hello guys.i wanted to ask something about enchanters.for each enchanter what skills is worth to keep from old skills(and not replace it with new one)also does song of warding stack with the new iss buffs?(sonatas etc).how do you find the difference between the elf and e elf dmg(10 str is really that huge?)
i cant understand why ppl care so much about str on buffer? yes its buffer class, not DD :O
From my experience so far as enchanter its not a big deal (that STR diff), what U do in pt? U keep it buffed all the time, U use debuffs, hmm thats it? Oh healer dead, yes U can ress him, and yes U should :P things going nasty U can help a little with your heal as well, but STR nope i dont think its so important.
In this case I would ask "omg Orc has 87con DElf only 77, why so nerfed?" ...
nope also not a big difference ;)
also:
STR - p.atk, p.crit.dmg
vs
CON - max HP, HP regen, weight, breath, shield def. success rate, resistance to physical abnormal state
in general its not old l2 anymore, so +str doesnt make a big deal, at least seems so. Earlier when human warrior had str 40 and U gave him +5 dyes ye that made the difference to that char and its stats, now its not the same anymore, or that difference is not so noticeable.
ofc all above is only from my experience so far as enchanter, and i also tested some stats mods via dyes, hats etc.
well ok its a buffer.main role in a PARTY is to buff and help a bit.but there is the solo pve and solo pvp factor aswell.i dont think enchanters do that little dmg in comparison with others(dds) i know with same buffs ill never catch them in dmg but as far as i understand and told enchanter role has changed and while pre-awaken enchanters wasnt a threat(for their dmg)now i think they can deal some of it.when we solo pvp or pve others may have more p attack higher power skills but we have -40%p and m def on target so close a bit of the gap.and at least ye have more dmg than tanks lol:D
you havent answered on the other answer though.does song of warding stack up with other iss buffs?(and i know i have to give wizard harmony for it)
at solo pve U rock ^^ swamps 3 skills max mob/s dead, ofc take those close to your lvl, dont forget U have all buffs (U buffed yourself right? :D)
latter U need pt to exp anyway, in party leave killing to DD's dont let them leech and do their job! ;) just care about not dying to often (trains in soa for example, where U stick to tank and debuff trains)
your second question no wiz harmony no soa parties? just as exmaple :)
Also bishops would love that buff as well:
Increases the P. Atk.+8%, M. Atk. +40%, Atk. Spd. and Casting Spd.+8%, M. Def.+14%, M. Critical Rate+100%, MP recovery bonus+20%, and Spd.+8 of a party member for 30 minutes, while reducing P. Def. -8%, Evasion-4, MP cost for magic skills -15%, MP cost for physical skills -5% and reuse time for skills -20%.giving all that just for warding? and im not sure about stacking part since awakened from PP, and rly didnt test that.
OK personally on my own enchanter, yes I do often miss losing my 3 rhythms for wizards harmony but when I was looking at my options, my constant party is a summoner and 3 wizards so it made sense to give them more bang for their buck when I buff them. Especially during pvp clashes, extra umph for my wizard friends makes enemies go pop :p
your second question no wiz harmony no soa parties? just as exmaple :)
Also bishops would love that buff as well:
giving all that just for warding? and im not sure about stacking part since awakened from PP, and rly didnt test that.
Anyone serious about playing live for pvp would be an idiot to take wiz harmony imo.
Don't forget you've got Knights harmony:
(Increases the P. Atk.+12%, P. Def.+45%, Shield Defense Rate +30%, Shield P. Def.+50%, P. Critical Damage +35%, and P. Critical Rate +100% of a party member for 30 minutes) Which stacks with +100% Mcrit, +20% m.atk, +20% m.def, -skill use delay, -skill mp cost etc that comes from The lost Dances Magic and Start.
Do you really want to lose out on 53% p.def (wiz is -8%) and 6% m.def + shield def buffs for 20% m.atk, 8% cast speed and 8% run speed? Dances probably a better setup for all classes.
And they do stack, I did it myself with my own enchanter, but ended up taking Wiz in the end as she's a box not a pvp toon.
so in general U R saying he shouldnt take wizard harmony so he can keep some songs from his swm?
Unless you're 100% certain you never ever want to pvp and only want to pve with a cookie cutter nuker grp then DO NOT take wizards harmony. The dances it replaces and Knights Harmony stacked make a much better combo. I think they work with warrior too.
Wiz is nice on a box though.
Just to add, the diff is 17>15k m.atk, 1500>1400 cast but 1700>2800 p.def and 2100>2900 m.def or there abouts. All non mages gain m.def, skill re-use and so on.
Unless you're 100% certain you never ever want to pvp and only want to pve with a cookie cutter nuker grp then DO NOT take wizards harmony. The dances it replaces and Knights Harmony stacked make a much better combo. I think they work with warrior too.
Wiz is nice on a box though.
Just to add, the diff is 17>15k m.atk, 1500>1400 cast but 1700>2800 p.def and 2100>2900 m.def or there abouts. All non mages gain m.def, skill re-use and so on.
I wouldn't save never pvp as how in magmeld at least most enchanters are orc and don't have rhythms. I'd think of having rhythms as having a edge in pvp. (personally did dump my rhythms because i train primarily and my nuker friends love wiz harm for any pvp we encounter)
Unless you're 100% certain you never ever want to pvp and only want to pve with a cookie cutter nuker grp then DO NOT take wizards harmony. The dances it replaces and Knights Harmony stacked make a much better combo. I think they work with warrior too.
Wiz is nice on a box though.
Just to add, the diff is 17>15k m.atk, 1500>1400 cast but 1700>2800 p.def and 2100>2900 m.def or there abouts. All non mages gain m.def, skill re-use and so on.
so now what i will do since i awake from pp? pve more pve, coz no1 would want such enchanter at pvp :confused:
T.T going back to my cave,or just will stand with Tersi summoned at TI 24/7. orr wts my char nice pve box :eek:
so now what i will do since i awake from pp? pve more pve, coz no1 would want such enchanter at pvp :confused:
T.T going back to my cave,or just will stand with Tersi summoned at TI 24/7. orr wts my char nice pve box :eek:
I only said for people who awake from BD/SWS. I didn't make the game, fact is that dances are optimal for pvp so if you're a main BD/SWS then that's the pvp choice on awakening. I'd imagine top clans would turn away enchanters without these if they're serious about pvp.
The downside to keeping the rhythms is unless your in a clan that constantly does clan parties, your going to get a lot of crap for not taking wizard harmony with a public group. I've been rejected plenty of times in harnak and teredor parties just because I chose to keep the rhythms over wizard harmony(mostly wizard pl and 1 healer).
The downside to keeping the rhythms is unless your in a clan that constantly does clan parties, your going to get a lot of crap for not taking wizard harmony with a public group. I've been rejected plenty of times in harnak and teredor parties just because I chose to keep the rhythms over wizard harmony(mostly wizard pl and 1 healer).
This. How ever I've manage to somewhat solve issue by having a boxed enchanter with wizards and workin on a live enchanter without. (although I did manage to stack warriors with just 20% matk dance so I assume you can stack warriors with magic dark for I think 36% matk instead of full 40)
Just goin to enchant wizards to last one hour and it'll be fine in most cases
You guys are actually missing something regarding Wizard's Harmony. It does not stack with Rhythm of Start, Magic (Warding) and a couple others. Some fighter classes that can take advantage of Rhythm of Start's skill reuse wont be able to get it, since wizard's harmony does not stack with knight or warrior's harmony, but you CAN have Rhythm of Start+Rhythm of Magic+Warrior's Harmony, which means more m def, skill reuse and mp regen.
Only thing im not sure is, Ive seen some skills like deadly strike not being affected at all by Start. But in theory, most fighters like Tyr or Othell would benefit from having Rhythm of Start.
And the ones saying STR is useless, think again, most Enchanter skills like Shadow Blade and Crippling Attack can skill crit, so youre not only a buffer, whoever says that is not playing his enchanter like he should.
Increases the P. Atk.+8%, M. Atk. +40%, Atk. Spd. and Casting Spd.+8%, M. Def.+14%, M. Critical Rate+100%, MP recovery bonus+20%, and Spd.+8 of a party member for 30 minutes, while reducing P. Def. -8%, Evasion-4, MP cost for magic skills -15%, MP cost for physical skills -5% and reuse time for skills -20%.
When you look at 3 rhythms
Magic Dark at 52
Increases all party members' M. Atk. by 20% and M. Def. by 30% for 2 minutes.
Magic Dark from 55
decreases all party members' magic cancel damage by 40, MP Consumption for magic skills by 10%, and increases Casting Spd. by 30% and MP recovery bonus by 20%
Start dark at 80
decreases all party members' damage attack magic's Critical Rate by 100%, physical/magic/song/dance skills' MP Consumption by 5%, and physical/magic skills' re-use time by 20% (I think this actually gives the 100% magic crit rate)
Is it just me or does rhythms have party magic def and more cast speed for 20% lower magic attack in which case I have stacked warriors harmony with magic dark to have +36% matk.... so 4% difference
EDIT:Never mind Just tested that the one magic dark doesn't stack but is replaced by a 5 minute sonata
(...)
And the ones saying STR is useless, think again, most Enchanter skills like Shadow Blade and Crippling Attack can skill crit, so youre not only a buffer, whoever says that is not playing his enchanter like he should.
question here was if that basic STR diff between lelf and delf is such a big deal,not STR in general :)
but considering all posts here, any new enchanter should run with delf male/female BD at start ;)
Alright so here is something else I've noticed. As I have a boxed enchanter with all 3 harmonies etc. On my new bd I can stack knights harmony with defence motion to have an extra 25% p-def and 11% m-def.
If and I do have a boxed enchanter with knights would anyone suggest not losing defence motion?
EDIT:Never mind I'm a idiot, you lose defense motion for horn melody... but I'd be leveling the live enchanter to get level 2 horn etc
Str is the way to go on an enchanter if you plan to do pvp and it also helps in pve. It's debatable if you should go +15 str or just +10 and then save the last slot for either int/wit/men.
As for the dances, yea it's a good idea to keep them and skip wizard's harmony. I didn't read up enough on it before awakening and regret not having them now, but it's not like it kills it even in top clan pvp. More than anything it's an advantage in Oly.
I did a test of the difference between harmony and dances. Ignore the m.def please, it's an alt. Gear is nothing special, just vesper robes and an immo heavy BP. Also I forgot to do start, but that won't change any stats apart from m.crit.
Anyone serious about playing live for pvp would be an idiot to take wiz harmony imo.
Don't forget you've got Knights harmony:
(Increases the P. Atk.+12%, P. Def.+45%, Shield Defense Rate +30%, Shield P. Def.+50%, P. Critical Damage +35%, and P. Critical Rate +100% of a party member for 30 minutes) Which stacks with +100% Mcrit, +20% m.atk, +20% m.def, -skill use delay, -skill mp cost etc that comes from The lost Dances Magic and Start.
Do you really want to lose out on 53% p.def (wiz is -8%) and 6% m.def + shield def buffs for 20% m.atk, 8% cast speed and 8% run speed? Dances probably a better setup for all classes.
And they do stack, I did it myself with my own enchanter, but ended up taking Wiz in the end as she's a box not a pvp toon.
Exactly and you can also give Warriors Harmony in some cases for pve which also adds casting and m attack.
Now there are 1st class Enchanters BD/SWS that didn't take Wizards Harmony and 2nd class Enchanters (boxes for wizards I would say).
I did a test of the difference between harmony and dances. Ignore the m.def please, it's an alt. Gear is nothing special, just vesper robes and an immo heavy BP. Also I forgot to do start, but that won't change any stats apart from m.crit.
Try the test with Warriors harmony instead of knights harmony (for pve ofc).
I did it with warrior when I was testing using my summoner, m.def was:
Warrior + Rhythm = 2350
Warrior no Rhythm = 1907
Knights + Rhythm = 2716
Knights no Rhythm = 2188
Wizard's Harmony = 2434
So even in PvE you're losing out on 400+ m.def with just warrior alone. With knights and no rhythms it was 800 m.def difference compared to warrior alone. This is with Daring Sonata too btw, which is - m.def.
I did it with warrior when I was testing using my summoner, m.def was:
Warrior + Rhythm = 2350
Warrior no Rhythm = 1907
Knights + Rhythm = 2716
Knights no Rhythm = 2188
Wizard's Harmony = 2434
So even in PvE you're losing out on 400+ m.def with just warrior alone. With knights and no rhythms it was 800 m.def difference compared to warrior alone. This is with Daring Sonata too btw, which is - m.def.
I was actually more concerned about the M.atk since all mages will cry for wizards lol
I was actually more concerned about the M.atk since all mages will cry for wizards lol
Warrior Harmony is only +16% m.atk (+36% stacked with rhythm), but -16% m.def rather than +m.def like wizards. Basically it'll be the same as wizards bar 4% m.atk. I was confused why you wanted to know at first, but I guess it makes sense for PvE, so yeah, warriors + Rhythm should be pretty much the same as Wizards.
P.S. Can't log in my SWS atm to check exact stats. </3 terrible game management.
y0 zestos well from what I've heard enchanters cast speed is almost instantaneously regardless of weapon & armor and most ppl go with heavy for higher survivability..
if your a sws/bd do not learn the new hvy mastery as that's actually worse then the old one, you being a lol ol can just learn it fine though :P
healers will be perfectly fine in vorpal robes all the way to 95+
ps, low R grade gear will be very easy to get so don't buy it overpriced the first 2 weeks as it will be even more common then the old common gear :P
Reason I mention it is that I remember this thread. However when I made my first enchanter I simply took all skills under impression that new skills would all be an improvement. (Thinking about how currently healers have light armor passive regardless of it being patched god knows how many months down the road)
While of course some people will notice small difference, hopefully bd/sws enchanters will have a constant party or a clan that understands benefits to cons. Being picky as I am, I actually have 2 enchanters now one with wizards and other without which works fine for most cases.
While of course some people will notice small difference, hopefully bd/sws enchanters will have a constant party or a clan that understands benefits to cons. Being picky as I am, I actually have 2 enchanters now one with wizards and other without which works fine for most cases.
I was thinking of making 2 also, just a shame my BD already has wiz harmony as I'd rather play Dark Elf as live enchanter than my Light Elf SWS. :(
It's pretty easy to make 2 with a boxed iss being able to buff every 5 minute sonatas etc, taken me a week of casual playing to hit 78 (4-6 hours a day) on just mentor buff alone no nevits. Of course I could have spent that time to make any other class to 85, but I do prefer playing as a live enchanter over other classes.
It's pretty easy to make 2 with a boxed iss being able to buff every 5 minute sonatas etc, taken me a week of casual playing to hit 78 (4-6 hours a day) on just mentor buff alone no nevits. Of course I could have spent that time to make any other class to 85, but I do prefer playing as a live enchanter over other classes.
My SWS is 80 already so shouldn't be a problem, I've got a lvl 72 one also. :D
I just kinda wished I'd of kept the Rythms on my BD since I like the toon in looks/name more than others to play live, she's one of my older toons and one I've used a ton, so I'm more attached to her than my sws. :p
i just have to say that i feel sad of reading all this info after i become iss..
as a bd i love the dances.. but the wizards harmony looks really good in first see..
i dont pvp to much so i dont mind take the 30 mins harmony and pve with no worries..
the dances making counts will be really nice if well played, a bit tricky because a bd/sws iss enchanter needs to be extra care if he is in a mixed party.. but in the end i believe that the ones that dont take wizards harmony will be really happy because they still have a choise to take that in the future..