevitable legit players that may get caught up in it? That depends on your outlook, I suppose. I understand that NCSoft wants to get rid of RMT violators. Hell, I see this a HUGE step towards cleaning up the game. However, they made a mistake in this case, and they took steps to rectify the situation and I am thankful for that. I was banned on Tuesday, my petition was investigated and I was unbanned by Friday. This is a lot faster than the time I've heard of these things taking in the past. I see this as a positive step towards the future of L2. Though, if you had asked me sometime between Tuesday and Friday of last week, my response would have been totally different. :)
EDIT:
In retrospect, I understand the reasoning behind the mass freezing of accounts in order to fully investigate the situation. My only complaint about the whole ordeal would be the fact that the banned players were kept in the dark. :(
I'm just finding it funny that no manor owners know anything, when I over 2 months ago in this very forum, wrote about how bots now monopolize the manor (New "improved" manor (now a botters' exclusive) (http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=206449)). I even directly asked a castle lord what was going on, why he had set the crops price to max, but got told to mind my own business.
I'm sure you know how the new manor system works. With the update from before xmas a "world clock" does nothing to help you since the reset time now is random. You can't set up the sell process in advance and just click one time to win, but have to do a 6 step process as quickly as possible when the random reset time occurs. No atomic clock, or lightning fast reflexes will beat a bot which finish in the blink of an eye. You can not beat bots anymore. Since the update botting is effectively a fool proof way of winning every time.
This is why you were approached, because of the new manor system and way you can be guaranteed to win by botting. The farmers knew this almost right away and started exploiting it by paying manor lords to max out the crops price. Let this be clear. This isn't something that has happend once or twice. It's been going on day after day since the manors were changed in the update before christmas. On Sayha manor owners had their manor price set to max for months on end, which means they got payed during all that time. We're talking 10s of billions if not 100s of billions of adena and mats.
I guess greed turns a blind eye or 10. I know no one will ever admit knowing anything about any botters at all. That would be crazy at this point.
And what if manor managers don't read General Discussion forums all the time? You've never pm'd me. Are you responsible for doing so? No. Neither was I responsible for investigating everyone that pm's me or offers me a deal. You do what you can, and I do the same.
And in actuality, no I didn't realize the turn in times were now random. I have no need to ever use the manor again except on the castle-owner side of things.
The mass ban is an indication that NCSoft is looking into things, so what is your complaint? That they took the time to investigate everyone they banned and unbanned the ones they felt didn't know what was going on? That's ludicrous.
Interesting read, I was wondering why some buy backs where so high for other castles when I went to adjust Gludio a few days ago. Its been a while since I have turned in fruit for mats doing the same as Karigan waiting for 8:06 CST to roll over. I never did understand why NCSoft set the limit to the buy back of a fruit less then the possible production from the seed. Making a glut of fruit worse every day would seem to destroy the usefulness of the system. NCSoft still needs to rework the castle rewards for the manor, you cant get EWS/EAS from it, the Cubic Quest makes half the fruit almost worthless to buy back. Its funny to look back at my spreadsheets back in 2005 running the manor for EpochInc and see how much prices have changed.
People WYF are u talking about ? Who cares the manor manager system ? Heres talking about people banned with not proven reason becouse of som stupid ******ed GM test.
They dont say that Maroder is banned on base on their logs or background investigation but on base on one stupid handmaden test that obviously cant see difference between bot program and real person.
People WYF are u talking about ? Who cares the manor manager system ? Heres talking about people banned with not proven reason becouse of som stupid ******ed GM test.
They dont say that Maroder is banned on base on their logs or background investigation but on base on one stupid handmaden test that obviously cant see difference between bot program and real person.
Well, there's certainly hope that NCSoft has improved their procedures over the years, though that doesn't help messy situations of the past.
I've witnessed some quite incredible mess-ups by NCSoft over the years in regards to banning. Like even at one point they banned several clan members of a clan, but the banned ones were all (except one) completely legit, while the cheaters in the same clan were untouched...sad. (And they still to this day play)
Then some completely stupid bans like Stabby McStoo. Which caused L2 NA to lose its only true artist and comic strip maker. For a long time this ban caused more damage to the L2 community than 20 bot trains.
A final note...which a lot of people don't like to hear. But its funny to read "legits" here on the forum cry out "burn the witches, burn the witches", when they themselves actually cheat...pretty sad *sigh*
Well, there's certainly hope that NCSoft has improved their procedures over the years, though that doesn't help messy situations of the past.
I've witnessed some quite incredible mess-ups by NCSoft over the years in regards to banning. Like even at one point they banned several clan members of a clan, but the banned ones were all (except one) completely legit, while the cheaters in the same clan were untouched...sad. (And they still to this day play)
Then some completely stupid bans like Stabby McStoo. Which caused L2 NA to lose its only true artist and comic strip maker. For a long time this ban caused more damage to the L2 community than 20 bot trains.
A final note...which a lot of people don't like to hear. But its funny to read "legits" here on the forum cry out "burn the witches, burn the witches", when they themselves actually cheat...pretty sad *sigh*
So your points are: .........?
NCSoft gets 'some' bans wrong so that means they suck.
There are some players "important to L2" who shouldn't be banned if they cheat.
A lot of so-called legit players actually cheat.
That about cover it?
1) So they get it wrong sometimes. They also ban what probably amounts to thousands of accounts per month. And it appears MOST of those are righteous. Hey, even the FBI arrests the wrong guy once in awhile--we don't decide to do away with the FBI or tell that agency "just stop arresting bad guys cause you screwed up a couple times".
2) No. This statement is beneath you. This is arguing that Adolf ****** "made the trains run on time--so he had 'some' value..." No.
3) Not exactly a newsflash. I'd guess 8 or 9 of every 10 players cheat. I agree with you on the point, however.
1) So they get it wrong sometimes. They also ban what probably amounts to thousands of accounts per month. And it appears MOST of those are righteous. Hey, even the FBI arrests the wrong guy once in awhile--we don't decide to do away with the FBI or tell that agency "just stop arresting bad guys cause you screwed up a couple times".
2) No. This statement is beneath you. This is arguing that Adolf ****** "made the trains run on time--so he had 'some' value..." No.
3) Not exactly a newsflash. I'd guess 8 or 9 of every 10 players cheat. I agree with you on the point, however.
~D~
1) You have no idea how many they actually ban and how many of them are actually right. Of course the vast vast majority of L2 players cheat in some form or another, so they could be shooting blind and still hit most of the time.
2) Oh right, because thats like Adolf ******...bringing ****sm and the death of millions into a conversation and comparing it to cheating in L2 is absolutely ludicrous.
And yes, considering that the vast vast majority of L2 cheats in some form or another, and there are much more damaging cheats and cheaters out there...it makes absolutely no sense to for almost any reason to ban community high points or the very few who actually does something here, all that does is damage the game irrevocably sometimes with no benefits coming from it at all.
In all seriousness, had for instance Stabby actually cheated (which its 98% certain he didn't), then I'd rather have that and 10 bot trains where I hunt, than to have lost so much in the community.
Bots are a part of L2 and always have been, we live with them, we always have...to act like its some sort of **** 9/11 style sin now is silly to say the least.
3. Well, exactly, which also means that blindly banning hasn't and won't help the game at all.
Well, there's certainly hope that NCSoft has improved their procedures over the years, though that doesn't help messy situations of the past.
I've witnessed some quite incredible mess-ups by NCSoft over the years in regards to banning. Like even at one point they banned several clan members of a clan, but the banned ones were all (except one) completely legit, while the cheaters in the same clan were untouched...sad. (And they still to this day play)
Then some completely stupid bans like Stabby McStoo. Which caused L2 NA to lose its only true artist and comic strip maker. For a long time this ban caused more damage to the L2 community than 20 bot trains.
A final note...which a lot of people don't like to hear. But its funny to read "legits" here on the forum cry out "burn the witches, burn the witches", when they themselves actually cheat...pretty sad *sigh*
I agree that all sorts of people cheat like crazy....why...... because they use this game to earn a living (if you want to call it that). Know what...i bet even CEOs of gaming sites do it.
1) You have no idea how many they actually ban and how many of them are actually right. Of course the vast vast majority of L2 players cheat in some form or another, so they could be shooting blind and still hit most of the time.
2) Oh right, because thats like Adolf ******...bringing ****sm and the death of millions into a conversation and comparing it to cheating in L2 is absolutely ludicrous.
And yes, considering that the vast vast majority of L2 cheats in some form or another, and there are much more damaging cheats and cheaters out there...it makes absolutely no sense to for almost any reason to ban community high points or the very few who actually does something here, all that does is damage the game irrevocably sometimes with no benefits coming from it at all.
In all seriousness, had for instance Stabby actually cheated (which its 98% certain he didn't), then I'd rather have that and 10 bot trains where I hunt, than to have lost so much in the community.
Bots are a part of L2 and always have been, we live with them, we always have...to act like its some sort of **** 9/11 style sin now is silly to say the least.
3. Well, exactly, which also means that blindly banning hasn't and won't help the game at all.
1. And you have no idea either.
2. You suggested that "bad guys doing good = relatively good". Don't get caught up in the details of the analogy--that is just blatent diffusion to evade the argument. Bad guys who incidentally do good are NOT good. A guy who cheats on his income taxes and drops $10 in the collection plate at church is not a good guy (like that analogy better?)
3. The literally handful of anecdotal posts on these forums over the years do not equate to the statement that NCSoft is "blindly banning". In fact, it suggests EXACTLY the opposite-that NCSoft is banning (and we know they have been, sometimes actively, for a very long time) and that very few are outraged/mistaken and try to take their case public.
There is no evidence, beyond the anecdotal "my friend was banned and I KNOW he was legit" B.S. comments to suggest that bans are blind. It appears in nearly every case that more than one technique was utilized by the in-game staff to ascertain cheating BEFORE a ban is made. That's not blind. That's actually targeted and rational.
No one can call me an NCSoft fanboi. I think they've screwed up a good product, have the poorest customer service in the industry, and have absolutely no development plan for their platform (and never have had).
I criticize them constantly.
But I also appreciate accuracy. To suggest that all they do is to "blindly ban" players is simply unsupported.
I would imagine that bad nasty company NC Soft banned him for nothing...like all the others that got banned...not that i know any of then.......... but whatever.
i have him as a friend on Facebook. he was banned for 3rd party program use, however he was not botting, and not shout-botting, nor pvp botting. he was banned way back in C4 in the age that preceeded illustrious use of pvp bots.
he has not pursued the issue, leaving Online gaming almost entirely. he doesnt even have an 80 in wow.
What's worse, destroying a whole server by allowing 5 people to exploit something or block 5 innocent people for a week?1) letting 5 ppl exploiting something won't destroy a server community.
2) Depends, if 1 up to 5 of those innocent ppl are well known by the server community, then yes this will hurt the community by alot and dmg the trust towards the way bans are considered, this dmg will restore for a big part if there was an reasonable explanation made and those innocent ppl unbanned. ;)
for example:
Then some completely stupid bans like Stabby McStoo. Which caused L2 NA to lose its only true artist and comic strip maker. For a long time this ban caused more damage to the L2 community than 20 bot trains.
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I hope this clear up the rumors and speculations.
WillThx for your time, good to read the official word on this issue.
Also thx Mae for your solid posts <3
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I suggest u not to try to prove your innocence. cuz everytime u try to prove your innocence GMs prove that u are guilty more than we think.I suggest you read before making such an ignorant remark, as you can see some ppl do get (temp)banned by accident, not much but it does happen.
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Wow. Okay this guy got his account back as explained very well by HGM Will. This thread needs to be closed.This was my bad for going slightly offtopic, as it was about another ban.
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No, not at all, but do you think it should be legal to take money from farmers to help them exploit the new manor system this way? By botting with max price set?
They were in effect partners with the farmers, sharing the profits from exploiting the manor.I think you've got the "bot/manor problem" in your mind when reading each post, clear your mind and read again, it's possible some things aren't bot related, there are some true innocents out there.
Like Karigan said, it might be possible that you read too much about these complains that adjusts your vision on these matters.
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And what if manor managers don't read General Discussion forums all the time? You've never pm'd me. Are you responsible for doing so? No. Neither was I responsible for investigating everyone that pm's me or offers me a deal. You do what you can, and I do the same.
And in actuality, no I didn't realize the turn in times were now random. I have no need to ever use the manor again except on the castle-owner side of things.
The mass ban is an indication that NCSoft is looking into things, so what is your complaint? That they took the time to investigate everyone they banned and unbanned the ones they felt didn't know what was going on? That's ludicrous.Good post :)
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So your points are: .........?
There are some players "important to L2" who shouldn't be banned if they cheat.
2) No. This statement is beneath you. This is arguing that Adolf ****** "made the trains run on time--so he had 'some' value..." No.Drakkos :)
Not trying to offend you but;
That statement would be indeed beneath LC, IF he was saying that.., point is he didn't mention anything about "players who shouldn't be banned if they cheat"
Please re-read what he actually said in the quote below with a clear mind :
I've witnessed some quite incredible mess-ups by NCSoft over the years in regards to banning. Like even at one point they banned several clan members of a clan, but the banned ones were all (except one) completely legit, while the cheaters in the same clan were untouched...sad. (And they still to this day play)
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I agree that all sorts of people cheat like crazy....why...... because they use this game to earn a living (if you want to call it that). Know what...i bet even CEOs of gaming sites do it.Don't try making false contradictious comments. This ain't blah. ;)
using the L2wh sniffer was a 3rd party program too.
As are Vent, TS, diverse chat programs, all 3rd party programs which are (mostlikely) used to enchant your efficientcy in gameplay directly.
L2wh sniffer doesn't have this effect in a direct way, but indirectly over a long period (for all the community), but not going further into that matter.
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Thx Will for the explanation.
I find it kinda funny how such a thread stays alive, yet that of a certain innocent dwarf (yes drakkos for real ;) ), which now clearly was a ban by mistake, gets deleted everytime, tell me am i missing something here?
Hey Nuku just a FYI, that certain dwarf was unbanned. He was however told that he would be banned again if he ever did ingame trades with known RMT people(how he should know this is beyond me).Just if you didnt know!! So those deleted posts might have had some effect after all.
1) letting 5 ppl exploiting something won't destroy a server community.
2) Depends, if 1 up to 5 of those innocent ppl are well known by the server community, then yes this will hurt the community by alot and dmg the trust towards the way bans are considered, this dmg will restore for a big part if there was an reasonable explanation made and those innocent ppl unbanned. ;)
for example:
Sure it does, there was an adena exploit in the euro servers about a year + ago, servers are still out of whack ...
So ... it's ok if a friend of yours helps a bot lord generate a few billion adena per day, because he is well known by you. And therefore in some perverse way "invaluable" to the community cause hmm you say so.Gotcha.
Those that got unbanned got unbanned on the presumption of innocence, meaning ok I give you the benefit of the doubt that you couldn't figure out what was going on BUT if I see another dude exploiting your manor guess what? You ll get banned again.
Those that got unbanned got unbanned on the presumption of innocence, meaning ok I give you the benefit of the doubt that you couldn't figure out what was going on BUT if I see another dude exploiting your manor guess what? You ll get banned again.
Hey Nuku just a FYI, that certain dwarf was unbanned.I know :)
Sure it does, there was an adena exploit in the euro servers about a year + ago, servers are still out of whack...the server or part of it's ppl? ;)
Not all ppl playing are out of whack by that, ask around.
Server out of whack: 1/2 (giving it a half thumb up :))
Server destroyed: 0
So ... it's ok if a friend of yours helps a bot lord generate a few billion adena per day, because he is well known by you. And therefore in some perverse way "invaluable" to the community cause hmm you say so.Gotcha.Why do you reply on something i haven't said?
I clearly wasn't talking about a bot lord, was i?
I can't help how you read my post, try reading what i'm actually saying in that post, ok?
I've bolded the parts in your post that i haven't mentioned at all but are your own additions to your reply.
Don't try twisting words.
+1
Read some of Nuku's other posts...don't take long to figure out which side of the line he's from.Narrowminded sigh...
Yes please do read some of my other posts!
Then go compare them with yours.
Try to be contructive and non-flaming for once in your lifetime ;)
Well "Nuku" Mr Muffin Man you constantly defend automated play saying you could care less. I got that...you don't have to keep repeating it. We all get it.
^o^
SOP
Oh and i still think you have a fine singing voice.
Well "Nuku" Mr Muffin Man you constantly defend automated play saying you could care less. I got that...you don't have to keep repeating it. We all get it.
^o^
SOP
Oh and i still think you have a fine singing voice.
Got the BMW yet?
Where did i ever say or let something out that i defend automated play? Please show us, quote it if you can :)
FYI, i'm disgust automated play.
If you have any other 'problems' with me or want to flame me, please do so in PM's ty :)
using the L2wh sniffer was a 3rd party program too.
Also using a zoom **** or other hacks for the game were bannable offenses all non bot programs.
Stabby was not in a clan that sieged, and didnt try to craft things, or put together his own pve groups trying to hunt for drops. he played as a pickup BD. zoom ****? he must have been posting screenshots of extreme zooms, cause i can point to several players who have ALSO posted zoom screens and have never been banned. the icing on the cake is, they QUIT and sold their gear.
if he was banned for using L2wh sniffer then he's the only one that was ever caught with a packet sniffer program. NC should submit this catching method to the feds, cause packet sniffing is not something you can detect as it does not interact with the server.
I suggest you read before making such an ignorant remark, as you can see some ppl do get (temp)banned by accident, not much but it does happen.
I am sure that there are ppl who are getting ban without no reason and I agree with u on that.. I have seen many ppl getting ban because they have PK'ed mini party'es of dominator clans.. and clan made mass petition as a whole clan each member from 5-10 accounts...
moreover i didnt refer to every banned person with that message.. i only refereed to that guy..
if u read my all posts in this topic firstly I believed his innocence and told him to call ncsoft west office..
but after HGM said that he was botting and guy tried to reject that and to prove his innocence and HGM said that he was helping to RMT..
so i told him not to try to prove because i am sure if he tries HGM will bring another reason..
I have friends that were closed because they were in party with those unmention able, and of course, the initial reason was due to usable of xxx. However, those people in the party were actually contributing to RMT, so he was giving both reason. If your friends happened to be in the same situation.. well, that might explain it. Never party with someone you do not know 100%.
I must be below average intelligence I guess. If I was approached by some unknown dude that wanted to pay me to max the price on something he was in no way sure to win, I would be pretty much uh.... ok your loss.
Now if this guy approached me, again and again and kept paying me to have the manor at max for several weeks, months even, and the money kept adding up to be on GM quote "extreme excess" levels, I guess I would still be a dumb and never question how he kept winning over everyone else and their mother. Even though those max prices was sure to draw just about any other manor user on the server to that manor, and the competition would be borderline insane.
But no, not even once, would I consider botting as a way to guarantee winning. Or maybe the truth is that the smell of money would just be sufficient to convince my brain that it was better not to think too hard about it. No of course not, I'm just too dumb for that kind of thinking, I would probably just whistle and take the money and close my eyes to the way this game works.
I must be below average intelligence I guess. If I was approached by some unknown dude that wanted to pay me to max the price on something he was in no way sure to win, I would be pretty much uh.... ok your loss.
Now if this guy approached me, again and again and kept paying me to have the manor at max for several weeks, months even, and the money kept adding up to be on GM quote "extreme excess" levels, I guess I would still be a dumb and never question how he kept winning over everyone else and their mother. Even though those max prices was sure to draw just about any other manor user on the server to that manor, and the competition would be borderline insane.
But no, not even once, would I consider botting as a way to guarantee winning. Or maybe the truth is that the smell of money would just be sufficient to convince my brain that it was better not to think too hard about it. No of course not, I'm just too dumb for that kind of thinking, I would probably just whistle and take the money and close my eyes to the way this game works.
I must be below average intelligence I guess. If I was approached by some unknown dude that wanted to pay me to max the price on something he was in no way sure to win, I would be pretty much uh.... ok your loss.
Now if this guy approached me, again and again and kept paying me to have the manor at max for several weeks, months even, and the money kept adding up to be on GM quote "extreme excess" levels, I guess I would still be a dumb and never question how he kept winning over everyone else and their mother. Even though those max prices was sure to draw just about any other manor user on the server to that manor, and the competition would be borderline insane.
But no, not even once, would I consider botting as a way to guarantee winning. Or maybe the truth is that the smell of money would just be sufficient to convince my brain that it was better not to think too hard about it. No of course not, I'm just too dumb for that kind of thinking, I would probably just whistle and take the money and close my eyes to the way this game works.
Coth what are you talking for absolutely different from this thread subject. I will repeat myself again and tell you that the subject of this thread is for legit people whom eat ban with no proven reason !
So over the course of 5+ years, a couple supposedly "innocent" bans occur.
Why is that a serious topic? I can see why it would be serious for those couple of folks wrongly punished--but not for the community as a whole.
It's rather like arguing that "the # of earthworms that may be killed by falling space satelites is too high!"
.......okaaaaaay. Not really sure what else to say to that. Perhaps there have been too many senseless deaths for earthworms, but it doesn't seem to be too much of a problem overall...
On the serious note; There have been mistakes in the past where innocent people have gotten the unwanted dirty boot to the face. But after further reasoning by customers and investigations by NCsoft, they were unbanned. So, if these people are indeed innocent, I'm sure they would get access back to their accounts. Otherwise stop the bold face lies. You got caught.
I agree that all sorts of people cheat like crazy....why...... because they use this game to earn a living (if you want to call it that). Know what...i bet even CEOs of gaming sites do it.
Its entirely possible.
Though not me, as I haven't really been playing much at all since the Kamael expansion and heck my highest level character is level 69 or something. And my entire fortune is quite pitiful by todays standards. No S grade, no S80, no Vesper, no whatnot.
And running EOGamer is basically one huge money sink for me, I don't earn even a dime of it, though I pay a lot to it.
Hi GM Will, you haven't dealt with me, YET. Spam and Pommo have dealt with me on many occasions over the years (Ask them, I am sure I am a memorable experience). I would like to say that you guys appear to be doing a much better job now than in the past. I do not know if this is because their are less bots to deal with or you guys are just banning more, but their are far less bots in game now.
There have been cases in the past where people were banned and then unbanned. FOr example a friend of mine was banned for training a raid boss into giran and the GM's made an example of him by banning him. I had done this previously many times and no ban, but I guess a billion people complained of all the dead bodies in giran and all the items these dead bodies dropped went in my and friends inventories LOL. So they made that an illegal action and banned my friend but unbanned him a few months later. I have also know of people being mistakenly banned for botting and then being unbanned.
I like the attitude of banning people who blatantly support RMT or take advantage of accounts (they probably even own themselves) that bot. I just wish these ideas were in the game years ago before World Of Warcraft came out. This game could very well have a million subscribers in North America right now if that was the case. Hopefully NCSoft will not repeat these same mistakes early on in the game when Lineage III comes out.
On the topic of being investigated for botting. I have been under investigation myself on a few occasions in the last few months. I am 100% anti bot and anti RMT and have had no ill effects from these investigations and actually enjoy it to know the GM's are doing their job. The harder programs to check for are used for pvp purposes. I will not name them but they do things like auto target, auto face player when dagger stab attack incoming, auto detect enemies, auto cp pot spam, auto heal pot spam, auto bsoe, etc.... I could offer help in improving detection for these types of 3rd party applications.
I could go on forever, but I won't.
Keep up the good work and don't ban me by mistake lol
Though not me, as I haven't really been playing much at all since the Kamael expansion and heck my highest level character is level 69 or something. And my entire fortune is quite pitiful by todays standards. No S grade, no S80, no Vesper, no whatnot.
And running EOGamer is basically one huge money sink for me, I don't earn even a dime of it, though I pay a lot to it.
You were saying that people that were claiming to be legit actually are cheating
I was just agreeing that this is the internet where everyone can be whatever they want to be.
Someone could be pretendening to be a huge help to the community...meanwhile they bot, sell adena and basically they ruin the game for their own personal wealth.
As far as you personally are concerned...i would not know what you have and what you don't or what Alts you play. You might be as pure as the driven snow or could be the biggest Adena seller in L2. So could i. No player knows for sure.
Only Lineage 2 knows for sure cause they have the logs and i assune they have been investigating for a while.
while you make a logical point and a good post, T, i think its safe to say putting up that front would not be characteristic nor typical among the L2 community.
high levels tend to have low postcounts. bots tend to know squat, and never talk to people especially in forums where they can be exposed. when you know something you dont fake it and ask questions, or forfeit a match to prove otherwise; you stick to what you know.
ive been a scammer on Aria for a few years. true story.
You were saying that people that were claiming to be legit actually are cheating
I was just agreeing that this is the internet where everyone can be whatever they want to be.
Someone could be pretendening to be a huge help to the community...meanwhile they bot, sell adena and basically they ruin the game for their own personal wealth.
As far as you personally are concerned...i would not know what you have and what you don't or what Alts you play. You might be as pure as the driven snow or could be the biggest Adena seller in L2. So could i. No player knows for sure.
Only Lineage 2 knows for sure cause they have the logs and i assune they have been investigating for a while.
There are multitudes of reasons as to why people bot, buy adena, etc. I know, because of my none interference with these things, people are really open behind the scenes about what they truly do, so I know quite a lot both from n00b player perspective, but also from the true powerplayers perspective and everyone in between.
And you know what, if someone i knew that ran a fansite made lots of EULA violations I wouldn't give a hoot, their contributions are far to meaningful and beneficial to the community for me to ban them for anything but the most heinous of crimes. nor would I even have the slightest issue working with them, had this been the case. There are lots of far less important bots to remove and bot trains...and considering her server like any other has lived fine for 5+ years with all the issues, then 1 person isn't going to make any difference, their contributions are however.
You were in a party & somebody in party was using a bot program & you
didnt know it, & maybe you went afk for a few min on auto follow ?
And that just happend to be when the GM was checking that party ???
Kinda sad because if the above does happen & legits happen to get banned this way, it is just gonna make more people not want to party & only solo.
Firstly auto-follow is in the lineage 2 software. It is nothing 3rd party. Why the hell make it if it is illigal? you put it on auto-follow and get a cup of coffee, the software allows it...really stupid they say it is not allowed. Why don't they make it such that you dont keep on following if they don't want it...
Secondly, here on Luna clans used mass reporting as a weapon. They mass reported all tanks from one clan that was about to take their castle. They were all banned and the victim clan couldnt even defend themselves, in mass they decided to leave the the european server Luna. Congrats NCSoft, you let yourself be used...it is genius (of the other clan) and very evil, as these people paid sometimes for a year :mad:
imo they have to get their money back...and m8 maybe they did this to you 2, maybe some people didnt like you...
Secondly, here on Luna clans used mass reporting as a weapon. They mass reported all tanks from one clan that was about to take their castle. They were all banned and the victim clan couldnt even defend themselves, in mass they decided to leave the the european server Luna. Congrats NCSoft, you let yourself be used...it is genius (of the other clan) and very evil, as these people paid sometimes for a year :mad:
imo they have to get their money back...and m8 maybe they did this to you 2, maybe some people didnt like you...
C.mon please stop making these wild accusations.
If there are mass petitions at all, which I strongly doubt, people don't get banned for taking mass petitions, they get banned for breaking the rules e.g. botting, rtm, ect. And many, many took a swing of the hammer in Luna. Unfortunately these swings came to late for a lot of people and because of that people left the server/game. Thats the reason why population is low in Luna.
C.mon please stop making these wild accusations.
If there are mass petitions at all, which I strongly doubt, people don't get banned for taking mass petitions, they get banned for breaking the rules e.g. botting, rtm, ect. And many, many took a swing of the hammer in Luna. Unfortunately these swings came to late for a lot of people and because of that people left the server/game. Thats the reason why population is low in Luna.
ok well ask italianjob, o right they left the server... it is not a wild accusation, it happened to them...thats why they left m8 (and was not a small clan).. I give you this, there is no way of knowing if all their tanks were doing botting... sure... but it happened, thats a fact...
There are multitudes of reasons as to why people bot, buy adena, etc. I know, because of my none interference with these things, people are really open behind the scenes about what they truly do, so I know quite a lot both from n00b player perspective, but also from the true powerplayers perspective and everyone in between.
Also, there are also people outside of the L2 team that know, like the RMT sellers/bosses themselves and the bot site managers. It is sometimes amusing to pass on an IP to them and ask if that IP has downloaded <censored> or sold/bought Adena, most of the time there are some surprising replies.
And you know what, if someone i knew that ran a fansite made lots of EULA violations I wouldn't give a hoot, their contributions are far to meaningful and beneficial to the community for me to ban them for anything but the most heinous of crimes. nor would I even have the slightest issue working with them, had this been the case. There are lots of far less important bots to remove and bot trains...and considering her server like any other has lived fine for 5+ years with all the issues, then 1 person isn't going to make any difference, their contributions are however.
As i said to Spud and i will say to you...you are entitled to your own opinion.
One of the founding blocks of Adena Sellers is that they will not divulge who buys their product. If it ever came out that they divulge that info their business would be gone...puff. However I am sure that the Adena sellers talk to you on a constant basis and would give you the lowdown on any ISPs your heart desires...after all you are...who are you again? I guess i should take into consideration that this IS the internets where toasters fly as do pigs....so anything is possible.
The Adena Sellers that plague L2 are not mainly from China as many elude. They were forced out a long time ago. Most i suspect are from USA and Western Canada...just look at the ebay adds.
In closing.... your point is that a person could cheat, bot, sell Adena, whatever but as long as they provide a special service to the community they are cool with you.
My opinion is....that person agreed to a set of rules (the EULSs) because that person does not abide by them then they have no integrity...are liars and don't belong in this game.
ok well ask italianjob, o right they left the server.....
You should ask them indeed how they (atleast some of them) use to xp :)
If they are "clean" so to speak NC would not have banned them or atleast have unbanned them again after investigation. If they leave the game b/c of some got caught cheating, well good for them. I could care less tbh.
well they deny ofc... and NCSoft doesn't respond to their unban request as far as I know... so they request transfer to another server... tbh dont know what good that would do...
And you know what, if someone i knew that ran a fansite made lots of EULA violations I wouldn't give a hoot, their contributions are far to meaningful and beneficial to the community for me to ban them for anything but the most heinous of crimes.
Well, then imagine that a fansite leader runs an adena sales ring and uses their site to attract customers :rolleyes:
I can confirm about mass petitions between enemy clans,to weaken the enemy and take control of raid bosses/castles/heroes.
It's happening right now on Frantz-both sides have lost halph of their toons-.If nscoft bans accounts only cause they were mass petitioned thats a new HUGE problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If gms dont have ''search tools'' or can't ''patrol'' the servers that's a serious problem.I dont even want to think the possibility of a legit player been banned by mistake.It's like a innocent person gets in prison by mistake and the system doesnt allow him to prove he's innocent.Noone was going to do anything else but botting and cheating then.
I've payed transfer on 2 accounts to go to a server(Frantz)were i could find active clans,people to party,dorfs to craft shots in giran!(it may sounds silly,but you can't play if you cant find a dorf to craft your shots,you can see the server's population just by counting the shopcrafting dorfs,on Frantz there were 20 dorfs 2 months ago and now there 'r 5).I dont like at all to hear each week how many toons Frantz lost.It's like they bomb us,how many are going to stay alive?Why did i payed for transfering if this server is elliminated?
I believe nscoft's gms are doing right to ban people,but they choosed a very wrong time to do it.
They should have done it on each new server start,including with game updates that would provide all game mechanics for efficiant legit lvlup and enough adena at least for everyday players.
People botted cause they saw they cant make enough adena by killing mobs or making quests and understood people making a living by running bottrains.
"why to pay real money to the chinesse farmer and not bot my self?Why to keep trying when the enemy side is obsiously ebaying,me with my b grade weapon and my 65lvl buffer and they with their s grade gear and 78lvl cov?"You may say,they could just pve and not care of succeding,but game is based on peoples wish to succed more.
After 3 subs introduced in game and lvl raising on main class people started to bot cause they couldnt do all!!!Most of the ''antibotters'' people dont play in big clans so they dont know how it is to lvl your toon AND participate in clans activities.Like camping almost everyday for hours a raidboss,pvp for raids control,making quests to acess a raid,trying to hold the xp area with good drops,siege,all these require more than 4 hours of your ingame time EVERYDAY and you also loose xp pvping/duying on raids.When are you going to work for your 4 or more classes?(your main,your 2 subs and your buffer).Including play at oly?well..who has also time for that.........So botting for plvl became a habit.
You need to work for solutions, all this banning without changes on games mechanincs force people to quit or buy a new toon-ebay more-.
It's also affecting the legit toons that are in pvp clans and are expecting to be in a list with epics drops.Cause everytime a person who was very active in clan(pvping,camping raids,oly farmer ect)is banned and looses all items he got from clan,his new toon's name is placed again top on the list and this can happen many times.So the list for clan members to obtain an item would never go down to a legit person who is waiting and waiting...........
to atarth:
personally I see no need to do botting, don't need to be the knight in shinning armor without actually deserving it. It it is like playing chess without rules. Whats the fun in that? You are right I dont know the huge clans and how it is, but perhaps if you 'have to' do too much then you should join another clan. It is not like they pay your salary or something :) In real life you also don't say wouw I can't have a mercedes lets steal one :)
tbh I know at least one toon who was mass petitioned, he quickly did pvp and they (NCSoft) left him alone (he was not botting). I really dont know how good their tests are, but it feels like there may be a problem here...
One of the founding blocks of Adena Sellers is that they will not divulge who buys their product. If it ever came out that they divulge that info their business would be gone...puff. However I am sure that the Adena sellers talk to you on a constant basis and would give you the lowdown on any ISPs your heart desires...after all you are...who are you again?
Just because you have no clue, doesn't mean anything. And exactly because of that trust I don't tell anyone else of the findings, its purely for curious learning about what people do and how people truly are.
The Adena Sellers that plague L2 are not mainly from China as many elude. They were forced out a long time ago. Most i suspect are from USA and Western Canada...just look at the ebay adds.
You are correct in that the bulk of adena sellers/bosses are from the west.
In closing.... your point is that a person could cheat, bot, sell Adena, whatever but as long as they provide a special service to the community they are cool with you.
My opinion is....that person agreed to a set of rules (the EULSs) because that person does not abide by them then they have no integrity...are liars and don't belong in this game.
This is fine, but then you are far far more damaging to this game than botters and adena buyers. This game would long have collapsed without a community backbone.
Just because you have no clue, doesn't mean anything. And exactly because of that trust I don't tell anyone else of the findings, its purely for curious learning about what people do and how people truly are..
People don't put their earnings on the line for nothing and unless i am missing something here you have nothing of value to offer them...certainly not of enough value to jeopradize their meager existence. You run a game site...hello....anybody home??
This is fine, but then you are far far more damaging to this game than botters and adena buyers. This game would long have collapsed without a community backbone
Again if thats your opinion...by being honest not lieing and having integrity i damaged the game????....that is ridiculous. I guess i could say the same about you...i won't cause i really can't take you serious.
Are you saying that an honest community backbone that doesn't lie or cheat can't exist.
Or are you saying that you would prefer to have a bunch of liers, cheaters (that have ruined the game) create and run a community backbone than not to have one.
What's wrong with an honest community backbone run by people with integrity. You are delusional if you think that all people that form a community backbone cheat....or have to sell Adena.
Again if thats your opinion...by being honest not lieing and having integrity i damaged the game????....that is ridiculous.
Nothing is wrong with not lying and having integrity. It is however damaging to take out the core of the game community.
Are you saying that an honest community backbone that doesn't lie or cheat can't exist.
I am saying that it was an example. I didn't comment one way or the other whether community backbone don't cheat or do.
What's wrong with an honest community backbone run by people with integrity. You are delusional if you think that all people that form a community backbone cheat....or have to sell Adena.
I am saying I'd rather have a backbone like that, than have no backbone to the game at all. Whether a dozen people in this game cheated, would not make any difference in the overall massive mass of cheaters, that dozens community contributions however makes a huge difference compared to that.
Wouldn't really have bothered me in the least. Its not like getting adena would be harder to get regardless of whether she did or not.
So, all the adena seller needs to escape the ban is to run a L2 fansite?
So, all the adena seller needs to escape the ban is to run a L2 fansite?
Krissa....what don't you understand...according to him...people that provide a community "anything of value" be that a fansite, or comic strip or whatever are above the EULA's. The fact that they agree to them is a mere technicality for only mortals to obey.
Krissa....what don't you understand...according to him...people that provide a community "anything of value" be that a fansite, or comic strip or whatever are above the EULA's. The fact that they agree to them is a mere technicality for only mortals to obey.
I understand Chaos' arguments the same way DrTulp has outlined them here.
I think it is a deplorable attitude and certainly reflects poorly on him (and by association everything he is associated with).
A person breaking the rules who coincidentally does something "good" is still, at the end of the day, a person breaking the rules.
Coupled with this fact, talent does not reside in single locations. In relatively broad undertakings, talent always rises to fill a void.
If "xxDeathxx" is just the greatest top Clan operator to ever play the game and he is banned, it's only a matter of time before someone else rises to that exhalted throne. But someone will.
Does a comic strip improve the game? Does it complete the game, somehow? Is that the pinnacle of demonstrated talent without which the game will fold? No.
It's just a comic. In the end it means nothing.
Is the most noteworthy person who creates guides irreplaceable? No. I've seen many many guides created by many players--including players who weren't known/acknowledged--that were excellent. They are all over the place. Our clan site has a few made by clanmembers as good as anything I have ever seen on the bigger sites, with some of the screenies collected by newbs who barely understood what they were collecting.
Doing wrong is wrong. Breaking rules is wrong. CONDONING the breaking of rules is wrong. Pretending to look the other way when rules are broken is wrong.
That some engaged in these activities might have some value they add to a few others? Well, most can see the problem with forgiving concious rule violation because of some minor positive accomplishment.
Sorry, but from my point of view there IS no justification for those who break the rules. None. It doesn't matter if they have redeeming virtue 'x' or 'y'.
They know the consequences for violating the rules and reaffirm those rules at every log in. Whether they are thought by some to be some sort of pillar of the community means nothing once that player goes out of bounds.
Arguing differently is elitist. In general, elitism just ****** me off.
This is saying "regular players? ban them for rule violations. These couple of "valuable" players? They too important to be banned/lost so their violations should be excused".
to atarth:
personally I see no need to do botting, don't need to be the knight in shinning armor without actually deserving it. It it is like playing chess without rules. Whats the fun in that? You are right I dont know the huge clans and how it is, but perhaps if you 'have to' do too much then you should join another clan. It is not like they pay your salary or something :) In real life you also don't say wouw I can't have a mercedes lets steal one :)
tbh I know at least one toon who was mass petitioned, he quickly did pvp and they (NCSoft) left him alone (he was not botting). I really dont know how good their tests are, but it feels like there may be a problem here...
I am 83lvl+3subs+80lvlmy box buffer and ive never botted.Most of my l2 time im in a pvp clan.I had a friend's who retired from game wh items+crys+250m adena when i started,those kept me untill a grade,after that i had to struggle hard to make anything above.Also i had lots of free time to spend ,which the ordinary person has not.
They cant simply ban all players now,cause the community of L2 has been created,the ones that were sicked watching their legit efforts varnished in front of the bottrainers and big ebayers they've left.And i wrote something propably noone noticed,that each time a strong clan's member is banned,he bots or buys another toon and he gets more clan's items,so the rest of the few legit players on clan will have to wait more and more for any help.
They cause stress to people,so many are afraid to party with random strangers or even clannies cause of ''random check and party ban if someone is using a program''.They should be strict on controls all these years not at the end of game.
And far more important,if game had good events for xp(like the one with vitality we have now) and for adena(i cant recall such an event)and good quests that CAN be done by normal players(like the varka/ketra q for s graders,legit people could finish it and make good money/hb q for s80ders was such a failure )people could play the whole game-grind part-craft part-pvp part-farm part-market part- and relax in game.
Thats why i wrote how many things a person who belongs to a top pvp clan has to do everyday.I wont accept as an answer''dont go to pvp clan,dont farm raids,dont go sieges,dont take castles,stay on pve and lvl'',who is going to do all that?the chinesse farmers???
Here is the big unbalance on L2,time you need for lvl,for craft,for alts,for camp..with x1 rate those things simply cant be done.Korean game all these years had plenty of good events that boosted players.Our first good event was on February 2010.
I understand Chaos' arguments the same way DrTulp has outlined them here.
Well, fine if you want to go in the fairly wrong direction.
I think it is a deplorable attitude and certainly reflects poorly on him (and by association everything he is associated with).
I don't know, I care deeply about this game. What do you do for this game btw to make you so much better, other than having an attitude. (which we have no idea of whether you or your clan are truly legit)
Coupled with this fact, talent does not reside in single locations. In relatively broad undertakings, talent always rises to fill a void.
Oh really? Where's the talent to fill the void of talent lost...or heck consequently the players lost.
If "xxDeathxx" is just the greatest top Clan operator to ever play the game and he is banned, it's only a matter of time before someone else rises to that exhalted throne. But someone will.
You're talking about in game power vacuum, a completely different topic.
Does a comic strip improve the game? Does it complete the game, somehow? Is that the pinnacle of demonstrated talent without which the game will fold? No.
It's just a comic. In the end it means nothing.
Actually it means a huge amount of things...companies like Blizzard recognizes this. Its great advertisement. On Stratics we had literally THOUSANDS of non-lineage 2 players who took interest in Lineage 2 through the great comic strips, many of them joined up. Just on Stratics alone we helped hundreds of people get set up for accounts coming from that angle.
So how many people does 1 bot make quit? I would venture to guess 0 people. On the other hand 1 comic strip drew hundreds, if not thousands of new players to the game. (Coinciding nicely with the large increases in subscribers L2 was enjoying a long period there and after)
Oh and after the ban, we had over a dozen questions from players who wanted to know how to cancel there accounts because of this.
And again, there's really no evidence whatsoever that Stabby cheated in any form. He was pretty low level for someone who played since beginning, he just got his first A grade set. (despite getting donations from players), he had people who would always by his stuff, so he didn't need even a sell bot...so what exactly could he have cheated with.
Is the most noteworthy person who creates guides irreplaceable? No. I've seen many many guides created by many players--including players who weren't known/acknowledged--that were excellent. They are all over the place. Our clan site has a few made by clanmembers as good as anything I have ever seen on the bigger sites, with some of the screenies collected by newbs who barely understood what they were collecting.
What does a guide on a clansite read by a few dozens help in a game of tens of thousands? Where can you direct new players to find much needed info?
Yeah, they're pretty irreplaceable, had a few people not been there in the beginning, there would have been nothing, no stratics, no vault, no ressources used by hundreds of thousands of players and helped a lot of private server people transition to retail server.
"You cant ban me. I'm special. I'm above the law!"
Uhm, it would be a little hard for me to cheat, when NCSoft specifically have my IP, computer info and account names all linked to me as a person, as I have given it to them freely.
Btw, I am not saying people should just cheat, thats bad. I am talking about hypothetical situations here and saying that I believe that blind bans are bad for the game.
Well, fine if you want to go in the fairly wrong direction.
I don't know, I care deeply about this game. What do you do for this game btw to make you so much better, other than having an attitude. (which we have no idea of whether you or your clan are truly legit)
Oh really? Where's the talent to fill the void of talent lost...or heck consequently the players lost.
You're talking about in game power vacuum, a completely different topic.
Actually it means a huge amount of things...companies like Blizzard recognizes this. Its great advertisement. On Stratics we had literally THOUSANDS of non-lineage 2 players who took interest in Lineage 2 through the great comic strips, many of them joined up. Just on Stratics alone we helped hundreds of people get set up for accounts coming from that angle.
So how many people does 1 bot make quit? I would venture to guess 0 people. On the other hand 1 comic strip drew hundreds, if not thousands of new players to the game. (Coinciding nicely with the large increases in subscribers L2 was enjoying a long period there and after)
Oh and after the ban, we had over a dozen questions from players who wanted to know how to cancel there accounts because of this.
And again, there's really no evidence whatsoever that Stabby cheated in any form. He was pretty low level for someone who played since beginning, he just got his first A grade set. (despite getting donations from players), he had people who would always by his stuff, so he didn't need even a sell bot...so what exactly could he have cheated with.
What does a guide on a clansite read by a few dozens help in a game of tens of thousands? Where can you direct new players to find much needed info?
Yeah, they're pretty irreplaceable, had a few people not been there in the beginning, there would have been nothing, no stratics, no vault, no ressources used by hundreds of thousands of players and helped a lot of private server people transition to retail server.
The world you live in...where fantasy site owners/managers whatever are above the rules...where the position is so high that the air is very thin...it starves the brain of oxygen...or so i'm led to believe.
Oh and when you talk fan sites you forgot about Blah...i would imagine that's your favourite...lots of elitest hang out there...guess they are all fansite managers huh...bet you all group hug :P
The world you live in...where fantasy site owners/managers whatever are above the rules...where the position is so high that the air is very thin...it starves the brain of oxygen...or so i'm led to believe.
Oh and when you talk fan sites you forgot about Blah...i would imagine that's your favourite...lots of elitest hang out there...guess they are all fansite managers huh...bet you all group hug :P
I never said I was above the rules, and as stated earlier, considering I couldn't hide at all, I would have a hard time breaking the rules in any event.
Again, sadly you're blind to reality...but I guess one can't win them all.
I didn't mention specific fansites. I don't really use blah or any other site that much...I am way too much of a n00b carebear player to ever fit into blah. Though I can throw insults like the best of them.
i tend to agree with LC. your community hosts like elliebellie are really all that is offered in the way of guides and general information. i suspect the minute Rohirrim is banned you will find L2.rochand dissapeared.
fan sites need fans to support the sites with material, and given that material in L2 changes every 6 months, you get a lot of out-of-date sites very quickly if you ban enough people, be they legit or not.
it hurts the community as a whole when you ban ANYONE irrespective as to who they are and what they do. its like a family member dying or moving to Australia. you only have so many family members and if they all are dead you need to get a new family. same with L2; they can ban all they like now, its only killing the game slowly by removing the fans of the game. if i was banned i'd not return. ive left for less.
not that i matter one iota, i'm just saying i'm one less paying customer once banned. be i a bot or not. that doesnt matter.
eogamer is a great site, as is elliebelly but once those managers no longer are fans of the game, they will not be fan sites. they will be voids in the region of the interweb formerly known as eogamer.... etc.
can Lineage2 stand to see such support and fan sites fall? not if the official webring continues to be out-of-date. once that happens there will be MORE whining posts about false info and LESS whining about bots.
its like treating a symptom without finding a cure... you can ban everyone in the game, shut the game down completely and what will happen ? whoever still likes the game, will pick up private servers. those left with general disgust will divert to non-NC games.
one thing is for certain, if NC's policies do not change before Lineage3, it too will flop just as Lineage2 and AION and TR, and the denizens of games NC has released and forfeited.
you do realize of course that NC has no successful North American / Western track record? lets name all the NC games put out since it opened as a video game company in the West... now lets summarize and condense the list into those games which are successful Western games, and havent closed down...
youre left with 1 game out of 8. two if you think Lineage2 will continue to be open for years to come. three if you think Aion has a thriving p(l)ayerbase.
please, someone show me an NC-run site that is up to date, not in Korean, and services any of those other 5 flop games (Exteel, AutoAssault, COH/COV, TabulaRasa)
if you look closely, Tulp, you'll find the admins of blah are no longer players of official servers and/or L2. the mods are, the admins are not. Orphus closed (due to banning).
fan sites come and go with fans. we've seen many such sites go byebye (think warcry and wh) because of bad blood.
bottom line is fan communities are really hurt when hosts are banned or quit; thos both proves they are not above the rules, but by no means concludes that they are right to have banned these folk in the first place.
what will happen when/if Jkoster is banned? will Roleplay communities cease to have a representative? yeah, i'd think so. he wouldnt come back, i know. but none would pick up the mantle he leaves behind thats for dang sure.
Sorry Spud, love ya like a brother man but we see this differently.
LordChaos is saying with no ambiguity that "some players are valuable enough that if they cheat it's okay".
He's saying very clearly, "REGULAR players have to follow all the rules but not a special few".
It's no more complicated than that.
And he is wrong.
This is the same elitist attitude that pervades our politics in America (and many other places) where "it's okay for the masses to wait for quality healthcare, but the vital geniuses in Congress must have a different (better) healthcare plan--cause they are more valuable than common people".
Same EXACT argument.
Incidently, I noticed one of your Canadian premier guys was just in America--for heart surgery! In the statement surrounding this story it was clear that he didn't want to wait for the Canadian health system--cause he might die.....
LordChaos is saying that if (in his opinion) "valuable" people cheat, it's not the same as when "the little people" cheat...."
This is wrong for 2 reasons. First, there IS no relative value in the things he is holding up as valuable. And second, a person contributing to some two-bit fansite is no more valuable than the regular smuck that just logs in and pays his subscription every month. The two have the exact SAME value--$15.00 and a member of the playing community.
He's an elitist who clearly believes he is better than everyone else and this conversation has gone on more than long enough for me.
Personally? I want those supposedly "adding value" to hit a HIGHER standard--not to lead the charge as cheaters.
Then again, I don't believe any one person is better or 'worth more' than another person.
While the topic of this post is an endlessly debated one, this thread is derailing into personal differences of opinion. There is nothing being said here that hasn't been said elsewhere.