Bring back character uniqueness and player enthusiasm for their character
Balance the classes
Balance the appeal of all classes to group play
Option 1 Summary, Pros and Cons
Add race-specific traits to the Awakening classes
Pro:
Diversity without making big changes to the current Awakening structure
Cons:
Less smooth connection with the 3rd class transfer structure
Forced diversification with no choices present if already Awakened
Classes and Dual Classes that Awakened with the Stone of Destiny cannot change
Option 2 Summary, Pros and Cons
Customize your Awakening class with some 3rd class skills from its 3rd class counterparts.
Pros:
Player gets to choose what unique traits they would like for their characters
Cons:
Less smooth connection with the 3rd class transfer structure
Imbalance could occur if a majority of players choose a select few skills
Option 3 Summary, Pros and Cons
Divide the 8 current Awakening classes back into 34 classes
Pros:
Strengthen connection with the 3rd class transfer structure
Can choose classes even after Awakening
Minimize confusion in battles after Awakening, and highlight clear differences between classes with their uniqueness
Issues such as certain classes’ time spent on grouping are not really prominent
Cons:
The 8 current Awakened classes and the 34 (tentative) future classes could coexist for some time
Some classes may end up losing some skills (An Othell Rogue may gain a 3rd transfer class’ skill and lose Plunder due to the Fortune Seeker.)
Please remember to only post replies that are your personal feedback about the topic and question at hand. This thread is not the place for inter-player back-and-forth discussions, comments on another person's opinion, or discussion and comments about other topics. If your post is not a direct response to the poll question, don't be surprised if it is removed.
As far as i see, if classes are going to have individual specs back to 34 different classes then the 8 hero system will not work. there will be a problem with classes who will be strong in open pvp and weak in class based olympiad. This will then specifically rule out some classes for olympiad for competing for hero if they cant win in Class based.
for example. there is a know problem with summoners at the moment for class based olympiad. that is light elfs have their pony buff which gives them magic skill reuse. While this is not a big deal outside of olympiad because sonatas over write this buff in olympiad its over kill. I know this because summoner fights in olympiad are all down to how many times can u throw a mark / exile on someone. Now with m def and defenses are useless in a summoner fight its all down to if u crit ur mark, and how many marks u can cast. With all this info its difficult for a 99 summoner (not light elf) to kill a light elf summoner because of this buff. The light elf can heal more, mark more, exile more and all stats dont matter apart from reuse in casting time. This is a problem that can happen if u split up the classes but dont increase heros .
All the while i DO like the 8 heros in how they are. there is no reason to zerg the server with 34 heros.
With that being said, i think once ALL classes awaken , they should get a choice on the direction their class can go, and not have it set in stone. For example a dark elf can choose the path of the light elf skills after awakening. This will create more a mixture of classes and people wont get stuck in only one option. Lineage 2 has been known for the options they offer and everyone loves that. Also when this is changed all classes awakened already will all get an option to choose which class they can specialize in their own skills.
Since the decision from the Development team as already be taken in Korea, I don't plan to do something "for the records". I will try to add more information and possibly new ideas you may mix or add to the choice of bringing back specialization like the you plan to do.
The main thing I wanted to speak about is the main stat system : INT, STR, DEX, CON, WIT, MEN.
With the Goddess of Destruction Update, you changed the previous value to higher values with, as far as I know, seems not linked to the old one.
Before, the max tatoo modifier you could get was +5 on one stat, and no limitation on the negative aspect (you could do +5 -12 for example). You then can modify your stats with armor set bonuses (the higher would be the Plated Leather Set, +4 STR -1 CON) and after that, you could add the bonus from the former Territory Wars Flag. Stats like +2 INT were a huge boost for the M.Atk for example.
Right now, this system is totally messed up. With the introduction of Legendary dyes, and the no limit you can get on one dye, everyone tend to specialize in one way only (+15 STR nothing else for example). We miss some diversity from that.
The difference between the race's stats seems too small regarding the current system.
Let's take for example the mage class of Elf and Human :
I took here the only relevant stats for a mage. The sum of all this value is almost the same (D.Elf got one less) but the question is more about the balance of the game. Does +3 CON and +5 INT give more advantages that +6 WIT for the Elf ? I am not so sure about it (personal experience here). Where the difference between the effect of such stats was clear before GoD, it's not really clear at all now. It doesn't mean something in fact, I don't really mind about those stats when I create a new character, where I was spending hours before to think about "more critical rate, or more critical damage, or more HP for my dagger ?" before.
I would then suggest to normalize and increase the gap between the old and current values to make races more distinct. Also you may want to increase the casting speed and atk speed rate. I think here about Elf Mage. WIT is supposed to help them casting faster and making more Magic Critical Hit. Where is the advantage when any race can hit 1999 casting speed ?
I chose the first option. Mainly because bringing back 3rd class skills would mean that the devs would probably need to tweak the power of those skills to make them work on Awakened characters.
Even so, the proposed racial skill for ex Shillien Saints still sucks :p . But better that than having the issue of balancing 34 classes once again. We've seen in the past that 34 classes are too many for a thought-out overall balance. Some classes got neglected, other ridiculously overpowered, and back and forth.
And 8 heroes are better than 34 (forgot Iss Judicator? :rolleyes: ), less spam in hero chat.
You have a couple of problems with making more classes. Each of which has be felt by the Lin2 team since day one but because of other, tangential changes to the system of play and history, the choice to back off these diverse paths was reduced.
1) Balance - It seems that within the NcSoft development team, there was no way to achive balance between classes. Of course a large majority of people want to win so the stronger of the classes or the class of the month will be always selected. Until the tools are developed to understand more than 4 types of classes, this will continue to haunt the dev team.
2) The continued reducing of the number in a party and the inablity to make it so each toon has more than one speciality that the party needs. This was played out over and over again. Being an OL during the early days, this was especially painful in trying to get into a party when those skills were not truly needed. Then the size of parties was reduced, which again made it even more difficult for the fringe types to get in and finally when you get to the "perfect party" system of play, then it was just the minimum needed and it took clan parties to keep everyone playing.
3) NcSoft continues to do what Sony did with Star Wars and refuses to learn from them and what they did to a good, solid game. At some point, NcSoft will do the same to this game and we will end up shut down. Get your act together, make a long term investment in the game and make it so these **** dead ends do hurt the players. You all are killing us with a 1000 cuts and don't seem to care.
4) Your balancing of classes has always been suspect. Not only do you tend to allow the un-balancing to go on for far too long but your nerfing instead of adjusting slowly over time leads people to become extremely frustrated with their choices and their loosing to people, even if they are better players. Now with the 2nd dev team for Lin2 in place, you stated it was necessary to to reset us, made up this awakening, and now you are completely lost as to what to do now.
As an aside, re-balancing is to be expected, but to tell us you are rebalancing the wynns looking foward when we find out it is really because of server load issues that were unforseen is a bunch of poo. Tell us what the reality is. You could have even keep it at 3 2 point summons or 2 3 point summons to see if that worked, but no, you totally take the big hammer to us with no reguards to anything and then disrespected us by not even stepping up except thru Sace. Not her job in this case. You could have sent a senior person here to at least talk it out.
Voted for Option 3: Diversify by Dividing the Awakened Classes into 34 Classes
Why that? Because Lineage 2 was always know for the great varieties of classes and paths to be chosen and each class had his owns pros/cons
I know these won't bring back the Pre-GOD game, but for sure will take a new breath to game and bring more players back
So its a 100% success chance? NO! Diversification the current classes in 34 new ones will make the challenge to balance the classes even harder. People will chose a path and won't be sure if It was the right choice
So what you suppose we do to? A beta test would be awesome to let people choose what diversification will fit better his game style. Probably, some diversification will be better for solo PVE, group PVE, solo PVP, group PVP, etc. Everyone will be able to choose what fits best his playing style and the game will get way funnier, with more action on Olympiad that ever and more party possibilities.
I would like to go back to the old classes system, in GoD when it comes to open PVP there are not much difference between being a human, an elf or a dark elf as a healer in terms of healing. Dark elf gain an advantage in the open world beccause of their racial passive that makes them untargetable. However when it comes to olympiads Human class has an advantage over all the other types of racial healer beccause human has a better base stats at the character creation.
However I have chosen to become a human beccause I was a Cardinal back than and people loved when I was using balance heal / body avatar / clan resurection during huge PVP. Same goes for the Prophecy of Water from the light elf who were giving an advantage to the mages in their party and could mana regen other, even I could get mana regen if I had spend too much healing the party.
The old system used to requieres more coordination between the players and used to bring an highter diversity of classes in a party.
This would make open PVP and separate those unfair advantage during olympiads and evryone would have a chance to compete agaisn't another openent that has the same racial / base stats.
There is only one logical and justified option and that is option #3, to bring back the 34 classes.Why? - you may ask? - Because that is where Lineage2 has started off, that's where we came from and that is where we should have gone.
During all these years, we have been enjoying this game and all the classes you could have gone into, which gave us a great choice and fun playing Lineage2 as a game at all.Also it had much better party variance , not just like "Oh hey we`re 6 missing Feoh or Wynn for this party or CP".Before there were Dominators - masters of the mass PVP, there were archers, mages - all different kinds with their own unique skills and abilities.Goddess of Destruction have taken ALL these and melted them in something that isn't even good enough to compare to C1 times (lol what I`m talking about, C1 was FUN!).
There were a drawbacks of all these classes of course, like there were classes that were overpowered for too long, for example the mages and tyrants first, then destros, then berserkers + daggers.But after all, the more choice you have, the better it is.This is one of the really big things that made Lineage2 one of the most succesful MMORPGs ever existed.
By bringing back the 34 classes you`ll actually bring back what you have been building for years and what the true Lineage2 players love this game for.
These thoughts are my own, but I'm absolutely sure that more than 80% of the player base thinks about the same.This poll will end with high percentage in favor of the option #3, for which I voted myself too.
I voted the 3rd option but it doesn't really matter what we vote. NCwest is not the developing company and Koreans obviously ignore us 2004 till now.
Anyway it was 1 sec out my life
From my point of view, option two is the only one that can be used here.
Pros: less work for ncsoft balancing classes, we already to used to 8 classes system, extra skills from 3rd class give us more variety in the rotation in skills, and choosing skills from 3rd lass makes us more unique --> if we can choose any skills we want from the 3rd class(both active and passive)
Cons: it will take players some time o find out which ombinstion of kills is he bet or hm o se, because this will become a process of tril nd error.
I think that one of the strenghts of Lineage II was it ability to offer to the players a large number of possibilities in the evolution of their characters. Currently We still get this opportunity until level 85.
But the real change that block people in their character personalisation is the fact that when they awaken, they are not able to decide if they want to remove some skills that made their characters so particular or not.
So I think that we can diversify the game without creating new classes or adding some old skills from previous occupation, just by allowing people to decide what skill they want to keep or not.
One more thing, Lineage II was known also for the several debuffs that could be casted over monsters or players opponents. But most of them have been removed, replaced and not landing that much with the awakened classes making some of them imbalanced.
I think many people will vote for the 34 class diversification, but think a bit what will bring that too:
Hard work to the dev team (they will need to put a lot of effort to balance 34 classes)
Better "alternative" classes for somethings than others (explained below)
As will be a "big" change, prolly (or almost sure) a ton of bugs will come out too
Issues with the hero system because the point 2
I think we al know what are the devs planning to do with the 34 class diversification (thanks to rochand), and basically is something like this:
A class focused on 1vs1
A class focused aoe
A class focused pvp
A class on mid terms on 1vs1 or aoe
I think the only exceptions for this are the healers and maybe the iss enchanters (lol overlord/dominator).
I think too the first option is good, but wont make a lot of changes. Prolly all will be the same.
The option two is better for me, with slighty changes.
I mean, you can keep some of the old skills, yeah, but should be better what as awakening, you could learn "advanced versions" of those skills. I mean, I think all the non feoh wizards dont wanna see again the Feohs Storm Screamers back with empowering echo, or at least without an skill wich equally boosts the other races awakenings (not exactly the same, but with helpful effects).
By this time, not many skills were "worth" to save form the third classes, just some like "Duelist Spirit" or "Empowering Echo + Arcana power" in example (don't know any others, at least my gf elemental summoner didnt saw any worthy).
One is: Make it in that way is explained, but create a way (adena costly, nothing of NcCoins to make it available for all, and plus, creates an adena sink) to reselect wich skills you want (since wont be upgradeable, they will stay in the same level) keeping their over enchant values (making them re-selectable or "saving them" until you need that skill back).
The other one is: Of those available skills, make a selection (by polls worldwide or something) of wich ones are "better" for every class.
The cons of the first one, will be the hard work that implies, but should bring some diversity if the available skills are enough "different" from the other ones. Of course will bring bugs at the first, over all with the new system I suggest for those skills.
The cons of the second one... ummm... basically will be like an "improved awakening" wich will make a lot of people say "meh, screw it" probably.
Those are the ideas, if ask, Ill vote for the second option, I dont really wanna see the game screwed by a lot of time re-doing back all the old classes, changing enterely (again) what are we used to do.
Although i would like to vote for "34 class differentiation", since i find the "8 class" to be too "mainstream" and not into the original "Lineage 2" line of MMORPG, i voted for "other" instead. From my experience as a Fortune Seeker -> Othell Rogue, ill try to explain that decision:
Fortune Seeker Differentiation
Now, i've played in PS servers (and "other things" aswell), so when i started at Shilen, i opted for a "Fortune Seeker" because of it's "adena-making" possibilities introduced in thorough all the "Lineage 2" updates: Spoil keys and items that are prime material for crafting, get basic materials on the wholesale and be rich by selling them, and also get parties to search such ingredients, meaning i could be a part of any clan, exp safely and be all around useful. Suffice to say that all of these previously mentioned points is moot in GoD, since crafting is rare to non-existant, FS as a char is streamlined to a "dagger" position, one that is remotely related to it's original intention, and parties as a dagger are really hard to come by (although not impossible).
Now, Fortune Seekers as such have a polearm mastery and AoE skills that spoil and do damage, so you can go into a group and provide some AoE support. If not, you can rely on your blunt and stun enemies. If you get attacked, you have a LOT of HP and CP to soak some damage, and if all else fails, fake death can help lure some mobs away. Your function into a party is to provide spoils, new drops, collect things. If you went into an AoE party, you could mass spoil, set some poisons, get more drops, use a pole that hits more than 5 targets at any given time (the limitation of pole usage to non-mastery characters is 5 targets, even if you have 100 in a little spot in front of you).
Now as a dagger, although you have some significant AoE damage skills (Dagger Explosion is a fan-range AoE that does some damage, but not comparable to Eruption or another AoEs, Razor Rain is a little more powerful, but it also does not compare, and Poison "****" Zone is meek at best, does provide some "group control" IF IT LANDS), your function into a party is "seek the back, do some lethals and add some damage", a position that i dont think Fortune Seekers can fill correctly (if splitted up). AoE parties steer clear of rogues, and to prove that, ask around how many daggers are seen grinding in Guillotine Fortress AoE nodaways, and how many times i've been ousted from grinding parties on such.
Now, if you split it back to "Othell Fortune Seeker Rogue", what would be the main factor that sets it apart from the other daggers, in terms of not maiming its functionality and nerfing them into oblivion? You cannot give them a pole back, since that would transform them into Tyr Warriors (a position that i think accomodates more into place for Fortune Seekers, dont know what idea the devs had into mind to move Fortune Seekers to the "dagger" clasification), and i dont see how, by keeping the "dagger" classification, one could really provide a differentiation to Fortune Seekers, without leaving them in "no-man's land".
Now, i cannot say what that "other" solution could be, but perhaps to re-think how the original 34 classes can be encompassed into the new "34 awakened classes", to better accomodate the original purposes of every class. Moving Fortune Seekers to a "Warrior" setup would be one of those, but overall, i cannot think of other things to change to get into an ideal "NEW LINEAGE 2" mode.
I had some thoughts on Other-Class differentiation problems, but i'll leave that discussion for another day, since i have to experiment with such difficulties before talking about them.
Bring back character uniqueness and player enthusiasm for their character. (http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=245754)
I understand that alot of people miss the diversification that they had on the old race/class system.
But after a year of playing GOD and investing in the skills/ attributes/lvl of my main character I am more than a little bit nervous/concerned about the changes that would take place, and how they would affect the time/money I have already invested in my toon. I have a 99 iss w/ a dual class 91 wynn. after seeing how the changes were introduced/re-introduced and implemented to the wynn I am sure most understand my apprehension.
That having been said, if the devs were actually going to invest some time and deep thought in restructuring, the game play could be made deeper and more fun.
I am afraid though that it would require alot more thought and man-hours than the team of developers you have would really be willing to invest to 'ressurrect' this game that we who play it hours on end a day <3 so much
First of all, hello from Argentina!
I am using a google translator because my English is not good.
I would give my opinion regarding ladiversificacion:
1. Unfortunately, they lost in the lineage crafting, and keep in mind that never
was a strong point of the game was simple (do not confuse simplicity with chance of success)
and I think most people would enjoy a more fluid system with respect to crafting.
2. Similar to crafting, the spoil, could be expanded in function of the needs
the crafting.
3. If you were to diversify again, which I think is correct, should be
the theme that the different races have real differences, besides the stats
Figure of armor, and cosmetic things.
4. I have many ideas that I would like people to share directly with staff
whenever they want (if they want ..) that share, send me a pm.
I like the 3rd option, but there is a big problem with Sigel Knight Diversification... Sigel Shilien's Templar will have again it's Spirit of Shilen (the most op skill), Sigel Eva's Templar it's Touch of Eva, Sigel Phoenix Knight it's Flame Icon and Sigel Hell Knight what? they will be (again) the less required knight class because they doesn't have a skill that helps it's party members like the other ones.
I have played Lineage 2 on and off since beta and the game was partly great because of the various classes.
There are some things I like about my awakened character but its really annoying to level up a char from level 1 and be like woooo hooo I'm a necromancer and I'm super special...then when I hit 85, oh crap... I'm just like every other nuker now.
Its like what is the point of having 34 classes in the game at all if they are just going to get merged into 8 after they awaken? Its like marching someone up a mountain and showing them world and how beautiful it is and then marching them back down and saying that's what you can't have.
Maybe you don't bring back all 34 classes but at least give us class changes after awakening... maybe like awakening is starting your character off as a level 20 character would. At 20, you're pretty much not that diversified yet and when you hit 40, you will then be able to pick your eventual path. Why can't awakening be like that? Awakening could be just a starting point...then at like level 90 or something we are able to do a class change and pick a different skill path. Then at a higher level there is another class change...etc...
That way you don't actually have to revert the game back to what it was but still be able to add diversity back in going forward.
In my opinion, Lineage lost a lot, with Awaking. Ofcourse, there're a lot of new features, I'm gonna lie, if I'll tell that I didn't like few of new skills. But like I said, we lost diversity in this game.
1) I loved (or maybe just like a lot ? :P) to play Berserker, now, even if I have kamael, I need duals, and let's be serious, kamael with duals? No, it looks awful.
2) Going back to 34 classes again, it is possible, but who has time for that? You'll need plenty of it. But from what I've seen in this pool, it's the best way, it's not only about skills, it's about equipment too (2h swords with health for kamaels :P), and about diversity.
3) Even, if there'll be no changes after update in classes, I'm gonna play Lineage still, when time will allow ofc.
So like I said, it's not about classes only, but maybe it's time to think about making some other changes? Like Special Ability which I mentioned.
Hope that you, by you I mean all NCSoft, will see my post, and think about all our opinions seriously. Thanks for your time.
Greetings, Mike.
Umhhh...i'm not sure how this will work...choosing what 3rd class skill we can bring in awakening...means that an othel rogue ghost hunter who keep focus death will be deadly as hell O_o not sure about which one i should vote umhhhh...
Umhhh...i'm not sure how this will work...choosing what 3rd class skill we can bring in awakening...means that an othel rogue ghost hunter who keep focus death will be deadly as hell O_o not sure about which one i should vote umhhhh...
they will have to accomodate the power they get so that he is not hitting peopel for 30k, lol
From the information that i have read, all ppl who are now awakened, will choose later which class (of the 34) they will pick. So if you are Tyrr and before you were duelist, you can choose if you will be Tyrr-Titan, Tyrr-Duelist, Tyrr-Doombringer... This choice will not be available for 3rd class and lower ppl ofc.
So i vote for "Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes" if i will have the privilege to choose my class "again".
The option I chose would be to diversify the Awakened class back into 34 classes. I thought about each option and this one seems to be the most balanced to me.
Option one was a good idea, except I know if I was an orc, dwarf, or kamael that chose a class through the stone of destiny I would not like that I was automatically associated with a human sigel knight. I think that people should be able to chose which diversified class they want to go if they have already awakened.
Option 2 didn't really impress me much. It does give the players a choice of picking 3 skills out of 12 so there would be more options. I think people would figure out which of the three skills out of the twelve are the best options, and generally people would go with that. I think there would be cookie cutter picks for certain things like pve and pvp if this were the case.
Option 3 seems like the best choice. I think that the classes should be split into 34 classes again, with people who are already awakened with a choice of which one they want to be. This gives people who are already awakened the chance to pick which specific split class they want to play. I think this would make people the most happy with the game.
There are some questions that come up though with making 34 classes again. A big one would be what happens to the olympiad? I sort of like how there are only 8 heroes that can shout. Even with only 8 heroes sometimes hero chat gets pretty chatty. I couldn't imagine if there were 34 again and how the chat would explode from time to time. Though a good thing about having 34 different heroes is the chance for more people to get the opportunity to become a hero. Another question I would have is would the elves/delves have the choice of going elf/delf for their class. It would be interesting to see elves pick the delf class option and vice versa. I think this would create more choice in the game for people.
It's interesting to see what the developers are coming up with, and it's awesome to be able to share what we think. :)
1º option:
The Classes Awakened, by race. Will be Similar skills, and is not much difference than this momment. So the Diversity will be at Races, Not Professions (3th professions).
2º The Classes Awakened, By the oportunity to choose some skills from 3th class, Is more Diversity, but will be disbalance the server, Because if "Dominators" or "Doom cryers" deletes the Sonatas, Nobody will create Orcs, to get iss enchanters. So will be put a disbalance in server.
3º The Classes Awakened, By 3th Professions.
The worst i think. because we will have 34 Classes, and Much ppl (New), don't have the oportunity to Know Each Class works, And if Choose Wrong Class, Will be repent and maybe Retire from server. We Will have 34 Classes, Awakened And with differents stats/skills, and will be more difficult to make a change in some class, because will be a disbalance other classes,
Example:
Storm Screamer, with Much M.atk. Vs, Spell Singer, With Low M.atk
Ghost Sentinel, With Much P.atk Vs, Moonlight Sentinel, With Low P.atk
In this case, will win Storm Screamer, and Ghost Sentinel....
But if we have "Yul Archer Dark Elf, Vs Yul Archer Elf", with the same stats, but differences wy Race. i think than will be more Funny and Balance.
So the hero System. can be by Races, Not by Classes. (example: 1 hero human Yul archer, 1 hero Dark elf Yul archer, 1 hero Elf archer, 1 hero dwarf yul archer, etc, etc)
Not much Changes from now, to next Update.
Everybody will have Similar Skills, only the diference will be in Race.
We Will Have Complete Parties, With Tanks/Healers/Enchanters.
The Siege System. (remember, if nobody has Dominator, will make a disbalance vs Clan than Has). but the actual Class System, doesn't occurs that.
So i think than the best Option is the "1" (One).
PD: And people than are "Duelist", now Awakened to Tyrr Warrior. (Much people, only uses Sword two handed), And with new Update, Much people must to Spend Much Adena and Sources, to get "Dual Sword" (for example, in case of Duelist people).
(Sorry for my english, but i don't know much english, some words, are written textually)
(some words as example: "by" can be think as "per" or "for").
imo the 34 classes is what lineage2 is about, every class unique with pros and cons, but when thinking of the old 9 men parties maybe there has to be a small change. and that is with the supports, cause i see parties at l2 atm lacking even of the 3 classes (tanker/healer/buffer).
with the old 9 ppl parties u need swm/bd/buffer/healer/tanker, thats what i like of the awakened classes, so maybe do the old support classes but the "buffers" (swm/bd/domi/wc) with most of the same buffs (maybe only change little difference here and there) so as the awakened parties u only need 1 buffer class.
so my suggestion is a mix between the pre- and post GoD system
Voted for Option 3.
I miss what Lineage 2 was. Many different classes with different set of skills.
I miss the Fortune Seekers, The Crafters , The old Tanks, Party assistants such as BD/ SWS , Warcryers and especially in mass pvp Overlords.
Now everyone is the same. ...nothing special, just more atributes, more epics and more overenchanted items.
Fix the classes and after you change back the classes, bring back the economy by letting the player spoil, craft and bring back the joy of PK (which made Lineage 2 so special) and the joy of PVP.
The original game was really enjoyable. I mean that you may spend some time to try to make a good strategy to play, specially in PvP. Every class and race made you unique: tank elves with their cubics, kamael with their special habilities in their special classes, enchanter orcs with their buffs...
Now, we are the same, only the different thing between us are only one or two passives and one or two actives from your race (transformations, short time protections, etc).
I think that is a good idea going back to the 34 classes system. I have a lot of friends who stopped playing for the lack of classes (awakened ones). A lot of old players can return to enjoy a new L2.
But there is something to consider: If u had been a soul hound (fighter) awakened as Feoh Wizard (that uses robe + weapons for mages)... What will be next?
Here is my suggest: The Olympiad system must change if we will return to the old system after this experience. For example: 1 hero for all tank classes (eva templar, shillen templar...) and 1 sub-hero for each tank class, with less privileges or the first one with something more special as reward and the others with normal hero's rewards.
PD: Sorry for my English. It is not my natural language so I have done my best :)
Will this change of 34 classes keep the new Soul Hound (Feoh Wizard) Mystic Status? And of course, what about other classes that changed status from Mystic/Fighter to Fighter/Mystic?
The old 34 classes are more like a tilt to romanticism and nostalgia. Yes, I did love playing my Spellsinger back in C4, but on the other hand I cannot forget how HEs and Necros were all over the place. My point is that while I absolutely loved my SpS, there were certain classes that were OP for sure. Let's also not forget the 1min silence and the likes. Assuming that the dev team has moved away from that philosophy of skill making and will follow the style of today's skills currently present in the awakened classes, then there's really not a real problem with returning to what we previously had. Classes will just do different things.
With that said though, it's a good time to remember the min-max mentality. While this mentality is not that spread in L2, players will soon find out what is best for healing/damaging/pvp etc. Then, there will be even more classes that will be ruled out from parties. If the dev team is given into really trying to balance classes and what not though, this danger could fade out fast.
Additionally, bringing back spoilers and crafters is a really bad idea. The only thing that they could do is respectively spoil and craft. With that said, will they once again be absolutely nessecery for every player to have (at least the spoiler)? That would be beyond bad. Especially Dwarves need to evolve. Their design philosophy needs to change simply because no one will ever make a dwarf unless they leveled another character, awakened and realised that they prefer the animations of a female dwarf on their caster or the animations of a male one on their warrior or rogue.
The other race that got destroyed by the awakening was the kamaels. The kamaels are now bound to buy a stone of destiny for them to be able to awaken as most of the awakening classes, since they are not able to fill all roles prior to lvl 85. Let me remind you that no one wants to feel bound. If someone is to buy from the L2 store, then they will want to. L2 won't see any growth if the shop becomes "nearly" nessecery. Reputation makes and destroys companies and games.
I think that awakening and choosing certain spells from all over the 3rd class skills that comply with the type of the awakening class (e.g. healer or summoner) would be best. This will allow for customisation without creating the system from its roots. The devs will have to make sure though that everything will be quite balanced. This will definitely be easier though than the nightmare of trying to balance 34 classes again.
I cannot help but really fear though, about tragic mistakes that will occur if the 3rd option comes to be implemented. I still remember how useless I was as an EE, because I did not have Greater Group Heal. Like... Seriously?
givin classes back there 3rd class skills sounds all good nut what are u gonna do for classes like bd that lose all benefit of ANY of there skills via new 1s? if u wanna try sumfin like that u 1st hafta sort out what ur gonna do for them
OMG ty for giving us an opportunity to vote on this matter as i am used to the new awkened classes but miss the diversity of the original 34 classes. Whether we actually go back to 34 classes is yet to be seen ( but it looks that way according to poll ) but knowing NC realizes this is a problem for alot of older ppl really jazzes me up...looking forward to change ;)
Please remember to only post replies that are your personal feedback about the topic and question at hand. This thread is not the place for inter-player back-and-forth discussions, or comments on another person's opinion. If your post is not a direct response to the poll question, don't be surprised if it is removed.
Diversify by choosing what 3rd class skills to keep per the Awakening class chosen
the reason i chose this option is becuse i think that what class you choose to level to 76 should effect how your class is played and its ablitys after it is awakend. i like that before if you got all your subs to 75+ then you got extra skills the class specfic ones were really nice they helped alot and made a big difference between the same class toons.
Greetings Gon Namkung! I thank you for coming to us with this tremendous opportunity of player to developer feedback. Many of our region have already been following along through our official website and many other websites; sometimes even crudely using google translate on official Korean Lineage 2 web pages :D. I think the changes you propose are very well thought out, and our community has seen the main Korean region vote for a plurality on the 34 classes option. Our early results shows many of us want this with an even bigger majority in support as well.
"All is well that ends well" would seem to be it then.
But there is many questions and angles that me and my community members have brought up that would address competitive balance and diversification. One such topic I'm specifically talking about is the "race does not = class" concept still being broken further into the 34 classes. The second such topic is the lack of diversity in some classes and the lack of information on this diversity. I will address the former topic about race and class combinations first however.
Many in our region feel that certain races will continue to be the best in certain classes. This would be cited most specifically with LE classes being taken up by DE. It is a most extreme case of race opposites in concerning the STR levels and already opens up competitive balance problems. I'm not trying to critique the LE race at all, after all they possess excellent race traits in mage based classes and with the LE Othell Rogue. But any other variations of a LE in a warrior based class that is not race-specific has sometimes proven a further competitive gap to make up against DE's.
I don't want to stand on this LE-DE correlation as a fact however, or any other race and class combinations that would stand out the best quite handily in a competition either. But our community and many everywhere feels there is something there. My opinion, after pondering many options, would be to help the developers out in the pre-process by eliminating certain race to class options as has already been done with the Maestro and the Dominator.
A simple and effective solution it would be to restrict further classes to certain races only, based on the developers' decisions, whether the reasoning harkens back to story lore (no DE to LE classes and vice-versa), or they are decided based on mathematical characters' stats comparisons, it doesn't matter. This will ease competitive balance issues and bring back even more unique diversity by not having a class in every single race. Alternatively, my best second option or even more preferably as a following added option, would be to eventually add a Race Change (or more complicatedly the old Sub to Main with respective race change Service we once had) as a L2 service, respecting race/class restrictions but still allowing the more off-beat combinations like a Dwarf Sigel Hell Knight or a Kamael Iss Sword Muse. This would also, as a separate or conjoined option, greatly solve this dilemma of the vast race and class combinations out there creating competitive balance issues. This, frankly, allows the same changes as competitors, or by allowing the uniquely minded players truly pick at their heart's desire to a race and class combination, all while respecting the race/class restrictions the developers put in place.
The second topic is of the actual diversification process and the information being disseminated to us about this. It is being met with some lackluster feedback when it really shouldn't based on multiple regions' polling results and the power and popularity of the idea behind the developers.
There is again issues of competitive balance and questions of is there true diversity being met within every single eight of the original Awakened classes' outward branches. This is to be expected to some degrees, because that is sort of the name of the game, certain classes will excel in one area and others will in certain other areas. But this issue is being particularly noted in the Maestro, Fortune Seeker classes not being competitive enough to just "be" in the competition, the Judicator class being gone, and the "true pet-and-nuker" Necromancer being gone. There is endless options with these specific citings and within the whole diversification, but a potential solution is returning more skills from their "old roots" in those classes, and allowing the dwarfs some more leeway in competitive balancing.
There is also concerns within the Iss classes about not being able to bring unique buffs back. I will not get into this too much because I read your introduction and information regarding your line of thinking moving forward on this specific project and I greatly value your reasons for it. But I would like to see some Iss branch out from being "buffers" and into "bards" again, who would play in conjunction with the "buffer" and the party.
However, I believe the main point about this topic and why there is even also some lackluster feedback on the diversification process is the lack of information itself revolving around each new class. I understand it's still in development, but players of every type of skill level and interest level are wondering more about not just the class specific skills coming, but the roles of each class. Right now, we have competitive and casual players alike making future diversification choices already, regardless of their original class preferences, and all just because of the three to four skills we know each new class has so far (as well as their predisposed race being a big factor which I talked about as my first topic) and not because of the full list of skills, or if not available, a bigger list of skills and a bigger, better, and more-specific class role description for each new class instead of the one to two relatively repeated sentences we are getting for each new class so far. This will alleviate concerns of a certain class being "better" (and certain race/class combinations) and return the game to a true sense of diversity in the classes, races and all aspects of the game that we are seeking together as a community and as developers.
I sincerely applaud you the developers and managers of our game (like Juji, Sace and Cryo!). You have given us choices, feedback and even your line of thinking straight from the developers.
We have seemed, across even multiple regions, to together perhaps settle on the 34 class diversification process.
But as with all future decisions, there is plenty of time and further development to still be had!!!
We all want a long-lasting and fun game, and bringing more new classes' skills information, more clarified role descriptions, and class uniqueness ("old roots" skills) all while ensuring there will remain competitive balance (restricting further race/class combinations) and maybe even more versatile service changes (race change as one possibility, respecting race/class restrictions) seems to be a potential way to go moving forward with the game and its communities. See you in game Gon Namkung! :cool:
Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes , diversify back its a good choice but also we must have back the 9 ppl party :D
I agree with it but in addition to it, xp and sp formulas should be rewritten to be proporcial to the old amounts of exp (in percentage) for appropriate level player. Also, skills of both type could be revised for more unique gameplay of each character, I mean bring back the use of all type of weapons like ancient swords and more importantly rapiers. However there might be a problem in discrimination of one or another class in skill (e.g. while one class is could be useful in pve, anothers might be good at pvp). For this reason I highly beleive that each unique class should hold unique skill for pvp and pve (excluding common ones for damaging or supporting yourself) like debuffs or smth like that :)I'll be looking forward to the 3rd chapter of GOD. :)
I've voted to bring back the 34 classes to the game. This is what the game needs to stand out again among other MMORPG's. Due to the Awakening classes Lineage II lost a key feature over many other MMORPG's by drasticly limiting the number of classes, while starting off with a load that each have it's own pro's and con's.
Also I would like to see an increase in diversity back in the game. No default party setups anymore but party setups that are i.e. a pure Duelist or Gran Khavari focused for melee damage backed up by an Iss Doomcryer and Aeore Eva's Saint. This can bring back a few nice skills like Gate Chant, Mass Phantom Cubic and the Duelist' dual sword skills.
Another reason why I voted is that I would love to see the Wynn be reformed back to a one pet powerhouse rather then a multi-pet powerhouse. Bringing back (in my case) improved Spectral Lord would really revive my Lineage II spirit, which has been flowing away ever since the awakening. I especially choose to be a Spectral Master many years ago, even before they summoner class got all it's boosts and became more main stream (rather then low-damage party-buff class).
Bringing back the 34 classes will also increase the fun to do Olympiad Games again. Currently it's just controlled by the players that always been hero's before Awakening and were able to gather the adena to have the gear to win in Olympiad. Gear is basicly the only difference in game if it comes to PvP. Since Awakening it doesn't come to who has the best combination of skill enchants. Now everybody has the same skill enchants due to only 2 or 3 routes to choose from.
Premise: This is not about class diversification, but role diversification.
Each class has strengths and weaknesses inherent in the role they play, but they all have something in common. They all need to:
1) Be able to solo (deal damage to at least 1 mob)
2) Defend themselves in pvp (damage and defense)
3) Add unique value to a group of players in a party
Since all of the classes now consolidate after awakening, let's start there, with the proposed "splits":
Sigel Knight Tank (absorb damage, crowd control)
(http://wiki.terragamers.net/index.php?title=Sigel_Knight_Developer_Notes)
Sigel Phoenix Knight
Increases the defense capabilities of the whole party
Ability to protect party members
Role of a Defensive Tank.
Sigel Hell Knight
Increases the attack capabilities of the whole party
Uses damage dealing servitor
Role of an Offensive Tank
Sigel Eva's Templar
Uses Cubic for HP/MP recovery
Ability to restore the whole party's HP
Role of a Defensive Tank
Sigel Shilen's Templar
Increases the attack capabilities of the whole party
Enhanced debuff skills
Role of an Offensive Tank
We can see the Sigel would now be 1 of 4 roles when chosen for a party:
Defensive Defender + Party Protector
Offensive Party Damage Buffer + Damage Dealer
Defensive Defender + Healer
Offensive Party Damage Buffer + Debuffer
Aeore Healer (repair damage, assist crowd control)
(http://wiki.terragamers.net/index.php?title=Aeore_Healer_Developer_Notes)
Aeore Cardinal
Specializes in recovery magic
Clan healing skills
Aeore Eva's Saint
Specializes in quick skill re-use
Strong MP recharge skill
Aeore Shillien Saint
Specializes in MP recovery
Strong MP recharge skill
A healer would now be 1 of 3 roles:
Healer (extraordinaire)
Recharger - reuse delay buffer
Recharger - matk increase buffer
I could go on, but I think I've made the point that allowing this class separation to occur is really forcing each of us to choose a pigeon-holed role for our classes, just like it used to be. It was this strict definition of roles that caused people to stop playing toons like the Shillien Elder, Warlord, and I once knew 1 person who played an overlord (hey Smokes! Please come back to game!).
Instead of reverting to a class system that naturally excluded certain classes from parties, and made some classes desire solo xp only, I am suggesting that instead of class changes, that you implement roles.
Roles - a set of skill configuration enhancements chosen AND earned through play which enhances the specific uniqueness of a toon, WITHOUT CHANGING THEIR CLASS.
Other MMOs have used skill trees to accomplish this, where as a toon progressed, they were able to "spend" points toward a skill tree. As they got higher in the tree, their enhancements had a strong impact in their performance in that role, but in contrast, reduced their abilities to perform the other branches as they rose in power. Therefore, a healer that specializes in enhanced healing abilities, is less able to perform crowd control, debuffing, and damage dealing. A tank that is an extremely strong defender is hardly able to do any damage (and hence is damage neutral, but able to control the mobs). That tank, however, could go into DD mode, and be able to solo, but not be able to fend off groups of mobs as well (think of the Titan solo'ing in FoG)
The best part about roles is: YOU CAN CHANGE THEM EASILY IF THE PARTY NEEDS IT!
How often have you had two damage dealers of the same class in party? What if one of them could change to a role that would help control and round up the mobs while the other was in a super-DD role that could pound them to the ground? Can you imagine how people would play Sigels (or healers) more often if one of them could convert into a DD or Debuffer while the other performed the primary role of meat shield or healer?
But what if everyone turns into super-DDs? Well, those glass cannons better be made of glass, then, and shatter pretty fast. I'll leave the fine details to the people that have to make the game balance, but I would start by not making them skill trees, but rather "enchancement trees" that enhance the capabilities toward some abilities, and reduce the capabilities of the other side of the equation. And don't forget: However strong you make the DD in ability to make damage, it should be equally balanced by a defensive oriented role that can offset that damage or reflect it back at them. Balance, after all, is paramount, even if people want the ability to make their toon unique.
bring back the 34 diff classes also oly heros for the 34 classes
that would bring so much more to both game play and oly
current oly is basicly limited to 8 heros that are hand fed from there clans/ally
with a 34 hero structure you will see more useage of the oly systems of people trying to
get hero status instead of the current que for 15 games and pickup points at the end of
the term
the 34 hero structure will keep heros more diversifed on the servers between clans
meaning more feild pvp later on because no one clan will be able to hold all hero spots
as for the class changes bring em on
will be nice to have those option again instead of the face roll 8 awaken system now
Divide it back up, this is what made parties fun, put it back to 9 to groups. It was nice to sub another class in to heal if you didn't have a cardinal or something like that. Give mats a purpose again, dwarfs make nice little tanks and Aoe slaves,but they also spoil and craft. That's what they do and now they just...don't. Get rid of this "perfect party" cookie cutter nonsense. Make it worth grabbing other classes to parties to promote both PVE and PVP. I liked it that way, some don't,but we all get to vote here.
Also may I suggest going back to the old PVP system or reworking it a little to help legit players who want to pk cheaters to play that spot. The players should be given some power to deal with these issues if the game masters cannot.
Bring back the 34 classes. That was something very special that drew us to the game in the first place and kept us playing - evern for us non-hard core players.
Just a note - the game has survived over 8-1/2 years now. That's amazing! Complain as we do, the developers have done a dam good job overall with Lineage II!
I agree with Raist (and, blah - Drach.....remember L2 Blah...that's kind of a compliment - event tho he PK'd my **** just the other day in Dino Island...dang Drach!).
I'm just a very casual player, but been playing for awhile. Raist is right on, Bring back the 34!!! :)
HELLO..
maybe for many diversificaton wos good. but more the do that. i think the char need choice what direction wanan for his char. example iam tank and i like the panther. ... but iam tyrr warrior too. and likeme that tyrr can use wherever weapon... so no is good that at choice 1 class example tyrr duelist can`t use big sword cuz lost p.ata. and damage..
i like berserker rage is like frenzy,. but don`t like use alway big sword. some time like use duals. so the questions is..
the skills that tyrrwarrior are learn .. .will be lost ?? or lost power? os just is equual and just add more skill.. i read about diversification on the other server official and un tyrr can be tyrr duelist / tyrr titan.. but duelis have more hp tyrr can use skill up his p.ata.. so duelist can lost vs titan...
I think for tyrr warrior no need change skill that have now. best can choice skill can add fron 3th class obvliusly enchanted to awakenin. all it w/o lost any specifications.
or class overlord why lost sonatas.. so 1 warlod will be lost chance to get pt cuz get buff to all clann and on his pt w/o sonatas or 1 overlod + enchanter??
just if iss enchanter wanna make overlord. just add skill of overlod of 3th ocupations..
I picked other. The classes have never been as balanced as they are right now (not saying NCSoft has achieved perfection with it, just it's a lot better than in the past). Making 34 classes again or adding in 3rd class skills just means that everyone will roll to the strongest ones, and there will be plenty of tears from the classes that feel nerfed.
I realize they will probably go with 3rd class skills, which seem better than the other options, but this is still going to cause more imbalance. Look at the ISS choices they released in Korea.
SWS will awaken with silence and more pdef/mdef, prophets better cool downs, and WC with a toggle for patk/matk/pdef/mdef.
Meanwhile BDs get a patk/matk boost (not that strong unless patk is going to matter even more in skill dmg) and mass petrify (useless in Olympiad for the most part, and unless devs nerf brilliant purge it's also useless in mass pvp).
Dominators get more mp (which is meaningless at 99 since my quick escape skill at +10 gives me 10% mp back and I can use it every 25 seconds or so).
So what you will see is everyone that has awakened and knows the game will migrate to the strongest option available, and everyone else will cry that they suck after picking the wrong type. The better option is to fix the current issues in the pvp game play. Namely, lvl 99 skills don't land, tank hate spam and brilliant purge both need to get nerfed, and you still need to make a real penalty for wearing hvy armor without the mastery.
I personally think that the diversification of the 8 classes into 34 classes is a good idea.
First of all because it enables players to customize and diversify their character, it will enable different "build" types in the same arch-class unit. For example a DPS oriented feo storm screamer, a melee/paralyze oriented feo soulhound or a debuff landing rate oriented feo soultaker.
Second of all, it will introduce different types of play style, some of which were present before the Goddess of Destruction update (and are quite missed by a large percentage of the player base). This change might increase the population by allowing returning and new players to choose a play-style best suited for them.
And finally, this change will simply diversify and enrich the game environment, play-style and PvP, by introducing new (and old) game aspects that will require more different approaches from the players, than is required with the current 8 class system.
I voted other. I think change is good and all but, the problem with that is we cannot form our responses off of anything, only what people can translate through google off Korean sites. That being said really if you want constructive, well thought out feedback that is accurate, we need a PTS.
The problem with the game now is when you log in at max level you just sit in town and do raids. Sure, I go out for pvp to see enemies use party return every once in a while but, I put all the time, effort, and $$$ into getting to 99 for what? I'm doing the same thing I was doing at level 90... I would like to log in and have something new/fun to do... Lineage 2 now just promotes killing monsters and closed instance raids where you cannot be killed or pvp'd.... There are very, very few things that promote pvp. In fact I can only name one off the top of my head and thats the Execution Grounds Raidboss. It's sad that alot of us spent months and months, coupled with 100's of $$ for the game we have now... The only time people are actively pvping is every 2 weeks at seiges. I think diversifying the classes is going to help to make the good part of L2 which is PvP more interesting. With 34 classes though you will lose the very good balance L2 has atm, which would also turn into a big problem. There just isn't crap to promote PvP right now, which is the best part of L2 and thats why I'm unhappy.
Am I wrong or wasnt the whole point of GoD to move away from the old L2 and make something more balanced and pull alot more people in to play the game? Now, it just seems as though you're scraping it rather than addressing the problems... when this change comes all the smart players will pick the strongest race in their class so we can have the useful people and the gimp ones that cant compete.
To sum it up you guys need to address current problems, Lineage 2 doesnt need more classes but, it needs more diversification, but you guys need to put some more reward/emphasis into the PvP/Olympiad side of this game. An example for olympiad is hey I can get an r99 weapon in 3 years of doing olympiad when I farm enough fame with 10 wins/10 matches each day... you guys call that plausible? Then for PvP, let me tap CH or village so then I have to kill more mobs... We should get BIG rewards for being the best in Olympiad/PvP not this bogus reward system for oly you have now with the non-existant reward system for PvP. At its current state its more beneficial to Party Return from PvP, not even bother with Oly, and go do an instanced raids everyday all day. You NC-Soft need to promote PvP, not give us more instanced raids and classes to kill mobs with.
I picked other. The classes have never been as balanced as they are right now (not saying NCSoft has achieved perfection with it, just it's a lot better than in the past). Making 34 classes again or adding in 3rd class skills just means that everyone will roll to the strongest ones, and there will be plenty of tears from the classes that feel nerfed.
I realize they will probably go with 3rd class skills, which seem better than the other options, but this is still going to cause more imbalance. Look at the ISS choices they released in Korea.
SWS will awaken with silence and more pdef/mdef, prophets better cool downs, and WC with a toggle for patk/matk/pdef/mdef.
Meanwhile BDs get a patk/matk boost (not that strong unless patk is going to matter even more in skill dmg) and mass petrify (useless in Olympiad for the most part, and unless devs nerf brilliant purge it's also useless in mass pvp).
Dominators get more mp (which is meaningless at 99 since my quick escape skill at +10 gives me 10% mp back and I can use it every 25 seconds or so).
So what you will see is everyone that has awakened and knows the game will migrate to the strongest option available, and everyone else will cry that they suck after picking the wrong type. The better option is to fix the current issues in the pvp game play. Namely, lvl 99 skills don't land, tank hate spam and brilliant purge both need to get nerfed, and you still need to make a real penalty for wearing hvy armor without the mastery.
/agree
I voted the 3rd option cause the 34 unique classes was the top notch for Lineage II.But for sure if that happens the party will go to 9 ppl and not 7 that is now..Democracy wins! 34 classes back! :)
I chose option 2. I have played L2 since beta and I have enjoyed the game the most since GOD. The balance in classes regardless of race is a huge positive in my opinion. Adding a pool of 3rd trans skills from all races and allowing players to choose several is an excellent way to add diversity to the game without changing the basic structure of the awakening system.
Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes
More customization for each character played. More wide scale on PVP aspect of things. Just bring back the old school ways alot of people have been wanting that back.
The only way to bring diversify back to this game is splitting the classes again, BUT we can't forget about the good things GoD brought to us, like:
- Only 8 heroes: Hero status is unbalanced, 34 heroes = ONLY FEED. They can keep like this even splitting again (Hero of archers, tankers, summoners, warriors, buffers, daggers, healer, mage).
- 7 people party: Hell, this one was one of the best changes, you don't have to gather 9 PEOPLES.
1: I say Once the toon becomes awaken make all toons equal with each other. so example: Foeh. make all Feoh same stats no matter what race they picked. That it self will prevent just one type of nukers out there. Also i would like to keep the racial skills thou but make them a toggle instead. Would like to see the racial skill tweak too. example. my light elf with her prevision skill should be increase alot. i use that skill alot and it does nothing. this racial skill is useless should change it to like a % of amount of hits you are taken. so like every 5 hits i get the evasion.
2: If we end up going back to 32 classes it would make the game much harder to form full groups i know there is a lot of classes you can never find unless you are in a clan and even so if needed to pug a group a member is still very hard.
But on the other hand it I would like it to be able to add more members into a single party. So how to add this into work make it so you can either have 7 in a party but with the party lvl solidarity, or if people want they can have up to 9 members but lose the party solidarity.
3: I think that we should be able to 100% customize your skills. Make it a fee like 20mil for each time. So make all skill from the 3rd class and turn them into awaken skills, This will give us the chance to go back and pick up skill that we lost. I would love to get some of my old skills back. :P
I chose option 2. As long as DEVs balance the diversification of the skill selection there shouldn't be problems with tilting the choice to one side. Going to 34 classes might not be needed if they keep the 8 classes as a core setup. You still have tanks, healers, summons, daggers, archers, warriors, wizards and buffers. Why would the need to break them into 34? There needs to be a hybrid of 2 and 3.
Olympiad is just plain broken from farming to rewards. Hearing from hero shout every night," Another 10 consecutive wins!", from a farm fed clan makes Oly a nonfactor part of game for a lot. Get your 15 over with and done :( Not fun! I have 5 characters that can compete in Oly, but I don't cause the rewards aren't there. Yay I could farm Giants Energy,but not worth my time.
/agree Backstabb,"With 34 classes though you will lose the very good balance L2 has atm, which would also turn into a big problem."
"The problem with the game now is when you log in at max level you just sit in town and do raids. Sure, I go out for pvp to see enemies use party return every once in a while but......" Maybe PR should be a "chance" skill w/ a 30sec cooldown :)
The part I was wondering was: I have a Dual class Sigel. I got to Sigel by sublcassing a Phoenix Knight, but I am a DE. When I subbed PK I had Human base stats not DE as if I was Human. When I awakened I got my DE base stats back on Sigel which I would have preferred Human as my original sub gave me. Would that mean when I got my race specified skill(s) it would be from a DE or Human? What would be the implementation of dual class be? You possibly have people choosing subclasses not related to their races, later choosing to awaken.
I chose the option of bringing back the 34 classes simply because it brings back player originality again.
Right now, LineageII is fun but, it's kind of disappointing. When you hit 85, everyone basically turns the same, it takes away the umf of your character because you just feel like everyone else. To me that has made l2 lose originality and the main fun in the game.
I found with 34 classes it was more fun to hunt and play with other players and really added the uniqueness to the game. Now the game seems kind of dull after 85 because it's all the same either Summoner, Sigel knight, Feoh, Healer, ISS , Dagger or Warrior. I like having the choice of many different players to choose from when creating a party.
on a side note:
since everyone is talking about oly, i think adding 34 classes would actually bring more fun in oly because you don't really know what to expect when facing another player. Right now i notice in oly if you get a certain class you know what to use on them and you know what they will use on you. Sure that will still possibly happen with 34 classes but i think it will make it harder and of a challenge for players which makes it more fun! Certain classes will have certain strengths, i don't think having 34 classes would leave anyone being more weak really. It just takes more gaming skill , which is what we need since right now its just the same thing over and over again not much skill is really needed.
Though all this is said, I (and probably other old players) think you guys should make the old l2 available again! i know adding 34 classes would make a change but maybe just adding 1 or 2 servers for players with the old version of L2 would bring back the happiness and hardcore fun in the game!
I personally choose 3rd option. seeing the 34 classes again will bring back the fun of the old days. in addition to the awakening racial skills, this will definitely bring distinction per race. and will also give the differences and uniqueness of picking a certain race. however, though i chose 3rd option. i am not in favor of the option of letting those already awakened classes to pick whichever they want. i mean for example im a human sigel knight. i can choose to be an awaken sigel shillen templar if i want to? for me that will bring imbalance to the game. a human should not be able to choose to be templar and an elf should not be able to choose to be sigel phoenix and so on.
what should happen is to consider the race still. its part of the story and heritage of L2. if currently you are an elf sigel knight then you will only go to be sigel eva's templar and no more. so goes with the other races. its not good to allow an elf choose sigel phoenix and human to choose eva's templar. 1 reason is they keep their racial awakening skills. it will bring imbalance to the game i think. for those who use stone of destiny, they stick with the phoenix knight class.
I am very much in favor on bringing back the 34 classes. but better bring it to 9 party system for the sole reason that some classes may get neglected and may not be given the chance to join a party if it only limits to 7.
my main cons for the 3rd option is to keep the eva's templar to elves, shilen templar's to DE, they are the real cubic masters from the start and should not allow other races to wield such power hehe.
I read that for already awakened classes they can choose among the diversified classes. again i am strongly against letting them choose. let them stick with what race they have.
oh and let me add up to that. if we ever allow already awakened sigel knights to choose. look at this:
a dark elf chooses eva's templar sigel class, DE having the best STR among all races + having the skill disparition making them untargetable + possibly the life cubic. /gg imbalance. and de uses dark magic, should not allow them to use light magic haha.
another scenario: Human chooses Eva's templar - has racial skills of increase p.atk and the immune to debuffs + life cubic. /gg.
sorry to elves, they will be tank punching bags.
one more scenario for healers, a DE chooses the elf type 3rd class. with disparition and would get quick reuse of skills. ok /gg imbalance again.
its good to give emphasis to class and roles but lets not put aside the race. L2 is also class based, its one reason i think players come to like it is it has a varietu of races. give them distinction still and not just for appearance purposes.
Hello, For my part it 'll be a back to the 34 classes without losing the awakening.
Let me explain.
By the awakening we all merged into 8 classes as all people know , but unfortunately the specifications and the diffrences was made only by races, nothing more.
I sugess to keep the awaken 8 classes till lvl 95 Then after the 95 lvl having a new class transfer that would differenciate each class back. In that cases, we can return the some nice specification like kamaels and kamael specials weapon.
With the Dark elf tank and his deffensive and healing suport abilities.
with the Tank dark avenger with his high resistances and destruction ability.
Without forgetting ofc all those diffrences between archers.
An elf archer with less damage but Higer atk speed ability, and a dark elf with High critical damage and less atk speed.
So i think the awakening is a good thing to balance races and skills but we should consider adding a 5th clas transfer to have more diffrence between class.
I voted for other because I don't believe any of them will truly work. While they are all good ideas, players don't just miss class functionality but class aesthetic. There is a good reason why the Awakening system was devised.
The 34 classes of lineage 2 was really a special thing, its something other MMO's are striving for in different ways, but it did have major balance issues. Many classes were excluded and that's why Awakening and slimming the classes down into their ultimate archetype was implemented. We don't want to encourage this again by implementing the proposed changes we can see translated. No one wants to see Overlords disappear again (I mean really what are you thinking?) Classes were discriminated against until they had to be given special skills to compensate. SE's are a prime example, their healing abilities were nurfed to balance with their VR buffs the idea being that they were a mixed healer buffer class. That didn't fly though, with all the out of party WC's and the need for true heals not a mixed class and they were discriminated against. So they were given better heals, the ability to take the best heals, and Stigma; they became so popular that the other healer classes had to be given their abilities to compete. DPS is also always favored over defense. Thats a large portion of why SWS and BD's songs and dances were merged. Sure you could have a sws and BD for both, or you could just have a bd. Tanks with high DPS were also favored. The only time an SK or DA wasn't preferred was when tanking a raid, and often then it was a DA anyway. TK's and Paly's were pretty rare finds. The proposed changes to tanks could just be devastating to those classes.
The new 8 classes improve that balance dramatically, and while there are a few special classes like Necro and Soul Breaker that don't fit the mold most of them do wonderfully. People cry about missing their old class, but what is it they really miss? Is it the functionality of a SWS? Because thats exactly what an ISS is. Nukers are still nuking the same, archers are still shooting the same arrows, and daggers are still stabbing. What they miss is the visual difference. Summoners have been bemoaning the loss of their unique summons because that is what defined them as a class. They all had summons that could fulfil the same roles. They each did have special abilities but in party the only huge difference was the crit cat. The dwarfs miss their special skills but does no one remember that it was the dwarfs themselves that pushed to have their classes changed? They didn't WANT to be only good for spoiling or poling, they wanted DPS and it was given to them.
What people really miss is the fact that they don't have Unicorns, they don't use only dual swords or fists. They don't specialize in fire or water but both, and so does everyone else. The awakened classes should not be tossed to the wayside in favor of new skills that will specialize certain classes to certain tasks because that was what created the need for the awakened classes int he first place. They should not just be diversified by allowing them to use outdated skills. Each class could remain balanced and awakened, with a few small skills diversifying their classes such as allowing them to use old skills as suggested, but primarily re-skinned and slightly restricted.
Warriors could each be given the same p attack/attack speed, essentially remaining the same class, but restricted to their original weapons and given back a few old special skills that are not already encompassed by the current system.
Nukers could be allowed to focus on a single element, they could keep the same skills but again, reskin that nuke and give them a few old token skills (not the OP ones)" Elfs could cast super fast, DE's could nuke super hard, and Humans could be that nice middle. It is a small difference but a playstyle and feel difference.
Summoners need race specific summons again. They could get the same summons, with the same stats but different skins. I really don't know enough about summoners skills to give proper diversification suggestions skill wise.
Archers... I've been an archer for a long long time and they just are the same no matter what you do. They already had the same skills and the biggest difference was their base stats.
Daggers I also don't really know enough about but in my time on them I got the same feel about them as archers, but I've never played one to high lvl.
Healers I really think should just stay the same, they were virtually merged beforehand, however I do like the point someone made earlier about there being Cardi's the one true heal class that were supported by SE's and EE's recharging and I believe that could work in the current system.
Tanks could be left the same but given a few old skills without impacting base stats or party support. Da's could get their panther back, Tk's and SK's could get their cubics back and Paly's could get their phoenix's back. Da's and SK's could get their attack based skills back and Tk's n paly's could get their heals back but do not lend one to giving party dps and one party defense, it will work out badly.
ISS's are wonderful, why change them? If anything change weapon specialty, let orcs use maces, DE's use duals, Elfs use anything, and humans use.. bows? ^.^
It's the little things that count, not the big things. TLDR version : Look different not function different.
I think its to late to try to diversify the current 8 characters. (to much work)
Instead when it is time to raise the level cap again, you can come up with some sort of reawakening. At this point you can diversify the characters again.
As far as balancing the characters, I think they shouldn't be balanced. Instead go back to the old nemesis system. Nuker beats tank, tank beats dagger, dagger when up close beats nuker. I hope you catch my drift.
Since diversification is the major topic here, I never found L2 characters to be remotely diverse. A slight diverseness in the many characters you could choose from but a Gladiator is a gladiator. If you had one you probably wanted the same tattoos that the other gladiator had on .. same armor .. same weapon ..
In some of the other games I have played when your character levels up you received points to add to stats such as strength intelligence etc. even only so many points to level up existing skills, making your character truly unique.
Going back to 34 classes might sound nice. I was a Soul Hound that rolled a Summoner when I awakened. Where does my class go from there if you go back to 34 classes??
This has been one of my favorite mmo's. But, at this point, instead of more bandaids/patches maybe it is time to focus on Lineage 3 perhaps.
Bring back the 34 classes with an up to date graphics engine. You have a great mmo, but the graphics do look a bit dated.
So to sum it up bring back the 34 classes, remove instancing on all raid bosses to promote more pvp and make it a true open world sandbox. I would pay to play that game.
Keep the 8 Awakening Classes.
Keep the racial passives and stats.
Add more customization via 'builds'.
Let players customize their character to how they play and not how the lore for their character's race dictates they should play. I believe other games do this via "builds" or "skill trees".
Lineage 2's 34 class selection trees cannot be customized. If a player wants a more of a Bishop build but is a Shilen Elder, he has to reroll. It's insane to think a player will know exactly what they want on the character selection screen, let alone when the developers make substantial changes that change the way people experience the game.
I think already, an Iss Enchanter with options to choose a recharger/healer/dd build options would be popular. Or traditional DD builds of AOE/single-target/debuff. If NC makes AOE all the rage, Rogues make AOE builds. If half-kill becomes essential, they reset their build. It can fluctuate on major updates, preferred hunting spots, pvp needs, etc.
Race is a basic choice and mostly aesthetic beyond STR/DEX/CON or INT/WIT/MEN; don't turn it into a make-or-break for our characters.
I would like to present my point of view in this Class Diversification theard, personally i chosed third option not just because its the most popular one but just because it would bring back something that made most of us come to this game, the 34 classes would bring back the uniqueness of Lineage 2 .
In older chronicles the 34 classes made olympiad,farming,pvp decent just because u needed to have a tactic/style of playing for every of the classes which was making the game really awesome , seriously it was really awesome that every class had thier own abilities, as an expirienced Ghost Hunter i was always loving the ability of my class just because it had something that other classes couldnt have like counterattack skill, increased critical damage and so on. In other hands If the Class Diversification will take a place in the future it might convince alot of people comming back to the game just because it will bring back what them loved in the past;
The current situation of the 8 classes we have isnt that bad but the 34 classes would be much better solution for this game because everyone would play a class thats makes him feel happy.
Olympiad/PvP would turn into a better tournament just because the 34 classes would make alot of diffrence in the olympiad/pvp because for every class there is always other tactic in order to win or at least have a chance to win :)
i choice the 3rd option but you can add this :3 every player who awaken into a new class using an stone bring back to the old class i was SD before god and if it back i wanna be sd again :D
There need to be a Plunder update which actually don't work on Solo playing and in getting extra-item other then Ear like Spoil use to do , has a maestro awaken to dagger I was hoping to can farm my own mats and craft, which is not the case and was really dissapointing.
Hi there! Hope all of u are in good mood ^^ (im sorry 4 my bad english)
I voted the 4th answer: Other, and here's my explain. I will start with a q. that Sace has put at the ending of her post:
"What change should we make that will best restore class balance and uniqueness among the Awakening classes?”
I would say: maintain the 8 class and all the skill the same as right now
But, where's the diversification? Here's my explanation:
"Spirit of the Giants" (AKA: talent system) (before the nerd-rage about this, and say it's a copy-cat from WoW or another MMO PLEASE read 1st, emo-rage later)
When Shilien striked the land of Aden, she roused Hermuncus, who was sealed in the Ye Sagira ruins.
To awaken, you need help Hermuncus trough the quest "Seize you Destiny" and help finding his seals, after that, he granted you the oportunity to Awaken as one of the 8 giants.
Time after, Hermuncus decided return to Ye Sagira, to explore it deeper. He founded, in the middle of the ruins the "Passion of the Giants", a decayed poem writted by Laksis, dedicated to the goddess Eva. He recited the only paragraph readable "... the heaven's will be granted when u can see beyond the skylines"; after that, a big golden obelisk comes out from the earth. Hermuncus impressed, touched it and unexpectedly, he was teleported to Hirea, a palace hidden in the skies, protected by the ancient cat Obel. He explained to Hermuncus, that he protects the soul of the 8 giants, and invites him to enter and learn new things about the giants . Meanwhile, Shilien feeled the power of the giants rise and she go to the source, Ye Sagira, seeing the obelisk and feeling curious about this, touched it, only to see that she finally found the ancient palace in the skies. She quickly starts to corrupt the palace and everything that she sees. Obel, with his powers, protects Hermuncus and the palace. but he falls under the control of Shilien. Hermuncus, now it's trapped under the diabolic castle, and he's searching help to protect the souls of the giants and eliminate the corruption and the new leader, Feline King Lebo.
When a character reaches lvl 90, receives a message from Hermuncus, explaining how he founded the palace and what happened, and that now he needs your help. The character, start the quest "Palace of the doomed". When u finish it, Hermuncus with the new knowledge, grants u with the "Spirits of the Giants".
But how it will work this talent system? i will divide this in parts, i don't want confussions about this. (i will use the enchanter class for the examples, easier for me to explain)
-1 The talent system (i will call it SoG from now (AKA Spirit of the Giants) will be opened only to 90+ characters that complete the "Palace of the doomed" quest.
-2 SoG will be divided in Path/Tier, the Path will be determined by the 3rd class of your awakened character and u choose the path u like the most. The Tier will be predetermined and its regardless your class, there are going to be 3 Tiers and 1 special called Mastery Tier (will explain later). So then, will be like this:
->u are an 90+ Iss Enchanter u will have 6 paths: Hierophant/SwordMuse/SpectralDancer/Doomcryer/Dominator/Judicator, each path u take, regardless will be, will have 3 tiers and 1 special.
-3 SoG will take the most representative active/pasive skills from 2nd/3rd class and improve it, and new things, or make new active/pasive skills for the tiers. Example:
-> Im Iss 90 and i take the path of the SwM, my buffs now have more critical and Knight Harmony gives more pdef. Or i decided take the SD path, my buffs has more P.Attack and my sonatas gives more Atk/Casting spd, and so on.
-4 U will unlock the Tiers by leveling ur character. U will have a total of 20 points to spend between the 3 tiers. Each lvl gives 1 Sog point to expend, 95+ lvl gives 2 SoG points to a total of 15 points by leveling The other 5 points will be grant by quest. So, will be like this:
Tier 1 -> opened in 90. From 90 to 94, each lvl gives 1 SoG point, total : 5 SoG points.
Tier 2 -> opened in 95. From 95 to 99, Granted the quest Additional Path(granted at 97) each lvl gives 2 SoG points, total: unlocked 2nd path, 10 SoG points.
Tier 3 -> opened in 99. Granted the quest to unlock the Mastery Tier Rage of the Souls, granted 5 quest for 5 adicional SoG points, total: Mastery SoG Point and 5 addicional SoG points.
-4.1 The Mastery Tier will be a iconic skill (or 2 skill) that represents everything about that class. Example:
-> Hierophant: Counter Critical (or Word of Fear )
-> SwordMuse: Silence (or Song of Wind/Earth/Hunter)
-> Doomcryer: Chant of Victory & Magnus Chant ...And so on with the other class.
-4.2 The Mastery Tier will be opened under certain conditions:
-1.1 be 99
-2.1 have completed the Rage of Souls quest.
-3.1 have at least 11 points expended in you SoG Path
Rules of SoG
-1 Once u decided the path u want to expend points, u can't expend points in another path till 97. If u want to choose another path, u have to reset the points, for 10kk adena. Doing this will loose all the skill u have choose, u will have again all the points u expended and can choose freely another path. Example:
-> Iss 96, i have 9 SoG points at this lvl, and i choosed the SwM path, i can't give SoG points to Hieropanth path, till 97. The SwM path bored me, so i reset, and now i choose the Doomcryer path and assign 9 SoG points.
-2 In order to expend SoG points in 2 path at the same time:
-1.1 U have to be 97
-2.1 U have to complete the quest Additional Path
-3.1 U have to expend, at least 11 SoG points in the main path that u have choosen
-4.1 Only u can expend 4 SoG points to another path, and advance maximum to tier 2
-3 U can't choose certain paths if:
-1.1 Light Elf can't choose Dark Elf path, Dark elf can't choose Light Elf path.
-2.1 It's a "special" class: Dominator, Maestro, Kamael.
-2.2 In order to choose the class mencioned above (except Kamael), u have to be that class in pre-awakening.
-2.3 Kamael can choose another path besides the Kamael, but others races can't choose Kamael path.
So, in this way, i can personalize and make build, and play the game the way i want and i preffer this to 34 class again.
I want to hear your opinion guys about this idea, and tyvm for read aaaaall this! :)
some time ago that lineage 2 do not like me.
I wandered through some private servers, searching what was once Lineage 2, even I searched some other game for fun, but none match what I liked about lineage 2, the diversity of options that had to choose from the various classes and races, made the game more diverse that i know, so, I choose to Option 3.
although, it would good, make some corrections or new implementations to make more balanced races, as allowing an orc or dwarf be archer, and not necessarily create you a new class to these races, but an adaptation, since the str that they would have, leave them at a disadvantage to other races, but perhaps a modification to their skills or give them unique abilities per race, so could further diversify the world of L2.
Another possible option, would be to allow each player to choose or distribute X amount of points, so you could balance a little more.
but anyone else notice the title of the upcoming update?
GoD : Lindvior....if i'm not mistaken, wasn't lindvior a sky dragon located just outside of aden in lin1? and the only one to roam freely around its "nest" outside of a dungeon o.o!
gonna be interesting to see how this dragon comes to life for lin2 XD
I don't think that bringing back the 34 different classes they way it is already scheduled in Korea will change the game for the better but instead it will lead to the marginalization of certain class combinations.
Current state of the game may have some faults, but for the most of it are not attributed to the existence of only 8 classes in my opinion. And yes 8 heros are enough, having 34 will only lead to top clans having more of them in their ranks, thus imbalance the game even more.
I understand that most players reminisce the old classes and how they grew up together with the game, but truthfully it is more nostalgia than need. Bringing back the 34 classes as it is already proposed at Korea will only pick their interest just to find the most overpowered combination.
Party formation at the moment with 7 spots and all classes having the same functionality in terms of skills I think is balanced for how the game is at the moment. You pick up an ISS and can start xping. I remember the times when you had to have BD/SM/WC and if one was missing you either were inefficient or couldn't xp at all. Or need to have Titan+OL specifically for raids. Do we really wanna go back to this path?
My proposal is to modify the current plan of addition of enhanced 3rd class skills to work with the current state of classes, that is make the following changes:
1. Make all enhanced 3rd class skills scheduled to be re-introduced available to all classes of the same type (i.e. all 3rd class dagger skills available to all Othell Rogues) with a limited number of choice according to type (1 passive+1 active skill for example). Maybe add a common pool of 3rd class skills that all characters can choose one from, irrespective of class.
2. Make possible the change of selection of those skills for a small fee with a mechanism similar to sub-skills.
3. Remove all restrictions that may arise in skill selection (OL&Maestros, Elf/Delf etc), since after awakening all should be equal to any other character of the same class in terms of skills.
In this way there will be renewed interest for all players wanting old skills back (Bring back character uniqueness and player enthusiasm for their character), no class marginalization (you can change your selected skills at anytime )( Balance the classes) and preserve current ease of party making (Balance the appeal of all classes to group play).
Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes << it mean we back to the past. If you want to make some changes and update please move forward. when the class turn back to 34 awakening classes it will be some class rejected during party system as the old system. for example sword muse and dominator. the classes distribution will meet the same problems as before (as your data taken on may 2009 base on char level 80). the distribution of enchanter class and healer class did not meet the balance with other class such as tank, mage, archer and so on. even you make changes on party hunting system, player will choose popular class such cardinal and spectral dancer.
Please cross check the data before GoD and after GoD patch to make comparison. The GoD changes still better but it is needed to update especially detail of race skill. Diversify through race-specific traits for the Awakening class is the right answer and you need only focus to create a new unique race skills system to make lineage2 more colorful as before. Profession (basic) and race skill structure tree system must be separated but they are as union system. Both of them can work together to create a unique skill battle system (party, solo or pvp).
For example feoh elf: race skills - seed of water: increase water attack momentary when using water stance. glacier aura: increase water resistance when using arcane barrier. blessing eva (passive/active self buff): increase water effect/slow and critical when using elemental spike, etc. :D
With the introduction of awaken classes the game lost its original appeal, since we were no more able to choose our destiny. I started this game as a dagger user and I choose to be an human dagger user because of its game style. Now Othels are all equivalent and this looks reductive to me. What would be really impressive should be the possibility to have something specific to choose, some kind of fingerprint to give to our characters.
My suggestion is to maintain the present 8 awaken classes but giving the opportunity to choose let's say 3 out of 10 skills linked to our character race and pre-awakening class.
For instance:
- Othel Rogue coming from human adventurer ->
3 skills to be chosen among:
1 out of 5 racial exclusive skills
2 out of 5 adventurer exclusive skills
- Feoh Wizard coming from human soultaker ->
3 skills to be chosen among:
1 out of 5 racial exclusive skills
2 out of 5 soultaker exclusive skills
- Iss Enchanter coming from dark ekf spectral dancer ->
3 skills to be chosen among:
1 out of 5 racial exclusive skills
2 out of 5 spectral dancer exclusive skills
When I specify exclusive I mean each skill belonging to a racial set shouldn't be available for another race as well as each skill belonging to a pre-awakening class shouldn't be available for another pre-awakening class (for instance spoil should be exclusive for dwarves becoming Othels).
This would allow a player to really have an almost unique character and better enjoy the game as he/she is playing the right character compared to his/her playing style.
With the introduction of awaken classes the game lost its original appeal, since we were no more able to choose our destiny. I started this game as a dagger user and I choose to be an human dagger user because of its game style. Now Othels are all equivalent and this looks reductive to me. What would be really impressive should be the possibility to have something specific to choose, some kind of fingerprint to give to our characters.
My suggestion is to maintain the present 8 awaken classes but giving the opportunity to choose let's say 3 out of 10 skills linked to our character race and pre-awakening class.
For instance:
- Othel Rogue coming from human adventurer ->
3 skills to be chosen among:
1 out of 5 racial exclusive skills
2 out of 5 adventurer exclusive skills
- Feoh Wizard coming from human soultaker ->
3 skills to be chosen among:
1 out of 5 racial exclusive skills
2 out of 5 soultaker exclusive skills
- Iss Enchanter coming from dark ekf spectral dancer ->
3 skills to be chosen among:
1 out of 5 racial exclusive skills
2 out of 5 spectral dancer exclusive skills
When I specify exclusive I mean each skill belonging to a racial set shouldn't be available for another race as well as each skill belonging to a pre-awakening class shouldn't be available for another pre-awakening class (for instance spoil should be exclusive for dwarves becoming Othels).
This would allow a player to really have an almost unique character and better enjoy the game as he/she is playing the right character compared to his/her playing style.
I do play Lineage 2 on official server since 5,5 years. I did start it on the official server when was the live client the Chaotic Chronicle 5.
Under this time I did see a lots of thing how the development team did work under this time on the Lineage 2.
So I try to explain how I see/experience these changes:
1. The 34 classes was the thing what really meant the Lineage 2 these classes and their abilities gave for the game its really unique style.
While in another games you always have to choose between the 8 classical classes under in the Lineage II you could have really unique classes.
Fortune Seeker, Dominator, Maestro, Spectral Dancer or Hierophant, but I can see all of the class was unique not only in their name.
But yes if we have higher amount of classes the balance is way harder between the classes as with the 8 classes what is almost perfect at this moment.
But after all I can say all the 34 classes was well balanced around the High Five times, you could extended your abilities with different Weapon Augments, different gear uses etc.
Also many of these classes played important role in the economic, in the real unique economic of the Lineage 2, mainly the Fortune Seeker and the Maestro.
I have some characters on higher and lower levels too, when I did read, that the development team wish to downgrade the skills of the Othell Fortune Seeker, I didn't agree with it maximally.
Yes the OFS through he spoil abilities will be able to get higher incomings what with he will able to makes/buys better equipments, weapons.
But as I saw the plans about the special abilities what will get the Othell Adventurer, Othell Ghost Hunter, Othell Wind Rider, I can say, that the skill downgrade at the OFS is useless the another 3 dagger classes already better in PvP a bit with these changes.
After all as the Maestro return he will the main crafter also he will be able to use again only his golems what is another downgrade at the Othell Fortune Seeker
I think if the Dominator just will be able to buff his own clan or alliance members, than the development team should allow to them to use Sonata buffs too not only melody and harmony buffs.
While they also should allow only for the Dominators the massive Combat Point heal/restore abilities.
I still think, that at the Tyrr classes the Tyrr Duelist and the Tyrr Doombringer a bit stronger as the another 4 Tyrr classes with the current plans.
Finally I would like to thank for Mr. Nam Gung-gon and the development team, that they take care about our voices, ideas too it is a good feeling.
Also I personally happy, that Mr. Nam Gung-gon leads the development team, he has many years experience with the Lineage II, he is member of the team since the "classic Lineage 2 times", he knows what was good in the Lineage 2 at the old times, what are those mistakes what they made in the newer updates and what they have to improve in the upcoming update.
I did pay after 3 accounts before the Goddess of Destruction after these I'm maximally sure, that I will keep turn maximally this amount of money to purchase NCoins and through it support the development work:)!
I choose option 3: Divide the 8 current Awakening classes back into 34 classes.
The reasons as some people have said: Be original!
I really can’t understand why Ncsoft created different races with their own unique skills and abilities then made them all the same, why? That makes me feel like previous day I ate spagetti then Chinese noodle then pad Thai, but today just instant noodle :mad: It didn’t make L2 better, it made L2 boring day by day and killed our passion. I love L2 cuz its diversity. I love dark elf race and my DE tanker which class I have played for nearly 8 years. But now, no interesting, they’re all the same and the only difference is image of character. Please bring back our memories and passion of L2.
Keep this current class system, but build more, differentiate them more. An easy way to bring back 34-classes-system is change / add / fix / mix / remove skills. You can choose following options:
1- Add options on skills that character can take back their old specific class/race 3rd skills (with some fee).
2- Creat new specific skills for class/race which are similar to their old skills, but still keep current 4th skills (I don’t think keep 3rd skill is a good choice, cuz the skill power of 3rd and 4th is quite different, and the effect of skill on 3rd stat with 4th stat is a big gap)
For example:
**Sigel Knight: add new skill: can be enchanted +Time.
- Sigel Human has 15%-reflect-damage skill for party in 10 sec (while reduce augment reflect damage to 15% and no more 2nd skill).
- Sigel Elf has Eva-heal full restore party’s HP.
- Sigel D.Elf has Bless-the-blood skill which is ~15% recovery HP by damage taken for party in 10 sec.
**Wynn Summoner: fix – add skill for current skill
- Elf: cubic heal (10% like sigel cubic)
- D.Elf: cubic vampiric + debuff
- Human: cubic stun (2 sec)
**Aeore Healer: change and differentiate current skill
- Elf: fairy of life: restores target’s HP.
- D.Elf: fairy of dead: buff bless-the-blood for target.
- Human: fairy of faith: increase defence and magic defence by 500 for target.
**Tyrr Warrior: differentiate classes by skill and weapon type
- Human: polearm. Keep skill Provoke of Dreadnought, reduce other warrior aoe skill and add more aoe skill for human Tyrr.
- Orc: dual fist, 2-hands sword. Add more aoe stun skill. I really love class destroyer and the way they use Zealot + Frenzy, please bring their spirit back.
- Dwarf: dual blunt. Change item recipes and encourage their craft skill.
- Kamael: ancient sword. Add skill: reduce target physic and magic defence 5%
**Yul Archer: adjust their Stance skill
- Rapid Fire Stance: Increases Atk. Spd. +25%, +25 speed for Elf + Kamael. Increases Atk.Spd. +20%, +20 speed for D.Elf. Increases Atk.Spd +15%, +15 speed for Human.
- Siege Fire Stance: Increases P. Atk, skill power, and Critical Damage by 25% for D.Elf, 20% for Human and 15% for Elf + Kamael.
- Sniper Stance: Increases Critical Rate by 25% for Elf, 20% for D.Elf + Kamael, 15% for Human.
**Feoh Wizard: differentiate classes by skill & element. Elf – water & light, D.Elf – wind & dark, Human – fire & earth, Kamael – dark & non-element.
**Othell Rogue: differentiate skill similar to 3rd (Focus Death - Focus Power - Focus Chance, Wind Riding - Ghost Walking, Counter Attack – Dodge - Exciting Adventure)
**Iss Enchanter:
- Orc: restore party's CP like Dominator (keep MP recovery by damage on enemy)
- Elf: increases the recharge power (Mana Gain)
- D.Elf: increases heal power (Prayer)
- Human: keep their resistance skills (can be enchant power)
I voted for the 4th option. I believe that the 8 classes introduced with GoD brought a much needed balance to the game. Balancing 34 previous classes was an impossible task and it could never work. Many classes became underplayed, while others overplayed.
For me the challenge now is to walk a fine line between diversification and balance. Too much of one destroys the other. I really like the basic structure that NC Soft dev team has already suggested, so I will build my suggestion on it. I strongly believe that each class should be separated in 2 specializations not dictated by race.
Tank: Offensive/Defensive specialist. One boosts the party defense, the other the offense. Self explanatory I believe.
Healer: Healer/Recharge specialist. One has a small advantage in healing, the other in recharging.
Warrior: Single target/AoE specialist. Self explanatory.
Dagger: Damage/Evasion specialist. The first option would be an offensive dagger with strong critical rate/damage. The second a defensive option where evasion would affect normal physical/magical attacks and skills, increasing survivability by making the player hard to be hit.
Archer: Damage/Trap & DoT specialist. The first option would be an archer with strong critical rate/damage while the second one that wears down his opponent.
Mage: Single target/AoE specialist, same as warriors.
Summoner: Damage/debuff & DoT specialist. The first option would have stronger summons and weaker debuffs. The other option would have stronger debuffs and DoT.
Enchanter: Single target/AoE debuff specialists. The first option would have strong debuffs against a single target (like lower Pdef/Mdef/Atk.-Cast. Speed/etc). The second option (could be the Dominator role) would have AoE skills that could block skills, increase skill reuse, cause DoT, etc.
Key points for all the above to work:
Differences between specialization classes must be small to avoid class discriminations
For the same reason as above, skills that increase the PvP ability should be avoided (Kamael racial excluded)
I have reluctantly suggested DoT, since they had in the past very small effect in L2 (nearly useless). This must change for this option to work. DoT should be short and with strong effect. Alternatively, it could be longer with less effect but have additional debuffs, like preventing healing to the target it lands.
I have suggested several offensive/defensive counterparts. In the past offensive were considered (and was due to game mechanics) much better than defensive. This needs to be balanced.
To balance out single/aoe specialists during exp, developers could implement the following feature: in group exp areas, after a group of mobs die a strong monster could spawn (like a mini boss) with a lot of exp. That would make single target specialists needed to exp as well.
Racial skills should remain and maybe add 1 or 2. Dwarves’ crafting and spoiling should be racial skill.
I will start with some flame to make things more fun, "A Dwarf Sigel Knight – which cannot currently exist but can be created through the Stone of Destiny– will be endowed with the same traits as a Human Sigel Knight.)", Orly? how do u call today a Dwarf that has awaken as a Sigel Knight then?
To get serious now, if we forget for a minute the stone of destiny (because if u have it u can do whatever u want in all three choices), the 3 given option are quite similar.
With the first u get more classes and heroes and u awake on a predetermined class specific toon.
With the second you get to choose what skills you get, classes and heroes remain as they are.
The third one is like the first only you get even more classes and heroes.
So if u dont have very high hopes of camping oly and get hero status and u dont belong in one of the 2-3 clans that rule every server and get all the heroes, i suggest u pick second option. Personally i find it much less irritating not to have to deal with 5 heroes spamming skills in every siege zone (and in random pvp also).
But they must check carefully which skills are available + the power of the skills. And if they do so, which 4th class Skills get removed.
For Example, as a Ex-Duelist the main source of power atkspeed+dmg wise was Duelist Spirit, which is a 2nd Class Skill. The 3rd Class Skills of Duelists aren't that great compared to the skills of other classes like Armor Crush of Titans, etc. etc.
Great news. Voted for back to 34. Wouldn't mind having more than 34.
The reason why I played L2 was that there were so many races and classes combinations you could choose, that made your character special every time and with combination of different armors, weapons and SA, you could create even more special character and pwn even with completely different character than your mate does.
Now:
1: With 8 classes almost everyone is the same and that became really boring.
2: Little choice of weapons/armors make again all characters even more similar.
3: Party only areas above lvl 90 suck badly. Many players liked to level alone in the evenings. Now there are no areas for it, what makes many players just quit as they cannot find decent party during their free/play time. I mean don't take me the wrong way, the party finding system is great, but solo leveling areas are needed too...
I very much hope we get to have special characters again.
First, thank you for communicating openly by telling us that this poll has already taken place in Korea and that development based on those results has been started. It's nice to see information on the game's developement is not withhold from us and it's also nice that we (the NCWest server players) have an opportunity to express ourselves in these forums (and that our opinions might be listened to by the Korean developpers) even if we are not the biggest market for this game.
Obviously I voted for option 3 in this poll - bring back 34 individual classes. And I think there should be much more diversification than what has been suggested so far.
If I look at the proposed changes for my main (Iss Enchanter awakened from Sword Muse) the proposed changes are pretty much exactly what I have already (my overenchanted Song of Silence skill which I kept by not learning Petrify does exactly what the proposed Sword Muse Iss skill would do and a passive for more P.Def/M.Def [in PvE] won't change much, is hardly even needed).
I would much rather like to have 34 unique classes again with each class having at least one good thing that no other class has. At the time of the update, allow all awakened players to select one of the new awakened classes (that he or she could normally choose as main or sub class within the normal restrictions) and compensate players for any previous overenchanted skills they might have had in some way.
Not all classes need to be equally good at everything! Some classes should be better than others in Olympiad or in 1v1 PvP, other better in sieges, some better for bosses, others better for AoE, better for solo hunting, better against magic mobs, etc. Classes in L2 have never been perfectly balanced in each regard and that was in my opinion an essential part of the game. Each class had it's unique feel. There's enough other MMOGs already with a very limited number of player classes that force the player to spam skills all the time even when hunting normally.
Like the previous poster I am also delighted and voted for back to 34.
The variety in the game was one of the things that made it "more" interesting. While the awakened class generality is great it would be nice to have some more specialities... and we can probably guess a bit what capabilities other chars are by looking at their appearance (it won't work for everybody but its something else obscure to know about :)
Anyway. I am also delighted that you have polled the community on this and that they appear to be choosing diversity and individuality (and to some extent fate - as we are not choosing what we are we are what we are and we accept that).
My personal preference would be "back to 34 classes", together with setting the party limit back to 9 players.
The 7 man party limit has really caused problems, especially for enchanters, who now have only one party slot instead of the previous buffer+sws+bd. Plus of course less people per party means a higher number of parties, together with a higher demand for rarer classes like tank and healer. Which means that quite a few ISS and DD have to stand around because all the tanks and healer already have their daily instances done.
Together with the re-introduction of the 34 classes I'd also like to see a revamping of hunting grounds or introduction of new hunting grounds for "non-optimal" parties. Pre-GoD it was possible for players to form 4-5 man parties, even without a real tank or healer, and go xp. Right now, it is either a.) solo or b.) form optimal party with healer+tank.
I would have voted for the third option, if it didn't go against the storyline.
After all, the awakening means abandoning one's gods and the power one draws from them and acquiring the power of the giants instead. One could perhaps keep a small part of their previous powers as a reminder, which corresponds to the first choice, but not enough to actually be differentiated from the other members of the same class.
Truth is, the current situation doesn't really follow the story's logic either, in one major point to be exact: the kamael. Anyone who ever played the game as a kamael and is familiar with their history should agree, that they shouldn't have been incorporated with the other races. The judicator class, in particular, was supposed to search for a way out of the predetermined path the kamael are bound to walk. The awakening simply ignores this and treats the kamael as if they were fashioned in the same way the other races were. To begin with, they should have been able to grow powerful enough to fight the gods' armies and do so in ways the giants themselves weren't capable of. So why thwart the plan so close to fruition?
My suggestion therefore is: option one (Diversify through race-specific traits for the Awakening class) for the god-made races and allow the giant-made race to expand on their existing classes as the game's logic would have it.
I know it sounds silly, but the current state doesn't make sense story-wise.
I vote for the 34 classes option, let me tell you a short story supporting it.
In all the Rpg games I've ever played, archer character has been my favoutite. Playing Lineage 2 i found Silver Ranger the most suitable for me. I always liked how it differed from other archers. It had it's own heal, was faster, as an elf should be and was generally race-matching. I was quite disappointed after playing god, awakening, when I realised all of my favourite char's uniqueness was gone. However as an old fan of L2 that didn't put me down and I continued playing, even if I had low chances in pvp with tyrrs, who had my old heal skill :(
The perspective of L2 taking bits of it's history back to life is really tempting. I personally know at least a few people, who prefered to start playing on private C4 or Interlude instead of the official. Most of us miss these times. Returning to item crafting, disposal of silly iss enchanters, to have SWSes and BDs. However that needs radical changes in game systems. You could increase party limit to 9, leaving space for other buffers, make new hunting grounds for solo gameplay, where we could obtain mats for crafting weapons, quests for mats and recipes, decrase drop chance for weapons and armours.
Although it all sounds so nice, improvement needs some work. I know you heard it lots of times but you need to stop people from boting, which horribly destroys the high level gameplay, as all the prices for top items are only affordable for bot owners, who can increase prices. I'd be delighted if you implemented a change, in which one computer can run not more than two accounts. In this case one could use a dualbox but not expand it to a whole party of bots which is ridiculous.
That's all from me, do this and bring back the pure epicness of this game :)
Go back to the 34 classes, it makes no sense to start off at 34 classes from 1-85 then change from 85-99. It should help with finding parties with the kinds of tanks and healers not sure what the iss would be though if that changed.
If the 34 classes came back make it so you can only have 2 accounts on one pc. If not botting will be worse.
Im my opinion, independent of our chosen, the change has been started. In the Korean Lineage 2 poll, the win is to bring back the all of 34 class that we had. And the changes at all classes has begun, you can found the new polls with the suggestion change and the results.
I voted #3, IMO the L2 survive over almost 7 years wiht 34 unbalanced class, but the strongest classes need of "Weak" classes.
We survive when changed to GoD and reduced from 34 to 8 and we will survive if change back to 34 again.
I just red few links above and i dont know if its wrong translation but "Summoning two monster will reduce the percentage of combat ability."
More nerf for summoners?
I dissagree getting back 34 classes. In my point of view, summoners where prefered in pt ,human-> melee pt , elf-> mage pt, delf-> solo...
Because of summon skills. And never understood why human should have both skills of the other races? With GoD , all summoners have same skills, same pets and the diversity came only from race stats and race skills. I found that more balanced than before but still need more fix. I would like to see back one race cubic. Stone of destiny made few unbalances (kamael summoner) but it will be fixed i guess.
My opinion, i would like keep the current system with 8 classes and add a selection of skill/s from same pool for all races of a class.
When awaken you can choose for your class 1 or 2 skills from 3 or 5 class specific skill pool. I would like to keep the same stats in pets for all summoners. I dont care about how they look (demons i guess is the coolest for me :P) but keep the same stats.
I voted the third option! lineage is a virtual world where each one has its gameplay, your expectations about its pesonagem, i think that only eight classes are not enough to play a server where people from all over the world!:)
Right now game is more balanced then before, just make balance even better
Delete all old skills active/passive
Add some things for make more class customizations (diffrent builds for all calasses, more SAs for weapon (meybe special SAs for pvp from 85+ lvl not only 99+), more armor enchantment for sets with totaly difrent bonuses)
I vote third option, I do not like the fact that all the characters are the same. Racials skill are a joke.
Pd: Lineage 2 lost his spirit and for me this can get him back to how it was before.
Greetings.:)
I think better to think abaut race skills,the active race skills are bad ,better to be only passive race skills to boost in cmplement the stats on individual unique race like:
human.............p def
elf..................m def
d elf...............m atack
orc................p atack
dwarf.............special skills craft/spoil and to make other non pvp/pve skills like buying/selling on shops with better price like bargain skill(sry for my bad english)the only race to be able to craft special items like blessing and why not a different better version of common armor,weapons(like blessed armour with random +def/+passive skill +the blessed thing) or to make items that only from craft to be able to get,not from website,common in game shops/npc (i know twilight+ only from craft u can get but i think a more large equipment to be able to get only from craft like it was before god)
-with the augment thing it would be nice to forge rings/talisman and other things inside the armour/weapon and be able to keep one pasive skill,one active skill and one + stat like if i get from one augment one pasive skill and +20 p def when i augment again i will be able to keep the pasive skill and get + another thing on my second augment
THE HUMANS will it be the race with the highest p def not only by their stats but with the only race passive skills to!!!!
+pro
+party p def increase
+party shield defense increase
+party 30% reflect damage to enemy=-30% dmg u get and +30% dmg u give back on enemy by their hits
-con
-magic defence because humans are no special magic creatures
-speed,critical rate and crit dmg
-other skills that is in connection with magic like phoenix "magical fire bird"
This is in my onpinion the only race difference unique skills
THE ELFS the race with the highest magic defence and +recover hp like overlord and doomcryer heals
+cubic that automate heals party when 50% hp and one time/player life savier like when 10% hp it will give full hp
+heal skills
+party 5% of dmg u get from enemy it gives back hp
+party magic deffense ingreased
+party critical damage received just 50%
+very strong recovery hp like the phoenix knight have touch of life,a unique skills just for race elf
-bad con stat and without human unique p def passive race skill
-low crit rate and crit dmg 50% higher than humans have
-low p def and shield def
-speed but a little higher than humans
-poison resistence
THE DARK ELFS best magic atack like it was previos god with the empowering echo unique dark elf skill
+magic atack
+crit rate and crit dmg like 3xhumans
+night more special skills that gives +p atack,+m atack,+ cast speed,+ speed,+ atck speed like zerg skill
+party crit rate and crit dmg and p/m atack
+speed the fastest character on lineage
-low p def like elfs and m def +50% human but much lower then elfs(a balanced betwen elfs and dark elfs +m def elfs=+ m atack dark elfs)
-no heals skills but very strong poisoning skills
The ORCS race
+p atack
+good crit rate
+when hp<20-30% very much pasive skills will activate like was previos god frenzy,that gives huge p atck and p def(for short time like 1 min p def like humans max p def)and pasive skills that remain active effect until hp reach 80% like p atck atack speed and p def.
+huge hp like 5x any other character
-speed ,atack speed,m atack,m def,crit damg
Voted to bring back the 34 classes, after all thats what kept pulling me back to the game after leaving several times and trying new ones, only to get bored by them and their 8 class options.
I have a Iss Enchanter (Dominator) I want that class back, best role I ever played, and I agree with a few earlier post MASS CP HEAL should be unique to Domi, however it needs to be beefed up coz the 1000cp is pants atm (mind you it was pretty crap before GoD), & Gimme back my steal essence.
Also have a Ghost Sentinel, Maestro and Spectral Master I love their current traits, holding back on awakening them. There is so much this game has to offer, but it has been bottle necked by recent changes, although I must admit some are exceptionally excellent.
I don't know if anyone has suggested this before, but why not consider making changes to the main class based on the selection of your unlocked subclass?
Example: My main is a aoere healer. I select a Summoner as my Dual class. The result, after I awaken the Dual class, I get a new summon with powers relevant to a healer on my main class (something like lumi that has a hate skill and a ud).
If I instead took an Iss enchanter as my Dual, I get a set of sonatas that complement the Iss enchanter ones. Or I would at least get the HP/MP enchanter buff.
Or a sigel knight, gives me a heavy armor mastery and a Shield Bash type skill using my sigel.
This would be a very fun return of the old subclass skill system with respect to the way the final subclass skill used to be special.
L2 was unique because every class provided a different gaming experience when played with different race. It's what made L2 so much better compared to other blank MMO's where everything's the same, your char looks just a bit different.
However, this should be done with great care. Right now there's a pretty good balance between classes and it's highly possible that introducing those 34 classes back to game will disturb the balance.
100% for 34 classes. I can write all my life how bad 8 aweken classes are and how all players are now the same, but i think it has been said before.
I say just one thing, i love lineage2, but u have killed 2 my favorite characters : duelist and titan.I think many other ppl, who loved their characters feel the same.
Lineage2 was great because of huge number of different classes and i hope u;ll bring them back.
Diversify by Dividing the Awakened Classes into 34 Classes imo.
That's the thing lineage 2 was missing after GoD... That's the reason players left... And hopefully when there'll be more classes people will come back and gather again.
It's also perfect idea as for heroes. More classes = more available heroes = more people parcitipating.
Same class different scenario is a great idea. It'll allow players of same class do a totally different pvp fight.
Apparently option 3 sounds good, as it brings back the uniqueness of older versions combined with awakening classes, would definitely gain some old names back maybe even some that are about to be born.
What was great fun was you had a choice of so many different classes,each with its individual skills,++the abilty to" go out and explore" (as newbie guide used to say)
Now its just instances after instances ,and no possibilty of a diverse choice for character.
I would welcome a diversification to 34 characters+A various areas to xp hunt in rather than same old instances.
I choose the 3rd option, return to the 34 different classes, as diversification return and uniqueness to each of the races and classes. It was the most fun and unique to each one possessed to differentiate.
this option will OP one class of something, i have played since C1 and the only thing NCSOFT has ever done to fix "classes" is completely nerf one class and OP another at the same time....example would be the first time they tried to fix classes and nerfed down archer to almost nothing and OP'd mages to make them crazy powerful
then you decided that the system was unbalanced again and that tanks needed to be upgraded and made tanks one of the more OP classes in the game, stop messing with things until you figure out how to actually fix something to make all classes about the same instead of making one class/race way to OP
dont split back into 34 classes because then there would be way to many heros running around, the only way 34 classes would possibly work is if you make hero status class based as it is now with tank, mage, summoner, ect and its decided from all the different classes of tank(hell knight, shillen templar, evas templar, ect from before GOD would make the tank classes for hero)
I voted for other. I find that getting back the 34 classes is the right path to follow and it is one of the feats that makes Lineage 2 a wonderful game.
But I voted other because I find the methods not what I expected for this process. I find that the most appropiate method must be by adding the power of the giants.
this process must de by Adding the set of skills of the awakening classes to those the character already have and keeping the set you already have. The set of skill you gain by awakening becomes influenced by your previous class. That means no more stone of destiny. But keep the Dual class.
At the momment of your awakening your stats get updated like they normally are.
You gain access to your racial trails:
* Human : Aim, Mental Fortress, Fitness and Unbind.
* Elf : Swiftness, Water Blessing, Delicacy, Prevision.
* Dark elf : Dark Presence, Wind Blessing, Life Siphon, Vanish.
* Orc : Fire Blessing, Energetic, Savage, Undying Will.
* Dwarf : Dexterity, Earth Blessing, Endurance, earth tremor.
* Kamael: Battle Instict, Dark Blessing, Soul protection, body reinforcement.
Your character get the set of skills that the Awakening class have but they work a little different because the influence you get from your race and class trail.
This can be an example for the Siegel Knight Class:
All knights ADD a full set of skills from this class.
All classes has a roar that prevent the use of physical skills, but:
* Phoenix Siegel Knight : This character gain access to Golden Lion Summon that is the unique Lion summon version for previous Human Phoenix Knights class trail. It replaces the lion summon and the knight cubic and works by instantly buffing the party (the clan members close enough to this summon in a siege) in its area of influence with a stackable buff that increase PDef/MDef that could be named Phoenix Blessing and also remove Debuffs from the summoner and by chance to other party/clan members. The buff last a short time but is instantly rebuffed if you are in the area of influence. This summon version has a low to medium damage output so can be used to attack but has better uses.
* Hell Siegel Knight : This character get his/her panther replaced with the Black Lion Summon, high PDef/MDef Summon. This version of the summon has a higher damage output and while it attacks has a chance to debuff the pray with poison or harmstring, no buffs.
* Eva's Siegel Templar : This character get a Water (cristal like) lion summon, this version has a extremely high Pdef/Mdef and a very low physical damage output, instantly removes debuffs from party/(clan in sieges) in its area of influence, has a very high chance to cast a healing over time to characters and allies with 30% or less HP is not like a healer but can keep them alive until a real healer can help them. This replaces the lion and the cubics so also preforms like the cubics but smarter. This has a second roar that works like the storm cubic that works in automatic and random mode.
* Shillien Siegel Templar : This character gains Shadow Lion Summon that replaces the cubics and has very high PDmg but a low Pdef and High MDef. the attacks of this version drains HP and MP from pray to himself and its master, and also debuff and poison like the cubics that replaces to any attacker to the summon or their masters. (I have always seen the Shillien Templar as a offencive character with debuff power and heavy armor).
For Yul Archer path: All skills are given again but adapted to the class and race legacy.
No more Crossbow for every one, it returns to be a Kamael exclusive weapon (like the ancient sword for Tyrr Doombringer, the fists to Grand Tyrr Khavatari or rapiers to Feoh Soul Hounds and Iss Judicators (no more duals for this class on kamael characters))
* Sagittarius Yul Archer : Slow running speed, but powerful damage output in the plains. well balanced critical rate and critial damage, this makes him the most powerful Siege Archer.
* Moonlight Yul Sentinel : extremely fast run speed and shooting arrows, deadly precision makes this character the most deadly and accurate in the wilds, while running and in long range combat. Critial hits land even more often after awakening due to enchanted arrow passive. Low damage but high critical rate that slowly crumble the most armored Mobs. Point blank passive skill has a chance to hit the pray with two arrows with the same shot each carring its own critical chance.
* Ghost Yul Sentinel: this shadow is really deadly for those you are unaware of its presence, blend in the shadow a single shoot makes the highest Pdmg per hit and can make your knee crumble. One single shoot and your fate is almost sealed. The slowest shooter but the highest stunner and Damage dealer. Every shoot can seal your destiny if a critical lands on you given by Awakening and to the even more powerful critical Damage that stores a Instant Critical Dead Passive skill. A chance to Instantly kill the target on a critical.
* Trickster Yul Huntress : This kamael version of awakening makes her a deadly opponent to Mobs and unaware prey, can only use a Crossbow but is deadly with it. the traps, tricks and debuffs can make you bleed to dead, poison, entrangle or even fool you to attack a decoy. low normal damage from crossbow but fast and very accurate also deadly from skills can lead you to a trap or an ambush.
Also I would like to suggest a very different path of Awakening to dwarven character, I do not see them as rogues or healers, I think you set this trail to balance population but it really do not work for them. They are Maphr children, children of earth, I suggest a reawakening as Siegel Knights or Tyrr Warriors to all Dwarven characters. No more dagger or staffs nor swords to Maphr children only one or two handed blunt weapons.
* Maestro Siegel Knight : Gains Shield mastery to fill the roll of tank. Summons a Stone Lion Construct (white granite like Lion golem with electric blue strips like all giants constructs) has a sencond roar that shots a granite ball with electric blue strips like the mechanic golem. Can only repair and strengten the construct not heal the party/clan but this summon has a powerful hate aura and the repairing do not lead to aggro by mobs. Retains case harden, edge sharpen and the other simmilar skills. The blunt has a stun and the shield too. The create item and craft becomes updated to fill the needs of the clan. Increase the masterwork success chance after Awakening. all other summons are updated to the white granite with blue strips constructs appearance and damage.
* Tyrr Fortune seeker : This awesome dwarf master is a spoil and killing machine, can use blunt duals or two handed blunts to stun any MOB that challenge them to turn them into raw materials. Spoil, Spoil Festival, Sweep and master sweeper become updated to keep the pray longer before desapearing and to be able to sweep materials form other member of the same party/clan in the same hunt and to gather them al at the same time. His/Her stun attack has a chance to work as a spoil too.
Feoh wizards retain their stances but regain their favored element (fire for humans, water for elfs, wind for dark Elfs, darkness for Kamael) that do double damage.
Get us back to the 34 classes. I used to love playing Shillien Templar. I was attracted to it by it's complexity and vast ways of playing. You had no idea what you were playing.... tank .. damage dealer .. mage. YOU HAD IT ALL!
Playing in olympiad ... heh .. you had a counter for everything if you knew how to play it.
I played SK for 7 years.. since c1. It is my soul class and i would give anything to play that wonderful character once more. This update has ruined the passion of all the players that had their hearts set on one character for the past 7 years. I miss the touch of death, spirit of shilen, lightning strike, drain health, freezing strike, and many other that were lost.
Bring back the classes that made us fall in love with this game and stop this cruelty!
I have chosen option 1 because it will allow an path of steps to follow to make specific classes for certain races unique again without makeing it very hard to see the overall picture.
This will be the best option also because in the 34 class choices there will always be "dead pocket choices" with the less wanted or desired characters and it will be very hard to make every single class truely unique on its own.
Allowing to choose to keep certain 3rd class options for skills would just be causing double trouble because of the potential of getting "cookie cutter" choices (giving people the false idea that if they made the "wrong" choice they should start over).
Right now with awakened skills its pretty clear what you get and ontop of that getting unique racial abilities and skills would be preferable because it would allow for small additions and changes over time potentially with polls and votes taken in from players.
I know that im also not alone in the very hard choice when i started out in beta to decide what to play and then which class to take, back then your choice was much harder because the route to it took much longer.
There also where too many obsolete skills from going first to second then to 3rd class skills which made for alot of dead weight which has all been taken away with awakening and streamlined into makeing an much clearer picture of ones skills.
With awakening everyone gets usefull skills and your never that class or race people dont want.
I have simply played too many games which had the opposite with classes / breeds / professions / etc that where not very desired or didnt make it into the "perfect party".
I am very glad to see that be a thing of the far past even though you always get the "more desired" classes in my experience your always wanted in some way since awakening no matter what you choose to go with which is a good thing because it makes lineage 2 much more enjoyable.
I would like to see kamael ancient/rapiers back and split even more with 35 where may choose soulhound between fighter or mystic, was hoping more like a rogue.. also keeping some 2nd class buffs like warsmits ones or in my case pride of kamael would not be a bad thing. (if eny wonders I'm back.. I survived
The most important thing its to restaure the freedom and the conection of entire characters with his natural class and his history related with the lineage world. More independence its needed for players.
I think it would be good to speed up the game when you are alone, that lineage 2 is a group game, but it's a nuisance depend always of a iss enchanter and also needs time to find someone that gives you buff or connect a dual acount. I think it would be good to clear melodies and harmony, leaving only four sonatas that could provide for the healer or the same iss enchanter (iss enchanter return like a spectral dancer but logically could return with new advantages to become a new assistant). and melodies could provide for oneself. and 3rd option is nice, I think a awaken like 70% and 30% of 3rd class. good, so I think the game would be more fun, more angile and more diversity.
I stay with the 3° choice. The awakening is a good idea, but hav to take 1 class between 8 is not soo good. What you hav to do now is think how to bring back the 34 classes without funcoff with existent ones. Maybe the awakening come with a missing part of 26 pieces, and who choosed first, now cannot repair to a specific class. It will be frustrating to others players who already awakened. Maybe you find a way to repair it. If it can be, then everyone will be happy.( buff system is good how it is, but with 34 classes back the buffs will be divided and you will need many chars to hav a full buff. So i think you need spend some time thinking how to make it.)
Sorry for bad english ;D.
I Voted 3 but we also have to look back to avoid previous mistakes. Duelists were strong at pvp, but their weakpoints were the lack of range, the low m def. A decent Archer or Mage was easly able to get a Duelist down. After the change of Hi5, giving fighterclasses the ability to rush, it tooked away their only weakpoints. A Frenzied titan with a AOE stunning rush? Also a TANK should be whats its called. Just a Tank and not a PvP beast. We had some fine and decent balancings back in time. Too many classes were knocked out by updates.
I think Option 3 would be good for the game to get more individualism. But it is one of the hardest change in respect to OP. It's easy to change a class with new Skills so that it will be PVP OP and/or PVE. Maybe some classes will be OP in both and will be selected mostly. Another problem will be if some classes get special Skills for only PVP/PVE, because party size is only 7 and it could be hard for them to get a spot in a party to lvl up.
So it would be important to have a good base when you awaken in any of the 8 class. After this you should be able to select a specialization. The questions is if one of the new class should add a specialization to PVP or PVE and not both so that a player select which path he wants to go or if every class get balanced skills for PVP and PVE. As an example I would select the Dreadnought. It's a nice class for AOE PVE and maybe in AOE PVP but it sucks from DMG output in single PVP in opposite to the Duelist as example (I don't speak of best equipped ppl because they are OP in most situations). So as example for the Dreadnought it would be nice to not only add "old" skills for AOE specialization in PVE/PVP but too some skills for single PVP with Pole-Weapons and other weapons.
The dominator as example was a nice class for PVP but if he can't buff anymore like a "normal" ISS it will be hard to get a spot in a 7 ppl party. Nice would be if the dominator get some extra skills for mass PVP and maybe a special Party buff for PVP or some skills to buff clan. But then the other ISS must be strong in single PVP. The dominator should be something like the Dreadnought. Mainly mass PVP. The other ISS should be specialized on single PVP (DD) and get some nice debuffs.
Problem in L2 what I see is that most of the time there exist one class which is OP and will be selected by many ppl to pawn others. So any change must be balanced. Maybe it would be better to add first skills with lower power and change power of the new skills later or add other skills to balance before change one skill only every time in respect to give a balance in PVE and PVP.
To raise the interest in some classes it would be nice to give every class a special party buff or something like that. Like the forces or the tank aura. So you can balance a class for getting a party. It should be cool to play in a party and not only solo. And there should be more combinations to form a party. As example at moment many pvp parties choose two healers. It would be nice if they choose then a healer and a dominator ISS or a Tyrr Titan because the party get a special buff from him.
If we check this classes we see so clear unbalanced skills. Remove targets is cool but is kinda pathetic if you just macro the name of the adventurer.
I play l2 since 2004 and always loved the "TH style" (Treasure hunter in Doom light... good times :D). Some updates transformed the class that I loved so much in a pve fighter and not respected at all, coz other daggers could give more dmg. In resume: I don't wanna be forced to create one char with one race that I dislike because the pvp factor.
So yes, my wish like player is balance on skills, give to each char specific skills utilities that help in pve, sieges, etc and be equivalent on pvp. If u compare daggers in the past(since freya), humans were so nerfed compared to others races, u can run arround any server right now and u will see how many human othells are there(because no more focus death/power and just race skills).
About plunder... well, we have to be honest. After years of lineage 2, I think none have more any desire to spoil thousands of materials and pray for don't fail... or create a char just for it(spoil spoil spoil)... so I think it could remain like it is now and make one new job for dwarfs, giving him plunder as well but different skills (maybe different weapon and gameplay style, as well area spoil skills).
Wouldn't be better if Ncsoft had done also pole before bringing G.O.D. update, about who wants the game to be changed and who doesn't?
They did not ask us, they just brought it.
We would not have reach this point now.
Obviously majority of players is fun of the old l2 game including me.
I voted too the 3rd option.
It was the 34 classes among other things that made l2 unique and diferent game from others. Now it became a bit boring.
But if you do that, i suggest please to let us choose free what we want to make our characters even if we are awakened and even if we have used a stone of destiny.
Before G.O.D. update many of us had splited subclasses for example in order to have all kind of support classes by paying real money to ncsoft.
Then G.O.D. update came and this splitting had no meaning, it was waste of time and money (f.e. cardinal , shilien saint, Eva saint>>>1 healer class).
And now you want to bring again the 34 classes, which i like , but please think also about your customers. I hope you won't force them to pay you again real money in order to get back the class they had before if they had used a stone of destiny.
since it seems we can't discard the changes GOD made and many ppl still love the 34 classes l2 , i say ' get the best of both worlds' (lol) , aka allow skills learned before 85 to be retained after awaken ,those were skills hard earned wich now are discarded like its nothing , make them work on awaken classes as well and you can have them only when you take the right path with second and third class change ,not : make summon/domi,fast xp,buy stone of destiny ,awake aore like many do these days , this way you need to choose well the class/race you start with;
AFter reading the answers of most of the ppl here , and after1 year only in game ,my opinion on what missing the game.
The option ill choose it will be No4, None of above and something new.
Im pretty Sure ppl love the 34 classes that were before GoD, and doing awakening with only 8 classes ppl actually got nervous since in many occasions the class that they would pick, or thinking of changing wasnt close to what they wanted, or what they thought it would be.
Especially in every change or patches, classes and Roles are getting buffed or nerfed so ppl tend to "whine" and demand changes etc.
The proposal ill say here, it might be a bit difficult to achieve, but actually worth a shot to say it.
Introduce a new system with the opportunity to each player according to his class to be able to acquire a new role in the game as he pleases.
And what it mean its: Find a way to in every class the player have the option inside the game and according to circumstances to be able to change according to needs, something like special paths, special skills, Talent points (some ppl may reffer to other games similar to this system).
This system would give the chance that each player would have the opportunity to play his class acording to how he wants, being able to alter his combo of atk skills, survival skills in pvp condition, soloing or Grouping.
Path 2 -> Dmg healer, e.g. Shillen Aoere. Supportive Dps, with debuffs and Combat assistance role in the party, such as restoring hp/mp/(Cp?) with his damage done, and a path for a healer to be able to solo and not be depend on others all the time.
Path 3 -> PvP healer, Options on Armor Mastery with pro and cons (if u wanna have heavy on, u have to lose some casting speed, or healing capabilities) PvP cooldown for u and ur party with variation of fast healing survival skills with much less power than heals of path 1 to make him survive pvp situations + could be an addition in raids to mitigate the group dmg according to his skills.
Wynn Summoner.
Path 1 -> The Path of Pets that its similar to what he has now, with some extra cooldown on increasing pets dmg and decreasing Wynn itself efficiency.
Path 2 -> The path of summoner that pets are a support, and summoner itself is the Dmg Dealer, with increased dps coming directly of summoner with marks, new spells, boosted spells etc.
Path 3 -> The Path of Extraordinary dps in both pets/summoner but INSANELY vunerable in PvP situations.
This path with be great for pve situation only, since on pvp he would be useless and die quite easily.
(path 3 its some of " omg?", i know just stating an option seems overpower also to me!)
Tank
Path 1 -> Defencive Tank pure survival Skills/stats, aka a Meatshield for raids or even pvp situations.
Path 2 -> Offensive tank, with supporting the party by boosting atk type skills, being able to do some dps more, in order to create more agro and support in pvp rather than aoe hate !
Path 3 -> DPS TANK! (i know seems strange, let me explain) Tank Defences go out and getting replaces with some Dmg skills, so could be able to dps in raids if needed since of too many tank, being able to get some bonus on 2h/dual wield weapons and support the party with debuffs/auras etc, and being able to solo faster if needed. Something like Vanguard that tanks had preGoD.
Mages
Path 1-> Pure dps role for pve situation with great bursts, as he is now.
Path 2 -> Lower dps role, with more Crowd control and survival skills in order not to be oneshooted by psysical dps so would be able to stay longer in fights.
Path 3 -> cant think of 3rd path of mages !
Othell
Path 1 -> pure Dps role for pve or even pvp but with less survival skills/passives in order not to be supperior for pvp
Path 2 -> PvP situation Role less dps, more survival, crown control skills to get another role than hit and run that he is now.
Path 3 -> Money maker Role, extra plunder chance skills, crafting skills, ofc some dps better than path 2, and perhaps possibility of having more variation of weapon choice with extra benefits.
Warrior.
Path 1 -> Brutal physical dps, focus on Melee weapon of choice such as 2h swords/Dual blunts-Sword with debuffs etc.
Path 2 -> Master Of aoe (pole Dpser) Focused on doing aoe dmg such as in exping/grinding bursts in aoe skills etc with speciality on Poles.
Path 3 -> Survival Warrior, with defencive skills and possibility to use shield to mitigate dmg in order to somehow replace the tanks (lets face it, tanks are always needed and there is never enough of them), or atleast be a supportive 2nd tank, with much less dps ofc than path 1/2.
Iss enchanter
Path 1 -> Master Of Buffs with great supportive cooldown and normal dps ouput helping out in fight.
Path 2 -> Master Of Debuffs, New debuffing skills, lower Cooldown, a bit less dmg and buffs than Path 1.
Path 3 -> Damage Dealer iss, lower buffs/and debuffs standards with much more dps burst so he would be able to do something wenn "dps check" fights exist.
Archer
Path 1 -> Long range dps with option of bursts such as mindeye etc,
Weaker in close range fights, but with fast escape skills.
Path 2 -> PvP dmg dealer , with crowd control, much less dps than path 1, higher survival instincts, and skills than can benefit in controling/dpsing even in almost melee fights
Path 3 -> Combo dps, his pets gets skills/buffs than can assist in combat much more than now. Archers or hunters in most of the games always had a potentional to do dmg with they pets rather than they do now.
So after all this "wall of text" im suggesting its to give to each player and potentional to reach his limit with his own class and according to what he likes the most that that time.
Im sure its quite boring since the exp after some level and beyond can be become quite hard to be healing for hours endlesly if u got an option perhaps to grind solo and do some dmg.
My Point is that using this system with the option of each class/player to able to switch around with different paths as he pleases would make the game much more fun for him, plus will help to make parties much more easier than now since more than 1 player would be able to fill the same spot, and be more fun in order to make each player be able to customize his play style as he wants, either with picking path 1/2/3 or even makes combo of us path by losing ultimate skills of each path but achieving some balance.
P.s. a Great idea for something exept this that i propose would be if possible to Add a hybrid class as supporting healing/dps class, some would say that iss can do that, but what im referring here would be a class to assist with healing in raids/pvp rather than getting a 2nd healer in pt, because atm healers are quite hard to find in high lvls and i constantly see ".... LF healer last spot."
p.s.2 As i said before this system reminds quite enough of Wow, or Age of conan but this system in imho seems to give to everyone the chance to change, to something he wants so it wont be boring for him.
This way will relax also ppl if they need a break from the pure party situation and need some time off.
BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front): Option 4.
Other-> Incorporate ideas from all.
Expand back to the 34 class’. To facilitate that, enable a ‘re-awakening’ w/o loss of lvls. (see bullet 2 in Economy below for issues of investiture in equipment)
Justification: people chose race of character they’d like to play for asethitic and or stats based reason. Humans for the highly specialized skill sets. DE’s for attack power. LE’s for def/agility/spd. Orc’s for strength. Dwarf’s for staying power (Constitution) and market oriented. Kamel for…..not entirely sure (I’ve only run one up to 40 so). Lore-wise didnt the awakened 'break' the limits imposed by the gods?
Aeore - Give racial bonus’ and/or skill or 2 from 3rd class
IE: Human Aeore (maybe add buff to increase received heal)
LE/DE Aeore: maybe modify cast speed/MATK buff (based on race/racial stats)
ISS’s-
Orc ISS’s:
- Human ISS’s: Prophet not really a live class anymore- need a reason to play.
o Option: give buff(s)/toggle skill stackable w/ ISS. ( Affects party only as long as in party?) IE: Windwalk, str, etc . available only to Heirophants (not warcriers). This could possibly be a racial/class benefit?
LE/DE ISS’s: include skill or 2 from 3rd class.
Dwarf Notes:
- Warsmith (Tyrr) need a reason to lvl. Availability of gear up to S grade in luxury shop (good thing) reduced NEED to craft anything but the higher stuff. (all Awakened dorfs can craft. Why not do BH and get paid on the way?).
o Option: add an item/step (not just for the high end –as hinted at in other forums/news)-that can only be accomplished by a WarSmith?
o Option: add skill to identify items. Similar to craft skill levels. That does not require a trade to complete. Use same mechanisim as set up a craft shop.(ID lvl 1, lvl 2, etc) (see Economy notes)
- Enable crit crafts on all grades/items
- Warsmiths Siege golems: Havent seen them used in sieges in years. Most just go to the doors of castles and beat down in a few mins. Also the cost/benefit ratio not really beneficial in todays environment.
o Option: reduce cost of summoning, increase toughness (or allow enchantment (OE'n skill) to last assault little longer).
o Option: increase resistances of castle doors to all weapon types/ele’s…except to siege golems.
- Bounty Hunters: Other than being a pack-rat and turning in all common mats (for S grade and lower crafts) for either adena at NPC store or ‘donating’ to aden reconstruction guy (total gamble) they’ve lost their effectiveness. I’ve seen bots not even bothering to pickup the common drops.
- Give back AOE spoil/and sweep. Let them get that whisker from Valakas. :P
- Change the Warsmith craft skill (grade) and BH main ingrediant spoil paradigm.
o High 50’s/low 60’s WS can craft A grade. A similar level BH is still only spoiling a lower grade gear.
Economy notes:
- The market economy has gone into a sort of in-game recession (just my observations).
- Equipment does not move around nearly as much due to the implementation of ‘Bound’ items. Half of most equipment is bound. When they hit that next grade they are not able to turn that set/items/etc around to help fund the next grade of gear. End result = adena spent on items that collect in limited WH space and reduced supply which in turn drives up the $’s on those items that were lucky enough to be standard. The idea of ‘unidentified’ is good…gives the player a sense of excitement of what they could end up with.
o Option: Turn all ‘bound’ items to standard items (no changes to SA’s, OE’s, ele’s, etc). When someone identifies (possibly a Warsmith skill w/ lvls corresponding to grade they can Identify) something it either results in a standard or blessed item.
Note: this could provide the nudge needed to get the market moving around. As some players like the playing the market aspect of the game.
Though it might sound a bit WoW-ish, the way I see it, in order to make this game enjoyable for everyone, Devs need to focus on giving multiple variety of set ups for every single class, allowing every player to change at will between any "stance" they desire.
This kind of change will benefit both Random people that play casually aswell as benefit Constant parties that many times spend endless hour in search of 1-2 essential pvp/pve members to complete a party.
I'll try to show bellow examples that might give you the bigger picture:
-WARRIOR
2 Different Stances
A) the typical warrior, a browler, debuffs and buffs alike that increase dps.
B) Tank type warrior that can control monsters and foes alike while providing protection type buffs for all the pty (lower lvl of buffs than the pure tank)
-HEALER
2 Different stances
A) Holy healer , pure healing/recharge purpose w/ minimal Dps capabilities
B) Dark Healer, Deadly fallen healer w/ high Dps capabilities that manipulates the life force of monsters and foes alike, ability to release a portion of dmg done to enemies as HP/MP to the party members.
-BUFFER
3 Different stances
A) Warrior type, masters many weapons providing additional pure dps to monsters w/ low debuff & heal capabilities (prety much what iss enchanter is right now)
B) Debuff type, magic attack capabilities, low heal capabilities
C) Healer type, low debuff & magic attack capabilities
-WIZARD
3 Different Stances
A) Classic old annoying powerfull mage that controls ellements to bring pain and misery to all that oppose him, Pure nuker DD, low defence capabilities
B) Debuffer, very close to a Necromancer but actually having debuffs that work in pvp :P, ability to summon a servitor that provides protection to the master.
C) Fighter mage, very close to soulhound,
-ROGUE
2 Different Stances
A) Pure DD w/ low crowd control capabilities , low survivability and high power debuffs on target that increase dps for the rest of the party members.
B) Master of deception, a pure debuffer that taunts his enemies by eliminating their use in battle. medium dps capabilities
-ARCHER
2 Different Stances
A) Pure DD, master of the bow, but low survivability, low debuff capabilities
B) Ranger, both master of bows and close range weapons alike, ability to summon forest creatures to assist in combat, self heal abilities, stealth abilities,debuff abilities
-TANK
3 Different stances
A) Knight of the Order of Sun ,low Heal capabilities, high resist in physical dmg/ physical debuff, increase power of physical skills of party members, ability to revive self from the realm of the dead, hp regen aura
B) Knight of the Order of Moon, low recharge capabilities, high resist in magic dmg/magic debuff, increase power of magical skill of party members, immunity to dmg from skills for a short period of time, skill refresh aura
C) Knight of the Order of Death/fallen Knight, High debuff capabilities, high magic/physical dmg skills, negative energy aura that drains health from the enemies at certain radius, while lowering the resistance to physical/magic debuffs.
-SUMMONER
3 Different Stances
A) Warrior type, Master of beasts that deal heavy dmg to a single target, providing beneficial power increase buffs to all party members, low debuff capabilities, ability to wear heavy amror, ability to use fighter type weapons, tanking abilities, ability to transform to "spectral warrior"
B) Mage type, Specializes in Aoe dps, low party heal capabilities, party mp regen capabilities, skill refresh party buff, low debuff capabilities, high aoe dps nukes. ability to transform to "spectral mage"
C) Debuff type, High debuff capabilities, ability to enter the spiritual realm to control enemy actions for a short period of time, ability to enter the ethereal realm fo a certain period of time to gain immunity to any dmg/debuff, ability to move through time and space releasing a series of debuffs to enemies surrounding an area instantaniously. health draining nukes.
Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes would be cool.
Classes should have skills according to their race-3rd profession. Feoh for example (as im feoh in game) would be great if had stance according to race. Dark elf feoh should has option for dark - wind stance only etc. Unique skills between races whould make every new class interesting to try. Unique dark - wind skills for d elf, water for elf etc. Classes should also keep some skills from 3rd class like it was before.
And what about if full pt with 9 members come back to game. Two iss with different sonatas, rechargers with unique skills and great recharge skill, healers with greater healing abilities...
in my opinion the best way to phase this change would be if each class pedese choose which skils would like to exchange or n skils by awakening
skils including first, second and third class, so one had to give up the skils awakening to stick with the above.
this way to the 8-classes would awake more different from each other would be on account of bild of skils that each player would.
Diverse the classes on the 34 different ones again. Why? Because most of the people who started playing started back when the classes were still unique and I realy loved the diversity in L2. It made it special. Now you actually can play those 6(?) classes. Also the diversity will make those little details again interesting and people will think what will make this class stronger and why from the other one.
Good morning everyone, The lineage2 before awakening was common for everyone, from
change, caused a great impact on the players, the curiosity in the beginning, then it was like in all the radical changes both in a business as in sports or even here in the game. Created insecurity. But the good side is that we have always evolve. Voting in around 34 class because I think it is generally a thrilling game but each player will deepen the study of its class "new" awakened and specifies their knowledge of the ancient and the third class job. If this happens it will be very cool because the player will have the opportunity to unifying their gameplay and develop the game
My opinion:
It will nice, if will still 8 classes, but you can take few NEW skills for etc. 5 new skill for every class.
But not all of this 5 skills, but you can take only 3 skills from them
Something like before Holy Pomander for healers.
So back to the 34 classes would be perfect for me, my Aoere is total crap in my pvp style compared to what was my evas saint.
Coldown sleep 0, Mana Burns, prophecy for nuckers, pasting skills coldown 0, the clarity + 21 has more effect than the current buff before a party rechargaba complete with half the effort required now (now an MP spends nucker faster than what I can cure it) .... Seal of Shillien for physical attacks is a lot stronger than Lumi lvl 85-95,
* if there is a healer in the party and uses celestial about a character, the other healer has to wait one minute before using it. wtf. Some debuffos as SOA stuns in fortune can not be cured, ...
Before you sweating for up to level 80 and use the bubbles to great effect in mass pvp, now all that is in the trash.... and more and more things
In the forum many people say that the 34 classes again requires more work for NCSoft, to my humble opinion, work, work, work, for that to have made these awakenings seems they did not know where they came from characters.
Now they had had a very good idea (at least for me), Lineage II Original skilles with all races and professions. good luck with that!
Tip: Before changing careers, make sure you know they want the players
As mentioned in one of the responses in the survey, the best way to get back to having the gameplay of the previous version to the goddes of destruction, is developers using some of the skills of the 3rd job of each class and deploy them in 4th job so the same is aroused, however some issues is in the air, if modifications are made this way, as will be the main class in this version done after the subclasses, in my case I already have a subclass already awakened and put it as dual class will have some bonus where dual class benefits the main class, thus having a greater diversity and gameplay?
Let me explain: in my main class to 3rd job is Grand Khavatary after awakening to 4th job I transformeri in Tyrr Warrior, which if all goes well will have some benefits attached to my 3rd job, however I have a subclass of Dark Avenger and this subclass is already my dual class and here comes the question I have this or any other subclass her influence with its particular characteristics in my main class, or I use it as dual class, my main class will give some sort of bonus for dual class?
Short answer:
I voted for "other", because I think that in addition to the diversification of the classes, some other things should also be improved in the game.
I will do my best to express the logic behind this statement, for I believe that it (logic) is what matters most in the chosen solution. Not mechanics.
Long answer:
1. When I started playing Lineage 2 Chronicle 3, it was:
Simple
Dark and Medieval
It ran on 1.6 GHz processor and on Gforce 4 videocard
And most importantly I enjoyed "playing" (not gaming) it because
there were much less rules and restrictions
2. Now, all of these things are missing. Instead:
There are many items/quests/sub-quests/class changes/event items/etc./fish/dyes/enchants in the game - way too many for a non-addicted brain to conceive.
Everything is annoyingly colorful, cute and over-painted. (The cougar is cool. The agathions and the new armors are just ugly.)
The game hardly runs on anything different from a NASA spaceship. Let alone the new integrated laptops videocards.
And (again) most importantly:
There are too many rules
3. For those reasons, I propose the things that I believe would improve the Lineage 2 experience:
Diversifying classes to 34 (as planned) but in addition:
removing (in a reasonable period) all left-overs from past events
removing some of the "inconsistencies" with the whole L2 experience (fishing is one example - If somebody could use magic, why on Earth would they go buy a fishing rod? :D)
Improving the visual experience by making less things "shine". (What's the point in having a shiny thing, if everything else shines too?)
adding more, but similar to the old ones, things to explore and removing restrictions to them - New zones are always fun, except when you are not allowed in.
Implementing some of the good ideas, which the other people around here gave.
Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes
Simply... i want to see orc khavatari 4th proof using fighter weapon and skills than need that weapon, or polers using they specific weapon with they specific prof/weap skills, i really miss that =/
I was choosing between option 2 and option 3 and finally I decided to pick option 3 (34 classes), with adding some stipulations.
First, I must say that I really enjoy GOD. When it comes to pure gameplay (not counting community, server politics etc, just pure game mechanics), I have more fun in GOD, than I had in any other chronicle. Thanks to streamlined party structure it's very easy to find or organise a group, and due to unification of classes, no class is left behind (I played Moonlight Sentinel during Interlude-Hellbound-Kamael, so I know, what it means to play a gimped class). That's a good thing.
Bad thing is, that diversity is fun (i.e. having every day a different kind of tank or buffer in your party, and adapting to a different way in which the party works) and now we have it reduced.
So what to do, to keep it easy for everyone to find a party, and leave no class or race behind?
First of all, keep the current party structure. Do not split Aeores into dedicated healer and dedicated recharger. Do not introduce specialized buffers, one buffer in party is enough. Keep the DDs the way so each of them can play with each other. Dedicated nuker parties, archer parties and meele parties were a bad thing, and they should remain history.
Second thing is skills. It is very easy to make one class entirely useless. For instance the difference between pre-god clan rez of cardinal and new awakened mass rez caused, that every serious pvp clan on NcWest servers was openly telling it's members, that if you play a shillen elder or elven elder, and awaken as aeore, you may as well delete your character. This is a serious thing, and you are about to make the same mistake by removing sonatas from Iss Dominator. I can guarantee you, that if you do such thing, noone on NcWest will play Domis.
Similar thing is with elven healers and reduced skill cooldown that you plan for them. Nowadays playing a healer is all about cooldown times and keeping your skills ready. You must make sure, that elven healer will not become too powerful with this change.
New classes should differ in details, but you must make sure, that all crucial skills are equal for all splitted classes, avoid giving them unique debuffs with strong effects etc.
So how to make the classes different and not mess up?
1) Visuals! Yes they are very important. The class must fit player's style not only in terms of gameplay but also look and fell. Give elven summoners their ponies and human summoners their cats for starters. Specific race/class skills can have a visual effect that fit's the race's style too.
2) Don't take anything away from the class but add bonuses that fit the purpose of the class. I.e. are you sure that m. attack bonus for dark elf healer is something, that any healer will dream about? Why not giving him something like blessed blood used to be - this skill was making shillen elders unique in positive way (ok, now we have sustain, but you are the designers, not me, so be creative).
3) Look how players use certain class and what they need, avoid useless bonuses. When I was playing a Moonlight Sentinel, I was always wondering why all good skills always go to Saggitarius. It looked like developers didn't really understand what is purpose of archers and how they work in party, especially in pvp. Avoid this.
4)Speaking abot pvp: focus on it. It really doesn't matter how certain class work for XP, cause finding an xp party is more about player's social skills than about his class. Pvp is another matter, if your class is not the best or not a hero candidate (aka class that noone plays so it's easy to take hero), you will have problems. If you will try to differentiate classes by optimizing some of them for pvp and some for pve, here on NcWest the only ones that will be played, will be pvp ones. Just look at warlord. It was a pve monster, and almost nobody played this class. So give everyone equally powerful, but different pvp bonuses, and as for pve just make sure, everyone can hit mobs.
Edit: Why did I not choose option 2? Because in my opinion option 2 duplicates function of subclass skills (which now are weaker, but can be changed in future). I think, that everyone would choose one, or similar set of skills - as it is with subclass skills - and everyone would be the same again.
That is all, what comes to my mind now. I wish you good luck in making L2 better.
Diversification is necessary, but at the same time, there has to be a balance within the game to avoid any single class from overpowering the others. When they went down to 8 classes...this in effect attempted to reduce this partially (remember the days of Hierophants rocking in oly?).
Why not give out a few race+class specific skills upon awakening, on top of the basic skills gained? IE: Human Prophet gets Skills A/B/C (Active and Passive), while Orc Warcryer would get Skills D/E/F upon awakening. They would both end up as an ISS Enchanter, with all the current skills, but would have a few different/new skills, all based upon their original class.
This would help to diversify without bringing back the 34 original classes, and would go a step in the direction to make a difference between the many different tanks/archers/nukers/etc.
Perhaps even going as far as giving bonuses to specific classes on a rotating schedule server-wide. IE: Human Race bonus Week -- +1 to all stats for Human Characters, +10 to all elements, -5% Cooldown to physical/magic skills. Could be by race/original class/awakened class, and limit it to only outside of Oly/CoC/etc.
Yes, it would create some advantages during certain times, but it would also give a boost to some of the "weaker" classes for a while and encourage active participation, and discourage going the same route for an awakened class (IE: All the billions of Orc ISS Enchanters!).
1st. It looks NC Korea want that change.
Whatever path they follow they gonna do it.
That's why I chose some option for it not just complain.
2nd Why not by 3rd skills.
Currently most of them, are too weak so that would force to make extra changes to make them usefull.
Implementing like 'it is now' would make big boost only for few classes, what had some unique powerful skills, putting all others in VERY bad position.
Increasing efective power of 3rd skills is like opening pandora box.
To try make balance with hounded of 3 rd skills and awaken one...
So far Korean developers has proven, they are able to react and change balance of some 'overpowered' classes/skills. However it was always in delay. Sometimes it was even 1 year.
Waiting even 6 months to 'fix' one error in implementation, letting specific class to dominate, would be bad for game.
3rd Why not by 34 classes.
A year ago I would say - HURREY!
Right now I say - NO
Why?
In short 34 classes with terrible balance ( who was playing NON boxed PP!? or how many pvp summoners we had?!) where 'almost' ok.
We had 1 SwM + 1 SD + 1 Card + 1 ES + 1 Tank + 1 Domi/DC as a base.
then depend on profile of players or small changes in class skills we had pvp setups:
- 2 archers + 1 chicken (to mark)
- 3 nukers
- 2 daggers + 1 chcken (to para)
... and in fact it was all.
Now ... we have combine role of SWM / SD / Domi&DC into 1 ISS
Cool but who going take to party Domi ISS without sonatas?
Yes his debufs maybe will be awesome but how to win battle without DD?
Yes maybe developers do extra changes but still major problem is: we miss 2 ppl in party ...
34 classes and 9 ppl in party was hard to manage but always some classes were find usefull.
Now? Possible we find that SwM Iss is better then SD and Card is better then ES, Iss based on Kamel will be better then other ...
What with those people who not match to 7 ppl party?
Why existing ISS 95+ who could choose any class at 85 suffer so badly?
Maybe, after some changes (let say 3 months!) they will not be usless.
Some even become top class... but what happen to others? And WHY?
Why to put so many efforts, to brake reasonable good balance atm?
And now why races?
I hope to keep current balance between classes.
In fact every DD can be usefull in pvp and iss/tank/healer just are must.
Small add in passive/active skill set should be easy to design to not brake current balance, still giving variety what people like.
P.S. As LE I getting bored to see ALWAYS 1999 cast speed.
Where is mine advantage on other races/class skills when there is no cap on M atak/P attack but I have cast speed is always on max?
Its true that we need our 36 classes back. I worked hard to get my spoiler to 85 and then find out that im a treasure hunter! I thought plunder is worth it, only to find out its a joke.
Do you know?
Spoilers are so useless that if you delete the spoiler class, it wont effect the gameplay at all, because they are not needed anymore!
back in the day 34 classes was too much, players go for the best race on their class. now you can do either...
i dont think ncsoft should do 34 classes like old days... but some tweaks to force users to choose between races should be awesome, just a little tweak.
Some classes/race specific was to good from 40-85. i dont like to see that from 85-99...
My opinion:
It will nice, if will still 8 classes, but you can take few NEW skills for etc. 5 new skill for every class.
But not all of this 5 skills, but you can take only 3 skills from them
Something like before Holy Pomander for healers.
I voted option 2 and i agree with this player.
I think that we have to go in future with this classes, not return in the past.. In my opinion is non sense to return in the past.. I play since Gracia Final and I still like Lineage 2 because in my opinion gameplay is still good. Goddess of destruction update is not bad like all say.. I like to have my Tyrr and i like to use all the fighthers weapons. This add a lot of possibilities for a 4th classed pg.. The only thing that we have to do now, (always in my opinion) is stop to QQ and think at Interlude and start to like this new classes.. Guys open the eyes.. Now is more easy to do a party and finally we have only one buffer.. so no need dances+songs+overlord buff.. and no ponitless classes.. In my opinion now 8 class is perfect, i only would like to have some skill that comes from 3rd class and have a specific passive weapon bonus for the weapon used in my 3rd class. And add name of class at our 4 class so Tyrr dreadnought not tyrr warrior.. But without the 34 classes!! Only the name for understand the kind of bonuses that one have.
Well this change sound good coz a like the awakening 4th class!! but i always askme why only 8 clases... if all charter have diferent skiles that make the diference... maybe u can redistribute all clases and making some diferent... i mean like tank (me) i would like to have more life than dark elf tank... o mi pet !!!:p
i'd rather choose the combination of option 1 and 2 than option 3
by adding up race specific traits and by customizing the awakened class with some of the 3rd class skills based on the race of the character.
it'll be more fun and balance for every character in the game. players will be more attached to the characters they are using and because of being able to customize it. they will be more loyal or attached to it because of its uniqueness to others. by these all skills that each class can gain in awakening should be balanced.
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option three (3) will be more complicated and the players might get disappointed to their character because some of the skills are removed based on the race and characters job.
>for example tyrr losing feral cries because those skills are usually from the Grand khavatari (just like the example given Othell rouges losing the plunder skill because fortune seeker really owns those type of skill.)
Adding up skills to the appropriate class and appropriate race should be done.
there's a lot of skill from every class that is present in a single awakened character. making 34 awakened class and is a good option though but it'll be difficult to balance it again just like the older 3rd class classes made.
i just also want to conclude that if your'e going to choose option 3. please balance each 34 awakened class with differences in their abilities/skills/traits just like the old 34 3rd classes before Goddess of destruction.
think more deeply and reliably. study the Pros and cons and what may it cause to the flow of the game.
After 8 yrs of play I was severely disappointed with the forced transition to an Awakened class that was so very different from my Hell Knight. NC Soft didn't drop the ball in this regard, they kicked it out of the park and told all the players to go fetch.
The multitude of NC West players were not even given the courtesy of a PTS to play with and experience the changes.
While the fast tracking and general decrease in the idiotic grind that is Lineage 2 are very welcome changes it seems little to no thought was put into the actual game play surrounding these modifications, as anyone who has spent time trying to complete Daily Quests can well attest.
Smashing 34 unique play styles back down into 8 because you do not feel like putting the effort required to properly balance game play for all your creations is inexcusable. Had you simply wiped the servers and told every to start fresh with GoD would have been far kinder then they was NC Korea forced the Awakening up us.
If you have to work tirelessly day after day, week after week to correct the problems you implemented then so be it...
We the players built this game into what it is and you NC Korea have consistently ignored the NC West contingent thank you for finally enabling us the opportunity voice our opinions in a more constructive manner then the general rant and rave we pour out on these forums.
Give me my Hell knight back! The way it stands now there is absolutely no point in the 3rd class change. The transition from 3rd to Awakened can be done in as little as a few days of extreme grind, or a month or so of regular play. That play style is completely thrown out the window upon Awakening.
As it stands now the Sigel Knight is just a stripped down, mashing of all four tank classes with common higher power level cookie cutter skills. If i had wanted to play the same class as everyone else I never would have completed my second class change and just stayed as a Human Knight.
If you NC Korea do not want to correct your mistakes with the implementation of the Awakening process then remove the second and 3rd class changes as well. Why diversify into 34 classes which play so much different from the Awakened classes and then force it back upon us.
If you truly want to fix this recreate all the original 34 3rd class characters, create new and/or improved skill for these classes up to level 99. BUT give us the player the option to Awaken OR NOT...
I really believe that my lvl 85 Hell Knight would slaughter an equivalent lvl Awakened character **** If given the same Awakening stat boosts. Why can my character not be given the Power of the Giants but not Awaken???
Scale the 3rd classes appropriately with the Awakened classes implement positive and negative reasons for Awakening OR NOT. Perhaps Awakened characters have higher regen stats, run faster or 15% more HP, MP. But consider by choosing Not to Awaken the character receives other racial/class/deity based bonuses.
For example: Dwarves receive blessings of Maphyr, 35% increase in HP/CP, 50% increase in resistance to fire and earth attacks etc.
NC Korea has choosen only one small side (Lore wise) in the fight against Shilien for the GoD update. Did the other Gods not fight against Shilien as well? Perhaps you can consider equivalent process for characters that choose to stay Loyal to their God and not bow down to the Giants.
I know it will be hard to remake every class previously in-game with awakening power but you you never disappointed me with any update (ok the wynn nerf was a bit meh) you always bring something awesome to the table, bring those 34 classes back!
You have a hard game to balance, too many variables ^^ that hits faster, this hits harder, that barely hits but his kitten does the job for him, etc.. but you can do it, I trust you... and by the looks of this pool, most people think like me, every class has it's subtleties and uniqueness but every class excels at something, and that's what got me deep into this game. (that and the dwarfs dance, don't ever change that.)
For my idea of a change on getting back those 34 classes into this new awakening system, I was thinking about revamping some of the old skills, like upgrading visually and of-course retouching the numbers of the previous skills (you know not EVERY skill, I'm sure some of the old skills were obsolete at some point you just spammed Death Spike and curses as a necromancer for example) and bring those core skills back to your awakening class, fully reworked. Since I started Necromancer as my example we could add, I don't know.. I remember they had a really cool skeleton, bring that guy back too, now bigger and beefier ready to incur all of that damage being thrown at you. And on top of that, why not add some new putrid, full of death and sorrow new skills? You guys have the talent, make it happen! ^_^
i choose the option 3. i think awakening now is to shot, and the division of 34 classes, will give the game that magic that he has when the 4 class didnt exist.
i have other option for u! can u just leave classes as they are now? it's almost 1 year that GoD lunched! ppl have reached 99 or are 95+ and they like their class! why to change classes now after all this time? for example i have feoh wizard and i like him as it is now! i don't need any change and i can see the racial difference on racial exclusive passives as well as stats (int/wit/men)! i'm making my dual class iss because i like that class as it is also! changing something after all this time it's fail! that's my opinion!
The answer to the question "What changes should we make that will best restore class balance and uniqueness among the Awakening classes?" is ofcourse the 3rd poll option of divide back to 34 classes.
This would create the higher diversificaton among the other choices.
My suggestions are:
A)Make the 4th class a continuation of the 3rd class, as it has been until now the 1st class for the 2nd and the 2nd for the 3rd. Meaning a 4th class player will be able to exchange the majority of his/her skills for the awakened ones that we allready know. Make a few of 2nd/3rd class skills untradeable but at the same time re-work/upgrade them to fit the GoD content. This would result in a relative autonomy of the player to choose the build of his/her class, instead of come up with a pre-fix set of skills.
For example, let Sigels be able to exchange all their common 2nd/3rd class and keep the upgraded version of some class unique skills. A Shillien Templar could choose to keep Spirit of Shilien and Phantom Cubic, while
a Sigel Eva Templar Eva's Will.
That would result to a balanced version of new classes since they would share the basic skills/traits to fulfill their role, but on the same time the player will have the option to specialize his/her class at will. In the future you could add class specific skills or upgrade in general common shared skills between same classes.
About the Cons of that option:Keep the old content and its' uniqueness along all the new content. The 8 awaken classes could not co-exist with new ones, simply because the new 34 would be more powerfull than the 8 ones. Loosing skills like Plunder would result in gaining new.
B)About the division of enchanters/buffers that could create un-balance or exclusion from party play. My idea is a continuation of the above, but the new enchanters could be didvided into 2 categories.Enchanters with specified buffs for Mage and enchanters with specified buffs for Fighters. Again, all enchanters will share a large number of common skills/buffs to be able to play the role into every party formation, but players would have the chance to advance their experience in PvP and PvE also.
For example mixed parties (Fighter along with Mage) could be joined from 2 enchanters (mage specified/fighter specified). But there would be the choice to form a 100% fighter party or mage party (PvP or PvE) and then they could be supported from 1 specified
enchanter for such party formation. Meaning buffs design for Mage/Fighter use only.
Example: ISS Blade Dancer will have party buffs as melodies/harmonies/sonatas but extra buffs design exclusive for fighters. So this class won't be excluded but it can be more preferable in some ocassions.
PS.About the Stone of Destiny and the restrictions that can generate, i don't believe that a Dwarf crafter, if had the chance to become an Awaken Warsmith would choose to awaken as summoner. People leveled up from 1-85 their beloved class/race no matter their weak spots of them. Of course in GoD their is no Warsmith Giant, but for other classes it won't be bad to be restricted, no matter how they used the Destiny Stone.
Now that i have voted and cannot change my vote. I one thing im most worried about is that My Iss will go back to some form of Prophet where no one will want to party with them because ( warcryer) Iss will be better in some way (again). My last 5 lvl from 80 to 85 were hell on me I couldn't get party from Clannies ,friends or randoms because Pp buffs were "slow and just not as good as other buffer" (I quoted from other players ) and soloing was something you could hardly do (Because of Poor attack skills).
My only wish that if this does happen you improve a ISS attack so there Damage goes up and I don't mean equal to everyone else just enough so they don't have spend 2 min killing a mob that can be one shotted buy many other classes (Eg my fully buffed Iss while using skills as done as little damage to a mob as 27 hp and the most ive seen is 7089 hp) now all im asking for is that the min damage goes up. Now i know you are going to say Iss are a support toon but this may shock some of you but some times they have to solo hunt.
The 34 class system of Lineage 2, is a big part of what made the game so unique and different (and successful). It gives personality to the game, a characteristic that should be kept like a treasure, because following the lore is really important, the backround, the history of Elmoreden, the Mythology.
While it's true, that it's easier to balance 8 classes, it's not what Lineage 2 is about. There are 6 races, each race has its history and backround, it's really sad to make them one. I always wonder, so many programmers, so much work, but not love! Give some love to this game, keep it alive and well... Is it so difficult to make a balanced game, while keeping its uniqueness?
I must admit though, that this opportunity to express our opinions, is really good, and really gives me hope, that the game will become more enjoyable, right now it's not bad... but it's cold. It's just another game, something standard.
I want a more lore-oriented game, therefore I want the races and classes to stay faithful to their origins. I want the fiery sorcerors of the human race, the ancient and delicate elven sorcery, the dark and ominus winds of the dark elven race.
I wish everything goes alright for the game, the community and the upcoming experiences and new members that will hopefully enjoy a Lineage 2 game, equally exciting with the Golden age (prelude-interlude... at least for me)!
I think the option of returning to the 34 classes would cause mess, I'm kamael yul archer and I like bow than crossbow, and if we return to the 34 classes maybe that ends, as convenient without causing much change Diversify through race-specific traits for the Awakening class and choosing what 3rd class skills to keep, would also help improve the skills of awakening as they are terrible in comparison with previous.
dwarfs, both classes should be able to do crafting and spoil, so it would not be necessary to make the two dwarfs and one race could choose one you like. Kamael sub should be able to choose any race, I find it really stupid that they can not almost discriminant xD and finally if it turns to the older classes could not hurt more as create other dwarf mages, orcs or kamael summoners, would be fun xD aah also It would be good to create sites for leveling alone as before, now if you don't have a group is impossible to level up.
I am an old member of lineage 2 that left the game because of this (and other reasons). But for me the most eficent way to make a fun, balaced and enjoyable way to play and restore the classes system of the old lineage 2, is to instead of having, for example, 1 class for all mages a few diferent clases related from the old aweaking class. Here is an exaple of what i mean:
Human Mage---Human Wizard----Sorcerer----Archmage----Feoh Wizard?? NOO!
Feoh Wizard can be divided in 4 diferent clases like: Fire Master, Water Mage, Air Stormer and Earth Wizard (names can change, this is only an example).
Each of this class can have a unique role for asisting, dealing damage, tanking (wtf a mage tanking?? YES!), debuffing, etc. But with the characteristics of a mage. You will think, but if i can tank with a mage why tanks exist in this game?
Im not telling that you will replace a tank with a mage, no. Think of a being a mage but with more defensive skills than others mages. You will stay being a mage but with more defence than the other mage classes.
(Resume: Instead of having 1 class option for your final class tranfer, you can have a few respecting of what you were in your 3rd class)
Another Example with healers:
Are you tired of just healing, healing, healing and healing. Well i suggest of doing somthing like this: (this is only an exaple)
Insted of having an Aeore Healer you can have 3 diferent final classes like this ones:
-Necro Healer: A healer with dark magic that can support by healing and can deal more damage than other healer classes.
-Divine Healer: A healer with light magic that can heal huge amounts of hp and apply mini buffs to allies (mini buffs are like Boons in guild wars 2)
-Mana Helaer: A healer with a big quantity of MP. This class can steal MP from enemies and use it to support allies. Moreover, can have skills that heal mp from allies or something like that.
See that each of the healer classes that i showed to you have a diferent type of role in the game and a healer would be more enjoyable to play than the old healer.Also you have to think that the haler will continue being a healer but with a unique system.
Another awesome thing about this system is that 2nd & 3rd classes can teach you how to use the class and then in your 4th class tranfer you will decide wich type of class you are good to play with and wich you will enjoy the most.
Well I hope somone of the staff can have the time to read this post and send me a Private Message telling me in what im wrong and i will try to improvise the system. Remember that this is just a simple option to give an idea.
Continuing my other post, i would like to add this:
Race unique skills, this may cause more job all the staff of L2 but can be a great system to make sence why there are different types of races in the game.
My proposal is to, instead of all the races having the same skills for all the classes, it can change by changing the most important skills of the class depending of the race. Here is an example:
Like in the last post I did, it shows that a Necro Healer deal more damage than other healer, so if that class has a skill that do damage, a Dark Elf could do 400 damge but a Elf can do 200 damage and a 2 second stun with the same skill.
See, that little changes can make a race being unique.
You can also change the skill animation depending on the race, this can make a best experience in the game.
You can also apply this system to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd class.
Dear Development Team,
Before GOD I was playing for long time for Phoenix Knight (although I played before for DA as well). And really liked to play this class. Now I am voting for 34 classes as want to have obviously something like PK back, and want to see greater diversity in classes.
However doing so (back to 34 from Awakened classes) it is very important and I think not easy to keep the balance. In my view in the previous cronicles at lvl 85 we almost had it (at least between tanks :) )
As an example PK had Angelic Icone + OE Sacrifice + Phoenix to offset atacking/debuff skills of HK with it's Pantera and Elf's cubics power. Now all classes got Knight Frenzy (replaced PK's Angelic Icon), so by addinig back Pantera to HK and Cubics to Els, and keeping Knight frenzy for all without adding Sacrifice and Phoenix (that what I red) you will get imbalance between tanks on olympiad.
So, please make as many tests as possible to make sure that5th prof classes are balanced and people by selecting their quazy "old" classes really enjoy the game instead of posting replies everywhere that again and again NSOFT failed and they did not get what was expected.
The old class system has some sentimental value for most of us, but balancing them properly is very hard. Figuring out really diverse, and useable skills for them is also big issue.
My approach (really rough, but has the basic idea):
Keep a skill from 3rd class as described in option one, but only one. A reminder from old days.
And:
Make a set of skills for each awakened class at every 10 level after awakening . Between these levels all class member gets the same skills.
At these specific levels players can learn one skill from the set. Some of these skills are learnable by any class member, some of them race specific. This way players decision wich path he/she walks. Be diverse, or be more common. Balancing is easier, because there is less skill than in a 34 class system.
Plus:
Can be variated by sub/dual class, for example for a human sigel can open dark elf skills of this set for the main, if he/she levels at least 1 dark elf subclass to 80 and selects one other dark elf class as dualclass.
Anyhow, its cool, that you asking the players,an i hope at the end you'll get the answers you need to improve the game.
people can level anything if they want to, all balancing issues should focus like 95% around PVP/olympiad
I played a prophet, the most useless class for 5 years. I found a way to level it. I also leveled an OL and a BH to 85.100 all by hand... people have forgotten how to get creative in their exping. Now I play an 96 ISS without BR without using NCCoins or having a CP.
Exping is not and has never been difficult. Those of you who complain about it for any class are bad.
The 3rd solution will obviously be the best, as GoD was the worst update ever, because it simplified L2 pvp into something more like WoW. I think most ppl would agree that the simplified class system was one of the worst moves NC ever made. In addition, maybe it would be a good idea to raise the party limit to 8 or 9 again. Otherwise it will be kind of like the old class system, with the new party system - it just won't really work well.
It is a bad idea however, to allow people to "choose" what class to re-diversify into. For example, you will end up having 85% of the server be the one race of every single class that is "best." It will pretty much completely kill off certain classes, and will basically nullify the entire diversification that is the entire point. If someone rolled a SR -> Moonlight Sentinel -> Yul Archer, it's only logical that they stay the Elf Yul Archer... not be able to chose DE/Human/kamael skills. That's just absurdly stupid. People knew exactly what classes they were making when they made them, so they should have to stick with their choices. Also, making 30+ heroes again sounds like a great idea. 8 Heroes are almost so insignificant that people do not even pay attention to them anymore. If our population had 1000 people sieging like it is supposed to, people would not care about 8 heroes at all.
The imbalance was fine, finding out the best classes/combinations was a large part of the fun of L2. But it would not be fun if on Day 1, you have the entire server choosing one class. It's a process that takes months/years.
Oh, but don't bring 70 second nuker fear back, please. Everything else is fine.
Voted Option 3: Diversify by Dividing the Awakened Classes into 34 Classes
(Class variants)
The unique thing that separate Lineage2 from other MMORPG is the big variants of classes, players can choose from.
Which is why, it’s so successful over the years, as this promote diversification and different type of gameplay and styles.
With the new expansion (GOD), it brought back a lot of player (New & Old)
But things started to change, and player started to leave the game after 2 to 3 months.
Players start to realise that instead of the traditional branching out of classes
Ncsoft opted to consolidated and make the class fields smaller, thus make things much simpler.
When the stucture of gameplay get simple (especially in-term of skills combo), interest start to go down-hill.
Also with the consolidation of classes, there’s no requirement of 9 members party.
1 ISS in the party is sufficient. Long gone is the time you need specific class like Blade Dancer, Sword singer, Prophet..etc
With lesser member party system, players with frens and clannie got lesser chance to play in a bigger group.
This is 1 of the major flaw, that needs to be look into.
My English is bad so this s Publications Translation courtesy of google: D English Indian
for me there are a few points that should be made incident to recapture users, which llevaraian much work.
1.each race has to be more differentiated, not everyone can be just one human warrior tyrR not one orc or a dwarf, let alone one that kamael; dagger elf man is not black or white elf; Tanke can not be compared a tank black or white elf or human. should be differentiated and have their heroes popios by race and class. k skils besides differentiate them even being all awakening
I probably already said this in an older reply to this thread, but I voted on the second option.
My reasons for doing so, are as following.
1. Today, you just need to find out which awakened class you want, and then select the class that gets from 1 to 85 the fastest way (ISS is warcryer/OL because they drain MP when killing).
2. I have a Warsmith that is a Tyrr, but after i made it 85, I really didn't see any point in leveling it, since the market is flooded with TW/Seraph/Eternal from daily instances. The only reason to have a crafter, is to make what little adena you can on crafting/selling R grade shots to the players that dont just make a new level 40 character to get 200k free SS / 100k Bsps...
- Means that crafters will be obsolete and nobody wants to level them higher than 85. both classes (warsmith and bounty hunter) are also often just leveled to mid A grade for the quadruple weight limit, and then only used as sale shops. most often, people just do the 1st class transfer and then use them, since they get double weight at level 20 or so.
3. A tank is always nice to have, and I made a paladin because I feel that it is a better choice than the other tanks (more party minded than the other tanks). After awakening it, I saw that I should just have taken the DE tank, since it levels alot faster... There is absolutely no difference what so ever. Well, there is a difference, but it is only cosmetic. Human, dark elf or light elf...
4. Mages were once something you should fear. today, all you need to do, is pack earth, fire and wind resistance and you have nothing to fear.
- Back in the time when I started playing (C2), all classes were in perfect balance. Ofcourse there were some minor things that was made better in C3, but after that, not so much.
- A major problem with the mage class, is the necromancer. if you were split between making a nuker or a summoner, you made a necro. superior in all ways. kick *** summons 40+/76+, nuke (spike), transfer pain and vampiric claw. Could level solo against all kind of mobs. high resist physical ment you would nuke them and high resist magic would mean the use of your summon, and I still remember using cursed man to to kill mobs in hot springs with 3 or 4 hits...
I could go on and on about all 34 classes, but that would be one long post, and I am sure that most people who once enjoyed the differences on the classes, will agree with me, when I say that the game should let you start at level 85, since the only contribution you can do to a clan (or anything else, for that matter) is level up inside an academy for clan reputation.
Splitting them up into all 34 classes, might be a task that is going to ruin the game, before it is set properly. it could also mean that people will play specific classes as dwarves more often, for their specialized skilltree...
But to be honest, I lean more to the idea of added a few 3rd class specific skills to make your class unique, rather than removing the entire awakening path.
Once could also wish for 3rd class skills only, but you would still learn all the current passive awaken skills + 3 active awaken skills.
34 classes was, in my opinion, one of the better features of Lineage 2, every race and every class had some pros and some cons (well some class had more cons..) and all those differences made the game more enjoiable. now with just 8 classes lot of competition has lost.
So, i hope we ll come back to 34 classes; a suggest, try to introduce for the 4th class more skill connected with the race characteristics ( i mean ghost sentinel with lot of skill with dark power or vampire bonuses)
or in other way dev can:
add more race unique skills (more passive or maybe some active) and make 24 classes, 3 class brach (with unique skills and role) for every awakened class
From my point of view, you guys forgot the basics of this game. I know that the game ws in need of BIG changes to keep up with other games. But you forgot 1 simple fact about the classes. A tank is a tank and a healer is a healer. This was the only fact that I hoped you wont change it, but you've done it after all.:mad: It is very annoying to see for example an enchanter to keep up in dmg and life pts with a tank. The story about class diversification is just stupid. Excuse me but if you want diversification between classes do this:
1. Remove all custom things like stone of destiny and dual class change
2. Bring back the old 34 classes
3. Keep the skills of Paladin for example only for Paladin and so on.
Shortly ... you should bring back the old structure of the classes in the game, and keep like 50% of the new structure of the classes.
I saw you guys were talking about pride of each player had for his class. Well ... Some years ago on a private server, I was 1 of the best Duelists ever existed on the server... Now there is no pride for any class you pick cuz in a PVP party or Epic RB party you no longer have in need some of the classes. The game is not made to play solo, is made for friends and so on.
And now? how many people you need to do the raid ? Like less than half of that comand channel I guess.
I hope you got my idea about the class diversification structure and game change. There where players that had a love for the suport classes like healer/recharger/dancer/singer etc etc. Now all can be what they want, when they want, so the entuziasm for the game is lost day by day.
Only 1 simple fact. Like 95% of the people that was in that ally, stoped playing the game since GoD lanched due to the classs structure changes and custom things like stone of destiny/Element T-shirts/ Jedi items look and so on.
We all know that you want the best gameplay for us, but please do not forget from where you started.
I'd rather play Lineage II - Prelude -> Interlude than GoD :rolleyes:
without a doubt vote on the 34 classes option!!! im pretty much sure it would revamp the gameplay again because when people atm are pretty much choosing race by the looks and not by the diversaty!!! GoD isnt actually a bad update in my opinion or i wouldn't be playing it, but L2 took a course that originally wasnt ment to be, when u are a human, u will get some advantages and some incovinients, when you are a orc, goes pretty much the same deal! once i remember trying the human tank, and then tried the DE tank, and i was so amazed by the diference on the classes that had to choose one of em... now i just choose the skin (imo its very wrong because i wont get any diversaty!)... same goes to the all other races... it was so cool to watch for instants the way a warcryer buffed, and then a prophet... now its just not that good... its all the same... and besides, i dont really like the way the races completly lost the identity! hate the fact that my dwarf has the same skills that any other tank and knowing i really cant get a char to my own playing style, and know that a party will pretty much always have the same configuration give or take it, makes me really confuse! back in the old days people would choose a doomcryer for a meelee pt and a dominator for and AOE mage pt! L2 was ment to be a game where u could choose alot of ways... now u can only choose 8 :( its really bad, besides giving oly a "old revamp" where u would get lots of classes to fight with would really balance the game a lil more! and plz, i play L2 not only because i like the game but because i like the looks! the graphics are the best there out there for a MMORPG so yeah... diversaty + graphics + gameplay is the way to go!!
I'm all for diversify. This new 8 class system makes no sense. I mean, l2 always was about big number of classes to chose from, since there's few ways to customize your character (no skill trees, limited stat changes and elemental options) so you could at least choose from bug number of classes for one that best fits your desired play-style. I have nothing against changes, but this wasn't fair one. While we gained 8 absolutely new classes, we lost 35 old ones and it isn't good, since that shows there's absolutely no plans for this game and development of it is totally unpredictable. Seriously, just look at that. We have 8 new classes that has absolutely nothing in common with former 35, which is a complete absurd. Why to create so many classes in first place then? I mean, there are things that cannot be changed so drastically like this. I understand developers motives for doing so, but it was done really wrong. And about that pool i kinda have mixed feelings. While it proves that there's no set direction for l2, it's good that players actually can by some degree affect it.
"Divide the 8 current Awakening classes back into 34 classes".
In order to accomplish this you would have to change the preset race stats/skills system . Currently we have 8 classes, but with the Stone of Destiny we have 48 possible results with the 6 races. Some of which are greatly favored in battle over its alternative. If we were to add the new 34 class system we would have 6 races with 204 possible combinations.
I propose assigning race skills/stats to the class you choose.
I dont agree by dividing into 34 classes. Why? Because the game would have only 2 class tranfer. How? Because at your first class tranfer you have 2 or 3 options, then at your 2nd class tranfer you have 2 options, but then at your 3rd and 4th you have 1 option only so is like and extanded 2nd class tranfer. You choose your path until lvl 40 but then you will have only 1 path.
So I prefer if instead of having 1 class option for each class you can have 3 or 4 to decide your finall path. If not your finall decition will be at lvl 40 and then is always the same class but with more things.
I voted other. Specifically I am voting for NO change. Yes, I miss the diversity of the L2 I started playing 5 years ago, but that game no longer exists and I don't think it ever will.
There is a conflict in intent between diversity and balance. Foolishly people want both and are disappointed when they get neither. Making a game perfectly balanced is easy. Consider Checkers and Chess. 1 class, all players start at max level with maxed gear and skills. No diversity at all. It's only a question of player skill, leadership for groups, communication within the parties. This change would get rid of 99% of current players and all the bots and adena spammers, so it's not totally negative to the game.
Diversification. Well maybe. Before there were certain classes which were needed at certain levels for parties. All others go away. Getting those toons in those classes to the level they were desired was the problem of the fool who was trying to do that class. There were 34 classes but most were not wanted. The change of party size from 9 to 7 eliminated the possibility of afk leveling any undesirable classes. You solo or duo or bot or play with a friend if you can. I expect the return of 34 classes at 4th CC to be a disappointment. Will wait and see.
I use a translator because my English is not very good :D
I chose the option 3er : Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes
Because?
I think it is very simple to me and to all the players L2 or most of us like it was before 34 classes, 34 heroes, all classes with their advantages and disadvantages, they were all different, with different skilles.
also to take more classes there are more variety of game, and also help balance the game, for example: the Tyrr Warrior expert in aoe , warriors who are coming from Dreadnought or Titan , in the archers always clear differed elves and dark elves by ATK. spd and p.critical, also was the same in the daggers
I also believe that more open landscape game in the sense 1v1 or 1vsALL as before
because said it? pvp is always now party vs party , before it was totally different, were PVPS of 1v3 or 2v5 and you could win , now if you do that you have more chances to lose than to win and that as I take a little spirit to the game, now they are all unwilling to fight, nothing can surprise the classes now, because they are 8 and know you can do each.
However if they were 34, always come out with something new as it was before.
In short if they return to the 34 classes the game more fun, everyone will have more chances to be a hero and l2 will return to do what was the best game I met in my life
I wish the 34 class based system was brought back, it was probably the main feature that got me hooked to L2.
I realize that it is a colossal task to perfectly balance that many classes but think about how great it was a couple years ago to have for example 3 magi of 3 different races completely different from one another based on elements those magi relied upon, or even a few more year back when, I believe, there were a couple skills the magi had which needed the seeds of the others to be cast. Or the need to create a dwarf to gather material, or get the spoiler on subclass, but just a dwarf could craft, or just an orc could be dominator and so on.
Indeed some classes were less needed than others in groups, but there were and still are specific hunting grounds for archetypes(archers, magi, etc)
Bringing back the 34 classes is certainly the most complex way to go, but since you added it as an option you certainly have some ideas how to make it work and in time you certainly will as you did it before. I can only imagine how grand it could be to have all those different classes back again with their different skills, spells and buffs, different roles to play in a small group or in a large epic raid.
Now the only thing we need back are the Necropolises and the Catacombs, everyones favorite hunting grounds :P
The poll clearly shows the voice of the Lineage 2 people. Bring back the 34 classes and allow that diversity to be present. There isn't much more to say on that matter.
Initially, I was going to answer with Option 3. Then I realized that it won't give me my beloved Eva's Saint back.
What skills do I miss the most on my healer? It's Trance, Mana Burn, Turn Undead, Wind Shackle. All were highly enchanted, all were 2nd class skills (so, the Option 2 is obviously not an option to bring them back), and all were adding the fun of playing my class. Then all were made useless by the changes in the game design.
Let's look at Trance, for example:
A good PvE skill for crowd-controlling multiple threats in a single-target party... what? a single-target party? Do they really exist anymore? And even if they do, do they need crowd control?
Or a good PvE skill to interrupt mobs' skills... what? You say you can recognize, target and interrupt mobs' skills when they are cast in all that AoE mess, with lots of flashy animations and huge adds obstructing your targets? Then you must be a pr0, nolifer or/and a bot! :rolleyes:
The diversity of classes is lost not just because of the lack of diversifying skills. It's the generic diversity of use cases, roles, scenarios in the game what is lacking. The game was "streamlined", the content was dumbified, the diversity of party actions was cut, the classes were hammered down into the holes of their very limited fixed party role slots. In High Five you could see a moderately equipped robe user serving (at the same time) as a puller, a crowd controller, a debuffer, an occasional DD and an occasional (but the only) healer for a single-target party in an endgame location (LoA), and still this concept is completely alien to the whole "Awakened" world of GoD. You would think that Awakening should have allowed you to experience a richer gameplay on your awakened toon, wouldn't you? You would be wrong :(
Now, if the developers want to bring back the diversity of the classes, just adding some different small variations of some "awakened" or even "3rd class" skills to different classes won't work. The only result would be that most classes would become unwelcome into constant parties. If you really want to diversify the game, you need to diversify the content first. In PvE part of the game it means: think out the solo locations, the duo locations, the locations for parties with 4-5 players, 7 players, 9 players, single-target locations, AoE locations, locations with benefits to defensive setups, locations with benefits to offensive setups, locations for soaking damage, locations for crowd control, locations for mob avoidance etc.; then envision the party setups and skillsets beneficial for such diversity of gameplay, distribute the skills fairly among the classes... and don't forget to balance the locations for the amount of XP and resources they give (except for a limited amount of locations that give better XP and need to be contested; still don't forget to diversify them). And then you will need to balance PvP... tough luck.
Good day. Despite a bit of work that will cause them, I will present my opinion.
The habilidadse the version I liked best were the Goddess of Destrution "combos" (in my language) - those skills that appear when the target is lying on the ground or being levitated. I think that is where one must invest That is: modernity of the Goddess and the essence of Lineage II!
It is the following:
- Maintain eight heros is priority
- Diversify the classes and races maintaining a relationship with the third job, example:
* Awakening Tyrr Warrior Class / Race: Male Kamael: Doombringer / when the "combo" is activated it creates the possibility of using the skill Mass Disarm (Disarms nearby enemies for 5 seconds)
You can put different skills, thus will not create imbalance if players choose the same abilities permanent, because the abilities are used randomly (or chosen) during the fight.
Classes that not contain the "combo" may contain Replacing current skills, example: Iss enchanter / Assault Rush skill instead of inflicting stun, inflict something That makes it Possible to use the "combo" ... after him (combo) is on, you can use the third job skills while is active.
With that we value the expertise of each third job.
* It will be great to have a Doombringer Tyrr warrior in your party in a siege for example, Mass Disarm leave many without weapons! This generates a pride in tyrr, and still have connection with the third job.
keep in mind that character balance is the opposite of diversification...
i'm in favor of diversification but i think that "Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes" that seems the most correct way to do this, but some people haven't choose their character's class pre-awaken, for example all people that have choosen a class change by stone of destiny, in which class of pre-awaken system they where will be placed?
i think the 8 awaken class are good with some deep diversification...
some ways can be, adding some powerful skill PvP/PvE that depends by your previous class, and some by the race, like current ones but more decisive when you choose a new character to build (for example: before GoD, Clarity for EE or Empower for SE)
for further diversification maybe, some stat points could be obtained at certain level, for raise STR, DEX, CON, etc. that we can add where we want :D
first time i saw 8 class i though that party capacity was increased to 8...this can be another good change (party solidarity buff make more sense) :)
i started playing L2 during C3 when having a 70+ toon was considered leet, i agree with many here, game has become easier then it once was and now everyone can have an 85+ toon easy, but thats a good thing, the main merit of L2 has always been the endgame pvp/sieges i know thats what made me return, changing the easiness of leveling will only make leveling a subclass a lot harder for people, and discourage many from playing.
having 34 unique classes is what gave lineage 2 its edge, but il agree in the case of healers and buffers creating 1 class for all of them was a good idea, as it used to be a pain to have to find a certain class for a certain buff.
now with the dps classes the variety was awesome, with the awakening class changes many of these dps classes lost their uniqueness all melee non rogues became tyrr warriors, which in my opinion made the fact that whether you decided to play a duelist or a dreadnought meant nothing as as soon as they hit 85 they would have the same skills, same with hell knights and phoenix knights, the onyl way to solve this would be to have a few skills that carried over from each original class in the awakening process, making each class somewhat unique after that point, this could be done with all classes.
now for the issue with only having 8 hero classes compared with 34 before, you can now compete in olympiad from level 75 - 99, why not have a split and have 2 levels of heroes set the olympiad requirement to 85 and then have ranges from 85-92 & 93 - 99, there will then be 2 hero slots for each class but the olympiad rewards would be different depending on the bracket the player is hero of
However, all three options have their Pros and Cons, the "soul" of Lineage 2 has always been diversity. That aspect is what made me fall in love with the game when I first started 7 years ago. As mentioned before diversity gives some amount of purpose, or meaning, to one's character and that person will more likely be motivated to continue their hard work to get to the top of the food chain. This isn't World Of Warcraft or some other silly MMO where everyone is essentially the same (within their classes/group roles), save for a few class traits. Diversifying the 4th class change will ultimately add a "new" and exciting way to interact in pve or pvp. However, the diversity may cause trouble with unbalanced races/classes. It may take some time, but the balance will come should this option be selected and implemented. It happened over time before and it will happen again. No party will solely rely on "I need a Tyrr or an Othell.." etc. Instead they can try to find new strategies to take down a boss or participate in large scale pvp.
While looking to the past is not always ideal, the past is still the foundation and if something changes too much, it is no longer that same thing. Lets revive Lineage 2's "soul".
I vote for 34 class awakaned. Because Lineage 2 had two diferences with other games.
The First is an open PvP. There is not WvW, PvP Servers... Not. Lineage 2 allow players kill other players and gain a chaotic state. Very nice.
The second is the diversification. With awakening PvP is restricted to 8 class with special racial. There is not enought.
Two players with same awakening and diversification = Awakening Class + Dyes + Augmentation + SA + Skills from 3rd class + atributes = A great pvp diferent between same characteres for example 2 aeroes healers.
We need enjoy PvP. It's not Aion, it's not Guildwars 2... It's Lineage 2 with open PvP ;)
Just make a new division for each awakening class to get 16 classes awakened, If I am a Tyrr Warrior make me choose 2 paths, maybe ones with older 3th class skills but again 34 classes are too much, make race differences is too small and after become awakening all classes are worthless better to get 2 paths for each one of the 8 classes we have now or at least 3 paths to become 24 but 34 is too much.
well.. awakened classes is good. no need get sws wc bd train on back for people who like solo play. but for example all who change their 3rd class to awakened can get 2 or 3 items to learn any skills they want from 3rd prof (any prof skills, just small restriction on elves race) something like with healers when they finish 3rd prof quest.
and just a bit nerf mages. because those debuffs what they can cast on non flagged chars hurts.. death breath and than skill when mage put you in the air.. don't know how that skill called... :cool:
For me, the current system fix some issues that the previous one had. One of those issues, maybe the most important, is that some classes were not played or if played there was a little amount of them in the general population.
Currently you will see a dwarf playing his/her character solo or in a party without problems. Even players who loved to the warlord play style can still do so right now, but also they can change their play style if they want without rerolling depending of the situation.
The current system gives you that liberty, at least in most cases.
As some people had written before me, a character in L2 needs at least:
- Be needed in a group (pvp and pve)
- Being able to solo (1v1 and/or 1vmany)
Right now, this is happening with all characters and races. So, break this will mean that again there will be some classes that a few people will play not because they don't like them, is cause they like to win and those classes are not near to the other in terms of pvp.
The Diversify of the classes is ok, is something that could add something interesting in the game, but we need to keep the good things we currently have.
The first option, "Diversification through Race-Specific Traits for the Awakening Class", add a static change based on race, and IMHO that is not what we need because is more of the same we have right now. And if we need a diversification of the classes, that choice will not give us the most appropriate solution. In fact, like I said, will do nothing new because right now we have some kind of diversity of classes based on some races skills.
The third option, "Diversify by Dividing the Awakened Classes into 34 Classes", could break all the good things we have right now. One of them and the more important is the good balance of the roles and the party system. There will be some classes and roles that you will not want in a pvp party, and the same may apply in a pve party.
Of course you may have some specific type of parties, like archer parties or wizard parties. And that is not bad at all, but we can have more bad things that good from that change. Also that change could mean that a lot of thing that now are could change in the future.
Another different option could be better ,yes. But if I think about it, that could transform L2 into a different game that we have right now. Because you basically will compare this game with the features of another, and that is not the right point of view we need to have (IMHO). To do that we need to think what is the best we can choose to improve the game, not make another game that could lead to possible unbalanced situations.
In my opinion the best option of the three is the second one, "Choose 3rd Class Skills to Keep for the Awakening Class". Because we can keep the current balance, and in the same way you will have the liberty to take a few skills from a pool of your 3rd class. In that case you can boost your character, complement your play style or add another way to enjoy the game with your character.
And also this change will not change dramatically the power balance with the current hero system, in fact this could improve the entertainment in the Olympiads.
One thing that I have not seen is what will happen with the items a charcater has right now, with this option the change will not cause any problem with current items that players have in their characters. (again based on this change, not some patch change like the wynn patch for example that was announced for glory days)
Also you need to take in consideration that in the next update of the game (Glory Days), NCSoft will introduce a lot of new skills that you can add to your character based on your Dual Class level, after level 85. And that change will make your character a lot different that you have right now.
I play a Human Healer, for me the former class Cardinal was fun and changing to the new Healer was not difficult nor easy it was a new thing only. But after a few months (almost a year) playing with the Healer I need to say that the change was a really good move from the Devs. This Healer is really powerful, and you can and have to play different roles in a group all the time. But role wise is not that different to play, like it was to play a Cardinal.
Why I say this, is because going back to the full diversification of the 34 classes will not impact me that much. But when I try to think this kind of change, I think in all of the classes that I don't play and how these implementations could change them.
I vote for: Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes
We need distinction, but not only for party game, the entire game. The awakened classes form only one generic system that removes the original ideia behind the kamael storyline, and just put humans in the middle, and we all know that humans won the war, they are the dominant race, the awaken update just erased that. This is why i chose this option. Not only for the game experiencie, but for the sake of l2 lore too.
We need the old class system, again, not only for partys and you should turn back the party with 9 person back together.
and review what u did with stats, this is important, you turn the d.elven race the best fighters on the game, and overpower someorcs with undying will, if these 2 races get back some old skills with the actual race status, you ll just ruined the game again. We want the old game back, but if u return some of our old skills u should pay atention to the race stats.
If you guys start again what you end on H5, the game ll be sooo much improved. Singular skills for singular Classe/Races, skills for solo, this is the right way.
I can talk about archers, cos I m one.
To diversificate that classe, FIRST thing that need to be repair is: __elfs do almost the same dmg with skills than one d.elf? skills is based on what?
SECOND. Before, we used to had elves weak/very fast, d.elves strong/very slow, humans strong/slow, kamaels strong/fast, this based on DPS. now the d.elf and elfs are at the top, they are the best archer leaving the other too sooooo much behind. This is wrong, the storyline told that is wrong. And please take a look at the old CP potions that one human could load and d.elf cant, this is something your guyz need to check, this is diversification.
THIRD. When this awaken generic class system arrives, we had the same HP range? why? The awaken is a class process, why did you change that? Some people chose elfs because they are fast, ok. Some people chose d.elves because they can one shot somethin, thats ok too. But some ppl chose the humans cos they can load 2k cp potions and have more HP. Please review that. Why we learn the FORGOTTEN SCROOlS, that we all know is the lost/powerfull giants tecniques and you erased that too and give us these nerf/generic skills? You should review that too.
I know that balance and perfection is 2 impossible things, nature shows that every day, the smarter beats the dumb, the carnivorous eat the one who eats plants, and you can watch matrix and see the architec telling this to Neo, distinction and diversification its not balance, pehaps this bring the power to the humans and kamaels again or not, but we need this, because your guyz turn l2 into something that whos had more money to buy adena/vitality or whatever ll win and l2 wasnt this kind of game, in the past one elf archer with carnage bow+majestic and +30stun could win against one human archer with vorpal+vesper bow, simply by the fact that the elf land stuns way more faster than the human, but the human can erased that elf with only one hit if he resist the stun.
and for last, please look at the armor mastery, all classes with heavy? really?. Here is my feedback.
The Legacy Dominator Sword I received got me thinking. I miss my dominator.
I like the idea of adding certain things to each class that reflects their original class AND race, as well as allowing them to continue on with some, many, most, or all, of their original pre-awakend skills.
Then, at, for example, 100, there is another class change. After this class change, Warriors can further their exploits, perhaps mastering a certain weapon path (polearm vs sword and shield vs 2-h weapons) gaining skills accordingly, and after picking a mastery they are blocked from the other masteries. Enchanters can develop as buffers OR debuffers (ie WC/PP vs OL). Summoners can pick 1 of the summon types and learn mastery of which they chose. Idk about the other classes atm.
Also, if someone picks a route they don't like then they can undo the change for some kind of cost if in the same level still, but after leveling the possibility is gone (I would figure 100-101 to be enough, or maybe by the end of 102).
The thing about all this though, if we revert back to the 34 classes, however it's done, we're gonna have so many classes people will never want. If we give bonuses according to pre-awakened classes then people may only level which ever has the most prudent bonuses. Considering that most parties pre-GoD consisted of specific classes (especially BD/SWS/DC), why have 34 again if it's just gonna end the same way again?
The best thing that could happen to the game now, is to bring back the 34 classes. Yet buffer and healer classes should keep most of their awakening skills.
For eg: Enchanters should be keep all the buffs they have, but they may differ from one another by having unique attack skills (BD: Single powerful attack, warcryer/dominator: mass debuff and so on...) And the same goes for healers. Because let's be honest: Who wants to have the need of getting 3 enchanter chars for a pt???
The only good thing in awakening is: iss + healer because now you don't need to search recharger + bichop and you don't need box wc or sws or bd anymore to have all buffs.
So, i voted for 34 classes back but i want the core of iss and healer to remain.
Btw, i miss old dwarves classes to spoil and craft.
Voted: Diversity by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes
I do think that adding diversity is a good thing and this will bring back people that have quit before, BUT this must be handled with care.
We have now 7 spots in a party and finding party members for this is very easy and having to find one ISS is a lot smoother then to find the old classes WC , SD and a SWS.
Changing it so that one type of ISS can't fulfill there part would be a giant set back for some classes, and would bring a lot of discomfort to players.
For example I read one of the DEV suggestions is that OL ISS will not be given Sonatas... This for example would nerf this class and they would be just as unwanted as they were back in the old chronicles.
This also apply to the other classes, one type of tank, DD etc. Must be able to handle there part in a party with out the party felling that its weaker.
So the key is: Add diversity to the classes BUT make them be able to fulfill there classrolls as they do now.
I play an Aeore Healer. Brought up from the Cardinal path.
And I feel like out of the 3, I'm the weakest race, and weakest healer. Literally the slowest runner in the game! Humans don't get Lesser Celestial shield. Or 1% Vampiric rage, or At the very least a attribute boost like all the other races! We do get unbind that only works on stun (not shock), and from npc's, w/ no immunity, the only time I've ever been able to use it is in Alter of Shilen instance.
So I choose that by adding diversity through racial traits would be good.
But I know that the community for korea, and US market wants the 35 race classes back.(judicator is a class too)
But from what I've seen for the Healer class I don't like where they are taking it.
Dark elf- high magic attack, High Recharge.
Elf- fast skill returns. High Recharge
Humans- a new heal. (shafted again)
So once again humans get neglected. And tossed aside by the more appreciated ELF races! I propose a different idea.
The Battle healer.
The Mage healer.
The Clan Healer.
The Battle healer should be Cardinal.
Based with High Defenses, Heavy armor mastery. And higher P df/Mdf, this is centered on high level Survival in pvp. This class type should be centered around the idea of survival.
Mage Healer Should be from the Elven Elder line.
The Mage healer should be like the current standard elf Aeore. However would be Centered on High Magic attack skills, and longer Debuffs, with higher land rate, and slightly higher stats. (EG: Mark of lumi, currently is 25% P df, and 25% M df, as a Mage healer those stats would change to reflect 30%/30%) This would allow for a more PvE eccentric healer, one that can better solo, without needing the aid of dd's.
Clan healer based off the idea of Shilen elders.
Would be more centered around the idea of being useful outside of their current party set up status (like dominators used to be to a clan). Containing higher lvl buffs. all heals including progressive heal towards CP. And possibly short term cubics, and buffs that heals with in a range. Higher Mana gain buff.
Also all healers need to be on the same level as far as Recharge goes. As a cardinal I already have a hard enough time as it is to solo heal my party, and focus on Managing MP at the same time. That if you penalize my Recharge skill, and make Elf and/or Dark Elf the prominent Recharger race type. Then no one will take Cardinal route, and it'll become a useless archetype.
There is a handful of more problems with healer type then what I just named:
Slow run speed. Weakens us Greatly, because we can't run away from dd classes. Tyrr can jump from a far to hit us with a stun/knockdown, Archers can kite us as they please, Daggers can dash in stunning us, Wynns can jump cougars, slowing us as they run closer, and elixe us with 5 debuffs chipping away at our HP. Can improve this by increasing our speed by 20
Lack of Over hit on our nukes makes us fall behind all other dd's s they earn more XP per hour then we can, making us Retire to party play, and eliminating solo play. just add overhits to our dark Veil, dark force, dark rain, mass dark Veil.
Lowered Power rating on our nukes. Forces us to group play more then solo play. As we kill slower per hour then any other like level DD class. just boost it a little, especially dark force.
Party Cleanse, and party Recharge. Came way too late in this classes level range. I know you need to have skills for players to keep reaching for. But party cleanse would of been very handy to have for teredor runs from lvl 85- 91. But this skill doesn't come until 94!! You have to wait until 94 when this could be very useful skill for Fortuna, and Teredor just to name two of your biggest instances.
Also the mp cost and return for Party Recharge skill is a joke. The MP it returns is too small for a skill that you have to wait for mid 90's to get.
My last note.
Please don't make the same mistake with Bounty hunters that the previous devolper team made. This class needs some PvP love too. Making it into a PvE only for plunder/spoil skills would destroy that class/race. No one will make a dwarf Dagger to play it only for PvE as far as the west is concerned. As it stands very few play it now. If you make it so only dwarfs are able to use plunder, the only ones using dwarf for Dagger will be bots.
You just need to make monsters more susceptible to being plundered. because currently, they are very hard to get plunder to work on, and almost no one uses plunder! As they save their MP for damaging skills, rather then wasting MP on skimming for a decent/half decent/useless item.
Hi everyone,
I voted for the first option : diversify through race-specific traits for the awakening class.
Why?
Having been a player since C3, the whole awakening deal was kind of a chock. I had to let my golem go (RIP) and change the way i played lots of classes and did lots of things ingame.
But after an adaptation period, i had to admit : the classes balanced each other quiet nicely and feel confortable to play now.
Diversity ?
I see lots of players saying : ''OMG give us back the 34 classes system, i miss my uber super toon of the dead. I want diversity, now everything is the same. QQ and QQ more''
The same ? Sure there's less classes than before but diversity is always present. It's simply more subtle now → Race skills and basic stats depending on race.
Why should we abandon this system when we could tweak it a little to bring REAL diversity to the game ?
Examples :
adding new race skills
race skills could be different for mages and fighters
some race skills could be tweaked to ensure a better hit rate ( Ex: earth tremor has nearly 0% hit rate once you pass lvl 90)
Why don't we also add specialisation options ? Someone on an earlier post spoke about it but let me say it again : for example ,a tank could choose to be either more defensive, more offensive etc (it could miror the way we customise the armor sets ). It would emply different stats and skills in a single class/race.
I also noticed a lot of players complaining that ''L2 was known to offer a lot of opportunity in the development of his toons''. Lol ??? we chose a race ,mage or fighter then at lvl 20, we make a first choice then a second at lvl 40 .... and after that, you just follow the herd until lvl 85. the way we played our characters was dictated by our class itself. In the end, all gladiators were the same, all tyrans were the same, all destroyers were the same etc...
Today, we have a more ballanced system that allows variants for the same class. First with race. Then there's subclass (or stone of destiny) that makes some former unavailable classes available to us and playable as a main (dwarf summoner, elven tyrr …).
In add to being a true diversity, it also helps in keeping things fresh with pvp. Now, it's less predictable : you need to know your skills, have good reflexes at the good time etc... most players don't like that... they like the whole : ''my class is stronger than yours, fight, oh you died ,noob !!!"
Return to the 34 classes ?
We all know how this is going to unfold : some classes will be shunned and excluded :
''but, don't you understand ? It's not powerful enough in pvp''
''we don't need you in our party, that other class is way better'' (ex*: Prophets and warcryers were nearly the same in C3 and nobody or almost played Prophet anymore in H5 ..)
lack of ballance between classes
boost/nerf of some class with each update. That is annoying when you either have to stop playing it and make a new character.
Why don't we just cancel the whole last year , while we're at it ?
I really hope this is not real. It's kind of horrible. With those changes, a Dominator would never find a party if he wasn't in a huge clan (my ISS is a former warcryer so i don't care...), Dwarfs will be the weakest Tyrr/Othell in the game and my healer will become a mana charger exclusively.
I would like the add that the poll shows only a little more than 1000 votes, wich doesn't represent at all the players of NC West servers. Lots of players cry themself to sleep wishing for a return of the old classes. But how many of the others like the system as it is and didn't vote ? How many didn't even know about the poll ? How many don't speak a word of english and don't understand this whole deal ?
Lot of players left the game because of GoD but how many didn't play L2 before because they were lost in the overabundance of classes ? Some people say ''omg there's only 8 classes now, L2 is dead, what the hell were you thinking ? ....''. Let's not forget that each chronicle had it's haters, people who stopped playing because it was different etc... That's «resistance to change».
And lots of other players like the fact that they're not expendable classes anymore. Classes that gets called in specific situations and tossed away just after that. They like to have the same chances in olympiads, like all the others, even if they're not hard gamers who play nearly 24/7 to up 25 toons oO. But they love the game as much as other. And, think about all the people who have chosen a class based on race and Awakening and will have to start because they will become not enjoy their...
This is what i think of this whole subject. This is still a difficult choice : we don't have a lot of details about how the options will work out.
Thank you for your time & sry for this big post, but good opportunity to give my opinion.
From my point of view back to the 34 classes will only make pre goodes again to exclude certain types of characters as happened with the spoiler and Maestro
I give a lot of thought to it and decided that you can leave this awekened system from 85 till 95 lvl
Then you should add quest to remind of your true identity. So it means that tyr warrior that was titan after 3rd profesion will get back some titan skills etc.
Yes this is class based but this is the way in which u can retur to 34 classes and not have to do major remaking in 85-95 lvl gap.
people will ALWAYS complain about something. who can say things are "balanced" now? i just read today that the most powerful iss enchanter is a de because of racial stats/racial skill to protect against debuff and you keep dances. so what is the point in my overlord if i lose my unique skills such as soul cry and soul shield to pick up skills that will make me more desirable or mainstream? i chose overlord because they apparently are special and cannot be subbed into. so what is so special now when i come to learn these things? people will always want to be the best so i say duck it and just individual things again. who cares if it will imbalance 1v1 pvp. i thought this game was community oriented. that play style is long gone and dead once l2 added PtA and is now free to play. everyone not only has alternative characters but alternative accounts. its turned into a lonely game agreeing with the post above in that much of the content before end game is useless junk floating in the server and when you do reach end game you made no connections with other players. i mean im lvl 69 and have yet to find myself a mentor
change is good. we just need to make the right one, pts are always fun :)
Just let already awakened characters to choose the class to awaken. Many dwarf othells and iss dominators will feel screwed because they choose just the looks of the character as they have almost the same stats and race skills are not that much of a difference. Same for some tanks. If not you will have huge amount of unwanted characters and ppl that will stop to play.
Why if it going Back to 34 Class Iss going over so all need make Prophet /SONG/dance etc
and many thing in game will need be changed mobs etc
So let the 7 class awakning and make more 4 awakening class
Because heros its the hardget at moment only top clans can pick if make more class people going have new chanse's ^^
Careful with going back to 34 classes, for examples a tyrr, if your main is titan u gonna lose totems, revival and some weapon masterys, same for grandkavatari.. they ll lose frenzy , etc.. Now imagine an Iss without sonatas or without all those debuffs... going back to sws, bd, wc , pp lol party will have to be of 9 again, not 7. And the same for all clases they will lose many skills.
So i voted for "Other" , why? because i think its better to keep it like it is now, BUT.. rename all 34 main classes , but dont remove any awakened skills or racial, just add 2/3/4 new unique active skills to the new renamed 34 classes. For example, light elf daggers can be "wind rogue" and they will keep all of their racial + awakened skills but can have 2, 3 or 4 new UNIQUE active skill, same for humans, dwarves and dark elves.
Yes, something needs to be done and it cant be left like this, 8 final classes is the last thing we need.
Your no one, your not special, your boring, there are many players like you who can take your place in the party anytime. The only difference between you and others like you is your level and items.
The most effected class is spoiler which was removed from the game for good. Making them Othell Rouge and giving them plunder to make them think they are still spoilers, is like giving a cat a bone and telling it, your a dog now!
Plunder is also useless, I thought getting a Maphr’s Rune would help me get a drop.. any drop, but nothing.
I thought im a dd so lets try to get from 86 to 90, but after 5 hours of non stop fast killing and full vitality maintained with potions. I only made 4%.
As for tanks, it was so hard for me to level but with the help of xp runes and mentor, I managed to get to 86 and stopped!
I made a tank to enjoy killing a few raids but now adays no one is raiding. Your only good for kartia and thats it. I cant do harnak or soa because of lag issues and you cant afford to lag when you are a tank!
I try to solo swamp and it takes me forever to kill a mob and its only 0.01% if I have vitality. You took vanguard away so its either join a party or dont play at all!
So the game is like login, do kartia, logout!
8 is too little and 36 is too much. Maybe 12-24 is good so I voted for the first option!
Anyway, if you can create and balance 36 classes, then go for it. We already have 8 classes and one was overpowered until you nerfed it last week.
I choose "Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into class 34"
One of the essences of Lineage II are diverse classes, be unique in each group, be unique, when you arrive at level 85 could keep some abilities unique to each race / class will not be very generic like this right now. The class that I love most and I identified was the Phoenix Knight, I thought a lot before choosing this class and when I turned Awakening missed some skills that only the Phoenix Knight had. Summarizing love to be a Sigel Phoenix Knight and can continuing my path as the guy who's the best defense and sacrificed their lives for others.
Those "cons" in option 3 worry me, especially the "Some classes may end up losing some skills (An Othell Rogue may gain a 3rd transfer class’ skill and lose Plunder due to the Fortune Seeker.)" con.
So, does that mean some Sigel Knights won't be able to summon the lion if the previous class was one of the Templars?
What about those who used the Stone of Destiny? For example, if someone had a Maestro, but used the Stone of Destiny to change to Othell Rogue, will Plunder still disappear because the dwarf wasn't a Fortune Seeker before awakening?
i choose 3rd option. the game is so dull with just 8 classes. come on people....this game can do much more than 8 classes....with 4th class you lose so many cool things specific to your class that in some cases the game become as boring as hell.
well i choose "34 class" option, btw reading lots of post i realize then
- yes, 34 was better for diversify the gameplay
- yes, 34 class mean unbalance game and unliked class
SO probably an "half way" system is the better way; what half way system mean? it mean maintain current awakened classes skills base and add 2 branch each class for diversify gamelplay (obviusly with particular attention to balance all) 16 is better then 8 for diversify gameplay and better then 34 for balance all.....
exemple of branches
SIGEL KNIGHT
1) agressive tank - more damage
2) defensive tank - more defence
TYRR WARRIOR
1) dual specialist -more atk speed and crit
2) 2h specialist - more p.atk and accuracy
YUL ARCHER
1) bow specialist - more p.atk and long range
2)xbow specialist - more atk speed and crits* (*more balanced)
OTHELL ROGUEL
1) 1 dager specialist -more crits
2) 2 daggers specialist - more p.atk
FEOH WIZARD
1) damge sorc - more damage
2) casting sorc - more atk.speed
WYNN SUMMONER
1) debuff specialist - improved debuff
2) defense specialist - summon more resist and improved transfer pain
ISS ENCHANT
1) high defense - lot of buff for defence
2) high offence - lot of buff for atk
AOERE HEALER
1) more resistance - lot of mana improved group heal
2) fast cast - fast heal
look those are 16 mini-class how reflect all 34 old classes but on this way is so easy balance all with new skills
(maybe branch can be chose at lvl 88-90)
and yes, lot of play really like own race lore, so please improved race skills system for more diversify race too
i choosed to come back and the reason was the NEW LINEAGE 2 .
Currently i am playing a dwarf ( ex fortune seeker ) othell now ( the class example of the dev :) ) and i can say my only problems are
the usage of poison zone because the mouse-click of the skill is BUGGY and often in battle i must click many times to succed land it .
the game is still not well optimised to play someone with wasd + 1,2,3,4 ...etc keys .if devs fix this will be a big success for the game and it will bring a fresh air .
and not that other races / classes have the new spoil !
about the poll now the skills . I will choose other option because i think that any big changes right now for classes and races from 86 lvl up to 99 lvl will hurt more people than them that will pleased after changes because the game is enough well optimised to have all a role in a pve content ( instance or open pve ) and ofcourse the final target that is the pvp content and i bet that any change after will bring more problems in pvp balance and in pve parties ( who will choose in a party a glass or a dedicated offensive tank ? nobody )
if devs want to bring back diversity i hope they will do it after 99 lvl in the final awaken form where classes and races will have back the original diversity roles .
I did like the old classes, hell I'm even still playing with 'em because I didn't reach the level of awakening yet.
In my mind it's kind of boring that all warriors, all knights, all healers and all buffers will be exacly the same when awakened. More balanced maybe, but still alot less exciting.
Also like many others I think this poll is pointless, bc we will get the same changes like any other version of L2 no matter if the results come out different than in korean forum.
The development team has made some big steps with these past few updates and has taken some huge risks. While not all changes have been popular, I think it would be more in line with the spirit of Lineage to continue to move forward instead of taking any steps backwards. I believe that it’s still possible to create diversity in the game without splitting the current characters back into the original classes. And, I believe, you can do it simply by expanding on the current game lore and revamping a few elements. It seems like the developers have already made up their mind to go in one direction, but if they’re willing to spend a little time, use a little imagination, and put in a little work, I think the results could be interesting to see.
The story so far with Goddess of Destruction has been Shilen’s revenge plot. Well, Shilen had some parents and siblings that may not take too kindly to her new found ambitions. Use that to develop some new character aspects and voila’, you can bring back great character diversity and keep the story moving foward. After awakening, at a certain level, you can allow characters the chance to choose a god to follow and have that god further augment their powers with a base stat increase and also with god specific skills. Here’s a summary of each god and what they could give:
Followers of Pa’agrio (Fire) – The followers of Pa’agrio are known for their explosive power, ferocity, and survivability on the battlefield. Their fire aspect makes them masters of damage over time attacks and they are able to support or engage on a massive scale using clan based attacks or buffs. Those that worship Pa’agrio are blessed with increased P.atk, M.atk, and HP but are generally slow and have almost no evasion.
Followers of Sayha (Wind) – The followers of Sayha use speed and evasion to win the day . Utilizing the power of wind, they are excellent at hit and run tactics. They are able to briefly engage multiple enemies before seemingly vanishing into thin air. While they are blessed with increased evasion, casting, attack, and run speeds, they have lower defensive powers and generally lower HP and MP.
Followers of Maphr (Earth) – As durable as the earth god they worship, the followers of Maphr rely on their intelligence and mastery of constructs in order to prosper and defeat their enemies. They are blessed with an increased resistance to physical and magical damage and higher HP than followers of other gods, but (with the exception of their constructs) their attacks are generally less accurate and are less likely to perform a critical attack.
Followers of Eva (Water) – Those that follow Eva fully embrace the life giving and balancing aspect of water. They excel at beneficial magic that can protect or empower an entire party. They are masters of re-direction attacks that use an enemy’s own power against them and their knowledge of the ways of healing are unsurpassed. They are blessed with more HP, MP, and a higher M.atk than the followers of other gods, but they have lower CP and less direct attack capabilities.
Followers of Shilen (Dark) – After Shilen razed the world; many decided it was better to be standing alongside the crazed goddess than to be in her path. Shilen gifted those willing to serve with dark powers that made them unrivaled assassins and masters of death and disease. They strike out at others from the shadows with deadly efficiency due to their increased accuracy, P.critical, and M.critical capabilities. They have low defensive powers, but can feed on the living and the dead to supplement their powers.
Followers of Einhasad (Holy) – The haughty god Einhasad has transformed her followers into finest combat efficient soldiers the land of Aden have ever seen. Those that take up her banner are gifted with neverending buffs that increase all aspects of their natures. They are masters of solo combat, and while they have no solo attack skills, they can combine their powers with other Einhasad followers to invoke either their patron goddess’s powerful blessings or her destructive wrath . They cannot receive buffs or protection from others, but they can be denied access to Einhasad’s power through debuffs.
Now comes the part for the revamping. Using the power of the gods consumes element stones. Also using element stones on your armor and weapons enhance the defensive and attack capabilities of your god powers. Sell a variation of the element stones in the store to be used in activating your abilities.
Here’s an example of what a Sigel Knight’s powers would be based on each element:
Pa'agrio Sigel Knight:
Fire Totem- Summons a stationary Fire Totem fire breathing defense at all enemy targets within range. Consumes 10 fire stones
Fire Shield- Creates an impenetrable fire barrier around all clan members for 30 seconds. Consumes 30 fire stones
Flashfire-Fires a fire ball that does damage over time and provokes the enemy to attack. Consumes 3 fire stones.
Sayha Sigel Knight:
Shield Thow - Uses the power of wind to throw your shield and strike multiple enemies and cancels their targets. Consumes 10 wind stones
Wind Dance - Greatly increases user’s evasion for 10 minutes and has the chance of inflicting wind shackle on attacking target. Consumes 10 wind stones
Mount Attack – Instantaneously teleports the entire party to the user’s location and increases their pdef by 500 for 10 seconds. Consumes 30 wind stones
Maphr Sigel Knight:
Boulder Dash – Using the power of earth, rush attack an enemy leaving them stunned for 10 seconds. Has a 25% chance of forcing a random piece of armor or weapon to unequip from target . Consumes 10 earth stones.
Summon Clockwork Knight – Summons an indestructible Clockwork Knight that provokes all targets in range to attack it for 3 minutes. Consumes 30 earth stones
Immaculate Defense – Increases shield defense by 100% for 10 seconds. Reduces user’s atk speed and movement by 50%. Has a 10% chance to completely recover HP while active. Consumes 10 earth stones.
Eva Sigel Knight:
Evenflow – Adds together all the defensive power of an entire party and distributes gives the total aggregate number to each party member for 10 seconds. Consumes 30 water stones.
Surge Strike – Releases a powerful ranged water attack that produces a silence effect. Consumes 10 water stones
Mirror Image – Once active, Uses the power of water to absorb and redirect the force attack at a target of your choosing. Consumes 10 water stones.
Shilen Sigel Knight:
Armor Piercing – Charges your sword with dark energy and increases your P.atk by 1000 for 30 seconds. Each attack weakens the Pdef of the target by 8%. Consumes 10 dark stones.
Summon Death Knight Marauder– Summons a Death Knight Marauder to fight alongside you. Consumes 10 dark stones
Dark Ambush – Using the cover of shadows, the entire party becomes with the exception of the user becomes hidden for 5 minutes. Hidden party members must stay within a certain range of the user in order to remained hidden. Consumes 30 dark stones.
Einhasad Sigel Knight:
Strengh and Honor – When in party with another Einhasad follower, deliver a powerful 4 strike attack that increases in intensity and power based on the number of Einhasad followers in your party. Consumes 10 holy stones.
Plague of Locust – When in party with another Einhasad follower, release cloud of locusts that reduces the accuracy of a target by 10% for every Einhasad member in party. Consumes 10 holy stones
Divine Lightning – When in party with another Einhasad member, release a chain lightning attack that damages the target and their allies within range. The starting range is 600 and it increases by 300 for every Einhasad member in party Consumes 30 holy stones.
“The Einhasad class bears a bit more explaining. When a person chooses Einhasad, they have constant buffs similar to how a mentor buffs are on when your mentor logs in. The can’t use skills unless in a party with other Einhasad members and when they are, the intensity of their buffs also increase to a factor of 7.”
I had created a list of skills for all classes of all gods, but that would be too long to read here. So I’m going to put all the Pa’agrio skills here just so you can get an idea:
Pa'agrio Sigel Knight:
Fire Totem- Summons a stationary fire breathing defense at all enemy targets within range. Consumes 10 fire stones
Fire Shield- Creates an impenetrable fire barrier around all clan members for 30 seconds. Consumes 30 fire stones
Flashfire-Fires a fire ball that does damage over time and provokes the enemy to attack. Consumes 3 fire stones.
Pa'agrio Yul Archer:
Heat Seeker – Locks the target for 10 seconds so that each shot will automatically go to the target. Infinite range. Consumes 10 fire stones.
Arson Shot –fires a shot that ignites a wide area for 40 seconds that deals damage to all that pass through. Consumes 10 fire stones.
Cover Fire-Sacrifices all MP to attack all enemy targets in an area. Has the chance to stun enemies as well. Consumes 30 fire stones.
Pa'agrio Tyrr Warrior:
Brute Strength –For 5 seconds, raises patk by 3000 and lowers pdef by 500. Consumes 3 fire stones.
Unrelenting Assault – Launches a powerful chain attack that affects all nearby targets. Reduces user’s battle stats by half for 10 seconds after use. Consumes 30 Fire stones
Inner Fire – Builds up the power of fire to launch a powerful long range attack that continues to do additional fire damage for 10 seconds. Consumes 10 Fire Stones.
Pa'agrio Othell Rogue:
Fire walker- Increase Pdef by 800 for 10 seconds. Consumes 10 fire stones and
Blaze of Glory – At the cost of your own life, inflict a possible lethal strike on all enemies around you. Consumes 30 Fire stones.
Hot Knives- Infuses your daggers with the power of fire. Greatly increases Patk and continues to damage enemy for 10 seconds. Consumes 3 fire stones
Pa'agrio Feoh Wizard:
Conflagration – Creates a powerful fire storm that damages target and decreases their resistance to fire based attacks. consumes 10 fire stones
Fire Fight- Sacrifice all MP to launch a powerful fire attack at all enemy clan members on field. Consumes 30 fire stones.
Flambe’- Ingests a fire stone to spew a conical blast of fire that damages enemy targets directly ahead. The more fire stones used, the greater the attack. Consumes up to 5 Fire stones.
Pa'agrio Iss Enchanter:
Dying Flame – Casts a spell that slows the run speed, atk speed, and casting speed of all enemies on the field. The effect is progressive and lasts for 20 seconds. Consumes 30 fire stones.
Fire Sphere – surrounds target in sphere of fire preventing attack and movement. Effect does not dissipate and must be removed. Consumes 10 fire stones
Aria of Fire – For 5 minutes, adds 20% more power and duration to all Pa’agrio based attacks, summons, and debuffs. Consumes 5 fire stones.
Pa'agrio Wynn Summoner:
Summon Burning Man – Summons a Burning Man demon to fight alongside you. Consumes 10 fire stones.
Summon Cubic of Pa’agrio –The summoned cubic Inflicts area fire damage and transfers that damage as HP to the Burning Man summon. Consumes 30 fire stones.
Bellows of Pa’agrio– Allows a Burning Man summon to instantly reappear after being destroyed. Consumes 30 fire stones.
Pa'agrio Aeore Healer:
Spirtual Inferno - Increases the user’s Patk and Pdef by 600 for 5 minutes. Consumes 10 fire stones.
Heat Stroke – Increases temperature around a target that decreases the HP and MP of all nearby enemies. Consumes 10 fire stones.
Fiery Resolve – Negates the total amount of damage inflicted from the enemy’s first three attacks and adds it to the user’s Pdef for 20 seconds. Consumes 30 fire stones.
Also, you can add another racial trait for races that were created by certain gods to be given an additional stat or power if they choose that god as their patron. For example if an Orc chooses to Pa’agrio, they can summon the spirit of Pa’agrio as either an attack, a buff, or a passive enhancement trait. For Kamael if they choose Einhasad, they get a similar racial trait. You can even let these racial traits stack if you get a full party of orcs or a full party of humans. For example, Give a 5% Drop rate bonus to dwarves that follow Maphr and let that stack for each dwarf in party up to 35% increase.
The best part is that you can allow people to change their patron god at a cost or time penalty so that people don’t feel pigeon-holed into a character when changes occur. I’d be happy to share the rest of the ideas if the developers want some clarification.
I think they should return the 34 classe but should give players a choice profession, many people made a pj q based on racial abilities no longer be useful, for example many orc iss are based on their ease of acquisition level, but back at 34 into professions will no longer be functional as if a magician with a wc iss
sorry for my pitiful English but use the translator of google
This poll is now closed! Thank you everyone for your participation and constructive input in this exciting poll and feedback session with the development team. :)
Results of the Poll:
As you can see from the vote counter, the players of NCsoft West voted to "Diversify the classes by dividing the Awakening classes back into 34 classes."
In Korea and some other territories this particular poll had already taken place and their results had already spurred a decision by the development team. Regretfully NCsoft West's chance at having this feedback poll started late, but the Korean development team requested specifically that the poll should take place anyways because they value our feedback and opinions. For future polls in this series, NCsoft West's results will be included in the decision-making process along with other territories. The feedback is being forwarded to the NCsoft headquarters in Korea.
Their decision ended up being to diversify the classes by allowing players to choose 3rd class skills to retain. Currently, subsequent polls and discussion in Korea are determining the finer details of what skills, choices, and stats will be available when this change comes to pass.
Review Process for Determining the 3 Winning Posts:
We are thoroughly impressed and proud of the many insightful and constructive posts players have made in this thread! :D As promised, 3 posts will be chosen as the most constructive and those players will be rewarded with a special prize. The winning posts will serve as paramount examples of the constructiveness that is encouraged on these forums.
Some details about the review process:
All posts within this thread are being copied to an external document collection so that the review process can begin. Please note that any edits to posts in this thread after now will not be recorded, as the posts have already been copied to the review documents offline.
All posts will be considered individually; if you made multiple posts they will not be evaluated as a whole.
The review and judgment of these posts will be performed by the NCsoft West team.
Posts are reviewed and judged only in terms of constructiveness and insightfulness, but not directly for the ideas, reasoning, or poll answer choice in them. There is no "correct" or "best" answer to the poll question.
As there are many posts this will take a little while; we expect to be able to announce the winners by the end of this week. The winners will be notified on the forums.
The prize for the 3 winners is 1 Blessed Scroll R(2)-Grade. A player may win only once per poll thread.
The next poll in the series will open shortly. Please check for announcements on this!
The winners of Most Constructive Posts have been determined! :D
The Lineage II staff of NCsoft West has spent a long time reviewing all the great posts made in this thread. We are again and again impressed at the level of detail and creativity of the many great ideas and reasoning shown in this thread, which reflects proudly upon devoted players. After much deliberation, three posts were chosen as the most constructive in that the author clearly stated their choice of the poll answers, their reasoning behind it, helpfully provided ideas or examples to back up their logic, and evidently put much thought behind their words (and stayed on-topic and followed forum rules ;).
We publicly thank the following players for their constructive post contributions to this poll:
Winners, please check your forum PMs for prize-awarding details.
We'd like to extend a large thanks to all the players that contributed in this poll! Please follow the rest of the feedback poll series for more discussion about the future of Lineage II, and more opportunities to make constructive posts for prizes. :)