Sept 2011 update http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?p=3088048#post3088048
We should to do something to show NC korea they are mistaken about Enchanters class pvp role.
This class should be reviewed, may be remade from the scratch, I don't know, but all it is now - just buff pet.
May 2011 update
Small update.
Mr. Han Jae Hyuk answered some of my questions, tnx to Moxie. But it is looks like our petition stays totally unseen.
Namiko: Did you consider that be reducing all classes to 8 that there are currently 3-4 different enchanters in a party, where should the other 2-3 go?
Han Jae Hyuk: The new Iss Enchanters will get most of the buffer abilities that would have been in the additional two or three that were in a group before. The players can select freely from the eight classes after the fourth transfer to build a strong group.
Desert_Eagle: Are there any concerns from Korea or other territories regarding the number of Enchanters that will exist after GD? Any plans to address this if necessary?
HJH: We are aware that at first blush it looks like there will be a lot of Iss Enchanters in the character base when you match them with the current classes. However, we believe that many of those characters will not be played after Goddess of Destruction is released because many of those characters are used on secondary accounts as buffers. We believe that these buffers will not be necessary in a party and will no longer be played. Additionally, characters will have the opportunity to change class before the Awakening so that they can pass through their fourth transfer to the class of their choice. We'll share more information about this as we get closer to launch.
Desert_Eagle: Is it possible to bring a new character class into game - Bards, while increasing 7 players party size up to 8 players? Don't you think merging 6 classes into 1 will harm role playing part of game? Bard class can solve potential problems with Enchanter class become 350% more overpopulated.
HJH: We are balancing the eight classes we've announced. We have no plans to add more classes at this time.
So, as I can see, Mr. Han Jae Hyuk recommend us to 'reroll for free' using quest item. Also he think most of future Isa Enchanters from graphs I've build here - just boxed chars. Very interesting point of view as for development team leader of role playing game I'm afraid I can't agree.
There are some questions (only questions actually...) left.
- If we are suggested to reroll, who and how will compensate new weapons, new armors, another epics?
- If we aren't reroll and keep playing Ica Enchanters ... who and how will compensate new weapons, new armors, another epics? All skills will work only with dual blunts or duals. There are SO many of them - buffs, de-buffs, damage, control - heavy sets we have now will be low on mp, for sure!
Bards were fighter classes, Orcs were mage classes, so
- HOW you can combine them into one?? Will it be either fighter or mage?
- What nature of buffs will be - physical or magical? What will influence cast speed? Phys stats or Mag stats?
- What nature of de-buffs will be - physical or magical? What will influence cast speed and LAND RATE, and RESIST RATE? Phys stats or Mag stats? Both combined? Which way?
- How about *low* m.atck of dual weapons? *Low* mp for heavy sets?
- How about epic jewellery to use? We need change it also??
Questions, only questions and no answers...
I have an answer to myself anyway. I will not play Isa Enchanter. As support class I used to play - heavy armor, one handed weapon+shield, aggression skill, minimum epic jewellery build - I will be forced by NCsoft to reroll to tank, or leave this game mb. So, RIP bards :<
__________________________________________________ ______________
Few days ago there was an interview with NCsoft Korea development team leader, Jae Hyuk Han published at Inven portal http://www.inven.co.kr/ (I'm sorry I can't find correct English spelling for names of over Lineage 2 team members who was also present at interview)
Before public test of Goddess of Destruction update in Korea, at March 2011, they plan to make a conference with Lineage 2 players to listen their propositions and complains.
I want to ask our community to form a petition text here, and send it directly to Jae Hyuk Han (I hope NCsoft West will help us to send it).
There are too much changes in GoD update I'm not sure it can be reviewed in one petition and being observed at conference, but I think we should try to ask about most drastically changes:
1)Awakening system 35 classes -> 8 only.
Overlords, Swordsingers, Bladedancers, Warcryers, Prophets - classes including extremely rare (OL), and hard to raise lvl (Ol, SWS, Prophet), robe users and heavy armour tank-based classes with aggression skills - all of them joined ONE CLASS 'enchanter' not unique at all...
2)Party size reducing from 9 and 7, NA/EU game play style influence. Class distribution problems (60% of support classes will loose constant parties and will be forced to change class / reroll, lack of Tank classes etc)
3) Add some more here
please don't flood this topic...
Sace, take it please to moderation and help our community to aid our questions to their aim. Thank you.
good topic to show us there is some care from NC Korea for our community also. Don't miss the chance ppls, make this petition topic more constructive, we need to show our Western players' style, likes, dislikes and concerns
_____________________________________
/update
Lineage 2 player from russian server *Cadmus* (oldest one) did calculate profession statistics combined by GoD awakening system.
I did some calculations also, based on server Cadmus class count statistics.
1st, I put party needed proportions for each class:
Standard GoD 7 ppl party build: Tank, Healer, Enchanter, Summoner, 3 dd (2 archers/2 daggers/2 warriors - any combination 1/2/3).
Tank - 1/7
Warrior - 2/7
Dagger - 2/7
Mage - 3/7 (3 mages and 1 summoner for mage party)
Archer - 2/7
Summoner - 1/7 I hope summoner will be needed :) Can't put 0/7.... well you know ... :)
Enchanter - 1/7
Healer - 1/7
And for 8 ppl party with new class Bards (sws, bd, ol):
Tank - 1/8
Warrior - 2/8
Dagger - 2/8
Mage - 3/8
Archer - 2/8
Summoner - 1/8
Enchanter (wc,pp,Ins) - 1/8
Bard (sws, bd, ol) - 1/8
Healer - 1/8
2nd, I calculated
- How many all classes count should be (versus real count) to fit proportions above
- How real count fits well (in %) to needed counts.
100% - fits good,
<100% - fits bad.
>100% - too much players in one class, all of them will have to 'reroll' or use event for any other class awakening (same as reroll actually...). All other needed quantity are potential % of players of that class, who will have to REROLL forcibly, or play solo, or leave game
As you can see 7 ppl build fits really badly... poor enchanters, 2/3 of them will never find party and have to reroll (probably tanks). Melee classes fit well (cuz there are 3 of them you can combine). Mages fits ... wel not good really. Healers - there will be twice more of them than needed. More rerolls!
And 8 ppl party, I've suggest, with bard - will solve the problem partially! Thank you for your attention, mr. Jae Hyuk Han! Too bad, you will never read this :-)
ps. Yes. I care.
So I can add few suggestions to petition text:
1) Awakening system.
As options:
- Make 9th class "Bards", and keep it for Bladedancers and Swordsingers. Add some new bard's DnD skills may be :)
/update added
Enchanter class will be "6 in 1" merge (SwS BD PP WC OL Inspector)
Don't you think its TOO much? 6 classes merge into 1 and make this one 6 time more unneeded/unnecessary.
-I think BD SWS and OL have to be merged into new separate class 'Bard'. Make songs work as buffing auras, OL debuffs - debuffing auras, OL and sws controls - control auras.
So all proportions will be OK, 3 in 1 and 3 in 1 merge, new support and control class. Bishops will have 'healing and cleansing trees' , and bards will have static auras working close to them, why not?
//
- Let player chose into wich of 2 (or more) classes they want to "awake".
e.g. Enchanter and Tank options for Bards, Summoner and Mage for Necromancers and Overlords (if summoner class suggest any "crowd control" skills - why not?)
- Make free main/subclass change service and free ingame armors and weapons exchange event. Why should bards change their heavy armour sets (1800 resists +6 rare) for robe and make all farm fun again ?
2) Party size.
As options:
- Keep it 9 players, or 8 (7+ 1 more slot for bards).
- Make free weapons/armors exchange : robe <> heavy same enchants/attributes
3)Entire
As options:
- Make GoD as Lineage 3 (2.5 whatever) and open new servers, keep original Lineage 2 High 5 intact.
- Keep "High 5 nostalgia" servers and open new with GoD update
- Don't change anything let us play :> j/k
And just a bit about Western players' style, likes, dislikes and concerns:
I'm not sure about NA community, but I think I know a bit about EU community game style, I've played here since 2006 and made some conclusions about...
So
/IMHO Our play style is constant groups based, not even 9 people but sometimes even 12 or more + all we have inside clan. We don't use really party matching system (well... at all) we don't use friends list and global chats to find parties, we form it constant based - same people all time, many years. We always prefer such player to any random person or person inside clan, or person inside alliance (in such priority) and never - random 'untag' / neutral. We always use team-speak as minimal requirement - it is tactical game for us, not 'random fun groups'.
AND all this complex things we need for... PVP. open free pvp for something usefull we need, but *not* for instanced Bosses farming.
This is role playing game. We choose rare and hard classes such as Overlord, Shillien Elder, Sword singer - to play it all the time, we don't want such act of RP violence as 'Enchanter' class! Why damage dealers on range, Mages and Archers, will not be combined into one range DD class, but Bards and Buffers and Overlords - will be? This is kind of RP discrimination, we don't want it here in our favourite game!
That's why such "35->8 , 9->7" reformations will kill our game play style for sure... We can't and won't play AION here, sorry...
2)Party size reducing from 9 and 7, NA/EU game play style influence. Class distribution problems (60% of support classes will loose constant parties and will be forced to change class / reroll, lack of Tank classes etc)
There are more players with damages classes than healer/enchanter.
There are a lot of partys without healers and enchanters because you don't found easy this classes. If you merge all enchanters and healers, you have healers and enchanters for a lot of partys. Sorry but the game need this changes.
lol you ppl cry way too much for knowing like 2-3 % of the changes in GoD , you know they will name all awekened toons with some name , but you have no idea what skills the awekened players will have , you have no idea how they will change the exping pre 85 , but this is befor every update when ppl know only the basic change not in detail they cry few months befor the update how update X will kill the game etc , and when the update come out and ppl play it , they are like "Oh this is actualy cool ...."
So just w8 for the patch notes and PTS to be up in korea , so we know what actualy the game will look like and then start ur endless QQ
There are more players with damages classes than healer/enchanter.
There are a lot of partys without healers and enchanters because you don't found easy this classes. If you merge all enchanters and healers, you have healers and enchanters for a lot of partys. Sorry but the game need this changes.
I disagree. Lineage II is unique from other MMO's because of the 30+ classes that all differ. Bringing them back to only 8 impacts the game alot, unless they are able to balance it just right. Knowing NCSoft alot of classes will still be unbalanced and will take multiply patches to fix. I disagree on the way they plan it; Tank, Rogue, Archer, Enchanter, Healer, Wizard, Summoner, Warrior. They split daggers and archers into two different classes, while they are way more alike then all warrior classes. Warrior classes are both light and heavy armor, all different on what kind of damage they do. I.e. comparing Soulhound with Titan. In this new class-system they both Warrior, but noway they are even closely related. Also where does the Maestro fits in? It's neither a Warrior (no damage like Fortune Seeker) or Summoner (Hell Knight, Pheonix Knight aren't either). Maestro is one of those very unique classes.
Aren't gonna say or reply more. Lineage II NA/EU is a 'different' product according to NCSoft. Korean dev wouldn't listen to us even if 60% of NA/EU playerbase will disagree.
Thing, that i'm not really shure about, but that buggs me is. That all summoners will be the same now. Have same summons, same skills. Then there comes a question. Why the hell i needed to play phantom summoner solo if i could rise a warlock and leech in dd party with queens buff. If i will end the same. And i think some elementalists wouldn't be so happy about such a thing too. I don't like, that all my icons have cats on them. And now - 2 skills, that have fat cat animations. And talking about animations. How long will i "heal" summon instead of a proper recharge animation.
We all chose our characters cuz of some skills, stats etc. And now everything will be in one? The only difference would be race speciffic skill. Don't think thats enough and will please many ppl. Ok, give some skills, that are the same in all summoners, healres, tanks etc. But give them their own speciffic skills (and not useless ones, plz).
Aren't gonna say or reply more. Lineage II NA/EU is a 'different' product according to NCSoft. Korean dev wouldn't listen to us even if 60% of NA/EU playerbase will disagree.
Yes, maybe it is too (but if they plan to rebirth the player base in EU/NA too with the GoD we have better chance), but not just we EU/NA players don't want it, the Korean and Russian community don't want the changes too and I'm sure, that higher part of player base don't want these changes in another region too.
Together if we can collect to 1 unit the player base requests from the different regions we can control the development team.
It gonna be too late tho I'm afraid... In russia we say "It is too late to drink "Borjomi" if your kidneys are dead"
Yes, I total agree this viewpoint. We have to try everything, what we can do for keep this game as we loved and love it under many years.
But this first part of your petition, I can't accept it they have to keep all currently third classes, ALL!
We have to try defend every unique thing in this game what we have currently. The 36 Classes, The Olympiad Games (in High Five form), The Fortress and Castles Sieges, The Territory Wars, The Politic System.
As destructor told, He think about 10 months need to release the live Goddess of Destruction in Korea, so we have got 10 months to force the development team to complete our requests!
There are more players with damages classes than healer/enchanter.
There are a lot of partys without healers and enchanters because you don't found easy this classes. If you merge all enchanters and healers, you have healers and enchanters for a lot of partys. Sorry but the game need this changes.
Maybe NA/EU needed these changes, but L2 definitly not...
Look the top 5 of most played classes on any Russian servers, support classes are the most played here... (Doomcryer often being the number 1).
The lack of support is specific to NA/EU server, because of your selfish mentality.
There are more players with damages classes than healer/enchanter.
There are a lot of partys without healers and enchanters because you don't found easy this classes. If you merge all enchanters and healers, you have healers and enchanters for a lot of partys. Sorry but the game need this changes.
That is false, there are allot of players that do play an enchanter, BD, SwS or healer as main class, but ends up playing on some other DD sub because way to many are boxing up those classes to high level leaving all the ones that play them as mains to solo and get left behind in levels and not welcomed in the high end parties.
Then people complain that there aren't enough high level enchanters, BDs, SwSs or healers in the game that plays those classes as mains.
I leveled up one EE to 76...scratched, everyone wanted a Cardinal and Doomcyer.
I leveled up one BD to 79...scratched, people started to box BD/SwS making live BDs absolute.
I started to level a WC, but didn't manage to even hit level 70 on it before everyone started to box one.
I leveled up a Cardinal to 79, but end up playing on alts while waiting for people to login.
Now I will just do what the majority in L2 is doing and play this game like it's a single player RPG and box the classes that I need to level a new char up.
well, to solve the Buffers's and Healers's problem is easy. All classes have to get some skills where is need a player as a support, not a box character as a support.
Next of these anyway if available everybody make party at firstly with a living player as with a box (if we talk about 4 members or higher party it is 100%).
There are more players with damages classes than healer/enchanter.
There are a lot of partys without healers and enchanters because you don't found easy this classes. If you merge all enchanters and healers, you have healers and enchanters for a lot of partys. Sorry but the game need this changes.
my friends & me which are almost all support chars with dd build will either quit or keep play together so if you think in this case that sws/bd/dc/pp/se/ol will means 6 available enchanters for 6 parties you're dead wrong.
doubt we'll be the only ones who feel that way too
That is false, there are allot of players that do play an enchanter, BD, SwS or healer as main class, but ends up playing on some other DD sub because way to many are boxing up those classes to high level leaving all the ones that play them as mains to solo and get left behind in levels and not welcomed in the high end parties.
Then people complain that there aren't enough high level enchanters, BDs, SwSs or healers in the game that plays those classes as mains.
I leveled up one EE to 76...scratched, everyone wanted a Cardinal and Doomcyer.
I leveled up one BD to 79...scratched, people started to box BD/SwS making live BDs absolute.
I started to level a WC, but didn't manage to even hit level 70 on it before everyone started to box one.
I leveled up a Cardinal to 79, but end up playing on alts while waiting for people to login.
Now I will just do what the majority in L2 is doing and play this game like it's a single player RPG and box the classes that I need to level a new char up.
Maybe that is what they are also trying to correct, truth is that many classes we point out are now dead and being boxed by everyone (i.e. most buffers).
Other point i see in GoD is that iit can be an attempt to correct the unbelivable problem the third part programs caused to the game, make everyone start on the same pattamar is most likely a way to end up with the advantage of third part program users, off course worth nothing if they don't start to prevent it to happen again.
P.s.: Most of people that say they will quit usually stay, you can't say it's bad until we test it.
In my opinion,game does need changes in classes but not to become a different game like GOD will be,it need changes that will make it look more like his original form.You may say all the classes did exist in c3,yes,but no party needed all their skills exept for some raid, since the areas and the dmg were totally different.We do have problem on finding active specific classes(every constant is lf swm) and all 85+ party areas need full buffs s/d/heal.
Some suggestions
-Remember nukers had sleep skill?this was enough to control crowd of mobs and make cardinal useless in the past,give them sleep back and merge ee/bp/se into 1 class,add them a pet assistant to recharge them and a much higher recharge skill so they can recharge all nuker's party.
-Make bd/sws 1 class,i trully believe it.
-Make pp/judi 1 class(change his -74 buffs with new improved ones) and wc/ol 1 class(the revival of pp!).
-Make all sumoners 1 class so they can fit in party.
-Leave kamael as they are(exept judi skills that go to pp!),nerf skills like mass stun/mass disarm/mass ancor(give back ancor to necro),keep them in game for their higher running speed.
-Stop adding skills to daggers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(i read somewhere about new hide that lasts longer and dagger can attack and kill being in hide ?!?!?#!!?!!!#?!!!)
-Make tank again what it suppose to be,the one who can handle most of dmg and aggro to protect his party,having some dd skills is acceptable,keep adding skills that turn them into dds is not.
Leave dds/nukers/dorfs as they are.People who choosed them,choosed and lvl them for their differences,just add them power skills to be always near their role in game. Remember,necro is a nuker with curse powers and pet assistant,keep adding him both nuke skills and curses,pet cant replace all. ))
-Remove augm from game.
-Add to all dds/nukers basic selfbuffs.
-Yes to Oly,but dont make supports monsters with nuke skills/heal skills,tank monsters with 1234555666 uds,dagger monsters with hide ect ect ect.
I would like Nswest to help us with this petition, like players of NA servers petition to developers.
Maybe that is what they are also trying to correct, truth is that many classes we point out are now dead and being boxed by everyone (i.e. most buffers).
Other point i see in GoD is that iit can be an attempt to correct the unbelivable problem the third part programs caused to the game, make everyone start on the same pattamar is most likely a way to end up with the advantage of third part program users, off course worth nothing if they don't start to prevent it to happen again.
P.s.: Most of people that say they will quit usually stay, you can't say it's bad until we test it.
I agree.
Where are the prophets in game? It's rare somebody play this class.
true enough, as said among the many friends I play with are classes like 85 Domi/Heiro/Meastro/FortuneSeekers and they all love their classes and always have through out the good & bad timez just gotta find the right ppl ^^
good topic to show us there is some care from NC Korea for our community also. Don't miss the chance ppls, make this petition topic more constructive, we need to show our Western players' style, likes, dislikes and concerns
-Make all sumoners 1 class so they can fit in party.
And that is exactly the reason why I think about leaving game if that happens. I'm not playing a Spectral Master, or been hero for this class, to get cats, polarbears and other junk on my shortcut bar to summon. I've chosen to play the harder Dark Elf summoner class to get turned into some half-baked combo of Arcana Lords and Elemental Master. Alot of Arcana Lords don't know how to play their class anyway. They have a 20min Feline macro and just follow the group. Elemental Masters are almost dead, because mages don't need Serpahim buff to do great damage. Spectral Masters solo to much because sadly most of the melee parties don't know that Spectral Lord is a massive damage dealer with great potention. Why? Because NCSoft neglected to develop this class until Kamael launch. Merging all summoner classes into one doesn't help it.
Hope its all a bunch of stupid rumors, cos if this is true it is a reason to search for another game. I mean will the race disappear also? Why can't they tell us anything? Isn't GoD already played in Korea? Seems to me like a different game, perhaps I want to stick with the old one.
Also, don't agree about EU players only playing const. Not at all actually, I have seen mostly solo playing. Maybe this will change with High Five
In my opinion,game does need changes in classes but not to become a different game like GOD will be,it need changes that will make it look more like his original form.You may say all the classes did exist in c3,yes,but no party needed all their skills exept for some raid, since the areas and the dmg were totally different.We do have problem on finding active specific classes(every constant is lf swm) and all 85+ party areas need full buffs s/d/heal.
Some suggestions
-Remember nukers had sleep skill?this was enough to control crowd of mobs and make cardinal useless in the past,give them sleep back and merge ee/bp/se into 1 class,add them a pet assistant to recharge them and a much higher recharge skill so they can recharge all nuker's party.
-Make bd/sws 1 class,i trully believe it.
-Make pp/judi 1 class(change his -74 buffs with new improved ones) and wc/ol 1 class(the revival of pp!).
-Make all sumoners 1 class so they can fit in party.
-Leave kamael as they are(exept judi skills that go to pp!),nerf skills like mass stun/mass disarm/mass ancor(give back ancor to necro),keep them in game for their higher running speed.
-Stop adding skills to daggers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(i read somewhere about new hide that lasts longer and dagger can attack and kill being in hide ?!?!?#!!?!!!#?!!!)
-Make tank again what it suppose to be,the one who can handle most of dmg and aggro to protect his party,having some dd skills is acceptable,keep adding skills that turn them into dds is not.
Leave dds/nukers/dorfs as they are.People who choosed them,choosed and lvl them for their differences,just add them power skills to be always near their role in game. Remember,necro is a nuker with curse powers and pet assistant,keep adding him both nuke skills and curses,pet cant replace all. ))
-Remove augm from game.
-Add to all dds/nukers basic selfbuffs.
-Yes to Oly,but dont make supports monsters with nuke skills/heal skills,tank monsters with 1234555666 uds,dagger monsters with hide ect ect ect.
I would like Nswest to help us with this petition, like players of NA servers petition to developers.
Yep, simply make game only for you.
"-Stop adding skills to daggers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
one thing I like about being merged into 1 class is the ranger users wont be able to tell what type of class you really are until you start using skills
1) Awakening system.
As options:
- Make 9th class "Bards", and keep it for Bladedancers and Swordsingers. Add some new bard's DnD skills may be :)
- Let player chose into wich of 2 (or more) classes they want to "awake".
e.g. Enchanter and Tank options for Bards, Summoner and Mage for Necromancers and Overlords (if summoner class suggest any "crowd control" skills - why not?)
- Make free main/subclass change service and free ingame armors and weapons exchange event. Why should bards change their heavy armour sets (1800 resists +6 rare) for robe and make all farm fun again ?
/update added 28 03 2011
-I think BD SWS and OL have to be merged into new separate class 'Bard'. Make songs work as buffing auras, OL debuffs - debuffing auras, OL and sws controls - control auras.
So all proportions will be OK, 3 in 1 and 3 in 1 merge, new support and control class. Bishops will have 'healing and cleansing trees' , and bards will have static auras working close to them, why not?
//
2) Party size.
As options:
- Keep it 9 players.
- Make free weapons/armors exchange : robe <> heavy same enchants/attributes
3)Entire
As options:
- Make GoD as Lineage 3 (2.5 whatever) and open new servers, keep original Lineage 2 High 5 intact.
- Keep "High 5 nostalgia" servers and open new with GoD update
- Don't change anything let us play :> j/k
And just a bit about Western players' style, likes, dislikes and concerns:
I'm not sure about NA community, but I think I know a bit about EU community game style, I've played here since 2006 and made some conclusions about...
So
/IMHO Our play style is constant groups based, not even 9 people but sometimes even 12 or more + all we have inside clan. We don't use really party matching system (well... at all) we don't use friends list and global chats to find parties, we form it constant based - same people all time, many years. We always prefer such player to any random person or person inside clan, or person inside alliance (in such priority) and never - random 'untag' / neutral. We always use team-speak as minimal requirement - it is tactical game for us, not 'random fun groups'.
AND all this complex things we need for... PVP. open free pvp for something usefull we need, but *not* for instanced Bosses farming.
This is role playing game. We choose rare and hard classes such as Overlord, Shillien Elder, Sword singer - to play it all the time, we don't want such act of RP violence as 'Enchanter' class! Why damage dealers on range, Mages and Archers, will not be combined into one range DD class, but Bards and Buffers and Overlords - will be? This is kind of RP discrimination, we don't want it here in our favourite game!
That's why such "35->8 , 9->7" reformations will kill our game play style for sure... We can't and won't play AION here, sorry...
lol
What is the point of this thread? we know nothing for certain other the reducing of 9 to 7 ppl in party. Other then that there are no complete info on how things will work, and we should send a petition about this? :D
and propositions is
Dear NCsoft and Dear Lineage II Development team.
As we heard on the last G-Star show you develop to us a new update/expansion to the Lineage II, what name is Goddess of Destruction. We hear about this "New Project" already since 5 months. We all know, that we still just heard very few information about the Goddess of Destruction, but what we already know about the GoD, we the Lineage II community don't like it. We want, that you keep the Lineage II's own unique system and don't destroy the game with drastical changes.
In the upcoming ten points you can read, what the community of Lineage II wait from you in the future:
1. Classes of Lineage II:
- Keep the currently 36 different third classes and share between them the skills what are already developed. Or all the 36 classes let's get own unique 4th classes (36 4th classes) and share between them the skills what are already developed.
2. Skill system:
- Don't remove the skills after level 85, be all currently skills are useful too on level 99 too.
- Don't remove from the game the skill enchant system, let the player overenchant their 2nd class skills from 30 to 45, their 3rd class skills from 15 to 30.
3. Party system:
- Keep the maximum 9 members in a party form.
- Expand the maximum number of party to 12, by this step more players will available to find party.
4. Hunting Zones:
- Remake some hunting grounds for the players who are between level 1-70 and add new hunting zones the player who are between 85-99.
- The new or revamped raid bosses appear in opened instance zones.
- Add new, interesting and useful feature to lower level hunting grounds, what with the new player can enjoy the game much more.
5. Leveling proccess:
- Don't decrease, the requisite XP of the levels between 1-85, but add much more useful quests between 1-80 what with the players can get easier new weapons, armors etc. (what are help for them in leveling proccess).
6. Olympiad system:
- The minimum requirement of the Olympiad games keep the currently requirement (3rd class, level 76, Noblesse).
- In the Goddess of Destruction too, be available to every 36 different classes one-one own hero position.
7. Items:
- The new weapons, armors, jewelries are able to craft, trade and drop too.
- Every new key materials and recipes are able to spoil too.
8. Graphic and game design:
- Keep the currently game design. If you plan to develop to the game the effect when the hit points appear on the damaged mobs, let us an option mode, what with we can turn in or turn off this effect. Don't force the player to play with a "World of Warcraft clone" or an "AION clone".
- Give new and nicer light, water and shadow effect.
- Solve the lagg problems (if it is neccesary with a new engine).
- Get the Lineage II DirectX 11 support.
9. Movement system:
- Delete this new special jump from the Goddess of Destruction, it has very nice effect, but it hasn't part in the Lineage II.
10. Political system:
- Keep the currently form of clan politic system. Let every clans to make clan war against another clan(s) or make alliance with another clan(s).
- What we currently know about the siege system of the Goddess of Destruction we agree it.
- Keep the Territory War system in the game.
- Keep the currently free PVP and PK system.
- Add new and more features in the political and PVP system (example Headhunter system).
ps. I doubt mr. Jae Hyuk Han will receive any of these :/
Desert Eagle, I total agree your new petition, this is what need to us. We have to find the way how we send it to Korea. Next of them we have to put this to popular community sites as Facebook or petitiononline.
Most of these points of petition are important points for the Korean players too!
So, we have to find the way of it, how we can show this petition to much, much Asian players (not only for Korean players). Most of them sure, that will support them.
And yes the Goddess of Destruction update can be a rebirth in the EU/NA region at firstly if the NCwest will make marketing for it, but for the success will need to change on these things for the development team or it will destroy everywhere the Lineage 2 population!
in all classes(even the ones that never were popular)there s someone that doesnt want to loose his class and be merged with something similar(example summoner)
all people inside game shout about daggers skills that are impossible to bit without auto programs(like hide)but still there was 1 person who doesnt agree with me saying stop adding to daggers crazy skills!!!!(like been able to hit and still keep hide mode or clone multiple wariors of themselfs)
every constant party player in Naia has title ''CONS LF SWM/EE/CARDI'' (at least..)since those classes were almost boxed and runned from programs(and now they are afraid to do it due to new ban policy)but people here want to keep 9man party and even extend it to 12man party!
I support the idea of petition but we need to think more carefully what we 'r asking.Correct the things L2 is suffering from and obtain from GOD the good changes(if there are).
But still you want sent petition refusing what devs thought to make game survive.Better sit down and think more what we really need in game as it is now?
The things that need to change for sure in my opinion are
-keep the races as they are,people choosed this race because thats what they like.
-sws and bd share shame songs+dances at 4th grade change,some partys allready pay real money to someone to accept play a sws account.
-inquistor buffs debuffs go to se/ ee/pp,all skills to all of them(for this i insist,no other way to keep recharging 4 nukers in party and no other way to see inquistor skills in use,kamaels want to play as dds not as buffers).
-keep cardinal as main healer but give more pomandur to ee/se,the idea is both of them can have resist shock/clarity/bag/major heal/group major heal/rez 80%(ee has it)-mass rez for se(se without high rez will never find place in party),so if party cant find cardinal,se/ee can make most of cardi's job.I dont propose se/ee/cardi to get same skills as merged class only because i know active cardis/ee will refuge to merge.
-keep 9man party,with 1 less person from sws/bd merge,we can take 1 more dd or a class like tank/kamael.
-dont give daggers anything crazy anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!all skills that are added to a class should have their opposite way to defeat them,i can give you example of old nukers high dmg and critical rate 2-3 shooting people,but they were killed always if you could see them first and run into them.Skills like rush/disarm/stun on low con classes/hide/clone wariors of my self ect..must be corrected.
one thing I like about being merged into 1 class is the ranger users wont be able to tell what type of class you really are until you start using skills
-dont give daggers anything crazy anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!all skills that are added to a class should have their opposite way to defeat them,i can give you example of old nukers high dmg and critical rate 2-3 shooting people,but they were killed always if you could see them first and run into them.Skills like rush/disarm/stun on low con classes/hide/clone wariors of my self ect..must be corrected.
daggers are WAY underpowered....
a dagger should never loose against nuker in oly...
(but we see this just if the dagger is stacked out!)
and a dagger has just a 10% chance to win against tank... and 10% is high counted !....
random daggers will never kill anything !
daggers are way tooo weak... only dagger who is ok is TH
Change the name of the game to WOW 2.0 (fits the new game i think)
p.s. do some marketing, cous at this rate, all NA/EU servers will be dead in 1 year
Though WoW has better graphics and the WoW engine is actually optimized through the years.
a dagger should never loose against nuker in oly...
(but we see this just if the dagger is stacked out!)
and a dagger has just a 10% chance to win against tank... and 10% is high counted !....
random daggers will never kill anything !
daggers are way tooo weak... only dagger who is ok is TH
Are you on drugs ? Daggers underpowered .. What else are we going to read ...
A dagger NEVER loose in Oly from nuker (same levels / gear) and that's the problem.
WHY A DAGGER SHOULD NEVER LOOSE IN OLY FROM NUKER ???
You are joking right?
You want to say that Lineage 2 has better graphics?:p You actually seen WoW on maximum quality (Cataclysm)?
I don't want to promote WoW here, since I quit it some months a go (and started playing Lineage 2 some weeks a go). But it actually has better graphics.
But I was talking about Oly same level / skill / gear. Not about some imba levle 85 StS on Epic's and +15 / +30 skills vs level 80 dagger.It's pretty obvious that is kinda easier to kill a robe with dagger that the other way round.
You see, if some1 always almost kill you with 2 skills while most of the time you cannot see him or target him you don't have many chances of survival. The running around, back on wall, spamming flash etc, etc, is kinda harder than just hide / backstub / mortal blow/ lethal blow / etc.
Try doing it by hand and then tell me. Unless you don't do it yourself and something else is taking care of hide / targeting / backstub.
One more suggestion to add.
Enchanter class will be "6 in 1" merge (SwS BD PP WC OL Inspector)
Don't you think its TOO much? 6 classes merge into 1 and make this one 6 time more unneeded.
I think BD SWS and OL have to be merged into new separate class 'Bard'. Make songs work as buffing auras, OL debuffs - debuffing auras, OL and sws controls - control auras.
So all proportions will be OK, 3 in 1 and 3 in 1 merge, new support and control class. Bishops will have 'healing and cleansing trees' , and bards will have static auras working close to them, why not?
1) Awakening system.
As options:
- Make 9th class "Bards", and keep it for Bladedancers and Swordsingers. Add some new bard's DnD skills may be :)
/update added 28 03 2011
Enchanter class will be "6 in 1" merge (SwS BD PP WC OL Inspector)
Don't you think its TOO much? 6 classes merge into 1 and make this one 6 time more unneeded/unnecessary.
-I think BD SWS and OL have to be merged into new separate class 'Bard'. Make songs work as buffing auras, OL debuffs - debuffing auras, OL and sws controls - control auras.
So all proportions will be OK, 3 in 1 and 3 in 1 merge, new support and control class. Bishops will have 'healing and cleansing trees' , and bards will have static auras working close to them, why not?
//
- Let player chose into wich of 2 (or more) classes they want to "awake".
e.g. Enchanter and Tank options for Bards, Summoner and Mage for Necromancers and Overlords (if summoner class suggest any "crowd control" skills - why not?)
- Make free main/subclass change service and free ingame armors and weapons exchange event. Why should bards change their heavy armour sets (1800 resists +6 rare) for robe and make all farm fun again ?
2) Party size.
As options:
- Keep it 9 players, or 8 players (1 more slot for Bard class).
- Make free weapons/armors exchange : robe <> heavy same enchants/attributes
3)Entire
As options:
- Make GoD as Lineage 3 (2.5 whatever) and open new servers, keep original Lineage 2 High 5 intact.
- Keep "High 5 nostalgia" servers and open new with GoD update
- Don't change anything let us play :> j/k
And just a bit about Western players' style, likes, dislikes and concerns:
I'm not sure about NA community, but I think I know a bit about EU community game style, I've played here since 2006 and made some conclusions about...
So
/IMHO Our play style is constant groups based, not even 9 people but sometimes even 12 or more + all we have inside clan. We don't use really party matching system (well... at all) we don't use friends list and global chats to find parties, we form it constant based - same people all time, many years. We always prefer such player to any random person or person inside clan, or person inside alliance (in such priority) and never - random 'untag' / neutral. We always use team-speak as minimal requirement - it is tactical game for us, not 'random fun groups'.
AND all this complex things we need for... PVP. open free pvp for something usefull we need, but *not* for instanced Bosses farming.
This is role playing game. We choose rare and hard classes such as Overlord, Shillien Elder, Sword singer - to play it all the time, we don't want such act of RP violence as 'Enchanter' class! Why damage dealers on range, Mages and Archers, will not be combined into one range DD class, but Bards and Buffers and Overlords - will be? This is kind of RP discrimination, we don't want it here in our favourite game!
That's why such "35->8 , 9->7" reformations will kill our game play style for sure... We can't and won't play AION here, sorry...
/update
stay on top.
Any ideas how to provide this petition to be delivered to mr. Jae Hyuk Han (NCsoft in Korea) ??
You want to say that Lineage 2 has better graphics?:p You actually seen WoW on maximum quality (Cataclysm)?
I don't want to promote WoW here, since I quit it some months a go (and started playing Lineage 2 some weeks a go). But it actually has better graphics.
The only thing that WoW has that looks better is some landscapes and the new water effects. But the character/NPC/monster models, spell effects, and skins in this game blow WoW's away.
a dagger should never loose against nuker in oly...
(but we see this just if the dagger is stacked out!)
and a dagger has just a 10% chance to win against tank... and 10% is high counted !....
random daggers will never kill anything !
daggers are way tooo weak... only dagger who is ok is TH
Dagger underpowered? really? you play another game i guess, you 1 hit the nuker if you get close, and why it should allways win?? IMO noone should get uto wins against any other class, but that is what people ask, a way to have free wins without any real skills, taht is what most of the overpowered classes are like in l2, and they still whant more so tehy can win everyone sowhy don't we ALL rerool 1 single class so next time when nc thinks in cut the number of classes tehy will reduce from 8 to a single one and hey it's the only one that can win right?
no one at any NCsoft office is going to take this petition seriously. you are speculating on something of which you have no first hand experience with. Without any real notes from korean pts and getting the usual silence from the bozos that run this outfit, we are left to wonder what the update will bring. You are basing your petition on many assumptions that may ultimately prove to be false.
I recommend patience. if your worst fears are realized, feel free to freak out.
You want to say that Lineage 2 has better graphics?:p You actually seen WoW on maximum quality (Cataclysm)?
I don't want to promote WoW here, since I quit it some months a go (and started playing Lineage 2 some weeks a go). But it actually has better graphics.
Sure..if you like coloring books with neyon markers
You are basing your petition on many assumptions that may ultimately prove to be false
6 unique classes (Overlord, Prophet, Bladedancer, Swordsinger, Inspector, Warcryer) will merge into ONE Enchanter class. Is this 'assumption'?? Do you, people, find such actions acceptable in *Massive* ROLE playing game?? I can't accept this.
I used to play swordsinger 4 years, friend of mine - as Overlord, for example. Another one - as bladedancer, warcryer. So WHY we have to play now same characters with same skills? Who did ask us are we agree? Do we want such act of Role Playing violence? And what party we can build now with 4 clones-enchanters? Someone have to 'reroll'? Is this new type of NCsoft's game community policy?
6 unique classes (Overlord, Prophet, Bladedancer, Swordsinger, Inspector, Warcryer) will merge into ONE Enchanter class. Is this 'assumption'?? Do you, people, find such actions acceptable in *Massive* ROLE playing game?? I can't accept this.
I used to play swordsinger 4 years, friend of mine - as Overlord, for example. Another one - as bladedancer, warcryer. So WHY we have to play now same characters with same skills? Who did ask us are we agree? Do we want such act of Role Playing violence? And what party we can build now with 4 clones-enchanters? Someone have to 'reroll'? Is this new type of NCsoft's game community policy?
We still do not know how exactly it's going to end up, one interpretation would be yours, another possible interpretation would be:
- 6 current classes will awaken as the new enchanter class
- they will lose certain skills in order to gain new awakened skills, this does not necessarily mean *all* old skills are forgotten, some key class defining skills may still be kept.
- mage/fighters will keep mage/fighter stats, so buffing an entire group may still prove impossible for fighter classes with lesser MP pool/regen, while mages themselves may not be able to hold songs/dances as well as buff....etc. so there *may* still be a need for more than one of the new enchanter class in each group.
Again, this is all speculation... noone will know until it goes live... even during PTS things may change drastically.
And one more thing about 7 ppl parties and healers...
Basic party build in GoD update suggests Tank Healer Enchanter 4 dd (or3 dd + summoner) isn't it?
But did you see, really, any pvp game with ONE HEALER? Who will res him? Who will be second heal to save main one from assist burst damage? Even AION have 2nd heal as Chanter class... Don't mention here "Healing Trees" or pixies please, stupid AI can't replace a player
AFAIK, GoD enchanters will not get any heals, so what to do with 2nd heal?
If you take 2 ex-bishops you will have 'support parties' again, same as before - 5 supports 2 dd vs 6 supports 3 dd now.
So I suggest a Bard class (which one will be SD & SWM & OL (optional) awakened), could take 8th slot in party builds and some 2nd healer / resurrect skills or auras for hp regen maybe). And we will have 4 suppots & 4 DD party balance. Why not?
NA/EU player base is so small, this petition is doomed by default.
Also the game is NO LONGER pvp oriented. So what for 2nd healer? If you have tank it is not necessary. Also we dont know what skills will be introduced with awakened state, maybe slef res? why not if tanks already has it..
Besides the whole const 9 man party idea is pure ****. It makes people stuck in with those small number groups and not being able to play with anyone else, just because they are so afraid about drops etc and loosing to other const they compete for "gold panties"..
And one more thing about 7 ppl parties and healers...
Basic party build in GoD update suggests Tank Healer Enchanter 4 dd (or3 dd + summoner) isn't it?
But did you see, really, any pvp game with ONE HEALER? Who will res him? Who will be second heal to save main one from assist burst damage? Even AION have 2nd heal as Chanter class... Don't mention here "Healing Trees" or pixies please, stupid AI can't replace a player
AFAIK, GoD enchanters will not get any heals, so what to do with 2nd heal?
If you take 2 ex-bishops you will have 'support parties' again, same as before - 5 supports 2 dd vs 6 supports 3 dd now.
So I suggest a Bard class (which one will be SD & SWM & OL (optional) awakened), could take 8th slot in party builds and some 2nd healer / resurrect skills or auras for hp regen maybe). And we will have 4 suppots & 4 DD party balance. Why not?
ever heard of brez ?
NA/EU player base is so small, this petition is doomed by default.
Also the game is NO LONGER pvp oriented. So what for 2nd healer? If you have tank it is not necessary. Also we dont know what skills will be introduced with awakened state, maybe slef res? why not if tanks already has it..
Besides the whole const 9 man party idea is pure ****. It makes people stuck in with those small number groups and not being able to play with anyone else, just because they are so afraid about drops etc and loosing to other const they compete for "gold panties"..
RU OFF has the same concerns and they do represent quite a big chunk of revenue for NC Soft.
The pvp implications will mean most RU players will stop play L2 so those are very valid concerns..
The const. party set up is more or less mandatory for pvp clans to ensure all party members are well tuned to their party set up, no such thing when making random/casual parties.
Also on the party set up IMHO there shouldn't be a Max. Make it so that past 7ppl the XP gained will be significantly less etc. but leave it at 9 ( or even better increase it to 10+ so I can group more friends ^^" ).
Dude, skill balance can not involve external items, such as brez, milk freshes etc.
so by your logic if both healers die , we should give rez skill and heal skill to every other class so they can heal support the healer and the healer support ?
RU OFF has the same concerns and they do represent quite a big chunk of revenue for NC Soft.
NC have nothing to do with the RU servers , the company INOVA bought the rights for L2 in Russia , and they adjust the new updates the way they want , and implant in the game what they want .
You want to say that Lineage 2 has better graphics?:p You actually seen WoW on maximum quality (Cataclysm)?
I don't want to promote WoW here, since I quit it some months a go (and started playing Lineage 2 some weeks a go). But it actually has better graphics.
Try playing LineAge2 on top graphics and with glows etc, WoW is different type graphic and is made as "cartoon" and you can't compare WoW or l2 and dunno why you mentioned that "Kinder surprise" game on LineAge2 forum.
Try playing LineAge2 on top graphics and with glows etc, WoW is different type graphic and is made as "cartoon" and you can't compare WoW or l2 and dunno why you mentioned that "Kinder surprise" game on LineAge2 forum.
I have played both wow and l2 for a couple of years, and it is true, you can't compare them game wise, but Blizzard's advertising and bussiness model should be a guideline for NCWest, L2 still has a lot of potential, and if advertised and cared well, it could easily compete with wow.
NC have nothing to do with the RU servers , the company INOVA bought the rights for L2 in Russia , and they adjust the new updates the way they want , and implant in the game what they want .
If GoD breaks the pvp aspect then not even Inova can fix that except by not implementing the whole GoD update at all..
So I did some calculations also, based on server Cadmus class count statistics.
1st, I put party needed proportions for each class:
Standard GoD 7 ppl party build: Tank, Healer, Enchanter, Summoner, 3 dd (2 archers/2 daggers/2 warriors - any combination 1/2/3).
Tank - 1/7
Warrior - 2/7
Dagger - 2/7
Mage - 3/7 (3 mages and 1 summoner for mage party)
Archer - 2/7
Summoner - 1/7 I hope summoner will be needed :) Can't put 0/7.... well you know ... :)
Enchanter - 1/7
Healer - 1/7
And for 8 ppl party with new class Bards (sws, bd, ol):
Tank - 1/8
Warrior - 2/8
Dagger - 2/8
Mage - 3/8
Archer - 2/8
Summoner - 1/8
Enchanter (wc,pp,Ins) - 1/8
Bard (sws, bd, ol) - 1/8
Healer - 1/8
2nd, I calculated
- How many all classes count should be (versus real count) to fit proportions above
- How real count fits well (in %) to needed counts.
100% - fits good,
<100% - fits bad.
>100% - too much players in one class, all of them will have to 'reroll' or use event for any other class awakening (same as reroll actually...). All other needed quantity are potential % of players of that class, who will have to REROLL forcibly, or play solo, or leave game.
As you can see 7 ppl build fits really badly... poor enchanters, 2/3 of them will never find party and have to reroll (probably tanks). Melee classes fit well (cuz there are 3 of them you can combine). Mages fits ... wel not good really. Healers - there will be twice more of them than needed. More rerolls!
And 8 ppl party, I've suggest, with bard - will solve the problem partially! Thank you for your attention, mr. Jae Hyuk Han! Too bad, you will never read this :-)
ps. Yes. I care.
Yea, but if the russian server is anything like here then people have buff boxes that they use, so it's a little misleading to just look at pure numbers. I know I have a PP and SE, many others have 1 or 2 (if not more) buff toons, but I don't think that comes close to reflecting chars that will actively level past 85. I'm pretty sure it will balance out on the whole.
Yea, but if the russian server is anything like here then people have buff boxes that they use, so it's a little misleading to just look at pure numbers. I know I have a PP and SE, many others have 1 or 2 (if not more) buff toons, but I don't think that comes close to reflecting chars that will actively level past 85. I'm pretty sure it will balance out on the whole.
Of cause you can complain, but all I did I just proved the fact of merging 6 classes into 1 is pure fail for RP game - now proved in numbers.
You kids should wait for patch note translations...
The awakening system isn't as bad as it seems. :D
unless your an enchanter and getting changed in such way it's not even funny.. unless one likes fluffy stuff ofc..
all bufs are party only so not fair to OL's and when looking at the skills my current SwM fully buffed with s/d up & incl. skill oe's is way stronger then what I would get with those "awakened skills" (fire fury war + whisper + cov + cc + +30 weapon mastery for attack speed etc. ftw)..
below is a list of currently known skills for enchanters taking from L2Central (Rochand/Rohirrim) by MYSTERYouse (posted by Elmar):
- Poem of Horn: Increases at lvl 3 for a duration of 30 minutes P.Atk. by 25%, M.Atk. by 95% [ninety-five percent], Atk.Speed by 33% and Casting Speed by 30% for all party members.
- Poem of Drum: Increases at lvl 3 for a duration of 30 minutes P.Def. by 35% and M.Def. by 40% for all party members.
- Poem of Organ: Increases at lvl 3 for a duration of 30 minutes max. HP by 35%, max MP by 35%, HP recovery by 20% and MP recovery by 20% for all party members.
- Poem of Guitar: Increases for a duration of 30 minutes the Crit-related stats for all party members.
- Poem of Harp: Increases at lvl 1 for a duration of 30 minutes Accuracy by 4 points and Evasion by 3 points for all party members while at the same time giving them a Vampiric Rage effect of 2%.
- Poem of Trumpet: Increases at lvl 1 for a duration of 30 minutes Movement Speed by 40 points for all party members.
[When those Poem buffs are cast, little pixies appear in the air]
- Guardian's Harmony: Reduces at lvl 3 for a chosen party member for a duration of 30 minutes P.Atk., M.Atk., Atk.Speed and Casting Speed by 8% while at the same time increasing max. HP by 2431, P.Def. by 982, M.Def. by 569, and Shield Defense Rate by 15%.
- Berserker's Harmony: Bestows to a chosen party member for a duration of 30 minutes the abilities of a close-distance melee fighter.
- Magician's Harmony: Bestows to a chosen party member for a duration of 30 minutes the abilities of a spellcaster.
- Combat Sonata: Increases for a duration of 30 seconds the combat abilities of all party members.
- Blood Requiem: Bestows for a duration of 30 seconds a strong Vampiric Rage ability to all party members.
- Crazy Nocturn: Increases for a duration of 30 seconds the combat abilities of all party members to an extreme degree.
[Those 3 skills are stronger versions of the Kamael Judicator's Instinct skills]
- Temptation Symphony: Delivers a strong attack on the enemies around the target and reduces all their combat stats.
- Change Body: Changes the appearance of the target into that of a different creature.
My question would be if the below can also be cast upon themselves aka an Enchanter as that might be what makes a char really stronger then what's now possible ?
- Berserker's Harmony: Bestows to a chosen party member for a duration of 30 minutes the abilities of a close-distance melee fighter.
- Magician's Harmony: Bestows to a chosen party member for a duration of 30 minutes the abilities of a spellcaster.
you lack essential data to back that conclusion. you have no clue what skills need to be traded to get new skills. also factor in that not all of the skills are earned at level 85. screen shots floating around show the skills learned level 85, 87, 91 and 95. you will not get everything right away. Also, you have zero clue how the skill trading will work. will it be 1:1 or will you have to trade in 3 old skills for 1 new super buff? Also you bring up +30 weapon mastery. why do you assume you have to trade it in?
Based on what is slowing filtering out, all enchanters will not clones of each other. Based on level, race, orginal class, you will be able to spec out a toon. to all of the complainers out there, pick the skills that are to your advantage and stop the teary eyed complaints and self pity. The drama was funny at the beginning but now you just make yourselves look foolish.
maybe cause I have seen screens with what I will lose ? the learn lvl is not a factor that matters, if not for the existing cap I would be already way past lvl 90..
if all enchanters are no clones then we're even in deeper trouble as there's still that lol party size reduction.. can't have it both ways..
read up on the known changes for "enchanter class" as really some classes are going to be way different from what they're now.. not to mention the additional awkward animations on some skills that makes u think ur in a disney movie ><
sure lots of QQ here but honestly can u blame me when I see whats going to happen with my char that I played for more then 7 years ?
you lack essential data to back that conclusion. you have no clue what skills need to be traded to get new skills. also factor in that not all of the skills are earned at level 85. screen shots floating around show the skills learned level 85, 87, 91 and 95. you will not get everything right away. Also, you have zero clue how the skill trading will work. will it be 1:1 or will you have to trade in 3 old skills for 1 new super buff? Also you bring up +30 weapon mastery. why do you assume you have to trade it in?
Based on what is slowing filtering out, all enchanters will not clones of each other. Based on level, race, orginal class, you will be able to spec out a toon. to all of the complainers out there, pick the skills that are to your advantage and stop the teary eyed complaints and self pity. The drama was funny at the beginning but now you just make yourselves look foolish.
no point to explain to these cry babys , they will QQQQQQ every time ,and at the end when we get the update they will be like "OH man i love this update"
maybe cause I have seen screens with what I will lose ? the learn lvl is not a factor that matters, if not for the existing cap I would be already way past lvl 90..
if all enchanters are no clones then we're even in deeper trouble as there's still that lol party size reduction.. can't have it both ways..
read up on the known changes for "enchanter class" as really some classes are going to be way different from what they're now.. not to mention the additional awkward animations on some skills that makes u think ur in a disney movie ><
sure lots of QQ here but honestly can u blame me when I see whats going to happen with my char that I played for more then 7 years ?
i guess you missed the info that NO! will force you to learn the new skill and lose ur old ? you fail to realize that the devs are giving some info out to see what the korean l2 community think , and adjust the game to what the players whant , they already removed some of the skills they showed in octomber and added some new bcoz of the players .
no point to explain to these cry babys , they will QQQQQQ every time ,and at the end when we get the update they will be like "OH man i love this update"
i guess you missed the info that NO! will force you to learn the new skill and lose ur old ? you fail to realize that the devs are giving some info out to see what the korean l2 community think , and adjust the game to what the players whant , they already removed some of the skills they showed in octomber and added some new bcoz of the players .
@the first part:
go check my posting history on my mains account here, Draecke, and tell me where I QQed on the previous updates in the last 7 years.. might not have been a personal directed comment but w/e saying ppl QQ when they raise valid concerns doesn't really contribute much to the actual discussion now does it ?
@2nd part:
Nope, am quite aware of it cause I tend to track all the latest developments on these kind of changes. The thing is that with the max party limit set at 7 we will be kind of forced to adjust as it will be near impossible to keep use the old set up with such restrictions. Also pvp wise we're "forced" to use w/e gives us the highest skill level for landrate/effectiveness maximization.
Koreans also check how NA/RU OFF etc. feels about the changes, not on an equal level of importance but they do read these forums as well, several Korean players for example do and by us having an open dialog with them sharing our feedback we might influence some of what's raised in Korea.. this is important as we all know that after the Korean PTS everything is set in stone.
Having said all of that you might want to comprehend the implications those class distribution numbers Eagle posted (from Goha) as this is far from a done deal and clearly shows the most impacted class are the Enchanters.
Playing nice and wait & see what will happen in Korea after all these years is just a tad to naive & passive for me :)
i guess you missed the info that NO! will force you to learn the new skill and lose ur old ?
Will +30/+15/lvl 83+ debuffs still land on highlevel people?
Will Block WW remove "Poem of Trumpet"?
Willl we be able to "unlearn" new skills learned by mistake, so that we could restore our previous skills?
Is this going to be like gracia and flying transformations, or a kind of hellbound, only you'll be one of those 7 classes when you're in there?
No, it's a class change.
I am sure that NCKR had made all the math / stats before "merging" classes in order for all to have party.
Most seem to forget that the class change has to do with Level 85 Toons. Counting Level 84 main classes of "enchanters" leaving out buff boxes the figure for enchanters available would dramatically change.
In my opinion, there is great difficulty finding leveled and active "enchanters" combo needed in full party. Most of them already have a const, are subs or arrogant ppl that leveled too fast (due to lack of their classes) to join a "random" party. They don't have the patience, they don't want to experiment, they don't opt in anything except optimal and already fine tuned parties. That leaves a lot of ppl playing solo because they can't make a decent full party.
That hides a moral danger which has already materialized at NA/EU region. That's the mentality of BD / SWS that forget to Dance / Sing (have you seen a DD forget to hit?), that leave party without warning to do Zaken / Tezza / Freya, that snubs parties hunting in everything else than "uber" XP areas.
Try to find a BD / SWS / OL on Naia shouting on major cities ...
I see the merging of classes as a positive change specially for non maxed out and non const people. Specially for the enchanter class I totally agree. I am really sick of the situation that
For solo you had option
1) Level your personal buff box and drag it behind you
2) Beg for duo or go with 20 min CH buffs or use milk
For full party you had option
1) Join a const if you are lucky and find spot free in a timeframe that suits you (and then play lineage like it's a second job)
2) Wait for hours just in case a party is formed or you see a shout for your class (most of the times replacing a const member that had not appeared)
That's not a healthy gaming environment. All classes should be able to have parties with equal chance. OFC that change bothers some ppl that were used to the mentality "I am the only one and irreplaceable", "I am pro", "You can't do nothing without me" I am sure that all of us have seen that kind of attitude specially on "enchanter" classes.
I am not saying that all "enchanters" are like that, or that there won't be some annoyances for some friends used to play a specific way all together in 9 ppl parties.
What I am saying is that except them there is also a general population that has many problems to form a decent party due to lack of specific classes.
I am sure that NCKR had made all the math / stats before "merging" classes in order for all to have party.
Most seem to forget that the class change has to do with Level 85 Toons. Counting Level 84 main classes of "enchanters" leaving out buff boxes the figure for enchanters available would dramatically change.
In my opinion, there is great difficulty finding leveled and active "enchanters" combo needed in full party. Most of them already have a const, are subs or arrogant ppl that leveled too fast (due to lack of their classes) to join a "random" party. Try to find a BD / SWS / OL on Naia shouting on major cities ...
I see the merging of classes as a positive change specially for non maxed out and non const people. Specially for the enchanter class I totally agree. I am really sick of the situation that
For full party you had option
1) Join a const if you are lucky and find spot free in a timeframe that suits you (and then play lineage like it's a second job)
2) Wait for hours just in case a party is formed or you see a shout for your class (most of the times replacing a const member that had not appeared)
That's not a healthy gaming environment. All classes should be able to have parties with equal chance. I am not saying that all "enchanters" are like that, or that there won't be some annoyances for some friends used to play a specific way all together in 9 ppl parties.
What I am saying is that except them there is also a general population that has many problems to form a decent party due to lack of specific classes.
/Agree with you and its Hellbound update that brought all this mess in game by forcing us to find swm 78+ (and cardi and ee) from nowhere for great party xp/drops or stay in miserable solo areas and later SOA update that made all nuker partys need find domi or soulhound(who was asking for slh for xp before?).Normal way for classes would be,keep in everyupdate things you need especially those classes for,not just recall them 5 years after.
About the minor number of 85 lvl enchanter,i can say to you every constant in big-medium clans has at least 1-2 that are 83+ now,since we will get GOD after 8+ months and we get frequently vitality events,those people will be 85 by then.
The number of enchanters in general will be rather high. The number of "live" ones (not boxed) will not be so high (at least in the begining). In any case, I believe that NC's move to allow a sub to go 99 level was smart. That way, the class supply/demand will be balanced. This is how I believe it will go:
-If current status quo remains until GoD (main to 85, subs to 80), when it hits live people will focus on their main but will also keep an eye to see what classes actually miss and decide to progress a rellevant sub. Until this happens in sufficient numbers, there will be a shortage or excess in some classes.
-If status quo changes and at some point NC allows a sub to progrees to 85 before GoD hits live, there will be more classes available but it is not certain that they are going to be the right ones (to balance the demand).
A lot will matter on how important is for classes to be alive (especially in PvP).
The number of enchanters in general will be rather high. The number of "live" ones (not boxed) will not be so high (at least in the begining). In any case, I believe that NC's move to allow a sub to go 99 level was smart. That way, the class supply/demand will be balanced. This is how I believe it will go:
-If current status quo remains until GoD (main to 85, subs to 80), when it hits live people will focus on their main but will also keep an eye to see what classes actually miss and decide to progress a rellevant sub. Until this happens in sufficient numbers, there will be a shortage or excess in some classes.
-If status quo changes and at some point NC allows a sub to progrees to 85 before GoD hits live, there will be more classes available but it is not certain that they are going to be the right ones (to balance the demand).
A lot will matter on how important is for classes to be alive (especially in PvP).
only 1 sub can get 99 i think, so in effect it'll be like having 2 mains o.o
About the minor number of 85 lvl enchanter,i can say to you every constant in big-medium clans has at least 1-2 that are 83+ now,since we will get GOD after 8+ months and we get frequently vitality events,those people will be 85 by then.
/Agree
but ...
it does not change the fact that there are not enough "mains" of enchanter classes for all server population (I don't count buff boxes). OFC all const have the required SWS/BD/OL or SWS/BD/WC combo, that's the problem :) Only const's have them.
With the proposed changes of merging all enchanters and making full parties of 7
1) Surplus of enchanters
2) More "full" parties
so, more people of general population will be able to form a party and get an enchanter.
I also hope that at least some of the new hunting grounds / buffs will enable mixed parties also, I am sicked of that Mage / Melee areas. I want to be able to join my friends in a party they form with my sts when they miss a dd.
it does not change the fact that there are not enough "mains" of enchanter classes for all server population (I don't count buff boxes).
And why don't you count buff boxes? If you can box an enchanter for your party, one less live enchanter is "needed".
I also hope that at least some of the new hunting grounds / buffs will enable mixed parties also, I am sicked of that Mage / Melee areas. I want to be able to join my friends in a party they form with my sts when they miss a dd.
We do sometimes invite nukers into melee DV parties.
on Naia and to a certain degree on Chronos as well constant parties are the norm in any serious clan so the numbers of 83+ (end game clans it will be all 85+) supports that are actively played is higher then you guys now suggest..
simple example even though me & most of my friends are not in a clan at all we're all active support: 2 85+ PP 2 85 DC 1 85 OL 1 85 BD 1 85 SWS 1 85 DA (loltank) and for us this upcoming change is seriously going to blow..
my average party set up looks like this: pp/dc/sws/bd/se or ee/cardi/spoiler/ol or a random dd
making party with 64 ppl on FL of which 80% is the missing support classes like healers is no problem, at worst it takes 15min and failing that there's always hero shout to find new players which if good will be added to said FL.. being able to make friends is kind of key in a MMO..
ps, as Krissa is trying to explain ppl that box support now will still box in GoD (all it does is lowering their Monthly fee costs)..
pps, ppl who are not at least 83+ by the time GoD comes out shouldn't worry about it at all as they will take years before getting in range of 85..
They don't have the patience, they don't want to experiment, they don't opt in anything except optimal and already fine tuned parties.
Just like anyone who had played this game for some time, no matter class.
That hides a moral danger which has already materialized at NA/EU region. That's the mentality of BD / SWS that forget to Dance / Sing
These are BD/SWS that are maybe left for you, cause parties you talk about (and claim that no support accept anything below such party) wouldn't accept such thing.
(have you seen a DD forget to hit?)
Sadly I've seen.
That leaves a lot of ppl playing solo because they can't make a decent full party.
And you think, those who are atm 85 in const parties of other 85 people will join suddenly some random party, because of this change?
Try to find a BD / SWS / OL on Naia shouting on major cities ...
GL :)
I tell you a story :) Recently our BD got booted from our little party for, well... not dancing. Fortunately few days after this incident, my old friend, that quitted game around 2 years ago, msned me and said he want to see how is in hi-5. So i asked him what chars he has, and turned out one of them is BD 79. Rest of story you can figure, enough to say next day he was 80 :) And the BD that is left for you is indeed the one that is not dancing.
If you didn't realize by now, that L2 NA/EU was never about getting people from shouts, too bad for you.
1) Join a const if you are lucky and find spot free in a timeframe that suits you (and then play lineage like it's a second job)
2) Wait for hours just in case a party is formed or you see a shout for your class (most of the times replacing a const member that had not appeared)
That's not a healthy gaming environment. All classes should be able to have parties with equal chance. OFC that change bothers some ppl that were used to the mentality "I am the only one and irreplaceable", "I am pro", "You can't do nothing without me" I am sure that all of us have seen that kind of attitude specially on "enchanter" classes.
And why you think it is different for support classes? Doesn't a support char need other support chars? If you are BD don't you need to look for SWS, same as if you are DD?
For people with mentality like yours, I have one advice: reroll support char and see by yourself how it is. You don't want to play L2 "like it's a second job"? Well, better be prepared for this, if you want to play as support. DD can easly be replaced (Though it's not always true. Depends on clan.). Support not so much, so parties look only for reliable supports. And if you play in const, you know, you *need* to be there, because without you, well, they won't do much.
I am not saying that all "enchanters" are like that, or that there won't be some annoyances for some friends used to play a specific way all together in 9 ppl parties.
What you call "some annoyances" is major issue for most of l2 community. If I will be forced by NC to quit my party and look for new one, I will rather quit game. So no, you will not get one more healer eager to respond to your shouts in Aden.
What I am saying is that except them there is also a general population that has many problems to form a decent party due to lack of specific classes.
Then reroll one. I was playing archer. Rerolled to cardi. It was smart move. Since when it's my fault, that certain group of L2 players, for unknown reasons refuse to play support classes?
i would like to know how to get and OE the "whinning on boards" skill, because it's a very amazing one :
- GOD is not up even on PTS in Korea
- GOD will see changes from asia to US/Eu (and so)
- Patch Notes is not yet 100% official (as always it will be when GOD will be LIVE)...
and pple started to cry for days from now ...
amazing ...
Yes GOD will be a great improvement and yes GOD would give to tons of us a lot of thinking about how we will be able to mix all we already are and what we will be ...
stop whinning and start thinking to adapt....
we are all **** Sapiens (yes orcs are too !!!!)....
I really think adding the Bard class for SWS/BD is a verry good idea.
I think EE and SE really needed the improvement to full worthy healer, but in how much will that affect Cardinals ?
How will the new summons work, seperate corntoll or 3 summons controller by combo skills ?
Will craft be totally abandonned or is there still hope for crafters to be able to craft the top gear one day ?This would really kill the active market if items remain drop only and blow up prices sky high.
(wich will result in more botters-farmers and ebayers)
Is it true that the new class is a simple add on to the existing class ?
If yes what happens wiht "old skills", only way to improve those is to Oe them for now , will the enchanting be pulled over to + 30 and more ?
In GoD there will have an NPC that will sell item for you, you register what you want sell and go do something else ( like in WoW , Aion , and 80% of MMO ).
Actualy lot of player hate place his character in sell mode all the time to get adena, Now you will have juste to : Go register the item and go do other thing.
I love it cause personnaly i make rarly sell cause when i play its to play not to sell ....
And if they use realy some idea from Aion / WoW then laterly they will put some skill ( only one race will can learn with the time but will be similary ).
GOD is the 1st step of a big change and there is will have other up date after.
Has i saw there is will be " Unique weapon " i guess weapon will have more state bonus ( like if a LS is on but it will be a normal part of the weapon) , if am right there' s will add differance between player but for me " unique weapon " mean that the weapon will have differance with other and it will make the differance between price.
so we must wait to know the totaly.
They wont merge 35 class in 8 if they dont plan to add item to make differance .
I really think adding the Bard class for SWS/BD is a verry good idea.
Did you ask any BD/SWS/WC/OL/PP about his opinion?
I think EE and SE really needed the improvement to full worthy healer, but in how much will that affect Cardinals ?
What's wrong with EE and SE now and why are they not full worthy?
If yes what happens wiht "old skills", only way to improve those is to Oe them for now , will the enchanting be pulled over to + 30 and more ?
They will be changed into new 86+ skills and OE cost will be refunded.
Did you ask any BD/SWS/WC/OL/PP about his opinion?
it can't be any worse then the whole enchanter nonsense and yes I belong in the BD/SWS category.. Eagle as well..
They will be changed into new 86+ skills and OE cost will be refunded.
refund lmao, want to bet this is going to be not even close to what it actually cost the players with regards to effort & time investment to get their skills to high OE's ?
Actually I dare NC Soft to hold a poll on this for only players that have an enchanter class account active to see how their actual paying customers that will be impacted here think about the upcoming changes.. to many people posting here who are not playing Enchanter class saying that GoD is awesome..
it can't be any worse then the whole enchanter nonsense and yes I belong in the BD/SWS category.. Eagle as well..
refund lmao, want to bet this is going to be not even close to what it actually cost the players with regards to effort & time investment to get their skills to high OE's ?
Actually I dare NC Soft to hold a poll on this for only players that have an enchanter class account active to see how their actual paying customers that will be impacted here think about the upcoming changes.. to many people posting here who are not playing Enchanter class saying that GoD is awesome..
If you want to still use your 2nd/3rd job skills u can. Just dont pick those new skills if that is a problem for you.
I play 85 bd and 84 sws that will be 85 by the time a PTS comes out,and i'm looking forward to the update. I cant fathom why some people seem to hate the update without looking at what they are getting. no one is gonna force you to take the new skills. if you want to sing and dance every two minutes, you can continue to do that. if I can trade in 1 or more dances to get a 30 minute buff that does the same thing or better, why wouldnt I do so? If I have an enchanted skill that is better than the GoD skills, I will keep it. nothing complicated about it.
The only thing i would agree with is that enchantment refund will probably not be on par with what a person paid to successufully enchant skills. Thats a choice a person makes depending on how much they wanted to spend and how lucky they are.
have you seen how the new dancing/singing looks like ? well for me it's not just that I don't like what will happen to some of my skills as such but the fact that most of my friends I play closely with are also in the "enchanter class" category which is going to be problematic.. add in the fact we can't continue as things were due to the lowered party cap.. so yeah..
I play 85 bd and 84 sws that will be 85 by the time a PTS comes out,and i'm looking forward to the update. I cant fathom why some people seem to hate the update without looking at what they are getting. no one is gonna force you to take the new skills. if you want to sing and dance every two minutes, you can continue to do that. if I can trade in 1 or more dances to get a 30 minute buff that does the same thing or better, why wouldnt I do so? If I have an enchanted skill that is better than the GoD skills, I will keep it. nothing complicated about it.
The only thing i would agree with is that enchantment refund will probably not be on par with what a person paid to successufully enchant skills. Thats a choice a person makes depending on how much they wanted to spend and how lucky they are.
It think the issue isn't the upgrades people are getting, it's more about the fact that enchanters will come from 5 completely different class, when we currently have up to 3-4 of those classes in a single party. GoD will effectively be kicking 2-3 of those enchaters from constants/parties because they're not needed anymore.
BUT, I think people are overreacting... I still think there will be unique skills that remain from 2nd-3rd class, it might not be as strong as awakening skills, but if you look at it, some song/dances aren't actually that strong (12% patk from dance of warrior), but it's still an important dance
Just like anyone who had played this game for some time, no matter class.
The opposite exists also. People who played that game for long (no vitality, no adventurer buffs, no herbs, etc) and were forced to solo / grind for so long do have patience.
These are BD/SWS that are maybe left for you, cause parties you talk about (and claim that no support accept anything below such party) wouldn't accept such thing.
/agree. The problem is that even the ones that forget to sing / dance are not enough. Doesn't that show something ?
And you think, those who are atm 85 in const parties of other 85 people will join suddenly some random party, because of this change?
GL :)
And you think that those who are atm 85 in const parties will choose to do nothing at all or QQ ? I think that they may organize new parties or even join some party when they do nothing at town.
I tell you a story :) Recently our BD got booted from our little party for, well... not dancing. Fortunately few days after this incident, my old friend, that quitted game around 2 years ago, msned me and said he want to see how is in hi-5. So i asked him what chars he has, and turned out one of them is BD 79. Rest of story you can figure, enough to say next day he was 80 :) And the BD that is left for you is indeed the one that is not dancing.
You are contradicting yourself here and prove me right. The example you are giving proves that there is something wrong with the mentality of some classes. Even your "good" const BD got sloppy / lazy, I guess he would no do that if he had another, not so much "needed" class.
If you didn't realize by now, that L2 NA/EU was never about getting people from shouts, too bad for you.
And why you think it is different for support classes? Doesn't a support char need other support chars? If you are BD don't you need to look for SWS, same as if you are DD?
I have realized it long ago. And that's the real problem. L2 was never intended to be played like that. Bad NCSOFT moves and western mentality drove it that way. See how Korean play. Remember how we played some years ago ? We really did "random" RB parties by just shouting for SE + Nukers. I think that I preffer that kind of game experience ... That does not take away anything from ppl that preffer L2 as a second job or like const. It just gives some happiness / content / experience to new or casual players.. Dont forget that it's a game :)
For people with mentality like yours, I have one advice: reroll support char and see by yourself how it is. You don't want to play L2 "like it's a second job"? Well, better be prepared for this, if you want to play as support. DD can easly be replaced (Though it's not always true. Depends on clan.). Support not so much, so parties look only for reliable supports. And if you play in const, you know, you *need* to be there, because without you, well, they won't do much.
For people with mentality like yours, I have one advice: Try to see a problem in a general context, see how other games work, see how the situation is now, how the situation was before, try to be positive, try to find solutions, see a problem by all aspects / different angles. Rerolling to a "good" or rare class every 2 years is not a solution to problems created by flawed game mechanics or mentality. As you said all will need you all the time if you have a rare / needed class. On the other hand if you have a class that is not rare you have issues finding parties. You see the problem here for the new / average player ? He gets either a const / second job or no party at all. I say again, maybe thats not an issue for lots of people, but its a problem for some and its a problem in game mechanics / balancing classes in general. All classes should (in theory) have equal chances to get parties, all should be needed / irreplaceable in their unique way.
What you call "some annoyances" is major issue for most of l2 community. If I will be forced by NC to quit my party and look for new one, I will rather quit game. So no, you will not get one more healer eager to respond to your shouts in Aden.
I see people QQ since C4 with every update. Furious and angry about all changes. I see a game that in all aspects (except one) is much better than C4. The only aspect that's worse, is the issue with balancing classes / parties. I guess that they try to fix that now. Maybe it's to late to be fixed without causing lots of QQ but I will wait and see.
Then reroll one. I was playing archer. Rerolled to cardi. It was smart move. Since when it's my fault, that certain group of L2 players, for unknown reasons refuse to play support classes?
See b4 about rerolling. it's not a solution to flawed game mechanics or bad management decisions. It's a game, anyone "should" be able to play a class that he likes and be needed, not forced to play a most needed class or solo.
BTW i really don't care about an arrogant Level 82 (in 3 months) SWS that QQ because he is not so needed like before. What i do care about is some poor PP or dwarf or ... that played for so long even though nerfed so many times in the past.
Our party, we playing ~2 years together, will get 4 enchanters in GoD update. What for? Why? Why 3 players have to 'rerol' / leave / search another party? Is it ROLE PLAYING TEAM PLAY GAME supposed to be??
Problem is La2 turning into casual-aion-style-random-party-matching-instance-farming-social-dancing... thing... RIP teamplay
It think the issue isn't the upgrades people are getting,
So, do you think that restricting a, say, Dominator to an "enchanter" class is "upgrades"?
BUT, I think people are overreacting... I still think there will be unique skills that remain from 2nd-3rd class,
And how well will those debuffs land on lvl 99 people? :rolleyes:
The opposite exists also. People who played that game for long (no vitality, no adventurer buffs, no herbs, etc) and were forced to solo / grind for so long do have patience.
Personally I have a lot of patience, but only for people, who think like me. I don't want to waste my time on irregular/not dependable people. I have patience for building something together, not for waiting for random party.
/agree. The problem is that even the ones that forget to sing / dance are not enough. Doesn't that show something ?
It shows, that not enough people want to play support classes. And this will not change., cause it's true in every MMO. Healers in WOW and tanks in Aion have same situation - there's not enough of them.
And you think that those who are atm 85 in const parties will choose to do nothing at all or QQ ? I think that they may organize new parties or even join some party when they do nothing at town.
Some will quit if they cannot play with people they want. Many will reroll to be able to play with their friends.
Even your "good" const BD got sloppy / lazy, I guess he would no do that if he had another, not so much "needed" class.
He wasn't good, but we realized this too late. And it's more matter of a player than a class. Personally the majority of really dedicated players I met are supportes, my ingame experience is completely opposite to what you say. And tbh it has a reason. Everyone picks his class with something in mind. What's the mindset of someone who picks "killer" and what's the mindset of someone, who picks class that "only buffs"? And which mindset is better suited for l2?
See how Korean play.
From what Destructor said I see - they make perfect groups same as we do. Only difference is that their players are not selfish noobs and play more support classes, so there is always some bd or sws lfg.
Remember how we played some years ago ? We really did "random" RB parties by just shouting for SE + Nukers.
Now you can't do it cause of majority of people left in L2 are not casuals. You will not find SE on the streets, but also you will not find nukers on the streets. It's a problem of low population in general. And TBH even since lvl 20 I almost never did parties with people outside clan, as I quickly figured that in most cases it's a waste of time.
Dont forget that it's a game :)
Trust me I don't. But what I loved in this game from beginning, is that it sorts strong from weak. You want easy mode? Go play WOW.
Rerolling to a "good" or rare class every 2 years is not a solution to problems created by flawed game mechanics or mentality.
The only flawed mentality I see here is "I don't have means to level and earn adena, but I still make DD in a game that relies on support".
It's player community fault, that there are too few support classes, and I'm against dumbing down the game only to accomodate to lowest common denominator.
As you said all will need you all the time if you have a rare / needed class.
And I enjoy it.
On the other hand if you have a class that is not rare you have issues finding parties. You see the problem here for the new / average player ? He gets either a const / second job or no party at all.
No constant party. When I was in KJ, I had plenty random parties, but I'm not into random parties. If you like such playstyle, find a clan that suits you.
All classes should (in theory) have equal chances to get parties, all should be needed / irreplaceable in their unique way.
And they are. Now every class has it's place in party and cannot be replaced by any other class. You can't replace cardi with ee and cant replace ee with cardi. You cant replace sws with bd and can't replace bd with sws. You can't replace arbalester with hawkeye and you can't replace hawkeye with arbalester. You cant replace tank with dagger and vice versa. Everyone has his place in party and everyone is equally needed.
Now you want to destroy this beautiful system and dumb it down so everyone can take a group of random people and go happy hunting, only because some classes are less played than others. As it is now party setup is by average 55% support and 45% DD. So the simplest fix to your problem is, that half of the community decide to play supporters. If majority wants to play DD, that's not game issue, but community issue.
See b4 about rerolling. it's not a solution to flawed game mechanics or bad management decisions.
Rerolling was solution to archer class beeing temporarily killed by NCSoft. Are you sure, that this will not happen in 8-class system? Summoners already wonder if there will be a place for them in a new system.
It's a game, anyone "should" be able to play a class that he likes and be needed, not forced to play a most needed class or solo.
Ok let's imagine there are 3000 players on the server and 2999 of them made a treasure hunter. Now in such situation you think that Ncsoft should accomodate to this and in next update ballance the game towards party of 9 treasure hunters, so everyone can play the class he wants?
Picking a class is major decision in MMO, and many people fail MMO games before they leave character creation screen. Sad but true.
BTW i really don't care about an arrogant Level 82 (in 3 months) SWS that QQ because he is not so needed like before. What i do care about is some poor PP or dwarf or ... that played for so long even though nerfed so many times in the past.
I don't care about arrogant sws either, as much as I don' care about arrogant people at all. Also I don't care about PPs and dwarves that make victims of themselves.
I know many dwarves that are happy (especially now, since new skills and locations worth taking a spoiler with you) and I even knew one BD that rerolled to PP, because he liked this char. And he had place in my party no matter on BD or on PP, go figure.
If you're not happy with your char, I repeat simple solution: reroll. Don't ask to make game dumber.
Anyway this long post is kinda useless, cause tbh my major issue is reducing party to 7 people, not reducing classes. Of course if they destroy cooperation between cardi and ee/se as it is now, my gameplay will be less fun, but I can live with it. Reducing amount of people in party is a major game breaker for me.
tbh my major issue is reducing party to 7 people, not reducing classes. Of course if they destroy cooperation between cardi and ee/se as it is now, my gameplay will be less fun, but I can live with it. Reducing amount of people in party is a major game breaker for me.
Seriously THAT is the point that's closest to make me quit.
In my ally we so very often would want 10 man party (no box there) so dropping to 7 is the single WORST decision and just casually wipes something that was a fact from day 1
i picked OL because its rare and you cant sub it... they are taking it away lol
i stuck with it- like the guy above me said- even though it is impossible to get groups because OLs dont really bring anything essential to the table. i have left the game a couple times because i couldnt take soloing any longer; thats not why i play these games.
on a side note... i was considering subbing SWS... are they getting rid of subs? or will i be an enchanter subbed enchanter? lol
i think some combining of classes would be good, but they have gone too far. the reason so many support classes are needed and played right now is because each one offers something the others dont (except OL really lol)
if they combine them... pfft. no longer will a party need a wc, bd, sws. one char will be able to do everything that all of these classes can do?? furr reelz?
Mr. Han Jae Hyuk answered some of my questions, tnx to Moxie. But it is looks like our petition stays totally unseen.
Namiko: Did you consider that be reducing all classes to 8 that there are currently 3-4 different enchanters in a party, where should the other 2-3 go?
Han Jae Hyuk: The new Iss Enchanters will get most of the buffer abilities that would have been in the additional two or three that were in a group before. The players can select freely from the eight classes after the fourth transfer to build a strong group.
Desert_Eagle: Are there any concerns from Korea or other territories regarding the number of Enchanters that will exist after GD? Any plans to address this if necessary?
HJH: We are aware that at first blush it looks like there will be a lot of Iss Enchanters in the character base when you match them with the current classes. However, we believe that many of those characters will not be played after Goddess of Destruction is released because many of those characters are used on secondary accounts as buffers. We believe that these buffers will not be necessary in a party and will no longer be played. Additionally, characters will have the opportunity to change class before the Awakening so that they can pass through their fourth transfer to the class of their choice. We'll share more information about this as we get closer to launch.
Desert_Eagle: Is it possible to bring a new character class into game - Bards, while increasing 7 players party size up to 8 players? Don't you think merging 6 classes into 1 will harm role playing part of game? Bard class can solve potential problems with Enchanter class become 350% more overpopulated.
HJH: We are balancing the eight classes we've announced. We have no plans to add more classes at this time.
So, as I can see, Mr. Han Jae Hyuk recommend us to 'reroll for free' using quest item. Also he think most of future Isa Enchanters from graphs I've build here - just boxed chars. Very interesting point of view as for development team leader of role playing game I'm afraid I can't agree.
There are some questions (only questions actually...) left.
- If we are suggested to reroll, who and how will compensate new weapons, new armors, another epics?
- If we aren't reroll and keep playing Ica Enchanters ... who and how will compensate new weapons, new armors, another epics? All skills will work only with dual blunts or duals. There are SO many of them - buffs, de-buffs, damage, control - heavy sets we have now will be low on mp, for sure!
Bards were fighter classes, Orcs were mage classes, so
- HOW you can combine them into one?? Will it be either fighter or mage?
- What nature of buffs will be - physical or magical? What will influence cast speed? Phys stats or Mag stats?
- What nature of de-buffs will be - physical or magical? What will influence cast speed and LAND RATE, and RESIST RATE? Phys stats or Mag stats? Both combined? Which way?
- How about *low* m.atck of dual weapons? *Low* mp for heave sets?
- How about epic jewelry to use? We need change it also??
Questions, only questions and no answers...
I have an answer to myself anyway. I will not play Isa Enchanter. As support class I used to play - heavy armor, one handed weapon+shield, aggression skill, minimum epic jewellery build - I will be forced by NCsoft to reroll to tank, or leave this game mb. So, RIP bards :<
Problem is there is no official info yet about Enchanter will be Fighter or Mage. I saw screens awaken Enchanter with fighter stats str high, int low. This AndreasK from forum you linked above speaking about Enchanter as mage... Totally mess!
Anyway all his magical skills based on m.atck and castspeed and INT - will be totally waste cuz are binded to physical weapons.