Please remember to only post replies that are your personal feedback about the topic and question at hand. This thread is not the place for inter-player back-and-forth discussions, comments on another person's opinion, or discussion and comments about other topics. If your post is not a direct response to the poll question, don't be surprised if it is removed. All posts must be in English and all forum rules apply.
Tyrr Warriors:
Modify Last Attack skill
Eliminate skill cooldown and make it more useful in PvP
Increase skill’s critical rate
Increase Superior Light Armor Mastery’s power
Last Attack is useless and still will be useless with this change, If I have to wait for a mobs to be 20% HP or less to use this skill I rather hit him 3 times (tops) and kill it rather than use this skill and waste MP. It will only worth if you can use it when mob is 50% HP so I can save valuable time by using the skill and then if lands just hit one last time for the kill.
And the "Increase Superior Light Armor Mastery’s power" are you joking me?, what decent Tyrr will use Light armor over Heavy?
Direction of changess looks good, i have only one clue to Add.
Designers , should do all to make pvp battles last longer.
That would force ppl use more skills, more thinking, more interesting pvp's,
dont know how maybe reducing dps. Designers should think abaut it. :)
Abaut restoring 34 classes from 8 its bad idea, keep 8, let ppl pick 3rd class some skills. Peoples like to decide.
I would say the purposed balance is adequate, but the scope of the changes are generally too broad to make without proper testing, i.e. a PTS. Balancing the classes has always been one of the biggest issues in lineage 2. Pre GoD chronicles always had one or two classes that were very overpowered and this was due to the lack of foresight or time committed to proper testing. However with the GoD and Tauti that balance, in general, has been quite good compared to the previous chronicles.
Yet there are nuances of imbalance that remains with certain classes and certain skills. Summoner's binding for example is inescapable (disperation, hide, etc) while Foeh's hellbinding is. Dagger's confusion skill is confusing to the player as it has neither a role in PVP or PVE.
These are the examples of poorly thought out skill planning that the developers need to focus on in order to properly balance the classes. Broad sweeping changes (summons from 4 to 2) and new ideas needs to be tested, evaluated, and retested to ensure playability and enjoyment for the player base.
Other than proper testing i would say the developers have done a good job as to the class balance. The only two classes that are a bit overpowered currently is Knights and Healers. Certain DD classes like daggers and archers have a hard time defeating these classes due to the heavy amounts of pdef and lack of damage. However i do believe the purposed balance will help equal out the differences.
2. i think it will be mostly adequate some things will need to be revised
for one feoh is overpowered dont increase the damage its overkill, and dont decrease success rate of tank aggression for the aggression is what makes a tank a tank, other than that all sounds good but maybe servitors should get a little bigger power boost
7) Wynn Summoner
The Wynn Summoner is currently the most powerful class in hunting. We will be increasing the usefulness of skills that connect with servitor skills as befitting the summoner class. The biggest change will be that we will be decreasing the max number of summoned servitors while increasing the stats of each servitor, so that the effect will be the same despite the decrease in numbers.
Servitor Major Heal skill increased in power
Atk. Power increases when equipped with dual blunts for wizards; weapon selection also increased
Increase Summon Death Gate skill power
Increase servitor’s attack and defense
Change max number of summoned servitors
2 is now the max number of servitors that can be summoned by level
Following the decrease in numbers, the servitors’ stats will increase accordingly
Ok, while this is all good and fine, you are missing what most of the wynn's have been saying since this change was forced on na servers. If we lose a summon, instead of being down by a 1/4 or 1/3 power, we are now down by 1/2. If you don't change the time to resummon, you have made this a serious power loss in pvp and pve. This needs to be modified so we have a chance to resummon.
The increase we saw was not linear so therefor we have been gimped. If you really meant to keep our blance, then the stats of the summons has to be redone to give us back that which was stolen.
As an aside, your "balancing" is most admirable but the truth is in the history of all the lineage series, that the full effect of this won't be felt for a week or two into open release and by then we once again have over powered toons. What you also need to put into place is the ability to gradulaly change overpowered skills or underpowered skills over the course of a chroncile instead of it being stuck like that until the next full update.
Your tools that the programmers have there are inadequate or your understanding of how we users apply them is lacking. Either way, this has to become a dynamic process with full transparency to the users. Ninja Patches suck!!!!!!!!!
First off, I love all these poll and that there is a sense of 'caring' about the player.
But I voted Other.
1)
The modification listed for the Wynn Summoner are already applied and didn't balance the class in any way. I've lost 20-30% damage output just by losing the third summon, I imagine that the loss of damage after 95 would be 30-40%. Not increasing the skill power of the summon skills nor changing the re-summon time when a summon dies already killed off the Wynn Summoner class as a successful solo damage class and lost his impact in party play.
The only change for Wynn Summoner that should be done to balance the class is to give Superior Major Heal and Servitor Balance Life more power and a heal over time effect like Greater Heal (dunno what equivalent awakened skill name is). Using Servitor Balance Life on just two summons with less then 50% HP is just suicide and without the third summon you barely can heal the summon with the most damage with this skill, making it absolutely useless. Adding the heal over time would really solve this.
2)
The modification listed for the Feoh Wizard are just overpowered. Adding another 10% damage output from Feoh's is just overkill. It's already almost impossible to win from an equal level equal geared Feoh as it is with almost a 100% land rate of debuffs. It's impossible to kill them when you're lifted up in the air or to just get in close range from them to do melee damage due to the blinking skill. Boosting the Feoh will bring back the unbalance we had in High 5, that a lot of melee classes and archers were 'forced' to reroll because they just simply had no more power compared to mages.
3)
The return of range vs. damage is a nice comeback. But it will kill off a lot of archers. Now archers can do the same damage in i.e. Fortuna while in the corner in the last two stages. With the range vs. damage change their damage will be decreased with 60-70% (at least it was like that in Interlude) making them useless to take along in Fortuna. Same applies to bringing an Yul Archer to Orbis Temple. The damage loss due range will totally kill it's AoE abilities while cornered.
The only balance game needs is an good balanced supply of element stones and crystals from other sources then the bugged Seeds in Annihilation or from Kartia reward. If everybody can get it's hands on stones and crystals to make it's armor 120*3 a lot of unbalance in the game is already solved. The crystal prices went up from 3-4 mil to 6,5m since the seeds started to bug. And since they barely drop from open field exp (and barely anybody does open field exp due to instances like Kartia and Fortuna) there is nothing to supply the market.
I would add a fix for the currently worthless Avenging Cubic for Wynns. It would be nice if the cubic actually worked as advertised instead of just sitting there doing nothing.
I really think there should be a change, Orc Mystic, being changed to gerrero has generated a negative change as it goes from being a powerful mystical opponent to a buffer that only performs basic functions and dynamics that had the character essence itself has completely disappeared, personally Peria good review was done for this race that has been altered in its entirety, as many preferred as it was before the simplification of races.
I would add a fix for the currently worthless Avenging Cubic for Wynns. It would be nice if the cubic actually worked as advertised instead of just sitting there doing nothing.
I totally forgot about that. Maybe because I simply don't summon it anymore most of the time. It's a total useless thing. Smart Cubic at least cured your debuffs instantly. This cubic just sits and waits till there is 1 second left on the debuff and then does its job, most of the time time itself is faster then the debuff. And the root skill doesn't even land on light-blue mobs which are fully debuff. It's a laugh. Upgrade it to standards of Smart Cubic or change it to have the effect of Smart Cubic and Phantom Cubic.
I'm P.I.S.S.E.D off at the changes to healer! or lack there of.
While they increase ballance life, and progressive heal's mp cost. They are again increasing the mp cost of many classes skills. I already have a hard enough time as it is to manage mp. Now they are going to make it even harder to manage MP.
increase of healers mp consumption of our 2 main heals. + increase of all classes skills = draining my mp pool!! and or unable to keep them filled at all.
Then every other class gets a boost, and we get shafted, because they are too scared to make any big changes for healers....god darn it NCsoft really P.I.S.S.E.S me off!!
Adding more Power to Feoh is not good!!
They already got overhits on ALL nukes, that's where they excel in pve over other classes. They level faster with a marginal boost to earned XP...allowing them to solo play and gain more XP then a like lvl wynn, or aeore.
Not to mention Hellbinding, is seriously OP! I can't tell you how many times I've been killed in that 4 second interval! Because it's been many times. So you want to make their dmg even higher, cause right now I have a slim chance to escape it, and heal/celestial. But if you boost their power even higher I will never survive that DPS!! It is alot harder to defend VS Mages then physical dmg.
Tyrrs armor destruction with 30% more power?! Really? if they skill crt currently my CP goes from full to 0 (fully buffed I have over 19k CP). With their knock down they can kill me before I can stand up, and survive the animation effects of having been knocked down.
I've always felt that Tankers should have more M.Def. Without Ultimate Defense, it can die for wizards really fast... In wich seems really awkward for a class that should be able to survive for the longest time
Like Roman poet Juvenal said in the first century :'Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt'.
After the series of Polls I have participate, the result of this polls, the comments of all of us I feel that the default judgment had already been issued even before this polls started.
Balance between the 34 Classes is in my opinion senseless. There is no balance in their task and will never be, that is what makes Lineage 2 what is, the most wonderful MMORPG. You can choose what to be and how to perform this task.
But this Awakening journey is not leading us to a good ending. I feel is leading to a world where the difference between classes is not clear, blurry and borring.
I am surprised to hear people ask for balance and claim for that because in Olympiads their Aeore Healer (Cardinal) can not stand against a Yul Archer (Ghost Sentinel) That is senseless to me.
Will you ask your doctor to assault a terrorist bunker? or ask a navy seal sniper to perform an open heart surgery in your brother? and be successful in the task?
I feel this is not the path and I already said this in previous polls.
Things have lost their path, summon life balance between only 2 summons?, shifting the task of the wonderful Dominator to a common buffer?
Turn the unique Doomcryer also in a common buffer?
Each path had its strengths and its weakness and that is what made Lineage 2 the amazing world it was. That why there were 9 in a party. Thats why so many people played it in the past, that is what must remain.
There must not be balance in the classes, what I feel we need is
Tank classes that stand and tolerate more damage, that have skills for this.
Archers that do more damage no matter the distance but the defense of the opponent and have how to overcome that defenses.
and the same for each class, hear people saying that wizards are overpowered because they do a lot more damage. they wear robes they can not stand the damage a human Siegel knight can, will we hear wizards claiming to 'balance' the game to stand the damage a knight can take?
I want each race and each class unique, not balanced, I do not want a game where there are a lot of 'jacks of all trades' that do everything but do not excel in nothing
I what a human archer so different to an elven one that you must think carefully who you take in your journey if it is for farming in the wilds or to siege a fortress.
I want you need to take both dancer and muse to the raid.
"we would like to level out the imbalances by increasing the power of relatively weak classes instead of decreasing the overpowered skills’ damage-dealing, unless the latter direction is imperative in the overall direction of balance adjustments."
I believe this is the best decision, rather than eliminating an overpowered skill. That will keep the game play the same, at the same time improve server balance on classes. That would give a more diverse server.
2) Renovating Skill Usefulness and Battle Formula
"We would like to fix this issue to allow for a more strategic use in battle as intended by the designers. As for battle formula, we will simplify it for easier recognition and correct unfair disadvantages to certain classes."
I do not really have much to comment on this, because the statement does not explain enough to form an opinion.
2. Battle Formula Modification
1) Debuff Formula and Resistance Value Change
"Debuffs on whole have success rates which vary depending on the user and targets’ stats. This alone provides plenty of variety to debuffs, so random duration times can be problematic in terms of increased complexity. As such, we will eliminate the random factor in duration times and retain only the success/failure element as a variable, simplifying the mechanics once the debuff is successful."
This will definitely be a positive improvement in game play. Players will be able to calculate/customize their character better depending on their desire game play. Also random variable isn't desirable in PVP, only in enchanting or augmentation is randomization needed.
2) Evasion Formula Change
"As such, we plan to change the formula so that damage received would not increase as evasion rate increases; this would be more rewarding for classes that wear light armor and use evasion as a main form of defense."
I did not understand this much, questioning how does the current system work...Damage receive increases, as evasion rate increase...If that is the case. Then this would be a good update.
3) Changes to the Ranged Physical Damage Formula According to Distance
"When attacking with a bow, physical damage increases or decreases depending on the distance between attacker and target."
I believe this is not going to be a popular change. This was done in the past and archers became increasingly unpopular. If you make a change don't just target one class specifically, positive or negative.
3. Modifications Per Class
1) Sigel Knight
Increase Shield Charge duration
Modify the King of Beasts skill
Decrease skill cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply; casting time is affected by attack speed.
Chain Strike and Chain Hydra skills have increased success rates
Superior Aggression and Superior Aggression Aura skills have decreased success rates
I'm all for increasing Shield Charge duration, but not for increasing Chain Strike and Chain Hydra success rates. Chain Strike and Chain Hydra seems to already a high success rate. Also a tank needs their aggression skills to hit more not a decrease in its success rate.
2) Tyrr Warrior
Increase Armor Destruction and Hurricane Blaster skills’ power
30% increase in ability to decrease target’s defense
Modify Last Attack skill
Eliminate skill cooldown and make it more useful in PvP
Increase skill’s critical rate
Increase all damage-dealing skills’ success rates
Increase Superior Light Armor Mastery’s power
Modify Sonic Star and Infinity Strike
Decrease skill cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply for more damage; casting time is affected by attack speed
Overall, I can not comment too much because Tyrr Warrior do need a beneficial improvement to their class, especially in PVP.
3) Othell Rogue
"We also increased success rates for various debuff skills to allow for a more dynamic control of targets’ status."
Shadow Fake Death skill increases in MP consumption
Debuff skills have higher success rates
Blow-type damage formula modified
Due to the buff that decreases received critical damage, we lowered the percentage of decrease in blow-type damage, so that it can yield higher damage than before in the same scenario
Overall these changes are balance.
4) Yul Archer
We modified success rates for certain debuffs, and we intend to increase usefulness for powerful damage-dealing skills.
Debuff skill success rates increased
Impact Shot, Recoil Shot, Slow Shot, Bullseye
Lure Shot, Bow Strike, and other such debuffs have decreased success rates
Phoenix Arrow skill modified
Significantly decrease skill cooldown and increase MP consumption
Decrease the formally excessive skill power
Modify Stance-type skills
Change from group toggle form to standard buff form
Siege Fire Stance: Effect now increases Attack and Skill Power
Rapid Fire Stance: Effect now increases Atk. Power and decreases cooldown
Sniper Stance: Effect now increases Atk. Power and Attack Range
Doesn't seem like much will be changing with an archer since the stances describe is similar to the ones in the current patch. I just how the above changes doesn't get implemented (Changes to the Ranged Physical Damage Formula According to Distance).
5) Feoh Wizard
Increase all skill attack power by 10%
Increase success rates for debuff skills
Increase Elemental Spike’s power
Eliminate skill cooldown to make it feel more like a standard attack
Devil’s Curse and Mass Devil’s Curse skills are increased in power and thus made more useful
Increase debuff duration
Target’s M. Atk. / M. Def. decreased by 30% instead of 10%
Unleash Hell and Death Mass Unleash Hell increased in power
Spiritshots applied; casting time is affected by M. Atk speed.
Cooldown significantly decreased and MP consumption increased.
These changes are definitely beneficial but do not think is necessary. This seems to continue the cycle of overpowered classes.
6) Iss Enchanter
Increase Debuff duration to 20 sec.
Crippling Attack, Shadow Blade, Mass Crippling Attack, Mass Shadow Blade
10% increase in damage against monsters during a standard attack
Chaos Symphony skill modified
Decrease cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply and casting time is affected by attack speed.
Crazy Nocturne skill modified
Changed effect to decrease received critical rate by 50%
Increase Poem skill’s MP consumption increased
Overall, these are good changes in making the class more balance compared to other classes.
7) Wynn Summoner
Servitor Major Heal skill increased in power
Atk. Power increases when equipped with dual blunts for wizards; weapon selection also increased
Increase Summon Death Gate skill power
Increase servitor’s attack and defense
Change max number of summoned servitors
2 is now the max number of servitors that can be summoned by level
Following the decrease in numbers, the servitors’ stats will increase accordingly
The major change in this is changing summoners so that the max number of servitors allowed is 2. But this was already implemented in NA servers, so there isn't much to comment on these changes since the change has already been done.
8) Aeore Healer
Frantic Healing skill modified
Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe
Progressive Heal and Balance Heal have increased MP consumption
There isn't much change to Healer which I believe is the best choice. Healer roll is to heal and healing seems balance at the moment.
These changes all sound good to me, especially considering i play a feoh and almost never bother to debuff in pvp besides Death Breath since nothing else lands. The biggest problem that NC seems to be blind to with Feoh is that Wind has a definite advantage. The Knockback bonus Elemental Crash lands 10x more often than water, earth or fire. As a dark elf this could be a good thing for my character but it bothers me that every other feoh is also using wind. It interupts any skills and has a high chance to push back someone or something thats smacking you around. I dont blame people for using wind, but since i like the look of fire or water more it seems unfair that the bonus never lands, and that the other elements crash aspects are fairly useless. Side note I played a Spectral Master pre-GOD and never wanted anything other than my spectral lord. Id suggest making it so if the person wanted to use one summon its stats would almost equal that of two, and allow summoner to level up their old summons. I leveled up a Feoh for a dual class to play instead of my summoner because didnt like to have to use a bow and 3 (now 2) cougars. I also didnt like losing my 83 transformation, but mostly would like to use Spectral lord instead of the new ones.
8) Aeore Healer
Frantic Healing skill modified
Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe
Progressive Heal and Balance Heal have increased MP consumption
There isn't much change to Healer which I believe is the best choice. Healer roll is to heal and healing seems balance at the moment..
MP CONSUMTION..?? kidding me..?? :mad:
no changes ty xD
"we would like to level out the imbalances by increasing the power of relatively weak classes instead of decreasing the overpowered skills’ damage-dealing, unless the latter direction is imperative in the overall direction of balance adjustments."
1. For starters I applaud your attempt to solicate feedback for the overall improvement in game play and most importantly making us feel that our opinions count for something.
2. While I agree with this statement, it contradicts what you did to the summoner's in the last patch.
3. After reading your descriptions of each class, one thing was evident; you talked about archers being "formidable in pvp ", "summoners the post powerful in pve". You need to bring balance on all aspects, pve and pvp.
4. Some of your ways to bring balance are to increase mana consumption. There are way too many ways to replenish mana that makes this an altenative to bringing balance.
2) Renovating Skill Usefulness and Battle Formula
"We would like to fix this issue to allow for a more strategic use in battle as intended by the designers. As for battle formula, we will simplify it for easier recognition and correct unfair disadvantages to certain classes."
1. I would like to see the skills land equally for both pve and pvp.
2. Battle Formula Modification
1) Debuff Formula and Resistance Value Change
"Debuffs on whole have success rates which vary depending on the user and targets’ stats. This alone provides plenty of variety to debuffs, so random duration times can be problematic in terms of increased complexity. As such, we will eliminate the random factor in duration times and retain only the success/failure element as a variable, simplifying the mechanics once the debuff is successful."
1. Sounds like a winning idea.
2) Evasion Formula Change
"As such, we plan to change the formula so that damage received would not increase as evasion rate increases; this would be more rewarding for classes that wear light armor and use evasion as a main form of defense."
3) Changes to the Ranged Physical Damage Formula According to Distance
"When attacking with a bow, physical damage increases or decreases depending on the distance between attacker and target."
3. Modifications Per Class
1) Sigel Knight
Increase Shield Charge duration
Modify the King of Beasts skill
Decrease skill cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply; casting time is affected by attack speed.
Chain Strike and Chain Hydra skills have increased success rates
Superior Aggression and Superior Aggression Aura skills have decreased success rates
1. Tanks already have a lot going for them. Multiple ud's, aggression, summons ( not sure why anyone but a summoner should have one ).
2. You stated that they are " currently one of the most powerful in pvp" not sure why they need increase success rates and decrease in skill cooldown or increase in duration of shield charge.
2) Tyrr Warrior
Increase Armor Destruction and Hurricane Blaster skills’ power
30% increase in ability to decrease target’s defense
Modify Last Attack skill
Eliminate skill cooldown and make it more useful in PvP
Increase skill’s critical rate
Increase all damage-dealing skills’ success rates
Increase Superior Light Armor Mastery’s power
Modify Sonic Star and Infinity Strike
Decrease skill cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply for more damage; casting time is affected by attack speed
This class definately needs some boost to their abilities, too often do i see parties for kartias, spezion, fortuna, and many other grinds that do not have tyrr's as they are not essential in party balance.
3) Othell Rogue
"We also increased success rates for various debuff skills to allow for a more dynamic control of targets’ status."
Shadow Fake Death skill increases in MP consumption
Debuff skills have higher success rates
Blow-type damage formula modified
Due to the buff that decreases received critical damage, we lowered the percentage of decrease in blow-type damage, so that it can yield higher damage than before in the same scenario
1. Not much to comment on.
4) Yul Archer
We modified success rates for certain debuffs, and we intend to increase usefulness for powerful damage-dealing skills.
Debuff skill success rates increased
Impact Shot, Recoil Shot, Slow Shot, Bullseye
Lure Shot, Bow Strike, and other such debuffs have decreased success rates
Phoenix Arrow skill modified
Significantly decrease skill cooldown and increase MP consumption
Decrease the formally excessive skill power
Modify Stance-type skills
Change from group toggle form to standard buff form
Siege Fire Stance: Effect now increases Attack and Skill Power
Rapid Fire Stance: Effect now increases Atk. Power and decreases cooldown
Sniper Stance: Effect now increases Atk. Power and Attack Range
1. Already " formidable in pvp"! Not sure why they should have any increases in p attack and lower cool downs, I do not know how those changes would bring balance as you said they are " formidable ".
2. Same as the tank, take away there summons! They already have enough power on the battle field.
5) Feoh Wizard
Increase all skill attack power by 10%
Increase success rates for debuff skills
Increase Elemental Spike’s power
Eliminate skill cooldown to make it feel more like a standard attack
Devil’s Curse and Mass Devil’s Curse skills are increased in power and thus made more useful
Increase debuff duration
Target’s M. Atk. / M. Def. decreased by 30% instead of 10%
Unleash Hell and Death Mass Unleash Hell increased in power
Spiritshots applied; casting time is affected by M. Atk speed.
Cooldown significantly decreased and MP consumption increased.
1. Gonna start leveling my feoh now and gonna cut post short as this is obviously going to bring imbalance to a siege field. I want in! Seriously considering making them hit harder!
2. Seriously! How does doing the above bring balance?
6) Iss Enchanter
Increase Debuff duration to 20 sec.
Crippling Attack, Shadow Blade, Mass Crippling Attack, Mass Shadow Blade
10% increase in damage against monsters during a standard attack
Chaos Symphony skill modified
Decrease cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply and casting time is affected by attack speed.
Crazy Nocturne skill modified
Changed effect to decrease received critical rate by 50%
Increase Poem skill’s MP consumption increased
1. Increasing the duration is not really needed as the skill resets soon enough and actually the damage given using mass crippling and mass shadow is enough, not sure if a skill attack combined with a debuff needs an increased duration.
2. I would suggest that crippling attack and shadow blade gets a boost to their use by adding damage over time to them.
7) Wynn Summoner
Servitor Major Heal skill increased in power
Atk. Power increases when equipped with dual blunts for wizards; weapon selection also increased
Increase Summon Death Gate skill power
Increase servitor’s attack and defense
Change max number of summoned servitors
2 is now the max number of servitors that can be summoned by level
Following the decrease in numbers, the servitors’ stats will increase accordingly
1. " The most powerful in hunting". What is your opinion on the summoner in pvp? This class should be the only one with the ability to summon.
2. In the other classes you mentioned increasing skill duration, why not increase the duration in the marks, increase in damage over time, include hp recovery into one of the marks as mana is recovered. Increase pdef as they have almost the same as the feoh without the damage output of a feoh.
3. When does the rest of this patch kick in? Why aren't wynn's running around with dual blunts yet if it increases there pattack?
4. Would love to see boss jewel stats transfer to summons as this class could use the benefit.
8) Aeore Healer
Frantic Healing skill modified
Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe
Progressive Heal and Balance Heal have increased MP consumption
Conclusion
We have made it our goal to retain overall balance through increases while minimizing decreases, but things may not be perfect as everything is relative to other classes. We will test these changes and investigate possible problems before implementing to the live update.
In addition; please consider the impact you make on a class by more than just pve and pvp, It would appear that knights, yul's and feoh are already formidable in pvp and can pve as well. Yet wynn's seem less cared for to balance in pvp while they can still pve well, they lost a lot of dps and usefulness to their skills as balance life was intended and designed for 3-4 summons, greater heal is a bandaid on a severed limb. Over all your intent is great and should be applauded, all I ask is make your classes truly balanced when 1 vs 1 the battle could go either way and skill and strategy play into the outcome. Thanks for your time!
We will modify the Iss Enchanter to allow for a more comfortable battle through debuff duration increase and normal damage increase. Also, we will be changing the skill effects of Crazy Nocturne due to its lack of usefulness. But as for the Increase Poem skills, the current healing skills’ effects are exceeding the healers’ so we will make this a more selective choice by increasing MP consumption.
Increase Debuff duration to 20 sec. Crippling Attack, Shadow Blade, Mass Crippling Attack, Mass Shadow Blade
10% increase in damage against monsters during a standard attack
Chaos Symphony skill modified Decrease cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply and casting time is affected by attack speed.
Crazy Nocturne skill modified Changed effect to decrease received critical rate by 50%
Increase Poem skill’s MP consumption increased"
Crazy Nocturne not very useful. But it have 10 seconds duration, ~3 seconds cast, loss of 1000+ mp and cooldown 10 minutes XD
received critical rate by 50% for 10 sec duration, ~3 seconds cast, loss of 1000+ mp and cooldown 10 minutes not help too
What about skills Recovery Melody, Ultimate Scourge?? Chanters removed Recovery Melody from the panel of skills , because he is even more useless.
What about the racial balance of skills? PvP 1 vs 1 if you're not an orc or dark elf, then chances to win less.
How useful in PvP Last Attack skill can be? I need some more details on it.
About Sonic star, it is not worth for a 95 skill due to it's low POWER. Tyrr at lvl 95 can't even kill any lvl 85 mob in Swamp by using Sonic star----> doesn't make sense compared to Phoenix Arrow of Yul Archer
And please Feoh is enough overpowered now with Blink and Hell binding. Increase 10% of all skill power will ruin this gameplay.
PPL know how LONG you will be in the air under Hell binding effect and how hard to catch a Feoh in open field 'cause their blink skills cooldown are better than any catch skills of any class.
The Feoh Wizard’s original concept was a powerful ranged magician, but currently this class is not performing as expected. We will be doing an overhaul on MP usage during hunts and damage dealt in general. The Vortex plus Slasher combo that will be included upon diversification will help restore the original damage-dealing pattern of the wizard.
Increase all skill attack power by 10%
Increase success rates for debuff skills
Increase Elemental Spike’s power
Eliminate skill cooldown to make it feel more like a standard attack
Devil’s Curse and Mass Devil’s Curse skills are increased in power and thus made more useful
Increase debuff duration
Target’s M. Atk. / M. Def. decreased by 30% instead of 10%
Unleash Hell and Death Mass Unleash Hell increased in power
Spiritshots applied; casting time is affected by M. Atk speed.
Cooldown significantly decreased and MP consumption increased
Okay lets try this again since gm's want to delete my post because i bring the real issue why the game is not balanced, L2 Store. EWDR's that were previously in the L2 store was a very very very bad idea. People abused it making 15 weapons making it impossible for healers to wear robes and be effective. I have +4-5 seraph heavy, +7-8 all skills and i still get 3-4 shot by these +15 r99 daggers and bows. I also have +5% pdef hat which gives me roughly 5k pdef. So forcing healers to go robe or light is just nonsense.
The Feoh Wizard’s original concept was a powerful ranged magician, but currently this class is not performing as expected. We will be doing an overhaul on MP usage during hunts and damage dealt in general. The Vortex plus Slasher combo that will be included upon diversification will help restore the original damage-dealing pattern of the wizard.
Increase all skill attack power by 10%
Increase success rates for debuff skills
Increase Elemental Spike’s power
Eliminate skill cooldown to make it feel more like a standard attack
Devil’s Curse and Mass Devil’s Curse skills are increased in power and thus made more useful
Increase debuff duration
Target’s M. Atk. / M. Def. decreased by 30% instead of 10%
Unleash Hell and Death Mass Unleash Hell increased in power
Spiritshots applied; casting time is affected by M. Atk speed.
Cooldown significantly decreased and MP consumption increased
The Sigel Knight is essential to group play, and currently ranks as one of the more powerful classes in PvP. We will increase the usefulness of certain skills, especially revamping those that are powerful but not often useful. But in the case of the Aggression skills, we will have to adjust their excessive impact on melee classes in large-scale PvP and make them more useful in hunting.
Increase Shield Charge duration
Modify the King of Beasts skill
Decrease skill cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply; casting time is affected by attack speed.
Chain Strike and Chain Hydra skills have increased success rates
Superior Aggression and Superior Aggression Aura skills have decreased success rates
Aggression no longer worked, now with the diminished chance of success, which will serve to tanker?
Siegel Knight have difficulties leveling ground, now MP consumption is impossible. And that someone will want a tanker at PT, helped himself to tanking now agression does not work, not the tanker damage ... It'll be adorning the party?
I believe NCSOFT should be attentive to increase consumption of Mana practically all classes, as is currently already a delicate situation for anyone wishing to hunt or large scale PVP undoubtedly affect the gameplay.
And to give more excitement to the PVP would be interesting to consider increasing the amount of CP to all classes.
Thank you for your attention and I am sorry if anyone disagrees.
When a player sees another player use a skill which is definately over powered they report it just like the Bot Button. They have to give the name of the toon, the location, and the time. Also any other important information such as type of buffs, armor,weapon, members of the party how many were there, what the names of the other party members were the clan the alliance etc.
Then NC could check their logs and make sure that the skill was actually overpowered. This could be secretly observed by a GM as surely this skill would be used again and again After a suitable period, say 1 year or so, all those reports could be weight averaged and those skills found to be too powerfull would be reduced by say 1/3 (taking a page from the summoners).
Really its the only way for sure that the offending skills could be rightly found otherwise its just NCs idea of what is overpowered and we all know how things get screwed up with NC driving the bus.
The Sigel Knight is essential to group play, and currently ranks as one of the more powerful classes in PvP. We will increase the usefulness of certain skills, especially revamping those that are powerful but not often useful. But in the case of the Aggression skills, we will have to adjust their excessive impact on melee classes in large-scale PvP and make them more useful in hunting.
Increase Shield Charge duration
Modify the King of Beasts skill Decrease skill cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply; casting time is affected by attack speed.
Chain Strike and Chain Hydra skills have increased success rates
Superior Aggression and Superior Aggression Aura skills have decreased success rates"
If tank has a problem with Aggression, party will replace his in pvp on healer or dd.
Where the tank should have nerf, it on the Olymp with its endless UD and with great dps 1 vs 1.
1) Leveling the Increase
I agree with the proposed balancing.
2) Renovating Skill Usefulness and Battle Formula
Ok for me
2. Battle Formula Modification
1) Debuff Formula and Resistance Value Change
Ok for me
2) Evasion Formula Change
I agree
3) Changes to the Ranged Physical Damage Formula According to Distance
More or less, I think in mass pvp this formula will work perfectly, but not in 1x1. But I agree there is some changes about this issue
Classes:
1) Sigel Knight
I agree with the proposed balancing.
OBS: decrease the % of deflect skills.
2) Tyrr Warrior
I agree with the proposed balancing.
3) Othell Rogue
I agree with the proposed balancing.
4) Yul Archer
I agree with the proposed balancing.
OBS: decrease the power and damage of some skills
5) Feoh Wizard
I agree with the proposed balancing.
OBS: maybe create a new skill like the old “silence” (block magic skills).
OBS2: maybe create a new skill like the old basic “battle heal”.
6) Iss Enchanter
I agree with the proposed balancing.
OBS: increase the reuse time ofPolymorph and quick scape
OBS2: decrease the debuf time of the ultimate suspension by 30s maybe.
7) Wynn Summoner
I agree with the proposed balancing.
8) Aeore Healer
I agree with the proposed balancing.
Obs: Instead a penalty for using heavy, I suggest that healers can’t use heavy armor. They can only use robe or light.
Just another suggestion:
- Archer do not kill tank
- Tank do not kill archers and daggers that use a lot of evasion status
- Mages kill tank
- Healers do not kill any class easily, only kill with some stratety (like a augment in weapon, etc).
Pardon my English ... not enjoy. Feoh is appealing and will continue even more appealing. Aggression tanker will be weak, and look who walks failing, ask any Sigel when vai SOA or anywhere like aggression fails too. Worse, the skills that give stun rarely caught, and when caught, and started hitting some effect of nowhere, and I do not see this problem in the person holding skill, creates a cage like the Wynn Summoner and skill of Feoh posing the enemy, these two skills work perfectly when they catch, we get the time to get skill says, even if we are attacked, different from the skills that give Sigel stun, stun and when we started hitting, the effect stun disappears from nothing and hard what does the skill. No mention skill that last 15 minutes, and at switch, it takes only 30 seconds and 15 seconds to another, and Knight Frenzy, it takes 10 minutes to load and Spike Shield which lasts only about 10 seconds and takes one minute to load, that is fair?
In my opinion have to balance not only classes, but also race, the human is superior to Sigel Sigel Elf Dark Elf and White, and it is an imbalance, as well as a Dark Elf Feoh exceeds a Feoh White Elf, Human and Kamael, ie one race stands before another, but NCsoft does not seem to realize that too. A Tyrr Orc is better than a Tyrr Human Kamael, Dwarf. What I mean is that not only classes that need to be seen, but the races, Lineage II has and has 5 races and they all deserve respect, because people like to play with that race and class, but end up doing another race why that class is less than the same class of another race. And it has to be revised over time to use many skills, as most of the skills Sigel for example, has very long reuse time, and when used, the effect lasts only 30 seconds, 15 seconds and I think that's a mistake. And the correct skills that Sigel's stun, it is the only defense Sigel, ie as it is slow, it needs to be able to stun the enemy banging, but when he can stun, since failure much skill, to get beating, cuts the effect of stun and think it a mistake.
And another thing, Sigel is a tanker, it must have in my opinion a higher magic defense, since he must endure more damage, but it seems they are only looking at the tank as if it were put up in a mass pvp, like fighting only warrior, Archer, daggers and the like. In short, NCSOFT HAVE TO BALANCE CLASS AND RACES. Look at the time of skills, what needs to change, because we can not at this stage of the game to see things in a limited way. For you see, Lineage II is not only mass but also PVP 1 vs 1. That is, all classes have to be able to beat in 1 vs 1, then NCsoft has to balance classes and races, and the only difference will be the player, if he is good, will be able to defeat, but today, depending on the class , even a weak player, defeat a good player, why this class is stronger than the other ... Thank you.
Target’s M. Atk. / M. Def. decreased by 30% instead of 10%
wtf are you crazy ? its not enough they have elements at skills from level 85 and a good feoh can kill a +4-5 levels or more damage dealer without problem ...and feoh its the most OVERPOWERED class in game not the weekest ...i dunno from where you got that feoh is the weekest ...
I'll post only about the classes that i actually use, since i can't have a proper experience of the others.
Wynn Summoner
-Servitor Major Heal skill increased in power: Totally agree as long as this won't make them impossible to kill in 1v1
-Atk. Power increases when equipped with dual blunts for wizards: I'd like to know more about it, but sounds nice
-Increase Summon Death Gate skill power: Makes sense, it's a lv99 skill that it's not making so much harm for what i've seen
-Two is now the max number of servitors that can be summoned by level: Wait, it's like this for us already!
Aeore Healer
-We plan to make certain skills only available when equipped with robes or light armor in order to minimize issues such as forced armor exchanges: Looks like the only ones that like healers in heavy are healers ourselves :rolleyes: Gotta admit it sounded weird to me till I tried it, but if you gonna force us not to wear heavy, then make of Robe and Light better options for us (since nowadays in Robe we can get 3-4 shotted easily during pvp)
-Frantic Healing skill modified. Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe: I don't care much really, who want's to burn MP like that anyway when skill cooldown is more important than it's casting speed? (Brilliant Heal is the exception here).
-Progressive Heal and Balance Heal have increased MP consumption: Will make pve harder
PS: I'd like skills like Prayer and Mana Gain back
Opinion: Healers are meant to wear Robes, now NCSOFT are doing the right thing to try to balance those healers using Heavy Armour(especially for PVP). Why stop at just penalising Heavy, you could penalise Leather users too – just partially. Then introduce a skills with a mid-level cool down to increase P.def and maybe to m.def by 150 % for 60 seconds. Sorta like a second UD. Cool down being say every 10 minutes. If the cool down is too long it’s useless for the poor healers, remember they love being in the action of pvp too.
I picked the second option, namely that the proposed changes are partially adequate. I will try to stay concise when describing both the good and the problematic parts of the proposed changes. Also, in case it is relevant, my main is a 99 enchanter and my dual class is a 96 Feoh, and I actively participate in pvp and Olympiad.
Tanks: I was happy to hear that the developers see that hate spam is an issue. Close range classes are constantly hate locked, and only brilliant purge and angel's touch offer any relief. I would think that a possible alternative to a lower success rate could be that a 100% resistance is built up after a certain number of hates, in order to discourage hate spam and make it a more strategic use skill (also please address the issue of ally member's skills affecting one another, especially hate). The other issue with tanks is that they hit way to hard in Olympiad considering how much defense they have. The power rating of their skills should be lowered a bit.
Archers: They are the most powerful pvp class at 99 (except in Olympiad), and they can literally one shot others when their skills are up. I don't have an issue with them being able to deliver such damage, but then between UE and flash they are near impossible to hit for a time. So reducing the power of some of their skills is certainly one way to balance them, or in the alternative remove flash and otherwise leave them as is. However, please be careful with boosting bullseye (really thoroughly test that before implementing it).
Rogue: My only complaint with this class stems from hide and fake death use in Olympiad. Hide almost always gets a skill critical, so they hit you a few times and then hide for the majority of the match. Then they also will use fake death, and for some classes there is no way to hit them except for destruction talisman, and even then it is quite hard to target them before they go back into fake death. So my opinion is that you should remove the possibility for hide to skill crit and make the proposed MP consumption for fake death quite dramatic (or in the alternative add a reuse to it whereby they can't just toggle it back on right away).
Healer: In part due to tank hate spam, the pvp set-up is for 2 (and sometimes 3 healers) in a party to spam brilliant purge. This not only clears debuffs, but also grants an immunity for a time. While this has been necessary to deal with hate, it also renders debuffs from other classes all but useless (especially debuffs with long reuses and heavy mp cost). Perhaps a solution would be to add a party wide debuff, like the one associated with party celestial, that prevents the skill from being applied again for a certain amount of time. This would encourage more diversity in pvp groups and also make debuffs more meaningful. The other issue with healers is heavy armor, and I'm not sure that the proposed change will be enough to discourage its use. There really needs to be a significant debuff affect added to wearing armor without a mastery, like -50% cast speed and attack speed (of course this should apply to any class that wears armor without a mastery).
Feoh: Most of the changes look good, but Feoh's are already capable of dealing really devastating hits. I don't have an issue seeing their attack power increased, but their ability to blink back and forth constantly makes killing them a problem for anything except archers and other mages. Perhaps consider increasing the reuse on their blink skills if you do increase their damage dealing ability. Also, -30% to mdef might be a bit much, especially if it stacks with other debuffs. The only other issue with mages is that they aren't very desirable for pve (except for some aoe groups), and they are especially not wanted for raids. So an extra increase to damage dealt to monsters (or at least raids) would be good.
Tyrr: No issues/suggestions
Summoner: You might have nerfed them a bit too much with that patch. Perhaps a little more power added to their summons would be good.
ISS: 20 second duration on crippling and shadow blade attacks is somewhat pointless, especially with the reuse on those skills being low. 10% more damage to monsters is also pretty useless, especially considering many are either 99 or will be before this update is applied. For general pvp, it doesn't matter if enchanters hit harder, but in Olympiad it will be a nerf if their skills don't do more damage while the other classes have their damage increased. I see no problem with increasing the cost of the heal, but again you need to balance that out with an increase to pvp damage. 30 seconds might be a little low reuse on chaos symphony. I think 5 min is fine with same mp use as now, just make it so the skill actually lands (currently it is almost always resisted). If anything about the enchanter is overpowered it is probably our ability to chain angel's touch and polymorph. Essentially, it makes it near impossible to debuff us, especially in Olympiad.
My last comment is an overall one about summons in Olympiad. Please consider changing it so that damage done to a servitor/summon counts toward the overall damage done in the match. Right now classes with summons just send them after you while they kite for most of the match, and to make matters worse, melee classes tend to get stuck on the obstacles while chasing the person that is running from them.
Remember when you could go hunting with a 3 dagger party?
TH triggers UE and mirage and jumps into enemies first.
GH jumps later, gets their backs and boom...half of them dead.
WR was a freaking bunny and gets the almost dead runners.
See? three rogues in a party, very similar skills yet different playstyles and roles in a group, of course the example I just made may be inaccurate but what I'm trying to say is really simple:
First of all i'm sry for the strong language, butthat just made be mad.
"Chain Strike and Chain Hydra skills have increased success rates"
My archer now has 200+ basic evasion and still can't escape this imba skill. Even with FUE it still gets me 7/10 times with maxed out evasion. The least you can do is SERIOUSLY increase it's reuse time (like 2 or 3 mins). I searched in vain for the text "Chain Strike and Chain Hydra skills have been removed" and instead i find that they will be additionally OP-ed. Also what';s that nonsense for Yul of dealing the same dmg regardless of the range to the target. It's just wrong. This makes the Long Shot SA completely useless (and turns the whole yul class upside-down). The dmg dealt with normal p.atk should be increasing with the range, not decreasing. We're not daggers. We're R-A-N-G-E type DDs. It's like removing p.def from tanks. This was something i really hated in H5, you can get almsot 2k Range but the dmg after 1.5k decreases and makes it pointless.
And finally... very very VERY please, remove the vampiric and reflect from the range atacks. It's totall nonsense. Or at least remove it from the normal physical atk. and leave it on some dmg dealing skills.
Only class that needs a boost in my opinion is the Tyyr Warrior. I dont play a Tyyr but I can honestly say with a unbiased opinion their damage output is severely gimp compared to other classes. There only good for CCing targets and survivalbility in PvP in all honesty. People who play this class, much like the dagger in the previous boost to them, deserve a damage output boost.
Feohs however need a 10-20% NERF not boost. Like.... whos making these observations? People who dont play this game and test damage output with a undergeared 85 toon? Anyone would tell you atm Feohs have by far the most obscure and outrageous damage output in the game right now... beyond maybe archers with full epics, str tats, and OEd blessed bow.
Thankfully i have been leveling my nuker on the side for fun.
And the ISS changes. I play ISS and currently like the way it is. Possibly we could get a boost in damage dealt with my debuff skills but I make my class work quite well. But whats got me worried is this: from what i gathered, you want to nerf the land rate of debufs, but want to increase the amount of time when they land.... if thats the case you mine as well make us a useless class that just box buffs. Hopefully this is not the intended direction you want to go.
Summoners are fine. Don't need to be increase or decreased anymore. The summoners that are qqing atm are just lazy idiots who dont understand that their not a 1 button, hold atack with pets class, but they actually have a TON more skills to use that increase their damage two fold.
Healers are currently OP atm because they can use heavy armour and still have good cast speed. That will change with next update so that will work.
This is the last thing that should happen in the game. If you plan on doing this, you may as well just make a GOD Mode and put only Feoh in it! Nobody else will stand a chance.
Feoh Wizard
Increase all skill attack power by 10%
Increase success rates for debuff skills
Increase Elemental Spike’s power
Eliminate skill cooldown to make it feel more like a standard attack
Devil’s Curse and Mass Devil’s Curse skills are increased in power and thus made more useful
Increase debuff duration
Target’s M. Atk. / M. Def. decreased by 30% instead of 10%
Unleash Hell and Death Mass Unleash Hell increased in power
Spiritshots applied; casting time is affected by M. Atk speed.
Cooldown significantly decreased and MP consumption increased.
Well from the point of view of an Aero Healer, it seems that healer class is getting a bit nerfed with the other classes being powered up whilst the healer class gets restriction for using the heavy sets. Since all classes are being boosted why bother in nerfing that stat for the healer? Soon Healers will request to a skill mastery to compensate for such boosts.
I did vote to "The proposed balancing measures seem partially adequate."
Reason:
Sigel Knight:
The Sigel Knight has way too much reflect damage with classes which has high dmg abilities but low hp and defense like Othell Rogue or Feoh Wizard really hard to win against a Sigel Knight.
Feoh Wizard:
Maybe the improved Mdef decrease from debuff with the 30% is too much around 20% would be the normally, but as the Warrior Harmony get +14% mdef and not -9% mdef (as it is before the Glory Days) I can understand the changes.
Aeore Healer:
While you won't remove the Heavy Armor or Light Armor abilities from the healer they will too strong against Othell Rogues.
The proposed balancing measures seem partially adequate.
Why? Put yourself in the situation of a healer who has spend all of his money on heavy equipment, matching game's standards since almost a year. He or she wasted the money and cannot get them back because the items are bound.
It's almost like with the wynn summoners. I personally know a guy who deleted his wynn dual class after deleting his third summon. You were right that summoners were overpowered and were right to nerf them but that's not the point. - this game bases on a very long-term planning strategy which means you prepare for some things for months. Now the summoners had to invest more into magical weapons instead of bows which they had already bought. (and cannot get their money back because of unindentified items).
In addition I'd like to give my opinion about yul archer changes. I think setting stances as self-buffs is a bad idea. We already use Quick Fire, Mind's Eye, not to mention evasion boosting skills. Stances are great skills in place of Vicious Stance and Accuracy. They also improve the strategy, i use:
-Battle Rhapsody + Siege Stance + Mind's Eye, regular attack,
-Quick Fire + Siege, using skills,
-Rapid Stance with regular attack and skills,
-Sniper for very long range attacks, randomly with Quick Fire to decrase p. atk. in favour of atk. spd. If you get rid of range-damage thing Sniper looses it's point.
Stances became an enjoyable part of Yul gameplay, at least for me.
After class diversification I'd love to see hp restoring skills for Moonlight Sentinel Yul Archer.
About range not playing any role in damage dealing, it's a good thing but not in the current state. Why? Othells and Tyrrs get close to you in a second and you can't really get rid of them. Slowing shot doesn't make any sense at all as othell teleports to you and tyrr jumps to you with a single skill.
Also very very VERY important thing - make set bonuses UNUSABLE if the charr doesn't have the coresponding armor mastery. All the toons now r running in heavy after 95 and it's plain stupidity...
I have some feedback concerning the possible class balance and diversification changes. Id first like to say that I am absolutely not qualified to debate class skills VS another classes skills, for example, damage-dealing classes and they're counter parts, but I am an experienced player and have played many classes, and seen how they work in action.
With that being said, I would like to comment on the PvE aspect of class skills and they're roles in parties. The only reason I posted on this subject, is because I read that tanks hate and hate aura could have a chance of failing. I should be able to hold aggro based on my armor, resistance and health. Not because of random luck when I cast my aggro skills. Losing my hold on a monster in PvE because my hate skill failed, is as bad as an aeore healing me for 1 hp.
What ever changes the developers decide to make, I beg you, please dont effect the way classes are expected to perform in parties. If a tank cant hold aggro, it should be because they're dead. If a healer cant keep them alive, its because the boss hits the tank too hard, and if the damage-based classes cant bring it down, its because they're too weak.
I agree with the changes imposed on all classes except the Healer. I'd like to add to Fenice point of view that healer's consideration of being strong at this current stage is based on current stats of the other classes.
Taking into consideration the new stats as being proposed in this poll, its working the opposit way for the healer class. Many are happy to nerf the healer from using heavy sets and most probably only considering olympiad on 1 vs 1 basis. In pvp the scenario will be completly different causing unbalance and a pvp fight which as it is now its more interesting coz it last longer, will return to last only a couple of seconds
I feel like all classes will be powered and othel + aoer nerfed... I dont remember othels using a lot of debuffs. They never were overpowered since SS isn't working in its full and now you power al lclasses but not othel its like soon it will become weakest one.
HI i read the patch note and i trust ncosft developed team.
there is no game in mmo,rpg or in any other game that is full adjust in pvp
some classes beat other class some dont, some are support classes and thats the beauty of pvp which only LINEAGE 2 IS THE BEST PVP GAME AMONG ALL MMO.
ok sometimes they are some mistake that l2 community must reporte and developed team must fix.
some classes are from the begging too strong such as mage and some classe become strong after some lvls such as tyr and thats +in gameplay.
a big mistake that must fix now is the healer that can wear hvy armor with no penalty at all, the endless mp and heal healer must heal only hp not cp big fail in mmo.also healer do much dmg than a dd?is it right?
that was my opinion,
again nice job from ncsoft west and sace that ask ppl opinion keep up the good work
Aero Healer
NCsoft wants 3 healers per party? :eek:
Progressive Heal and Balance Heal have increased MP consumption
Back in old days, in orbis, I had quite a trouble with managing mp in a party of 3 daggers + summoner. And i still shiver from 2 mage + archer party(2 healers in such party) So if they plan on increasing mp consumption for healers and others, logically you would need 3rd healer in a party :p
So either NCsoft forgets about all that "increased MP consumption" or they boost mp of healers, or 3 healers per party
And while we are still on that mp topic: before GoD ee or se could actually recharge a mage. Even if he continued nuking, you could actually see his mp go up. In GoD recharge is quite useless.
The solution would be to : increase the power and decrease cool down of the skill
an issue in which wearing heavy armor is more beneficial
And you didnt ask yourself why they started wearing heavy? Maybe it is because wearing a robe, is like jumping naked into a cage of hungry bears? People will admire both your lack of intelligence and desire to die. In Aion (for example) healers wear heavy, and there is no problem with it (well, not really heavy: it has less p def than heavy, and more than light)
Right now, wearing a heavy set, I can still get 1shot-1kill (no debuff on me).
And to all of you who are crying "they should not wear heavy sets, I should be able to kill healer alone with 2 hits" - your healers will die the same quick death. And with "increasing damage-dealing skills of everything that moves" death will come even quicker. What brings us back to the days, where healers were dark crystal robe set for cast speed ( reminds you something?) and there where dd with 150 att on their back. You literally lived as long, as celestial shield on you:D So if the death rate of healers increases, and coll down of resurrection is the same --> you need 3rd healer in a party:p
The solution would be : decrease power of damage-dealers (not an option, due to human nature), increase p def of robe/light sets (not the way you did in glory days.) or give some kind of new robe/light armor mastery that will increase pdef in robe/light or decrease damage you get or something like that.
Frantic Healing skill modified
Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe
what is the point of Frantic Healing skill while wearing robe? without it I have like 1900+ cast speed. If it would increase healing power "Increases healing power by 50%. During skill use, increases MP Consumption by 30%." that would be at least logical.
And you should also reconsider changing the formula of heal. Right now "power" of healing depends mostly of m.atack of weapon. So basically (in lindvior) cardinal will heal the strongest( he has prayer), ee will be the fastest healer (cool down as passive skill) and se - a nuker?. That m attack is useless for healer (well except oly I guess, but still cool down > m attack in oly QQ ) So either change the formula (well change in existing formula m attack of weapon with m attack of character) or give some se a normal second skill
Sorry for bad English
5) Feoh Wizard
Increase all skill attack power by 10%
Increase success rates for debuff skills
Increase Elemental Spike’s power
Eliminate skill cooldown to make it feel more like a standard attack
Devil’s Curse and Mass Devil’s Curse skills are increased in power and thus made more useful
Increase debuff duration
Target’s M. Atk. / M. Def. decreased by 30% instead of 10%
Unleash Hell and Death Mass Unleash Hell increased in power...
As the song that gives magic defense was grouped into harmony assistant, hunting classes are more vulnerable to mages.
Even more powers to this class? We have fighters that use harmony assistant? :rolleyes:
Wynn, Tyrr and Feoh the chars are "fad" on the server. :D:D:D
The debuffs we have are useless on pvp cause never land,they dont land even on pve(remember soultaker had the ultimate debuffs for raids too?) while all other classes can raise their mdef big time,we were the class that couldnt raise our pdef at all.
These changes are logical and still not complete.
It doesn't sound fair to me that the healers have to spend even more mana in healing spells, given the fact that they live from using them, it'd just make it even more difficult to be healer ...
TYRR stuns 100%, have REVIVAL, and leaves in disadvantage many other classes, im not against the tyrr warrior but maybe revival should be removed since it is taking more damage less cooldown and bla bla, the other classes cant heal themselves, tyrrs heal with revival, totem, have stuns, is too much advantage comparing it to other classes. im totally against revival it should be removed.:confused:, tyrr is like all the *tyrr going classes* combined in 1 awakened character, leave it the totems but revival is unfair, or atleast leave it in the warlord path tyrr, only there, feoh is ok, is easy to kill and kills you easy too.
Yul:
The proposed changes to the ranged physical damage formula according to distance are ok. As an archer, I didn't find my play experienced significantly diminished as a consequence of this formula. In fact, it forces an archer to be more actively involved in combat -- playing with their distance, kiting, flashing, etc. to get into a better position to deal the most damage. I imagine some players feel this slows down their solo xp. And, in truth, it does. But I did appreciate the realism of the effect and, in time, got used to it.
I agree that an archer can deal significant damage in PvP. Open field, group PvP, that is. Olympiad is a different story. In Olympiad, archers saw some balance in the months prior to goddess. We obtained a couple strong attack skills that leveled the playing field in the Olympiad and made competing therein more enjoyable. We are now back to an Olympiad experience that is exhausting and tedius for the average player. I would really like to see something more made of evasion. I dodge almost nothing despite having the best evasion in the game. Please address that the Yul is defeated by almost every other class of equal level in the game in Olympiad. My boxed Iss wins more battles. Strange.
Nukers:
I find my expererience against nukers to be imbalanced somehow. Binding seems to have an extremely high land rate and little in the way of a counter.
Wyn:
They needed the damage nerf. And they got it. Bravo.
Healer:
I like the way that healers are setup now. I dont mind that some healers are wearing heavy armor. They remind me of clerics. Or those of us that tried to play "battle prophets" back in the day. It seems that casting speed should be impacted to some extent if a player opts to wear heavy armor. I've played my aore in all three armors now and don't really feel that much of an impact on my casting speed or, rather, my ability to keep up with the healing needs of my party.
Tyr:
I like the tyrs as they are now. If there isn't going to be a pullback on Nukers as there was to the Wyn, these folks should get a little damage increase attention. Not much, but a little.
Daggers and Iss:
I like these toons as the currently exist.
I personally think you should hold off any major changes until half of the people have reached end game level and understand pvp at those levels!
I play a healer, any 95+ party has no problem dropping a healer heavy or not if they know what they are doing!
You clearly state you don't wanna force full armor changes but by denying frantic healing to a healer in heavy puts him at an instant disadvantage extra pdef or not.. Healers already gain ++++++ mdef and extra health if they choose to wear robes or light..
If you want pvp to be over in 10/30 seconds as rhaps and minds eye is open so both healers are killed in 2/3 hits then you are heading in the right direction..
Healer class is getting nerfed for good with all other classes getting power up whilst healer is getting a penalty. Instead of this change, healer should be given a heavy armor mastery to withstand all this damage and there balance will be good I guess and ofc remove all these negative effects
Healer is catergorised as a strong class with the current classes stats, with this change we're going back to a 1 shot healer and 5 seconds pvp.
Dunno how you think all this is balance, if this is implemented there's going to be another major spam to strengthen the healer class.
The biggest problem is not only balance the classes, what has to be done, not only change the damage, or something, the Feoh is the class more appealing game because their critical magic is too high, and still will increase their damage. The problem is much bigger, as I mentioned. Not only balance the classes, but also races, since a Feoh Dark Elf this Feoh being superior to other, Sigel Human this one above the other Sigel coming from Eve's Templar and Shillen Templar. Like Wyn Summoner Dark Elf this superior to others Wynn Summoner of other races. You know why, why NCSoft did not look closely at the races, the stats are very unbalanced. For example, Sigel, class I play, the more Sigel Elf White defends with shield, but that does not include skills, then ends up not being any advantage to defend with shields, on a PVP with a Human Sigel Sigel and a Dark Elf, the Sigel elf White leads ultimately disadvantage by having very low STR. Even if your DEX is higher, it does not influence positively, because this is taking advantage of the damage in a given PVP Skills of Sigel vs Sigel.
That is, there is a huge difference on that, then NCsoft's biggest problem is just this, like I'm Sigel, I'm just basing my class, and I think rather absurd to have certain skills of Sigel duration of 15 minutes, 10 minutes , and the most appealing Feoh has skills and takes less than 1 minute. But I agree that we must find a solution, but today we see some imbalance in my opinion in races than in classes. Look for example how we Sigel in the game, most all human, because they ended up being benefited with the fourth job, I fought with a Human Sigel him being lvl 89, using the same level of equipment, the same weapon and the same level of elements set , and found that the human has more physical defense, more HP, even the elf with the same white and just lost CON, STR's why Sigel human is much higher, and the fact defend with shield did not help much because the defense with shield does not eliminate the damage, only decreases.
To really be a balance, you have to treat class by class, and race by race. What good is my Sigel derived from Eva's Templar shield to defend, if only maintains normal damage, not defending skills and what good is that if the skills high damage and will not defend it'll take damage and high skill. That is, human Sigel are superior and I think that's a mistake, it is very annoying to look at the sides, and mostly see only human Sigel, and the playing of Sigel Sigel Elf and Dark Elf White, is that like the race , yes they love the breed, others play with more classes and racial dominates due to the fact that he is better. For the people of this research which class best and which race too, so you actually see Iss Orc instead of watching Iss Song, Iss dancer, Iss prophet, this is more complicated Iss other people invest in them because an Orc Iss shown with higher defense, and even though it has the same speed atack the other, the skills give you an advantage, because it depends on the atack speed.
Same as Feoh, this guy in the Feoh Dark Elf became Feoh superior to humans, elves and white kamael. That is, there was a racial imbalance also, like the Orc Tyrr stands on human and dwarf kamael. Like the Aero Healer is the only one where both the Elf and Human White stands out, but the Dark Elf Healer ended up backwards. The Daggers, wow, who knew the Daggers Dark Elves would stand on the White Dagger Elves and Humans, the latter two also became rare. That is, the problem is much bigger, and I guarantee that moving a bit in Status, help improve, because the STR is much more human, but much higher than the White Elf for example, and is slightly lower than the Dark Elf, but the DEX Elf White is larger than the Human and the Dark Elf, but not exactly much higher, which ends up not favoring a PVP class Elves for example, proof that the high DEX not guarantee anything Dagger in favor of the White Elf, since the skill has power too high, and it ended up favoring the classes with higher STR.
That is, even if the Elf for example has the highest casting speed of all races, he has the lowest INT INT today and how critical influence on magic demage, just the advantage Elf White Feoh such as being low, the only class Elf mage in the White ends up doing well in question is the Healer, and even there, will depend on the speed that the skill carries. Even the STR changed, ie, the attributes that give the status has changed, and not NCSoft noted that it would damage certain races and favoring others. So if we look at the races that came with new earning status and his bonus was giving Human, Orc and Dark Elf and Elves were harmed Whites, Dwarfs and Kamaels. That is, the number of class that the Dark Elf fared better and took advantage was: Wynn Summoner, Wizard Feoh and Daggers.
Class where humans fared benefited due to their bonuses and new Status is: Sigel, Archer and Healer. Orc fared better as Iss Enchanter and Tyrr. If we examine the classes of races, Humans, Orcs and Dark Elves also excels as second best, leaving Dwarves, Elves and White Kamaels as the biggest victims of the fourth job, and changes of status, because once the DEX balanced everything for he had attributes much larger bonuses than it has today, shield defense rate by example was an attribute of DEX, now became the attribute CON and that helped to get even better as Human Sigel. That is, analyze everything and see that not only is class problems, but problems races. The biggest problem is precisely that, as the skills are extremely apelonas today, the power of them are tall, breeds that have more STR and INT do better in everything, no use having more DEX and WIT, because it does not help more balance because apelonas skills, with larger breeds with STR and INT are dominating, and who has higher DEX and WIT are being repressed.
So I do not know what to think of NCsoft how to balance that. For the third JOB yes were balanced, the old status were more balanced because the bonuses that were giving each other status, ie the NCsoft killed races White Elf, Dwarf and Kamael in favor of races Human, Orc and Dark Elves. For the status + bonuses that status now give skill + power today is more advantage that has higher DEX or higher WIT and ready. I hope they read this and send our observations to NCsoft.
Healer: In part due to tank hate spam, the pvp set-up is for 2 (and sometimes 3 healers) in a party to spam brilliant purge. This not only clears debuffs, but also grants an immunity for a time. While this has been necessary to deal with hate, it also renders debuffs from other classes all but useless (especially debuffs with long reuses and heavy mp cost). Perhaps a solution would be to add a party wide debuff, like the one associated with party celestial, that prevents the skill from being applied again for a certain amount of time. This would encourage more diversity in pvp groups and also make debuffs more meaningful. The other issue with healers is heavy armor, and I'm not sure that the proposed change will be enough to discourage its use. There really needs to be a significant debuff affect added to wearing armor without a mastery, like -50% cast speed and attack speed (of course this should apply to any class that wears armor without a mastery).
You don't get it...and Sense Sace or someone else deleted my previos post, You don't get to see my responce to IAquillesI.
With out heavy armor all monster, and players in pvp will kill us in 2 hits or less. Because the P df of robes is complete garbish. The only chance you have of survival is to have a+8 set/blessed, and +P df hat bonus. Because if you have 2-3 ppl hitting you, you will die in less 10seconds.
Healer is the first targeted in every pvp.
So what will you do with out decent P df?
Feohs can already kill healers in less 4s, the total duration of Hell binding. So giving them 10% more DMG boost is not a healthy solution to game balance.
Frantic healing is a skill that I never use. I don't want to burn my mp faster for a increase in cast speed. My skills already go off fast enough, what I need is for skills to cool down at a faster rate. So they become more useful! It would of made more sense to decrease mp consumption to increase cast time.
Fenice, I already asked for that. Skill mastery for heavy, during the class balance discusion topic. Why because that's what Healers need to stay competitive with the rest of the classes.
But now that NCsoft will boost all the DD's mp consumption on alot of their skills is a stealth nerf to healers....cause we're going to have alot more problems with managing mp in both pve, and worst yet during pvp!! They should of gone with a decrease in mp consumption...not a increase!
Well some changes seem to be nice..Also wth are you doing with healers..We started as robes,then we made to wear duals/heavy etc etc..Now you came to destroy our MP(which was already),and go us back to robe..OFC i prefer to wear robe,but as soon as other classes are balanced, not OP to give you at same lvl that dmg..You made feohs so op..That's all..If you go on like this with healers,you will make many ppl quit,and there is allready problem with healers and tanks..
Delf aeore here..Ty
This^
I'm already thinking about quitting. This is added incentive.
My constant party will be p.i.s.s.e.d if I quit. Because then they wont have a healer any more, as we only run with 1 healer. Our wynn would rather stay in transformations all the time, instead of staying out of transformations and using mana share. So I'm always having to mp our tyrr because he burns MP at an increadable rate. Not to mention the Feoh in my CP also.
I don't want to play with robes pre 99. I don't want to play with light armor, as there is no set bonuses that makes 1 lick of a sense to take it. I don't want a increase in any of our skills. I am tired of all dd's being leaps and bounds better then me in pve. I'm tired of being forced to group up to make any XP at all....Balance isn't a 1 way street, you can't just boost DD's and neglect the support. Soon all dd's will be 99 and all the healers and enchanters, and tanks will still be 97!
Well some changes seem to be nice..Also wth are you doing with healers..We started as robes,then we made to wear duals/heavy etc etc..Now you came to destroy our MP(which was allready),and go us back to robe..OFC i prefer to wear robe,but as soon as other classes are balanced,not OP to give you at same lvl that dmg..You made feohs so op..Thats all..If you go on like this with healers,you will make many ppl quit,and there is allready problem with healers and tanks..
Delf aeore here..Ty :confused:
I do not speak English and used a translator.
About WYNNS believe in trying to reduce their power in hunting this individual taking the class totally unbalanced with other classes that the body will have increased power, avenging cubic summon has no effect description and your hold is 1 second skill does not cancel loses the target only 1 second that does not change anything. The Wynn is the class that has less p def in def and all that makes a difference but it does not help to transfer hp, p def on def to summon up the summoners do not have to stay alive if the summon dies, the time summon disappears and is able to summon another lot. not see chances to succeed in pvp Wynn 1x1 party vs party.
I believe that if the damage received was divided by two summons and an improvement in marks could balance more with other classes.
And an idea that could put the next update would be the class that has no skill mastery not able to equip armor as with the kamael.
For me everything seems not bad,just don't understand why still OP Feoh? Aren't they already monsters in pvp... About tyrr warriors it seems nice changes,but considering that our most hard skills have quite long cooldown(then matching against othells) I would like to offer reduce power bomber cooldown atleast to 15~10sec and let's say hurricane blaster(sonic rage old days) would be nice skill without cooldown which now is 1sec so you could spam it at least a little like in old days of gladi :).. That's just my opinion,because othells have 4main skills which all of them have 4-5sec cooldown and tyrr:
Mega Strike 7sec, power bomber 30secs?,hurri storm 10sec, hurri rush 15sec at least armor destr have 2sec,don't remember erruption exactly but it's not quite long too.
I chose option 2 because some of these changes are good while others are problematic and really dont change anything. I am a 99 Othell Rogue on Chronos and I have done Olympiad/PvP competitively the entire update.
There are quite a few problems with end-game pvp now, and I'm going to base what I say off of several PvP's I've participated in where both parties are all 99 with OE'd weapons. As of the now the pristine pvp comp of a party for DD's (the support is pretty standard) at end-game is:
1 Archer - Absurd killing power
1 Dagger - The disabler/high dps
1 Warrior - Armor destruction/high dps
The synergy of these dd's in a pvp group is just ridiculous, if they assist well whatever the Main Assist targets WILL die. If we come across a party with a Summoner/Wizard, you can count on it that they will be -1 dd the entire fight because we will put them down very quickly.
Wizards/Summoners literally have no chance against the archer/dagger/warrior comp, at this point in the game they are forced to wear a shield and heavy armor to even survive longer than 2 seconds in pvp. That being said they are useless really in 7v7 pvp, their only place is seiges, and maybe olympiad.
Anyways, to get on the main topic of the changes:
Battle Formula Modifications: These are all great changes in my opinion and the idea of making all debuffs useful is amazing. As of now I'd say each class has 4-5 skills that really are pretty useless and this should fix that problem.
Tank: I think tanks are in a really good spot at this point in the game. All of the changes except the decrease of success rate of hate aura and single target hate wont affect pvp. However, these changes will buff tanks alot in olympiad which is really un-warranted and not a good change in my opinion.
Healers: Alot of healers have +10-+15 WIT (they are pretty much capped out for cast speed in heavy) so they dont even use frantic healing, that being said I like the "Accordingly, we plan to make certain skills only available when equipped with robes or light armor in order to minimize issues such as forced armor exchanges" idea, but healers still wont choose robes/light over heavy. I'm not sure why people are upset with healers wearing heavy armor, but forcing healers to wear robes in open pvp/olympiad is a bad idea. You would seriously have to decrease the amount of damage 99 dd's can put out to force this upon healers. Without heavy these healers would have no chance vs 99 archer/warrior/dagger in this game at its current state.
Enchanters: Very minor changes, alot of those are very situational so they wont effect much. Not much to comment on.
Yul Archer: If I were a developer I would 100% avoid increasing this classes kill power, if you guys do significantly increase the land rate those debuffs (bulls eye mainly) they will shred everything. Make sure you test bulls eye extensively before you make that decision.
Tyrr Warrior: Be careful with armor destruction, it is one of those skills that can become unbalanced very easily. Just another skill to make sure it's tested thoroughly.
Othell Rogue: I really like the changes stated. However, the change to fake death... thats really not going to do anything. Fake Death is generally a bad skill and a last resort to use it, I dont see much you could change with it, other than make it have a cooldown. A change I would like to suggest though is taking away hides ability to crit, just the sheer fact that it can possibly crit takes away from overall skill/strategy in Olympiad for rogues.
Summoners: They were made useless when healers hit 94 and got party cleanse, they are a completely debuff dependant DD. Their only strong place is in Olympiad. The class as a whole could use a major buff in pvp.
Feoh Wizard: I think the problem with this class is survivability not damage, they are just too squishy. Contrary to popular belief they are not good in 7v7 when everyone is 99. Not sure if giving them more dps is a good idea or not.
Overall, most of what I read are great ideas for the game. I love that NcSoft is taking the time to do these polls to hear the players 2 cents. The new approach you guys are taking when deciding on changes for L2 is very good. Thank you, I appreciate it.
My proposal would be to leave healer classes completely alone and implement other changes to the other classes first!
Currently in a good pve aoe party 2 healers with a rebirth every 5 minutes can still be pushed for mana especially if something goes wrong in pty (a couple die someone dc's etc)
Messing with the mana consumption could cause some serious issues. If you thinking of increasing the damage for some of the hardest hitting classes you should really consider giving healers the options to choose from any armor with no penalties!
I like the idea about increasing dmg output of feoh. At 97+ lvls nukers are very easy to kill with hits for 15k from tyrrs/yuls. Nuker however almost never deals such a dmg. New epics are easy to obtain and all classes easily can have exceptionally high m.def. That makes feoh to hit for like 2-3k when he receives 10k+ hits from other classes. Only crit from Elemental Destruction can make a significant dmg at hight levels. And it doesn't happen so often. Feoh with worst survivability (which is logical) should have highest dmg output. Typical glass cannon. Secondly, it would make feoh more useful at instanced raidbosses. Seeing all the time "something LF DD (no feoh)" is sad.
At 85ish lvls feoh maybe is strong. But at 97+ it's sad story. Much worse dmg in PvP than yul, much, much worse dmg on raids than yul, worse survivability than yul. Just worse. Now we have two ranged DDs and feoh is just worse. This update could fix it and make both these classes good.
All I say is about normally geared players without +15 stuff which is unaffordable for 99% of server population.
first i would like to say nice try about getting feedback from other players before you actually make changes and let them do your job. very smooth.
i would like to get started with a german quote:
"zu viele koche verderben den brei"
meaning loosely translated: too many cooks will ruin the meal.
now to get straight into the details, i have posted this a while ago and would like to go straight from there:
i don't think there is anything wrong with the current awakening system itself, except that it should be more refined and you should be allowed to choose a more refined path. what i mean by this is like this...
absolute biggest mistake ever was made on the
dwarf classes:
daggers where added to BH at first to improve their damage, but they didnt and ex-BH's make lousy rogues. it only gave them the illusion that it would because they did more hits per second for a lot less damage and get only nearly half the skill sets of other dagger classes. the ones that cause real difference and for example give adventurers or other real dagger uses the edge.
in my opinion, and i say this since before GoD came out:
WS
should turn naturally into a tank class and BH should turn into Tyrr.
here are some of the reasons that drive me:
my own WS was always very strong with lots of HP and defense but not too much damage on my own... like tanks. i always wanted to see shield skill added to WS since 1hd blunt + shield is logical and shield defense is calculated into most heavy sets. 2hd blunts where fine but not nearly as good. WS in my personal opinion was the biggest fun class in game until you made it useless by turning it into a dagger class. force them to switch from heavy gear and strong heavy weapons into a light armor using class armed with a butter knife.
i also raised a BH and noticed long time ago that when BH vs BH PVP at same level the BH with the 1hd blunt would win over the BH with 1hd/2hd daggers. lets face it, they are a heavy class and here the same as WS i think its a mistake to ruin this class by awaken it into a dagger. however i know some players prefer to be in light armor since shield skills are missing. now what i would loved to have seen and also suggested back then is to turn BH into a Tyrr after awakening instead, because thats the logical path. they already have sword/blunt and pole skills, are a different play style than WS and deserve to do damage for once.
rogues
should not gain spoil/plunder skills after awakening (most are not using it anyways and its useless for PVP). it makes no sense. i even noticed that some "real" daggers see the plundering more as a burden and prefer not to plunder at all while in group unless they are being asked to. i actually see a negative parallel to BH class. as in BH doesnt do damage with daggers and only gets a small skill set compared to true dagger users. the same with plunder: think about the spoil skills with integrated armor crushing, spoil bomb, aoe spoiling and sweeping, etc ... and awaken daggers only get 1 plunder skill.
with the recent changes made i think they are very happy now and changing fake death is not a significant change and they should be able to live with that if it makes the developers sleep better.
instead the BH should awaken as tyrr and should be the ONLY class allowed to spoil. meaning tyrrs shouldnt have to learn this skill but BH should keep the spoil skills after awakening and being allowed to improve them further. so they can still prefer to AOE and AOE spoil/sweep which is in their nature.
mages
should have different paths. i used to like the diversity about mages and after one feoh class it felt like a let down. mages should have 4 different elements: fire (sorc), water (LE), dark (necro) and wind (SH)
(plz note: i changed into dark instead of earth on purpose because it's logical follow up). mages should not have their attack power further increased, they should be made harder to kill in the end game because they die too easy/fast. 60k matk is nice and gives you great power but is useless if you get 2 shot by any archer. to avoid this the arcane barrier skill should be improved to a way that the mages MP absorbs a lot more damage to make them last longer while under fire (for example converts 10 dmg into 1 MP instead, or even more, this would require testing) so the mage can use this skill to actually defend himself and doesnt run out of MP within 2 seconds and becomes useless. the light elfs prevision skill could be converted into an all mages skill, last longer and evade more for lets say 30 seconds duration instead of the current 5 seconds.
sigils should not decrease evasion because they are not actual shields and as such useless. they should be useable without decrease of the current evasion even further. again: most important is right now is to make mages survive longer in PVP.
i would like to see devils curse and mass devils curse significantly increase on the land rate. the only targets it seems to land on is blue mobs and kartia guards; and is currently a total non-factor in PVP/PVE.
summoner:
i think that if you want to change anything to summoners then they should have their own path/pets again. let DE have reapers and LE the cougars and both classes can also summon a bear. to be honest since summoners have 2 instead of 3/4 summons, i am killing them just as fast as before and i dont agree with your argument about them being the strongest PVP/PVE class, i actually am convinced they are the weakest compared between rogue/warrior/archer/mage and their only benefit is in compensation for uber gear and super enchanted bows.
reaper users should be 2hd staff users and for cougars i would like to see dual swords and blunts.
tyrr warriors
should not get another overhaul. i actually use this this class as a point of reference and compare the other classes against it.
the only change i would suggest and that is along with all other classes is to increase the benefits of light armor. raise the mp reg, evasion and add light armor specific skills, like when you use a 1hd/light weapon you should have significant more evasion then for example use of heavy armor+pole.
also i highly recommend to NOT tamper with armor destruction and hurricane blast! they are working fine as is and have a strong land rate.
again, i think the tyrr is working right now as its supposed to be working and tampering with this class would result into forced changes for many other classes.
i like the changes in yul's,
but you have to be very carefull to not overpower them even more. it a very fine line you are on here...
sigil knights
have become a really fine class. from the old tanks they went a long way and i embrace all the changes made in the past. i also like the planned changes for the future, but am also missing some stuff.
like HP booster should be brought back and OE'able as passive skill.
you said: "We will increase the usefulness of certain skills, especially revamping those that are powerful but not often useful. But in the case of the Aggression skills, we will have to adjust their excessive impact on melee classes in large-scale PvP and make them more useful in hunting."
but then later suggest to "Superior Aggression and Superior Aggression Aura skills have decreased success rates" and that doesnt really makes sense to me.
based on your initial suggestion i would say add a debuff to agression as in targets decrease in attack/cast/run speed decrease while effect lasts. also IF you change the land rate you should apply some sort of compensation like 'while effect lasts, the 5 second debuff is active, the target should not be able to switch back to its original target' (please note: i dont agree to change the land rate). that should then apply for PVP as it applies in PVE on raids, etc.
i embrace the modification to king of beasts skill and the 360 AOE damage should get the same attack power added as the forward power, only then it will make a significant change and impact in AOE.
noble sacrifice should not be a single target skill but applied to the entire party otherwise be renamed into "tiny sacrifice".
healers:
" Accordingly, we plan to make certain skills only available when equipped with robes or light armor in order to minimize issues such as forced armor exchanges." great idea, i love it. make them loose the heavy gear. instead of equip heavy and go +15 on wit they should start thinking +men and +con instead.
enchanters
i will not touch here, i just simply not know enough about them and use mine as buffers and nothing more. all i can say is i like the class especially in duo with my tank and would like to see a damage increase and a healing power decrease of some sort.
8) healer
"Frantic Healing skill modified
Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe
Progressive Heal and Balance Heal have increased MP consumption"
And my p.def?
And my investment (armor and dyes)?
DDs gogo hunt healers! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1NyIsZXeqU
by increasing the damage output of DDs and not boosting healing power form healers how i am supposed to keep my party alive ?? i allrdy have a hard time healing ppl wich are receing huge amount of damage with my ''slow'' reuse delay on skills
wich is balling out of control with DDs +10% damage
dont forget about ur event/promos with DEWR where ppl running around with bow+15 with 45345435435345345 Patk
mana issues is allrdy known for many partys wich is gonna be even worse with this patch
healers being 1 shot/2shot whatever is going to happen with robe \o/
i really dislike random partys now u wil not find me in ANY random party but my const party only
wil see how everything is going when this patch is getting implemented if i dislike this patch just like i read it right now.... i must look for diffrent game to waste my time on
The reason is because this means that player's will not be able to use their skills as much, and if you aren't using your skills then you are just autoattacking, and autoattacking is not playing the game, it is botting and very boring. To truly have fun in this game one must be feel like they are actively participating and the only way to accomplish that goal is if the player can use their skills all the time.
And in most cases the mp cost increases are not going to effect the outcome of any particular pvp match as classes will still be killing other classes superfast, therefore increasing the mp cost will not create the desired balancing changes.
Increasing the mp cost of skills only serves to make hunting/grinding/farming/partying more boring without addressing the core problem.
In conclusion mp should be eliminated because it doesn't balance classes in pvp and only serves to make playing your character boring once you run out of mp.
The entire mp idea was one of the worst concepts ever created by a video game designer. The entire point of playing a game is being an active partipant, and since in many cases using skills that cost mp is the only way to be an interactive participant in a video game and once you ran out of mp you could no longer make actual decisions about how to play the game then disallowing players from interacting with the game just because they ran out of mp removed the point of playing a video game.
Just ask any pre C5 mage about how much fun it was to run out of mp every 10 minutes and have to spend 50% of their time on their butt waiting for that mp bar to regen.
Since the problem with pvp in this game is that some classes do too much damage in pvp, the obvious solution is to change how skills deal damage to other players such that the skill will be changed to only deal at most X% of a target's hp if that target is a player and normal damage if it is a mob.
The other change is that debuffs need to have a 100% land rate and have their reuse delays and durations changed accordingly.
The other problem of course is the incredibly stupid idea to allow players who are higher level to deal extra damage to lower level players just because they are higher level even though that difference is already factored in by giving higher level players access to better equipment and higher levels of skills. This was a change by the developers to allow higher level players to spit in the face of lower level players just because they are higher level and removed the ability of lower level players to do anything about it. And then why did they go even further in making lower level players artificially deal less damage to higher level players? NC consistently demonstrates that their game studios are full of morons who need to be fired an replaced with employees whose IQ is above 80.
5) Feoh Wizard
The Feoh Wizard’s original concept was a powerful ranged magician, but currently this class is not performing as expected. We will be doing an overhaul on MP usage during hunts and damage dealt in general. The Vortex plus Slasher combo that will be included upon diversification will help restore the original damage-dealing pattern of the wizard.
Increase all skill attack power by 10%
Increase success rates for debuff skills
Increase Elemental Spike’s power
Eliminate skill cooldown to make it feel more like a standard attack
Devil’s Curse and Mass Devil’s Curse skills are increased in power and thus made more useful
Increase debuff duration
Target’s M. Atk. / M. Def. decreased by 30% instead of 10%
Unleash Hell and Death Mass Unleash Hell increased in power
Spiritshots applied; casting time is affected by M. Atk speed.
Cooldown significantly decreased and MP consumption increased
Come on now, nukers are probably the hardest hitting dd next to archers and we're buffing their damage and debuffs? At 98 I have 95 nukers crit me for 10k+ every third nuke...
The reason is because this means that player's will not be able to use their skills as much, and if you aren't using your skills then you are just autoattacking, and autoattacking is not playing the game, it is botting and very boring. To truly have fun in this game one must be feel like they are actively participating and the only way to accomplish that goal is if the player can use their skills all the time.
And in most cases the mp cost increases are not going to effect the outcome of any particular pvp match as classes will still be killing other classes superfast, therefore increasing the mp cost will not create the desired balancing changes.
Increasing the mp cost of skills only serves to make hunting/grinding/farming/partying more boring without addressing the core problem.
In conclusion mp should be eliminated because it doesn't balance classes in pvp and only serves to make playing your character boring once you run out of mp.
The entire mp idea was one of the worst concepts ever created by a video game designer. The entire point of playing a game is being an active partipant, and since in many cases using skills that cost mp is the only way to be an interactive participant in a video game and once you ran out of mp you could no longer make actual decisions about how to play the game then disallowing players from interacting with the game just because they ran out of mp removed the point of playing a video game.
Just ask any pre C5 mage about how much fun it was to run out of mp every 10 minutes and have to spend 50% of their time on their butt waiting for that mp bar to regen.
Since the problem with pvp in this game is that some classes do too much damage in pvp, the obvious solution is to change how skills deal damage to other players such that the skill will be changed to only deal at most X% of a target's hp if that target is a player and normal damage if it is a mob.
The other change is that debuffs need to have a 100% land rate and have their reuse delays and durations changed accordingly.
The other problem of course is the incredibly stupid idea to allow players who are higher level to deal extra damage to lower level players just because they are higher level even though that difference is already factored in by giving higher level players access to better equipment and higher levels of skills. This was a change by the developers to allow higher level players to spit in the face of lower level players just because they are higher level and removed the ability of lower level players to do anything about it. And then why did they go even further in making lower level players artificially deal less damage to higher level players? NC consistently demonstrates that their game studios are full of morons who need to be fired an replaced with employees whose IQ is above 80.
I fully agree with this.
Good move from the ISS enchanter heal and increases the use of mp so he will serve if buffa is already difficult with this MP?
and of course want to spoil the ja iss enchanter who is already ruined increasing use more mana and leave Feoh Aero wizard and healer dominated the game completely stupid this idea.
Aero Healer clear and there should be changes but because he alone kills more than Othel Sigel Knight and Rogue mobs and players.
Increase Shield Charge duration
Modify the King of Beasts skill
Decrease skill cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply; casting time is affected by attack speed.
Chain Strike and Chain Hydra skills have increased success rates
Superior Aggression and Superior Aggression Aura skills have decreased success rates
For me, i almost doing only PVE and is hard to control group sometimes and with the decreased success rate in our Agressions just make the players will die ... Why just only low the rate in PVP. Let the Tanks do his Work TANK the mobs ...
I will give my opinion again, stop increasing the powers of the damage Feoh and will invest in balancing classes and races, not just classes, Dark Elf Feoh this much more superior to others Feoh, the Human Sigel this much superior to Sigels Dark Elf and Elf White.
And another, the need to understand that NCsoft does not help improve a char for pvp and one for pve, everyone has to have the capacity for both pvp and pve and ready. For it is easier leveling Feoh one and a Wynn Sigel and a Healer for example. That is, NCsoft has to understand that Lineage II can not be viewed solely as a game in grupol of course you have to keep the essence of leveling group, but we have to bear to open more classes may evolve their lvls only.
Hello, I am healer and I ll talk only about my class.
As you know healers are the pillars of every pvp action.Each pvp ends when healers are dead and of course as we all know they are the first target. Lately with the usage of the heavy armors on them they managed to stay alive more and heal.That's where the pvp started to be interesting and longer than 30seconds maximum that was before. Now a team can activate tactics and play more organized pvps.
Although NCsoft is thinking to remove the heavy from healers. I have to say that I agree with these under some conditions. If you remove the ability of heavy armor usage you should add some protective passive skills on healers so they can stand in pvp using robe and being first targets. These protective passives could be:
1) Superior anti-arrow protection-> -50% received damage from Bows and -30% from ballistas(so u probably could reactivate the shooters which are completely a dead weapon right now). As we all know an archer can hit a healer right now in robe for more than 25k(and maybe much more) per shoot and there is no chance to stay alive for a 2nd hit...You re gona think now how mage can receive a dmg like this on robe and survive...mage has the jump skill so he can save himself easily and of course the mana shield skill that makes my day worse...
2)Superior anti-warrior something->-35% received damage from pole,duals and -25% from fists(reactivating one more dead weapon for pvp).
3)Superior anti-dagger protection->-40% chance to receive leathal attack and -15% dmg on hp.
Now about the mp cost... Maybe you should reconsider increasing the mp cost of healer skills cause we run out of mp easily in pve. In pvp i could accept a little increement something like 5% but not more because we re gona need 3rd healer out of party for rebirths and its impossible to do this.
ps: i dont mention the light armor usage cause it gives nothing and its useless as it is... not much defence for the casting that you lose.
I dont get it why something normal have to be called imba. Healers wear heavy and still die...cause they have no chance against DDs if they dont wear it.
Making Franctic Healing work only with robe or light is partially wrong since with robes is kinda useless anyways.
Make skills cost higher still have no obvious reason to be applied. (If it is to force healers to use robes...i think changes are in wrong direction)
Hey all, I would like to share my opinion about Sigel Knight. Well there is no realy issues for me while playing tank in PvE or PvP, but I was wondering wouldn't it be better to add another aura skill or make rage aura to aggro all nearby enemies. Rage aura has debuff effect and it would be nice that it could put the enemies into attack state and come after you. It's something like active agrro skill. Rage aura debuff range is good enough so aggression effect should be the same.It's problematic for example to pull mobs after you in a big area, It would be better just to run nearby them and they are completely after you ofc you had to use real aggro skill too. The other thing it is good because for example in fortuna if you use this new aura or the rage aura with aggro effect you have to use it carefully if you don't want to end up dead. So in my opinion to change aura's skills are strategically important thing for a good tank. And my suggestion just makes it more interesting and fun :)
Regarding ISS...
1.Increase Debuff duration>>>its useless, i have skill cooldown 8 sec/4sec...
2.10% increase in damage against monsters>>>you said that you want to encourage PVP...Why only against monsters?!
3.For Chaos Symphony and Crazy Nocturne i cant talk, im lvl 90, with Increase Poem skill’s MP consumption and limited healing abilities i trully belive ISS will got nefert...
And, second but not last...with this modification im sure that ISS will be played most of time BOX...and that its a real problem.
So, PLEASE DONT NEFERT ISS ENCHANTER...dont make him only buffer.
Ah, i almoust forgot...what means for you ''balanced''?! ....I dont think a healer should kill a tyrr 3-4 lvls bigger, also a tank should not kill a feoh 2-3 lvls bigger.
Removing random duration of debuffs and simplifying the battle formulas are steps in good direction. Also it is good, that you plan to boost weaker classes, instead of nerfing stronger ones. But you can go further, than that
A good game needs symmetry between opponents, minimum of randomness and a system of actions, counter-actions and counter-counter-actions.
Symmetry was achieved in Lineage 2 with the new party structure, where opposing parties have more or less the same classes.
Though we still have strong influence of random factor and not very developed system of counter moves.
One way to solve this, would be to make all debuffs 100% chance, if the target is not more than 2 levels higher than the caster, and reduce Radiant Purge's cooldown time. This solution will provide, that party can plan usage of their debuffs, even ones with long cooldown time, and still have strong counter-move against opponent debuffs.
Same goes for Sigel knight. Instead of reducing Aggresion land rate, reduce it's duration. Aggresion must remain a dependable skill to use at proper time, but you must avoid depriving players of control over their characters. Dependable 3-4 seconds hate lock is a strategic skill that can save another party member, but situation, when players remain in constant hate lock is rather frustrating.
As for all immobilize skills (stun, petrify etc), these skills should have high land rates and long cooldown times, as this will assure their strategic significancy and help avoid frustrating gameplay.
Also, I think that changes planned for healers are not very well thought out.
You plan to increase MP usage for two main healing skills, while also increasing MP usage for all the other classes. This will simply work as indirect PVE nerf, reducing amount of mobs that party can pull in one train.
Probably your goal was to stress the role of MP bonus of robe sets, but it will not work that way. Parties will still expect healers to wear heavy, just the healer's job will become harder (or they will be forced to own two sets). This will be similar, as after introducing pomanders, when cardinals were loaded with burden of casting stigma on every mob (not minding, that the load on cardinal was high enough already), because it was so important for eva's saints to get purify from pomanders.
You want to deprive healers in heavy of a skill, that increases cast speed. The thing is, that with around 1500 cast speed you can spam panic heal right on cooldown, so I would say anything higher than 1500 is suboptimal (that's assuming, you cannot cap your cast speed anyway).
As for your efforts to force healers into robes, I concur, for purely aesthetic reasons. Healer's job in PvP was always to die, get rezzed, die get rezzed etc, so I don't mind. The thing is, that nerfing heavy armor is not the way.
If you want to make healers use robes again, give them something good, i.e. 20% decrease of skill cooldown when wearing a robe.
L2 is not, and never SHOULD be a 1v1 balanced game. Go play WoW or some other MMO if your looking for that. (coming from a 96 ISS btw)
Feoh
-In my opinion you should nerf their dmg output by 20% but increase their survivability by 30%, not increase their damage output by 10%.
-Fix arcane barrier to only transfer half of the received damage into MP, instead of HP. In Oly for example vs a 97+ nuker I shoot through their MP and render them useless in a matter of seconds.
Dagger
-Currently I think they are the right strength and power.
-Increase drastically the amount of MP they use while in shadow fake death.
-Disallow high level daggers to have hide back to back almost simultaneously.
Archer
-Increase stun shot land rate. When I used to play archer with zaken jewel, my Stun shot rarely landed and when it did it was broken in matter of seconds. Either increase its land rate or decrease its cooldown.
-Increase Hex land rate however decrease its power, give it 20% reduction to bow resist but double its land rate.
-On a side note, to all these healers that cry they get 2 shotted in heavy by archers. Who are you fighting? lvl 99's with +10 or higher Blessed bows? What do you expect? Any class can deal massive amounts of damage with OEd blessed weapons. In OLY or in open PvP 95+ archers with standard or unid +3/+4 specter bows take about 8-9 shots to kill me. Unless they have minds eye up they aint killing me in under 6-7 shots. Any class with crazy OEd blessed weapons can kill a player in a few shots. Dont understand why you think that just cuz those 4 archers with crazy bows kill you fast taht you think the class needs to be nerfed as a whole. ******ation in my opinion.
Summoner
-Increase the skill power of mark retrieval.
-Increase the pet heal, but increase amount of time its needed for cast.
-Increase land rate o marks.
Tyyr
-I like the changes that are listed. This class has long needed a boost.
-me personally however would like to see a Tyyr get around 15% more damage in skills but decrease Ogre cry to only 15% increase in Pdef/mdef.
-Currently their a mini tank/dd. Just make them a true DD and nerf survival rate, but increase their damage output.
Healer
-Healers should not be in heavy. What I would do to counter act this is to place a debuff on ANY class that uses a Armour set that they do not have a mastery in rather then go the long way which is increasing consumption of MP on skills amongst other things. This could completely screw with the class when there is a much easier route to fixing this issue.
-PS, sorry healers your supposed to die to archers/daggers. Again this is not a 1v1 game.
Tank
-I currently like the way the awakened tank is. Its annoying to fight them in 1v1 or 2v2 scenarios because most buy massive amounts of pots just so they can waste 20m+ to survive forever in PvP but it is what it is.
I voted that the changes would be overall problematic. It sounds like they want to take away skills that are overpowered or don't work instead of tweaking such skills. And to be honest, anything taking away from them allowing us to stay the path of our original classes is a waste of time. They need to bring those back.
I want a unique class for my Titan....I don't want to play as a generic awakened character.
I will....but i'm going to be mediocre about it.
I feel they shouldn't be focusing on this at all, but rather updating other aspects of the game.
First off, why are you trying to talk about class balance now when your going to diversify the classes, this should be handled after the classes are diversified to see what damage that does to the current balance first.
Also... I voted 2 because it seems like these changes are mostly adequate but partially problematic in some cases.
Here's my healer QQ:
I understand you want to force healers into robes. It sucks for me but ok, sure. -.- I think healers should have some survivability in PVP because it draws out the fight and its more fun, personally. Anyway! Trying to force us into robes by increasing the MP consumption is the wrong way to do it, its going to unbalance PVE. I already roll in Robes during most PVE (I have a good tank so I don't worry about getting hit a lot). Falconek nailed it with the casting speed. Don't nurf us in a way thats going to impact party PVE, I need to refill mana and heal. Progressive is my most used heal. Healers arent built to function off of panic heal anymore, we're made to run off of progressive and balance. If we aren't then stop the kartia boss from AOEing.
I say if you want to tweak healers into sporting robes again, or light (^.^ Super cute in leather btw!) Give us a bit more p def in the robes or light (maybe 1/4 more in robes and 1/2 more in light), there's a MASSIVE difference, and nurf the casting speed in heavy by a big margin. We should be squishy but not too squishy.
One last thing, let us rebind or unbind our sets so we aren't financially screwed by having to change out all our gear, ty.
I think one of the main problems of posting this poll in NcWest servers its going to be the average lvl of the posters and their perspective.
Most of the people that are jumping on this post, have little to no knowledge at all of how PvP / PvE are past 95, wich is, considering we dont seem to be getting a level cap increase anytime soon, what should me the main topic of concern.
Atm, the pvp past 95 its pretty balanced, disregarding the highly enchanted weapons and OE Sets + Draco or Warrior potions. There is no class that kills everyother class 10/10 times in an open PvP environment 1 vs 1 situation. It's a matter of a combination of gear / level / player skills. There was and there will always be some classes that dominate olympiad, simply because its impossible to balance a character like a healer or a tank, without crippling their combat habilities for open world PvP / PvE, unless developers are willing to make changes that affect only the olympiad environment.
Many players (old and new ones equally) seem to have forgotten this is a team game, and focus the changes they consider acceptable on what they want out of their character, not taking into consideration their character role in a party, or how a little change of tactic can completely turn around the situation on a PvP. Let's take Tyrr as an example (one of the so called crippled characters) While a Tyrr its not dealing such massive damage as a Yul or a Feoh are, their role as a crowd controller with tons of hp and pretty much decent p.def seems completely forgotten. Armor destruction isnt only helping them deal damage, its also helping any other physical DD in party by giving them 30/40% extra dmg output. But people dont seem to realize u can use tactics or assist in PvP.
Regarding Sigel Knight proposed changes:
Superior Aggression and Superior Aggression Aura skills have decreased success rates
This is just clearly crippling a tank out of its basic functions, while i do agree that single agression shouldnt be able to lock any other character, any well played party can cleanse / brilliant purge atm good enough to give a chance to anyone with two hands to be able to pvp fairly good, so what about just decreasing the sucess rate on single target agression?
Regarding Tyrr Warrior proposed changes:
Increase Armor Destruction and Hurricane Blaster skills’ power
30% increase in ability to decrease target’s defense
Modify Last Attack skill
Eliminate skill cooldown and make it more useful in PvP
Increase skill’s critical rate
I think skill power of Tyrr could use a lets say 10% overall damage boost, but 30% extra damage (given Armor destruction is already spammable) on a character that is already hard to kill its just plain and simple making it overpowered. Take please into consideration aswell, that boosting the % on armor destruction would aswell boost the overall damage output of any party that has a Yul / Rogue on it (do we really need archers critting for 70k?)
Increasing skill critical rate of a skill and making it spammable its another step on the wrong direction.
And increasing MP consumtion may help them use more tactics or learn another way of dealing with their MP, but in the end of the day, would just make healers job even harder.
RegardingOthell Rogue proposed changes:
Shadow Fake Death skill increases in MP consumption
Debuff skills have higher success rates
Blow-type damage formula modified
Due to the buff that decreases received critical damage, we lowered the percentage of decrease in blow-type damage, so that it can yield higher damage than before in the same scenario.
Once again, their blow-type skills should be given a minor boost, but i think their debuffs are fine as their are now.
Noone seems to have mentioned yet the modification that should be done to their hide skill (often crits with skill mastery) since atm its allowing any dagger in olympiad to just hit once, hide and crit skill with some luck, and still manage to win a combat on damage. So either this skill should consume a quite large amount of MP and turn off hide when MP is over, or make it impossible to crit through skill mastery.
Regarding Yul Archer proposed changes:
Yul Archer is plain and simply a mass pvp beast right now.
Debuff skill success rates increased
Impact Shot, Recoil Shot, Slow Shot, Bullseye
Lure Shot, Bow Strike, and other such debuffs have decreased success rates
Increased impact shot? I think (from my personal PoV) this skill already has a pretty fair landrate if the archer bothers to wear even 1 shock jewel from ceremony of chaos, and also often crits by skill mastery resulting on a 16 secs stun lock. The Archer already deals massive damage, imho we dont need to have archers able to stun lock anyone for 16 secs and kill them in 2-3 crits w/o even a chance to fight.
Bullseye has about 80% land rate in PVP and a fair reuse time, why give an already powerful char an even higher boost. Once again, also take into consideration bullseye debuff doesnt affect only the archer itself, but any other DD in party dmg. Only fix that should be given to this debuff is the misterious dissapeareance of it on bosses before counter goes down.
I dont really think the other debuffs need a change. And i consider the change of stances from toggle to buffs to be a possitive thing, although, i have a doubt.
Modify Stance-type skills
Change from group toggle form to standard buff form
Siege Fire Stance: Effect now increases Attack and Skill Power
Rapid Fire Stance: Effect now increases Atk. Power and decreases cooldown
Sniper Stance: Effect now increases Atk. Power and Attack Range
Are this effects ADDED to the actual description of the stances, or is it a change and this would be their description from now on?.
Regarding Feoh Wizard proposed changes:
Feoh is already powerful in PvE / PvP, increasing their overall damage by 10% would clearly lead to unbalance, not to mention eliminating cooldown of one of the nukes.
Increase all skill attack power by 10%
Increase success rates for debuff skills
Increase Elemental Spike’s power
Eliminate skill cooldown to make it feel more like a standard attack
Devil’s Curse and Mass Devil’s Curse skills are increased in power and thus made more useful
Increase debuff duration
Target’s M. Atk. / M. Def. decreased by 30% instead of 10%
Unleash Hell and Death Mass Unleash Hell increased in power
Spiritshots applied; casting time is affected by M. Atk speed.
Cooldown significantly decreased and MP consumption increased
Devil's Curse and Mass Devil's Curse do need a boost on their landrate (although i think that is coming with Glory Days patch) but not in power.
Adding MP consumption would work for a Solo PvE situation (where a feoh would usually have enough mp herbs available) or not to make them too overpowered on 1 vs 1. But wouldnt work in a party situation, making once again too much extra work for healer, wich already has problems if they want to fully recharge a nuker on PvE.
Regarding Iss Enchanter proposed changes:
I dont think increasing their debuff duration would improve or change the gameplay on any way, they are already spammable and they already do more damage than their normal attacks, so they will continue playing exactly the same.
Increase Debuff duration to 20 sec.
Crippling Attack, Shadow Blade, Mass Crippling Attack, Mass Shadow Blade
10% increase in damage against monsters during a standard attack
Chaos Symphony skill modified
Decrease cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply and casting time is affected by attack speed.
Crazy Nocturne skill modified
Changed effect to decrease received critical rate by 50%
Increase Poem skill’s MP consumption increased
I think the change of Crazy Nocturne its possitive since it can add a bit more strategy to the PvP.
Once again, while their healing skills could be decreased to lets say 20% instead of being equivalent to a healer's progressive heal, i dont think their Mp consumption should be modified on any way, once again, this will give healers problems with MP management and become a problem on PvP when a target gets killed over and over , loose noblesse and there's a need to rebuff.
Regarding Wynn Summoner proposed changes:
I agree with most of the changes proposed, but i'd add a small decrease on the reuse of their marks.
Regarding Aeore Healer proposed changes:
Frantic Healing skill modified
Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe
Progressive Heal and Balance Heal have increased MP consumption
Ok, here we have a complicated topic, should healers be using heavy or not?
Problem is DDs (and even monsters) atm are dealing massive damage, so healers were forced to wear heavy armors in order to be able to PLAY their character in PvP / PvE. I dont really think we should be giving them a penalty because of this. Much less attack their MP wich they already can have issues managing under certain party setups. I know many people still have their mind set on the old days when all the healers were using robes, but its time for a change of mind set. Any healer in heavy can still be taken down on 2-3 hits of a 95-99 archer (this w/o even counting any other DD assisting) Do we really want to make healers 1 hit wonder for any class? Do we want PvP to last the time that the first celestial + party UD last?
Atm healers are able to enjoy their role on PvP and a good PT vs PT PvP can last randomly any time between 1 - 30 minutes.
Do we want to take that fun away?
Thx to anybody that bothered to read the wall of text.
Don't nerf ISS mana it will lose its role as second healer when needed, only buff and debuff will be dull the already dull gameplay. Also I'm ok with armor restrictions on healer but not with increased mana cost. So you nerf iss so he cant heal and nerf healer so he need second healer? Whats the point of that mana problems for anyone? Also you can nerf the tank abilities in pvp but don't nerf them in pve, that just make them unwanted as tyrs now. Also it will be good to get some information about the previous pool results. What will be exactly changet? What skills will be added? Can people choose from them? As ex dominator if i can get something as lest say upgraded version of soul guard i will be unable to use it coz of the increased mana cost, that will take the unbalance between same classes even further. When you touch pvp wise some skill you can hurt pve badly. Everything is connected in pve and when you nerf both healers and and iss harder instances will become even harder.
Hi just want to make a comment from the healer perspective. While I am a low level healer due to my casual play style, I do think a lot about what is coming next as I increase in level.
While reading the info from the developers at the start of this, I was cheering about the first line. Solve problems by improving the under-powered class, not by nerfing the over-powered ones... This is exactly how I feel. Then I get to the part about nerfing the healers with heavy armor, because other players can't kill them in 2 hits anymore.
My suggestion here would be to offer healers a better reason to wear light/robes instead of taking away skills that they already had while using heavy.
1) People wearing heavy armor seem to be doing so because they can not survive in robes in pvp or pve.
Solutions:
Give healers in robes 6 elemental defence self buffs. These should provide increased defense against 1 element while nerfing their defence against its counterpart. Ex: + 300 def against fire with -300 def against water. 3 buffs active at any time, and these should produce an aura giving the other members of the party a (1/10) effect of the same type that stacks with the Iss elemental buff.
This can be used in pvp, but it would be balanced, as the healer won't know exactly what element they are facing and could be facing both elements from 2 different players.
In a hunting zone, many times the healer will know what element the mobs have/are using so it could give them the survivability that they need there. For mobs attacking with unelemented attacks, well the party will just have to defend their healer a little better ;)
Give healers in light armor more pdef and mdef (not better pdef than heavy armor, but close enough to make it more plausible for use). Increase their cp while wearing light armor by enough to make this option more viable for them in pvp vs heavy armor. :)
Leave their heavy armor alone. No changes here, just give them more incentive to use the other options in different circumstances so that they do not all feel they have to choose one option. Pvp battles lasting minutes instead of seconds is not a bad thing. :cool:
Everyone gets a chance to use their sills during this period of time so more fun for all. Dirt naps are not fun for anyone except the killer. Mass pvp for longer times means everyone gets to have some fun before they die. :rolleyes:
Personally, I think the developers need to rethink non class-based olympiad. Leave class-based alone, but replace non class-based with a contest of transformations. Let players transform themselves into 1 or 2 generic forms like we had in territory wars (coliseum nuker, warrior, rogue, or archer). Give them a few minutes before the match starts to set their skill bars with the transformations' skills, after they have chosen their form of course. They should know the name of their oponent before choosing their transform. All players could choose whichever of the 4 they wanted for any given match. Adds a bit of rock, paper, scissors, shotgun feel to it.
Basicaly you want overpower MORE the dd's and **** up healers.
That doesn't make any sense. If you want FORCE healers use ROBE you must DECREASE significantly the ****** POWER of DD's skills. OR inscrease significantly the BOOST OF ROBE MASTERY.
What's the point of having a healer in ROBE for pvp if he gonna stay dead like 99,99% of the time? I'd better invite other DD instead healer.
gz making stupid mages even more powerfull in pvp?
no i dont have a problem killin a mage in a straight up 1on1 with my yul but they still diss out a constant high damage not sitting back on crits
tested it few days ago me +9 r99 vs +6 set normal crits are 5k (on mage)
crit pinpoint shot is 16? k not sure anymore with bullseye on and pinpoint is +10
i mean get real when u take in mind healers are freakin powerfull now with their heals and on top of all that u got warrior healing pots
while mages come around with their +10 debuff taking 320+400? hp every second + that other debuff that going to be new gloom according to these post
yea baby mage world has come back again
no1 needs to recharge mages because 2x healer in pt totally rapes the use of recharge by havin perma rebirth
not to mention why mages dont get a nerf on range?
The proposed compensation measures seems appropriate.
In my view it will be great a new balance between classes, many of them are in desequilíbriom by my vision really think this should rather change the current system, the first reason is obvious: Balancing extrategico give a game more and more fun to be played comprises because life's logic in this game since it's a mmorpg, so if you do that with the players a way to think more about your attacks will be very good.
* I accept and approve these measures.
8) aoere healer
-Current Description
>"Frenetic Heal"
-Increases Casting Spd. by 50%. During skill use, increases MP Consumption by 30%.
Possible Solution
-New Description
>"Frenetic Heal"
-Increases P.Def. by 50%. During skill use, increases MP Consumption by 30%. Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe.
i..voted for other...i see so many holes in this change for the iss.
"We will modify the Iss Enchanter to allow for a more comfortable battle through debuff duration increase and normal damage increase."
-comfortable battle against monsters right? let's face it, iss are support classes, i understand that. we support the healers with our heals, we support the damage dealers with our minuscule damage and the two debuffs (i say two because the other two're just an extension of the other), we occasionally support the party / clan during pvp with our suspension (hardly ever goes in),
"Also, we will be changing the skill effects of Crazy Nocturne due to its lack of usefulness."
- really uselessness? and yet the so called balance that is being suggested is "Changed effect to decrease received critical rate by 50%?" lowering the cool down and mp cost of the skill would have been a more welcomed change to this skill, as we all know how this skill affects how other skills are used (ex. battle rhapsody)
"But as for the Increase Poem skills, the current healing skills’ effects are exceeding the healers’ so we will make this a more selective choice by increasing MP consumption."
-in what way do we exceed the healer's heals? yes the first player / npc to receive the heal probably will get the benefit so long as not many are around him/her but just how many use the heal during pvp? many times you end up healing the other side, or atleast used to (i can't really say how this thing works since i haven't pvp'd much the past two months) iss heal's a broken thing i agree, but only in the aspect that it fails to heal only those in the party / cc. it was supposed to be an extension of the ovelord's and the warcryers' party / clan group heals, yet it fails to do its job most of the time. fix the existing skills before nerfing it please
"Increase Debuff duration to 20 sec.
Crippling Attack, Shadow Blade, Mass Crippling Attack, Mass Shadow Blade"
-here it is...just how many iss's have you heard who've complained about this? no really, surprise me. when it was 5 seconds i only assumed that it's only fitting since it was a debuff skilll, so when we got the update increasing this to 10 seconds i pretty much thought nothing of it. now we're getting a 20 second increase to the skills that's got a 8 second delay to them? stop it, just stop it already, increase the damage of the skills or the effects associated tot he skills, this just makes the dev team very ignorant of the class.
"10% increase in damage against monsters during a standard attack"
-ok, what about the p.def? or the m.def? actually strike that m.def i'd be asking for too much, but seriously what about the p.def? and how about 10-15% increase during pvp's as well? we all know other players just laugh at our damage so long as we don't weild +1x weapons and have +15 +3 tatts. has anyone ever complained about how strong the iss are during battle that's not named olympiad? the ceremony of chaos pretty much sums it up as to how useless the class is during pvp, we're busier turning into stones or pigs and running around the healing right away than actually doing damage when it's fully buffed classes facing each other.
the description associated with the iss class is i believe:
"...their strength comes from their versatile buffs and debuffs. Iss Enchanters are ultimate strategists...their buffs and debuffs can turn the tide of battle. Their buffs enhance the complete range of fundamental combat attack and defense properties, and many affect an entire party of heroes. Their debuffs incorporate physical attacks."
as you can see iss's main attacks are supposed to be debuffs, and the debuffs are supposed to be incorporated with physical attacks, as strategists (i'm guessing this was due to the fact that dominators of the past controlled the crowd some what with their debuffs) iss were suppose to control the flow to a certain aspect, yet the celestial aegis skill (party immune) isn't all that much better than the similar skills the healers have, the aoe transformation is actually a buff where you can't attack that applies to the party members, and of the three aoe debuffs (suspension, cancel target, disable natural hp regen) only suspension is remotely useful but at a cost of high mp consumption and cool down. the iss class users are not asking to be equals with other dd's, but atleast let them survive during battles so they can do what they were designed to do, and that is to support their party members!
Chaos Symphony skill modified
Decrease cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
Soulshots apply and casting time is affected by attack speed.
- this here seems to the be only improvement that was made to the class so i won't say anything.
-on a side note, giving the iss a shield mastery of level 1 or so would be very helpful for the class imo, as a swordmuse iss, it was one aspect of the class that i really miss, as the shield provided me with that extra defense.
OTHER CLASSES:
Sigel Knight :
"...Aggression skills, we will have to adjust their excessive impact on melee classes in large-scale PvP and make them more useful in hunting."
-the aggression skills really did need to be fixed for pvp, so long as the skill stays useful during pve's. and another thing that needs to be fixed imo, is the damage return. the amount needs to have a cap or a limit at a certain point!
Tyrr Warrior :
"Modify Last Attack skill
Eliminate skill cooldown and make it more useful in PvP
Increase skill’s critical rate"
-elimination of the cool down won't do much for the skill itself unless the point at which the skill can be used is raised to 30% of the opponent's hp imo.
"Increase Superior Light Armor Mastery’s power"
-how many tyrrs out there opt to wear the assassin type / enchanter type light armour over the attack type heavy? this change pretty much would have no effect to this specific class and would probably be more befitting to give to the iss enchanters as they would benefit somewhat (mana control) from wearing light armours.
Othell Rogue :
-what can i say, i've never played this specific class so i'll leave this one blank.
Yul Archer :
-lineage 2 is probably the only mmorpg / rpg where dex (agility) have no effect on the bow's damage. sure it increases the attack speed, crit. rate, and evasion, but that applies to everyone with certain races having that small advantage over the other. i fail to understand why this was not fixed when people brought it to attention during prelude and C1, or why atleast the skill's damage was not being affected by the dex (nevermind awakening kind of changed that didn't it, by letting dex dictate skill success rate?)
-but i do agree with the range / damage rule, this would finally bring back the control the archers of the past had when they were pretty much reliant on their self buffs.
Feoh Wizard :
-the overall suggestions to this class seems to forget about the class diversification due to appear. i believe each race's element needs to be separated :
Kamael an option of earth (no race has this element other than dwarves) and dark magic (kamaels should have had this from the beginning);
Elves an option of water (they had this from the beginning) and holy magic (they were designed per se during the lin2's creation that they were of the holy allignment if i'm not mistaken)
Dark Elves an option of wind (their element) and dark magic (as they followed in the steps of shillen)
Human (Sorc) an option of fire (their element) and earth (for some reason they have surrender to earth right?)
Human (Necro) dark magic (this is their forte) and all four elements but with the damage being limited as this class was designed to fight with enhanced debuffs.
Wynn Summoner :
"Servitor Major Heal skill increased in power"
-this servitor heal needs to be something like a balance heal where it affects both the summoner and the servitors or atleast servitor based group heal.
-the biggest challenge for the nc staff will be in figuring out what each race will be better than the other at. as warlocks were melee-based all arounder with some useful party buffs, the elemental masters were magic-based all arounder with some useful party buffs, and the spectral masters were physical damage dealing monsters with debuffs. it's going to be interesting how they bring back what is considered to be the essence of the summoner class.
Aeore Healer :
-probably the only class where every aspect of it was considered when GoD was being planned. it is not overly strong in any of the criteria (since the whole heavy armour thing is being reconsidered), and fulfills its role of healing / supporting the party.
This is my second post on this poll, I remain will other option.
All I read and discussed is this poll is about Olympiads, no real game play.
* My healer is in heavy because can not take 3 hits from a dark elf archer, you must decrease the mana consumption and lower the archer damage.
* Wizards are over powered, they can beat my warrior with only two spells and their debuffs make me like a kitten.
I suggest for ending this 'unbalance':
1. Get back to the original game design.
Tanks with heavy and shield, warriors with flexible armor, mage and healers with robes.
Force all players to get back to their original designs, for example make the use of fists the most appropriate weapon for khavatari by the masteries that already have and the one that get on awakening, make robes the only choice by the penalties that have the other armors (light and heavy) in mana regeneration and casting speed for those who must wear robes.
Update the skills previous to awakening to be stat and level dependent so they become useful after awakening
Get the old skills back to all who traded them with the awakened versions.
Make the 34 classes back unique as they were.
and then:
2. Change the Olympiads paradigm:
-Change it to follow two different lines of competition. Make battles closed to:
a. Class and race
b. Class only (Tank, warrior, wizard, summoner,enchanter ....)
That will end the unbalance,
Maybe..., then we will hear people complaining that a lvl 99 wearing a eternal attack type set +7 +300 elem with eternal weapon +9 double SA beat my lvl 89 wearing dynasty armor set and dynasty weapon ... that lvl 99 people are overpowered on Olympiads and need to balance for....
And bring back the 34 heroes from every class and race.
bring back the Dominator, the Doomcryer, the wonderful muse and dancers.
Limit the shout (!) to 1000 lines a day per hero
unlimited to other functions.
To the healer you are lucky to stand 2 shots, you are a Healer not a tank.
To the warrior if you had reached the wizard first surely he/she will not stand two of your skills.
I do not like this path for balancing stuff. First because I think there is no need to balance between classes, they have different functions.
And second because it mess all the real game play PVE, raids, Bosses.
How can a tank be in party with a healer that might or might not heal him/her when is with 40 or 30 HP?
Or a healer be with a Tank that might or might not take the aggro from him/her after healing?
Just to begin with the issues this proposed changes are bringing to us.
Please.
What ever change you will design to apply (or already have planned to apply) must be focused on real game play not for PVP in Olympiads.
If you want to make fight a buffer with a warrior please do it in a duel.
My thanks to the design team and the NC West for the support and time invested.
7) Wynn Summoner
The Wynn Summoner is currently the most powerful class in hunting. We will be increasing the usefulness of skills that connect with servitor skills as befitting the summoner class. The biggest change will be that we will be decreasing the max number of summoned servitors while increasing the stats of each servitor, so that the effect will be the same despite the decrease in numbers.
Servitor Major Heal skill increased in power
agree, servitor heal need a boost
Atk. Power increases when equipped with dual blunts for wizards; weapon selection also increased
Increase Summon Death Gate skill power
Increase servitor’s attack and defense
if with this change dual blunts > bow would be pk
Change max number of summoned servitors
2 is now the max number of servitors that can be summoned by level
Following the decrease in numbers, the servitors’ stats will increase accordingly
o wait this change has already been made, summons need a boost in atack speed, critical rate and reapers skill power, no just patack pdef hp matack mdef stats boost
Well sumoners in 1 vs 1 are ok, but for mass pvp really need a improve, maybe less cd in cc skill, like exile mass exile and binding or marks, maybe summoners need mass bindin too
Lineage is a game which some people plays for fun, others to **** their rival ally or just to reach top and quit etc etc, overall there's a lot of unbalance in GoD the plan of balance needs to be done with calm and a LOT of testing in order to bring the real balance and not some fix for one or another class... now some class are better at oly, at pve, at pvp the balance involves all that not only pvp when most of time ur not alone, and ofc no one want's a nerf, but it has to be done.
The whole class balance should be done in 2 steps one directed increase survivability mostly for pvp, what's the point of increasing skill power, decreasing cooldown for skills while our survivability stays the same? After that a balance but not just "balance THIS class", each class has their let's call ramification a balance needs to be done while tested with all races in order to reach a good standard making a player chose the class and race becouse he likes it and not becouse it is OP.
The MP consumption are increase will make the healer will run out of mana real faster on lower levels just keep in mind that many players never played GoD before when they reach 85 it's a brand new world for them, lets get Kartia 85 for example and a party range 85~86 with Aeore, Sigel, Tyrr, Othel, Feoh, Iss, Yul none of them has nobless and 3 of them die at different times during it, keep in mind that they are players that never done that before so there will be a lot of skill spam, "rechage me, heal me, ress me" this Aeore is going to have a a lot of work and yes he will adquire some experience on his next kartia he will chose a better party leaving the mana eaters aside by increasing healer mp use you will also make many class even more unwanted, at higher levels when u already have acess to weapons with dual SA it's another history.
Some racial skill also need to be reworked like Kamael's Silence resist, I also think that Dwarf Othell Rogues should get another racials leaving the role of summning to Dwarf Tyrr ones.
As for classes:
Sigel Knight: Agrression skills need to be fixed in order to no affect channel members, while increasing it's rate when hunting. For pvp make players more resistant to it or just low his rate of success on players.
Tyrr Warrior: No comment
Othell Rogue: Lowering the % of the harp melody critical resistance just for their blows doesn't sound fair to the other classes, high level othells are already OP against robe users with this they will become even more OP bad idea.
Yul Archer: "it has become the jack of all trades" one of top dd at pvps and already OP, change his toogle stances to buffs without any penality is just insane. In order to increase bullseye land rate the skill should reduce less stats.
Feoh wizard: Change his arcance barrier in order to increase his survivability like a greater mana cost for X damage prevention, change his skills to do more damage at pve making them wanted for raids for pvp their actual damage is fine, and for devil's curse an increase to 15% is fine it also needs a better land rate and raising his mana costs while u give them an hold the button skill is also a bad idea.
Iss enchanter: Crazy Nocturne should be reworked what's the point of giving more critical resistance while you also nerf it like on proposal for the critical resistance reduction on othell rogue blows? Make it more usefull like a increasing his duration 60 sec of less cd is better than 10 or versions of Appetite for Destruction, Magical Impulse or Protection instinct not stackable with Rhapsody.
Instead of increasing debuff duration increase the skill damage.
Wynn Summoner: The change to 2 pets is already here there was no need to tell us this.
Time to re-summon should be shortened ou current time for re-summon is too long.
The marks should be reworked they are useless against any party with a 94+ healer.
The cubic should also be reworked I never saw any effect besides 1 sec of hold which is useless, bring back the a mix of the old ones.
For heal make balance of life aeore like, it was desing to balance your life with 3~4 pets picture a summoner with 30% life, one of his pet is also lower on hp becouse TP and by using it will leave last one with an also low HP by add some HoT it will increase it survivability.
Aeore Healer - Usually the 1st to die, uses Heavy armor to increase his survival against physical attacks. Instead of the forced proposal to make them wear robe again increasing his mp consumption and changing frantic heal, change his currently robe/light mastery to a more benefical like add decrease physical damage by 1% for lvl and increasing up to 10%.
Proposed change on frantic heal, the current one is used by few when it's even used, instead turn it into a improved Soul Guard which continues consume mp that also would solve the "heavy armor issue".
Another suggestion is giving them a chance to get a buff which increases p. def or decrease incomming dmg for 1~2 sec after he casts any healing spell
Tyrr Last Attack in pvp seems kinda useless , because to use it on 20% player hp its kinda hard / impossible in a pvp and even tho i would prefer to use other skill in order to kill my target not a skill that has a chance to lethal him 1 1 , so i suggest either increase the minimum requirements of the skills in order to be useful or static reuse ( 3 4 min ) w/o minim requirements and chance to lethal ( like mobs in guillotine do :D ) , but at 20% hp in pvp kinda useless
The rest of the chances seem okay
first of all you need to think out of the box(ironic i know)
instead of fixing "balance"issues (which in l2 history we clearly can see that there is no balance what so ever)
you can do something very very usefull
decrease the amount of xp untill 99 farming untill you die in real life(for people who dont bot)isnt helpfull the game dont need to be focused in how to get to top level but what you will do after that (make harder to get armors and weapons put more instances with some fun on them..)
2)
in order to balance the classes you cant increase the damage output even more for ranged characters this isnt balance... otherwise when wynn is on range and send the summons to attack they should do even more damage(retarted? yes so it is to increase the d.output)
3)
wynns
yes you decreased the summons that can be summoned
no you didnt increase the stats properly..
the 30 sec penalty in order to re summon is catastrophic sine we have 2 summons now..
if they going to change into class specific again we need the cubic mastery back in order to summon 3 cubics because that avenging cubic isnt avenging nothing at all(even the hex cubic land a lot more than that..)
and finally you intended for wynns to be croud control characters where is the aoe skills?
healers..
they were more like a tank when they had light armor.. rather to be what they mean to be now they can wear heavy
balance diary day 23
"i still dont know what to do with healers they seems to use every armor and they can benefit from it i maybe put a curse if they wear light and heavy! i have done it before with mage class"
end
tanks
i think fixing the aggresion is the best thing to do revamping something that most people will not use anyway what the point?
make the characters to be more usefull in a party since you forced all the characters to find a constant party.. right now they arent
Some people think that balance class means balance in 1 vs 1 pvp well this is wrong in this game every class is designed to have a role in group fights mass pvp, siege etc.DD must be Damage Dealer buffer must be support and healer must heal amd croud control if u want 1 vs 1 balance quit and plau wow or something else this game is uniqe for the group pvp and i like it that way.
ps. sory for my bad english.
Sigel Knight this with a big problem which was not mentioned there, the Stun. When we get the stun and stun, just when we started to hit, the stun effect disappears. Ie no avail increase the time for the stun skill Shiedl Impact of 1/2 to 5 seconds, and when the stun grip and started hitting the stun some, and it ended up leaving Sigel at a disadvantage, especially against Feoh always uses that skill to teleport, and when we can and we pull stun, and stun with this problem in the fade effect to start hitting the enemy, we become weak before this, because the skills of the teleport Feoh works perfectly, the skill of picks up when the guy gets built over time that tells skill, then the skill Shield Stun Impact and Wave Shiedl have to be revised, because I failed too, even fighting the same enemies lvl, and when he takes the effect to some enemy begin to lead normal damage and other skills. Ie Tyrr has skill to heal all HP, the skills of UD Sigels last 15 minutes, Knight Skill Frenzy has delay of 10 minutes, and looks that is not a skill apelona as well, is good for more defense, should have delay 2 minutes in order to use more frequently.
Whens the skills of UD are used, it takes 15 minutes to load, Knight Frenzy should load in 2 minutes, because it is not as appealing as well. Impact Shield and Wave Shield just not have any usefulness, because they are counter attacking skills, as tankers are slow, they need to get the stun hit the enemy, but with the way this stun, complicated, Wave Shield takes 1 minute to load, and when you get the stun, just give people the skill in the area, in case of a pvp group, add the effect of stun everyone. And IMpact Shield says the stun 5 seconds, but when you start hitting some hard and not 5 seconds, since when turned Stun sleep?
Maybe this post should not write here, but I wanted to give a suggestion though I doubt count for something.
I thought it would be good idea to customize each character as a whole.
I'll explain what I mean.
For example, imagine that you create a new character. This character would start with: 1 STR, 1 DEX, 1 CON, 1 INT, 1 WIT and 1 MEN.
As you level up you gain points that each person can choose their distribution.
Thus even being the same class, level and race, could be totally different and custom.
Having a free reset per character. And pay for others resets for adena or ncoins.
This system is very good and would greatly increase the chances in the game.
Sorry for me English, I use google translator. Do not be too hard on me.
Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe
Progressive Heal and Balance Heal have increased MP consumption
Being a healer and yes, I have to agree with us wearing robes or light, unless you want to look at healers from a more DND style role, leaving us unchanged would more than make up for the fact that it is slow and difficult for us to solo pve. If you make these changes, why not give us some sort of increase to damage dealing in pve or pve only skills? Sure, we may be first or second to be picked for groups but there are slow times for servers AND language barriers.. and last I saw, L2 lacks an in-game translator, and simply no desire to learn another language to play a game. So why not armor adjustments geared towards classes instead of blanket "defense/attack" types.
Or heck, reduce the cooldown for rebirth or increase to radiant recharge since you will be increasing the mana consumption for the other classes.
Sorry for bad English
Why many here hate feoh? You think feoh strong class? Try to play more 85 lvl and buy a normal equip (not D-A Grade). On 95 lvl feoh weakest class in the game. Impossible to kill anyone equal level (healer and summoner can not be killed when they are 5 lvl below). Feoh useless on raid bosses with his lol dmg. All classes in the game at 95+ have a greater m.def (more than 4k+). All classes have a 100% working skills of control, debuffs, celestials, paralyze, stun, transforms. All other classes are physical classes, even in the +6 Seraph set feoh has 2400 P.Def. My nuke in pvp usually 1-3k, archer hit me 20-50k! wtf?
What have feoh? - Nothing, just nuke, lol dmg nuke, and another lol dmg nuke. Fear is useless, unleash hell never worked and all debuffs with long reuse. Why all the classes have little reuse debuffs?
Make the game fair - remove all celestials of the game, increase the reuse mark of lumi and other debuffs, reduce dmg archers, increase the reuse polymorph and other transforms Iss, reduce the chance of passing in pvp healer debuffs and summoner, reduce endless hate and ud a Knight . Return normal cancel for wizard, do feoh debuffs usefull.
To really understand where is the unbalancing point between classes pick up the present 8 existing classes, 1 character lvl 99 for each class.
Dress them with standard R95 equipment.
Pick 8 real players (maybe the class heroes) who really know how to play that character. Let them pvp one vs one and just watch the matches. You will notice what are the real differencies and you can then better evaluate what to do. It's not just the power of one skill, and you know each class has some weak point versus another, and it should remain the same. But of course if a class (cls1) got a weakness versus another one (cls2) there should be one more other class (cls3) having some weakness versus the former (cls1).
There should be always someone to fear and someone else to be feared by.
well, this is interesting enough that i will share my opinion too.
I voted option number 2.
All in all i think theres great potential to achieving a better balance in the thoughts that were posted because of the simple fact that complete game mechanics as well as the single class mechanics will be / have been examined and changed. All in all it seems to me that the changes are reasonable and could achieve the goal of balancing, but there are some things that let me feel alarmed.
I will comment on my "points of interest" now.
- Fixed debuff duration.
I think this is great. Players like reliable tools and debuffs with a fixed duration can push gameplay to a more strategic type where debuffs are considered a part of the strategy.
- Changes to the Ranged Physical Damage Formula According to Distance
This is one of the alarming points. Not because of the change per se. Fixed damage potential regardless of actual range can work out well - but this is a very large scale change. As damage dealt depends on range and skills the players have strategies how to play their archers - but changing one mechanic (range-damage-relation) AND archers skills could have dramatic consequences (as well as changing the basic mechanic and not touching the skills). I dont want to prophesize the sudden leaving of an awful lot of archers here, but i have to admit that i feel uneasy about the proposition that mechanics of this scale will be changed. I can just say i guess this will call for a really big heap of testing work.
- Modifications Per Class
While modifications per class are simply necessary for balancing i find it nearly impossible to evaluate them here. This is for the simple fact that balance will only be achieved (if at all) when ALL changes are applied simultaneously. And i can only guess how this works out when looking at this whole list. But there are two points where again my inner alarm bells went off on a rampage, so i will comment on those specifically.
1) Sigel Knight
Superior Aggression and Superior Aggression Aura skills have decreased success rates
This sends shivers down my spine just from reading it. Really - a tank needs reliable tools to fulfill his duty. Its no fun trying desperately to hold aggro while watching the team die. Mostly, anyways :p
I can perfectly understand that this might solve some issues in PvP but concerning PvE gameplay this really makes me uneasy. And if for some reason or another the tanks lose their ability to reliably keep the monsters at bay this would affect the gameplay of every class out there.
So i guess test these changes into oblivion and back and if even the slightest doubt remains, dont apply them.
2) Aeore Healer
The changes themselves seem to imply that healers should veer away from only wearing armor weighting about twice the amount of the healer him/herself. This is fine in my book, but some people seem to think that healers will die a lot faster if they do so. And even that this is a problem. Well, in PvE the healer should not be the target at all because of the tank who is trudging in front of him/her. (Except when the tank fails on landing even a single aggression spell, but that couldnt happen right ?) And in PvP the healer will of course be in trouble - even if he is wearing heavy armor. So i think its just the fact that healers dont like to die within very short amounts of time that makes them wear heavy armor. Bad healers.
Well - coudnt those two problems be solved in one go ? Let healers wear Robes/Party dresses or whatever and give the tank the possibility to save "his/her" healer ? If aggression spells are a problem in PvP - make them PvE only - but give the Knight something like a buff to cast on allies, call it "divine shielding" or something equally nice and have the knight take 75% of the damage the protected target receives. Just be careful that focus-fire doenst make it possible to kill healer and knight in one go within half a second :p
Ok, as you can see i am talking out of the blue here. But as i see it in a game like lineage it is not only impossible, but also unnecessary to achieve true 1v1 balancing. But giving each class the tools to fulfill its role reliably is a (imho) needed step to create an environment that gives balance if comparing groups of characters. And PvE needs different viewpoints as PvP so it becomes extra complicated. In my book the healer can be a one-hit-kill any day AS LONG AS the Knight can protect him reliably. This is the kind of balance i wish for.
Ok, thats long enough i guess. All in all im in good hopes about these changes and feel pretty sure they wont make it worse in the least.
Except for those aggression changes... scratch that.. throw it away...now.
Well as it stands today which hopefully will remain as it is until Wednesday, there is no absolute majority on the proposed changes and the major uproar are the healers which ofc are being nerfed for good.
I hope that NC re-considers their proposals on the healer class. It is true that on higher lvl's healers still take a huge amount of damage despite wearing heavy set, so with these propsed changes its obviously going to be easier for healer to die.
For those players consideriing the pve aspect only of healers or Olympiad 1 vs 1, this thread is not aimed for them and their intervention will only jeapordise the situation for the rest.
Healer weak? I see not using heavy armor or not, it does not matter, just know that they are very strong healer, not as old healer tinhar skill to cause damage, or is he just healed and ready. Today kills healer and with the advantage of having his healing, various healing skills, can use the tree, can invoke a summon to fight by your side, you can heal all the time and so on. Even if you use armor robe, he will remain strong, because a player's ally here is a human healer, and he defeated Sigel higher lvl 2 it easily by your skill damage, healers damage and critical chance of magic is high . That is, if we analyze the healer itself, it only archers in pvp 1vs1 and feohs wizard has a chance of defeating him, only defeat and Feoh wizard is able to lift the healer, but the healer will burn all the Feoh wizard and mana gone. Ie healer is a very strong class, curable, has the tree can burn the enemy's mana and mana without anyone kill anyone.
Another class is the apelona Tyrr Warrior, a class that has power defense next to a tanker and has the advantage atack power greater skills with more power to damage and stun even has a more efficient, since the stun of the tanker when tanker catches and starts hitting the stun some, the Warrior's Tyrr not, it's the stun and the stun is the time it says there in skill. The Warrior has Tyrr healing, skill loads fast, unlike the skills of Sigel's defenses that take 15 minutes, neither Knight Frenzy does not increase so much so also lasts 10 minutes. Feoh Wizard apelona another class and still win UP. For me balanced classes are those that can have its role in mass pvp, pvp solo 1vs1 and so forth and not just thinking of Olympics. Like I said, have to balance class and race, an elf Feoh Wizard is lower than Feoh Dark Elf and Human. Sigel is less than the White Elf Sigel Sigel Dark Elf and Human. That is, the races are not classes and disadvantages.
Mm ok first of all , the healer who already post here are not good.
Feoh kill u in 4 seconds? LOL jewels? the only class just CANT KILL HEALER IS FEOH. (or u are very bad).
Im healer too since c4, when i came here to play in retail i thought player was more competitive and smart.
U are trying to play healer like the wyn alredy does (f1 f2 f3).
U have a lot skills to avoid damage: Giants favor, celestial x 2 (i saw a lot healer dont know how to use, first damage they got go celestial -.- self suicide Gz and u kill the party also), crystal regeneration,dispel.
U can also get double SA weapon (about the QQ for mp i think u just dont want recharge the party one by one, is alot "rebirh mode healer around") :S i noticed now when i have my dual class feoh.
Use talismans decrease critical atack %, power, long range, increase pdef, hp.Get some augments.
I read all this post , some opinions are very bad u dont even know how healer skills work: Want increase Cp using light? U already noticed while more Hp the party have more u skill will heal?.
I think frantic heal should be like the old enlightment, i never get killed when i use on Freya/H5 (and i usually have 2 partys over me, and i didnt have batle heal or balance)
About ressurection skill really need decrease the cooldown.
Maybe some bonus pvp for armor like S80, decrease critical damage received.
Plz dont be lazy use u brain!!! i think is fun have 1-2 party over u and be able to keep u alive in robe armor.
Ps: If u nerf heavy armor remember light elf will still have good casting even with nerf xd.fix that well plz, i have 2 aeore 90+ both with dual class and good wear/weapon SA double, dyes, etc.
if u dont pay atention dark elf will be totally useless.
Ps2: I didnt understand well (better saynot enought info) about cardinal will heal cp, other healer not heal cp? then u should put 1more slot in the party.
1)
1. After reading your descriptions of each class, one thing was evident; you talked about archers being "formidable in pvp ", "summoners the post powerful in pve". You need to bring balance on all aspects, pve and pvp.
2) Renovating Skill Usefulness and Battle Formula
1. Agree seems a nice ideia.
2) Evasion changes
1. Agree seems a nice ideia.
3) Changes to the Ranged Physical Damage Formula According to Distance
1. Agree.
3. Modifications Per Class
1) Sigel Knight
1. Agree with the king of beats colldown decrease, this agression nerf is just on pvp or pve? if ppl use tokens and assist well a tank cant spam aura hate have 3sec coldown after debuff off, purge can remove it right? also its small range so unless u are meele u only get it if you are dumb =).
2.In my opinion dont change agression or chain, the rest i agree.
3.the glory days talk something about a toogle/buff that increase pve dmg by 50% to tanks and healers will you implement that?
2) Tyrr Warrior
1. eliminate skill colldown? lol no comments... no sense
2. tyrs dont go insane dmg but also they dont go down easy... they can be quite tanky... so no sense boosting dmg that much unless you make them less tank.
3) Othell Rogue
1. blow-type dmg formula changed in what? pls cannot comment unless i know what changes =).
4) Yul Archer
1. Already " formidable in pvp"! Not sure why they should have any increases in p attack and lower cool downs, I do not know how those changes would bring balance as you said they are " formidable ".
2. maybe nerf impact shot debuff time i mean is the stun that have more time in game... landrate isnt that good but when it does its a killer debuff, so if u boost landrate makes sense to nerf debuff duration.
5) Feoh Wizard
1. Increase all skill attack power by 10%/Increase debuff duration
They already do a lot of dmg in pve/pvp yes they die easy but they do ******* great dmg... dont see how overpower more their dmg will balance at all anything... i mean not even tanks since good are any good vs mage dmg since they lost deflect magic and more skills vs mages... same lvl mages and tanks do over 8k dmg on them. at least the top 2 changes i wrote i really disagree.
6) Iss Enchanter
1. why increase duration of a spammable skill??? where is the sense in that? nerf reuse and increase duration or stay like it is.
the boost 10% on pve i agree.
7) Wynn Summoner
1. nothing to say.
8) Aeore Healer
1. i agree to force healers to use robe but if you boost all classes dmg output and u make healers use robe that will make healers quite easy targets... boost maybe something on robe using or something that makes then in robe less squishy.
2. also they do very good dmg on 1v1... i mean look at hero healer he kills ppl 1v1 insanely... i mean rapping tanks faster then dd's... for me thats more problematic that they using heavy and dont die that easy.
Frantic Healing skill modified
Skill effect applies when equipped with light armor or robe
Progressive Heal and Balance Heal have increased MP consumption
What are they trying to do by increasing consumption of MP?
There is already enough with the consumer that currently have these skills.
The working heal is to keep the party alive, if consumption increases MP everything goes to hell.:eek:
Also why the heal is the only one who can not use force against other debuff playes that are not flag?
It is a terrible injustice. :mad:
The Feoh wyzard can, Wyn sumoner can, etc ... heal but can not.
i liked almost all proposed changes, but i disagree with the ones for feoh...
i mean the feoh is already an exelent nuker, is true he have some problmems on closed places, but on open field they can kill 3-4 chars before any 1 notice them, and then can run away with that stupid blink skill that make them almost impossible to catch em..
I would add a penalty to repeated use of that skill
and in my opinion the problem of the feoh isn't a lack of power rather than a better survivability in pvp..
in pve maybe he could get some boost without problems.
other thing i think shoud be changed, is the actual effect of the reflective damage, reflect damage is insane op at this moment, i think it should be neffed as the vampiric rage..
and maybe bringing back the posibility of block magic skills for the tanks i say this last thing thinking about healers coz they do much damage and have insane range of skills with insane knockbacks...
there are two distinct differences, one is the pvp game or hunting zone and another is the type of game for Olympics. where I've noticed more difficulty, is the game for Olympics and more to fix the game in pvp or hunting zone, you have to fix the system of Olympics, for classes compete as equals. By this I mean to say no because I play with a certain class and lost, which is quite common now. I hope that changes are also designed for this system.
And whoever said the magician sticks too, hits much full buffs, but not oly, where with few buffs, should do wonders
For the moment the Feohs are ok for pvp, just need a bit of boost for single target pve, cos they're completely useless at RBs (1 nuker lowers the whole party's dps by ~30%; tested at Istina mutiple times).
Tanks need A LOT of nerfing and i mean A LOT... It's not normal my archer almost lvl 96 with + 10 STR dyes, +10 passive bow, armor and crit masteries with 300 element on the weapon and epics to die from the reflect of a below lvl 90 tank. Just doesn't make sense ?! Remove the VR and reflect from range attacks, the way it used to be.
Tyrrs need increased reuse time of their jumping skills otherwise are almost perfect.
Healers need to be forced to use robe and decreased range of their mass dmg skills.
Summoners only have to be forced to use light or robe armors otherwise are quite balanced atm.
Iss enchanters - no idea there... They always hide themselves into pigs or rock so don't really know how hard they hit but i guess with that Battle rhaps and Dual blunts they hit pritty hard.
Daggers need some more evasion, and with the dmg they're ok especially with the clone skill.
Archers are quite a big DD as long as they don't get against a heavy armor of any type, then all the dmg is gone. Yesterday fully buffed i tried to kill self-buffed tank 7 lvls below me. Untill he died my whole CP was gone (22k) along with 4k HP and this is only from the reflect (yes i have the ceremony belt for reflect dmg decrease and the talisman, but it doesn't help).
Maybe i have bad experience with tanks but i play one and its quite crazy for me to think about problems with aggro and hate - when i try to take a good place with mobs i use hate aura (i think cca 10s reuse - im not so sure, and it agrro place cca 20x20) and tyrr with his agro (before WL and i think on some 9x lvl they have other one) can agro it every 3-4s and place cca 35x35.
so main problems, for me is range of agro if dont reuse and success rate
Hello i m an Kamael archer lvl 90 at Chronus server.I would like to ask can you
check the Traps skills from Kamael archers,for me it seems the Frost Trap
and Gravity work good on mobs(monsters).But when i use them against a player
on pvp they never works.Before i have reached lvl 85 i was using alot the traps
and i could hold and stun my enemies alot more and my kamael archer(Trickster) was very nice for pvp and pve(the traps was working almost everytime on everyone).
I will be very happy if you check that and answer me.Also i would like to add
if you could improve the summoning Eagle (Summon Thunder Hulk).I see that
no one use the eagle.I'm using him to purify myself from debuffs, and also
the eagle is not able to debuff me everytime. It will be nice if you could add some more skills to the eagle or upgrade his old skills,And it will be great
if you make some enchantment for the Eagle(like enchant eagle that add p.def or p.atack and other enchant's that makes him look in other colours-like golden,Silver,black,pink,lightening) i think it will be very cool.
Also i would like to suggest some idea for the future of the game.
I was thinking that you can put some new raid boss items , that would be very rare. The raid bosses drop to less cool items( Only jewells as rings,earrings and necklace).It will be very interesting if there are some new raid boss Weapons,armors,sets that are very rare.Like that people would love to make alot of raids.And my last suggestion its if you could make some Stone
or Rune with speciall skill like + 3 strenght,100 hp,atack power ,evasion,intelligence,p.def, that could be put on armor and accessories.
And i wanna say this balance you wanna make it will be very nice :) good job. And i would like to ask if u could post some topic with that , what
Augument skills you can get from the augumentions :).
Best regards: Alexander Simeonov
Sigel Knight
1)"Chain Strike and Chain Hydra skills have increased success rates". This gives even bigger advantage in pvp while sigel knights are already overpowered for pvp and doesn't give much for raid boss hunting.
2)"Superior Aggression and Superior Aggression Aura skills have decreased success rates". This doesn't give much for pvp but makes harder raid boss hunting.
3) shouldn.t decrease reuse time more than it is now because will be able spam damage skills even faster when it is pretty fast skill spam now.
Yul Archer
"he Yul Archer is formidable in PvP right now; after Awakening, it has become the jack of all trades, ranging from various evasion and invincibility skills to powerful damage-dealing".
1)What invincibility skills does archers have? The only one invincibility skill could archer have is dark elf racial skill but it is not archer class skill. Or at least i don't know any archer invincibility skill that are available now.
2)Mass Bulleye skill is no much use in pvp or pve, but would be good with increased success rate for exping in party. But... sadly it is being get from lv99. What for i would use it being lv99 sin more exo no needed. epic fail. Make it to be able to use from at least lv87 or so.
3. copy that makes agro (decoy skill) is 1 hit copy. Make it more durable or it is not useful.
1- Knights should have a better MDEF. Before GOD, Knights were stronger against magic. If you have a TANKER that hits lower than other classes, you must have the best defense against everything. But a Tyr with Feral Ogre Cry Skill activated has more MDEF than a Sigel Knight with Resistance Aura activated, considering that both of them have same equipment. There is no sense on it.
2- The Lion lowers PDEF when is summoned and this is ridiculous. A Tanker needs as much PDEF as possible. Lion nowadays is useless. NCSoft should remove the penalty of Lions and make it like the Panter of Dark Avenger. You have a summon that makes you weaker instead of helping you, it makes no sense for me.
I personally think that the question of balancing the classes should be delayed until the results of the class diversification project has been physically seen and tested. Right now, all these comments are about the current class balance which will surely shift when the class diversification takes effect. Thus this poll is meaningless and any reponse towards future class balance is just taking shots in the dark and are invalid and cannot be validated due to the inability to validate the reasonings of the responses.
All we have to work with a few few known variables and a lot of unknown variables as well as the unkown variables that weren't even mentioned in this write-up. Also considering that most players here who are complaining about imbalance are both under-leveled and under-equiped (and some under-skilled) only helps in contributing to the potential backfire these class changes could have.
Surely I could post about my own opinion of the current imbalances between the classes but as I stated before, it is invalid due to me fighting people of vastly different equipment and skill levels, me fighting people who use and don't use 3rd party programs, me fighting people who spam these 3,000 & 5,000 HP/CP pots (Who's bright idea was this?), along with factors suck as debuffs landing or not and etc.
What I will mention are the things that aren't too variable and needs to be addressed when changing the classes.
1. Sigel Knight
o The aggression skills success rates need only a reduction of land rate in pvp not in pve. Faltering the Sigel Knight's ability in group PvE is not a wise decision lest you have a repeat of Tanks marginalization to soloing.
2. Tyrr Warrior
o Tyrr Warriors need a better distinction between weapon choice. There should be no reason that certain weapons are never chosen due to inferiority. Part of the reason is due to SA choice. In a now purely skill base game, SA's such as guidance and the like shouldn't even exist on R grade weapons. Making SAs such as bleeds and stuns that proc on damage and skills on Polearms, skill cooldown reduction on fists, damage and skill damage increase on dual swords, stuns and knockback SAs on dual blunts for example.
3. Othell Rouge
o Rouges are one of the classes that needs a better defining role in pve and pvp. As of now they kind of suck at both compared to other DDs because A: most XP places are AOE oriented and rouges are terrible at that and B: in pvp rouges are melee archers with a little more survivability and chances to fail at attacking.
o Rouges should have AOE skills that fits into their defined role of stealth assassin. An AOE dust cloud debuff that greatly reduces accuracy and randomly cancels target. The accuracy bit being great for pve survivability and the target cancel being great for pvp.
o Rouges should have AOE skills that allow them to function better in an AOE exp group while still fitting into their defined role of stealth assassin. A hand thrown bomb that explodes with a flash dealing damage and cancelling target. An extra AOE that allows for more damage in AOE exp as well as being able to cause mass confusion along with the dust cloud in mass pvp.
4. Yul Archer
o The Yul archer is, in my opinion, one of the strongest, if not the strongest, damage dealing classes in the game. The power of their skills even cause notable damage towards Sigel Knights, their direct counter. That along being fast and having evasive abilities and having the highest range in the game.
o That being said the direction that Yul Archers are being taken in is, in my opinion, bad. Yul Archers don't need an increase in debuff land rates that are mainly used for pvp and a decrease in debuff land rates that are mainly used in pve. Instead a boost to lure shot and diversion land rates will be more appropriate.
o Further more, Yul Archers should be taken forward in a more group friendly aspect. The reintroduction of counter dash and counter MP regen would be a great party addition while addressing the speed issue that most classes have with archers and wizards without giving those classes a direct boost in run speed.
5. Feoh Wizard
o This class is quite touchy in terms of balance. Being so equipment dependant they are either too weak or too strong and lack a middle ground.
o Therefore, in my opinion, instead of an increase in damage, the focus should be more on crowd control skills. As it stands so far, skills such as death fear and the like are completely useless in both pve and pvp due to their abysmal landing rate. Therefore a major increase in landing rate is necessary for these debuffs.
o The Feoh wizard as an out of place property, that being its remarkable speed on what is supposed to be a slow glass cannon. Therefore to hinder this huge advantage over other classes while retaining its survivability, I suggest a riddance of air rider and an increase of the cooldown of Magical Charge and Magical Evasion. Instead doubling the power of death siphon but making it an AOE ability with half the cast time (5 seconds). This making the feoh wizard more powerful in its AOE damaging role without overpowering it in 1v1 situations.
6. Iss Enchanter
o The Iss Enchanter is a very supportive character that most aids in damage dealing, damage reduction, and healing as well as its primary role of buffing.
o To aid in its role of buffing but increasing strategical use of this character, I suggest the introduction of the Inspector class-like skills such as appetite for destruction but for temporarily increasing critical rate, skill power, and critical damage; Magic Impulse but for increasing debuff land rate, magic critical rate and decreasing magic skill cooldown, and Protection Instinct but for increasing p.def, m.def, and debuff resistance. Neither of the skills being able to stack with each other.
7. Wynn Summoner
o As said the Wynn Summoner is quite a powerful class in pve, but it can be outdone both in solo and group pve. Therefore this is not a realiable perk, but it depends on the stats and abilities of the new servitors.
o In pvp the Wynn Summoner is an awkward class. It's main defining role is supposed to be crowd control but it is not efficient in that due to its lack of mass crowd control skills and the long cooldowns of its crowd control skills being easily countered by short reuse cleanses. Its damage dealing role in pvp is easily outshined by archers, wizards and rouges. Its left as a class with decent single target control ability, moderate pvp damage, and moderate defense that is ineffective against burst damage.
o In order to boost the effectiveness of the wynn summoners crowd control role without giving it complete lockdown ability in 1v1 pvp and to improve its damage effectiveness in group pvp is the reintroduction of mass cubics with, key word, "effective" debuffing properties. A cubic with skills to decrease p.def, m.def, and decrease resistance against debuffs. This allowing other classes to better utilize their debuffs in conjuction with the wynn summoner as well as increasing their damage potential with the wynn summoner considering the wynn summoner is currently the only class without an ability to allow other classes to increase their damage output such as bullseye, devil's curse, armor destruction, mark of lumi, etc.
8. Aeore Healers
o Healers are by far a powerful class in olympiad and 1v1 situations. They are also the most powerful class in mass pvp up untill level 98 and 99 where classes such as the feoh wizard and yul archer begin destroying them in a few hits even while wearing heavy armor.
o In my opinion a better alternative to the heavy armor dilemma without having healers being completely useless in robe armor with having max casting speed without frantic healing is to increase the MP consumption of healing skills and to significantly increase healing effects while wearing robe armor and to moderately increase healing effects while wearing light armor.
General changes:
· Evasion should be reworked to allow a degree physical skill evasion making DEX a more prominent stat and allowing evasion builds to be a more prominent build among classes with light armor mastery with Othell rouges having the highest benefit.
· Accuracy should be reworked to allow a degree of physical skill accuracy making DEX a more prominent stat and allowing SAs such as guidance become a possible SA choice among physical weapon wielders.
· Casting speed should be reworked to have a slight degree of magical skill cooldown to make WIT a more prominent stat among casters and to deter mage classes from heavy armor use. As such, light armor mastery should have an increase to casting speed and robe armor mastery should have a skill cooldown decrease.
well, if you wanna force healers to wear robe you should first find out why they use heavy.
Not talking of pve, but on pvp, with robe at 95 im pretty 1/2 shots (considering ofc all the dds assisting on healer(s)), this made healers go in robe and knight (such a waste of mp).
With heavy and wizard you get more change to stay up in pvp, yeah is true, we all know that back before GOD all healers were in robe, but do you remember your healers get 1 shot? no. Back in the days i was using robe set (lvl 4 element and +3 cos im really unlucky with enchant) but pvp was pretty good, now with robe is like a suicide.
For example, i do ceremony of chaos, in this case i wear heavy and i use knight armor, cos most of time 90% of ppl are afk, and i'll have only those 5 chars on my back so mana wont be a really big issue. in knight and with heavy (+ turtle buff) i've 5k p.def, i still get 3/4k dmg from tyrr, something like 7k from yul etc etc.
so, if i get 4k from tyrr, in hvy with knight, what i'll get in robe?
instead of give more mp consumation, check dmg of dds, or give more p.def on robe set.
days ago i tried ceremony with robe (cos i met for 3 times in a row a feoh so i thinked to be smart going on robe, bad move), i got 3 shot from a tyrr in twilight.
healers wouldnt be using heavy if pdef with robe wasnt so low.
Aeore Healer:
Im agree that aeore should get more mp consumption because they are so overpowered :x Lots of mp, they got x2 full mp (Rebirth skill) Plus they have Celestial skill invinsible for 10-15 secs +-, and they have emblemlol I think they are overpowered :confused:
Returning to review, today I'm going to hit pvp against a Tyrr Warrior 2 lvls lower than me, I'm Sigel and what I found is that using Heavy Tyrr Warrior gets the same P. Defense a Tanker, I find it absurd and has skills with the power to damage two times higher than that of tankers. Ie Tyrr Warrior are appealing too and there are people still complaining? See all the skills of the defense Tankers lasts 15 minutes, for example Protection of Faith and Final Ultimate Defense, Knight Frenzy lasts 10 minutes, see how the skills of protection lasts Sigels absurd, will decrease the effect aggression in pvp and pve, and to make matters worse, the stun Sigel's fault, as I say again, when the stun grip and began to beat, ie, after using the UD Sigel are at a disadvantage due to stun disappear when we started hitting the enemy.
And to make matters worse, the Tyrr Warrior has a skill that recovers all HP and it lasts 8 minutes, which is a skill that should also have delayed 15 minutes, as it is a healing skill, is the only class that fighter curable and low duration, in my opinion has to decrease P. Defense Tyrr Warrior, since his HP is very high, especially with fighters that P. Atack with low skills and low power much like Sigel ultimately lead disadvantage, since Tyrr Warrior is the only class fighter who takes high damage Sigels Knight, think about it too much. For me the whole class Tyrr Warrior should use light armor and heavy armor not only the Tyrr Warrior using a spear, and should review the delay of some of Tyrr Warrior skills, especially stun them, which rarely fails while the other fails Sigel, and when caught, disappears when Sigel starts beating.
For me GoD was a huge success in terms of balance between classes. I never enjoyed my DC as much as I enjoy my ISS now. That said, balance issues still exist and need to be addressed. The Developers’ proposal presented to us is well thought and coherent, so I will vote it as adequate. I have to make a few comments though on some areas I would like to see changed:
-Debuff landing rates seem to have very big differences between them. Some land almost 100%, others have a normal behavior (sometimes land, sometimes don’t) and others almost never land. These differences need to be smoothened out and all debuffs need to be more consistent.
- Right now everyone relies in resisting debuffs on CoC/epic jewels and sub skills. I would like to see that MEN and CON become more important in resisting debuffs, in order to allow various dye builds (apart from tanks getting +CON almost nobody else goes for it). Ideally, fighters would resist physical debuffs more than mages and vice versa for magical debuffs. Currently this is not the case (jewel effects greatly outweigh the stat effects).
-Ranged DD (Feoh, Yul) have increased damage output in exchange for lower defense. To further compensate this, they have some skills that help them to keep their distance from melee opponents (relocate, slow target, knockback, etc) or avoid being targeted (target cancel, become untargetable). I am afraid this is overcompensated and needs to be toned down by either lowering landing rates or increasing reuse times of these skills.
-I would like to see smart PvP, involving skills and strategy. So far it is brute force mostly. I would like to see less damage output with debuffs playing a bigger role in PvP. Healer ability to remove them very fast doesn’t allow that. It seems pointless to have a debuff on 2 minutes reuse timer when single target purge has a few seconds reuse and party purge is on 1 minute reuse (add the fact that almost all PvP groups have 2 healers and you get the picture). If purge becomes chance based or it has an increased reuse time, it may make PvP more interesting.
From the specific proposals for classes, I would like to comment on ISS (which is my main):
-I don’t find any reason why there is a need to increase ISS poem buffs’ MP consumption, especially when compared to a healer’s. In any case, if the increase is in the range of up to 10%, it will not be a problem.
-Increasing debuff timer and normal damage to monsters is a neutral change for me. It doesn’t do any good or harm. Normal hits damage increase will not be something notable and ISS will still use debuff skills for the damage they do (especially in PvP), not for the debuff effect alone. Pointless change in my opinion.
-Chaos Symphony change is good regarding the reuse timer. MP increase is acceptable if it is not excessive. This skill has already the biggest MP consumption among fighter characters skills.
-Crazy Nocturne change is not so good. 10 seconds critical reduction is too low. Duration needs to go to 30 seconds at least (considering the MP cost and reuse time)
Some problems with skills not mentioned in the proposed changes:
-Dark root seems to be bugged in PvP. Hardly lands even if the attacker has a significant level difference that defendant. Landing rate needs to be in par with other debuffs.
-Recovery melody is pretty much useless skill. With 5 seconds to cast, 120 MP cost and 1000 CP heal on one target there can’t be much debate about it. First of all cast time needs to be 1 second top. It’s a PvP skill, so 5 seconds is too long to dedicate time for it. Second, its effect (power) or MP cost needs to be modified. Either increase its effect to 2000 CP or decrease the cost to 40 MP.
-Ultimate Scourge is a skill that also has very little (probably no) reason to use. Even enchanted, blocking any kind of regeneration is useless. It could be modified to have an added effect of blocking or greatly reducing healing effects on targets or decrease both HP and MP over time.
-Since developers decided open that door and started comparisons:
Celestial party protection from Aeroe: 10 sec immunity during which players can use skills, attack, heal, etc. without breaking the effect, 36 MP cost, 2 minutes reuse
Celestial Aegis from ISS: 30 sec immunity during which you can’t even use SoE without breaking the effect, 423 MP cost, 30 minutes reuse.
The difference in duration is hardly matched by the rest of the effects. Either give ISS the exact same skill as Aeroe (same MP, reuse, effect, etc), or scale the effects according to MP consumption/reuse time (bad idea, it would probably be overpowered)
About my own experience and what I have seen this is my opinion about the class balance:
The damage output of Othel rogues and Yul archers at higher levels is too high and it is mainly because there are many factors that increase the critical damage (rare items such as boss jewels, legendary dyes and over-enchanted passive skills, and STR points increase) and the trigger buff from the drum melody, but the things that give critical damage reduction were lowered (before we had “chant of protection” and “counter critical” buffs, subclass skill and PvP robes, but after awakening the only thing that give critical damage reduction is the drum melody buff.
At lower levels is not a problem since a lvl 85 player doesn’t have the resources to afford such items, but lvl 95+ players can…… putting all those things together results in Othel and Yul dealing heavy amounts of damage to robe users (they can easily one shot a wizard or healer if all the things mentioned above are present)
Because of this Aeore healers chose to increase their survivability by wearing heavy armors, health weapons and shields , however…….Feoh wizards doesn’t have that option since doing so would lead into a great damage decrease making the class completely useless as it would go off its role of Damage dealer.
About the balance measures proposed for each class….these are my observations mainly considering mass PvP:
Sigel knight: Making the Superior hate aura and the Chain hydra not usable on PvP would reduce their impact on mass PvP because with said skills they can easily disable an entire party, and…if we consider healing skills that could be given upon class diversification (I am basing on assumptions since there is no official info about that) their impact on mass PvP is simply insane…however, if both AoE aggressions are unusable on PvP that will make them be selective on their targets because they would have to choose which target should be disabled with constant aggression and pulling.
Feoh wizard: The main problem with the Feoh wizard is that he doesn’t learn useful skills for PvP at higher lvls as other classes do, this results in the Feoh wizard being a strong class in PvP at lvl 85…but a weak class at lvl 95+ because the other classes learn very useful skills while the Feoh wizard learn skills that have a very low usability on PvP.
The Feoh wizard doesn’t have options to increase his survivability since choosing heavy armors as healers does results into a huge damage decrease. I think that a way for countering the insane damage output light armor users have at 95+ could be giving the Feoh wizard a trigger skill at lvl 97or 99 that could increase his pdef and critical damage resistance when receiving a heavy amount of damage.
About the proposed changes:
Devil curse and Mass devil curse doesn’t need a boost, these skills only need to land on PvP and raid bosses.
Unleash hell and mass unleash hell should had always been affected by soulshots and casting speed since those are the Feoh wizard end game skills, also, both skills damage need to be independent from the debuff (currently the skills doesn’t do any damage at all if the debuff doesn’t land and the debuff has something like 10% change on landing)
Iss enchanter: increasing the debuff duration on a skill that has a relatively low delay is pointless since the skill can be used very often and the debuff can be present as the skill is constantly spammed
Aeore healer: as I said at the beginning, Aeore healers wear heavy armors, health weapons and shields as their only way to counter the heavy armor damage Othel rogues and Yul archers have at 95+
I do agree that they should wear robes since they are magicians, but…..you cannot force them to wear robe without giving them survivability options, and also, seeing that most of the proposed changes means damage increase for the damage dealers….increasing the survivability for this class is more than needed; same as for the Feoh wizard, giving the Aeore healer a trigger skill at lvl 97or 99 that could increase his pdef and critical damage resistance when receiving a heavy amount of damage could be an interesting way for increasing their survivability.
Increasing the mana costs of their main healing skills doesn’t have any impact on PvP and only results in decreased PvE abilities.
Other things:
The balance of the classes also goes off from each class individual skills, Quick healing potions, Olympiad warrior potions and those Draco potions (there are still thousands of these even knowing that the event ended months ago) Create a huge imbalance because they can be better harnessed by heavy armor users since they have more pdef and the damage they take is lower…so they can become unbeatable in PvP if the continuously consume these potions: higher defense --->less damage taken--->better advantage taken from the pots since the damage taken is lower that the amount healed.
Iss Enchanter
- Increase Debuff duration to 20 sec.
= Crippling Attack, Shadow Blade, Mass Crippling Attack, Mass Shadow Blade
is ok but not necessary
- 10% increase in damage against monsters during a standard attack
why just against monsters ???
- Chaos Symphony skill modified
= Decrease cooldown to 30 sec. and increase MP consumption
= Soulshots apply and casting time is affected by attack speed
- Crazy Nocturne skill modified (i dont know how it work ... i am lvl 91)
= Changed effect to decrease received critical rate by 50%
- Increase Poem skill’s MP consumption increased
i belive iss need more P.Atk, because, at 91 lvl, with all buff (warr harm including) i have 4k+ p.atk and, for exmple, an yul at lvl 88 have 7k+, and if yul know to use his skills, he can kill me easily ...
and against monsters, iss dont do more damage.
ISS is actually a hybrid between Healer and Tank, but not strong as a Healer, and not resistant as a Tank.
in the future, if u increase MP consumptin:
- i,ll sell buff (lvl 2) with 500k. ... honest adena :D
- in party, i will stay away like healer and heal occasionally and give buff ... because, if someone can give nobles, he dont give nobles to all, and i must rebuff all death ppl
- and never ask for BR ... my answer will be ... "no MP"
for me, if increase P.Atk with 1000 :), is pretty ok ... (with out buff) ... and some + for Critical Rate
If i wan use heavy armor, now canot because not can use the panic heal, aumente the consume mp progresive, only bad item,... all races adquires vantages, but the healer only adquire 2 disvantages, good idea.
now the players healer have the hands tied again
If other players use heavy armor and have powerfullmp does not mean that we have all on the mp, Talis MP regeneration, 2 talis power Heal, sumoner skill mp, elixires MP, crystalization (the draco mp pots not is normaly) and i need 30 sec - 1 min of res because the rebirt every 10 minutes not is sufficient.
Is very funny to me the Old system lvl,.... big trains killing Big mobs, Trains 20 - 40 Mobs every time, and you have the big idea to up the mp consumition, pf..... bad idea -.-
If you up the consumition mp in all races, i need up the party to 8 members, and need up the power mp recharge, or better, give back My Clarity buff + 21 power magic hablidad that is very very better that buff iss enchanter, and the "mana gain", i repeat, one evas saint lvl 85 can recharge more fast and consume less mp that one Aoere Healer.
all Habilidad tyr warior UP, hablilidad Yul archers UP, hablidad Feoh wizard UP ..... and...... all hablilidad Othel Rogue UP ( the Othel, more ?)..... one othel normallly kill me in 3 skills and you up the habilidad but not increase my resistance...... u not increase my p. def, and now i canot heal good using heavy armor, very good.
Upgrade anti healers.... it is a * upgrade anti Healers.
Remember that in pvp party vs party are 6 players hitting the healer.....
in Masive pvp all wann kill the healers first,.
at least return me mass block wind walk, wind shacke, mana burn, trance >.<
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Conclution: If you only UP the Attack, the pvp time decrease,.... feoh wizard top vs feoh wizard top pvp during 0.5 second, not estrategy, no debuff, no ideas, not use brains,....
But, all classes get some sort of boost, but yet, they only thing the aeore healers get, is 2 lerfs. MUST use robe or light to use specific skills and then a higher MP consumption on progressive heal, which is the most used healing skill next to panic heal?
I wonder how many new players that is willing to level an aeore... usual training to level 85, then not going to high risk area such as SoA because of extremely fast MP consumption on progressive/balance/panic heals. Tree is useless in SoA, because of extreme AOE damage from mobs.
Why I say this? I have an aeore level 91, ~16.100 MP in TW robes and I burn a minimum of 10k MP if I am with a party consisting level 87 or lower.
GF? No, not really.
*****ing like a little girl? **** yea... Going for a reroll to another character, has just gotten alot more interesting..
BTW, the ISS Enchanters awaken from SUPPORT CHARACTERS... Nobody who knows their base class (prophet, SwS, BD, WC, OL and w/e) would ever agree that they are worthless and needs a powerboost, simply because they know that they are a SUPPORT class, and NOT tank OR HEALER... The ISS is now a combination of ALL ENCHANTER classes.
what NCsoft wil notice if these changes are going live
is that many ppl quit healer class and that DDs wil stay in town QQ for healer since nobody wants to play this underated class + nerfed to the bottom
with not yet 1 single improvement while most ''super DDs'' do get improvements
there is allrdy a lack of healer in this game / lack of tanks
i am 100% oke with removeing heavy but i am 100% agianst no improvements in robe sets of healers
however this patch wil not change much healer wil still use heavy at the cost of abit lower C.speed
I love summoners, but I would not play them now if I had a chance. Many parties may choose Tyrr instead Wynn now, we don't have any important buff for PT, just aura and mana share. Soloing Kartia with summoner is quite hard, u go to Zallaka and then done, it's more worth not to go to the solo kartia, because you will be sure not to loose any exp for just a att stone. And it's sad. But in another way I am happy with Wynn, I can still win PVP 1 vs 1, ofc in Mass pvp u are just meat.
Sigel: they are incredible hard. In PVP they hit a lot when their mission is to hold, not to hit skills of 5k, please do not make them immortals.
Healer: They win the PVP with magic skills hitting 4.5k per skill, healing and putting under the tree, another invincible profession. By the way, their function was modified. The healer was never for PVP.
Rogue: the stun always enter and the fake dead is a misused skill. The skill should be as before, when you could hit in PVP. There should be more delay in the skills. They are hitting by 9k per skill and each time they come more immortal in higher levels and you want to put them more critical power and debuff???
YUL: are you putting damage to the hit per distance?? Is that right??? WTF. When do all the pj have jump now??? WTF!! Do you want me to hit less when I do a face to face PVP??? OK how do I do with a dagger??? With a tyrr, or a summon and a tank with all the professions that have the possibility of being by your side in each moment almost without a delay in those skills… WTF!!!!
Formidable in PVP??? Wrong!! Es good in massive PVP but is not “formidable” in PVP (1vs1)
You want to remove chance to debuff like bow strike and others??? Remove them, they do not enter never and they are useless, give me space in the bar.
Wyn: they are amazing in PVP and in lvl. Please do not make more immortals.
Feoh: do I understand???? You want them to hit more??? WTF
Tyrr: OK, we should see. I think they are useful if you use them properly. Also they are very versatile.
Because the victory in pvp base on Debuff + Defense + (Reflect damage + Heal HP) = win
So i think the balance between classes should be 3 points:
1. Debuff:
- We should balance the land rate of debuffs because some 100% land, some 100% fail and this problem will be unfair and kill the pvp. In mass pvp, we need debuff to kill healer instead of BIG DAMAGE. To me the land rate of debuffs should be 30-40% with Stun, Paralyze, Silence, Lift up, knock down
- Debuff duration, we should lower the debuff duration from 1-3 sec instead of 5 sec or longer because if 5 sec lift up land it can kill anything and it will destroy the fun of pvp. (same as at C1 paralyze land = die)
- Reduce cool down of debuff skills as an exchange with lower land rate.
2. Reflect damage + Heal:
- The reflect damage system is currently unbalance. I prefer the reflect damage from normal hit only. Imagine Tyrr, Tank, Iss, Healer have 2 augment reflect damage active and passive ... they dont need to fight, they just need def stats high enough and spam Heal skills or spam HP pots to be the champion.
3. Defense
- Currently the def stats of Heavy Light and robe have problem. The robe and light is too too weak compare with the heavy. So everyone can't enjoy pvp if they use light or robe and die within 1-3 hits from DDs. We need to clarify the role of the robe light and heavy in game but not only focus on the def stats.
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About the classes:
"3) Othell Rogue
We focused on clarifying the class’ original intent by modifying the blow-type skills’ damage formula. We also increased success rates for various debuff skills to allow for a more dynamic control of targets’ status. But the Shadow Fake Death skill currently has an excessively low MP cost, making the battles boring, so we increased the MP consumption.
Shadow Fake Death skill increases in MP consumption
Debuff skills have higher success rates
Blow-type damage formula modified
Due to the buff that decreases received critical damage, we lowered the percentage of decrease in blow-type damage, so that it can yield higher damage than before in the same scenario."
I think you should give this class a role in game. Everyone knows that we failed to make this class from beginning, and the developers did not understand how to make this class enjoyable.
- PVE: Othell is really bad and almost exp party refuse to invite Othell in party. We need to improve AOE skills of this class and AOE debuff.
- PVP: Currently Othell is a good damage dealer, i think good enough, and in fact we don't need to boost more power for this class. The problems are:
* Attack Speed: The current reuse skills of Othell are similar to all other DD classes, the damage output is the same (stronger or lower a little bit compare with Feoh Yul Tyrr) but it has about 50% chance to fail the attack so why people will not choose a class 100% success skill ? So Othell need 3 sec cool down of blows instead of increasing the damage.
* Useless of debuffs: Most debuffs from Othell don't work and the reuse of debuffs are too long. And everyone understand in mass pvp, the debuff help the party to win, so people will choose a better debuffer (tyrr, wynn, feoh, yul, iss). The bleed debuff from stab is useless, please remove the effect or increase the power because it takes 1 slot from totall 3 debuff an Othell can do.
* Evasion: Everyone knows the evasion system here is totally failed when all classes now are skill spammers. Othell rouge can play only 30 sec UE and 30 sec Angel.
* HP: As a melee class, othell rogue need a boost of HP because in mass pvp they receive alot damage from enemies around. Compare with other melee classes Tank 2x HP of Othell, Tyrr 2x HP of Othell + revival, Iss .... unlimited HP with heal. Othell currently have similar HP as long range DDs (yul, feoh, wynn). Before GOD, Dagger class have bleed +SAP to drain HP it helps alot but now that skill is deleted because of awakened.
1. 1) So if I understand this correctly the imbalances would be nullified by making weaker skills stronger and not by nerfing the skills that currently are very strong. Fine with me as long as PvE doesn't get too easy : ) (So maybe the mobs should get a boost too : ))
2. 1) I think it's a good idea to give debuffs a fixed duration without random (reduces the luck factor and allows more strategic use of skills). And I have to agree that the current debuff categories are a bit confusing (what is a mental attack again? Sleep, fear, para, Summoner Marks?).
2) Would be nice to boost Evasion again a bit (remember Evasion tanks in C1? : ) Not that much :)), especially for Light Elves who are currently are at a disadvantage to other races because of their low STR. Is there a chance to evade skills in the current version of the game? If not, maybe it would be nice idea to introduce that since most hard damage comes from skills (PvE and PvP). Maybe give the summoner an evasion based summon that can run very fast a bit like unicorn merrow? ^^
3) I also like the idea of giving bows a fixed damage again, regardless of range. The system with damage based on range (albeit more "realistic") is unnecessarily complicated and gave a feeling of less smooth gameplay (all good classic arcade game had a very simple gameplay but were lots of fun to play, and I think simplicity is also what made part of the beauty of the gameplay in the first few chronicles of Lineage 2 [simple to play, yet very clever damage and hit/miss formulas]).
3. 6) Iss Enchanter: I like the doubled duration of Crippling Attack and Shadow Blade and their Mass version as long at the MP cost for the skills aren't doubled as well. This could make MP management in some instances a bit easier, but even with the new 10% bonus versus mobs on normal attacking, I think skill spamming will still produce more dps than just attacking normally (so soloing might actually get harder if the refresh time of those skills is doubled as well). But anyway, these changes don't change much for Iss : ) (Can't comment on Crazy Nocturne and Chaos Symphony as I haven't learned these skills yet : )
7) Wynn Summoner: The servitor heal boost is nice :)
Overall, I think the proposed changes won't make any drastic changes to the game. I still would like to see more class diversification based on pre-awakened class and I don't really know much about PvP, so I can't comment on what consequences the proposed changes will have there :)
(Sidenote: Is there a limit of 8 smilies per post?)
This poll is now closed! Thank you everyone for your participation and constructive input in this exciting poll and feedback session with the development team. :)
Results of the Poll:
As you can see from the vote counter, the players of NCsoft West voted that "The proposed balancing measures seem adequate" is first top choice, but a very close second choice is "The proposed balancing measures seem partially adequate."
The feedback is being forwarded to the NCsoft headquarters in Korea and the results will be included in the decision-making process along with other territories.
Review Process for Determining the 3 Winning Posts:
We are thoroughly impressed and proud of the many insightful and constructive posts players have made in this thread! :D As promised, 3 posts will be chosen as the most constructive and those players will be rewarded with a special prize. The winning posts will serve as paramount examples of the constructiveness that is encouraged on these forums.
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Posts are reviewed and judged only in terms of constructiveness and insightfulness, but not directly for the ideas, reasoning, or poll answer choice in them. There is no "correct" or "best" answer to the poll question.
As there are many posts this will take a little while; we expect to be able to announce the winners by the end of this week. The winners will be notified on the forums.
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This was the last developer feedback poll thread. Thank you for participating! :)
The winners of Most Constructive Posts have been determined! :D
The Lineage II staff of NCsoft West has spent a long time reviewing all the great posts made in this thread. We are again and again impressed at the level of detail and creativity of the many great ideas and reasoning shown in this thread, which reflects proudly upon devoted players. After much deliberation, three posts were chosen as the most constructive in that the author clearly stated their choice of the poll answers, their reasoning behind it, helpfully provided ideas or examples to back up their logic, and evidently put much thought behind their words (and stayed on-topic and followed forum rules ;).
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We'd like to extend a large thanks to all the players that contributed in this poll! Please follow the rest of the feedback poll series for more discussion about the future of Lineage II, and more opportunities to make constructive posts for prizes. :)