Hello.
As you can see, there was zero result we had after NC Korea petition made (but I doubt it was sent). http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=213777
All we have atm. is just several questions to Mr. Han Jae Hyuk, and several common answers about "boxes" and no plans to introduce new classes, such as Bards... was.
After GoD life released at Lineage II servers @ Korea, there was many videos of game-play and pvp for Enchanter point of view.
And what we can see? Bards, Overlords, Warcryers basic pvp based functions were successfully deleted from the game:
- Aggression to control party members damage taken, deleted.
- Fear, Sleep, Arrest aka control enemy party members availability, deleted. Immobilize functions nerfed from 3 seconds ready to once per 2 minutes use...
- Rebuff and re-dance/re-song aka control party efficiency, removed as critical function. De facto, there is no more cancelling, buff stealing, all its reuse rates nerfed to unusable and unnecessary (once per 2 minutes use, chance to land).
- Debuff aka control enemy party members abnormal states, partially survived, but nerfed *HARD* effectiveness, reuse rate, action time etc.
What for we need such useless character, its only function to running around at battlefield now? I don't count making several buffs once per 5/20 min as character "function", its ridiculous... Or chasing enemies to hit them with pathetic powers, making few 3 seconds duration low effectiveness melee range "debuffs" - is this our new pvp role supposed to be? You can see it in any korean enchanter PoV video, just watch it carefully.
This new buff pet concept is just wrong by it self...
NC soft should review enchanter class and its role. We should *push* them to do it!
in short: the majority of koreans that plays enchanter class are female and as such anything offensive orientated or not cute/fluffy is a no no.. this is sadly enough not a joke. in their eyes the class is not meant for effective pvp, that's for the "manly" classes like tyr warrior etc. lol.
I gave up on it, will reroll or quit.. it's that simple and to many new games coming out to be bothered by this anymore..
Most of the Koreans do not care about what happens outside Asia so stop hoping on a miracle from that side, go talk with Inova cause they CAN make such changes and if so I predict an huge influx of "new" players for them.
in short: the majority of koreans that plays enchanter class are female and as such anything offensive orientated or not cute/fluffy is a no no.. this is sadly enough not a joke. in their eyes the class is not meant for effective pvp, that's for the "manly" classes like tyr warrior etc. lol.
I gave up on it, will reroll or quit.. it's that simple and to many new games coming out to be bothered by this anymore..
Most of the Koreans do not care about what happens outside Asia so stop hoping on a miracle from that side, go talk with Inova cause they CAN make such changes and if so I predict an huge influx of "new" players for them.
Go ahead if you enjoy playing a game all in russian.
- Aggression to control party members damage taken, deleted.
- Debuff aka control enemy party members abnormal states, partially survived, but nerfed *HARD* effectiveness, reuse rate, action time etc.
Eh, if a BD need to make all those skills during pvp pve - thats a very bad party, better find more skillful one :)
aggression to control enemy targets is partly the roll of a bd/sws.
mainly for helping the healer. i don't know if it's done anymore, but this used to be common practice.
as for arrest, that's also an emergency party protection skill, i've used it before on sub when a a bad spawn occurs and everyone is too focused on something else to help defend the poor bd/sws in the corner.
but a lot of those are also about the OL, aoe Root was major crowd controll, sleep, fear, and other such as well.
after reading this, i'm afraid i will have to reroll.
although i'm still pretty sure i will not play L2 much longer.
i will wait til the pts at least, see how much i might like playing another class, but after watching videos where people spam the same 2 skills over and over, it feels like we're going back to D grade skills.
which makes me wonder if they will expand beyond, eventually coming back to S grade skill variety.
It is true that the class has not been tested, yet there are some valid concerns about the class (merging of completely different classes, overcrowding of enchanters, quality/strength of PvP skills, gear discrepancy, etc). Maybe it works out well, but most players don't trust NC (with a good reason I may add).
Here are some points that might be a source of concern for people that want to become enchanter:
-Buff animation with fairies dancing around. I am sure hardcore pvper's will love them. Seriously, what was wrong with the old animations?
-Enchanter's debuffs seem weaker and shorter in duration compared to other classes'.
-Out of 8 classes, 7 have a way to cleanse debuffs. Only one doesn’t have such a skill. Guess which one.
-Protection buffs (mental, elemental, divine) don’t have OE options for power (only cost/time). On the other hand, the debuffs many classes have get OE options for power, chance, etc. This means that as levels go up, protection buffs usefulness will be diminished. It seems that NC loves to repeat same mistakes.
-Final oblivion: Cancels target around the caster with a reuse delay of 2 mins and that’s it. Instant effect, no duration. Kamael’s oblivion skill is a good example of how this skill should work.
My opinion is all buffs should be transferred as self skills for all classes. Healers have them, so why not?
Enchanter skills should be changed respectively, same self buffs as for all other classes and new skills - combat songs and combat stances, a la classic D'n'D Bards have. Those songs and stances should be activated to work, like auras, and Bards will have to choose which one and only fits better depending on combat situation. (De)Buffing or Controlling/Disabling? Damage or Protection? etc and so on.
Also Enchanters might be dual weapons experts like now, or Bows/Daggers (rogue like style)
IMHO such tactical things can provide much more fun in gameplay for Enchanters...
NC do listen community, I know it. They changed some Tyr Warrior skills because of community complaining and I'm sure it is possible to do the same for Enchanters.
Eagle I talked with Koreans on that and even with NC Taiwan reps but as said before the class is primarily played by females there and those do not care for the changes we're asking for and as such it's not going to happen..
yes they can make changes sure but atm unlike the huge amount of Tyr Warrior players that complained none of the Enchanters are complaining at all there.. the dev's even nerved Enchanters a little bit by changing how the new shadow dance works (it made xping to easy) and nobody (none of the enchanters that is) complained about that.
the big issue here is cultural, in Asia they still treat female players different then how we do.. as a matter of fact they're kind of shocked at how we play the class so good luck trying to convince them they should play the way we do..
to add to the above post I even petitioned through several channels to have more different weapon mastery for Enchanter as right now it's limited to only dual sword/blunts even though we can use lot's of other weapons as well.. the answer I got was not likely to happen period.
this was a simple and easy to do request, nothing fancy or making the class to strong etc., and they won't even consider it so that alone should tell you were we stand.
Eagle I talked with Koreans on that and even with NC Taiwan reps but as said before the class is primarily played by females there and those do not care for the changes we're asking for and as such it's not going to happen..
yes they can make changes sure but atm unlike the huge amount of Tyr Warrior players that complained none of the Enchanters are complaining at all there.. the dev's even nerved Enchanters a little bit by changing how the new shadow dance works (it made xping to easy) and nobody (none of the enchanters that is) complained about that.
the big issue here is cultural, in Asia they still treat female players different then how we do.. as a matter of fact they're kind of shocked at how we play the class so good luck trying to convince them they should play the way we do..
No offense, but from what I've read about the new shadow dance, its function was broken up until a few days ago. Shouldn't be considered a nerf. It's more of a correction.
Eagle I talked with Koreans on that and even with NC Taiwan reps but as said before the class is primarily played by females there and those do not care for the changes we're asking for and as such it's not going to happen..
You mean that BD, SwS, WC, Domi, and PP are played by female players?
There's 50% of female players in Korea or what?
@Smittie, I agree but if that change had happened here ppl would have cried out about it as it really does impact the xp speed.. look at all the lol 2x xp events here.. xp is serious biz..
@Washtak, not many DC/OL players in Korea but the rest yes.. 99.99% of all PP for example are females.. and there are a lot of those there.
as said before I've tried to explain how we see the role of bards (bd/sws) in pvp and they just don't play that way so not much we can do there as unless it make sense to them they will not make any chance just to satisfy us.. which is also why I tried the NC Taiwan route as those are very close to NC Korea but samething there.. no real understanding of how we play and as such hard to motivate to act on our behalves..
What's their typical party setup? Here we wouldn't get out PvPing without the usal BD+SwS+WC/OL+EE/SE+BP and that's 5/9 party members, leaving room for only 4 DD. On those 5 supports, 3 becomes enchanters and 2 becomes healers. It's very strange that they didn't seperate bards from enchanters, and it can only come from they way they play.
no idea on the bards.. typically they rather take 2 pp's then dc/ol.. the orc enchanters are really not popular there
can't explain why they merged bards the way they did except cause it's regarded as a support class played mostly by females and the rest has the same classification so voila..
you can not compare Korean PvP to how we PvP, it's not the same.. it's one of the reason most end game parties here look down on their Korean counter parts but a lot of cultural differences is in between so that's a lost battle anywayz..
for example Koreans see cheating = loss of face and here it's just part of the win at all cost mentality
ps, their definition on cheating is slightly different then ours as ebaying even thou frowned upon does happen whereas here it's equal to perma ban when caught..
Man I'm really not liking this 'girls play enchanters' talk. I picked dancer in prelude 7 years ago and its very fun to play and I love being a non-boxed buffer that people want to bring. I don't care for pvp one bit, so my mentality is purely from a raiding standpoint. But even I agree that from pp to OL to bd the differences are just far too vast when compared to the other classes that are merging. A 'bard' idea would have been better, but at this point it seems like it's too late for any major changes.
Eh, if a BD need to make all those skills during pvp pve - thats a very bad party, better find more skillful one :)
GoD 4rd class healers cannot spam trance anymore :(
But yes, if all what you see in PvE is CG, crowd control is unneeded.
LOL I change you to pig rawr... I was actually kinda looking forward to changing ppl to pigs
as for this news on enchanters, it's sad; but for you Draecke you never played your sws as support, always as tank/dd lol, anyway what class do you think you might reroll to?
I'm still super emo about losing my DB so totally not decided on what class to play as main; archer is a possibility (I could use my light armor at least), and nuker not a bad idea either (maybe dual class that instead if enchanter not needed/sux or still doesn't work) but I'll already have nuker & dagger anyway; if enchanter sux I won't even bother to dual class it then perhaps. probably going to put off evolving to anything anyway till i'm darn sure what I want :/
I dont' think there will be a too many of enchanters if it sucks to play... and for sure Asian play style is far different from ours; they are very much more carebear and pve hugz time oriented; western players are much more focused on the most efficient and effective ways to plow both mobs and players as fast as possible, and care much less about holding hands + singing songs in random pick up parties that kill slowly.
It is also true that NC korea does not give two rats behinds about what we think here. so very likely we will be at a loss to have any improvement.
anyway I'm totally not buying duals for this class if I ever end up playing it, it's going to get w/e I have. and if it sucks that bad and isn't needed I may not have one at all. ironically it appears that enchanter class is going the way of the current pp class (in non-asian servers) lol sad day
@Smittie, I agree but if that change had happened here ppl would have cried out about it as it really does impact the xp speed.. look at all the lol 2x xp events here.. xp is serious biz..
as said before I've tried to explain how we see the role of bards (bd/sws) in pvp and they just don't play that way so not much we can do there as unless it make sense to them they will not make any chance just to satisfy us.. which is also why I tried the NC Taiwan route as those are very close to NC Korea but samething there.. no real understanding of how we play and as such hard to motivate to act on our behalves..
So you are saying we should let skills be broken as long as its good for pve?
nope, the cleaner the game the better but koreans are still patching GoD every week so let's not delay the game any further but do same as them and go with what we have and patch later.. this has been taking to long as it is already..
btw Smittie be honest once the 2x xp junkies here realize that the koreans had 2 months to "exploit" that skill to xp like crazy they will demand to be able to exploit as well for 2 months cause it's "only" xp..
for me it matters not either way as it's not like it will slow me down if I decide to keep playing :)
I tested the enchanter on RU PTS and I liked it; from a PP/DC point of view it's a great improvement imo; their main jobs is till buffing (they got even more buff than before since they also have dances/songs), but they also got a lot of CC (maybe not as strong as other classes I dont know but they got many: root, polymorph, petrify, AOE root, etc), a few attack (and debuff) skills (single and aoe), a heal (stronger than the PP one, 1/3 of his buffed HP at 85), a CP heal (a bit weak), some defensive ability (a party invul, 2 self polymorph), some AOE debuff, ...
I didnt tested a lot but it remind me of the Everquest bard's, "jack of all trade, master of none".
yeah, i've done a lot of reading into the class.
i've seen the skill list, which is much longer than the teaser on the GoD preview site.
the debuffs are unfortunately not as good as current debuffs, and the biggest fault is low duration, like 15 seconds at most.
but they have some good pve combatant abilities, and rush.
they finally gave us Rush.
my concern is, are enchanters considered mage classes?
because PP, OL, and WC are all mages, but BD, Sws, JD are all Fighters...
so i'm curious what the Enchanter's Stats will reflect.
i guess being a fighter with a nuke is still fun.
I used nuke augments on my TK sub to pull extra mobs. Worked ok, especially in FoG pulls.
also, unless they change the ratio of stats, my casting speed won't change.
They do change the ratio of stats. The new stats should be divided by 2 to compare them with the old ones.
Hello.
As you can see, there was zero result we had after NC Korea petition made (but I doubt it was sent). http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=213777
All we have atm. is just several questions to Mr. Han Jae Hyuk, and several common answers about "boxes" and no plans to introduce new classes, such as Bards... was.
After GoD life released at Lineage II servers @ Korea, there was many videos of game-play and pvp for Enchanter point of view.
And what we can see? Bards, Overlords, Warcryers basic pvp based functions were successfully deleted from the game:
- Aggression to control party members damage taken, deleted.
- Fear, Sleep, Arrest aka control enemy party members availability, deleted. Immobilize functions nerfed from 3 seconds ready to once per 2 minutes use...
- Rebuff and re-dance/re-song aka control party efficiency, removed as critical function. De facto, there is no more cancelling, buff stealing, all its reuse rates nerfed to unusable and unnecessary (once per 2 minutes use, chance to land).
- Debuff aka control enemy party members abnormal states, partially survived, but nerfed *HARD* effectiveness, reuse rate, action time etc.
What for we need such useless character, its only function to running around at battlefield now? I don't count making several buffs once per 5/20 min as character "function", its ridiculous... Or chasing enemies to hit them with pathetic powers, making few 3 seconds duration low effectiveness melee range "debuffs" - is this our new pvp role supposed to be? You can see it in any korean enchanter PoV video, just watch it carefully.
This new buff pet concept is just wrong by it self...
NC soft should review enchanter class ands role. We should *push* them to do it!
idk if you have actually played an enchante yet... but they are easily the most versitile class in GOD.. they are literally the full package in 1 toon and have the ability to do it all.. it is absolutely an amazing support toon as well as other things... unless u have played it u dont really know.. go download russian pts and make one and see how it is.. its an awesome class..
furthermore, nukers are just absolute monsters in GOD.. if nukers get all the skills in the NA servers as they do in the russian servers.. holy **** watch out.. they are just rediculous..
I haven't tested an enchanter yet, so I expect from people that did test it some hard facts, instead of simply singing praises to the class.
For example: I used x AoE against 5 players. It landed on y of them and effect lasted z seconds. The effect was like (...). Just saying how awsome enchanter is means close to nothing.
Hello.
As you can see, there was zero result we had after NC Korea petition made (but I doubt it was sent). http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=213777
All we have atm. is just several questions to Mr. Han Jae Hyuk, and several common answers about "boxes" and no plans to introduce new classes, such as Bards... was.
After GoD life released at Lineage II servers @ Korea, there was many videos of game-play and pvp for Enchanter point of view.
And what we can see? Bards, Overlords, Warcryers basic pvp based functions were successfully deleted from the game:
- Aggression to control party members damage taken, deleted.
- Fear, Sleep, Arrest aka control enemy party members availability, deleted. Immobilize functions nerfed from 3 seconds ready to once per 2 minutes use...
- Rebuff and re-dance/re-song aka control party efficiency, removed as critical function. De facto, there is no more cancelling, buff stealing, all its reuse rates nerfed to unusable and unnecessary (once per 2 minutes use, chance to land).
- Debuff aka control enemy party members abnormal states, partially survived, but nerfed *HARD* effectiveness, reuse rate, action time etc.
What for we need such useless character, its only function to running around at battlefield now? I don't count making several buffs once per 5/20 min as character "function", its ridiculous... Or chasing enemies to hit them with pathetic powers, making few 3 seconds duration low effectiveness melee range "debuffs" - is this our new pvp role supposed to be? You can see it in any korean enchanter PoV video, just watch it carefully.
This new buff pet concept is just wrong by it self...
NC soft should review enchanter class and its role. We should *push* them to do it!
agression : u might see it that way but me personally enjoy that thats not getting onto the enchanter , cuz full programmed party , 3 hates every 3-5 seconds , enjoy trying to kill a healer when ur automatically getting hated by bd/sws/tank, in GoD Tank takes big position in defending his party
back on topic
fear sleep and arrest , you can transform ppl into pigs and fear too no ?
rebuff , duno what u ment with that , canceling will still be happening as mages have cancel.
debuffs , true domis take a big hit with that one , but theres 3 skills domi like on enchanter no ? korean pvps differently just as being said a thousend times , wait and see what this class can do ,
back in the day ppl said korean bds uses robes to cast hex and power break faster , while our ppl used Hvy.
Im actually looking forward to test the enchanter-class in GoD. I know, my class will be completly diffrent but im used to the idea now. And i didnt wanna peek on russian PTS, i wait for our version of PTS.